Top tips. I fly in a mountainous area and I've always been very uncomfortable with those hits of turbulence. In the morning when the sun is low and cooking one side of a mountain, you can really get rocked by convective air. I've had flights where I honestly just wanted to be back on the ground. Your triangle method helped me overcome a lot of that discomfort. I also found that doing the triangle while locking my left elbow on the side of the passenger seat and gripping tightly while holding forward pressure on the cyclic (think sliding your hand up the tube, not manipulating the control up or down) really gives a solid base to ride the rollercoaster out without any accidental control inputs.
Good tips, thank you. I was flying an Enstrom once. Heading back to the home field, I encountered turbulence near the surrounding hills. After landing, I saw an R22 which had just landed. His tail boom had a cut through the top of it, where the MR had impacted it. The TR shaft was undamaged, fortunately. I would later acquire ratings for B206, H369, R22 and R44 (which I fly to this day). Robinson a/c are a brilliant design. Thanks again for all your flying tips!
I'm not from there myself, but I know from investigations carried out in New Zealand and other commentary that it is most certainly not a universal opinion to state that 'Robinson a/c are a great design'. See for example the comment of 'Martin Sutherland' below in these comments, for example, though I see it was written long after yours.
If you have to be this careful in turbulence flying a Robinson, it may be time for a main rotor hub redesign. Prior to the Cessna Caravan, the Bell 206 was the safest single engine aircraft and it also had only two blades.
The elf on a shelf......a mountain shelf that is. Haha. 6:13. Again, hard to see on an iPhone, looked like he/she was not holding anything, just waving? Seriously though, great topic tonight with some great pointers! Thanks for providing all this great content!
6:13 is a Sancho elf either waving his hands or holding something like a wind sock maybe. Great topic, while keeping up on the regs your videos help supplement what I am learning.
Mischa say thanks to Simon to allow you to make all learning videos for your channel during his learning otherwise we would not be enjoying such good teaching. Regards from Argentina.
That was very slick timing flying and Mischa talking over the mountain with the Elf in background as you pass. Very Slick guys. It's getting harder.white wind sock.
We've had a big media beat up on robinson helicopters here in NZ involving low g accidents. My veiw is if u fly them with in there limitations ( the same as any other helicopter ) and follow your good advice there is nothing wrong with them even the R22 :).
Exactly right. If you fly within your and the helicopter's limitations, you'll be fine. My understanding is that in Aus and NZ, the cattle-mustering operators can be brutal on their R22s and crash more way more often than if flown properly. As a consequence, the "authorities" blame the ship and demonize Robinson. Stupid.
Wev got a guy over here who fully inverted a r22 and ended up 180 to his original track with a student on bord the managed to land. The bump stops were smashed and blades were rippled. I beleave he is one of 2 people to have survived mast bumping. Then he has the cheak to go on national tv and say theres a issue with robinson when really it was his poor skills to end up in negitive g. Its widely believed he was demonstrating low g. Guys like these are the ones that give robinson a bad rep. Oh and now he does RSAT training. Figure that one out:)
Ag Copta worrying! I don’t suppose you’ve got a reference to the crash report do you? That would make really interesting reading and I know people here in the UK who’d love an opportunity to study the details.
Hi yea if you google new plymouth mast bumping theres the taic investigation and other good stuff. The blades wernt damaged like i thought after reading it but the teeter hinge and bump stops were smashed. The instructor has become abit of a worry in the industrie. When i spoke to him it seemed he was proud of what he'd done and sure what he did after he got into low g was realy good but with a shit load of luck to survive. Geting into in the first place was really bad and now trying to say its was a fault with robinson (yea right) the real truth will never come out.
Ag Copta thanks for the reply mate, much appreciated. Some instructors get like that. Arrogant, narcissistic and ego driven; some are frustrated with instruction and are bored so put themselves into challenging situations to show off. Madness utter madness and missing the point as the guy in the right seat is mislead and filling his pants. You’re exactly right about the luck part. I wish more people thought along those lines. A helicopter is a lot of rotating parts waiting to go wrong 😂😂 that’s why we’re always looking for places to autorotate into as part of the scan. I’ve experienced self induced accidental low G once as an R22 student and learned my lesson, a couple of times during heavy turbulence and it’s unnerving without thinking about the real consequences with a teetering head just above you. Fly safe my friend.
Good advice. Thanks. We are talking about it because, well it is a terrifying thought i.e. your 'rotatory wing' departing the aircraft. Not a lot of lift after that.
