Please consider doing a video on SyberJet Aircraft, which is US business jet manufacturer. It's been reported since last year that it may be bought by a Turkish company or consortium, and as of this month news does indicate that it will go through. You may want to use Google Translate for recent sources.
I shall compliment on the deep research made for the subject. As someone who works in this industry allow me to make a few observations: 1- The decision to not use composite materials has more to do with technical issues rather than supply chain issues. This was publicized at the time through a technical paper on composites by some specialists at Mitsubishi. Carbon composite is not the panacea everybody seems to think when it comes to building strong lightweight structures. It makes sense on a large span structure like a Boeing 787 wings, but on a much smaller regional jet, geometric constraints becomes a hurdle. Smaller wings with ailerons, engines, winglets, flaps, slats, spoilers and fuselage junction all much closer to each other than on a larger airplane, makes it difficult to calculate load paths precisely, begging for more composite laminates to be applied to compensate for that uncertainty. In fact it is possible that with technologies of those days, a composite regional jet would weight almost the same as an aluminum one. Another reason to not use composite structures might be a commercial decision. Small regional jets are not operated just by large legacy airlines who have plenty of maintenance infra-structure with professionals trained on the latest technology. It is not uncommon for these jets to be operated by small local airline even in undeveloped countries without knowledge of how to fix a composite damage. 2- While it is very true supply issues posed an obstacle to Mitsubishi due to its lack of financial influence like those of Boeing or Airbus, this problem is very present for Bombardier and Embraer as well. One cannot use this as reason for its many program delays which were mainly lack of technical knowledge in certification. 3- Some people call it hubris, others call it lack of international perspective. Either way, in my opinion the directors at Mitsubishi should have hired much more foreign technical consultants at the program inception for lower cost rather than inflating at the end of the program. It is imperative for any aircraft manufacturer to have rapport with the certification authority from early stages to discuss how they intend to test and prove their product is safe. By 2016, Mitsubishi was in desperate mode having spent lots of money building an uncertifiable plane, and they would bleed much more money hiring lots of engineers who got laid off by Bombardier, to try to save it. Problem is those foreign engineers were not interested in concluding the project so fast in order to keep receiving top dollar salaries for as long as possible. Finally program managers at Mitsubishi made a crucial error in delegating many of the certification procedures to foreign parties without making the effort to learn themselves how to do it.
Outsourcing to foreign entities was needed. Mitsubishi was having lots of issues trying to run the certification out of Japan due to their location. You are correct in the that they needed to trust the foreigners much earlier on the program. I'm not sure I fully agree with you on foreigners dragging the program out. Many instances they were hamstrung by utterly baffling decisions by the Japanese superiors. The desire to have an all Japanese airplane really doomed them. Mitsubishi is an old and very powerful company, what they didn't realize is that the FAA doesn't play by the rules they are used when it comes to the Japanese aviation authorities.
Also another issue was the infighting occuing between MHI and MITAC. MHI would frequently pull talent, resources, change schedules or generally just make life difficult FOR MITAC for no real reason.
In short we can say US killed the plane not Japanese engineers or officials, ofc it's terrible name might have played a role as well😁 Because there was no way on Earth Japan could produce a cheap enough to compete aircraft with boeing parts and out sourcing many parts. They should just ditch those boeing parts including American engine and use Rolls-royce instead. Then carry most of the production (Expect composite ofc) to some country with cheap labour and good experience like Brazil or Turkey. Then ''Space jet'' would become the cheapest jet in it's class that western countries would buy...
I think the issue is that Mitsubishi went in too big all at once. Honda is taking a much smarter approach making small business and executive style aircraft and from there they can expand from a solid foundation. Companies like Embraer and Bombardier started small as well.
The vid describes how Mitsubishi could have succeeded thanks to existing Boeing network ties. Honda doesn't have those, and isn't a Heavy Industries company
This “wiring documentation” issue is typical of Japan’s mind-boggling reliance on paper and unscalable obscure internal processes. So many stories are circulating among expat engineers about “antiquated methodologies from the 1980s” that were actually newly formed in the last 5 years.
Basically exactly what one would expect to happen, if an antiquated organizational structure with outdated processes would try and develop a plane, happened. Airbus and Boeing have not only been on the forefronts of technology, but also organizational design to accommodate new technologies. Japan has great engineers, but seniority based management is almost always a bad idea in the modern world.
Great analysis. I really wondered what happened to that whole project. Just one thing, we don't call them "main wings" and "rear wings". It's just "wings"... that thing in the back is called the "horizontal stabilizer". That vertical one is called.. supprise, supprise... the "vertical stabilizer" or just "fin"...
This sounds like completely inept pre-planning for the project... I don't understand how they could so severely underestimate the development of a new airplane, and even more so the required supply-chain sourcing for that airplane. Did they just not do enough research and consultation??
I wouldn’t go as far as saying this is gross ineptitude, but any kind of mega project of this size can fail despite best practices. And choosing to develop indigenous capabilities in lieu of purchasing off the shelf piles further risks. I would say the project was overly ambitious to begin with, maybe they should have started with a smaller jet and later increased the stakes to large jets
One thing about Japanese companies is they try to design the best products in the world, thus very high cost and long delay to get the state of the art technology. I am not sure if it applies to this project. But If the top management was willing to accept more Boeing and foreign help, I am sure the Jet is already flying. The other thing is the company is too focus on the domestic market and forgot without FAA approval, pretty much no plane that can fly in most of the airspace.
This happened exactly with the FS-X project (Mitsubishi F-2). The entire Japanese industry really wanted to push their research with bonkers ideas that may or may not be feasible. Until one day the US gave them a reality check - the F-16 and F-18 already have what the Japanese wanted. After long compromises, the project ended up remaking the F-16 with F-18-like maritime capabilities, and nothing in common with other F-16s (it can't enjoy future F-16 upgrades). The project would've fared better if Japan simply opt for F-18 co-production.
Give me an example where this hasn't been the case for any significant industrial project - history is littered with projects launched with optimistic goals, timescales and costs.
I think Mitsubishi thought that the project would require approximately the same amount of effort as a military transport aircraft (on which they have experience) or a little more, and forgot the economics, supply chain and certification issues that come with a mass produced commercial jet.
Wish the best for MHI. I’m an aerospace engineering student in Montreal and we know that they acquired our CRJ program primarily because MRJ was struggling. Hope CRJ can bring them a better future.
@@pw4780 Thanks! I must say though ,Hearing such , they have advanced and grown a lot since then , Its not easy to rebuild a company after going through something like that .
I worked for Honda a long time ago and let me tell you, I was hoping since 2006 when Mitsubishi announced this program that they would succeed. We need new competition besides Boeing in this world. I like to see Japanese companies get more success.
The bottom line, is they didn't have the internal capability to manage such a project. They are better off being a supplier rather than trying to design and build and aircraft from the ground up.
They should have engaged foreign engineers (as some official said) at the outset and admin/technical staff familiar with aircraft certification especially if performed in another country. It is a pity their goal wasn't achieved after so much effort.
This happens with so many Japanese projects. They have so much pride that they waste huge amounts before grudgingly allowing foreign experts in and then still try to marginalize them. However, Japan wouldn’t be one of the few truly unique, non-homogenized countries, if it weren’t for this.
@@The_ZeroLine Japan is a homogenised country. 98% of Japan’s population is Japanese. Also, so-called “Japanese exceptionalism” is interesting to me. There are many non-Japanese people who tend to have a rose-tinted view on Japanese society, which is far from reality. Anyway, I guess they’re not the only country to have this global perception.
At 3:58: MITI: Ministry of International Trade and Industry. There's no "economy" in there, nor in the Japanese original, 通商産業省, Tsūshō-sangyō-shō, more usually Tsū-san-shō. (But your whole Asianometry series is really fine work. I wouldn't bother to mail in a correction unless you were worth it. Congratulations and thank you.)
