"The ocean does not care if you are rich. But it does favor those who respect engineering and science, ahead of hubris and gut feel innovation" Beautiful said!
Ya but apparently the news and rescue teams do since they’ve spent countless hours looking and recovering while refuges on boats all over the world are drowning every day.
4:55 I did vacuum design and engineering for a couple of decades. I designed several chambers for the aerospace industry (for testing spacecraft components) that were roughly the size of the Titan's crew compartment. The hemispherical end caps were 1/8" thick stainless steel ("helmet heads" for those in the biz) while the cylindrical center section was 1/4" thick SST, seam welded inside and out. And this is to hold out only 1 atmosphere, not the 400+ at Titanic's depth! Any design engineer will tell you that a carbon fiber composite can never be used this way. It's not that they didn't overlap or bias-wind the structure, it's the material itself. The fibers in the composite are immensely strong in tension, but have zero strength in compression. That's why you can use it to make pressure tanks and vessels as the "hoop stresses" from the inside pressure cause the cylinder to try and expand, which is very efficiently resisted by the strength of the fibers. But when the forces are reversed, and the pressure is on the outside, the cylinder is compressed smaller, meaning that the fibers go slack, and provide nothing to the strength of the structure. The only thing holding the pressure is the matrix between the fibers (epoxy in this case). Epoxy is very strong in compression, but also very brittle. It will crack when flexed, meaning an absolutely guaranteed failure in a few cycles. I'm actually amazed they got that many dives out of it. There's a good reason that "the experts" were all warning him, and insisting on more and different testing, and it's not just that they were jealous of his innovative "free thinking" mindset.e
Please do more of what you did here for it was perfect. You explained much of what I had heard before but more clearly and likely with a better understanding. It's not comparable to pressure tubes because the pressure in this case is outside and you can't push a string. I'm currently on a steel schooner but mostly familiar with fiberglass and Carbon Fiber and indeed epoxy is brittle which is why we add the fibers. Well done.
Well, would be good to clarify some aspects related to composites: This kind of composite, carbon fiber & epoxy, presentes mechanical properties according to direction of the reinforcement: Considering fiber direction we can identify excelent mechanical resistence for tensile stress and less for compressive stress... Considering direction perpendicular to fiber...we have good mechanical resistance for compression and less for tensile stress.... ...The mechanical resistance of the composite depends on the amount of plys, sequence of staking , direction of the reinforcement and the ratio, in volume: fiber / matrix And temperature and moisture (absorption of water ) as well... THUS, when working with composites, is very important to take these into account. ...Also, using shapes and wall thickness in such way that the stress will be reduced to a level that composite can" deal with". Anyway, fatigue is a very complex point to be considered , we can never close the eyes for fatigue ...the small damages caused each time, loaded x unloaded , are cumulative and after some point , the colapse will occur
@@Goddess-illias what a powerful analogy. Its actually a bit more like pulling a box with string - you can do that, but you can't push the box. If you put the string in a short, stiff hose, you can pull fine, push a little bit, but too much and the hose bends and eventually breaks with fatigue. Sort of. I'm reminded of the Segway inventor who took a metaphor a little too far and ended up going off the edge of a cliff.
So, at the end it was pretty much just a gigantic soda can wrapped up with extra material, hoses and cables. No one can even call it a floating casket cause everyone inside just disintegrated. The implosion animation here gave me the chills. Great job! Amazing video.
@@abdulSprucethey were 1hr45 into the 2hr journey down iirc, which would be approximately 2860m/9370ft depth. My personal guess is mostly juice but perhaps some part of the torso could remain. Would be a shame if it’s just reminants of some slime on the recovered debris
Thanks Mike. Now that's what i call an informative, understandable and educational presentation of what happened. No unnecessary dramatization or boring fillers. Just pure on-point information.
It's not that they were too slow, it's slowed down for the human eyes, but this is the closest animation correspondent to the debris found. The other ones had every bit shredded to pieces or the carbon fiber caving in and remaining intact.