Nice. I would add one thing: Keep the power somewhere around 15-20" of MAP. To one avoid overspeed's. Below 15" MAP the rotor starts floating fairly fast. And two, if you get into a low-g situation it won't roll that aggressive than with a high power setting.
Bear in mind that in the mountains we have to assume that the air is thinner as we're higher (although technically cooler and therefore more dense - but not enough to counteract the height) so you need considerable MAP to fly S&L and certainly to climb. Single pilot R22 you're possibly going to be able to be at 18" but lower and you need to add carb-heat which removes up to 2" from your MAP limits. Power management in mountains is a whole different ball game !
Your videos have great advice! My wife and I like your explanations of piloting unexpected experiences. We see a Hudson love scratch on the right side of your nose... I remember those... Nail trimming helps... Ha,ha.
A helmet isn't going to help much in the event of a crash. It's mostly for noise cancellation as well as comfort. If you're flying with NVGs you also need something to attach them to. Helmets also have two built-in visors.
What exactly? If you really think a helmet is going to save you during a crash then I've got bad news for you... And when was the last time you saw a commercial airplane pilot wearing a helmet?
Great informative video and needed! Thanks! I got in a wind rotor a couple of weeks ago and lost 1k feet in about 2 seconds. Scared me to death as it rolled right and dropped. Training kicked in before I could even think. I put in aft cyclic and dropped collective a bit and just let it stabilize and slowly moved away from the area. 🤢🤢. Also I saw the elf at 8:18 on top of the mountain as you flew by.
Newbie here, so can this ONLY happen in 2-bladed helicopters? I know mast-bumping, yes, but the effects of turbulence and the solutions you provide here, is that universal for all helicopters or is it that once you start adding 3 or more blades the turbulence minimizes or maybe acts on the aircraft differently such that different maneuvers would need to be applied (and if so, what kinds)?
It's the semi-rigid rotor system, which just happens to have two blades, but not the problem. This system is on several helicopters and mast bumping is a possibility on all of them, just not as likely. The true culprit is weight. The Robinsons are extremely light weight and as such the blades can easily lose their loading in a low-G movement, where as heavier aircraft keep weight pulling down on the blades, keeping them flapped up and out of the way.
Something I didn't hear mentioned but I wonder about. If turbulence induces a low G situation, wouldn't roll more likely be caused (and corrected) by tail rotor thrust or is that only really a factor on helicopters with a tailrotor mounted higher above the centerline of the boom?
Matt Stambaugh the main thing is to get the rotor loaded back up again. You need to gently use cyclic for that. Once you have the disk loaded again you and proceed to recover the aircraft with whatever is needed.
Thank you for the reply! I really appreciate the way you step away from some of the more "gross" instruction and dig into the subtlety. The order in which actions are taken being just as important as the actions themselves, the advice of very-high-hour instructors such as yourself legitimately has the potential to save a lot of headaches (and the occasional life).
You say you have no control getting buffed up and down in turbulence, teach how to cancel that with collective and practice it and eventually you you get good at it and getting buffed up and down doesn't happen
Top tips. I fly in a mountainous area and I've always been very uncomfortable with those hits of turbulence. In the morning when the sun is low and cooking one side of a mountain, you can really get rocked by convective air. I've had flights where I honestly just wanted to be back on the ground. Your triangle method helped me overcome a lot of that discomfort. I also found that doing the triangle while locking my left elbow on the side of the passenger seat and gripping tightly while holding forward pressure on the cyclic (think sliding your hand up the tube, not manipulating the control up or down) really gives a solid base to ride the rollercoaster out without any accidental control inputs.
Good tips, thank you. I was flying an Enstrom once. Heading back to the home field, I encountered turbulence near the surrounding hills. After landing, I saw an R22 which had just landed. His tail boom had a cut through the top of it, where the MR had impacted it. The TR shaft was undamaged, fortunately. I would later acquire ratings for B206, H369, R22 and R44 (which I fly to this day). Robinson a/c are a brilliant design. Thanks again for all your flying tips!
I'm not from there myself, but I know from investigations carried out in New Zealand and other commentary that it is most certainly not a universal opinion to state that 'Robinson a/c are a great design'.
See for example the comment of 'Martin Sutherland' below in these comments, for example, though I see it was written long after yours.
If you have to be this careful in turbulence flying a Robinson, it may be time for a main rotor hub redesign. Prior to the Cessna Caravan, the Bell 206 was the safest single engine aircraft and it also had only two blades.
?????