The MRJ really tried to combine the best of CRJ (of Canada's Bombardier) and E-Jets (of Brazil's Embraer). E-Jets has "stacked double bubble" fuselage design, allowing passengers to stand upright in the cabin, and male passenger to stand comfortably while peeing in the lavatory. The lower half of the bubble left enough room for under floor cargo hold. The drawback is of course, the bigger fuselage area footprint, meaning greater form drag, resulting fuel efficiency penalty. Airlines however, could still recover some revenue by utilising the ample cargo space for extra revenue. CRJ has a very slim fuselage, initially intended for private jet cabin (Bombardier Challenger series). The cabin is very cramped, but its smaller fuselage frontal area, makes it more fuel efficient. The drawback is of course, there is not enough underfloor let alone overhead baggage space, so, they have to utilise a chunk of the rear aft section of the aircraft. MRJ has CRJ's slightly modified single bubble fuselage (leaving no underfloor cargo space), but tall enough like the E-jets for passengers to stand in the cabin. The baggage hold is to the rear of the aircraft, just like the CRJ. They aim to get E-jet's pasenger satisfaction while getting airline's approval for CRJ's fuel efficiency. The major problem is of course with the material and electronics that discussed in this video. Boeing struggled massively with 787, its first composite-majority plane. It was delayed for 3 years, and still experiencing delivery delays due to production problem to this day. Airbus is also experiencing paint and coating problem with its sophisticated Airbus A350 (something that Boeing 787 also experienced in lesser degree - at least for Air New Zealand) thanks to some problems with its composite material too. The new Chinese COMAC C919 has to let go quite a lot of composite parts, and gets quite a weight penalty as a result, it couldn't get further than 5,000 km unlike its contemporary rivals. Mitsubishi definitely choose the very ambitious undertaking indeed. Embraer already had a headstart with its E-Jets, and now struggling with its E-Jets E2 iteration, because most of its E-Jets are still brand new and turns out to be quite reliable no airline is seeking replacement yet. Bombardier regional jets went bankrupt over its CS-series, despite government subsidy, and the program was sold to Airbus, rebranded as A220. The CRJ program was sold to Mitsubishi, and the Dash-8Q400 series back to DeHavilland Canada.
yes this thing was stuck in bureaucratic regulatory nightmare. So this thing will never really fly. But then the same regulatory board allowed the 737 Max to certify and fly so it makes you wonder....
@@byloyuripka9624 really love the creations Bombardier has done so far, wish Airbus and Boeing would create new narrow body instead of rehashing their old 737 and 320 series
Talking Mitsubishi Aviation, there was no mention of the MU2 turboprop, or the Mitsubishi Diamond executive jet, each having their own successes and problems. It's hard to imagine a venture that large could fail, and the pandemic didn't help. Probably a good idea to keep all the executives away from sharp objects...
Its crazy to think that in the aviation industry, China outdid Japan. But the lack of documentation at such a big company is very hard to stomach, given that even student design clubs insist on sufficient documentation. One can only imagine how broken the program management must have been. This has parallels with the Saturn V not having welding documentation because the welders simply had no time to do so.
Well, China hasn’t outdone Japan yet. So far they have simply survived longer. China still isn’t manufacturing any aircraft. It will be interesting to see if they can make it work
I do hope that the issues at Mitsubishi will improve sooner rather than later, and that the MRJ will finally fly once more; wishing you guys at Mitsubishi the best that you'll be having your problems resolved soon.
Along with India or Indian engineers/scientists... Mitsubishi can cut cost in labour & no compromise on quality...also big market in India ..as well export base....For all future technology in aircraft India seems to be a perfect Country
Sounds a lot like Mitsubishi management went into this not knowing what they didn’t know. If they understand how much they needed to get up to speed on modern aircraft development they could have piloted with a much smaller aircraft, got their design systems sorted out developing that and then gone full scale.
The windows on the YS-11 were so low I remember having to bend down in my seat to look out horizontally, and that's from someone slightly under 6 feet tall.
"A million parts," (in a plane) "three times more than in a commercial car" is surely incorrect. Lee Iacocca famously claimed that he had taken the number of parts in a Chrysler down from 6,000 to 3,000. This is an approximation, obviously -- but it's a hundred times less than a third of a million.
Lee Iacocca and his like were famously worshipped in the American car industry. In the end, they did nothing to save the American big three from more efficient cars and factories coming from Japan. Lee Iacocca was quite good in raising money to save Chrysler though. While producing the K-car.
The narrow body twin engine aircraft market is very crowded. Bombardier themselves almost fell foul of it with their offering (Now the airbus A220.). I remember saying at least 10 years ago, when I worked at Rolls Royce, that I couldn't see all of these programs working out. I am not surprised Mitsubishi failed.
When the project was started the aircraft envisaged was already too small. A regional airliner needs to be 80-120 people. Be quick to load and unload, quick and easy to clean, not burn too much fuel, have HUGE lockers and not weigh too much. Low take-off and landing speeds really help. High cruise speed is not important but good airbrakes are. At six to eight flights a day a few cheeky, short visual approaches saves tens of thousands every day. This elegant aircraft had none of these attributes.
Quite the opposite. It was too big. Due to scope clauses none of the US regionals were able to operate it. They were banking on scope being relaxed (among other things) but it never materialized
This video could be used in a Project Management class on Project Tolerances, Risk Management, Change Management.. Mitsubishi started out with a very tight project envelope with regards to the timeline and various design parameters, leaving itself virtually no time budget allowance to address the many design changes.
I always find it amazing that different countries’ product designs, from food packaging to jets, always retain a distinctive style with Japan’s the most distinctive IMO. I loved living in Japan because I always found their aesthetic deeply beautiful.
Very informative video, thanks. Such a shame, as Japan has built some beautiful planes recently, mainly from Kawasaki and HondaJet, so I was really excited about MRJ, hoping it could compete with CRJ and ERJ. As Japan's also trying to compete with ARJ, I can't help wondering why they don't merge their aerospace businesses. Given their expertise with 787s and F-15/16s etc, it feels as though there's something really holding the Japanese aviation sector back. To fully compete with Comac/Craic, how about an East Asian Airbus-type company, bringing together the commercial aviation sectors in Japan with S.Korea & Indonesia? Whatever they do, even without MRJ, Japan's still doing well in aviation, and I wish them all the best of luck.
In early 2000's former Embraer president Maurício Botelho, said: "I would not like to be be in their positions. When they arrive we will already be established in the market
Great video as usual. Keep up the good work! I love watching these. If a TH-camr as a job doesn't work out, I'm sure those guys at Bain and McKinsey will be fighting to hire you as a researcher or consultant!
You sorta undersold the gravity of the weight issue. They were going to have some of us Aerospace people here in Dallas and Ft Worth Texas help get the weight down very late in the development so that SkyWest could even consider buying them. SkyWest would happily have only outfitted them with 90 seats, but the weight was over the major airlines union limits. So unless they renegotiated for the smaller airframe that was planned a huge redesign to get weight out with the help of Triumph Aerostructures was going to be necessary.
Having a union contract specify strict maximum weights sounds ridiculous. A plane that is 10% over some arbitrary number is not breaking some natural limit, it's all just lawyerese useless detailing.
@@georgegonzalez2476 yep... that's a lot of why I felt compelled to comment. The big airline unions don't want smaller feeder/contracted out airlines doing commuter type legs to also be able to fly the larger jets like 737, so just use some weight they see as 737 class to pull that off and basically ban a contacted carrier from operating such a vehicle under contract for their bigger airline employer. Realistically it'd probably be smartest now for all big airlines to have contractors fly all their flights and just fire all their pilots...haha.