@@anitanoterajesno they are taking about stuff like that popular tiktok video showing the ocean gate completely crushed no pieces left turns out the owner of that account was a jack 🫏 and posted weird stuff
People just wanted clicks and made up videos based on fuzzy logic. The end caps were titanium. One person was inside the front end cap. There would have been remains such as legs arms. The end caps were not crushed just most likely the tube failed. Those in the tube section would likely have been pancaked.
@@Imnotplayinganymore Water would immediately dissipate the intense heat (14,000 degrees F) generated by the implosion of the air's immediate compression to about 0.00253 its original volume, although there would be surface scorching. The compression of the collapsing steel can inside the compromised titanium shell would provide the physical force to immediately crush its contents much like a trash compactor, but there would likely be identifiable remains.
This is by far the best illustration and demonstration of exactly what happened. Really nice job! My condolences to the families of the passengers in the submersible.
We don’t know exactly what happened yet. The window had also come out of the end cone, as we can see from videos of what the recovery team brought back, so that may have been the component that failed.
@@scootergeorge7089 the window is one candidate, because it was certified to only a much shallower depth. Still, I agree that it is too early to know. No doubt there are many broken pieces and they won’t have been able to recover all of them, so it will be a challenge to work out which piece broke first.
I am an engineering student that literally has just taken a class on carbon composites and one of the main things I learned about pressure vessels is that layup should be around 55 degrees from horizontal to maximize strength. If they didn't even put that kind of consideration into the orthotropic nature of carbon fibers I don't think they put much thought into the design of this vessel. It is such a shame.
They should've made a sphere out of metal instead of a giant brittle soda can. Would be less compact for the same amount of passengers, but much safer.
Hubris; pride comes before the fall, a lesson for us all. Rush was a criminal and a massive POS. Many warned him, including a man on Rush’s own team; his response? He fired then sued him: th-cam.com/video/pE_NY8tf5tU/w-d-xo.html
i mean look at it.. it looks like a make-shift space ship made to sit in a kids playpark.. i know functionality trumps presentation, but it didn't even had that.
@@Pozi_Drive What was the lunatic craving? I think he was more an arrogant, flawed individual. Either way, he's dead now, and his limited engineering education died with him.
@@Mike-Bell 110% agree. This was incredibly helpful with the schematic. Clear, straightforward, no BS, not tilted to any one side, and refreshingly short. Thank you!
Excellent video! Thanks for the most detailed and no-nonsense explanation I've seen on this event. Like you, I sort of knew when the last signal received from Titan was an hour and forty-five minutes into the dive, something catastrophic had happened right then. There was absolutely no need for the days of news reports telling how much air they supposedly had left. Again, thanks for a great video.
that implosion. It's really hard to grasp how violent and quick it must have been. under 6000psi, the volume of air in the pressure tube would have compressed to something like 1/500th its original size, at supersonic speeds, igniting the air, and pulverizing anything within it.
It's kind of like a bullet shrimp/mantis shrimp punch (extreme pressure, supercavitation, pressure heating, atmospheric oscillation) but on a much larger, terrible scale. Ignoring whether they had any forewarning, as a "way to go" total, instant obliteration like that is relatively humane as you aren't aware it happens, the off switch is just pressed with instant effect. We can only hope they were relatively unstressed before it happened as that would be the truly harrowing part.
Just watched another video talking about a sub that imploded a few years ago. They were at a depth of about 1200-1300 feet, so approx 1/10 the Titan sub, and when it collapsed the hull (at 550-600psi) would of collapsed at 1500 MPH which is somewhere close to Mach 2. The Titan was much closer to 6000 psi.
I was involved in some early research of using carbon fiber to make scuba diving tanks. This turned out to be an excellent fit for carbon fiber and it does help to alter the direction of the fiber application. However carbon fiber only works with internal pressure which puts the fibers under load which prevents the epoxy, which it is layered with, from bursting. With oceangate the exact opposite happened. Basically you can think of every bit of their structure being nothing more than an epoxy shell as the carbon fiber does very little when external forces are pushing inwards.
