@Digibro The comparison of the doujin store scene I find kind of interesting. The manga's version reminds me of some of the smaller doujin stores that exist in Japan, and really got me wondering if maybe this was more common place in the early 90s. I had heard that Shimoku had based much of the manga off his time in a club in college which by my calculation would have been around 1992-96. Additionally, its quite likely that all the doujin stores visited in the manga were based off Akihabara (vs say Osaka's DendenTown) since he went to Tsukuba University, which is based in Ibaraki prefecture and which happens to have an express train line that runs from Tsukuba city to Akihabara. A lot of today's stores are still fairly claustrophobic in Akihabara, but they've expanded and gotten bigger and don't have the same feeling as the manga, but they do feel similar to the anime.
I recognise both of the stores. The one in the manga is indeed a tiny claustrophobic one somewhere on Akihabara's main street, and it's entrance is indeed plastered with posters like that. The one in the anime is based off the "male" Comic Toranona in Akihabara, which has porn doujins of female characters on the upper floors but "cleaner" lower floors. They're both places that existed at the same time when I went to Akihabara in the early 2010's
That clip at 6:25 had me absolutely dying in laughter, for both the stapled bedsheet as wells as Digi's "What the fuck are you gonna do about it" look.
Never read Genshiken manga myself. Though I´ve seen the anime adaptation twice or thrice. Its a good story, and what I personally like is the setting of the stage. No more High school crap that we are fed tons and tons of all the time. Instead a bit more adult, yet not completely there yet setting with more mature characters, that allows for better fleshing out the personalities, interests and overall tone of the series.
Idk if it was fate or not, but went to a local thrift bookstore today and finding a nearly complete set of the Genshiken manga in its original print like how I remembered it back on my HS friend's shelf 15 years ago. Never had I bought something so fast in my life, but man my fondness for this series will never waver and I think about it on an annual basis haha
So glad to see that this anime is still talked about today. This is one of my all time favorites, and was introduced to me when I was in college, and right before my first anime convention in Pittsburgh. I agree with many of the points in your review, except the criticism of the art style, and backgrounds of the anime. It is typically known that art studios will cheapen their anime a touch due to budgetary reasons. I would rather see a constant quality of middle of road like Genshiken, instead of some animes that use all their budget for the first half of a series, then near the end they realize that they have used all their budget.
I'm a fan of Genshiken but not a major otaku in general so I never would've noticed all the little references you pointed out. So it's pretty neat having it explained! Being able to appreciate little details in nice.
I feel like the exclusion of specific branding and franchises is maybe deserving of a separate discussion. When a mangaka and sometimes writer produce something there's so many fewer hands involved that the artist can really do whatever they please for the most part; and because they're only constrained by the guidelines of their publisher, which seem to vary by chapter, it's much more acceptable to have overtly risque elements in a manga that isn't 18+. Having all these overt or slightly modified references to other media is something that the publisher would never get called out on, so nobody cares. Once it turns into an anime project however, suddenly it has to conform to broadcast regulations, everybody wants to stick their finger in it, and the use of media becomes not just an issue of using someone else's trademark or IP, but whether they have paid to be placed there. Not simply "they'll sue us", but also "we don't do free advertising". I agree on all those points, it would have been better if it had been more direct, but Genshiken is still one of my favorite anime for all the reasons discussed in the video; and while the complaints are equally fair, this one seems like less of a finger to point at the production that they failed, but a finger to point at the industry and how it considers copyright and trademark solely for it's own reasons, which is also a theme of the digibro-experience. WcDonalds is WcDonalds not because McDonalds hasn't noticed, not mostly because they would sue, but because they haven't paid for the placement, and I'm sure everybody tried.
This video was FANTASTIC. I follow your after dark channel and am well aware of your reasoning behind not wanting to do analytical pieces over manga for so long, and I really think you nailed this one on the head. The presentation of the images when you were walking us through the story felt so gratifying, like it was the actual mangaka putting together the panels themselves in order to best convey what was going on. Of course the main difference being you were summarizing for your points. This video has me very interested in seeing your opinions on where other anime adaptations fail the original manga, as that's a long discussed topic in the community.
Fuck yeah Genshiken! This series deserves more attention! That being said, I think you're slightly over exaggerating the overwhelming presence of Kuji Un has in the anime. Sure it does take up a huge amount of the visual and conversation space in the show, but there are also a lot of subtle references to different anime and games throughout the show as well. Laputa/Castle in the Sky, Puyo Pop, Katamari, Capcom vs SNK, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, Gurren Lagann, and Full Metal Panic, just to name a fw off the top of my head. Hell, most of Madarame's lines are references to various Gundam series! I think that making Kuji Un such a priority was to make the show more approachable to viewers not a versed in 90s and early 2000s anime culture. I myself first watched the Genshiken anime back in 2008 when I was first getting into the anime scene, and read the manga shortly thereafter. Needles to say, most of the references flew right over my head back then. But I still understood what it was like to become obsessive over a certain show, and how great it was to be able to find someone to talk to about it.
Awesome video, dude. I've been hoping for a video on this manga ever since I saw the episode of Mangapod you appeared in. It was cool seeing you in a less analytical, more lighthearted context there, but it also really made me want to see you do an analysis of this on your own time in your own context and boy did you deliver here. I especially appreciated how you focused on very specific details (which avoids the video feeling like a set of broad over-generalized assertions) but always managed to tie those details into broader functional concepts. It's a short video but one which uses its runtime effectively, which I always admire.
I loved Genshiken it has special place in my heart watching it with my college anime club and waiting for fansubs makes me super nostalgic cause we use to share and doujin games and tips on buying doujin as well i miss it Q_Q love the manga too i think the anime stands on it's own though even if the manga has a bit more detail i think you can get away with referencing more in manga than in anime
oldfag otakus unite? .... man this video brings way to much nostalgia of me watching anime even before it went kind of mainstream thanks to toonami and similar shit .... gosh I genuinely feel old
I loved this video despite not even knowing what this franchise is. As a film major what I took away from this is how important set design is for setting up a scene or characters. The manga tells you a lot about these characters and people just by all the specific details as you described. Details that busy college film majors (like myself) don't always focus on at all and end up suffering for it. I've seen and worked on to many student productions where it's just basically a white wall in the background and it looks awful.