No jokes about the Mitsubishi Zero here? Never forget the Battle of Chongqing a.k.a. Bombing of Chungking where the Imperial Japanese Navy had gained air superiority against the Chinese Air Force in 1940, and gave the Japanese (Navy especially) full confidence in embarking on 'OPERATION Z' (a.k.a. Pearl Harbor attack mission); incredibly, despite all the intelligence the US military had available from the WWII airwar warfront in China, the Americans were completely taken by the surprise with the Japanese air superiority fighter aircraft and veteran skills of its crews... the Anglo-Saxon powers were too much in itself with Germany's own "Battle of Chungking" a.k.a. Battle of Britain at the Western front and Russia at the Eastern front... where Soviets had pulled all of its resources away from Generalissimo Chiang for the attention against Nazi Germany - while the USA very belatedly stepped in with the Lend-Lease Act for Chiang in May of 1941... four years after the Nanking Massacre...
With all it's advantages is scale and access, I cant help but think, specially when compared to it's Chinese example, that Mitsubishi's problem was the age old Japanese drawback of ''communal'' corporate thinking, and the subservantance of individual solutions. As evidence why the Chinese got to market earlier.
Japanese companies are not very trusting of foreign engineers and talents. They are too trusting of their own Japanese minds and ways, the rest of the world are not as good as them is really how the traditional corporate world works. Having worked for a Japanese company in Japan myself made me realize this. It's both good and bad at the same time that the traditional Japanese way of thinking is very conservative. In short, close-minded. Everything about Mitsubishi's attempt and failure to make their own commercial regional airplane speaks exactly on what's wrong with traditional Japanese corporate culture. Mind you, they did the documentation but its all in Japanese and the engineers who did the wiring on this could not convert the design language into English or other languages because they believe Japanese design is good enough so they skipped having to get a detailed real time translation of the design thinking they would pass certification without. Too bad
Amazing history...I always hate to see an airline go bust. At the same time there seems to be always a group of people to rework the finances for a start up. I wish all airline industries have the vision to keep it going. Thanks
What a sad irony - Mitsubishi was developing this rival to the CRJ, and it would have had a cabin wider than even the E-Jet. Now all they have is the narrow CRJ 😐 14:47 if the SpaceJet succeeded, it would most likely face issues with its Geared Turbofans, but the airframe would have been awesome!
Excellent report as always. But it is incorrect to compare the Spacejet development time to China ARJ-21. The Spacejet simply use the P&W engine, drastically cut development cost. The ARJ-21 use China own engine, which require huge development time and cost. The ARJ-21 also experienced major redesign challenge, thus delay. But in the end Comac finally solved all problems and got its bird into serial productions. Both a steep learning experience.
Seems like a problem of systemic complexity. Civil engineering is complex, but there are fewer supercomplex technologies. It’s easier for management to under all the parts involved. Whereas in aviation, there are dozens of little niche pieces which are far too complex for the project leadership to even know about until it’s delaying the project
I had wondered for long what happened to the MRJ which was unveiled with much fanfare. It is actually very puzzling that a major heavy inductrial and high technology power-house like Japan had no aerospace industry of its own, whereas even Brazil has a major company like Embraer, although Brazil is never considered even close to Japan as far as technological development is considered. What is even more astonishing is that Mitsubishi flunked its entire MRJ project due to sloppy planning and execution, something one would normally never associate with the Japanese, who are famous for their efficiency and meticulous planning. This entire episode serves as an eye-opener, and shows that things are not always necesarily what they seem to be.
With this vídeo i understand why Tesla need it 80% of vertical integration of their partes and why always is needed to document how You develop your process as engineer (as deadly tedious as this sounds). If not this are the results.
Mitsubishi bought a part of Bombardier, specifically their regional jet division - CRJ aircraft? How will that affect things, now that they own another designs doing exactly what they wanted. Will they focus on the CRJ and try to move more of the supply chain to Japan? Use Bombardier's engineers to finish the Space Jet? Will they ever use the technology they designed for the Space Jet?
This ia a sad story. I wish Mitsubishi the best of luck in their future involvement of aircraft production. They deserve a break after all that hard work. I simply love my 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and believe that company has so much potential in any area of technology for manufacturing. I just know they will be flying someday! 🤗
aftet this break, does Japan still has enough money and time to cacth up with Airubus and Boeing? it will be a serious question, meanwhile China 's C919 has just been successfully tested, Japan is losing in more and more high-tech industrial fields, such as chips, smartphones, civil drones... even their automobile industrial is facing challenge from China, if Japan keep losing market share, they will not have enough money to invest in the future :s
It seems that there are operatives among the bureaucrats in the Japan. In particular, the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of the Environment. Will you continue to research and develop for 15 years and then accept "yes I give up"? If you couldn't get the "type certificate", you should clearly explain why you couldn't. It doesn't seem to be for technical reasons. Kawasaki Heavy Industries' P1 patrol aircraft and ShinMaywa's large flying boats also fly magnificently. Large flying boats of the Maritime Self-Defense Force can land on the surface of the sea with high waves. As for the strength of the aircraft, it is considered that there is no problem with the technical capabilities of Japan. Why not use a supercomputer for the comprehensive structural calculation of the MRJ? "Kei" and "Fugaku" are not decorations, are they? This issue should never be fooled. The future of our aircraft industry is at stake. You should try again no matter what anyone says. We shouldn't give up. I'm not asking you to build a "time machine." It's an airplane made by people. Nothing is impossible.
Ten years work and $9 Billion for a region jet program development with nothing to show for it. $9 Billon could've bought a fleet of Airbus A220s and Embrear E-Jets.
Not a single dime was really wasted on this crap. Cause it kept the company's stocks artificially high for too long. You can bet the ones in the know took their cash with them.
I appreciate the video but there are a few mistakes. 1- you said RJs help connect passengers to “large hub and spoke airports” but you meant to say hub. The spokes are the smaller mostly regional airports. You could have said connecting smaller spokes to larger hubs. “Spokes” are more likely towns of say 5k people to maybe around 100k people, while hubs generally tend to be in the million plus range for the metropolitan areas. 2-you enthroned Sukhoi superjet and the comac providing competition to the large RJ manufacturers. That isn’t realistically true. Both of those companies have very few airplanes in the sky. About 200 total flying aircraft last time I checked, with orders coming primarily from China and poorer African and SE Asian countries. As a comparison, SkyWest, a single regional airline in the US operates about 300 CRJs alone and another 200 ERJs. So one airline has about double the fleet of the total comac and sukhoi superjets. Not really any sort of competition. 3- I wish you had gone into some specifics as to how this 100pax max would have competed with a 737 or rather replaced it with some airlines. Given the fact that the 737 is not a regional jet. Although I understand that ANA specifically does offer quite short routes using the 737, some of the routes (I’m guessing) are profitable using a larger aircraft that is full (meaning say 150-200pax) but it could be less profitable increasing service using 2 planes or dividing the single flight into 2 separate flights. Either way it would’ve been helpful to understand. Otherwise I think this was interesting. I remember following this for a while before all news disappeared. Would’ve been great to see this as part of SkyWest’s fleet.
It was not a technology failure. The plane is already certified with only the FAA certification pending. It was much rather a commercial and financial failure, cos the cost could never be recouped. The Covid event really landed a devastating blow too. They concluded that the market was simply not there to justify ongoing cost. I think the real error of Mitsubishi is that they spent too many years constantly changing scope and design objective. They also failed terribly in the area of project management. They felt they could not succeed unless they penetrated the American market. This means they need FAA Certification. I am totally convinced that MRJ will still launch in future. How do I know?? Mitsubishi bought Bombardiers CRJ program and ended it. In so doing, they are creating a future climate for pent up demand. Unsurprisingly, Embraer has also suspended development of its E2-175 jet. The scope clause is so unsure right now that the two manufacturers will rather wait.
I enjoyed this video. I don't remember much of the details anymore, but Japan tried developing something in the 737 class back in the 60s. It was a disaster
Sounds like the main problem was overreliance on the US. China is producing for its own market and as COMAC is state owned they are more well coordinated within the system. Chinese airlines are certain to place orders and unions are not an issue. Also the Chinese coast guard would never buy a foreign plane if a domestic option is available. Japan should dare to act like China, just as Japan Inc did in the 1980s.
