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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 เม.ย. 2024
- let me know if this one was still followable, i did a little less adding in of keywords
make your own: tiermaker.com/create/slice-an...
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live on twitch most night at 10:30pm EST @ / voyix64
join the discord and tell me to pick ludus: / discord - เกม
Another awesome thing with Bard's Else tactic is that when your team gets petrified or exerted, those sides are X's that can be used for Else which is incredible
I second this. I never clicked on basilisk scale in 2.0, but in 3.0 - I will blind pick it and hope I get a bard.
For Gambler, consider the following: just roll good
when you're right, you're right
@@Voyix When you're left side, you're left side
Part of the problem with Monk, is that currently very often you find yourself in a situation when multiple heroes are hit including the Monk himself, so redirecting damage from someone you really want to save just instakills Monk where just giving some shield would've helped much better. It's the same kind of problem that you mentioned with squire. And Monk used to be fine before 3.0. What exactly brought this shift is hard to pinpoint. Maybe the damage is more spread out now. Basically, you want incoming damage spread out, not concentrated.
I agree
Before 3.0 ,he feel pretty strong ,but hes pretty weak nowdays despite doesnt have any changes to him
I tend to disagree with this analysis of redirect.
It does outline one potential scenario that can happen. But, redirect is not for slow play and neither is monk.
Redirect will save the target from just about everything, including themselves. When a key person is randomly taking +15 and the best you can take off the board is 10 pips, redirect will not let you down. Monk can die in most situations and not put you at risk of losing the run. But when your damage dealers die is when the snowball to losing often happens. It serves as a potential death defy, but with no hp loss in these cases.
Thats not including redirecting statuses like weaken from damage dealers or letting monk soak pain. Or that repel and cleanse are pretty decent.
Im not arguing he is great, but he is good at blitzing.
@lucidinstinct1457 Yeah, I can see that being valuable for higher difficulties. Also for curses that makes enemies single-shot you often that Voyix tends to avoid. I've had a couple of ressurction-centered runs, where I just didn't care that much about characters surviving. I wonder if that's a viable playstyle in general.
that guy who complained about evoker and gambler in the same tier would be so proud.
it's hard to say why exactly things change, because i kinda just go based on how i feel about the characters after playing, but i think it's because mana is more prevalent now with cleric being buffed and vampire being 2x2mana now, so evoker can get away with rolling Xs more often
Statue is way better with generated items turned on, there's so many hats
37:30 i said it once and ill say it again, i think Enchanter is fine and this is just a problem of mentality. In comparison to old enchanter, the main change that happened to her was losing 3 hp (Which is huge, dont get me wrong). The rest, though? Doesnt really matter or upgrades. The 1 boost and 1 cleanse sides were kinda worthless, and 2 inflict SelfHeal SelfShield achieve more or less the same pain support. In exchange for it, Enchanter gets an actually worth something mana generating side out of the gate withouth needing to first hit items (While still having the potential for Gambler's Ace/Lucky popoffs), and inflict Engage which has a lot of nice interactions, like turning all your 2 damage sides into Small enemy killers (Somewhat similar to Knight Ninja interactions, except with worse ceilings in exchange for being more widely applicable) or turning all your 3s into Ghost killers. Flip doesnt need to matter if you dont want to, in the same way fucking Infuse doesnt really matter for Vampire
I decided to play with the team that has two red heroes (magical) in brutal mode for the first time... I didn't expect to do so well, but the saddest thing is that I wasn't good enough and lost in the final boss (inevitable). the curses that I chose and when an enemy dies, it gives 2 armor to everyone and the other and that all enemies have the first three resistant lives that to remove a pip of life requires two damage. It was already hell to get to where I got to in the brutal... I'm afraid of what "hell" really is
But maybe more defensive teams aren't so bad with certain curses
Gotta say, Guardian is the Militia killer in 3.0. I favor him over a lot of other greys on early floors simply because Militia pops up so often as an enemy.
Yeah, but Militia isn't a very threatening enemy in the first place tbh
I think spine wants to be an upgrade to tinder but fails miserably
Cause the way i see it the heal sides are really meant for him to use so you can keep him alive and continues dmging the attacker
But at that point of the game 1 dmg to attacker bairly does anything when you consider what tier 2 heroes average emg is
If is abbility was changed to mb 2-3 dmg the attacker takes
And one of the blank sides changed to redirect all dmg to me(so you can activly play around his quierk)
It would make him not good but playable
Maybe a strech but inflict pain side to the right, redirect to middle and healing to the two lef sides
Might give players a better idea fo what he is trying to be
The main turnoff for me was finding out that spikes don't work when Spine is shielded.
Even that niche isn't there
Really happy you're getting some use out of my template - I'll be honest, when I was putting it together I was hoping to see you do a tierlist at some point because I love your videos.