If anything, the fibre would weaken the epoxy. Now you only have thin layers of it, interspersed with the fibres which would simply slump without an internal force with substance to keep them in place. Think of it like a sausage shaped balloon inflated to the point where it holds its shape, wrapped in bands of fibre. If you tried to inflate it further, the bands would keep it from expanding. Now put the balloon in a vacuum chamber, suck the air out of the chamber (under-pressure), and the balloon with fibre wrap would collapse.
Carbon fiber is also used to hold tanks for CNG (compressed natural gas), which is about 3-4000 psi, from my recollection. Again, the pressure is from the inside out, not the reverse. I had been wondering how they put the carbon fiber under tension in a compressive situation, and I am shocked to learn that they didn't even try. I can't imagine how it made 23 prior dives without imploding.
Indeed carbon fibre works well for aircraft that need to pressurise because the carbon fibres work well under tension, they're not quite as effective under compression, still better than regular polymer but still not ideal.
In an interview one of Rush's friends said that in a previous dive they heard a cracking noise during the decent. I believe the friend told him after that they shouldn't dive in the Titan again.
Aren’t sounds of steel compressing under immense pressure normal to hear while in submarines? Pipes makes tons of sounds as they expand and contract under hot and cold temperatures, as anyone who’s experienced old heating systems knows. This is a question I’ve not seen answered yet.
@@T1000-s4j you misunderstood my question. Read slowly. I know the hull of the Titan was made out of carbon fiber. I’ve read a everyday about this. Normal submarines are made of steel and they do indeed compress and make sounds. Therefore we can assume that a certain amount sound of the submersible’s carbon fiber hull compressing would be normal. Anything compressing makes a sound normally. I just read that military sub personnel do a little fun test, they put tape or a line from one side to another, and as the submarine dives deeper (nowhere near crush depth) it line or tape begins to drape. Visual confirmation of the steel compressing. James Cameron said his vessel compressed at least 3 inches. Steel, Titanium, Carbon fiber, it all is going to make a sound when being subject to compression. Sound alone is not an indication of failure.
When you design with carbon fiber, most times you end up chasing away its shortcomings until its benefits have been nulled. Weight is often the biggest advantage of CF but as soon as you need metal doubler plates, and joint reinforcement, and end fittings, you’ve introduced so much complexity that machining and iso grid structure makes more sense. CF is a material you use with great intention and foresight/testing.
While CF (the fiber itself) is very strong in tension, it becomes practically useless because it is flexible by nature. Under these kinds of loads it might as well have been just cast resin.
@@Mike-Bell I also like the animation but I feel that there's room for more information about the pattern of scattering of the debris field of the submersible as it can indicate details on the implosion depth and other data an animation about it would have fancied but good job .. altogether
I remember reading a book when I was a little boy about ships. In the chapter on submarines, the book showed a page on the submarines that dived down into the deepest depths. Two of them were the Alvin and the other was the Trieste. Both of these vessels were built to handle the pressures of the ocean. The Titan disaster was trying to use the less is more philosophy in construction of this submarine. The lesson learned is that for any environment that is to be explored, always listen to others who have gone before you.
This incident made me research deep sea diving. It was surprising to learn that the Trieste dove to the deepest place on Earth over 60 years ago, and since then there's been no major accidents or fatalities in this field. This tragedy was completely avoidable if they followed industry standards.
Instead of learning from past subs like you said, Stockton tried to reinvent the wheel and make it square. "My square wheel is better, I'm an innovative genius" KAABBOOM
I think the Trieste was rated to go half again deeper than the Marianas Trench. 127mm thick Titanium sphere. 50% reserve of safety at the deepest point in the ocean.
@@patrickhorvath2684 and the Trieste still had an accident "One of the Plexiglas windows in the outer layer of Trieste's "eye" had cracked. The two men inspected the crack, and with approximately another two kilometers to go to the bottom, decided to press on."
This is the best analysis that I have seen. The animation is particularly illustrative. Before now, I did not know that they dropped their weights, which clearly indicates that they knew that they were in trouble.
Edsedlak6827, My thoughts exactly. Don't know if this information was brought up elsewhere, and if so, this is the first I've heard about it...and which actually makes the whole thing even more tragic...and creepy.