Forcing private companies to buy from a domestic supplier instead of a supplier of their choice sounds like communism. This may work in China PRC but not in Japan or other nations with highly developed free-market economies. From the story even Japan's coast guard did not choose the MRJ, favouring instead a foreign airplane maker.
It boggles me why Mitsubishi planned production in Malaysia. Where significant flights and abundant resources are next-door in Indonesia. Indonesia hasthe 4th busiest air flight traffic in the world and is a competitor in every aspect to Malaysia. Indonesia also has an established airplane industry the Malaysian lacks. Surely it didn't end up well.
Probably bribery. Malaysia slipped someone some money and Mitsubishi overlooks an obvious "domestic market" for a tiny one that wouldn't do much good for the program
"Indonesia also has an established airplane industry the Malaysian lacks" Sorry but this is where most people are dead wrong. 70 percent of Indonesian parts and MRO contracts are still done by neighbors, in case if you aren't aware. Malaysia has a lot of parts suppliers and MRO facilities. They may lack the market size compared to Indonesia, and might not be interested making locally-designed aircraft.. but they produce top notch parts, MRO customers flock to them for developmental upgrades and so the overall ecosystem might be more favorable. The same reason why Malaysian automotive industry still survives. They do things from the lowly Alouette copter all the way to A400M and F-18s. Customers ranging from private owners all the way to USAF and USMC. No one would be crazy enough to MRO their own Flanker with nonexistent Russian documentations but there they are. They somewhat tackled the low-levels and that is way more important than trying to compete in aircraft-making, which is an incredibly saturated market.
It makes comac continued existence really admirable. Despite trade war restrictions and having a very saturated market for regional jet, they can survive with their own local market alone.
Sadly Trans States is no longer operating. No doubt the current manufacturers will not tolerate a new model in the market no matter the merits of the design.
Compliments to the deep investigation. When one knocks on the door of the certification authorities at the end of the design/1st. proto/demonstrator, you are 20 years late!. A plane should be designed with certification in mind from the very beginning on. The engineering and documentation processes should be designed too. I don't think Mitsubishi is too little to cope the challenges. It' s a culture and management problem. Look at Embrear which is doeing well. Not long ago Embrear was a state owned military supplier too.
In other words: monopoly and competition from other manufactures are stiff and Japanese underestimate how hard is to make competitive commercial planes
Most likely if Japan dedicate their time in developing airplanes to say Toyota starts up, soon in a few years if Toyota makes airplanes Boeing becomes the next Fokker!
@@wengwong2650 The earth is round yet, to say two 737 MAX planes crash and Boeing is a US based company, the reason why Europe’s Airbus eats Boeing’s lunch the only way that South Korea competes is that their airplanes will be made by a European company other than that Japan could do it by their own. Either way for COMAC, is just in China the EASA and FAA needs approval to be safe to fly everywhere else other than that they give more chance to a Japanese competitor than COMAC to be approved.
If Japan wanted a commercial jet: "Hey, Toyota, can you build me a commercial jet?" "How big and when do you want it?" "Eighty seats." "Good, give us a year." "Gotcha"
Reminds me a bit of the F-2 program which had an enormous amount of delays and cost overruns despite the partnership with Lockheed Martin. And the resulting aircraft is so expensive to operate they are already looking to replace it. They've had a lot more success working with Boeing as a contractor for the Dreamliner. They are the sole contractor for the composite wings, and have an enormous dedicated factory- one of the largest in Japan- for this purpose.
Check out other videos on Japan here: th-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76RTpIBp5WGyun3Nn85sQxLK.html
bruh make more tsmc videos. I want to see next gen chips and that can give me unlimited fps in games
Make a video on HAL Tejas LCA
How come the Close Association with American Airlines Industry didn't work for Mitsubishi Plane ? How about Collaboration With Airbus of Europe ?
You seem to have an anti Asian mindset
Please consider doing a video on SyberJet Aircraft, which is US business jet manufacturer. It's been reported since last year that it may be bought by a Turkish company or consortium, and as of this month news does indicate that it will go through. You may want to use Google Translate for recent sources.
I shall compliment on the deep research made for the subject. As someone who works in this industry allow me to make a few observations:
1- The decision to not use composite materials has more to do with technical issues rather than supply chain issues. This was publicized at the time through a technical paper on composites by some specialists at Mitsubishi.
Carbon composite is not the panacea everybody seems to think when it comes to building strong lightweight structures. It makes sense on a large span structure like a Boeing 787 wings, but on a much smaller regional jet, geometric constraints becomes a hurdle. Smaller wings with ailerons, engines, winglets, flaps, slats, spoilers and fuselage junction all much closer to each other than on a larger airplane, makes it difficult to calculate load paths precisely, begging for more composite laminates to be applied to compensate for that uncertainty. In fact it is possible that with technologies of those days, a composite regional jet would weight almost the same as an aluminum one.
Another reason to not use composite structures might be a commercial decision. Small regional jets are not operated just by large legacy airlines who have plenty of maintenance infra-structure with professionals trained on the latest technology. It is not uncommon for these jets to be operated by small local airline even in undeveloped countries without knowledge of how to fix a composite damage.
2- While it is very true supply issues posed an obstacle to Mitsubishi due to its lack of financial influence like those of Boeing or Airbus, this problem is very present for Bombardier and Embraer as well. One cannot use this as reason for its many program delays which were mainly lack of technical knowledge in certification.
3- Some people call it hubris, others call it lack of international perspective. Either way, in my opinion the directors at Mitsubishi should have hired much more foreign technical consultants at the program inception for lower cost rather than inflating at the end of the program. It is imperative for any aircraft manufacturer to have rapport with the certification authority from early stages to discuss how they intend to test and prove their product is safe. By 2016, Mitsubishi was in desperate mode having spent lots of money building an uncertifiable plane, and they would bleed much more money hiring lots of engineers who got laid off by Bombardier, to try to save it. Problem is those foreign engineers were not interested in concluding the project so fast in order to keep receiving top dollar salaries for as long as possible. Finally program managers at Mitsubishi made a crucial error in delegating many of the certification procedures to foreign parties without making the effort to learn themselves how to do it.
OK you win, nobody can counter your comment.
It's really sad to see how it all ended. I had high hopes when I first heard of this project
The last 3 years haven't been kind to aircraft sales either. There are still thousands of aircraft parked in the desert.
Outsourcing to foreign entities was needed. Mitsubishi was having lots of issues trying to run the certification out of Japan due to their location. You are correct in the that they needed to trust the foreigners much earlier on the program. I'm not sure I fully agree with you on foreigners dragging the program out. Many instances they were hamstrung by utterly baffling decisions by the Japanese superiors. The desire to have an all Japanese airplane really doomed them. Mitsubishi is an old and very powerful company, what they didn't realize is that the FAA doesn't play by the rules they are used when it comes to the Japanese aviation authorities.
Also another issue was the infighting occuing between MHI and MITAC. MHI would frequently pull talent, resources, change schedules or generally just make life difficult FOR MITAC for no real reason.
Imagine how frustrating it feels to work for a aircraft program, invest 15 years of your life for something that will never sell.
At least they got paid lol
In short we can say US killed the plane not Japanese engineers or officials, ofc it's terrible name might have played a role as well😁
Because there was no way on Earth Japan could produce a cheap enough to compete aircraft with boeing parts and out sourcing many parts. They should just ditch those boeing parts including American engine and use Rolls-royce instead. Then carry most of the production (Expect composite ofc) to some country with cheap labour and good experience like Brazil or Turkey. Then ''Space jet'' would become the cheapest jet in it's class that western countries would buy...
@@ggoddkkiller1342 wasn't Mitsubishi already make Boeing doors at Vietnam?
Imagine how SLS engineers feels
@@ggoddkkiller1342 yes, make that in indonesia, it will be very cheap
I think the issue is that Mitsubishi went in too big all at once. Honda is taking a much smarter approach making small business and executive style aircraft and from there they can expand from a solid foundation. Companies like Embraer and Bombardier started small as well.
