So that dropout compensator is a *literal* video reverb circuit, because it's a delay line with (controlled) feedback. I can imagine some really cool gimmicks with one of those circuits and a video mixing desk in a VJ setup.
Once the phosphor us burned, it's burned peemanantky. No way to un-burn. Feeding a negative image would in theory burn the unburned areas so they are burned equally. If it took 5 years of 24/7 operation to get that bad it would take another 5 years of 24/7 operation to equalize the burn and by then there wouldn't be much if and emission left. From the gun and phosphor.
@@12voltvids What brand of tube this RCA set has? 5 years of 24/7 is quite something, and it still has a good picture apart from the burn. And I presume it was used as a regular TV for a few years before it got repurposed as a CCTV monitor. I just calculated, 5 years of 24/7 is 43.8k hours. Most tubes would be dead at that pont, especially a late Trinitron. I have a 25" FE1 chassis Trinitron with roughly this amount of use (it has an hours counter in the service menu), it has a horrible picture. Once I had a 29" flat Trinitron (KV-29FX20, FE1A chassis) with 39k hours in it, the G2 was cranked up, and you had to wait for almost 10 minutes after power on for the picture to appear on the screen. The picture was a barely visible blurry mess even in a dark room. I replaced the tube in it, and it was used for at least 5 more years without the chassis ever failing. Although I replaced the critical, high-stress electrolytics along with the tube. It had quite a few open circuit or very high ESR caps in it, but it hasn't prevented it from running.
@@mrnmrn1 have no idea. It has never been open. It was purchased at the end of CRT sets for 48.88 new. They had 2 left at the store. I should have bought both. It was purchased as camera monitor and was put in service as a that for the first 5 or 6 years. It wasn't running 24/7 for most of those years. Has an on/off timer built in so it would turn on at 8am and go off usually at 10pm because by that time of night nobody was around the kitchen so there was no point in running all night. The LCD that replaced it is having issues again. It has been pretty reliable however. You are right with trinitron. Those tubes never lasted that long.
Early 8mm used the U loading system similar to betamax and u-matic. They changed to the M loading system as with refinements it allowed for a smaller drum to be used resulting in even smaller mechanisms. Even Beta changed to smaller drum and M loading. Betamovie used a single head version and 360' wrap but used a modified signal time compressing recording scheme that made playback impossible. BETACAM the broadcast version adopted a multiple head compact drum and M loading scheme.
I'm glad I chose VHS Beta had better video quality in the beginning. But changed with new iterations and stupid mistakes like the wires attached to the tray. A failure waiting to happen. You have it playing very well. Making the head shiny is bad in this case.I had many issues with VCRs but that was because most manufacturers had assumed basic usage. When in reality was used 24/7 Due to record to watch later and constant usage every day. Consumer Reports had concluded that usage surpassed their estimated number 😳 at the time. Dad bought our first VCR in 1986 A Panasonic mono for 699.On sale🤣 I eventually sold it in 2001 Everything still worked. Metal VCRs what a concept before plastic rot components invaded .Good Video 😎
The word for what the polished drum causes is "stiction". In hydraulics industry we use Scotch-Brite to un-polish surfaces where seals slide for the same reason.
After watching one of your Beta videos I have made it a course of action to remove and replace the adhesive goo on the drum motor hall effect sensor. Hope you do that one before sending it out the door.
That capture looks to be sea world in Florida?? If it is, do you know what year roughly this was shot in? Only because I visited Florida and also SeaWorld and saw Shamu the whale. The footage just looks very familiar with the location setup and seating area. Sorry, not a technical question but just curious!
Vancouver aquarium. They no longer have any orca in captivity. The animal activists and tree huggers got the better of them. Someone also aparantly poisioned one of the beluga whales they had a few years ago. They no longer have them either.
The Linear Skate mechanism is just a marketing gimmick from their CD players. It is a) to make the design more challenging or b) to impress the user or c) all of the above. My JVC camcorder has a flip out viewfinder that started gracefully degrading because of the open/close cycles.
One thing I wanted to see is how the monoscope looks with the DOC turned on and off. You should be able to gain a bit of a better resolution with the DOC off but the dropouts would drive me nuts...