There was a guy from I believe Discovery channel that was sent to do a story when Oceangate was in the Bahamas and he said they heard loud cracking sounds coming from the hull and Rush would try to explain it away..😬
The carbon wrap process was shocking, I initially thought it was a demo. I've worked in F1 and Aviation on the 787's wing. So, I have a background in this field. There are many air gaps in the wrap that can be compressed, with stored energy with an uncontrolled release.
I could not believe what I was seeing. The entire hull was CF wrapped circumferentially, so there were no fibres in the longitudinal direction. It was not done in a clean environment and there was no process to remove air bubble inclusions. Clearly OceanGate had not the faintest idea what they were doing.
@@paulweston285 Fatigue damage is progressive, and grows after each pressure cycle. The Titan's hull would have been weaker after each dive. As someone else said, it was an accident waiting to happen.
He also committed an astonishing 'face palm' error of logic/deduction when he said that 'over engineering' was unnecessary because most accidents weren't caused by structural failures, but by operator error! - um, no, it shows that the 'over engineering' has WORKED to remove structural failure as a cause, not that it isn't necessary.
I like that the implosion sound effects used in this video is an actual sound recording of an imploding submersible. Luckily in that case, it was an unmanned vehicle, the ROV Jason.
@@susanruck9197 Yes, he questioned why they went outward on the search. Some people were ragging Cameron like he was somehow a part of this. But no, he was just as puzzled and confused as the rest of us on that one. I'm not so sure him saying something would have changed the odd search decisions. It seems like common sense, and if they weren't listening to common sense, they weren't going to listen to him either!
As a carbon fiber specialist, I bet on the same scenario from the first day. The weak point is neither the carbon or the tinanium, but the carbon/titanium interface. If water seeps between the two, the resistance of the carbon winding is useless and the pressure will crush the inner titanium tube. But it started slowly, depending on the infiltration rate, it seems to have taken more than 15 minutes before deformations accelarated the infiltration rate and then the final collapse occurred.
I'm very grateful for your conclusion at the end. We have become so saturated with all kinds of progress and convenience that we just take it for granted. We should all be more humble and thankful for the possibilities we have nowadays.
5:59 There was a brief statement given that there was explosion heard. The reason for not immediately saying they imploded is that it is better to continue searching and find out later that the ship was long gone. Had they called off the search and an intact hull with bodies was later found, there would be serious repercussions to any leadership of the rescue as well as public backlash.
Also, the sound was plausibly an implosion, but not guaranteed to be. Also, and most importantly, the first ROV that could go as deep as 4000m was immediately called upon and was mobilized from buffalo to the wreck site within 4 days. 32 tons of delicate equipment, plus the crew, plus all the installation of the equipment. they immediately went down and searched for the probable site of implosion debris and found it within a few hours. It's unbelievably fast. like above-all-expectations fast. Every expert speculated on the implosion because it was the most likely scenario, but it was unproven before the debris were found. You couldn't even hope for the debris to be found as fast as they were.
I think it has as much to do with throwing a few red-herrings to the media to keep them from descending on the search site whilst the search was still in progress. Also, I am sure the US Navy would want to confirm what they believed they were hearing before making any bold statements. I am 99% certain most of us knew that the submersible was gone as soon as they heard that contact had been lost.
Thank you for taking the time to make this reconstruction. It demonstrates the crush pressure so well, especially with the addition of the soda can. Your models are really clean and well made.
Incredible illustration of what most likely occured to the Titan.. I cant thank you enough for your time in putting this together, giving us, a visual. My thoughts and prayers go out the the family, friends and colleagues of the submersible. ❤
My imagination of the implosion was that the carbon fiber tube gave-in to the pressure and instantly went from a round cross section to a flat cross section, like a cardboard toilet paper tube between two clapping hands. This would have jellified everything inside and blown out the two relatively intact titanium ends in opposite directions, possibly blowing out the porthole too.
