You have to appreciate the sheer tenacity of someone who encounter's a problem and is so much of a perfectionist that they invent their own solution. Burt making the solar compass very much reminds me of John Harrison inventing chronometer's to determine the longitude of ships at sea. And Harrison being so much of a perfectionist that he made several iterations!
Ha, thank you! This video did launch a little later than expected (making that model was a doozy!), but I should be back on a regular schedule going forward!
This is very cool, Alexis! Thanks for making this video. I'm from South/East Michigan and always knew about the iron / compass thing, but not about the solution. :)
The 'tables' you look uip can be found in The Navigational Almanac. Ship's navigators have them and can predict exactly where the sun will be for any day of the year and any hour of the day. So this is a nice cross-over between surveying and celestial navigation. Nice explanation.
The less popular way to find North is to wait until night and use a star compass to point at Polaris the north star. Then once the other surveyor is in the right place wave a light to the left or right, if they need to go one way or the other before they mark their location.
This is the best and happiest Michigan TH-cam channel on the Internet! Just knowing about the Meridian line Road, put me in a better mood. Your discussion about the compass was very informative. I don’t know if my nine-year-old will be as impressed as I was about your video, but I’m gonna watch it with him after I pick him up. Thank you, thank you!
Aw, thanks so much! I always appreciate hearing things like this - and it's an honor when people share these videos with their kids! (For what it's worth, I don't know that I would've been interested in solar compasses when I was nine, ha ha, so best of luck.)
What an amazing story! After you stated the problem I had a duh moment. Then the solar compass was another! I've always wondered how the surveyors did it. Thanks so much!
Great episode, was aware of the compass problem in general, but as i lived in FL years ago, that location didnt need hardly any compensation. Great to see you again.
GREAT VIDEO! I have never heard of a solar compass before your vid. I am a Michigander also. and I learned the hard way about iron and a false compass reading. Although technically, it would be steel, not iron. It's a long story, so I will spare you reading it. Thank you for sharing.
I first heard of solar compasses in connection with a British group in WWII called the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) that used them to navigate the Sahara desert in the effort to stop the German Afrika Korps. Thanks for the explanation and illustrations!
I love living in Marquette and watching your content. There’s been multiple times when I’m out driving around I’ll come across something you’ve made a video on.
Aw, hey, thanks so much! One of my favorite things about making this series, is being able to drive around the UP and have a slightly better understanding of why things are the way they are. So I'm glad to hear that!
Thanks again Alexis, I've seen those maps with the perfect Mile squares, it always amassed me how many very smart people we had back in those days. The Mechanics and science that went into that devise. As always God Bless...
This is an awesome story. I always wondered what those gadgets that surveyors used were for. In 2015, the compass in my car did not have any problems in the UP except in Copper Harbor. When I was parking at the marina to take a boat ride to the lighthouse, I noticed that it was not working and assumed the geology of the region might be why. There might have been other times on that trip (or 2 others since) that it was not working and I just didn't notice, but it was certainly not working that afternoon!
near100 miles or so south and it is a snowy day here, for a change. Coolness on the Sun Compass. A former co-worker left here, moved to Ishpeming to go to work in the mine.
Greetings from Florida! Always love your in depth review of all things UP, eh?! Please consider doing a video of Old Town Negaunee. Fascinating area! Stay warm up there!
I really enjoyed this. It's 80° in Houston I have my air conditioner on. Also, I never thought about how they would compensate for the magnetic anomalies caused by one of the largest iron ore deposits in the world.
Aircraft still have this issue when flying in to or out of Escanaba. On navigation charts it's specifically noted that there could be as much as a 14 degree magnetic difference on the ground
Another consideration is that the magnetic 'north pole' was several hundred miles south of where it currently is and has never been at the north pole (at least not in LONG time) which makes a magnetic compass less accurate the further north you go
Great story on surveying history! Worth noting is the apparent paradox that in order to use a solar compass one needs to know one's position in _both_ latitude and longitude. So how could the compass possibly be useful in unknown terrain? To resolve the paradox, one needs to consider the accuracy required for a compass bearing. To get a reasonable bearing, a merely _approximate_ position (to within 10s of miles) is needed to get latitude and solar time close enough to look up in an astronomical almanac. Such position tracking can certainly be achieved throughout a day or so of surveying and by carrying along a decent pocket watch. A magnetic compass has sources of similar if not far larger errors, first among them the declination (deviation of magnetic from geodetic North) being position-dependent as well, and subject to long-term (and hard-to-predict) changes from magnetic pole drift.
