2021: Introduction to the OnePSG Alpha Prototype
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- 2021: This is the first look at the fully functional prototype of the OnePSG pedal steel guitar.
For lots more information please check:
paglieresteelguitars.com
There, you can also click on '"Get Updates" to sign up for the occasional update email.
This is absolutely intriguing. As a guitarist who would very much like to learn pedal steel, I can easily see myself buying this instrument. The ability to change tuning or use a virtual capo on the fly is incredible!
As a pedal steel player I can definitely see the value of this invention. It's genius. But as a modeling amp user I worry about the dependence on electronics for operation. I've suffered several equipment failures with modeling amps. I do love the tuning changes and ability to experiment with various pedal routing options. Your sound demo was fantastic.
Thanks for your comments. I totally understand being wary of electronics. Toasters, MIDI keyboards, Airbus and Boeing passenger jets. It's all electronics. And sometimes they fail. My regular steel amp has acted up, my computer has died. The question is whether something can be built that is reasonably protected from certain kinds of failure. That's about the engineering and the build. In a sense, even if this design were never to be on tour, banged around, etc., would it still be of value? Some people have told me that they would love this because of the (lack of) weight. I, as you say, find the most compelling aspect to be the possibilities of experimentation with copedents. We're currently in the Beta Prototype stage, ever-improving!
Fantastic! This will be a must have on any big recording studio!
Some people like the idea of the lighter weight guitar. I like the idea of experimenting with copedents. But yes, a backline with a pedal steel has always seemed impossible. But now one PSG (pardon the pun) can work for just about any number of players.
Alan, this is fascinating. This is the first I've heard of your project.
I had started envisioning something similar to what you're doing here about two years ago. My idea was not quite as grand as yours. The basic concept was to retain the physical raising and lowering of the strings via the changer, only to have it done through servo motors. Obviously the knee levers and pedals would then become digital, as yours have done. So you could get rid of most of the undercarriage and save on a good bit of weight, and have a programmable copedent, albeit much more limited in scope than yours. So you'd still be getting an entirely "analog" sound (at least to the extent of what is transmitted by the guitar's output jack), which as you and I know, is something that the Pedal Steel community tends to hold dear.
For whatever my opinion is worth, I am all for this innovation, and will be anxiously awaiting any developments.
Thanks for dropping by.
Over the years I've seen people post about servos as a way to create programmable string tension changes. I think there are posts on the Steel Guitar Forum talking about servos as far back as at least 2011. For some reason servos never quite spoke to me. Still too mechanical? Not sure. Certainly one would still be limited by string tension.
But over the years as better real-time pitch-shifting algos and the availability of powerful microcontrollers came along and as I became of aware of them (I was a software guy, but not an embedded systems programming guy), it seemed like a way to go. After some heavy learning, it seemed the right way to go. ;)
And yes, I wanted to make a true pedal steel, sound-wise and manner of playing-wise. That's how the project began and took me over. Definitely a passion project; everyone knows there really ain't no money in the pedal steel guitar world.
As for developments, you can always visit the website, paglieresteelguitars.com . Also, if you can sign up there for the very occasional short email updates.
In any case, thanks for your interest.
Super interesting. Same worry with everything about the stability of software, but really cool stuff
Finally, someone is thinking 'outside' the box.
Great job and good luck with it, I'd like to try one. WC
Thanks!
Wow! Just amazing
Line 6 Didi it with their Variax guitars about 15 years ago, I’d prefer one knob to change the tuning rather than the LCD screen constantly flashing me
Holy cow!! Thats impressive!!! Great job designing this!
Thanks very much. The design and building has been quite a ride. Before I started the project, though I had been a software guy for years, I didn't know anything about embedded systems programming or electronics or digital signal processing or wood working or metal machining. Of course PCB design and assembly, wood, machining are done by others, who know what they're doing. The DSP is a software library I'm using. So, I'm doing the general programming and coordinating everything. The project has been fun ... and expensive.
Wow. This changes everything. I want one but in a 12 string.
It’s designed to allow up to 12 strings. I’ve always been a U-12 player, so I just had to design it for up to 12.
I decided to make a 10 string for the prototype because most players would more easily relate to that.
fantastic, I’d definitely love to get one
Check out the website (paglieresteelguitars.com) for the status of the project (currently Beta Prototype stage). The FAQs page talks a bit about how close it might be to a "product."
Fascinating and forward-thinking!