The vid describes how Mitsubishi could have succeeded thanks to existing Boeing network ties. Honda doesn't have those, and isn't a Heavy Industries company
@@hobog Supply chain and documentation killed it
Airbus started BIG however, and succeeded enormously.
@@turbopumped6490 airbus is conglomerate of smaller manufacturers. These smaller companies all started small.
It not like this was there first plane. But it has been awhile since that one. And this was quite a bit bigger.
This “wiring documentation” issue is typical of Japan’s mind-boggling reliance on paper and unscalable obscure internal processes. So many stories are circulating among expat engineers about “antiquated methodologies from the 1980s” that were actually newly formed in the last 5 years.
Basically exactly what one would expect to happen, if an antiquated organizational structure with outdated processes would try and develop a plane, happened. Airbus and Boeing have not only been on the forefronts of technology, but also organizational design to accommodate new technologies. Japan has great engineers, but seniority based management is almost always a bad idea in the modern world.
@@nekoJens
Are you smoking crack? Boeing is a hot mess. No way 797 is going to happen.
What are expat engineers?
@@nekoJens great remark
@@ratulxy
Engineers that live out of country?
Great analysis. I really wondered what happened to that whole project. Just one thing, we don't call them "main wings" and "rear wings". It's just "wings"... that thing in the back is called the "horizontal stabilizer". That vertical one is called.. supprise, supprise... the "vertical stabilizer" or just "fin"...
Wings, stabs, & tail for short.
The landing gear are "bottom wings"
And steering column are "inner wings"
Given that the horizontal stab actually produces negative lift calling them wings seems even more peculiar
Really good video and analysis. Thank you for producing it.
you are cranking out fantastic content.
This sounds like completely inept pre-planning for the project... I don't understand how they could so severely underestimate the development of a new airplane, and even more so the required supply-chain sourcing for that airplane. Did they just not do enough research and consultation??
I wouldn’t go as far as saying this is gross ineptitude, but any kind of mega project of this size can fail despite best practices. And choosing to develop indigenous capabilities in lieu of purchasing off the shelf piles further risks.
I would say the project was overly ambitious to begin with, maybe they should have started with a smaller jet and later increased the stakes to large jets
One thing about Japanese companies is they try to design the best products in the world, thus very high cost and long delay to get the state of the art technology. I am not sure if it applies to this project. But If the top management was willing to accept more Boeing and foreign help, I am sure the Jet is already flying. The other thing is the company is too focus on the domestic market and forgot without FAA approval, pretty much no plane that can fly in most of the airspace.
This happened exactly with the FS-X project (Mitsubishi F-2). The entire Japanese industry really wanted to push their research with bonkers ideas that may or may not be feasible. Until one day the US gave them a reality check - the F-16 and F-18 already have what the Japanese wanted. After long compromises, the project ended up remaking the F-16 with F-18-like maritime capabilities, and nothing in common with other F-16s (it can't enjoy future F-16 upgrades). The project would've fared better if Japan simply opt for F-18 co-production.
Give me an example where this hasn't been the case for any significant industrial project - history is littered with projects launched with optimistic goals, timescales and costs.
I think Mitsubishi thought that the project would require approximately the same amount of effort as a military transport aircraft (on which they have experience) or a little more, and forgot the economics, supply chain and certification issues that come with a mass produced commercial jet.
Your channel is gem. I love the lithography part.
Wish the best for MHI. I’m an aerospace engineering student in Montreal and we know that they acquired our CRJ program primarily because MRJ was struggling. Hope CRJ can bring them a better future.
Basically, they just bought the CRJ program for support revenue of existing units. It's not even being produced anymore.
the CRJ program is the worst it's ever been. Customer support is bad!
Hopefully Mitsu can do better, Embraer has been eating Bombardier's lunch. The CRJunks have sucked to work on in general
Mitsubishi killed CRJ production as soon as they got it. They’re just providing support for existing units.
@@alanb.4660 what???
What a shame. Such a beautiful machine. The wiring debacle just blows my mind. Great video!
Excellent. Love all your videos! Your narration is great.
I wish this company best of luck they suffered enough and they need a huge break now, good luck guys all the best👍
How did they suffer? What happen to Mirsubishi?
@@zahkam7322 The US nuked their factory in Nagasaki in 1945.
@@pw4780 Thanks! I must say though ,Hearing such , they have advanced and grown a lot since then , Its not easy to rebuild a company after going through something like that .
@@pw4780
Remember the 6,000,000 who died.
Never forget.
Never again.
@@greggstrasser5791 I mostly think of the US soldiers killed by Japan, and the thousands saved by our nuclear weapons.
I worked for Honda a long time ago and let me tell you, I was hoping since 2006 when Mitsubishi announced this program that they would succeed. We need new competition besides Boeing in this world. I like to see Japanese companies get more success.
Airbus first Boeing second!😆😆Mitsubishi ??????????????????????????? zero!
Wow great research bro.
The bottom line, is they didn't have the internal capability to manage such a project. They are better off being a supplier rather than trying to design and build and aircraft from the ground up.
They should have engaged foreign engineers (as some official said) at the outset and admin/technical staff familiar with aircraft certification especially if performed in another country. It is a pity their goal wasn't achieved after so much effort.
This happens with so many Japanese projects. They have so much pride that they waste huge amounts before grudgingly allowing foreign experts in and then still try to marginalize them. However, Japan wouldn’t be one of the few truly unique, non-homogenized countries, if it weren’t for this.
@@The_ZeroLine Glad you mentioned the latter part; Its a price worth paying. Europe and America should take note of this.
@@The_ZeroLine Japan is a homogenised country. 98% of Japan’s population is Japanese.
Also, so-called “Japanese exceptionalism” is interesting to me. There are many non-Japanese people who tend to have a rose-tinted view on Japanese society, which is far from reality.
Anyway, I guess they’re not the only country to have this global perception.
At 3:58: MITI: Ministry of International Trade and Industry. There's no "economy" in there, nor in the Japanese original, 通商産業省, Tsūshō-sangyō-shō, more usually Tsū-san-shō.
(But your whole Asianometry series is really fine work. I wouldn't bother to mail in a correction unless you were worth it. Congratulations and thank you.)
The MRJ really tried to combine the best of CRJ (of Canada's Bombardier) and E-Jets (of Brazil's Embraer).
E-Jets has "stacked double bubble" fuselage design, allowing passengers to stand upright in the cabin, and male passenger to stand comfortably while peeing in the lavatory. The lower half of the bubble left enough room for under floor cargo hold. The drawback is of course, the bigger fuselage area footprint, meaning greater form drag, resulting fuel efficiency penalty. Airlines however, could still recover some revenue by utilising the ample cargo space for extra revenue.
CRJ has a very slim fuselage, initially intended for private jet cabin (Bombardier Challenger series). The cabin is very cramped, but its smaller fuselage frontal area, makes it more fuel efficient. The drawback is of course, there is not enough underfloor let alone overhead baggage space, so, they have to utilise a chunk of the rear aft section of the aircraft.
MRJ has CRJ's slightly modified single bubble fuselage (leaving no underfloor cargo space), but tall enough like the E-jets for passengers to stand in the cabin. The baggage hold is to the rear of the aircraft, just like the CRJ. They aim to get E-jet's pasenger satisfaction while getting airline's approval for CRJ's fuel efficiency.
The major problem is of course with the material and electronics that discussed in this video. Boeing struggled massively with 787, its first composite-majority plane. It was delayed for 3 years, and still experiencing delivery delays due to production problem to this day. Airbus is also experiencing paint and coating problem with its sophisticated Airbus A350 (something that Boeing 787 also experienced in lesser degree - at least for Air New Zealand) thanks to some problems with its composite material too. The new Chinese COMAC C919 has to let go quite a lot of composite parts, and gets quite a weight penalty as a result, it couldn't get further than 5,000 km unlike its contemporary rivals.
