Wata Games SUED in Federal Court
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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Wata Games - the game grading company - is facing a federal class-action lawsuit. We discuss the details and what we think will happen.
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➡More info @kotaku.com/wat...
#wata #gamecollecting #gradedgames
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What do you think about the lawsuit? Do you think it will go anywhere or will business continue as usual for Wata? What about the graded game market? Go to store.munkpack.com/discount/cupodcast and use code CUPODCAST to get 20% off your first purchase! Thanks to Munk Pack for partnering with us!
Even if Wata tanks it probably won't be long till another tries the same thing. Or the crypto bros try their hand at another pump and dump scam.
Hey Pat and Ian, been a fan for a long time. I just wanted to make one clarification on civil jury trials and how many jurors must agree on a verdict. In Federal Civil Suits the 12 person jury verdict must be unanimous. What you were talking about is the evidentiary standard for a burden of proof.
As you said in criminal trials the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.
However, in civil trials the burden of proof is by a preponderance of the evidence. Essentially the jury must determine that with the evidence presented it is more likely than not that the plaintiff's claim is true. basically any percentage greater than 50%. But all 12 jurors must agree.
It is different if this was a California State Civil Suit. That only requires 75% of the jurors agree, so 9 of the 12 jurors must agree.
We don't comment on much but, we know what's going on...
I don't know much about grading stuff, I'm just a collector I'm not looking for value. But this whole wata thing is annoying I'd almost say scam. I mean it's one thing if wata themselves said they couldn't keep up,but they're dumping it on everyone else and as a collector I'd say that is the equivalent of dog poop.
It's the vintage video game Market equivalent of insider trading, plain and simple.
They need to go to prison for fraud.
This is what happens when hobbies becomes investments. Sorry but these people flip hobbies into profits and there's snakes like these in every single hobby. It ruins the fun that actual collectors enjoy.
Makes it expensive not less fun.
@@Dire_Hit depends on your budget for hobbies.
@@Dire_Hit not everyone is upper middle class
@@Dire_Hit it’s less fun cause it’s harder to find. You go to a thrift store that would normally have 1 guy in the video game section, now there’s 18. All just scanning with their phones to resell
It makes niche kinda boring hobbies into fun entertainment tho
lmao wata deserves to get sued if anything, ruining the collecting community
I do not like the employees selling things. They could switch your higher grade game for a lower grade one. So they make more money on your higher grade game that is sealed in a box you can not open to make sure it was the one you sent to them.
Haha Awesome, I was literally just fired from Heritage Auctions because I told them no when they asked me to start doing shady stuff. The Head of our department had already been led out of the company for money laundering 2 months ago.
👀
What did they ask you to do? Now’s your chance to expose your story
@@JTSuter It became a power vacuum, and they were using the lower employees (me and a few others) to sabotage the other group so they couldn't gain the newly opened Movie Posters division that Grey Smith (yeah pretty vague name) left after being led out of the company.
This ultimately hurt Hertiage the company themselves, because the sabotage was stuff like dumping paperwork, misplacing Lots that people had won in auction, and other things that would through wrenches into the mix and slow down operations. I was fired on a day that a huge shipment was coming in that had rare silent movie posters for Lost media (movies that no longer exist in any form). This project was a big deal, and we were told to help out. The OPs lead then told us after the meeting that we would not be helping and instead waste time looking for a single lot that had been missing for around 3 years at that point.
I responded that we were helping to unload the truck, I was told I was disobeying a direct order, was fired on the spot, led out of the building, and all my account info/email/records was then cleaned and deleted within the time it took me to drive home.
Fun Stuff.
So that's why "Mad Dog" stopped talking about video games and started hocking movie posters. Ha.
@@Sejju I've always said, you're not really a good guy unless you're willing to do the right thing and be punished for it. You're a good guy, and I hope you found a company that likes that. They're rare.
I despise graded games...
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of all this pointless grading and the hobby becomes back to what was meant to be, having fun collecting and playing old and new video games.
After WATA I stop to collecting, the hobby is dead, I hate WATA.
@@JohnSmith-zl8rz agree and i hope this makes the bubble of over price games pop
@@waynekline6798 Which games do you consider overpriced?
@@UsernameBlank123 games that say use to be $20 but the rocketed back to its it old retail price like the older cheap ps2 games
@@UsernameBlank123
Pretty much all of them right now.
I really hope there is no settlement out of court. We all want to see their dirty dealings out in broad daylight. That is more valuable than a settlement payout.
I agree with Pat 100%. Halperin is so clearly guilty of shenanigans and I bet that can be made to stick in court on some level.
Are you and Ian a couple ?