Another method is to shoot a line from the North Star. Which, I believe, is the single root of true north (not magneto north) for our entire directional system. Courtesy of Half Vast Flying
Interesting facts about compasses. I never knew about the Burt compass. I better be careful hiking up in the UP, the next time, and not rely on my compass.
Hello from from the 'Zoo. Haven't seen you for a while. Missed ya. Fascinating video. I grew up in Saginaw and my Parents owned a business in Midland. I know where Meridian road is, It's M-30, just west of Midland and goes up to West Branch.
If it weren't for the terrain, they could have used a South Pointing Chariot like the Chinese did. A South Pointing Chariot used mechanical gears operated from the wheel movements to keep pointing the same direction. Ironically, the Chinese invented that contraption in the 2nd centruy (BCE) despite already knowing how Lodestone could be used to float on a cork in water to determine North around the 4th century (BCE). But this was cool. We've all heard of sun dials. First I've heard of the Solar Compass and it's relation to Northern MI despite growing up there.
Good story. For anyone wearing an actual watch - you know, the ones with an hour and minute hand🙂- you have a solar compass on your wrist. Point the hour hand at the sun and sight along a line half way between the 12 and the hour hand. That's south, at least it is if solar noon at your location is actually at time zone noon. Adjustments can be made for your offset and for daylight saving time. Some field watches come with compass markings either on an internal or external rotatable bezel to make the job easier.
You should research Viking Sun Stones as a follow up to this video. They could "see" the sun even in full fog. I've built a few by just ordering the crystal online (and you can carefully split a large one into several smaller ones yourself).
Listen. I'm in Eastern Iowa. We don't have snow on the ground as of your release date. The snow in your outdoor shots is really killing my friendly warm spring vibe. Save the frozen outdoor B roll for mosquito season? :p
Ha ha, alas, this won't be the last outdoor footage you see from me this winter! (You will catch me hiding from the mosquitos whenever possible come summer, though...)
Thank You for the science lesson. How did Bert solve the compass issue when his team were woods at the time? I don't think he could just make a new compass right there on the spot?
That's a great question! I wasn't able to find anything about that in my research, unfortunately, but you're right that designing the compass did take him a bit of time.
Ha ha, thanks! I got my degree down on central campus, but I worked as a writer for the Aero department my senior year. It was one of the most helpful things I did in college for my career!
I believe that was an option! There was a bit of information in Burt's manual about this, but I believe he mentioned that this was more difficult and not usually something people did (so far as he was aware).
I imagine visibility as well as it requiring night contributed. I also recall tables for the positions of Jupiter’s moons were also used for determining the precise time. This could be used to determine longitude.
My understanding is that they're always a little bit on the move - which has certainly introduced navigational challenges! You can find some neat maps online of how they've migrated in recent years.
I think they are similar. The sexton is used for latitude and with a chronometer the longitude. Chronometers are even more complicated as they must keep good time when moving. That’s a good story also. Without longitude, sailors sometimes crash into shore and drown.
In a twist, I think that one may be named after a different Burt! There are definitely a couple of things named after W.A. Burt, though, including a lake!
I just love your bright sunny disposition. The education you provide is a bonus. keep up the great work!
You have to appreciate the sheer tenacity of someone who encounter's a problem and is so much of a perfectionist that they invent their own solution. Burt making the solar compass very much reminds me of John Harrison inventing chronometer's to determine the longitude of ships at sea. And Harrison being so much of a perfectionist that he made several iterations!
Truly! Also, oh man, I haven't thought about chronometers in years. Thanks for reminding me of that bit of history!
Thank you for the show AND welcome back.
Ha, thank you! This video did launch a little later than expected (making that model was a doozy!), but I should be back on a regular schedule going forward!
This is very cool, Alexis! Thanks for making this video. I'm from South/East Michigan and always knew about the iron / compass thing, but not about the solution. :)
The 'tables' you look uip can be found in The Navigational Almanac. Ship's navigators have them and can predict exactly where the sun will be for any day of the year and any hour of the day. So this is a nice cross-over between surveying and celestial navigation. Nice explanation.
The less popular way to find North is to wait until night and use a star compass to point at Polaris the north star. Then once the other surveyor is in the right place wave a light to the left or right, if they need to go one way or the other before they mark their location.
This is the best and happiest Michigan TH-cam channel on the Internet!
Just knowing about the Meridian line Road, put me in a better mood. Your discussion about the compass was very informative. I don’t know if my nine-year-old will be as impressed as I was about your video, but I’m gonna watch it with him after I pick him up.
Thank you, thank you!