A lot of the sketch comedy videos that my brothers and I made as teenagers are really distractingly shot in rooms full of anime posters that have nothing to do with the joke lol.
Great video. Really love the genshiken series since it was always able to make you like your really seeing the unscripted lives of people in this slice of life comedy. One thing I wanted to bring up was how Gigi kept mentioning how Genshiken was a good portrayal of 2002 otaku which implies that they are different from current otaku? I don't really see any big changes in otaku society over the last 15 years though besides the drastic increase in popularity of LN adaption series.
This mangaka has always had the most pain-painstakingly detailed backgrounds. I would spend minutes on panel just absorbing the little details. The anime studio at the time was probably like "!@#$ nope, I ain't drawing that".
I fucking love Genshiken, both seasons of both the manga and anime. I watched the anime first so the manga really just served to be a visual treat that added to the world which i caught glimpses of and related to strongly in the early 00s. the only time i had to chance to see exposure to even a small sliver of how thick and loaded that world was always happened at a convention's dealer room, so my own environments matched most closely the anime, but all the same the story was wonderful and through my re-watching/reading over time only served to increase my love of the Genshiken. In fact some of my favorite references were in the second season with Sue being rife with Monogatari references.
I had never heard of this manga before and I wasn't even interested at first. But somehow you still enthrall me with your writing and editing. I can't even explain out how, but you do really do this the best out of anyone on this website I swear.
I read the manga as it was translated and brought to my library from about 2008-2010. I was right in the age range of the characters and really enjoyed it overall. To this day I still find it hard to find manga/anime with older main characters.
Another manga that has really detailed backgrounds is I am a Hero and in there it also reinforces the general atmosphere of the series and speaks about what is/was happening.
Man, watching this is making me want to re read my Genshiken volumes I brought in its first Italian run, not that there were others. I've always noticed there was something weird and misplaced between manga and anime but i had never been able to place it, mainly because the time i read the manga and seen the anime were years apart.
Interesting video, but I couldn't help but think the reason the anime's lack luster background was a budgetary one. Looking at the backgrounds for the manga and all those details, My initial thought was "jesus that could have been very expensive for the anime"
Solid work, and I always appreciate attention drawn to Genshiken and the fact that you shouted out Kujibiki Unbalance again puts a smile on my face. More people should check both out sometime. If I may be so bold, I would highly recommend checking out Pause and Select's side channel for how he constructed his manga presentation. It is absolutely wonderful and would really enhance this video overall to go with the great writing. I wouldn't normally do this, but I would suggest since there's some techniques he uses that could of been used in some segments to give it a bit of an extra oomph! That, and I won't deny using the transparency checkerboard as the background for the panels is a bit jarring. However, that's from someone that stares at it frequently. I hope you don't mind.
I started off watching the anime first but found myself quickly drawn to the manga and have stuck with that ever since. Though the anime had its merits (the first op and Madarame's voice actor are still some of the more iconic parts of the series) it did feel like it lacked polish in certain parts. I always felt like it was because they had to expand on the individual scenes that it lost some of its power but its presentation of characters always felt like there was less effort involved there as well. I particularly remember the scene between Ohno and Ogiue where Ogiue was freaking out over being accepted to the Comi-Fest being particularly lackluster in the anime, whereas in the manga it's a pretty unique and powerful conversation. I finally gave up on the anime after two particular moments. One was a scene where Sasahara is getting Ogiue's work checked by a lady at the Submission's office and there's this really bizarre moment where they make her breasts jiggle as she stands up (the character is a rather plain side character at best, so it's more confusing than fan servicey). It came off as a really patheitc moment of pandering in an otherwise normal transition scene. The other was Angela's terrible Engrish voice acting. Kudos to the VA doing it but it was clear she wasn't well versed in English and so wasn't really suited to the role. Since it was supposed to be an American who couldn't speak Japanese all that well it was painful to see her speaking English badly but doing okay with her Japanese.
I don't know. I think that there is a reason for less overall clutter in the backgrounds etc. of the animated series, tbh. The issue with adding a bunch of detail to an animated adaptation is that it has to keep a good pace. The viewer can't slow down and analyze each part of the image in the same way that a reader can when reading a manga. I believe that Digi has talked about a similar concept to this before, but I think it could be said to apply in this case as well. While the stuff being shown in the doujin store, etc. could have remained the same, and more variety overall could have been added to the merch that they show, having overly cluttered backgrounds (which he mentions near the start of the video, high detailed backgrounds should tell a story, etc.) can actually make it really tough for the viewer to decide where to direct their attention. Sometimes, if I run into this, I end up pausing so I don't miss anything. But that obviously pulls me out of the (immersion? - not sure if that is the word I want here). Otherwise, I just end up missing possible important details, though. In this sense, I think a case could be made for minimalism in animated backgrounds. The same could apply to manga and other written works as well if the creators want to keep a certain pacing throughout the piece and believe that over-filled imagery will slow the reader out of this pacing. This is probably most relevant for comedic pieces.
To be fair. I do not think the manga could be translated into anime as well because of the fact that getting the rights to use all those products in a show is much more resource intensive. Granted I do not know what it takes to produce a show in Japan, but I do know companies are protective of their properties
oh hell yea Digi I love Genshiken, I just started the anime for a friend of mine so he could experience it since reading manga is a little beyond his time or means atm. Nice, still love your videos man keep it up good sir.
I feel like Comic Party was another one that the anime adaptation tooooootally shat on. Those manga giving us a window to how the anime scene was back in the 2000s was what we all craved for, that notion that "otaku" was some sort of status symbol us highschoolers craved. Now we cringe a bit at that thought, but still absorb ourselves in anime in our late 20s-early 30s and bask in the afterglow of what was.