There are a few reasons the sounds of the implosion weren't released sooner. 1 - The DOD - Military picked up the sound but didn't know what it was. It could of been a cargo container falling off a ship imploding, a depth charge or other military exercise, one of the tanks on the vessel, or many other things. They just knew they heard something and reported that up DOD/Mil channels. 2 - 2hr's later, an emergency call was issued on Civilian channels that contact was lost. Assistance needed. No one would have checked for a possible implosion because they think it is still intact and suffered a power failure. 3 - At some point in time, the sound was passed to rescue crews to help them better search. 4 - This is the important part. - Searches are not called off because someone thinks something happened. You need to verify. Upon verification, and due to the unique situation (implosion), rescue was impossible and it then switched to a recovery and families and press notified. Nothing occurred in the SAR portion that is out of the ordinary. No major conspiracy, it was put into the press because it was a modern day kid fell down well story that captivates people. The press came up with their theories because they run a 24/7 news cycle and they need something. As it takes time to get rescue ships to the area, and the press then starts filling time by calculating how much air they have left..... this helps them generate interest and views. Yes this causes anguish towards the family waiting to hear the fate of their loved ones however..... you cannot put it the press that you heard an implosion before you verify. It looks bad, but it's oh so much worse if you tell someone their loved ones are dead but they aren't because you haven't verified.
This very much. Society owes every lost person a proper search. Imagine if the National Park rangers decided to not look for a missing hiker because they saw that a pack of wolves they were tracking were in the same area and just assumed the hiker was eaten... Only for their dessicated body to be found uneaten at the bottom of a ravine a year later.
Right.. the noise coincided with the loss of communication with the sub. The sub was made from plastic. But a propagandists must keep its flock in line, right? 😂😂😂
I can't imagine anyone has ever seriously suggested to call off the search. I believe his point was repeating James Camerons who had this info and knew it was finished. When I learned the controversial construction and the point at which it lost communication I too assumed it was lost. It was indeed a compelling news story and that fact alone would have had editors holding off on presenting facts which made the search seem more like one of recovery. If Cameron knew, others knew, ie. any journalist that had reached out to Cameron or any of his colleagues, so yeah it is most likely a bit of a conspiracy.
thank you for demonstrating how the submersible could have collapsed. i started to get annoyed seeing the one tiktok animation over and over again and it was the only one i kept finding. i honestly wanted to see different possibilities how it couldve looked like and your video is one of those.
Your synopsis is spot on, and thank you for your time and integrity. During our human experience, we constantly allow ego to crash endeavor. This is our insanity.
Nicely done. As a fellow architect, my interest and deep respect for engineering and science mirrors yours. It took my career into the field of complex adaptive systems & simulation technologies. When I saw the video of them smearing glue (epoxy presumably) on the inside of the Titanium collar I was flabbergasted at the loose dimensional tolerances that enabled the ring to slip over the carbon fiber tube with ease. Surely, I thought, they aren’t relying on hand-smeared epoxy to seal the gap. Also I did a few bending moment calcs which I then rotated 360 degrees and wondered whether bending stresses and shear forces at the glued titanium rings from the enormous uniform loading had ever been simulated or tested with different carbon fiber weaves…..a sad loss for sure but, aside from the panic over the emergency, the implosion would have happened far faster than any awareness would have been possible.
Astonishing, that glueing bit...no squeeze out, and just what, 2 inches of contact area between ring and tube. I'm nowhere near an engineer, but mixing some epoxy in a scadgy bucket then scraping it on like that didn't look like the sort of precision engineering where you need it most on a submersible...yeah, I know, everyone's an expert in hindsight!
Thank you Mike… I’ve often heard “Academics learn in order to do, while entrepreneurs do in order to learn” and “fail fast” as better ways of innovating. It’s rare to get a shout out for scientists engineers and techs who focus on not only reliable design but manufacture, economy, testing, maintenance, lifetime reliability and safety. We also work to carefully experiment with new materials and techniques as we build a safety case. Being accused of analysis paralysis often by entrepreneurs…I hope they consider collaborating with those who know, to help them do new things and live.