It shouldn't change the frequency response. In pcm mode it also disabled eq (sharpness) control so the signal is more flat. The edit switch also disabled EQ so as to not over emphesize the copy.
I do use LCD now. This one is old and was burned from years of abuse. I use it in the shop to monitor the cameras only when i am working. Its off the rest of the time and of course for testing old vcrs. I have a big 27" crt with built in VHS and DVD that some day I will get around to wall mounting for a test monitor. Just need to build a shelf as I don't think it will go on that mount.
Actually it is an artifact of signal processing. Why do you think every color tv has a 1h delay line on the lumamence signal. Same thing happens in the down conversion and then up conversion process. Betamax and 3/4" inverted the color between the even and off fields. That was done for crosstalk cancelation. The reason is because the color is recorded directly onto the tape whereas the lumanence is fm modulated. The lower frequency of the color signal leaks through the +6 -6 azimuth difference. Vhs stepped the chroma forward 90' each field. That way vhs needs 2 full frames to get back in phase with the original signal. What this means was vhs needed 2 frames for color sync and betamax / umatic only needed 1. Some would say just delay the luminance to get the chroma to line back up, but you can't because that would throw off timing signals and other data that can't be shifted like closed captions.
I agree completely that this loader design is crazy but there had to be at least one good reason for it. Can you think of any at all? I have one that needs restoration (when I'm a little more flush with funds...) and I've long puzzled over why Sony did this... 🤔 Always enjoy your videos. 👍
Maybe there was a portable Beta VCR model which used this compact mechanism, but the sales were lower than expected, and they ended up with a hundred pallets of this tape transport remained, so they designed a tabletop VCR around it 🙂 . Just a wild guess.
I have a broken electronic board on my onkyo integra ta-2058. It’s the record part and record does not work is this something you can repair and if so how do I send it to you
I thought it was a cool design. Until you took the top off and operated it. Flexing that mass of wires every time the drawer opens and closes. Surely there is a better way. Great video!
@@12voltvids yet 37 years later the system is still working fine and no signs of those cables failing any time soon, sorry guys but time has proven sony right on this one. :)
@@diegomax sorry to disappoint but those wires were breaking all the time. This machine is old but it has likely seen very little use over the years. The heads are typically good for only about 1000 hours. Remember this is beta. Once the rental market was done for beta mist if these machines were put in storage. Why do you think many still work?
@@12voltvids well i was just talking about the loading mechanism, im not gonna debate you on the other aspects because you are clearly on another league than me when it comes to electronics and repairs, i was just pointing that the loading mechanism is just working fine after 37 years, i never had one of these machines myself (i never had any betamax for that matter, format wasnt popular where i live) but i find it beautiful. Cheers!
@@diegomax they had the loading mechanism worked out by this point. The sl2000 2500 and 2700 was another story. Those retractable guide pins were a very common repair. They would snap off.
The older machines just keep on going until the heads/drum are beyond refurbishing. If they were made today, the mechanisms would be 90% plastic and would not lost all these years. The worst decks that i had to rebuild were the all plastic Philips ones, they would self destruct just for the hell of it. Have a great Easter Dave.
Philips never knew how to make anything that lasted. Both my parents and grandmother started with Philips color tv. They were always breaking down. After 5 years the tv guy refused to fix my grandmother's Philips k6 all tube color set.
@@12voltvids Philips were great innovators, but when it came to consumer electonics their designs were poor and used thin single core wiring that broke if you moved it, and very thin low quality "Muck Metal" for their chassis and mechanisms. What shocked me was that the early B&O TV's were based in Philips designs and thus suffered similar issues. Thankfully unlike Philips they learned from that mistake and the later sets were their own designs. Today Philips is just a brand name like so many others.
@@Barbarapape my grandmother had a k6 which had excellent color when it worked. It spent more time in the shop. They used circuit boards with tube sockets on the board. Pull a tube to test or replace and break a bunch of connections on other tube sockets. My parents had a modular 4. They used series filaments for the 4 tubes. 40kg6 and 42ec4 for the horizontal output and damper. Remember those tubes well as it would eat at least 2 sets of them a year. Under warranty the Philips guy changed the module at least twice. Out if warranty the local guy (who happened to live directly across the street from where i live now) was a regular visitor to change tubes.