I hope that everyone who dove into this & hoarded all these games lose their asses over it.
As long as you keep collection it won't happen
@@UsernameBlank123 that's not how the world works buddy. This isn't a stock. The losses are realized whether they sell or not.
@@Ozhull At the end of the day I'm going to sell my games for a profit whether you agree or not.
I’ve got a big collection
@@UsernameBlank123 I'm only talking about people who hoarded large collections with the intent of making a huge profit. Not for the love of collecting but for the love of greed. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate capitalism but abusers always screw the system up Just like the ass hats at WATA Games.
Everyone who was in on this at Wata,
Needs to do prison time!
No. No. Are prisons are for real criminals who murder and rape etc etc. I know Biden flipped that script and thinks the opposite. But we shouldn’t waste a inch of prison space on this. Simple 20 year probation. 10 year house arrest. No access to internet. Not able to hold a business license. Things like that work well enough.
In a perfect world, Ian would be going to law school and Pat would be an investigative journalist.
Rich tomorrow: the birds are getting sued! Let's get into it.
Oh, wait...
Pat, Ian and Karl Jobst, all stick to their guns and are not afraid to call out liars. All three took a ton of crap for it too in the form of lawsuits and personal attacks, but still justifiably came out on top.
The point isn’t some big conviction . The class action could be for anything , it doesn’t matter. It’s what is unearthed during discovery that will ultimately be a disaster for anyone who broke the law or had a hand in some sort of market manipulation. There’s little to be gained for class members in a potential settlement at face value . All this case does is allow all kinds of records , statements, etc to be subpoenaed by the attorneys going after wata during the discovery phase of this case.
I disagree. The FINAL Judgement and interpretations of statutory and federal law will be the most important part of this case. It will determine the legal aspects of the used market that will last for years to come in how we interpret the law as well as future cases involving this community.
In response to the people with “Sealed game holdings”, umm those people were fools to begin with. Dont feel bad at all for those fools 🤣
The sad thing is that no matter what bad thing wata does people are still sending in their games to be graded.
Wata failure. Let's bankrupt'em
Did you see that guy who went on pawn stars with the NWC carts? Crazy
Grading sealed games is stupid to me. I collect complete in box, and that’s it. Doesn’t have to be mint, but it has to look reasonably nice. I don’t care about grading at all. What matters is my opinion on how nice it looks in my collection.
@@anniemaywholesale3288 if it’s graded and slabbed then I guess it doesn’t really matter what happens to the game inside since it will never be used.
IGC and fines from the 1980s are part of Heritage...
Yep! That’s a BINGO! We lived through it with our coin store. They did more damage than a fat kid in a candy store
Okay Pat & Ian, I ordered three boxes of keto-friendly Munk Packs using your #CUPodcast discount. Probably the first and only time your sponsorship influenced me to buy something
It's the vintage video game Market equivalent of insider trading, plain and simple.
Correction for Kotaku. Population reports are not “estimated guesses about how many sealed items, games in this case, of a certain quality still exist in the wild based on research and past work". They are an inventory of the games WATA has graded.
I remember at one point during the craze around one of the Mario games going for a million that there was some investment app allowing people to "buy shares" of expensive retro games and having , supposedly, some input on the sale of the item or something. I think it was a smaller topic Pat and Ian didn't revisit, but I'm wondering if that company or app is even still in business, or how this lawsuit will affect them. It already sounds scummy to own "shares" of say a famous art piece, but for a graded video game? Yeah, BS. I think it happened right before N*F*Ts blew up so maybe it didn't bother them as much at the time.
Nah, they talked about it, shares anyway in some games. Hopefully that of course they can sell said game for a profit anyway.... They already have a profit from selling the shares in said game, then more profit possibly for the sale of the game.
As soon as a sealed copy of Mario 64 destroyed the record for the sealed copy of OG SMB, I knew it was off.
i hope everything with a WATA grade becomes worth nothing.
I've reached out to a number of authors to news articles about these games being sold at high prices and the incorrect reasoning as to why they are sold so high. I have had 0 response. I'm wondering how many news branches are being manipulated by Jim Halperin.
It's BS to even charge more to grade an item depending on the value. You get the same examination, same plastic slab, same everything. It's a rip-off. The only reason it should cost ANY more is for insurance purposes of it being sent back and forth by whatever parcel carrier is used.
This is common practice in the sports world lol.
This brings me joy
I refuse to pay high prices for games local store has 2 ps1 games on my list both used 100 bucks no way
What an absolute cluster. It's a real shame that there's always a group willing to shit on someone's community and hobby by monetizing it to an absurd degree.