Aw, thanks so much! I always appreciate hearing things like this - and it's an honor when people share these videos with their kids! (For what it's worth, I don't know that I would've been interested in solar compasses when I was nine, ha ha, so best of luck.)
What an amazing story! After you stated the problem I had a duh moment. Then the solar compass was another! I've always wondered how the surveyors did it. Thanks so much!
Great episode, was aware of the compass problem in general, but as i lived in FL years ago, that location didnt need hardly any compensation. Great to see you again.
I feel smarter after watching this episode!
Thank you for everything you do Alexis !
GREAT VIDEO! I have never heard of a solar compass before your vid. I am a Michigander also. and I learned the hard way about iron and a false compass reading. Although technically, it would be steel, not iron. It's a long story, so I will spare you reading it. Thank you for sharing.
Fascinating! I'd never heard of the solar compass. Thanks for introducing me to something new!
I first heard of solar compasses in connection with a British group in WWII called the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) that used them to navigate the Sahara desert in the effort to stop the German Afrika Korps. Thanks for the explanation and illustrations!
Thanks Alexis and happy winter from Traverse City.
I love living in Marquette and watching your content. There’s been multiple times when I’m out driving around I’ll come across something you’ve made a video on.
Aw, hey, thanks so much! One of my favorite things about making this series, is being able to drive around the UP and have a slightly better understanding of why things are the way they are. So I'm glad to hear that!
Thank you, so much, Alexis! This was such an interesting topic and one I had no idea about. You make learning about our beautiful state so much fun.
Another GREAT Video!!!
So glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks, Alexis! Another great video!!
Love your delivery and your passion you are quite good at this always fascinating thank you
Absolutely fascinating! Thanks again for a highly informative and educating video! Also, nice job on the animation model!
That was an excellent Geography and History presentation!
Thanks again Alexis, I've seen those maps with the perfect Mile squares, it always amassed me how many very smart people we had back in those days. The Mechanics and science that went into that devise. As always God Bless...
This is an awesome story. I always wondered what those gadgets that surveyors used were for. In 2015, the compass in my car did not have any problems in the UP except in Copper Harbor. When I was parking at the marina to take a boat ride to the lighthouse, I noticed that it was not working and assumed the geology of the region might be why. There might have been other times on that trip (or 2 others since) that it was not working and I just didn't notice, but it was certainly not working that afternoon!
My Dad used to teach navigation using the stars for the Cincinnati Power Squadron and used a sextant. He's from Alpena, MI and a UofM Grad.
Thanks for the history!
Thank you, Alexis great informative video.
Very interesting. I have never heard of this. Thanks
Alexis, another great video. I can't get enough. I hope you and your family are doing well. Belated Happy New Year 🎉🎉
Thanks so much, Chris! I appreciate it!
Very interesting, i learned something again Thanks
Amazing instrument for today let alone the 1830's, the solar compass, I never heard of it. THANK YOU Alexis
near100 miles or so south and it is a snowy day here, for a change. Coolness on the Sun Compass. A former co-worker left here, moved to Ishpeming to go to work in the mine.
Thanks for the reply. You are great at what you do.
How did I not know about this device? So cool! Thanks for the video.
Greetings from Florida! Always love your in depth review of all things UP, eh?! Please consider doing a video of Old Town Negaunee. Fascinating area! Stay warm up there!
Great video thank you for the interesting info.
Oh geez it's been so long since you've done a video I forgot I had subscribed to your channel. LOL
Ha ha, well, welcome! I usually publish a video once a month, but this one took an extra week. 🙂
I really enjoyed this. It's 80° in Houston I have my air conditioner on. Also, I never thought about how they would compensate for the magnetic anomalies caused by one of the largest iron ore deposits in the world.
Aircraft still have this issue when flying in to or out of Escanaba. On navigation charts it's specifically noted that there could be as much as a 14 degree magnetic difference on the ground
Oh, fascinating! I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing!
Another consideration is that the magnetic 'north pole' was several hundred miles south of where it currently is and has never been at the north pole (at least not in LONG time) which makes a magnetic compass less accurate the further north you go
Great story on surveying history! Worth noting is the apparent paradox that in order to use a solar compass one needs to know one's position in _both_ latitude and longitude. So how could the compass possibly be useful in unknown terrain?
To resolve the paradox, one needs to consider the accuracy required for a compass bearing. To get a reasonable bearing, a merely _approximate_ position (to within 10s of miles) is needed to get latitude and solar time close enough to look up in an astronomical almanac. Such position tracking can certainly be achieved throughout a day or so of surveying and by carrying along a decent pocket watch.