A friend bought volume 1 of the manga for me for xmas many years ago because of how much I loved the anime, but I still haven't read it assuming it was identical to the anime. This gives me a reason to though, thanks. Concerning the anime, how about that make-out scene?! Never seen anything like that in animation. So many mouth noises! Sure hentai does it to an extreme but there was also an emotional impact behind the scene which made it so much more valuable in my eyes.
TalesOfNerdia this season's Kuzu no Honkai does it as well and it's much more explicit with it's...material, but it sure as hell doesn't have the same impact
Good stuff Digi. I appreciate these analysis on the contrast between franchises' media formats. Kujibiki Unbalance felt a tad bit hamfisted when I watched Genshiken but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Certainly the least interesting element in the show for me. But seeing how it served as a blanket of cultural references to replace a much richer variety of nods to other works that are present in the manga, explains a lot.
Never watched nor read Genshiken but your explanation of it reminded my of Lucky Star. Lucky Star, like Genshiken is very much a period piece that is describing it's year of anime and what otaku were interested in at the time (I think year was 06 or 07).
I would say that they shifted the focus from ripped off characters from other series to the show within a show would be for copyright reasons, however, japan usually doesn't care about that, so maybe it was to make it easier for localization teams for an international audience?
As someone who is moderately into anime culture (I can't say I'm full on Otaku, I watch anime b'cause I find it fascinating over most mainstream media), as well as someone who has grown on early to late 2000s anime (I love those aesthetics), this series looks extreme fascinating, and intimidating at the same time.
I think some very good points are made here and I wonder if in the anime the producers felt like making otaku culture so seedy would be off putting so it all seems a bit more mainstream, a large department store dedicated to doujin over some seedy little store in some back alley like many doujin stores especially back in it's time. I will always love Genshiken as one of the best manga ever made and I think you really appreciate it if your major otaku years were coming out of the 90's into the early 00's especially if you made your first trip to Tokyo around that time and experienced Akihabara as it was then. The characters in the show are so relatable that they could be myself or any of my friends and I really like the clash between otaku with their heads in the clouds meeting such a down to earth average girl who shows a new side to them. My only sadness is it ended with no Madarame x Keiko I think I was the only fan of that ship but honestly I think she was so similar to what Saki was just a normal down to earth girl he can really talk to and relax with and I could see him having a normal mature relationship over some dreamy otaku fantasy.
I never pick any of this up, but going back and thinking about it I would say you are correct. Still the anime was really strong and even better in some episodes like the nose hair or when madarame twists his wrist at the convention.
I'm happy that you're finally starting to cover manga material since you've been wanting to for a long time. Both this and the last video make really great points and you've let me see how in different series the adaptation can be better or worse. How long will it be before you can talk about a manga with no anime parallel and still have people care?
now that I think about it, Kanon got an adaptation in 2002 and 2006 both years had its own significance to anime culture and the styles of each reflect what was going on in the era well
Would some of these problems with the anime's background be sited as not being able to license copyrighted materials, like only being able to play one fighting game, for the show. While the manga had carte-blanche.
I feel every time I watch the anime before reading the manga, the comedic timing feels off, so I didn't read much of volume 1 before giving up on it. The anime overall had a budgety feel and look to it with stiff character animations if I remember correctly, but it used some ambient sound design which was kind of neat. Always felt that Genshiken 2 was about the flip side of Otaku culture which was expanded on from the first season, it also lost a bit of the ambiance also. They might have changed that stuff in the anime to avoid copyright strikes? Even the crossplay of one character is different in the anime, different regulations between the two media.
I wonder if 7:36 poster is of one of AliceSoft's older mascot characters, other than Alice, and the 7:40 looks like Clannad. I'd imagine the issue with the anime is that they straight up couldn't reference (visually) as many series due to budget and legal concerns... that said, it's not really fair to dismiss the anime itself over the manga. Both mediums (for Genshiken) make use of their own strengths (as some of the commenters pointed out). Do have to ask: what would a modern otaku think of this series, regardless of which medium form of it they encounter. As the series faded into obscurity, just as negativity for otaku-related content, it really makes me think what modern otaku would think of this series (and the by-gone era in general). To think how little tolerance people had for otaku-related stuff less than generation ago, yet now its touted everywhere. The question just keeps repeating itself in my mind.
Referencing copyrighted material in Japanese tv is tricky compared to manga. This is why when an anime show references another property, it’s usually obscured in one way or the other. So it makes perfect sense the references were removed from the anime adaptation. It’s a lot less headache, plus it wasn’t necessary for the story.
Hearing you reference Maburaho was like hearing someone reference a hallucination you had years ago. I swear to God it feels like I created that series during a high fever.
I saw the anime (And It's other seasons) I absolutely love this anime and yes I completely agree with you. Thanks for pointing that out I'm definitely going to be reading the manga. I was going to anyway because I want to read more into the romances with Madarame especially with the spin off they maid. Thoughts on that btw?
Haha the spin-off was how I discovered Genshiken :P It's just as good as Genshiken, but its kind like an alternative future with an Madaramexsaki ending.
This actually takes me back. The time I was an Otaku was precisely the early 2000s. I've given up since by a combination of Real Life, other interests and the sudden popularity of Light Novel adaptations and Moe Girls; but that show seems to reflect my teenage years
I think your critique of the anime dismissed the two ways anime is different than manga: flow, and sound. In the manga, you can stop the action, look at all the details, absorb, decipher, and then move to the next panel. The precise facial expressions help you to remember what's going on as you do so. The anime can use voice to convey a character's mood. Anime creates a story you can rewatch over and over but pausing every ten frames to find details breaks the flow. (Esp if there's any background music). As for H-Unbalanced, I think the anime had to distill the visual detail (that would be too hard to see as it whizzed by) to one series. H-U is referenced a lot in the "1 Minute Later" manga afterwards. Plus, the treat of having H-U as a "real" cartoon is a big bonus.
there is a scene later in the manga where the main lead and his girlfriend are flirting on the train. And it was one of the hottest moments I have ever read. It was a quick few lines, but the expressions and delivery were amazing. And I was reading this as it came out so it was awhile ago, but I still remember that scene.