Absolutely remarkable! Can tone be altered/adjusted to emulate different steel/amp/pickup combinations we're familiar with? For instance Emmons P/P, single coil pickup, Fender Twin Reverb with JBL's, a favorite of mine, and others I'm sure.
Others have asked about that same thing. It's complicated. On one hand, from the beginning, it's been the intent to make a pedal steel (that is ... really like any other). On that premise, it's not the instrument's job to do modeling, have lots of effects, or do lots of "post-production". That will be the job of amplifiers and effects units and DAWs and such.
On the other hand, the pickups are remarkable. See cycfi.com for details of the Nu pickups. Since they have a completely flat frequency response from 20Hz to above 20kHz (that is, all frequencies are there to mess with), one could filter out whatever is needed to arrive at the profile of any pickup. (I leave amp modeling to amp modeling. I know essentially nothing of that). In fact, Joel, who runs cycfi.com has done that, not to mention emulate different pickup placement (e.g., bridge, neck, and even 12th fret!!).
I would like to at least have per string volume, EQ, and distortion adjustments. Talk about string separation.
Right now, it's all about getting from prototype to ... something.
That's pretty crazy!
You could even put an evertune bridge on it.
Absolutely amazing, Imagine what would Buddy say on this invention.
This is a great idea, and quite ambitious. It's really impressive and this could be the next evolution of the steel guitar if it's done right. That being said, I feel like the digital artifacts when the notes are picked and during bends is a bit distracting (and only so much can be covered up with volume pedal swells). With all that extra space in the back side of the guitar (the arm rest area) I would rework the whole thing to add some sort of mechanisms to physically change the tuning and copedants. I believe that is possible with the application you have in the tablet and something like a raspbery pi pico to handle the physical changes robotically (for the pedals, it might be as simple as adjusting some sort of stoppers. For the tunings you'd need to switch out the traditional tuning pegs for something else that could be mechanically manipulated as well as tuned by hand. Think something like a headless Excel that could easily be rolled to whatever pitch you need). That just leaves the balance between the changer and the copedant/tuner adjustments, but I think that could also be automated to adjust. It might limit what you could do in the long run, but I think it would sound much better. If the artifacts can be worked out in the software, I think you not only would solve your own problem, but also the problem many other products of this nature have been plagued with. Good luck and keep it up!
Thanks for stopping by.
As for doing the pitch-shifting mechanically but with some kind of potentially programmable servo to tighten and loosen strings, that is already being done or investigated. When I started, I wanted to go further and separate physical string tension from the notes heard (since string tension will always limit how far a tuning can be changed). That's always been my goal. As you can imagine, doing so would remove all kinds of issues with the design of the traditional instrument (ease and immediacy of changes, range of intervals, weight, etc.).
The intro video has some audio artifacts, and yes, fixing it all is complicated. As for making nice sounds ;) have you checked out the video, on the website, of Buck Reid messing around on the Alpha Prototype?
Of course we continue to work on eliminating all issues. We're currently in the Beta Prototype stage, working on the electronics redesign and software. Always work to be done on software ;)
@@paglieresteelguitars Excellent! I'll check out the other videos. I've always been interested in this sort of thing and nerd out when I see someone innovating like this. I hope this project will be a success and you can get everything fine tuned (no pun intended). 👍
So this is per string pickup output with pitchshifters on each out? I’ve been messing with this in a low level way by using a submarine pickup, and a/b/y switch into a whammy pedal, but obviously there’s major limitations and issues. I would need to use the big PU with all 6 outs, then have them ran through a brain that could set each individual pitch shift to 100% wet for this to even work somewhat correctly…. It’s been on my mind as a sort of hybrid option for a lap. Probably more trouble than it’s worth for me tho, after watching Kayton Robert’s play I’m a little confused as to why one would even need it :)
Oh my God you're going to take all the pedal steel guitar companies out of business with that thing incredible how much for that puppy in the window
I don’t think this will put PSG companies out of business. The analogy isn’t perfect, but electronic keyboards didn't put piano makers out of business, and electric guitars with B benders didn’t put acoustic guitar makers out of business.
As for cost, this question gets asked a lot and so it’s answered on the FAQs page of paglieresteelguitars.com.
This is BONKERS. I love it! I want one!
Bonkers indeed. I’ll have to add that description to the website!
As for wanting one, the project is currently in the Beta Prototype phase so it’s difficult to say when it might become a “product.”
