If there's one thing Skyrim has taught me, it's that if you give the players the ability to change things, they will create 17 entirely new games for free.
As an OSRS modder and full-time web developer, I agree with the need for modding tools (a public-facing server-side API). IMO, they haven't put this on their roadmap or mentioned it because of the insane amount of work required. Project Zanaris is a baby-step towards a larger goal. Creating a robust server-side modding API, like the client-side API that Runelite uses will take years of dev work-hours and a lot of money. Zanaris will make a very basic server-side API; Lua scripting will take a lot more work on top of this. I think project Zanaris is laying the groundwork for future modding tools. The devs want to make it, but because they need to give a reasonable timeline to get funding from their higher-ups, this is what we're getting for now. While the initial release might seem basic AF, it serves multiple purposes: It's addressing a likely mountainous level of technical debt while generating revenue for the higher-ups, and provides a foundation for more advanced features like Lua scripting, which require a mature API. BTW, what you're suggesting with just straight-up providing their codebases for private servers is VERY different from providing an API & would be a botters' paradise. They would have to go fully open-source with the main game for that to be remotely feasible, and from a short google search I have found 1, ONE MMO that does this, and it has around 12 concurrent players, 200ish total. It hasn't been done before at this scale. It'd be amazing, but.. it's not going to happen. Love the video btw, I've been thinking about this topic a lot myself.
PZ being the groundwork for a better (actual) API makes a ton of sense. It gives them an incredible way to judge community interest while also creating a revenue source which can be used to iterate on PZ. Another extremely refreshing aspect of this project is that its being created by an entirely separate team. Being able to keep those same people focused on PZ by itself creates even more growth opportunities. Patience is key here.
We need modding tools. Project zanaris will be dead content very quickly without them. Sadly mr monki asked them to add them which means they’ll never come since they always do the opposite of what he says. o7 to project zanaris I fear
@ was a joke brother chill no need for the toxicity, and they should care about his opinion tho because a lot of people share the same opinion. He just has the ability to be more vocal about it. Look at the comments, it’s not just him who wants these things.
Warcraft 3 is perhaps the best example (besides Roblox) of this model working. It spawned many popular stand alone games that came from the modding community within that game. The most popular two being League of Legends and DOTA2 both stemming from a custom game called "Defense of the Ancients" Gnomonkey is correct, either give us the tools to build new ideas in some way or don't do the project at all. Being scared of scripter/botter /bug abuse/code abuse is an absolutely valid concern, if they can the project for that reason I would understand, but no point going half ass.
Corporate saw the numbers behind private servers, saw a potential for some money, then told the crew to make it happen. Dev crew is now stuck holding the bag to try and make it happen
I think the model for this is what I suggested Blizzard should have done for WoW before they launched classic: License the tools and rights for money, allow the server hosts to charge for things and Blizzard takes a cut from this too. That way, Blizzard does 0 work and collects rent; Private server hosts get to host a server without knowing that Blizzard would shut it down; People get to play a server that doesn't have to rely on kickbacks from illicit services and build progress without worrying it getting taken down. All in all, everyone wins. Essentially, the Roblox model.
The one thing I want Project Zanaris for above all else is being able to super easily learn bosses & test stuff risk-free. There's a whole lot of content in the game which people don't interact with because it's hard to learn or understand (especially if you don't have max gear), this could open that up for a lot of people.
not really, thats kind of what Leagues is about... How will it help noobs in the main game that are poor? They are going to "learn" on these busted servers with gear / power that they do not have on the main game. Then whaT?
@@jackhofalot6705 Leagues is a time-limited gamemode that locks you to certain regions lol, it is NOT targeted at teaching you all the game's content. That is a braindead take. And yes, that's exactly what noobs can do. Who cares if someone learns TOB in max gear vs low level gear? It doesn't affect your gameplay at all. The point is that it opens up options for people to do what they want to do.
this is very right it would be amazing to get some ring that made you invulnerable and then a dart that you could make it hit an exact amount of damage, and the you just go into zuk and practice just healers or whatever one of the biggest issues people have in pvm is that usually the end of the fight is the hardest part, and then to add onto that there's nerves and stress cuz if you fumble now you basically wasted the last few minutes getting there just one leagues lately I met so many people who don't have an internal cape or a fire cape on main game cuz nerves take hold when the big man spawns, then death, then log out
@@aTypicalGabriel ?????? There's no way you aren't trolling. No you don't get to just practice Zuk for free LMAO. That's literally the entire fucking point of the inferno. Go pay 80 dollars for your cape instead of trying to degrade an achievement that many people are proud of/aspire towards. It has already become easier and easier throughout the years. This is OSRS, we are all in our 20's and 30's, if nerves are preventing you from playing a video game its mental retardation and it should not be catered to
I don't think they'll be able/willing to give world hosts anywhere near the freedom they would have with a private server. Not to mention the monetization of RSPSs incentivizes creativity to attract and retain players. This sounds a lot like "we want you to create new content for us for free"
I do not want or care about this. But. If Jagex is serious about this being a thing, you’re completely correct. It’s a half measure. That’s part of the reason I’m not super interested. If they promised, and provided tools so someone with no experience making games,like myself, could make fun stuff in my favorite game my interest would increase considerably.
Yeh i would go from "never gonna touch this aside from maybe the odd occassion where i join in with a unique fun idea for a short term server from a creator" to "i would probably rent my own server to work on skilling activity ideas etc."
That's not gonna happen. Simply because programming isn't something that simple. They can't make this mario maker and still allow you to create truly "new" things. Unless you are willing to learn properly you won't be doing more than tweaking numbers I'm afraid
My thoughts are that they will never give us access to code just like how they cracked down on runelite originally cracking open the client. (the issues would be botters, code vulnerabilities, being able to check content on launch to figure out mechanics/drop rates). If they don't push updates the servers will primarily be used as either sims/pk servers. If they do push mod tools 100% they will claim ownership over player generated content to be able to use it (much like how blizzard implemented a new eula in warcraft 3 - they were salty over not owning dota). A couple of other issues I could see as well the servers would be 2,000 players max, the banning/muting options some how accidentally being universal instead of just the private servers, if game updates are implemented will it wipe any of the player generated content since it pushes a version of the game on top. This will be a full time project like publishing a new game cause of the all systems that will need to built from the ground up or this will die faster than darkscape.
Really well thought out video. There's still so much we can speculate about but you've hit some talking points that most people haven't thought of. The risk vs reward of 'unleashing the flood gates' is significant. I barely play this game anymore, haven't done so in years, but I'm really interested to see how this is implemented.