I've read a few volumes of the manga this past year, and was thinking of watching the anime. With how much it leaves out, is the Kujibiki Unbalance worth watching without the rest of the show if I stick to the manga?
I found the anime first, thanks to a mystery box I got. I rather liked it and it's one of my favorites. I've always been more of an anime fan than a manga fan, so the kind of stuff you talk about here never much bothered me. I took the anime within the anime to simply be a way of getting around potential legal troubles, and after having read the manga now, I still think that's the primary reason for it and the focus on it that you are talking about here. Probably the only reason they got a specific game rather than some parody based on Kujibiki Unbalance is because the studio making the anime was able to work out some kind of a deal for it or it was just otherwise somehow available for them to do so. The thing is, you are always going to lose something when adapting to screen. A lot of that detail you use as examples from the manga, well, you can sit there and study those panels at your own pace and actually get that out of them (or in my case have the reference be completely lost on me), but in the anime, it would be there and gone in a flash, and given the cost of animating, and that this series probably didn't have a real big budget, I'm not terribly surprised when it comes to the issues you highlighted (such as the poor quality of the backgrounds), and for me that kind of stuff isn't really an issue. I don't know if it's because I tended to watch older anime when I first got into anime and just had that as a fairly typical aspect of it, or if I'm just distracted enough by what the characters are doing or talking about that I just don't pay much attention to it, but there it is.
I remember when all my friends where watching Green Green in 2010, I was watching Genshiken. I thought it was alright. It would be great to get my hands on the manga
This video was great - do you plan on making any other videos like this? There are probably tons of anime that lost a lot of substance in the adaptation for the same reason
my guess is the anime did not have enough budget for copyright clearence. granted, spoof is fair use, but i think somehow a manga can get away with spoof and prooving fair use mor easily. i could be wrong. also a manga, while still censored has a different censorship standard than a program intended for tv. but as for why the animators opted for sipler painted backgrounds i do not know. perhaps they did not have the same aschtetic sense?
7:36 Two examples that I can think of this scenario: where the manga/manhua is better than the anime adaption is Denpa Kyoushi (Ultimate Otaku Teacher), and Desolate Era. Both anime adaption made poor decisions by being visually and emotionally different from the manga/manhua versions. It's even worse when the anime adaption deviates from the original story (although Desolate Era was from a novel, the manhua stayed true to the story direction of the novel).
Ah the early 2000's, the years where anime wasn't as big as it is now and I was too young and American to be able to appreciate Galaxy Angel to the extent I do now.
I've just picked up my old Genshiken Manga after many years. It really brings me back to a place and time. I definitely remember the anime being a bit bland in comparison. The budget to do the anime properly was probably just too large.
5:44 "Favorite *Fight Game* Characters"? Really? Hey guys! Wanna play some _fight games?_ Also, can we take a minute to appreciate "The Champ of Fighters 95" in the blurred section above? Fucking scanslations.
"Champ of Fighters" was probably copyright avoidance. Most of the manga's direct references have slightly altered names like that. In one frame of this video that shows the Japanese manga you can see Madarame refering to "COF" in English letters.
it was, after all SNK is like nintendo, fully feral into protecting its IP , the "High Score Girl" manga which is criminally underated btw for what I can see in the west was even in the talks of getting animated but it got fully copyfucked by SNK and other similar companies since the manga heavily depends on the nostalgia factor so it cant go playing the parody name game, it used the actual real names of games and characters but Fair Use (in Japan)? the fuck is that fam? .... but seriously Digi,if you haven't checked that manga you should check it, I genuinely loved the whole thing and the artwork really grow up with me since it *not* your nice average looking manga style and maybe spread the word about it so who knows maybe it will get the animation idea worked again
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@Digibro The comparison of the doujin store scene I find kind of interesting. The manga's version reminds me of some of the smaller doujin stores that exist in Japan, and really got me wondering if maybe this was more common place in the early 90s. I had heard that Shimoku had based much of the manga off his time in a club in college which by my calculation would have been around 1992-96. Additionally, its quite likely that all the doujin stores visited in the manga were based off Akihabara (vs say Osaka's DendenTown) since he went to Tsukuba University, which is based in Ibaraki prefecture and which happens to have an express train line that runs from Tsukuba city to Akihabara.
A lot of today's stores are still fairly claustrophobic in Akihabara, but they've expanded and gotten bigger and don't have the same feeling as the manga, but they do feel similar to the anime.
I recognise both of the stores. The one in the manga is indeed a tiny claustrophobic one somewhere on Akihabara's main street, and it's entrance is indeed plastered with posters like that. The one in the anime is based off the "male" Comic Toranona in Akihabara, which has porn doujins of female characters on the upper floors but "cleaner" lower floors. They're both places that existed at the same time when I went to Akihabara in the early 2010's
What do you recomend on how to watch it...like the arrangment?
Genshiken's just got that cozy 2000s vibe. Love it
That clip at 6:25 had me absolutely dying in laughter, for both the stapled bedsheet as wells as Digi's "What the fuck are you gonna do about it" look.
Zero fucks.
Never read Genshiken manga myself. Though I´ve seen the anime adaptation twice or thrice.
Its a good story, and what I personally like is the setting of the stage. No more High school crap that we are fed tons and tons of all the time. Instead a bit more adult, yet not completely there yet setting with more mature characters, that allows for better fleshing out the personalities, interests and overall tone of the series.
Idk if it was fate or not, but went to a local thrift bookstore today and finding a nearly complete set of the Genshiken manga in its original print like how I remembered it back on my HS friend's shelf 15 years ago. Never had I bought something so fast in my life, but man my fondness for this series will never waver and I think about it on an annual basis haha
So glad to see that this anime is still talked about today. This is one of my all time favorites, and was introduced to me when I was in college, and right before my first anime convention in Pittsburgh. I agree with many of the points in your review, except the criticism of the art style, and backgrounds of the anime.