@J So, it is a design flaw. The head is not suited to the application which results in an overall flawed design.
The elf on a shelf......a mountain shelf that is. Haha. 6:13. Again, hard to see on an iPhone, looked like he/she was not holding anything, just waving? Seriously though, great topic tonight with some great pointers! Thanks for providing all this great content!
6:12 green person waving :) interesting advice.
6:13 is a Sancho elf either waving his hands or holding something like a wind sock maybe.
Great topic, while keeping up on the regs your videos help supplement what I am learning.
Mischa say thanks to Simon to allow you to make all learning videos for your channel during his learning otherwise we would not be enjoying such good teaching. Regards from Argentina.
That was very slick timing flying and Mischa talking over the mountain with the Elf in background as you pass. Very Slick guys. It's getting harder.white wind sock.
We've had a big media beat up on robinson helicopters here in NZ involving low g accidents. My veiw is if u fly them with in there limitations ( the same as any other helicopter ) and follow your good advice there is nothing wrong with them even the R22 :).
Exactly right. If you fly within your and the helicopter's limitations, you'll be fine. My understanding is that in Aus and NZ, the cattle-mustering operators can be brutal on their R22s and crash more way more often than if flown properly. As a consequence, the "authorities" blame the ship and demonize Robinson. Stupid.
Wev got a guy over here who fully inverted a r22 and ended up 180 to his original track with a student on bord the managed to land. The bump stops were smashed and blades were rippled. I beleave he is one of 2 people to have survived mast bumping. Then he has the cheak to go on national tv and say theres a issue with robinson when really it was his poor skills to end up in negitive g. Its widely believed he was demonstrating low g. Guys like these are the ones that give robinson a bad rep. Oh and now he does RSAT training. Figure that one out:)
Ag Copta worrying! I don’t suppose you’ve got a reference to the crash report do you? That would make really interesting reading and I know people here in the UK who’d love an opportunity to study the details.
Hi yea if you google new plymouth mast bumping theres the taic investigation and other good stuff. The blades wernt damaged like i thought after reading it but the teeter hinge and bump stops were smashed. The instructor has become abit of a worry in the industrie. When i spoke to him it seemed he was proud of what he'd done and sure what he did after he got into low g was realy good but with a shit load of luck to survive. Geting into in the first place was really bad and now trying to say its was a fault with robinson (yea right) the real truth will never come out.
Ag Copta thanks for the reply mate, much appreciated. Some instructors get like that. Arrogant, narcissistic and ego driven; some are frustrated with instruction and are bored so put themselves into challenging situations to show off. Madness utter madness and missing the point as the guy in the right seat is mislead and filling his pants. You’re exactly right about the luck part. I wish more people thought along those lines. A helicopter is a lot of rotating parts waiting to go wrong 😂😂 that’s why we’re always looking for places to autorotate into as part of the scan. I’ve experienced self induced accidental low G once as an R22 student and learned my lesson, a couple of times during heavy turbulence and it’s unnerving without thinking about the real consequences with a teetering head just above you.
Fly safe my friend.
Good advice. Thanks. We are talking about it because, well it is a terrifying thought i.e. your 'rotatory wing' departing the aircraft. Not a lot of lift after that.
Elf shows up around 6:13 waving. Clever clever
Missed the elf. Gotta watch it again. Love the instructional. Thanks.
6:10 look out on the mountain side, there's a person in green😂😂
Nice, some useful info to bear in mind, fly em right, they work right, react/respond according to what you feel, and training tells you 😀
hmm silly smiley, but surely some of THE most important moments are when what training tells you differs from what you feel, and needs to overrule it.
Awesome Mischa. Really enjoying the Vlogmas videos.
Nice. I would add one thing: Keep the power somewhere around 15-20" of MAP. To one avoid overspeed's. Below 15" MAP the rotor starts floating fairly fast. And two, if you get into a low-g situation it won't roll that aggressive than with a high power setting.
Bear in mind that in the mountains we have to assume that the air is thinner as we're higher (although technically cooler and therefore more dense - but not enough to counteract the height) so you need considerable MAP to fly S&L and certainly to climb. Single pilot R22 you're possibly going to be able to be at 18" but lower and you need to add carb-heat which removes up to 2" from your MAP limits. Power management in mountains is a whole different ball game !
I shouldn't have added any numbers, probably saying keep MAP as low as possible in the situation you are in.