I'm so glad we can finally agree on something. But the real reason Project Zanaris won't work is because toxic elitists like yourself will charge us $69 a month for slower xp rates.
imo the best thing to do would be to bring leagues XP multiplier to main game, then have the current main game exported to zanaris servers so sweatlords can continue grinding while everyone else moves to the modern era
What a good insight and perspective to project Zanaris. On the other, I would say project Zanaris if given the ability to bot, would allow Jagex to further scrutinize how bots are made and potentially get them banned in main game. However, this would mean getting more devs involved in project zanaris to study and figure out how bots are behaving in a controlled setting to then trying to single them out in main game.
Love the video and what you’re putting forward here and agree with you on the monetisation - A few notes to clear some things up that you may have missed on previous news posts: 1. Moderation: The server owners will be able to ban/mute people for various reasons 2. Pay to win - They’ve addressed that their definition of Pay to win is as such: Cannot pay real $ to get items/gold/advantages in the servers. They haven’t really mentioned monetisation in terms of paying to play on the server to help owners pay for costs. This would also prevent server owners from charging for an “unban” on their server to stop any corruption involving Osrs players money. 3. No Cheating/Going against TOS: just means they’ll probably have their bot detection run on these servers to prevent botting (LOL @ their ability to prevent bots in main game) and things such as racism/exploits etc. I’d assume they would just have a flat no botting rule as the accounts people play on will be through their jagex account and potentially would be punished on their entire RSN if detected cheating by the systems rather than a manual ban placed by server owners. 4. They said they are wanting players to be able to create their own content, as for how far down the line that would be they haven’t said.
100% agree. Project Zanaris is the perfect opportunity for Old School to truly live up to its "community-driven game" ideal and bring in tons of new players, but only if they give us full mod access (in a "safe" way, of course, that doesn't open the floodgates to main game exploits)
One thing I'd love to see, and it can't happen if servers can't opt out of having the rules enforced by Jagex, is like a weekly reset server, maybe with some kind of PvP or something to determine a winner. No rules enforced or anything. Basically a bot optimization game. Whoever can write the best bot for maximizing gains in a week wins. That would be really fun just to observe.
Great video. Had no idea what Project Zanaris was and you laid out the facts, gave an informed opinion, and spoke your mind freely on the topic. To answer your question, I think more unscripted videos with a specific topic or two from you similar to this one would be cool in the future. Subbed
Yea, the thing I think that is scaring Jagex from making this something that could actually take off is, as you say, handing the keys to the car. I can see why they are afraid to do that, considering the car might end up driving off a cliff if the kids they hand them to aren't the brightest and most well intentioned.
I dont hate the idea of project Zanaris but idk it feels... wierd. What i really dont understand is why should jagex host zanaris servers? That feels so wierd. We can have alternative profiles in the main game. Why do we need Zanaris for that?
This makes me think of games like project zomboid, dayz, arma reforger, and many others, where the devs give modders the keys to the castle and encourage them to make things for the game. That is the life blood of any game I have played with community servers, and I hope Jagex understands that this is going to be a scary but necessary step in order to have these not be a long term flop
100% Mr. Monkey, the ideas are limitless and could absolutely be good for the game. If something becomes so popular, bam free idea for the game. Give the people the freedom and gold will definitely come
They might be trying to add private servers in a similar method to how overwatch added custom games, initially they added only parameters, like damage, speed, jump height multipliers, and allowed you to customize these parameters per team and per character. They kept extending it until eventually they added a visual scripting language that allowed adding new rules to the game. Ive seem people make some pretty interesting gamed with the limited tools provided in Overwatch so im not too deterred by Jagex's overuse of the term "parameters", if it allows them to release something sooner to properly guage public interest and progressively add more to it. I think a Lua scripting api is the ideal but i dont think we need that on launch, hopefully they can reuse some of the tech used for official client plugin system.
Thing with OW is that they have the Dev power + resources to do things "later", Jagex just doesn't so I don't think that way of doing it will work for them.
@@GnomonkeyRS A key thing to keep in mind is part of what Zanaris is for the studio is essentially paying a tools development (and code refactoring) team. Just adding "parameters" is requiring them to clean up the code in significant ways. So it's the kind of things that will speed up development on the main game. Likewise, I don't think we'll be seeing discussion about custom content development until the C++ client has the Lua API. My suspicion is Lua is going to become a staple of the OSRS team to move away from RuneScript.
This format is great and I agree with your thoughts. I foresee Jagex releasing Project Zanaris without the necessary modding tools, but them adding it after community feedback post launch.
I'm a big fan of these servers being a way to make a boss and see how it works. Some people have cool ideas in concept but then you think hard about it and they're terrible. So, instead, someone could use this to make a boss, show off how it'd *actually* work and function and then it'd be a better way to show off a new boss idea, minigame, activity, etc. So, I'm behind Project Zanaris if they do what you say and make it extremely moddable. I think their big fear, though, is people having access to their code. So, they'd have to do something like Bethesda does with their GECK and provide a toolkit that can mod without directly showing the code (maybe a bad example cause it's Bethesda but you get the idea). I think parameters will be cool for like 30 days and then people will forget about it. So, best to just full send and make it moddable so people can *really* do stuff.
Unscripted is always better. Raw ideas are the ones that people resonate with the best. Feels like a business meeting of pure unique thought process, over assuming someone is taking a biased approach. Love it, and I thoroughly appreciate you for making one like this Brother👍🏽
LWOTC for XCOM 2 comes to mind. Completely changes the game and enemies and drops and stats and so much more. Makes it an entirely different game and adds massive replay ability
Yes, I liked this format of this video. Just listened to the video, put my headphones on and went on with my day. It was well thought out even if it wasnt scripted
All i want out of Zanaris: - Creator tools to make new items / pvm encounters / activities and skilling methods - this is the way i see myself actually returning to Zanaris and using it frequently - Fun minigame stuff like Prop hunt, Gielinor Games minigames etc. - Creator driven events like Battle Royale, Area restriction mode, tileman mode etc. Short term servers where we essentially have "community made" events and leagues / DMM. I think this sort of removes some of the magic of official leagues/DMM's, but i see this being the biggest long-term benefit of this system (Creators hosting events with their fans being actually involved, not just creators). I don't have any interest in playing permanent private servers for "unofficial official" support of modes like tileman, area restriction, perma-leagues etc. I won't touch any server like that. I'd rather just play the main game.
my idea was that a nice workaround would be to: Enforce a Jagex Provided Allow Servers to enforce plugins, including server exclusive plugins Allow these plugins to modify in game stuff, essentially modding in content. These plugins could very well communicate outside of the server to help to It's a huge undertaking probably to allow players to inject their own stuff directly right away. I understand that. These types of much easier workarounds exist that they could implement much faster. "Creative style tools" alongside such mandatory plugins would also help with modded stuff as well. I've personally pushed this as an idea to help get us to actually unique fun content as soon as possible - my primary want is a randomizer with a goal being to beat something like Jad or Zuk, or a Grandmaster Quest. Think Leagues style progression but entirely random in terms of what rewards what as well as chunk locking.