It is typically known that art studios will cheapen their anime a touch due to budgetary reasons. I would rather see a constant quality of middle of road like Genshiken, instead of some animes that use all their budget for the first half of a series, then near the end they realize that they have used all their budget.
I'm a fan of Genshiken but not a major otaku in general so I never would've noticed all the little references you pointed out. So it's pretty neat having it explained! Being able to appreciate little details in nice.
5:02 That's not Zangief from Street Fighter, that's Big Bear from Fatal Fury! (Poster to the left)
Damn, I had a feeling it could be a more obscure fighting game reference lol
I feel like the exclusion of specific branding and franchises is maybe deserving of a separate discussion. When a mangaka and sometimes writer produce something there's so many fewer hands involved that the artist can really do whatever they please for the most part; and because they're only constrained by the guidelines of their publisher, which seem to vary by chapter, it's much more acceptable to have overtly risque elements in a manga that isn't 18+. Having all these overt or slightly modified references to other media is something that the publisher would never get called out on, so nobody cares.
Once it turns into an anime project however, suddenly it has to conform to broadcast regulations, everybody wants to stick their finger in it, and the use of media becomes not just an issue of using someone else's trademark or IP, but whether they have paid to be placed there. Not simply "they'll sue us", but also "we don't do free advertising".
I agree on all those points, it would have been better if it had been more direct, but Genshiken is still one of my favorite anime for all the reasons discussed in the video; and while the complaints are equally fair, this one seems like less of a finger to point at the production that they failed, but a finger to point at the industry and how it considers copyright and trademark solely for it's own reasons, which is also a theme of the digibro-experience.
WcDonalds is WcDonalds not because McDonalds hasn't noticed, not mostly because they would sue, but because they haven't paid for the placement, and I'm sure everybody tried.
This video was FANTASTIC. I follow your after dark channel and am well aware of your reasoning behind not wanting to do analytical pieces over manga for so long, and I really think you nailed this one on the head. The presentation of the images when you were walking us through the story felt so gratifying, like it was the actual mangaka putting together the panels themselves in order to best convey what was going on. Of course the main difference being you were summarizing for your points. This video has me very interested in seeing your opinions on where other anime adaptations fail the original manga, as that's a long discussed topic in the community.
i can't wait for this anime to revive
NOW THIS KIND OF MANGA VIDEOS I CAN WATCH. I like the way its made a lot better
i miss this anime so much
Fuck yeah Genshiken! This series deserves more attention!
That being said, I think you're slightly over exaggerating the overwhelming presence of Kuji Un has in the anime. Sure it does take up a huge amount of the visual and conversation space in the show, but there are also a lot of subtle references to different anime and games throughout the show as well. Laputa/Castle in the Sky, Puyo Pop, Katamari, Capcom vs SNK, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, Gurren Lagann, and Full Metal Panic, just to name a fw off the top of my head. Hell, most of Madarame's lines are references to various Gundam series! I think that making Kuji Un such a priority was to make the show more approachable to viewers not a versed in 90s and early 2000s anime culture. I myself first watched the Genshiken anime back in 2008 when I was first getting into the anime scene, and read the manga shortly thereafter. Needles to say, most of the references flew right over my head back then. But I still understood what it was like to become obsessive over a certain show, and how great it was to be able to find someone to talk to about it.
Awesome video, dude. I've been hoping for a video on this manga ever since I saw the episode of Mangapod you appeared in. It was cool seeing you in a less analytical, more lighthearted context there, but it also really made me want to see you do an analysis of this on your own time in your own context and boy did you deliver here.
I especially appreciated how you focused on very specific details (which avoids the video feeling like a set of broad over-generalized assertions) but always managed to tie those details into broader functional concepts. It's a short video but one which uses its runtime effectively, which I always admire.
I loved Genshiken it has special place in my heart watching it with my college anime club and waiting for fansubs makes me super nostalgic cause we use to share and doujin games and tips on buying doujin as well i miss it Q_Q love the manga too i think the anime stands on it's own though even if the manga has a bit more detail i think you can get away with referencing more in manga than in anime
Great job on the Editing, Davoo. Your technique really brought the manga panels to life!
I'm glad that you would promote Genshiken to these disgusting 2010's otaku drenched in post-modernity
lemondere you wanna fight old man?
+exotic Tees "I love the young people"
oldfag otakus unite? .... man this video brings way to much nostalgia of me watching anime even before it went kind of mainstream thanks to toonami and similar shit .... gosh I genuinely feel old
lemondere looks like I should watch Genshiken sooner rather than later then, being an "oldtaku" myself
LoL
I loved this video despite not even knowing what this franchise is. As a film major what I took away from this is how important set design is for setting up a scene or characters. The manga tells you a lot about these characters and people just by all the specific details as you described. Details that busy college film majors (like myself) don't always focus on at all and end up suffering for it. I've seen and worked on to many student productions where it's just basically a white wall in the background and it looks awful.
A lot of the sketch comedy videos that my brothers and I made as teenagers are really distractingly shot in rooms full of anime posters that have nothing to do with the joke lol.
lol well I suppose there's an example of having just the wrong set design.
Great video. Really love the genshiken series since it was always able to make you like your really seeing the unscripted lives of people in this slice of life comedy. One thing I wanted to bring up was how Gigi kept mentioning how Genshiken was a good portrayal of 2002 otaku which implies that they are different from current otaku? I don't really see any big changes in otaku society over the last 15 years though besides the drastic increase in popularity of LN adaption series.
This mangaka has always had the most pain-painstakingly detailed backgrounds. I would spend minutes on panel just absorbing the little details. The anime studio at the time was probably like "!@#$ nope, I ain't drawing that".
Only read/watched it recently, but didn't notice this.
But now that you're pointing it out, it does explain why I enjoyed the manga more.