Mostly agree with all your placements - for me Gambler will always remain the worst character in the game. On average he's putting out an inconsistent 2 damage per turn. I was genuinely surprised that the update didn't change him at all.
Greys in general feel a lot better now but the game still feels so geared toward offense over defense that I almost feel obligated to put each Grey a tier lower than Yellows and Oranges even if the Grey is good in comparison to other Greys. I feel pretty much every Grey should have been given Tactics to make them an 'alternative' to Reds.
why does the gambler look like they have cat ears
they are quirky like that.
furry
catgirl
it's not exactly clear to me, but I've seen evidence from both japanese and french culture pointing to cats being lucky by nature. From Japan, the Maneki-neko is just a symbol of good fortune. In France, the matagot is a black cat that brings good luck when treated well; this is also vaguely referenced in the french MMO Dofus wherein cat people are a race of incessant gamblers with combat mechanics reflecting this, their name being a pun on "pile ou face" which is the French equivalent of heads or tails.
No idea why, but the threads are there!
These have been super helpful especially in hearing theory and strategy. Haven't played in a long ass time before 3.0 came out and it's been a very good refresher.
I generally agree with the list, though I do think Pilgrim deserves some more love. He does combo well with pain using heroes like you said, but even on his own he's a reliable stun, and letting a hero reroll your best die is awesome, especially if combined with growth. I throw whatever +health items i can find on him and he can easily stunlock bosses. Pocket phylactery is his best friend, putting him at 15 health for no downside. Not to mention the death prevention can come in clutch on a low or no healing party. I pick him just about whenever i see him.
the obvious use for sphere is cantrip value but i’ve gotten a lot of use playing it as a stunner first and a reroll generator second. if you have any more reroll faces on any hero or you duplicate the stun face (ice cube + watch that rotates four faces), it gets consistent enough that i’ve had high value enemies practically locked out of entire fights. give it vitality or any max-hp items and you can even lock bosses (hexia) down after a couple turns. i dont think it’ll shine in every run, but i would definitely lean towards it if i have at least one or two items to support the stun role when i see the class upgrade.
I agree monk is wack but i have had some cases where he was okay due to being able to swap his middle side without caring, sometimes i pick up a sweet middle swap item and then just cant use it bc every characters middle is like their whole shtick, and then here comes monk ready to carry it while he fucks off. Also I actually do value cleanse sometimes in the late mid-game if i dont have it on anyone else bc sometimes weaken or pain just turns a character into X's for a turn and youve sort of got 2 turns to hit the cleanse since you can use it before activating them.
You talking about ninja made me really want you to do a video or videos on making team comps because I would have never thought of force being really good for ninja in general.
the way I like evaluate blue and reds is how many free pips their spell gives me simply by existing. when I think about flip, if it generates 3 pips of value then enchanters dice is worth +1 pip (example would be sparky 1 into sparky 4). herbalist can earn you 1-2 per fight normally but can be +5 on slate and hydra fights which are normally scary.
with myco many keywords make his spell pip positive, cleave is +2 pips but fight dependent and stuff like mana gain and engage is +1 pip, he can also give you clean kill pips like herbalist. there is the decay downside of course but if I imagine mycos sides as all having +1 I think it justifies decaying 1 face per turn. though he is partner dependent, ranger and collector get more value than soldier and juggler.
meanwhile evoker gives you 1 pip per 3 mana. if you generate 9 mana in a fight then its +3, but that probably took ~4-5 turns so I don't think it makes up for the abhorrent sides unless you have good mana gen from your non reds.
the value difference between damage and defense pips is hard to quantify making the like of fiend weird, but I think it's usually a good way to approach evaluation.
also I love monk. hes so good at the floor 16 boss. has a 1 for chip, and redirecting weaken to your grey may aswell be cleanse. he also has actual cleanse for death.
I like playing with Fae personally, I mainly like the weaken 1 damage on her. She can prevent attacks from enemies with AOE damage, but mainly the good thing is she can prevent/limit summons. She does kind of need the right items to be actually good tho
she's ok but she just kinda dies in a lot of fights
Finally, sinew gets the respect he deserves. I remember typing a whole essay in the comments of the 2.0 tier list about how sinew was being snubbed, glad he’s taken his rightful place as pretty good
I had one really good run where armorer carried me with the item that makes 1 pip sides be cantrip and because of that I will defend armorer to the death regardless of how mediocre they may be.
I find armorer is good for opening up more potential items, if that's a thing you care about. Boosts to shields or the two right sides are generally cheaper in terms of item rank budget and you get to double dip on upgrades to smith / shield.
Alien is actually very nice when you get him early since you can devoid multiple enemies at once. I think he is often better than some goobers in "fine" tier like medic or soldier.