I really like the idea of being able to take the game world and create a custom RPG session for friends or decouple the questing experience from the rest of the game for people who are really into that. maybe it's just a pipe dream to play runescape with friends who aren't that into runescape but pipedreams will be pipedreams. another angle i find really compelling is that this opens the possibility that the zanaris core can be community maintained separate from the core game in the distant future if jagex decides to no longer host the game themselves and osrs can avoid the live service graveyard
For the Pay to win disclaimer, it also said "anything that goes against the rules of runescape" this would mean any form of monetization as that would result in RWT and thus a violation of TOS
Amazing how they have been making a great effort over the years to achieve the awesome game osrs is now, and now for asome reason they just decided to break it. History really does repeat itself.
Most likely parameter = configuration value like "xp multiplier" or "quests enabled true or false". But these really don't sound like modding tools. I am almost 99% certain that what you can do will be super limited. Also "no pay to win" just means that you can't pay to win in the server. But it doesn't mean creating a custom server is free.
i want to see player made raids and skills giving devs the power to completely change the game would be amazing, even to the extent where server devs can have open source repo's for the custom content on their server like other games. (nexus/github/modrinth/steam workshop)
I could so, so easily see the mom(Andrew Gower)'s spaghetti code being so full of undiscovered, yet also un/extremely difficultly patchable bugs that releasing it would be a non-option
An example of where these servers will come into play, and specifically the appeal to myself and my friends is that they don't have a lot of time to commit to some of rs longer grinds, they want to create a private server to enjoy the game but with increased xp rates so we can enjoy late game content sooner etc
9:40 Spot on analysis of the crux of the issue "Jagex cannot be the ones adding these "Parameters" long-term. They are not going to devote the dev time necessary to give us what we want." 100% agree that the only way RSPS work is with public access to the game engine or a tool to indirectly edit/access it.
I loved private servers after EOC released and if it wasn’t for mobile osrs I’d probably have never came back and still be playing them. I’m rather excited to see what the community can produce after the fun I had before returning to osrs.
I genuinely hope the pricing for these servers is insanely high. Like so high that nearly no standard players should be able to do this. Otherwise it will be horrible. It needs to be a big money maker for jagex if they do this.
From a programmers perspective, what your asking for is highly unlikely to happen without some massive investment from Jagex side OR Jagex making (almost) the entire server side source code available. One rather simple thing they could do, would be to setup some type of requirements to play, for example runelight + some specific set of mods. Then you don't need all that stuff serverside, but can keep it client side.
When you commented on what an economy entirely of bots would looks like… Have you logged into a main in a while? Look at the price graph of blood shards lol
i 100% agree. we need the ability to edit maps and basically everything else, kinda like minecraft/roblox/fortnite. theres no point releasing it just with the ability to change a few "parameters".
One of the main reasons they're probably hesitant to give full engine access is because of some sort of copyright or it could be trying to avoid people making way more sophisticated bots in main game after knowing ins and outs of engine. I agree should give dev tools but should be in some sort of controlled way to avoid these issues. I think Gary's mod is a good example tho
this has potentially the biggest upside possible for the game if we end up getting modding tools & jagex skims the cream off the top for ingame content. theres like a 90% chance were just getting perma league servers, but I have hope this could be very good for the game in the decades to come.
The bot one is a great idea, Jagex could study this “incubator” and learn more about real game bots while letting players go crazy in the private server.
I also love the idea of “long running beta worlds”, I would love to trial polls before they go live to see their real world impact before going live, etc.
You’re absolutely right. Imagine if Garry’s Mod was just Counter-Strike Source with a few customizable parameters like movement speed or player hp. Without modding tools they’re doomed!
I think if they're small enough changes on launch that community servers only live for temporary TH-camr driven "Leagues" or even restricted all stars type deals that is more hands off for Jagex, that's fine. Of course ideally we get quest building, boss adding, etc but just tweaking parameters might be enough for the start
I grew up playing RuneScape and private servers. I've played both for over 15 years, my favorite servers were the ones who did something different. I also liked the mystery boxes that had items that weren't achievable in game. But you could buy those boxes and sell them in game, so you really didnt have to spend the money if you didn't want. This has the potential to do Minecraft or Roblox level of success, but they've got to open it up and let these people run wild. I'd love to see the owners of Runewild, Spawnpk, whatever other private server come and make something awesome just like they did previously.
100% agree that they need whats available to be 10x or 100x what theyre promising regarding "server parameters". The only thing I'd say you were a little out in left field about was the monetization. From what it sounds like in the stages call I was on, its not that they don't know how Jagex is going to monetize these, they just cant give specifics because they don't have firm estimates to cost and development yet. I definitely agree that theres not a lot of prioritization on allowing server hosts to monetize which I agree is vital to long term longevity for these servers. My biggest fear is that theyll release with like 5 parameters which would let you make some servers from popular series and a leagues style game mode and the project flops and its shut down or goes on life suport like quest speedrun worlds. My only hope is that they dont shutter it before it gives access to scripting events. I have hope though that even with very limiting guardrails in place like parameters, that people are creative and alongside client side modding like runelite and the upcoming source client plugin hub, that there are some novel ideas that come out of these servers. But dear lord if they release with like, "ironman mode but you cant pick up ground items either", or "only Morytania" modes I'll scream. We need access to make things that aren't doable by self imposing on the main game.
Even though I am extremely curious to see community content coming alive I am a little hesitant in opening up multiple ways to play the game, one of the main characteristics that sets OSRS apart is the progression system, spending months if not years to build your ironman or main account is exactly what makes the game valuable and rewarding to continue. If we shorten that attention span by providing loads of content separated from the main game I think this will hurt the community in the long run. Not to mention commercialization will become messy, extremely quickly.
Great video. I agree with tons of the points u made abt Project Zanaris, mainly about how other games like MineCraft and Roblox allow their players to be creative with building their own world and community. When it comes to players following the 'rules' of the game, I think as long as we aren't doing gambling or other illegal things online, we should b good. (edit: Gnomonkey unscripted vid was good 2 watch)
one of the biggest issues i see with project zanaris is monetizarion if playing prop hunt with my clan once a month costs me 9€ a month then there's no fucking chance im paying for that... plus, are we gonna pay for access to the full service? or pay per server we want to play on? maybe pay per host and the host gets a portion of the revenue so that hosts have a reason to keep servers fair, fun and keep them clean? maybe only hosts pay, so if my group of friends wants to do prop hunt then we all put in a little money and buy the server for a month and ofc, TH-camr ran events where some content creators wants to do a "castle wars but you cant tell whos on each team, team kills are allowed , and everyone has a 1 shot dagger", will eveeyone need to pay? just the youtuber? maybe both parties?