@@12voltvids That was the way things were back then, pcb mounted valve holders were a recipe for a disaster. The worst i came across were in GEC sets that had double sided print pcb's with valve holders, you can imagine what happened when you tried to replace a valve (Tube)! This was in the late 60's and early 70's when i was a spotty nosed trainee, you knew your customers by their first names back then. Happy days when you knew what spares to take with you.
@@Barbarapape the k6 was double sided full valve (tube, vaccum bulb as Shango called em) set. By the time the set was 5 years old the Philips tech refused to work on it. I remember the last time he came out. I would have been perhaps 12 and said it was the last time he was fixing it, to never call again and they were going to blacklist the address so nobody would come out to fix it. So then the guy across the street started showing up regularly and taking the set away for a few days. He talked her into buying a zenith. Now your talking a good set. That thing lasted longer then granny did and i ended up with that set. A chroma color 2 with space command "clicker" because that is exactly what it did. Clicked.
I took a dim view of the harness being bent over and over again :-(. There must be a mix of fine wire and cotton fibers. I still think it's a shit design. That footage looks smashing, a good thing you captured it, all demolished. in a way its a shame, but it was a reminder of the dark time of the mob.
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.213 | กรีน อัษฎาพร | 3 ต.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3KrlLbCsadI/mqdefault.jpg)
That Sony training seminar would probably be another interesting thing to archive and upload to TH-cam
Oh, you mean this?
th-cam.com/video/QVWivcPgESE/w-d-xo.html
Been up for 7 years lol.
It is Easter. Happy Easter to you Dave. make sure you boil a good hard boiled egg and eat them for Easter. Respect to God!
What an informative video. Learned a bunch, will have to get my old Beta machine out and try some of these techniques on it.
So that dropout compensator is a *literal* video reverb circuit, because it's a delay line with (controlled) feedback. I can imagine some really cool gimmicks with one of those circuits and a video mixing desk in a VJ setup.
Better effect just pointing a camera at a monitor.
Theoretically you can feed the CRT with a negative image of the security cameras to counteract the screen burn 😅
Once the phosphor us burned, it's burned peemanantky. No way to un-burn.
Feeding a negative image would in theory burn the unburned areas so they are burned equally. If it took 5 years of 24/7 operation to get that bad it would take another 5 years of 24/7 operation to equalize the burn and by then there wouldn't be much if and emission left. From the gun and phosphor.
@@12voltvids What brand of tube this RCA set has? 5 years of 24/7 is quite something, and it still has a good picture apart from the burn. And I presume it was used as a regular TV for a few years before it got repurposed as a CCTV monitor. I just calculated, 5 years of 24/7 is 43.8k hours. Most tubes would be dead at that pont, especially a late Trinitron. I have a 25" FE1 chassis Trinitron with roughly this amount of use (it has an hours counter in the service menu), it has a horrible picture.
Once I had a 29" flat Trinitron (KV-29FX20, FE1A chassis) with 39k hours in it, the G2 was cranked up, and you had to wait for almost 10 minutes after power on for the picture to appear on the screen. The picture was a barely visible blurry mess even in a dark room. I replaced the tube in it, and it was used for at least 5 more years without the chassis ever failing. Although I replaced the critical, high-stress electrolytics along with the tube. It had quite a few open circuit or very high ESR caps in it, but it hasn't prevented it from running.
@@mrnmrn1 have no idea. It has never been open. It was purchased at the end of CRT sets for 48.88 new. They had 2 left at the store. I should have bought both. It was purchased as camera monitor and was put in service as a that for the first 5 or 6 years. It wasn't running 24/7 for most of those years. Has an on/off timer built in so it would turn on at 8am and go off usually at 10pm because by that time of night nobody was around the kitchen so there was no point in running all night. The LCD that replaced it is having issues again. It has been pretty reliable however. You are right with trinitron. Those tubes never lasted that long.
My Sony EV-DT1 Trinitron Video 8 TV recorder has a mech that wraps the tape around the drum like beta. Interesting design.
Early 8mm used the U loading system similar to betamax and u-matic. They changed to the M loading system as with refinements it allowed for a smaller drum to be used resulting in even smaller mechanisms. Even Beta changed to smaller drum and M loading. Betamovie used a single head version and 360' wrap but used a modified signal time compressing recording scheme that made playback impossible. BETACAM the broadcast version adopted a multiple head compact drum and M loading scheme.