You're likely the same person complaining about gas prices or housing cost, everyone is just trying to make a living.
@@UsernameBlank123 lol, wow want to lick some more corporate shoes? You must work for Wata.
Making a living, just getting by and being filthy rich are the same?
@@tron.44 making a living and just getting by are an absurd degree?
Sad it took this long to get the ball even rolling. I've said this for or a while that Wata was destroying our hobby. Really blows my mind that "gamers" knowingly what's been going on these last few years still taking it upon themselves encouraging what is happening still letting Wata grade their collections? Don't even get me started on these big time TH-camrs doing this same bs with their collections on social media. All of them should be ashamed and need to be called out. Wata is a cancer to gaming....
This price hikes wouldn't happen if these games were available for purchase. Nintendo needs to release physical editions of classic games for modern consoles.
I want to see them all go to prison. Take everything they own and give it to needy people. They've earned nothing but the disdain of the people.
This was the first time I have actively chosen to watch your channel and, with no introduction, am marketed to without any context. I’d like to think this was simply an oversight during your clipping this from a larger streamed event.
"How do I get out now?" is the question every sensible person asks at the end of a bubble. The snake is now eating it's tail.
I feel like the market manipulation is gonna be more of a government case in another couple years after the investors lose their shirts and want their money back because they feel misled
Probably is they would have to try and get them on a RICCO
Now who's going to grade my sealed copy of Chicken Shoot on the Wii?!? 🤣🤣
Pats doing his best positive vibe and the other dude sounds like his dealer ran out of snoochie poochies
Something I'm not sure is being considered is that although it may be harder to prove monetary damages for consumers, the bigger factor for market manipulation is punitive damages. The latter often outweighs the former by a large factor in cases like this.
The art market is full of this kinda slimy behavior too.
Where can I find a copy of the complaint?
Unfortunately, this case will end the way most of this nature do. A settlement will be made and everyone will go about their business. It's unfortunate, but money talks and when you offer someone enough of it to go away, that's inevitably what will happen. Wata made FAR more by inflating the cost to grade for higher prices than they will be "forced" to pay in settlement, so there's no reason to even let this go anywhere. It's unfortunate, cause people like this should get what they deserve. Granted, people that don't know anything about the gaming market shouldn't get suckered into "investing" in this either, but that's another story.
Wonderful news!
it will stop the absurd prices but will forever affect the landscape and introduced more to collecting. So you will see common carts sell for $1-$10 again and then still have the highly hard to find games and still see the $1000 rare carts. The $1,000,000 game is dead.
How much longer til we get that compilation of "Tommy's" calls?
I haven't listened in a couple years, man Ian gained a bunch. COVID did me dirty too. Hope youll turn things around in the future.
You could say that the extended turn around times contributed to losses incurred to the grading submissors; Wata said it would be graded and returned in x time, but it took y time, therefore the plaintiff lost z amount of potential profit.
Oh crap this is big news
BIGBIG
"I can't count the figures."
Seven.
The restitution will be a $5 refund if you bought a service that wasn’t fulfilled. I worked at Circuit City in early 2000s. There was an extended warranty class action lawsuit filed. The remedy for that was $10 off the purchase of your next extended warranty.
There is definitely a market for grading simply for a method in which people can know the condition of what they are buying. Are Wata or even any other existing grading companies appropriate for that? I really doubt it.
But I would love to be able to pay a fee if I wanted to sell a really good condition copy of a game for both seller and buyer peace of mind. But not to artificially inflate game prices, just a much cheaper and cruder thing of we rate this X/10 on condition.
I hope they get the book thrown at them. They are part (not direct, but definitely a noticeable part) about WHY retro game prices are as high as they've been. When people think a Mario game is worth say $50 cib similar games are priced accordingly. When people think a Mario game is worth a MILLION DOLLARS it (to be perfectly blunt) royally fucks up what the prices of similar games should be sold for. I think if this all crashes and burns you'll see the price of retro games drop. Not to cheap, but it wouldn't surprise me if across the board with this nonsense out of the picture if prices dropped by 30 percent to more understandable, reasonable, we of the retro community can all agree upon value. It's assholes like this manipulating the market that makes it so confusing. We all agree a game should be worth a bit of money but when it's a LOT of money and we're all looking at each other like "Did you raise the price? I didn't raise the price? Who raised the price?" that's a problem that should have Prison time attached to it to stamp it out for good.
I like everything Pat is saying here.
How does someone actually join the class action lawsuit? I only see news of it.
I hope Heritage Auctions goes down too. They are so shady and unethical.
won't even come close to happening
Didn’t you appear on Pawn Stars Pat?