Honestly, this will be the only thing keeping me playing Osrs. I'm an adult, I don't have time to grind 20-50 hours just to get one skill high enough to do a quest. It's insane how bad the grind is. I plan on finding a server with x5-x8 xp rates/drop rates and just keep the rest the same. I think these servers will bring in a ton of players like me that ONLY play during leagues
The whole talk of only giving players certain parameters is the safest thing they can do and keep the scope of the project small. Like you said, if they give players engine code and open the flood gates, osrs isn't really ready for that sort of thing because there's so much spaghetti and jank going on in osrs. In my opinion, osrs is actually such a simple game. If you want a game with community modding and making the game more abstract, they should recode the game from scratch so that they have a clean base and clean engine to give the players. But that's scope for a more larger project.
The only problem with bot servers is unless the server removes all the old anti-botting checks. People will use it as a test bed before moving to the main game. But if they allow the old bots to work. People would very less likely to make new bots when the old defunct ones that no longer work on main works just fine is private.
I think it’s one of the best ideas ever, seems really cool. I most likely will never use it, but it would bring fun and cool things and even new streamers to the game which would be good thing for the game…. But in terms of logistics I have no idea lol.
That is literally the only use for Project Zanaris. To practice raids and bosses without using up billion of golds in the main game. If not why the fuck would anybody play Project Zanaris? I don't have the time to play leagues and barely enough to play my main character.
This should be part of the base game in general. Did you make it to the boss? Cool, now do the boss until you actually get it right, THEN go do the real thing. being able to practice the parts where you choke in these long grindy wave based games like inferno/colosseum should have been a thing ages ago.
If they don't allow monetising a project zanaris instance by the owner/developer of the instance. Why would a dev team move away from a full private server where they can monetise it and script/mod whatever they want, towards an environment where they'll likely be able to do less and not receive any compensation.
I think you're right. The success of MineCraft modded worlds and such is proof. Like, yeah Mojang has their own modified versions through Windows/bedrock editions, but all the real/adult gamers are playing some crazy custom packs like Prodigium Reforged MC.
i'm pretty neutral on all of this stuff, don't really care one way or the other. But essentially open sourcing OSRS would be fucking amazing. Though i really don't see this coming to fruition the way most people that support this see it, they're still a pretty big company and have share holders that may get scared over a lot of this stuff. You're 100% right on your points here.
I want my own server so I can play at a reasonable xp rate and run content without being crashed. That’s all I want from this. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.
Modding tools needed. Although I would love to be able to access different servers where people are able to create an 'Original' RuneScape to bring back those players. For example: OSRS '07 before all the updates (to make an account based around that timeline) Another would be to make Servers based on learning the games mechanics. Learning Tile Markers, Tick Timings and so on... I know they can do it, but the question is WILL they do it. But as we know Jagex, it'll take them months, EVEN YEARS; before they allow US as the community to have access to things they don't want to give out.
People seem to forget that private servers are already a thing and that some of the custom content on these private servers is insane. I'm thinking Jagex wants to take some of that market share back because it is hard to ignore the amount of people that engage (spend money) with private servers but not OSRS.
1 global bank account, everyone shares it. You can only drop, sell or alch items if you were the original person that received it as a drop. You can process an item and then drop sell or alch the output.
Im seeing a custom server where you are region locked at boss monsters with max gear or quest servers with teleporters to quest locations. I just dont understand how they plan on stopping bot abuse since they are having such a hard time with the servers they have.
i agree with all this, i believe the devs want to jsut give us incredibly limited stuff, very much recycled code from leagues, where we just get a fancy UI where you can make scythe 2 tick and thats it i think the best approach would be for jagex to not give us the full code, jut instead give us edited and modular parts of the code that then tweaks the game, this is a ton of work for them tho
100% right on everything, modding support would be huge for this game. All zanaris is going to do as of now is make jagex not release leagues playercount data next year once nobody has any reason to play it. When a custom, adjustable and private variant is around all year long it will probably make a decent dent in leagues playerbase next season. But maybe that is all jagex wants, why get these people who come around for 8 weeks a year max when you can give them leagues all year round AND charge them for it? I dont feel so good boss :( But I'm optimistic they will listen to the community and will delay this release until it gets sorted and in a a place of its own.
Great take overall, just one note to anarch yservers idea: Jagex is constantly actively fighting bots, and it's a very uneven fight, near impossible to win. Giving bots a way to run rampant on a server with no restrictions is effectively buffing them in the real game. They get a safe environment to test new metas, tools, and then they can just port it back into the main game. Bad idea for preserving osrs' integrity.
I agree 100% with Gnom, unless jagek lets us make custom content, custom game modes, custom bosses, custom, custom, custom, this project will just be a HUGE waste of time and will fail. Here is the answer to jagek - do or die! (*drops mic, walks off*)
I am still confused what are Jagex trying to achieve here. Are they trying to achieve something like a Dota2 with some pay to access custom game modes? Or is this like the recent Maplestory Worlds where developers can take assets, use the underlying lua framework and develop their own game modes?
If there's one thing Skyrim has taught me, it's that if you give the players the ability to change things, they will create 17 entirely new games for free.
This is why they shut down most private servers.
100% behind the idea if we get modding tools, fan made mini games would be lit
Think Halo 3 custom games... IM SOLD
@@zachariah7114 Warcraft 3 custom games were industry changing too
Damn, Ellen is looking GOOD these days
IKR. Thats a lesbian haircut if I ever saw one.
Gottem 😂
As an OSRS modder and full-time web developer, I agree with the need for modding tools (a public-facing server-side API). IMO, they haven't put this on their roadmap or mentioned it because of the insane amount of work required. Project Zanaris is a baby-step towards a larger goal.
Creating a robust server-side modding API, like the client-side API that Runelite uses will take years of dev work-hours and a lot of money. Zanaris will make a very basic server-side API; Lua scripting will take a lot more work on top of this.
I think project Zanaris is laying the groundwork for future modding tools. The devs want to make it, but because they need to give a reasonable timeline to get funding from their higher-ups, this is what we're getting for now.
While the initial release might seem basic AF, it serves multiple purposes: It's addressing a likely mountainous level of technical debt while generating revenue for the higher-ups, and provides a foundation for more advanced features like Lua scripting, which require a mature API.
BTW, what you're suggesting with just straight-up providing their codebases for private servers is VERY different from providing an API & would be a botters' paradise. They would have to go fully open-source with the main game for that to be remotely feasible, and from a short google search I have found 1, ONE MMO that does this, and it has around 12 concurrent players, 200ish total. It hasn't been done before at this scale. It'd be amazing, but.. it's not going to happen.
Love the video btw, I've been thinking about this topic a lot myself.
PZ being the groundwork for a better (actual) API makes a ton of sense. It gives them an incredible way to judge community interest while also creating a revenue source which can be used to iterate on PZ. Another extremely refreshing aspect of this project is that its being created by an entirely separate team. Being able to keep those same people focused on PZ by itself creates even more growth opportunities. Patience is key here.