Mitsubishi definitely choose the very ambitious undertaking indeed. Embraer already had a headstart with its E-Jets, and now struggling with its E-Jets E2 iteration, because most of its E-Jets are still brand new and turns out to be quite reliable no airline is seeking replacement yet. Bombardier regional jets went bankrupt over its CS-series, despite government subsidy, and the program was sold to Airbus, rebranded as A220. The CRJ program was sold to Mitsubishi, and the Dash-8Q400 series back to DeHavilland Canada.
This was a great informative video.. Thanks again
yes this thing was stuck in bureaucratic regulatory nightmare. So this thing will never really fly. But then the same regulatory board allowed the 737 Max to certify and fly so it makes you wonder....
Well, the Max was certified by Boeing employees. Mitsubishi, being new to the market most likely does not have that capability.
such a beautuful plane and it will not be used by airlines.Never saw a more good looking regional jet than the Mitsubishi
Cs110/a220 is aesthetic and aural champ bruh fight me
@@byloyuripka9624 really love the creations Bombardier has done so far, wish Airbus and Boeing would create new narrow body instead of rehashing their old 737 and 320 series
Good one as always John! :D
Talking Mitsubishi Aviation, there was no mention of the MU2 turboprop, or the Mitsubishi Diamond executive jet, each having their own successes and problems.
It's hard to imagine a venture that large could fail, and the pandemic didn't help.
Probably a good idea to keep all the executives away from sharp objects...
Nice aircraft.
Beautifully reviewed ..... as usual
Its crazy to think that in the aviation industry, China outdid Japan. But the lack of documentation at such a big company is very hard to stomach, given that even student design clubs insist on sufficient documentation. One can only imagine how broken the program management must have been. This has parallels with the Saturn V not having welding documentation because the welders simply had no time to do so.
Well, China hasn’t outdone Japan yet. So far they have simply survived longer. China still isn’t manufacturing any aircraft. It will be interesting to see if they can make it work
The most surprising is Brazil outdid China and Japan
@@kaixiang5390 China developed several fighter jets.
@@kaixiang5390 Well 8 months have passed by, would you rethink your position?
@@kaixiang5390 u two are so funny!
I do hope that the issues at Mitsubishi will improve sooner rather than later, and that the MRJ will finally fly once more; wishing you guys at Mitsubishi the best that you'll be having your problems resolved soon.
Along with India or Indian engineers/scientists... Mitsubishi can cut cost in labour & no compromise on quality...also big market in India ..as well export base....For all future technology in aircraft India seems to be a perfect Country
it will be hard, especially when their Chinese neighbor.has.just successfully test their C919 plane, Japan has amost no chance yo catch up,
After seeing this, I think a video about Embraer would be interesting.
Sounds a lot like Mitsubishi management went into this not knowing what they didn’t know. If they understand how much they needed to get up to speed on modern aircraft development they could have piloted with a much smaller aircraft, got their design systems sorted out developing that and then gone full scale.
The windows on the YS-11 were so low I remember having to bend down in my seat to look out horizontally, and that's from someone slightly under 6 feet tall.
"A million parts," (in a plane) "three times more than in a commercial car" is surely incorrect. Lee Iacocca famously claimed that he had taken the number of parts in a Chrysler down from 6,000 to 3,000. This is an approximation, obviously -- but it's a hundred times less than a third of a million.
I suspect that is all down to how "part" is defined.
@@fredknox2781 : Exactly what I was thinking.
@@cuchidesoto2686
You can assemble a car in a day, it takes much longer to build all the parts
Lee Iacocca and his like were famously worshipped in the American car industry. In the end, they did nothing to save the American big three from more efficient cars and factories coming from Japan. Lee Iacocca was quite good in raising money to save Chrysler though. While producing the K-car.
COMAC a competitor?!? That’s a laugh. Have they sold any outside of China or is it still “in development”?
Are you sure? th-cam.com/video/qzFWvXeLbaE/w-d-xo.html
ARJ-21 now has been exported to other countries.
ARJ-21 entered service in 2015.
Odyssey it was. Very informative. Thank you
The narrow body twin engine aircraft market is very crowded. Bombardier themselves almost fell foul of it with their offering (Now the airbus A220.). I remember saying at least 10 years ago, when I worked at Rolls Royce, that I couldn't see all of these programs working out. I am not surprised Mitsubishi failed.
When the project was started the aircraft envisaged was already too small. A regional airliner needs to be 80-120 people. Be quick to load and unload, quick and easy to clean, not burn too much fuel, have HUGE lockers and not weigh too much. Low take-off and landing speeds really help. High cruise speed is not important but good airbrakes are. At six to eight flights a day a few cheeky, short visual approaches saves tens of thousands every day. This elegant aircraft had none of these attributes.
.
Quite the opposite. It was too big. Due to scope clauses none of the US regionals were able to operate it. They were banking on scope being relaxed (among other things) but it never materialized
Wdym it had many of these attributes lol?
This video could be used in a Project Management class on Project Tolerances, Risk Management, Change Management..
Mitsubishi started out with a very tight project envelope with regards to the timeline and various design parameters, leaving itself virtually no time budget allowance to address the many design changes.
Do a video on the Singapore power link between Tasmania and Victoria Australia.
I always find it amazing that different countries’ product designs, from food packaging to jets, always retain a distinctive style with Japan’s the most distinctive IMO. I loved living in Japan because I always found their aesthetic deeply beautiful.
I find the Japanese aesthetic overly showy and cluttered.
Well.. now that this plane won't fly it should belong in a design museum.
Kind of ironic they were first known as plane makers, yet failed to make a plane again.
So many delays. Just painful to hear.
Very informative video, thanks.
Such a shame, as Japan has built some beautiful planes recently, mainly from Kawasaki and HondaJet, so I was really excited about MRJ, hoping it could compete with CRJ and ERJ.
As Japan's also trying to compete with ARJ, I can't help wondering why they don't merge their aerospace businesses. Given their expertise with 787s and F-15/16s etc, it feels as though there's something really holding the Japanese aviation sector back. To fully compete with Comac/Craic, how about an East Asian Airbus-type company, bringing together the commercial aviation sectors in Japan with S.Korea & Indonesia?
Whatever they do, even without MRJ, Japan's still doing well in aviation, and I wish them all the best of luck.
In early 2000's former Embraer president Maurício Botelho, said: "I would not like to be be in their positions. When they arrive we will already be established in the market
The arj21 is 90% Douglas Aircraft, using jigs pilfered from the trunkliner program.
Great video as usual. Keep up the good work! I love watching these. If a TH-camr as a job doesn't work out, I'm sure those guys at Bain and McKinsey will be fighting to hire you as a researcher or consultant!
You sorta undersold the gravity of the weight issue. They were going to have some of us Aerospace people here in Dallas and Ft Worth Texas help get the weight down very late in the development so that SkyWest could even consider buying them. SkyWest would happily have only outfitted them with 90 seats, but the weight was over the major airlines union limits. So unless they renegotiated for the smaller airframe that was planned a huge redesign to get weight out with the help of Triumph Aerostructures was going to be necessary.
Having a union contract specify strict maximum weights sounds ridiculous. A plane that is 10% over some arbitrary number is not breaking some natural limit, it's all just lawyerese useless detailing.
@@georgegonzalez2476 yep... that's a lot of why I felt compelled to comment. The big airline unions don't want smaller feeder/contracted out airlines doing commuter type legs to also be able to fly the larger jets like 737, so just use some weight they see as 737 class to pull that off and basically ban a contacted carrier from operating such a vehicle under contract for their bigger airline employer. Realistically it'd probably be smartest now for all big airlines to have contractors fly all their flights and just fire all their pilots...haha.
It’s sad to see it get scrapped at Moses Lake :(
One outcome of that probably was high speed rail. If they were successful in 60s there wouldn't be high speed rail.
the ARJ was delayed too by 3-4 years. the body had to be almost redesigned, kept getting rejected by FAA as well.
but the aircraft is now flying every day, almost a hundred have been sold, what you say?