I'd be laughing if one of these lawsuits ends up making it to People's Court or any of those TV court shows. Have seen my share of video game lawsuits on The Peoples Court in the past and at times.
When y'all gonna sue CGC?? I'm still waiting almost a year for a comic!
I miss when I could find Gameboys for 20 bucks... now they're so expensive
they got too greedy, there's no reason mario64 should ever go for that price .
Before: 'Get in early!" Now: "Get out get out get out!"
I got in early. Only have less than $100 total invested into WATA at the moment. Still have a Pop 1 title.
@@RetroHabit82 which title
It should go somewhere, but will it?
Most likely not. Ian is right, without hard factual evidence, nothing will stick.
Wata and HA need to be sued!
I just realized I was confusing WATA with WETA. I was like "Boy Pat is being real mean to the Hobbit CGI folks"
And here all I did was confuse WATA with NAMBLA
@@jimmyt7233 Maybe they'll mention how WATA sounds like WETA in that article about why people don't like WATA.
Oh wow what happened to jd harmeyer from Howard Stern? He aged horribly
I think the trial is going to end with Jim Halperin on the stand. And the lawyer is going to say did you order the code red? And Jim is going to say you're damn right I did.
Why is the guy from the office on the stand?
@@salvagemonster3612 🤣
Grading is a joke for games and cards, right there is when you know someone is only into it for the money 💰
Well cards I can kinda get. Let me explain. Cards are two sided so the can be enjoyed even when they are slabbed. The slabbing also adds some very good protection from air, water, folds, etc damages. So can understand protecting them. As the over the counter plastics don’t offer quite the same.
Just waiting for the Demented Dentist (aka Pats #1 fan) to chime in and try and defend this😂
Damn you Jim Halpert.
Wata mess this is
SEEEEAALLED!!
CGC is next if this lawsuit wins. Allot of disgruntled customers there too.
1/15th of this video is advertisment. Start video at 2:00
My WATA graded Amico controller is gonna go for big bucks!
Intresting to follow. Will gamers defend there market from becoming a bubble and overall dirty business.
Hey Pat, we’re you on Pawn Stars? 😂
This is great!!
Trash company, ruined the market. Time to kick him to the curb
Jesus Fuck with the ad at the beginning guys! Keep em shorter
Every single retro collector knows there’s something very hinky going on with the graded games market. Doesn’t mean illegal behavior can be proved in court.
Oh it can. With computer searches and forensic accountants etc. I don’t think these boys are that smart. See he got his pee pee slapped back before you were born for some shady auction stuff. So he isn’t very bright
I hope WATA and heritage burn to the ground. Greasey, greedy, gullible and getting got.
Free the games!
He needs to look after himself!!
They are running a counterfeiting ring, they have someone who is an expert at shrink wrapping, then this man is shrink wrapping reproduction copies, then they are grading them and permanently sealing them, knowing that no one is ever going to open both the hard shell, and the factory shrink wrap, to figure out that the game is a reproduction. They are artificially inflating prices for games, then they are having numerous counterfeit copies of these games manufactured. This is why you see them selling games, when they are supposed to be in the business of grading them, because the only reason to artificially inflate the of price of something, is when you have easy access to a large supply of it.
Deniz Khan and Jim Halperin should be fined millions and be put behind bars for insider trading.
Price charting doesn’t show eBay sales that go under average,retro market stands to take a big hit
Every time I hear Munk Pack I think of weed lmao
Save games arent the only thing that can be corrupted
I think they should be shut down too there making retro video games go up in prices they make me mad I hope they go out of business
They should go to prison, but I think Ian is right and Wata will probably settle.
He was dinged before
Pumping prices.
Good
glad this happened let justice be served
I heard they gonna move the court to Colorado because there's no lawsuit for defamation.
If WATA is smart, they should settle.
I know, IF.
I can't eat nuts
Ironically, if Wata is shut down, someone will claim the rarity of sealed games contained in Wata graded cases.
Ehhh seen in the 90’s when a certain company coin grading was exposed. I can remember sitting at buddies coin store cracking open them slabbed company coins. He had guys flooding in wanting refunds and others trying to get something out of them. We had so many come in , in a week. He started paying just scrap on them. People were happy to sell. Difference is, a silver coin is still 90% silver. A Nintendo game or vhs is just a lump of plastic that will take 1000 years in a landfill to break down
Unethical doesn’t necessarily mean illegal. A lot of the things they did are predatory, and they got a lot of money from a lot of people, but that doesn’t make it illegal. People making stupid investments aren’t necessarily protected.
Also, it’s seven figures, Pat.
Oh no they getting sued wata Tragedy