What MMO has 12 concurrent players lmao
We need modding tools. Project zanaris will be dead content very quickly without them. Sadly mr monki asked them to add them which means they’ll never come since they always do the opposite of what he says. o7 to project zanaris I fear
it will probably be good eventually but take years
It doesn't make any sense without proper modding.
The plan is to add tools to create assets
They don't care about the opinion of one player. Stop being para-social.
@ was a joke brother chill no need for the toxicity, and they should care about his opinion tho because a lot of people share the same opinion. He just has the ability to be more vocal about it. Look at the comments, it’s not just him who wants these things.
Warcraft 3 is perhaps the best example (besides Roblox) of this model working. It spawned many popular stand alone games that came from the modding community within that game. The most popular two being League of Legends and DOTA2 both stemming from a custom game called "Defense of the Ancients"
Gnomonkey is correct, either give us the tools to build new ideas in some way or don't do the project at all. Being scared of scripter/botter /bug abuse/code abuse is an absolutely valid concern, if they can the project for that reason I would understand, but no point going half ass.
Imagine a zanaris server where you're forced to always do t2 prep
The /r/ironscape dream
NO GOD PLEASE
can't wait for the t3 prep only
This is a gauntlet mini game reference for those out of the loop
Corporate saw the numbers behind private servers, saw a potential for some money, then told the crew to make it happen. Dev crew is now stuck holding the bag to try and make it happen
It's a different team, they aren't dev members.
@@Kisamefishfry They're still devs and they're still holding the bag
@@djinn9488 they have always been stuck tho, since the team was hired exclusively for this
they pull those 7 figure profit numbers cuz of p2w
100%
I think the model for this is what I suggested Blizzard should have done for WoW before they launched classic: License the tools and rights for money, allow the server hosts to charge for things and Blizzard takes a cut from this too. That way, Blizzard does 0 work and collects rent; Private server hosts get to host a server without knowing that Blizzard would shut it down; People get to play a server that doesn't have to rely on kickbacks from illicit services and build progress without worrying it getting taken down. All in all, everyone wins.
Essentially, the Roblox model.
The one thing I want Project Zanaris for above all else is being able to super easily learn bosses & test stuff risk-free. There's a whole lot of content in the game which people don't interact with because it's hard to learn or understand (especially if you don't have max gear), this could open that up for a lot of people.
not really, thats kind of what Leagues is about... How will it help noobs in the main game that are poor? They are going to "learn" on these busted servers with gear / power that they do not have on the main game. Then whaT?
@@jackhofalot6705 Leagues is a time-limited gamemode that locks you to certain regions lol, it is NOT targeted at teaching you all the game's content. That is a braindead take.
And yes, that's exactly what noobs can do. Who cares if someone learns TOB in max gear vs low level gear? It doesn't affect your gameplay at all. The point is that it opens up options for people to do what they want to do.
this is very right
it would be amazing to get some ring that made you invulnerable and then a dart that you could make it hit an exact amount of damage, and the you just go into zuk and practice just healers or whatever
one of the biggest issues people have in pvm is that usually the end of the fight is the hardest part, and then to add onto that there's nerves and stress cuz if you fumble now you basically wasted the last few minutes getting there
just one leagues lately I met so many people who don't have an internal cape or a fire cape on main game cuz nerves take hold when the big man spawns, then death, then log out
This is every beta test
@@aTypicalGabriel ?????? There's no way you aren't trolling. No you don't get to just practice Zuk for free LMAO. That's literally the entire fucking point of the inferno. Go pay 80 dollars for your cape instead of trying to degrade an achievement that many people are proud of/aspire towards. It has already become easier and easier throughout the years. This is OSRS, we are all in our 20's and 30's, if nerves are preventing you from playing a video game its mental retardation and it should not be catered to
I don't think they'll be able/willing to give world hosts anywhere near the freedom they would have with a private server. Not to mention the monetization of RSPSs incentivizes creativity to attract and retain players. This sounds a lot like "we want you to create new content for us for free"
I do not want or care about this. But. If Jagex is serious about this being a thing, you’re completely correct. It’s a half measure. That’s part of the reason I’m not super interested. If they promised, and provided tools so someone with no experience making games,like myself, could make fun stuff in my favorite game my interest would increase considerably.
Yeh i would go from "never gonna touch this aside from maybe the odd occassion where i join in with a unique fun idea for a short term server from a creator" to "i would probably rent my own server to work on skilling activity ideas etc."
That's not gonna happen. Simply because programming isn't something that simple. They can't make this mario maker and still allow you to create truly "new" things. Unless you are willing to learn properly you won't be doing more than tweaking numbers I'm afraid
My thoughts are that they will never give us access to code just like how they cracked down on runelite originally cracking open the client. (the issues would be botters, code vulnerabilities, being able to check content on launch to figure out mechanics/drop rates). If they don't push updates the servers will primarily be used as either sims/pk servers. If they do push mod tools 100% they will claim ownership over player generated content to be able to use it (much like how blizzard implemented a new eula in warcraft 3 - they were salty over not owning dota). A couple of other issues I could see as well the servers would be 2,000 players max, the banning/muting options some how accidentally being universal instead of just the private servers, if game updates are implemented will it wipe any of the player generated content since it pushes a version of the game on top. This will be a full time project like publishing a new game cause of the all systems that will need to built from the ground up or this will die faster than darkscape.
excited to see the lads create dota in osrs
Really well thought out video. There's still so much we can speculate about but you've hit some talking points that most people haven't thought of. The risk vs reward of 'unleashing the flood gates' is significant. I barely play this game anymore, haven't done so in years, but I'm really interested to see how this is implemented.
I'm so glad we can finally agree on something. But the real reason Project Zanaris won't work is because toxic elitists like yourself will charge us $69 a month for slower xp rates.
imo the best thing to do would be to bring leagues XP multiplier to main game, then have the current main game exported to zanaris servers so sweatlords can continue grinding while everyone else moves to the modern era
Unfortunately a miserable take
@@Lightswhencolorscool He's marching mixed hides. How low do you think he'll go for a quick buck?
@@CrazyAvidGamer I'd rather take times 100 drops than xp
you can already max in 8 months in the main game
you think they are hosting it for a bond price? lmao
What a good insight and perspective to project Zanaris. On the other, I would say project Zanaris if given the ability to bot, would allow Jagex to further scrutinize how bots are made and potentially get them banned in main game. However, this would mean getting more devs involved in project zanaris to study and figure out how bots are behaving in a controlled setting to then trying to single them out in main game.
Love the video and what you’re putting forward here and agree with you on the monetisation -
A few notes to clear some things up that you may have missed on previous news posts:
1. Moderation: The server owners will be able to ban/mute people for various reasons
2. Pay to win - They’ve addressed that their definition of Pay to win is as such:
Cannot pay real $ to get items/gold/advantages in the servers. They haven’t really mentioned monetisation in terms of paying to play on the server to help owners pay for costs. This would also prevent server owners from charging for an “unban” on their server to stop any corruption involving Osrs players money.