ARJ-21 has a big market to back it. Supported by state airliner. It will never failed.
@@zenden9 it would fail if it cannot fly economically, or if the US boycotts parts, lol
@@KirbyZhang
Great! Why didn't US ban it now? lol.
If Mitsubishi could make planes and dedicate their time, by now Boeing will face the fate of Dutch manufacture Fokker.
Great video. At least we beat Japan in commercial airline development. Not to mention soccer, or course.
No jokes about the Mitsubishi Zero here? Never forget the Battle of Chongqing a.k.a. Bombing of Chungking where the Imperial Japanese Navy had gained air superiority against the Chinese Air Force in 1940, and gave the Japanese (Navy especially) full confidence in embarking on 'OPERATION Z' (a.k.a. Pearl Harbor attack mission); incredibly, despite all the intelligence the US military had available from the WWII airwar warfront in China, the Americans were completely taken by the surprise with the Japanese air superiority fighter aircraft and veteran skills of its crews... the Anglo-Saxon powers were too much in itself with Germany's own "Battle of Chungking" a.k.a. Battle of Britain at the Western front and Russia at the Eastern front... where Soviets had pulled all of its resources away from Generalissimo Chiang for the attention against Nazi Germany - while the USA very belatedly stepped in with the Lend-Lease Act for Chiang in May of 1941... four years after the Nanking Massacre...
Can't wait to watch a video from Mentour Pilot about this topic which gives a different perspective from a captain itself.
Great Video. It made my evening. What a crazy disappointing story.
Sounds like Mitsubishi forgot basic system engineering principles while designing the plane.
You know Japan is a place of magic. They don't need manuals to make things happen... Just like car pimping in Tokyo Street.
DIY
It's actually surprisingly (relatively) widespread deficiency. French companies have similar problems as well.
With all it's advantages is scale and access, I cant help but think, specially when compared to it's Chinese example, that Mitsubishi's problem was the age old Japanese drawback of ''communal'' corporate thinking, and the subservantance of individual solutions. As evidence why the Chinese got to market earlier.
How can you produce videos so fast dude. It makes no sense.
Great video!
Looks like they're planning to Reinvest in the MRJ. I hope it get into production soon.
Is the Honda jet still a thing?
Yeah, my buddy’s father just had his arrive.
Hondajet is selling very well, and the airplane itself turned out to be a really good and efficient design. So yeah, it's a thing.
Yes, one of the best I've owned.
& monkeys fly out of my ass
They announced a new, larger model recently. So yeah it's doing alright.
The USA has always been forced to "share" technology to gain customers in most Asian markets.
Japanese companies are not very trusting of foreign engineers and talents. They are too trusting of their own Japanese minds and ways, the rest of the world are not as good as them is really how the traditional corporate world works. Having worked for a Japanese company in Japan myself made me realize this. It's both good and bad at the same time that the traditional Japanese way of thinking is very conservative. In short, close-minded. Everything about Mitsubishi's attempt and failure to make their own commercial regional airplane speaks exactly on what's wrong with traditional Japanese corporate culture. Mind you, they did the documentation but its all in Japanese and the engineers who did the wiring on this could not convert the design language into English or other languages because they believe Japanese design is good enough so they skipped having to get a detailed real time translation of the design thinking they would pass certification without. Too bad
I hate this happened. The design looked slick and the area is a growing area in aviation.
I went to college at the airfield they tested the MRJ in Moses Lake.
Would've loved to see the mrj in commercial services. Love trying out aircrafts that aren't a Boeing or Airbus
Amazing history...I always hate to see an airline go bust. At the same time there seems to be always a group of people to rework the finances for a start up. I wish all airline industries have the vision to keep it going. Thanks
I simp really hard for Mitsubishi, but they really do some impressive work. It's a shame to see economics get in the way of excellence.
Surprised you can do this entire item without reference to the Airbus A220 (formerly Bombardier CS100-300).
which also had massive delays
Or the fact that Mitsubishi bought the CRJ series from Bombardier in June 2020.
Excellent video. However you’re forgetting a few Japanese jet manufacturers. Honda jet, and Mitsubishi mu2, and mu300
What a sad irony - Mitsubishi was developing this rival to the CRJ, and it would have had a cabin wider than even the E-Jet.
Now all they have is the narrow CRJ 😐
14:47 if the SpaceJet succeeded, it would most likely face issues with its Geared Turbofans, but the airframe would have been awesome!
Excellent report as always. But it is incorrect to compare the Spacejet development time to China ARJ-21. The Spacejet simply use the P&W engine, drastically cut development cost. The ARJ-21 use China own engine, which require huge development time and cost. The ARJ-21 also experienced major redesign challenge, thus delay. But in the end Comac finally solved all problems and got its bird into serial productions. Both a steep learning experience.
ARJ-21 used Honeywell US engine
@@zenden9 GE engine, Honeywell make APUs not engines.
the problem is that Japan does not a sizable local market to support the jet.
New aircraft development failure is always disappointing.
what is the range of these regional jets??
You deserve 30 million subs
Amazing, they can build an artificial island and put one of the best airports in the world on it but they cannot design a plane. (Osaka Kansai)
Seems like a problem of systemic complexity. Civil engineering is complex, but there are fewer supercomplex technologies. It’s easier for management to under all the parts involved. Whereas in aviation, there are dozens of little niche pieces which are far too complex for the project leadership to even know about until it’s delaying the project
Well researched
I had wondered for long what happened to the MRJ which was unveiled with much fanfare. It is actually very puzzling that a major heavy inductrial and high technology power-house like Japan had no aerospace industry of its own, whereas even Brazil has a major company like Embraer, although Brazil is never considered even close to Japan as far as technological development is considered. What is even more astonishing is that Mitsubishi flunked its entire MRJ project due to sloppy planning and execution, something one would normally never associate with the Japanese, who are famous for their efficiency and meticulous planning. This entire episode serves as an eye-opener, and shows that things are not always necesarily what they seem to be.
Reminds me of Lockheed's brief entry into the commercial market.
Hello you have been selected among my lucky winners DM via the above name on telegram to claim your prize 🌲 🎁..
With this vídeo i understand why Tesla need it 80% of vertical integration of their partes and why always is needed to document how You develop your process as engineer (as deadly tedious as this sounds). If not this are the results.
Mitsubishi bought a part of Bombardier, specifically their regional jet division - CRJ aircraft? How will that affect things, now that they own another designs doing exactly what they wanted. Will they focus on the CRJ and try to move more of the supply chain to Japan? Use Bombardier's engineers to finish the Space Jet?
Will they ever use the technology they designed for the Space Jet?
This ia a sad story. I wish Mitsubishi the best of luck in their future involvement of aircraft production. They deserve a break after all that hard work. I simply love my 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and believe that company has so much potential in any area of technology for manufacturing. I just know they will be flying someday! 🤗
aftet this break, does Japan still has enough money and time to cacth up with Airubus and Boeing? it will be a serious question,
meanwhile China 's C919 has just been successfully tested,
Japan is losing in more and more high-tech industrial fields, such as chips, smartphones, civil drones... even their automobile industrial is facing challenge from China,
if Japan keep losing market share, they will not have enough money to invest in the future :s
It seems that there are operatives among the bureaucrats in the Japan.
In particular, the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of the Environment.
Will you continue to research and develop for 15 years and then accept "yes I give up"?
If you couldn't get the "type certificate", you should clearly explain why you couldn't.
It doesn't seem to be for technical reasons.
Kawasaki Heavy Industries' P1 patrol aircraft and ShinMaywa's large flying boats also fly magnificently.
Large flying boats of the Maritime Self-Defense Force can land on the surface of the sea with high waves.
As for the strength of the aircraft, it is considered that there is no problem with the technical capabilities of Japan.
Why not use a supercomputer for the comprehensive structural calculation of the MRJ?