I'm glad I chose VHS Beta had better video quality in the beginning. But changed with new iterations and stupid mistakes like the wires attached to the tray.
A failure waiting to happen.
You have it playing very well.
Making the head shiny is bad in this case.I had many issues with VCRs but that was because most manufacturers had assumed basic usage. When in reality was used 24/7 Due to record to watch later and constant usage every day. Consumer Reports had concluded that usage surpassed their estimated number 😳 at the time. Dad bought our first VCR in 1986 A Panasonic mono for 699.On sale🤣
I eventually sold it in 2001
Everything still worked. Metal VCRs what a concept before plastic rot components invaded .Good Video 😎
The word for what the polished drum causes is "stiction". In hydraulics industry we use Scotch-Brite to un-polish surfaces where seals slide for the same reason.
After watching one of your Beta videos I have made it a course of action to remove and replace the adhesive goo on the drum motor hall effect sensor. Hope you do that one before sending it out the door.
That capture looks to be sea world in Florida?? If it is, do you know what year roughly this was shot in? Only because I visited Florida and also SeaWorld and saw Shamu the whale. The footage just looks very familiar with the location setup and seating area. Sorry, not a technical question but just curious!
Vancouver aquarium. They no longer have any orca in captivity. The animal activists and tree huggers got the better of them. Someone also aparantly poisioned one of the beluga whales they had a few years ago. They no longer have them either.
I noticed in my Sony Video Walkman GV-9 PAL version it has a "delay line" device on the lcd display circuit board.
You really needed to know a lot of tech stuff to be able to achieve a good recording....
The Linear Skate mechanism is just a marketing gimmick from their CD players. It is a) to make the design more challenging or b) to impress the user or c) all of the above. My JVC camcorder has a flip out viewfinder that started gracefully degrading because of the open/close cycles.
Yup 100% marketing. No reason for it to exist. Same with linear tracking turntables.
As far as Beta video quality goes, would you say this is on par with the SL-HF900? Looks nice (for Beta).
One thing I wanted to see is how the monoscope looks with the DOC turned on and off. You should be able to gain a bit of a better resolution with the DOC off but the dropouts would drive me nuts...
It shouldn't change the frequency response. In pcm mode it also disabled eq (sharpness) control so the signal is more flat. The edit switch also disabled EQ so as to not over emphesize the copy.
Hand-delivered is great -- no packing peanuts!
Why use a CRT for your security cameras as opposed to a LCD TV?
I do use LCD now. This one is old and was burned from years of abuse. I use it in the shop to monitor the cameras only when i am working. Its off the rest of the time and of course for testing old vcrs. I have a big 27" crt with built in VHS and DVD that some day I will get around to wall mounting for a test monitor. Just need to build a shelf as I don't think it will go on that mount.
How can I contact you?
Are you interested in fixing an onkyo receiver that immediately goes into save mode. Older model TX-SR506
Chroma is delayed for crostalk cancel, it is addititve not switching.
Actually it is an artifact of signal processing. Why do you think every color tv has a 1h delay line on the lumamence signal. Same thing happens in the down conversion and then up conversion process. Betamax and 3/4" inverted the color between the even and off fields. That was done for crosstalk cancelation. The reason is because the color is recorded directly onto the tape whereas the lumanence is fm modulated. The lower frequency of the color signal leaks through the +6 -6 azimuth difference.
Vhs stepped the chroma forward 90' each field. That way vhs needs 2 full frames to get back in phase with the original signal. What this means was vhs needed 2 frames for color sync and betamax / umatic only needed 1.
Some would say just delay the luminance to get the chroma to line back up, but you can't because that would throw off timing signals and other data that can't be shifted like closed captions.
I agree completely that this loader design is crazy but there had to be at least one good reason for it. Can you think of any at all?
I have one that needs restoration (when I'm a little more flush with funds...) and I've long puzzled over why Sony did this... 🤔
Always enjoy your videos. 👍
Maybe there was a portable Beta VCR model which used this compact mechanism, but the sales were lower than expected, and they ended up with a hundred pallets of this tape transport remained, so they designed a tabletop VCR around it 🙂 . Just a wild guess.