3. No Cheating/Going against TOS: just means they’ll probably have their bot detection run on these servers to prevent botting (LOL @ their ability to prevent bots in main game) and things such as racism/exploits etc.
I’d assume they would just have a flat no botting rule as the accounts people play on will be through their jagex account and potentially would be punished on their entire RSN if detected cheating by the systems rather than a manual ban placed by server owners.
4. They said they are wanting players to be able to create their own content, as for how far down the line that would be they haven’t said.
100% agree. Project Zanaris is the perfect opportunity for Old School to truly live up to its "community-driven game" ideal and bring in tons of new players, but only if they give us full mod access (in a "safe" way, of course, that doesn't open the floodgates to main game exploits)
10/10, watched it all the way through 16 times already. Can you break my fingers anyway?
Line em up big boy
One thing I'd love to see, and it can't happen if servers can't opt out of having the rules enforced by Jagex, is like a weekly reset server, maybe with some kind of PvP or something to determine a winner. No rules enforced or anything. Basically a bot optimization game. Whoever can write the best bot for maximizing gains in a week wins. That would be really fun just to observe.
So TAS speedruns basically. Thumbs up from me. Would be really cool to watch.
Great video. Had no idea what Project Zanaris was and you laid out the facts, gave an informed opinion, and spoke your mind freely on the topic. To answer your question, I think more unscripted videos with a specific topic or two from you similar to this one would be cool in the future. Subbed
Yea, the thing I think that is scaring Jagex from making this something that could actually take off is, as you say, handing the keys to the car. I can see why they are afraid to do that, considering the car might end up driving off a cliff if the kids they hand them to aren't the brightest and most well intentioned.
I dont hate the idea of project Zanaris but idk it feels... wierd. What i really dont understand is why should jagex host zanaris servers? That feels so wierd. We can have alternative profiles in the main game. Why do we need Zanaris for that?
this
They will make $$$
I think you're absolutely right. With no modding tools it's dead on arrival, but with modding tools it's a billion dollar idea.
Sax got baited by the Thumbnail! Great job Hedron!
This makes me think of games like project zomboid, dayz, arma reforger, and many others, where the devs give modders the keys to the castle and encourage them to make things for the game.
That is the life blood of any game I have played with community servers, and I hope Jagex understands that this is going to be a scary but necessary step in order to have these not be a long term flop
you hit the nail on the head, every single point you spoke of and every suggestion. Almost to the exact word is what was thinking.
100% Mr. Monkey, the ideas are limitless and could absolutely be good for the game. If something becomes so popular, bam free idea for the game. Give the people the freedom and gold will definitely come
They might be trying to add private servers in a similar method to how overwatch added custom games, initially they added only parameters, like damage, speed, jump height multipliers, and allowed you to customize these parameters per team and per character. They kept extending it until eventually they added a visual scripting language that allowed adding new rules to the game. Ive seem people make some pretty interesting gamed with the limited tools provided in Overwatch so im not too deterred by Jagex's overuse of the term "parameters", if it allows them to release something sooner to properly guage public interest and progressively add more to it. I think a Lua scripting api is the ideal but i dont think we need that on launch, hopefully they can reuse some of the tech used for official client plugin system.
Thing with OW is that they have the Dev power + resources to do things "later", Jagex just doesn't so I don't think that way of doing it will work for them.
@@GnomonkeyRS A key thing to keep in mind is part of what Zanaris is for the studio is essentially paying a tools development (and code refactoring) team. Just adding "parameters" is requiring them to clean up the code in significant ways. So it's the kind of things that will speed up development on the main game.
Likewise, I don't think we'll be seeing discussion about custom content development until the C++ client has the Lua API. My suspicion is Lua is going to become a staple of the OSRS team to move away from RuneScript.
jagex just straight up lies when they say "later". They deliver on "later" less than 50% of the time
def more vids, your take on things is brilliant
This format is great and I agree with your thoughts. I foresee Jagex releasing Project Zanaris without the necessary modding tools, but them adding it after community feedback post launch.
I'm a big fan of these servers being a way to make a boss and see how it works. Some people have cool ideas in concept but then you think hard about it and they're terrible. So, instead, someone could use this to make a boss, show off how it'd *actually* work and function and then it'd be a better way to show off a new boss idea, minigame, activity, etc. So, I'm behind Project Zanaris if they do what you say and make it extremely moddable.
I think their big fear, though, is people having access to their code. So, they'd have to do something like Bethesda does with their GECK and provide a toolkit that can mod without directly showing the code (maybe a bad example cause it's Bethesda but you get the idea). I think parameters will be cool for like 30 days and then people will forget about it. So, best to just full send and make it moddable so people can *really* do stuff.
Unscripted is always better. Raw ideas are the ones that people resonate with the best. Feels like a business meeting of pure unique thought process, over assuming someone is taking a biased approach.
Love it, and I thoroughly appreciate you for making one like this Brother👍🏽
LWOTC for XCOM 2 comes to mind. Completely changes the game and enemies and drops and stats and so much more. Makes it an entirely different game and adds massive replay ability
I agree with your vision for Zanaris. Before hearing this, I was so put off by the concept.
Yes, I liked this format of this video. Just listened to the video, put my headphones on and went on with my day. It was well thought out even if it wasnt scripted
I'm a fan of these types of videos. more plz
do we know if we can get a vanilla 2007 pre ge server? thats all i want!!!!
What is the song that is behind you talking in the first portion of the video?
I believe it's a Zelda Korok song.
@@GnomonkeyRS Found it, is a song from Cult of the Lamb :)
I enjoyed this unscripted format and would love to listen to more Gnomonkey rambles like this one :) Happy Holidays gamers!
All i want out of Zanaris:
- Creator tools to make new items / pvm encounters / activities and skilling methods - this is the way i see myself actually returning to Zanaris and using it frequently
- Fun minigame stuff like Prop hunt, Gielinor Games minigames etc.
- Creator driven events like Battle Royale, Area restriction mode, tileman mode etc. Short term servers where we essentially have "community made" events and leagues / DMM. I think this sort of removes some of the magic of official leagues/DMM's, but i see this being the biggest long-term benefit of this system (Creators hosting events with their fans being actually involved, not just creators).
I don't have any interest in playing permanent private servers for "unofficial official" support of modes like tileman, area restriction, perma-leagues etc. I won't touch any server like that. I'd rather just play the main game.
my idea was that a nice workaround would be to:
Enforce a Jagex Provided
Allow Servers to enforce plugins, including server exclusive plugins
Allow these plugins to modify in game stuff, essentially modding in content. These plugins could very well communicate outside of the server to help to
It's a huge undertaking probably to allow players to inject their own stuff directly right away. I understand that. These types of much easier workarounds exist that they could implement much faster.