A magnetic compass has sources of similar if not far larger errors, first among them the declination (deviation of magnetic from geodetic North) being position-dependent as well, and subject to long-term (and hard-to-predict) changes from magnetic pole drift.
Another method is to shoot a line from the North Star. Which, I believe, is the single root of true north (not magneto north) for our entire directional system.
Courtesy of Half Vast Flying
I didn't know such a thing was a thing! Very cool video, see you in the next one :)
Interesting facts about compasses. I never knew about the Burt compass. I better be careful hiking up in the UP, the next time, and not rely on my compass.
Hello from from the 'Zoo. Haven't seen you for a while. Missed ya. Fascinating video. I grew up in Saginaw and my Parents owned a business in Midland. I know where Meridian road is, It's M-30, just west of Midland and goes up to West Branch.
If it weren't for the terrain, they could have used a South Pointing Chariot like the Chinese did. A South Pointing Chariot used mechanical gears operated from the wheel movements to keep pointing the same direction.
Ironically, the Chinese invented that contraption in the 2nd centruy (BCE) despite already knowing how Lodestone could be used to float on a cork in water to determine North around the 4th century (BCE).
But this was cool. We've all heard of sun dials. First I've heard of the Solar Compass and it's relation to Northern MI despite growing up there.
Very cool story!
Very cool!
Hundred years of mining just to fix the compass, thats dedication!
Good story. For anyone wearing an actual watch - you know, the ones with an hour and minute hand🙂- you have a solar compass on your wrist. Point the hour hand at the sun and sight along a line half way between the 12 and the hour hand. That's south, at least it is if solar noon at your location is actually at time zone noon. Adjustments can be made for your offset and for daylight saving time. Some field watches come with compass markings either on an internal or external rotatable bezel to make the job easier.
Very informative, than you.
Love Teal Lake, great jumbo perch, and walleye. Is Negaunee still the quite little town it was back in the 1980's?
You should research Viking Sun Stones as a follow up to this video. They could "see" the sun even in full fog. I've built a few by just ordering the crystal online (and you can carefully split a large one into several smaller ones yourself).
Listen. I'm in Eastern Iowa. We don't have snow on the ground as of your release date. The snow in your outdoor shots is really killing my friendly warm spring vibe. Save the frozen outdoor B roll for mosquito season? :p
Ha ha, alas, this won't be the last outdoor footage you see from me this winter! (You will catch me hiding from the mosquitos whenever possible come summer, though...)
Thank You for the science lesson. How did Bert solve the compass issue when his team were woods at the time? I don't think he could just make a new compass right there on the spot?
That's a great question! I wasn't able to find anything about that in my research, unfortunately, but you're right that designing the compass did take him a bit of time.
I wonder. How long will it take, if ever, to remove enough iron ore to let a compass work?
Oooooo….someone’s a North Campus engineering nerd, eh? Good for you!
Ha ha, thanks! I got my degree down on central campus, but I worked as a writer for the Aero department my senior year. It was one of the most helpful things I did in college for my career!
Hello from Ann Arbor :)
Did they also use stellar measurements?
I believe that was an option! There was a bit of information in Burt's manual about this, but I believe he mentioned that this was more difficult and not usually something people did (so far as he was aware).
I imagine visibility as well as it requiring night contributed. I also recall tables for the positions of Jupiter’s moons were also used for determining the precise time. This could be used to determine longitude.
Thanks for the video. I hadn’t realized the local compass deflection could be so pronounced.
Didn't the magnetic poles recently shift slightly?
My understanding is that they're always a little bit on the move - which has certainly introduced navigational challenges! You can find some neat maps online of how they've migrated in recent years.
I wish you'd been my teacher !
Great video as always. Thank you :) ok
Are you related to Dr Boz on TH-cam. You look a lot like her and sound like her. That’s a good thing.
I am not! I definitely see the connection, though, ha ha.
How is this solar compass different to a sextant?
I think they are similar. The sexton is used for latitude and with a chronometer the longitude.
Chronometers are even more complicated as they must keep good time when moving.
That’s a good story also. Without longitude, sailors sometimes crash into shore and drown.
This looks like a sextant sailors use.
Yes, similar. Date and time and position of the sun at that instant gives your position.
Longitude was the hardest to determine.
FXB is such a strange place full of strange people.
😉
You just ruined my belief I magnetism 😂
I hope this doesn't set off any flat earth people...
Go green!! Go white!!
Zip code 48417... Burt Michigan! West of Birch Run, south of Saginaw.
In a twist, I think that one may be named after a different Burt! There are definitely a couple of things named after W.A. Burt, though, including a lake!