I fucking love Genshiken, both seasons of both the manga and anime. I watched the anime first so the manga really just served to be a visual treat that added to the world which i caught glimpses of and related to strongly in the early 00s. the only time i had to chance to see exposure to even a small sliver of how thick and loaded that world was always happened at a convention's dealer room, so my own environments matched most closely the anime, but all the same the story was wonderful and through my re-watching/reading over time only served to increase my love of the Genshiken. In fact some of my favorite references were in the second season with Sue being rife with Monogatari references.
Looking at this video just served as a grim and beautiful reminder of the end of the manga...... I love/hate you for doing this to me Digi!
I had never heard of this manga before and I wasn't even interested at first. But somehow you still enthrall me with your writing and editing. I can't even explain out how, but you do really do this the best out of anyone on this website I swear.
I read the manga as it was translated and brought to my library from about 2008-2010. I was right in the age range of the characters and really enjoyed it overall. To this day I still find it hard to find manga/anime with older main characters.
Another manga that has really detailed backgrounds is I am a Hero and in there it also reinforces the general atmosphere of the series and speaks about what is/was happening.
Man, watching this is making me want to re read my Genshiken volumes I brought in its first Italian run, not that there were others.
I've always noticed there was something weird and misplaced between manga and anime but i had never been able to place it, mainly because the time i read the manga and seen the anime were years apart.
Interesting video, but I couldn't help but think the reason the anime's lack luster background was a budgetary one. Looking at the backgrounds for the manga and all those details, My initial thought was "jesus that could have been very expensive for the anime"
Solid work, and I always appreciate attention drawn to Genshiken and the fact that you shouted out Kujibiki Unbalance again puts a smile on my face. More people should check both out sometime.
If I may be so bold, I would highly recommend checking out Pause and Select's side channel for how he constructed his manga presentation. It is absolutely wonderful and would really enhance this video overall to go with the great writing. I wouldn't normally do this, but I would suggest since there's some techniques he uses that could of been used in some segments to give it a bit of an extra oomph! That, and I won't deny using the transparency checkerboard as the background for the panels is a bit jarring. However, that's from someone that stares at it frequently.
I hope you don't mind.
I started off watching the anime first but found myself quickly drawn to the manga and have stuck with that ever since. Though the anime had its merits (the first op and Madarame's voice actor are still some of the more iconic parts of the series) it did feel like it lacked polish in certain parts.
I always felt like it was because they had to expand on the individual scenes that it lost some of its power but its presentation of characters always felt like there was less effort involved there as well. I particularly remember the scene between Ohno and Ogiue where Ogiue was freaking out over being accepted to the Comi-Fest being particularly lackluster in the anime, whereas in the manga it's a pretty unique and powerful conversation.
I finally gave up on the anime after two particular moments. One was a scene where Sasahara is getting Ogiue's work checked by a lady at the Submission's office and there's this really bizarre moment where they make her breasts jiggle as she stands up (the character is a rather plain side character at best, so it's more confusing than fan servicey). It came off as a really patheitc moment of pandering in an otherwise normal transition scene. The other was Angela's terrible Engrish voice acting. Kudos to the VA doing it but it was clear she wasn't well versed in English and so wasn't really suited to the role. Since it was supposed to be an American who couldn't speak Japanese all that well it was painful to see her speaking English badly but doing okay with her Japanese.
Nice, great to see a video about Gehnshiken, the only reason I read the manga was because of you and it's easily one of my favorites!
I don't know. I think that there is a reason for less overall clutter in the backgrounds etc. of the animated series, tbh. The issue with adding a bunch of detail to an animated adaptation is that it has to keep a good pace. The viewer can't slow down and analyze each part of the image in the same way that a reader can when reading a manga. I believe that Digi has talked about a similar concept to this before, but I think it could be said to apply in this case as well. While the stuff being shown in the doujin store, etc. could have remained the same, and more variety overall could have been added to the merch that they show, having overly cluttered backgrounds (which he mentions near the start of the video, high detailed backgrounds should tell a story, etc.) can actually make it really tough for the viewer to decide where to direct their attention. Sometimes, if I run into this, I end up pausing so I don't miss anything. But that obviously pulls me out of the (immersion? - not sure if that is the word I want here). Otherwise, I just end up missing possible important details, though. In this sense, I think a case could be made for minimalism in animated backgrounds. The same could apply to manga and other written works as well if the creators want to keep a certain pacing throughout the piece and believe that over-filled imagery will slow the reader out of this pacing. This is probably most relevant for comedic pieces.
Oh hey, Big Zam.
Have the manga and the anime loved it :)
"take it from someone who's got an anime girl bedsheet stapled to his sealing" good god man!
To be fair. I do not think the manga could be translated into anime as well because of the fact that getting the rights to use all those products in a show is much more resource intensive. Granted I do not know what it takes to produce a show in Japan, but I do know companies are protective of their properties
oh hell yea Digi I love Genshiken, I just started the anime for a friend of mine so he could experience it since reading manga is a little beyond his time or means atm. Nice, still love your videos man keep it up good sir.
love you digi!
Dude. You're me. And I'm you.
hey babe!
0: 0: 0:
deathpresent101 face
I feel like Comic Party was another one that the anime adaptation tooooootally shat on. Those manga giving us a window to how the anime scene was back in the 2000s was what we all craved for, that notion that "otaku" was some sort of status symbol us highschoolers craved. Now we cringe a bit at that thought, but still absorb ourselves in anime in our late 20s-early 30s and bask in the afterglow of what was.
Great analysis and comparison. I'll definitely be checking out the manga thanks to this video. You've sold me on it.
A friend bought volume 1 of the manga for me for xmas many years ago because of how much I loved the anime, but I still haven't read it assuming it was identical to the anime. This gives me a reason to though, thanks.
Concerning the anime, how about that make-out scene?! Never seen anything like that in animation. So many mouth noises! Sure hentai does it to an extreme but there was also an emotional impact behind the scene which made it so much more valuable in my eyes.