"Kei" and "Fugaku" are not decorations, are they?
This issue should never be fooled.
The future of our aircraft industry is at stake.
You should try again no matter what anyone says. We shouldn't give up.
I'm not asking you to build a "time machine."
It's an airplane made by people. Nothing is impossible.
They were hard headed and stay with their familiar method, rather than adopting the latest.
Id like to point out oil is close to 100 a barrel now :)
Ten years work and $9 Billion for a region jet program development with nothing to show for it. $9 Billon could've bought a fleet of Airbus A220s and Embrear E-Jets.
Not a single dime was really wasted on this crap. Cause it kept the company's stocks artificially high for too long.
You can bet the ones in the know took their cash with them.
When gross incompetence meets willful ignorance = spacejet
I appreciate the video but there are a few mistakes. 1- you said RJs help connect passengers to “large hub and spoke airports” but you meant to say hub. The spokes are the smaller mostly regional airports. You could have said connecting smaller spokes to larger hubs. “Spokes” are more likely towns of say 5k people to maybe around 100k people, while hubs generally tend to be in the million plus range for the metropolitan areas. 2-you enthroned Sukhoi superjet and the comac providing competition to the large RJ manufacturers. That isn’t realistically true. Both of those companies have very few airplanes in the sky. About 200 total flying aircraft last time I checked, with orders coming primarily from China and poorer African and SE Asian countries. As a comparison, SkyWest, a single regional airline in the US operates about 300 CRJs alone and another 200 ERJs. So one airline has about double the fleet of the total comac and sukhoi superjets. Not really any sort of competition. 3- I wish you had gone into some specifics as to how this 100pax max would have competed with a 737 or rather replaced it with some airlines. Given the fact that the 737 is not a regional jet. Although I understand that ANA specifically does offer quite short routes using the 737, some of the routes (I’m guessing) are profitable using a larger aircraft that is full (meaning say 150-200pax) but it could be less profitable increasing service using 2 planes or dividing the single flight into 2 separate flights. Either way it would’ve been helpful to understand.
Otherwise I think this was interesting. I remember following this for a while before all news disappeared. Would’ve been great to see this as part of SkyWest’s fleet.
It was not a technology failure. The plane is already certified with only the FAA certification pending. It was much rather a commercial and financial failure, cos the cost could never be recouped. The Covid event really landed a devastating blow too. They concluded that the market was simply not there to justify ongoing cost. I think the real error of Mitsubishi is that they spent too many years constantly changing scope and design objective. They also failed terribly in the area of project management. They felt they could not succeed unless they penetrated the American market. This means they need FAA Certification. I am totally convinced that MRJ will still launch in future. How do I know?? Mitsubishi bought Bombardiers CRJ program and ended it. In so doing, they are creating a future climate for pent up demand. Unsurprisingly, Embraer has also suspended development of its E2-175 jet. The scope clause is so unsure right now that the two manufacturers will rather wait.
I enjoyed this video. I don't remember much of the details anymore, but Japan tried developing something in the 737 class back in the 60s. It was a disaster
Sounds like the main problem was overreliance on the US. China is producing for its own market and as COMAC is state owned they are more well coordinated within the system. Chinese airlines are certain to place orders and unions are not an issue. Also the Chinese coast guard would never buy a foreign plane if a domestic option is available. Japan should dare to act like China, just as Japan Inc did in the 1980s.
Forcing private companies to buy from a domestic supplier instead of a supplier of their choice sounds like communism. This may work in China PRC but not in Japan or other nations with highly developed free-market economies. From the story even Japan's coast guard did not choose the MRJ, favouring instead a foreign airplane maker.
@@nicholaschong3852
it calls national security, just like US DoD use Boeing instead of Airbus.
@@nicholaschong3852 US literally forced consumers to buy US made
Pick up truck by 25% tariff. Communism much?
@@nicholaschong3852 you say it would never work as if their current situation work well lol
It boggles me why Mitsubishi planned production in Malaysia. Where significant flights and abundant resources are next-door in Indonesia. Indonesia hasthe 4th busiest air flight traffic in the world and is a competitor in every aspect to Malaysia. Indonesia also has an established airplane industry the Malaysian lacks.
Surely it didn't end up well.
@chuggs that’s the more reason why Mitsubishi should start in Indonesia. Boeing is recalled for many issues and airbus is too dominant in Indonesia.
Probably bribery. Malaysia slipped someone some money and Mitsubishi overlooks an obvious "domestic market" for a tiny one that wouldn't do much good for the program
@chuggs i hear their airlines called something like garuda allow to fly to europe, but not other like lion air
@chuggs but lion air not from Indonesia tho
"Indonesia also has an established airplane industry the Malaysian lacks" Sorry but this is where most people are dead wrong. 70 percent of Indonesian parts and MRO contracts are still done by neighbors, in case if you aren't aware.
Malaysia has a lot of parts suppliers and MRO facilities. They may lack the market size compared to Indonesia, and might not be interested making locally-designed aircraft.. but they produce top notch parts, MRO customers flock to them for developmental upgrades and so the overall ecosystem might be more favorable. The same reason why Malaysian automotive industry still survives.
They do things from the lowly Alouette copter all the way to A400M and F-18s. Customers ranging from private owners all the way to USAF and USMC. No one would be crazy enough to MRO their own Flanker with nonexistent Russian documentations but there they are.
They somewhat tackled the low-levels and that is way more important than trying to compete in aircraft-making, which is an incredibly saturated market.
It makes comac continued existence really admirable. Despite trade war restrictions and having a very saturated market for regional jet, they can survive with their own local market alone.
Irrestric access to tax payers money. Seems like that's the answer.
any one who interested in startup..
your channel is must watch
Sadly Trans States is no longer operating. No doubt the current manufacturers will not tolerate a new model in the market no matter the merits of the design.
Compliments to the deep investigation. When one knocks on the door of the certification authorities at the end of the design/1st. proto/demonstrator, you are 20 years late!. A plane should be designed with certification in mind from the very beginning on. The engineering and documentation processes should be designed too. I don't think Mitsubishi is too little to cope the challenges. It' s a culture and management problem. Look at Embrear which is doeing well. Not long ago Embrear was a state owned military supplier too.
In other words: monopoly and competition from other manufactures are stiff and Japanese underestimate how hard is to make competitive commercial planes
Most likely if Japan dedicate their time in developing airplanes to say Toyota starts up, soon in a few years if Toyota makes airplanes Boeing becomes the next Fokker!
@@Embargoman you're delusional as people who believes earth is flat
@@wengwong2650 The earth is round yet, to say two 737 MAX planes crash and Boeing is a US based company, the reason why Europe’s Airbus eats Boeing’s lunch the only way that South Korea competes is that their airplanes will be made by a European company other than that Japan could do it by their own.
Either way for COMAC, is just in China the EASA and FAA needs approval to be safe to fly everywhere else other than that they give more chance to a Japanese competitor than COMAC to be approved.
@@Embargoman 737 max are minor incidents. Airbus is equally crap.. Boeing leads the aerospace. In terms of revenue.. the 777x will be there recovery..
Thank you! Really enjoy watching your videos. Would you d video on recent Russian MC 21
If Japan wanted a commercial jet: "Hey, Toyota, can you build me a commercial jet?" "How big and when do you want it?" "Eighty seats." "Good, give us a year." "Gotcha"
honda is doing that right now with the Honda Jet
Since Mitsubishi acquired the CRJ Series off Bombardier. Are they just going to focus on that?
Reminds me a bit of the F-2 program which had an enormous amount of delays and cost overruns despite the partnership with Lockheed Martin. And the resulting aircraft is so expensive to operate they are already looking to replace it. They've had a lot more success working with Boeing as a contractor for the Dreamliner. They are the sole contractor for the composite wings, and have an enormous dedicated factory- one of the largest in Japan- for this purpose.
😮 I am surprised for a country that as excellent track record for buildings trains doesn’t build a commercial airplane