Check the website every now and then to see how things are progressing. You can even sign up at the website to get on the list for the occasional official update email, if you’d like.
I always wondered if this could be done fantastic
Yes. I wondered about it nearly 40 years ago. It just took someone crazy to do it. ;) But seriously, thanks!
Incredible! Wow!
Wow
very cool!!!!!
Really cool!
AMAZING
Very cool
This is really cool
Sorry for the late reply.
I think it’s cool too ;)
You can learn more at the website: paglieresteelguitars.com . The site is not quite yet public (you can request the password from the site) but should be fairly soon. And you can also get on the updates email list (no worries about clogging up your inbox, the updates don’t go out very frequently).
Thanks again.
I wish you could cover the screen with something while you’re playing. Like pianos have the thing that drops down to cover the keys when you’re done playing. Just because I would fear accidentally bumping the screen and changing the tuning mid song. That or placing the screen somewhere else like along the back of the instrument vertical. That and the screen just kinda looks out of place there.
Thanks for commenting!
Ah, the screen…. I’ve gone back-and-forth countless times on screen related issues. You can read about some of them on the website. In any case, since the OnePSG is still in the prototype stage, the screen was placed in the body (for a number of reasons) where it is currently located in the body (for a number of reasons), and the ultimate solution for the position of the screen has been left for a little later.
As for accidentally touching the screen and changing something in the middle of playing, that actually happened to one player (his left palm touched the screen) when the Alpha Prototype was demonstrated in Nashville. So, I went home and programmed a small lock icon in the upper right hand corner, tucked in close to the bezel (firmware upgrade!). It’s a toggle. Touch it once and nothing can be input on the screen until it is touched again to unlock the screen.
The screen is also dimmable.
A vertical screen on the back apron up against the player’s stomach would be strange. For it to work at all, it would have to flip up, and then we get into some kind of sturdy mount for a 7” screen that could withstand thousands of flip ups and flip downs, not to mention how the cables run to it….
Anyway, as I say, later for that, after the coming Beta Prototype is done.
@@paglieresteelguitars you could go completely radical and just create an app for your smartphone that Bluetooth’s to the instrument. Positive grid does that with their amps. I connect my phone to my amp and can add all kinds of effects and foot pedal simulations from my phone. That might save you a ton of headache as you don’t have to install a screen or display on the actual instrument. Everybody has already got a phone🤷♂️.
As described on the website’s FAQs (since it’s such an often asked question), it was a conscious decision to not use a smart phone.
For one thing, one of the main design principles in the entire project was that this was to be a self-contained pedal steel guitar. No external gear.
For another, there’s no saving of headaches involved in maintaining a separate app for at least two phone operating systems. Imagine being at the mercy of OS upgrades. Imagine a new iOS version is released, introducing an incompatibility, and you can’t play your guitar until the dozens of developers on the Pagliere Steel Guitars software development team get around to fixing things.
Thirdly, there’s enough software development time already in the project that another app on another platform does not sound like a lot of fun for the team. Oh, did I say dozens on the team? I meant just the one person. ;)
Actually, the first and second reasons are the main ones. You can be sure that the company that makes the amp you’re talking about has more people on salary than the average PSG builder. Certainly more software devs ;)
hey I saw this link from the fb group" Pedal Steel" I was accepted into the group but when I tried to post an introduction and thank the group for having me I got blocked. Not sure why. anyway. you mentioned there are no levers? so is this digital? my big question is how is the response when playing faster passages? would it be the same responsiveness as standard PSG?
There are definitely knee levers. Currently five pedals and five levers, though there is capacity to have more at some point in the future.
As for whether it is digital, there is really only one aspect of the OnePSG that is digital: the actual changing of string pitches. (In fact, the original working name for this project was “Digitally Pitch-Shifted Pedal Steel Guitar”. I do my best to convince people not to call it a digital pedal steel ;) )
Regular strings, magnetic pick ups, pedals, and knee levers. That’s all the same.
The laws of physics being what they are, one can’t do digital audio processing without at least some latency. In real time audio processing of course you aim for the shortest possible latency. Of all the pedal steel greats who have played the alpha prototype, only one even mentioned it, and in passing. It is effectively imperceptible. And that's the first prototype.