"Creative style tools" alongside such mandatory plugins would also help with modded stuff as well.
I've personally pushed this as an idea to help get us to actually unique fun content as soon as possible - my primary want is a randomizer with a goal being to beat something like Jad or Zuk, or a Grandmaster Quest. Think Leagues style progression but entirely random in terms of what rewards what as well as chunk locking.
I really like the idea of being able to take the game world and create a custom RPG session for friends or decouple the questing experience from the rest of the game for people who are really into that. maybe it's just a pipe dream to play runescape with friends who aren't that into runescape but pipedreams will be pipedreams.
another angle i find really compelling is that this opens the possibility that the zanaris core can be community maintained separate from the core game in the distant future if jagex decides to no longer host the game themselves and osrs can avoid the live service graveyard
For the Pay to win disclaimer, it also said "anything that goes against the rules of runescape" this would mean any form of monetization as that would result in RWT and thus a violation of TOS
Amazing how they have been making a great effort over the years to achieve the awesome game osrs is now, and now for asome reason they just decided to break it.
History really does repeat itself.
Most likely parameter = configuration value like "xp multiplier" or "quests enabled true or false". But these really don't sound like modding tools. I am almost 99% certain that what you can do will be super limited.
Also "no pay to win" just means that you can't pay to win in the server. But it doesn't mean creating a custom server is free.
i want to see player made raids and skills giving devs the power to completely change the game would be amazing, even to the extent where server devs can have open source repo's for the custom content on their server like other games. (nexus/github/modrinth/steam workshop)
I could so, so easily see the mom(Andrew Gower)'s spaghetti code being so full of undiscovered, yet also un/extremely difficultly patchable bugs that releasing it would be a non-option
An example of where these servers will come into play, and specifically the appeal to myself and my friends is that they don't have a lot of time to commit to some of rs longer grinds, they want to create a private server to enjoy the game but with increased xp rates so we can enjoy late game content sooner etc
9:40 Spot on analysis of the crux of the issue "Jagex cannot be the ones adding these "Parameters" long-term. They are not going to devote the dev time necessary to give us what we want." 100% agree that the only way RSPS work is with public access to the game engine or a tool to indirectly edit/access it.
I loved private servers after EOC released and if it wasn’t for mobile osrs I’d probably have never came back and still be playing them. I’m rather excited to see what the community can produce after the fun I had before returning to osrs.
I genuinely hope the pricing for these servers is insanely high. Like so high that nearly no standard players should be able to do this. Otherwise it will be horrible. It needs to be a big money maker for jagex if they do this.
Handing the tools and creating a way to easily share things that are created would be nuts
Do more. Every update. Could listen to your opinions all day.
From a programmers perspective, what your asking for is highly unlikely to happen without some massive investment from Jagex side OR Jagex making (almost) the entire server side source code available.
One rather simple thing they could do, would be to setup some type of requirements to play, for example runelight + some specific set of mods. Then you don't need all that stuff serverside, but can keep it client side.
As a lifelong runescape private server player, I agree with just about everything you said.
I think a good compromise to not giving us access to the code is a map editor with parameters you can set with optional boundaries to them.
When you commented on what an economy entirely of bots would looks like…
Have you logged into a main in a while? Look at the price graph of blood shards lol
i 100% agree. we need the ability to edit maps and basically everything else, kinda like minecraft/roblox/fortnite. theres no point releasing it just with the ability to change a few "parameters".
One of the main reasons they're probably hesitant to give full engine access is because of some sort of copyright or it could be trying to avoid people making way more sophisticated bots in main game after knowing ins and outs of engine. I agree should give dev tools but should be in some sort of controlled way to avoid these issues. I think Gary's mod is a good example tho
this has potentially the biggest upside possible for the game if we end up getting modding tools & jagex skims the cream off the top for ingame content.
theres like a 90% chance were just getting perma league servers, but I have hope this could be very good for the game in the decades to come.
Need a map editor too having new areas with assets they give us would be cool
The bot one is a great idea, Jagex could study this “incubator” and learn more about real game bots while letting players go crazy in the private server.
I'm long retired from RS. Just found out about this. Will definitely bring me back if done properly.
I also love the idea of “long running beta worlds”, I would love to trial polls before they go live to see their real world impact before going live, etc.
You’re absolutely right. Imagine if Garry’s Mod was just Counter-Strike Source with a few customizable parameters like movement speed or player hp. Without modding tools they’re doomed!
I think if they're small enough changes on launch that community servers only live for temporary TH-camr driven "Leagues" or even restricted all stars type deals that is more hands off for Jagex, that's fine. Of course ideally we get quest building, boss adding, etc but just tweaking parameters might be enough for the start
I grew up playing RuneScape and private servers. I've played both for over 15 years, my favorite servers were the ones who did something different. I also liked the mystery boxes that had items that weren't achievable in game. But you could buy those boxes and sell them in game, so you really didnt have to spend the money if you didn't want. This has the potential to do Minecraft or Roblox level of success, but they've got to open it up and let these people run wild. I'd love to see the owners of Runewild, Spawnpk, whatever other private server come and make something awesome just like they did previously.
Love the video. Agree with everything you said. I hope jagex does this right but I won't be surprised if they fumble this great opportunity.
reason y i love this guy: his explanations
100% agree that they need whats available to be 10x or 100x what theyre promising regarding "server parameters". The only thing I'd say you were a little out in left field about was the monetization. From what it sounds like in the stages call I was on, its not that they don't know how Jagex is going to monetize these, they just cant give specifics because they don't have firm estimates to cost and development yet. I definitely agree that theres not a lot of prioritization on allowing server hosts to monetize which I agree is vital to long term longevity for these servers.
My biggest fear is that theyll release with like 5 parameters which would let you make some servers from popular series and a leagues style game mode and the project flops and its shut down or goes on life suport like quest speedrun worlds. My only hope is that they dont shutter it before it gives access to scripting events. I have hope though that even with very limiting guardrails in place like parameters, that people are creative and alongside client side modding like runelite and the upcoming source client plugin hub, that there are some novel ideas that come out of these servers.
But dear lord if they release with like, "ironman mode but you cant pick up ground items either", or "only Morytania" modes I'll scream. We need access to make things that aren't doable by self imposing on the main game.
I want to share this with everyone. How do I copy paste to the internet?
Even though I am extremely curious to see community content coming alive I am a little hesitant in opening up multiple ways to play the game, one of the main characteristics that sets OSRS apart is the progression system, spending months if not years to build your ironman or main account is exactly what makes the game valuable and rewarding to continue. If we shorten that attention span by providing loads of content separated from the main game I think this will hurt the community in the long run.
Not to mention commercialization will become messy, extremely quickly.