Its basically AoE Zap (except it works on 1 HP enemies too) but at early game some enemies literally spawn with 2 or 1 HP (illusions, eggs, archers) so you just can delete them turn 1 (no clue if it works on thorns or bypasses invunerability, most likely not. I need to test it one day...). With some support he can do same to snipers (they have 3 HP). By the time even they stop spawning you are on T3 most likely anyway...
The problem i guess is that he is "jack of all trades, master of none". He is weak yellow (one 3 dmg side. not good, not bad) + weak grey (5 shield is great, but its one dice lol. Note that this one-shots militia) + weak red (2 cleanse heal, but uh... you usually dont need it) + weak "mage" (due to tactic) packed into one. Makes him unreliable and weird but occasionaly strong, which is like most greens really...
I am a Spine enjoyer cuz I think the green units at their core are not meant to be taken seriously, and Spine and House Cat have put in more work for me than they should have so far. But I'm also bad so who know
I just want to say that a lot of my broken runs was with armorer because buffs to the two right sides are more common.
I got spellblade in a force party by rerolling the class of my orange. (I was forced to random and got gambler, so I rerolled)
I wonder if Alternates are any good overall
i find the disparity between ranger and whirl's placements a little hard to follow. there are so many AoE-centric fights now that i think they perform basically identically against a lot of content, and i think that whirl is totally serviceable in the content in which those two characters aren't indistinguishable. ranged is a very good keyword, i don't have a problem with calling ranger better, but is it really so much better that they're like 80% of the tier list apart?
Ranger hits more than 1 damage much more consistently is the main thing. And she's ranged. Whirl is basically the old ranger, and he's the color that should usually do most of the single target damage
When tier 3 hit the roulette should be on “Skill af” tier (place it at the top) and tainted should be “feeling lucky?” tier
The problem I have with evoker has been curses that spawn a monster on top, like so goblin.. where you don't want to be "wasting" mana to kill it and it having 5hp.
scrapper got extra nice in 3.0 with jewel loupe and sparks, guy goes crazy with them
About Fae -
I agree that he isn't that good, but I was surprised to hear how rarely you have a use for his boost.
I think maybe boost is more likely to find a home in the fun/troll/green comps, so maybe this is why you rarely pick him
Greens getting some(some) love.
collector with cocoon kicks ass tho
it just takes quite some time
Also big agree that boost is way worse, armorer has been my least favorite character in the game, I even like lazy more than armorer tbh. Evoker has been doing really well for me I think there are a lot of items that cheat his mana into being good. Fey sucks bc the boost sides suck but I think if you have something to give her weaken sides +1 or +2 she gets a lot stronger. Weaken 1 is garbage but there's a lot of times mid game where weaken 2 represents like 8 to 10 value, sometimes it represents 8 damage + getting rid of a debuff that was about to hit 3 characters, and on demand targeted "stop this summon now" is huge (made easier by having it on 2 sides).
Is there a world where voyix reviews generated characters?
What happened to Fey??? Huuh wow.
I know right, I love Fey but can't force myself to pick her in 3.0.
Something's off, and I can't say what.
It’s funny how brute is one of the most defensive yellows
Spike lover broken by your words
monk i think is terrible because repel 1 is one of the worst special sides in the entire game. The moment repel gets 2 it becomes a lot better, but you have to commit to a +1 pip to monk instead of someone better if you dare to dream of doing 2 damage and 2 shield in a turn.
Im super surprised Fey is down in gambler tier. I feel like she does some great things with a lot of items. She is awful with item poison because she has negative health and needs an item slot though.
whirl is bad because +1 are rare and armorer is bad because nobody wants +1
It might be a niche combo but still imo worth mentioning that they work together
I feel like Armorer is designed for when you want to improve your AOE's. Ranger's 1 damage cleave? Now it can consistently do 2 damage in a cleave thanks to the Armorer. Arguably the same with Fey's boost, but there are much better Reds out there.
oh we love gambling
I love spine, but I don't think it's good. I just love the weirdness of the greens xD
I am Spine's strongest soldier, in a world where half the t2 greens do literally no damage, he can do 2 if he rolls cantrip and you lock it, more if he's being targeted, and healing is actually important because poison is annoying if you don't have a red to combat it.
I agree that Alien is a rat bastard though.
In my humble opinion, you’re wrong about disciple. By a tier, I guess. She’s good. You neglected her spell for one. Heal/shield abilities are fantastic. If it was a 2 heal/shield for 1 mana, that itself would be strong. The fact that every x gets 2 h/s for only one mana has saved my bacon more than a few times. Also, being able to heal for two twice is strong too. You can heal for 4 if you need to, or spread it out. Plus, a copycat attacker can now hit twice. She’s not S tier, but she’s a solid A.
Inner Streanth Myco could be ok.
They just killed my fae
My Guy monk is the best character in the game, iron pendant or angel feather is busted
where tier 3
Is orange a girl? I cant tell
granite isn't cute anymore tho