I have a broken electronic board on my onkyo integra ta-2058. It’s the record part and record does not work is this something you can repair and if so how do I send it to you
That's an interesting design with the whole mechanism moving back and forth. Sony always making things more complicated 😆
Hate it. A few techs lost finger tips in this one. They even printed a warning in the manual about it.
Only problem I had with these units is the ejecting unit
Great picture at 8.00m,deep blue,what we lost because Sony decided to disappear this great format,consumers are falling into the prejudice.
In Professional you can see Betamax more Years....
I thought it was a cool design. Until you took the top off and operated it. Flexing that mass of wires every time the drawer opens and closes. Surely there is a better way. Great video!
A problem waiting to happen
@@12voltvids yet 37 years later the system is still working fine and no signs of those cables failing any time soon, sorry guys but time has proven sony right on this one. :)
@@diegomax sorry to disappoint but those wires were breaking all the time. This machine is old but it has likely seen very little use over the years. The heads are typically good for only about 1000 hours. Remember this is beta. Once the rental market was done for beta mist if these machines were put in storage. Why do you think many still work?
@@12voltvids well i was just talking about the loading mechanism, im not gonna debate you on the other aspects because you are clearly on another league than me when it comes to electronics and repairs, i was just pointing that the loading mechanism is just working fine after 37 years, i never had one of these machines myself (i never had any betamax for that matter, format wasnt popular where i live) but i find it beautiful. Cheers!
@@diegomax they had the loading mechanism worked out by this point. The sl2000 2500 and 2700 was another story. Those retractable guide pins were a very common repair. They would snap off.
Happy days
The older machines just keep on going until the heads/drum are beyond refurbishing.
If they were made today, the mechanisms would be 90% plastic and would not lost all these years.
The worst decks that i had to rebuild were the all plastic Philips ones, they would self destruct just
for the hell of it.
Have a great Easter Dave.
Philips never knew how to make anything that lasted. Both my parents and grandmother started with Philips color tv. They were always breaking down. After 5 years the tv guy refused to fix my grandmother's Philips k6 all tube color set.
@@12voltvids Philips were great innovators, but when it came to consumer electonics their designs
were poor and used thin single core wiring that broke if you moved it, and very thin low quality "Muck Metal"
for their chassis and mechanisms.
What shocked me was that the early B&O TV's were based in Philips designs and thus suffered similar issues.
Thankfully unlike Philips they learned from that mistake and the later sets were their own designs.
Today Philips is just a brand name like so many others.
@@Barbarapape my grandmother had a k6 which had excellent color when it worked. It spent more time in the shop. They used circuit boards with tube sockets on the board. Pull a tube to test or replace and break a bunch of connections on other tube sockets. My parents had a modular 4.
They used series filaments for the 4 tubes. 40kg6 and 42ec4 for the horizontal output and damper. Remember those tubes well as it would eat at least 2 sets of them a year. Under warranty the Philips guy changed the module at least twice. Out if warranty the local guy (who happened to live directly across the street from where i live now) was a regular visitor to change tubes.
@@12voltvids That was the way things were back then, pcb mounted valve holders were a recipe for a disaster.
The worst i came across were in GEC sets that had double sided print pcb's with valve holders, you can imagine
what happened when you tried to replace a valve (Tube)!
This was in the late 60's and early 70's when i was a spotty nosed trainee, you knew your customers by their
first names back then.
Happy days when you knew what spares to take with you.
@@Barbarapape the k6 was double sided full valve (tube, vaccum bulb as Shango called em) set. By the time the set was 5 years old the Philips tech refused to work on it. I remember the last time he came out. I would have been perhaps 12 and said it was the last time he was fixing it, to never call again and they were going to blacklist the address so nobody would come out to fix it. So then the guy across the street started showing up regularly and taking the set away for a few days. He talked her into buying a zenith. Now your talking a good set. That thing lasted longer then granny did and i ended up with that set. A chroma color 2 with space command "clicker" because that is exactly what it did. Clicked.
I took a dim view of the harness being bent over and over again :-(.
There must be a mix of fine wire and cotton fibers.
I still think it's a shit design.
That footage looks smashing, a good thing you captured it, all demolished.
in a way its a shame, but it was a reminder of the dark time of the mob.
AT LAST YOU HAVE IT