I've been researching this ideA for the last week . This is amazing.i was wanting to make more of a learning tool. I was going to try to go with midi, and with nylon string so I can have a library of songs and led ligjt up the strings you play at that time . And let's on the frets to light up where you play and color code for different pedals and lever variations. I was thinking of using ir emitters and detectors for pickups or tiny vibration sensor. And something to detect where the bar is when I pluck such as a coder strip or proximity detector to determine where the bar is to play the right note. Do you have any suggestions to this?
I see. Yes, that’s a different kind of instrument/tool with a different purpose.
I wanted to build a true pedal steel guitar but one that replaced mechanical string tension changes as a way to change pitches.
I decided early on that, to make a pedal steel that didn’t require a player to change anything about their technique and that had strings, pickups, etc. I didn’t want MIDI or WiFi or Bluetooth or ….
Do check out Jeff Snyder’s Electrosteel project.
Awesome.
Thanks!
Does your instrument use any of the tech that is used in the Antares Autotune guitars or the Line 6 Variax guitars?
It does in the sense that real-time pitch-shifting of picked strings is a thing. I don't know exactly what digital signal processing (DSP) math/software algo(s) they use. For the DSP, I'm using a library from Jeff Snyder. The library has a lot different effects but most of the pitch-shifting algo pieces were ported from some code originally written by Katja Vetter.
Badass..
thats nuts
Ha. It’s crazy but it might just work!
Amazing technology but amazing tech has failed to catch on with musicians many times before in the past one similar tech instrument being the Antares Autotune guitar. Will this sell to pedal steel players? Hmmm.
Will it sell to PSG players? Darn good question. I've more or less always thought that PSG players were an overly traditional group. But the comments on here and on the website are almost all positive. So, if nothing else, it's changing my mind for the good. Maybe PSG players aren't quite as experimental as 6-string guitar players, but I think most PSG players can see the advantages of this design enough for it to be attractive. Plus, there are more and more younger players and that's a great thing. As for the technology, I can't really know what math/software algorithms Antares uses, but in a sense it's the same: real-time pitch-shifting of a picked string's output. This project, for its pitch-shifting, uses the pitch-shifting algo from Jeff Snyder's audio DSP C code library. The library has lots of different DSP effects. The pitch-shifting in particular was ported from some original code by Katja Vetter.
what tension are strings placed at? ie original tuning
Currently, the "physical" open strings (as opposed to "virtual" open strings of any particular copedent chosen) are tuned to (from 1st string to 10th): G4, F4, E4 C4, A3, G3, E3, C3, B2, Bb2. The gauges are what they need to be for the strings to feel like normal pedal steel strings when picking. Therefore the tension is really about the same for any 10-string pedal steel. The pitches chosen aren't really arbitrary. Instead of going into the rationale for the pitches (and gauges) here, I've put it on the FAQs page of the website.
What is the Price? Bave emailed Pagliere couple of times no answer. This is getting old, all these teasers and no Cow! Like they said about George Bush”All Nay and No Cow.”
Typo: All Hat and No Cow!
Hello! I commented on a couple of posts on the Steel Guitar Forum, one of which you had commented on. It answers your question as do several other comments there. The website, paglieresteelguitars.com, also answers the question and many others. You should definitely visit the website, especially the FAQs page.
There you will see that the project is in the Beta Prototype stage which means it's still under development. There is no "product" yet, and therefore no price. We're still cranking away...
So what happens if the electronics crap out in the middle of a gig?
You can find a discussion of related thoughts in the FAQs on the website: paglieresteelguitars.com .
You get to see the Matrix glitch!
want one
Thank you for your interest! Check the website's FAQs page for info on when one might be coming.
Is this still in development?
Yes, it is still in development. We’re in the Beta prototype stage.
You can learn more at the website: paglieresteelguitars.com . The site will be public soon but in the meantime, you can request the password from the site.
You can also get on the updates email list there (the updates don’t go out too frequently).
EDIT: The website is public now: paglieresteelguitars.com.
We need to hear a better player demonstrate this.. You can barely play. No offense I just want to hear something more musical to see if it's tracking. I just need to hear the results.. Just because you can do all these changes doesn't mean it sounds like it's supposed to sound..
Ha. No offense taken.
And as you can tell, the video was merely an introduction to the project, not a demonstration of my inadequate playing.
The first page of the website, given in the demo video, includes a short video of Buck Reid playing the very same prototype. Several other greats played it that same week.
This is absolutely intriguing. As a guitarist who would very much like to learn pedal steel, I can easily see myself buying this instrument. The ability to change tuning or use a virtual capo on the fly is incredible!