I want a way of summoning bosses and modifying player damage so it’s possible to practice any monster in a controlled way
Great video. I agree with tons of the points u made abt Project Zanaris, mainly about how other games like MineCraft and Roblox allow their players to be creative with building their own world and community.
When it comes to players following the 'rules' of the game, I think as long as we aren't doing gambling or other illegal things online, we should b good.
(edit: Gnomonkey unscripted vid was good 2 watch)
one of the biggest issues i see with project zanaris is monetizarion
if playing prop hunt with my clan once a month costs me 9€ a month then there's no fucking chance im paying for that...
plus, are we gonna pay for access to the full service? or pay per server we want to play on? maybe pay per host and the host gets a portion of the revenue so that hosts have a reason to keep servers fair, fun and keep them clean?
maybe only hosts pay, so if my group of friends wants to do prop hunt then we all put in a little money and buy the server for a month
and ofc, TH-camr ran events where some content creators wants to do a "castle wars but you cant tell whos on each team, team kills are allowed , and everyone has a 1 shot dagger", will eveeyone need to pay? just the youtuber? maybe both parties?
thanks for the views gnome man. good points.
Honestly, this will be the only thing keeping me playing Osrs. I'm an adult, I don't have time to grind 20-50 hours just to get one skill high enough to do a quest. It's insane how bad the grind is. I plan on finding a server with x5-x8 xp rates/drop rates and just keep the rest the same.
I think these servers will bring in a ton of players like me that ONLY play during leagues
The whole talk of only giving players certain parameters is the safest thing they can do and keep the scope of the project small. Like you said, if they give players engine code and open the flood gates, osrs isn't really ready for that sort of thing because there's so much spaghetti and jank going on in osrs.
In my opinion, osrs is actually such a simple game. If you want a game with community modding and making the game more abstract, they should recode the game from scratch so that they have a clean base and clean engine to give the players. But that's scope for a more larger project.
they wont ever give someone source code to modify the engine, they'll say because of security or botting
I mean... If we had a few dedicated leagues type servers that are permanent and updatable that would be absolutely insane.
The only problem with bot servers is unless the server removes all the old anti-botting checks. People will use it as a test bed before moving to the main game.
But if they allow the old bots to work. People would very less likely to make new bots when the old defunct ones that no longer work on main works just fine is private.
I think it’s one of the best ideas ever, seems really cool. I most likely will never use it, but it would bring fun and cool things and even new streamers to the game which would be good thing for the game…. But in terms of logistics I have no idea lol.
All I want out of project zanaris is to be able to skip straight to zuk or straight to sol for in game practice.
Would that be a thing or nah?
Nope, not currently it sounds like
@GnomonkeyRS welp, rip then.
This exists already. Google sol Herodotus simulator. They have a Zuk option as well.
That is literally the only use for Project Zanaris. To practice raids and bosses without using up billion of golds in the main game. If not why the fuck would anybody play Project Zanaris? I don't have the time to play leagues and barely enough to play my main character.
This should be part of the base game in general. Did you make it to the boss? Cool, now do the boss until you actually get it right, THEN go do the real thing. being able to practice the parts where you choke in these long grindy wave based games like inferno/colosseum should have been a thing ages ago.
If they don't allow monetising a project zanaris instance by the owner/developer of the instance. Why would a dev team move away from a full private server where they can monetise it and script/mod whatever they want, towards an environment where they'll likely be able to do less and not receive any compensation.
Because it’s supposed to be for fun not for profit.
I feel that once zanaris is live those private servers will all see legal letters on there doors. They will be brutal.
I think you're right. The success of MineCraft modded worlds and such is proof. Like, yeah Mojang has their own modified versions through Windows/bedrock editions, but all the real/adult gamers are playing some crazy custom packs like Prodigium Reforged MC.
i'm pretty neutral on all of this stuff, don't really care one way or the other. But essentially open sourcing OSRS would be fucking amazing. Though i really don't see this coming to fruition the way most people that support this see it, they're still a pretty big company and have share holders that may get scared over a lot of this stuff. You're 100% right on your points here.
I want my own server so I can play at a reasonable xp rate and run content without being crashed. That’s all I want from this. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.
Modding tools needed. Although I would love to be able to access different servers where people are able to create an 'Original' RuneScape to bring back those players.
For example: OSRS '07 before all the updates (to make an account based around that timeline)
Another would be to make Servers based on learning the games mechanics. Learning Tile Markers, Tick Timings and so on...
I know they can do it, but the question is WILL they do it.
But as we know Jagex, it'll take them months, EVEN YEARS; before they allow US as the community to have access to things they don't want to give out.
People seem to forget that private servers are already a thing and that some of the custom content on these private servers is insane. I'm thinking Jagex wants to take some of that market share back because it is hard to ignore the amount of people that engage (spend money) with private servers but not OSRS.
1 global bank account, everyone shares it. You can only drop, sell or alch items if you were the original person that received it as a drop.
You can process an item and then drop sell or alch the output.
Im seeing a custom server where you are region locked at boss monsters with max gear or quest servers with teleporters to quest locations. I just dont understand how they plan on stopping bot abuse since they are having such a hard time with the servers they have.
Oh why did I think they were graphically updating Zanaris
bf4 still has lots of servers running 11 years later with no monetization except for donations
i agree with all this,
i believe the devs want to jsut give us incredibly limited stuff, very much recycled code from leagues, where we just get a fancy UI where you can make scythe 2 tick and thats it
i think the best approach would be for jagex to not give us the full code, jut instead give us edited and modular parts of the code that then tweaks the game, this is a ton of work for them tho
100% right on everything, modding support would be huge for this game. All zanaris is going to do as of now is make jagex not release leagues playercount data next year once nobody has any reason to play it. When a custom, adjustable and private variant is around all year long it will probably make a decent dent in leagues playerbase next season. But maybe that is all jagex wants, why get these people who come around for 8 weeks a year max when you can give them leagues all year round AND charge them for it? I dont feel so good boss :( But I'm optimistic they will listen to the community and will delay this release until it gets sorted and in a a place of its own.
Great take overall, just one note to anarch yservers idea:
Jagex is constantly actively fighting bots, and it's a very uneven fight, near impossible to win.
Giving bots a way to run rampant on a server with no restrictions is effectively buffing them in the real game. They get a safe environment to test new metas, tools, and then they can just port it back into the main game.
Bad idea for preserving osrs' integrity.
I agree 100% with Gnom, unless jagek lets us make custom content, custom game modes, custom bosses, custom, custom, custom, this project will just be a HUGE waste of time and will fail. Here is the answer to jagek - do or die! (*drops mic, walks off*)
I am still confused what are Jagex trying to achieve here. Are they trying to achieve something like a Dota2 with some pay to access custom game modes? Or is this like the recent Maplestory Worlds where developers can take assets, use the underlying lua framework and develop their own game modes?