Dietmar Gufler point well made. Always someone who’ll pick up on the details - I didn’t mean to be difficult!
hh, your not... i just personally don't like saying things wrong ;)
Pilot yellow
So what your saying is your keeping the cyclic in the center because “ theoretically” 2 degree’s separates you from life and death !!
yep, i see the elf at 6:12. Cant see what his doing, but i guess he wants to get back in the heli.....
Such helpful advice!
Thanks for putting all these videos together and I'm so happy I found your channel!
Thank you man 👍🏾
Your videos have great advice! My wife and I like your explanations of piloting unexpected experiences. We see a Hudson love scratch on the right side of your nose... I remember those... Nail trimming helps... Ha,ha.
Another great explanation, thanks. Why is it that I see a lot of Heli pilots wearing helmets while flying?
for head protection
A helmet isn't going to help much in the event of a crash. It's mostly for noise cancellation as well as comfort. If you're flying with NVGs you also need something to attach them to. Helmets also have two built-in visors.
Scylla That is really an outsider opinion.
What exactly? If you really think a helmet is going to save you during a crash then I've got bad news for you... And when was the last time you saw a commercial airplane pilot wearing a helmet?
elf @6.13 and looks to be waiving today. looks like it was Sancho
Great way to get your points across
There were 3 people in this video. Simon, Mischa and the Elf on the mountain @6:13 !
Elf is at 6:13 with a wind sock
Great informative video and needed! Thanks! I got in a wind rotor a couple of weeks ago and lost 1k feet in about 2 seconds. Scared me to death as it rolled right and dropped. Training kicked in before I could even think. I put in aft cyclic and dropped collective a bit and just let it stabilize and slowly moved away from the area. 🤢🤢. Also I saw the elf at 8:18 on top of the mountain as you flew by.
Guaranteed Home, LLC wow that would have been super scary!
That is really good advice.
Excelente.
6:13 snow shovel
6:12...on the boards?
Great vlog
Hurray!!!
I won't die this time.
Thank you.
6:13 - ok, this one was pretty tricky :). No idea what he's carrying, though.
I see him at 6:13, but i cant see any good, on phone today.
Newbie here, so can this ONLY happen in 2-bladed helicopters? I know mast-bumping, yes, but the effects of turbulence and the solutions you provide here, is that universal for all helicopters or is it that once you start adding 3 or more blades the turbulence minimizes or maybe acts on the aircraft differently such that different maneuvers would need to be applied (and if so, what kinds)?
It's the semi-rigid rotor system, which just happens to have two blades, but not the problem. This system is on several helicopters and mast bumping is a possibility on all of them, just not as likely. The true culprit is weight.
The Robinsons are extremely light weight and as such the blades can easily lose their loading in a low-G movement, where as heavier aircraft keep weight pulling down on the blades, keeping them flapped up and out of the way.
Something I didn't hear mentioned but I wonder about. If turbulence induces a low G situation, wouldn't roll more likely be caused (and corrected) by tail rotor thrust or is that only really a factor on helicopters with a tailrotor mounted higher above the centerline of the boom?
Matt Stambaugh the main thing is to get the rotor loaded back up again. You need to gently use cyclic for that. Once you have the disk loaded again you and proceed to recover the aircraft with whatever is needed.
Thank you for the reply! I really appreciate the way you step away from some of the more "gross" instruction and dig into the subtlety. The order in which actions are taken being just as important as the actions themselves, the advice of very-high-hour instructors such as yourself legitimately has the potential to save a lot of headaches (and the occasional life).
Matt Stambaugh that’s great to hear. Thanks.
ELF shows up at 6:11 and waves... Directional finder... You are going, THAT WAY! HA, Ha, ha...
an aircraft that will literally separate and kill you when hitting turbulence ... how are they legal?
AT 6:13 THEY ARE FLYING PAST A MOUNTAIN AND THERE IS A PERSON JUST STANDING THERE. WAVING AT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there is the elf on the mountain freezing his butt at 6:12, wow guys, this one was a really hard one!
And if you can afford it get an autopilot it definitely helps control turbulence too
6:14 was he carrying a shovel? Haha
You say you have no control getting buffed up and down in turbulence, teach how to cancel that with collective and practice it and eventually you you get good at it and getting buffed up and down doesn't happen
Elf 6:13
On top of a mountain right before Heli banking right
I missed the elf again
The best way to fly a Robinson is in MS flight simulator.
Safely fly a Robinson? Not possible
turbulence is spelled incorrectly in the title
No thanks. I'd rather have a 3 rotor Cabri G2. Too many 2 blade mast bumps.