TalesOfNerdia this season's Kuzu no Honkai does it as well and it's much more explicit with it's...material, but it sure as hell doesn't have the same impact
Good stuff Digi. I appreciate these analysis on the contrast between franchises' media formats. Kujibiki Unbalance felt a tad bit hamfisted when I watched Genshiken but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Certainly the least interesting element in the show for me. But seeing how it served as a blanket of cultural references to replace a much richer variety of nods to other works that are present in the manga, explains a lot.
Never watched nor read Genshiken but your explanation of it reminded my of Lucky Star. Lucky Star, like Genshiken is very much a period piece that is describing it's year of anime and what otaku were interested in at the time (I think year was 06 or 07).
Oh my god, you just made me wanna read Genshiken all over again.
Holy shit, this guy knows too many classic anime. He knows what he's saying.
I would say that they shifted the focus from ripped off characters from other series to the show within a show would be for copyright reasons, however, japan usually doesn't care about that, so maybe it was to make it easier for localization teams for an international audience?
As someone who is moderately into anime culture (I can't say I'm full on Otaku, I watch anime b'cause I find it fascinating over most mainstream media), as well as someone who has grown on early to late 2000s anime (I love those aesthetics), this series looks extreme fascinating, and intimidating at the same time.
I think some very good points are made here and I wonder if in the anime the producers felt like making otaku culture so seedy would be off putting so it all seems a bit more mainstream, a large department store dedicated to doujin over some seedy little store in some back alley like many doujin stores especially back in it's time. I will always love Genshiken as one of the best manga ever made and I think you really appreciate it if your major otaku years were coming out of the 90's into the early 00's especially if you made your first trip to Tokyo around that time and experienced Akihabara as it was then.
The characters in the show are so relatable that they could be myself or any of my friends and I really like the clash between otaku with their heads in the clouds meeting such a down to earth average girl who shows a new side to them. My only sadness is it ended with no Madarame x Keiko I think I was the only fan of that ship but honestly I think she was so similar to what Saki was just a normal down to earth girl he can really talk to and relax with and I could see him having a normal mature relationship over some dreamy otaku fantasy.
I never pick any of this up, but going back and thinking about it I would say you are correct. Still the anime was really strong and even better in some episodes like the nose hair or when madarame twists his wrist at the convention.
I'm happy that you're finally starting to cover manga material since you've been wanting to for a long time. Both this and the last video make really great points and you've let me see how in different series the adaptation can be better or worse. How long will it be before you can talk about a manga with no anime parallel and still have people care?
we gotta get spongebob back!
whatever you do, dont look back
Kai Mikoshi this won't bring spongebob back
MR CRAABS! We gotta get spongebob back!
we gotta go!
Kai Mikoshi WE GOOOOTA GET SPOOONGE BOB BAAAACK!
HOLY SHIT. You're covering manga!(kinda) God bless Digibro. Hope you do more
Dude, this brings back so many memories, particularly the another manga called "spotted flower"
now that I think about it, Kanon got an adaptation in 2002 and 2006 both years had its own significance to anime culture and the styles of each reflect what was going on in the era well
I've watched genshiken thanks to this video. It's really good. thanks
I'd love to listen to hours of Digi talking about just Genshiken.
Frankly, this is where I get most of my recommendations.
I liked this video. Very informative and also I could tell you did a lot of research on the Manga
Would some of these problems with the anime's background be sited as not being able to license copyrighted materials, like only being able to play one fighting game, for the show. While the manga had carte-blanche.
I'm curious to what extent the limiting to UnBalance for the background artwork was caused by copyright claims
I was totally unaware that the manga was finished. I guess I have something to read now.
I feel every time I watch the anime before reading the manga, the comedic timing feels off, so I didn't read much of volume 1 before giving up on it. The anime overall had a budgety feel and look to it with stiff character animations if I remember correctly, but it used some ambient sound design which was kind of neat. Always felt that Genshiken 2 was about the flip side of Otaku culture which was expanded on from the first season, it also lost a bit of the ambiance also.
They might have changed that stuff in the anime to avoid copyright strikes? Even the crossplay of one character is different in the anime, different regulations between the two media.
this series hits home so much!!! T-T
I wonder if 7:36 poster is of one of AliceSoft's older mascot characters, other than Alice, and the 7:40 looks like Clannad. I'd imagine the issue with the anime is that they straight up couldn't reference (visually) as many series due to budget and legal concerns... that said, it's not really fair to dismiss the anime itself over the manga. Both mediums (for Genshiken) make use of their own strengths (as some of the commenters pointed out).
Do have to ask: what would a modern otaku think of this series, regardless of which medium form of it they encounter. As the series faded into obscurity, just as negativity for otaku-related content, it really makes me think what modern otaku would think of this series (and the by-gone era in general). To think how little tolerance people had for otaku-related stuff less than generation ago, yet now its touted everywhere. The question just keeps repeating itself in my mind.
I've never read Genshiken manga, but anime adaptation was very touching.
everything you've said about the manga and series makes sense. now I want to revisit the manga lol
Referencing copyrighted material in Japanese tv is tricky compared to manga. This is why when an anime show references another property, it’s usually obscured in one way or the other. So it makes perfect sense the references were removed from the anime adaptation. It’s a lot less headache, plus it wasn’t necessary for the story.
Reminds me of deadman wonderland. So many little details cut out that could have made it better, nevermind that it hasn't even finished the story
Hearing you reference Maburaho was like hearing someone reference a hallucination you had years ago. I swear to God it feels like I created that series during a high fever.
I saw the anime (And It's other seasons)
I absolutely love this anime and yes I completely agree with you. Thanks for pointing that out
I'm definitely going to be reading the manga. I was going to anyway because I want to read more into the romances with Madarame especially with the spin off they maid. Thoughts on that btw?
Haha the spin-off was how I discovered Genshiken :P It's just as good as Genshiken, but its kind like an alternative future with an Madaramexsaki ending.
Yeah, Is it any good?
No, they did play King of Fighters XI as well in the show.
This actually takes me back. The time I was an Otaku was precisely the early 2000s. I've given up since by a combination of Real Life, other interests and the sudden popularity of Light Novel adaptations and Moe Girls; but that show seems to reflect my teenage years
I think your critique of the anime dismissed the two ways anime is different than manga: flow, and sound. In the manga, you can stop the action, look at all the details, absorb, decipher, and then move to the next panel. The precise facial expressions help you to remember what's going on as you do so. The anime can use voice to convey a character's mood. Anime creates a story you can rewatch over and over but pausing every ten frames to find details breaks the flow. (Esp if there's any background music).
As for H-Unbalanced, I think the anime had to distill the visual detail (that would be too hard to see as it whizzed by) to one series. H-U is referenced a lot in the "1 Minute Later" manga afterwards. Plus, the treat of having H-U as a "real" cartoon is a big bonus.
yo some plebs said this was boring, I watched it anyway and I loved it. It was really funny. Sounds like I should read it now.
there is a scene later in the manga where the main lead and his girlfriend are flirting on the train. And it was one of the hottest moments I have ever read. It was a quick few lines, but the expressions and delivery were amazing. And I was reading this as it came out so it was awhile ago, but I still remember that scene.
Is it possible that this variety of series' weren't mentioned in the anime version due to copyright issues?
1:58 Here you can see Digi's cameo appearance in the manga.
I've read a few volumes of the manga this past year, and was thinking of watching the anime. With how much it leaves out, is the Kujibiki Unbalance worth watching without the rest of the show if I stick to the manga?
I found the anime first, thanks to a mystery box I got. I rather liked it and it's one of my favorites. I've always been more of an anime fan than a manga fan, so the kind of stuff you talk about here never much bothered me. I took the anime within the anime to simply be a way of getting around potential legal troubles, and after having read the manga now, I still think that's the primary reason for it and the focus on it that you are talking about here. Probably the only reason they got a specific game rather than some parody based on Kujibiki Unbalance is because the studio making the anime was able to work out some kind of a deal for it or it was just otherwise somehow available for them to do so.
The thing is, you are always going to lose something when adapting to screen. A lot of that detail you use as examples from the manga, well, you can sit there and study those panels at your own pace and actually get that out of them (or in my case have the reference be completely lost on me), but in the anime, it would be there and gone in a flash, and given the cost of animating, and that this series probably didn't have a real big budget, I'm not terribly surprised when it comes to the issues you highlighted (such as the poor quality of the backgrounds), and for me that kind of stuff isn't really an issue. I don't know if it's because I tended to watch older anime when I first got into anime and just had that as a fairly typical aspect of it, or if I'm just distracted enough by what the characters are doing or talking about that I just don't pay much attention to it, but there it is.
Will you do a video comparing the two Genshiken manga? That would be amazing.
I remember when all my friends where watching Green Green in 2010, I was watching Genshiken. I thought it was alright. It would be great to get my hands on the manga
Has it really been over 10 years since My Hime aired? The feeling of getting older intensifies every reference now. :p
Did a strike get lifted? I'm glad for the new content on your main channel!
Great video! I'll Definitely check out the manga after I'm done with the anime.
I prefer the anime. I think the anime focuse more on character personality.
I think a *major* reason for the lack of references is *_copyright._*
This video was great - do you plan on making any other videos like this? There are probably tons of anime that lost a lot of substance in the adaptation for the same reason
I love this one
my guess is the anime did not have enough budget for copyright clearence. granted, spoof is fair use, but i think somehow a manga can get away with spoof and prooving fair use mor easily. i could be wrong. also a manga, while still censored has a different censorship standard than a program intended for tv. but as for why the animators opted for sipler painted backgrounds i do not know. perhaps they did not have the same aschtetic sense?
I've never heard of Metal Fighter Miku but I'm not surprised that you have, Digi.
I have cause it's a Shinbo show, and I watched it for the Shinbo in the 90s series.
Digibro akiyuki shinbo is genius
I wanna a 2016 version of this series
7:36
Two examples that I can think of this scenario: where the manga/manhua is better than the anime adaption is Denpa Kyoushi (Ultimate Otaku Teacher), and Desolate Era. Both anime adaption made poor decisions by being visually and emotionally different from the manga/manhua versions. It's even worse when the anime adaption deviates from the original story (although Desolate Era was from a novel, the manhua stayed true to the story direction of the novel).
5:04 Dan Avidan: OH HEY BIG ZAM!
Ah the early 2000's, the years where anime wasn't as big as it is now and I was too young and American to be able to appreciate Galaxy Angel to the extent I do now.
I've just picked up my old Genshiken Manga after many years. It really brings me back to a place and time. I definitely remember the anime being a bit bland in comparison. The budget to do the anime properly was probably just too large.
that puny moe style looks fucking terrifying!
God, I love Genshiken
5:44 "Favorite *Fight Game* Characters"? Really?
Hey guys! Wanna play some _fight games?_
Also, can we take a minute to appreciate "The Champ of Fighters 95" in the blurred section above?
Fucking scanslations.
"Champ of Fighters" was probably copyright avoidance. Most of the manga's direct references have slightly altered names like that. In one frame of this video that shows the Japanese manga you can see Madarame refering to "COF" in English letters.
it was, after all SNK is like nintendo, fully feral into protecting its IP , the "High Score Girl" manga which is criminally underated btw for what I can see in the west was even in the talks of getting animated but it got fully copyfucked by SNK and other similar companies since the manga heavily depends on the nostalgia factor so it cant go playing the parody name game, it used the actual real names of games and characters but Fair Use (in Japan)? the fuck is that fam? .... but seriously Digi,if you haven't checked that manga you should check it, I genuinely loved the whole thing and the artwork really grow up with me since it *not* your nice average looking manga style and maybe spread the word about it so who knows maybe it will get the animation idea worked again
"fight games" is the thug way of saying it and you should respekt it, if you were aware of the fgc you'd know.
Don't you question my fgc cred, boi. I know fitegames better than anyone. #respeck
Hey Digibro have you ever made a video on Welcome to the NHK?