Academics learn from experience and past mistakes. Developing anything will require many evolutions to make the item as safe as is practical to use. (Mark I, II, III etc) You start with the simplest idea and find the right ways to make it work. It could be argued that many tragedies have led to a more safety conscious approach to development. RMS Titanic is a good example of this. By the time of her launch, steam power was thought of as a modern wonder but little thought had been given to the use of rockets at sea being used distinctly for distress reasons. There were no regulations controlling the use of wireless meaning ships with powerful antennas could send messages all over the ocean with little thought to the fact that their 'commercial messages' might be interfering with messages relating to safety, and of course, 16 lifeboats and four collapsible’s should be more than enough to cater to the needs of 2,240 souls at sea. I dare say the first caveman only needed to put his hand in the fire one time to make up his mind not to do so again, after which point he warned others not do so.
@@KebabMusicLtd yes… and we already have a reliable, safe way of bringing on new materials and designs through an established certification process and System Engineering Design and Test & Evaluation This CEO chose to avoid it.
It has done previous dives and that was Rush’s biggest mistake. His arrogance got them all killed. After each dive, the submersible’s life expectancy was being shortened. The wear and tear, which was neglected, became its doom.
The government even advised them that the Titan shouldn't even reach a 3rd of the depth where the Titanic is, but due to the CEO's arrogance, they all unjustifiably died in a very gruesome but quick way
"None of this seamless operation would be possible without the unsung heroes: our army of brilliant scientists and engineers quietly and unseen. Making sure everything functions effortlessly. Our reliance on them is undeniable. The ocean does not care if you are rich. But it does favor those who respect engineering and science, ahead of hubris and gut feel innovation." Well said, sir. I will remember this quote for the rest of my life. We will do better, I believe in us.
Awesome video. Great ending commentary about the ocean not caring if you are rich. I grew up in NZ where many people have drowned in the sea, so our teachers constantly reminded us how dangerous it was. I'd never get in a sub like that one.
This story is unreal no matter how much I read or watch about it. There is a Mexican TH-camr who went down on the sub and saw the Titanic. Just watching that alone is unreal.
Really well done with concise explanations and animations! This is approachable for people who’ve never learned about these topics, but also not so basic as to be unhelpful to those who are familiar with these concepts. What you’ve made here is leagues better than a lot of what I’ve seen from news sources with whole departments & budgets & consultants for this (who should be far better at doing this than they’ve demonstrated thus far). I really hope you continue to make more videos on this topic, and it would be cool to see videos with a similar approach to other types of engineering or planning failures. You truly have a gift for communicating these types of events, without sensationalism and without sugarcoating or downplaying what has happened. Wonderful job! I’ll be subscribing and looking forward to more videos like this one! I know I’m just some random person in youtube comments but I hope you realize the gift you have here!!
This is an excellent analysis. I am no expert, but I am reminded of the difficulties experienced with the early Comet jetliners. That was also a situation where repeated cycles of compression and decompression caused fatigue over time in a way that engineers had not anticipated. The Comet was operating under stresses that passenger aircraft had not yet operated under.
The problem with that analogy is the designers of the Titan had generations of engineering history to look back upon (much of which they disregarded), unlike the Comet engineers. The analogy would be proper if the Comet were designed today with all its flaws!
I like this one. Little conjecture, but informative. I was also surprised at the carbon fiber wrapping being unilateral. It was wrapped over a steel - which also surprised me. There are lots of issues to deal with. Good job.
And yet, it survived 23 times, with vigorous inspections in between dives. I think the weak link was the glue that held the rings on each end of the carbon fiber tube. What ever happened started happening about half way down, and it looks like for about 6 minutes they struggled to come up, before implosion occured. I think a tube failure would have been all at once. But a glue seam failing might take several minutes to separate and implode.
Stockton Rush struck me as one of those subtly charismatic "old money" WASPs who become minor cult leaders, to both their employees and their -dupes- customers... but most ruinously, to themselves... "up his own arse" as the Brits say. Apparently for every paying customer that made the dive, 2 or 3 others came, saw... and wisely backed out, with raised eyebrows. At least one couple had to sue to get their deposit back.
I can agree with with you Practically about every characterization of RUSH you give except one . and it it the ONE really creates a problem for me about WHITE APOLOGISTS OAFS like you. OLD MONEY WASP. To begin with RUSH was a Christian ...not a protestant and second , his type of attitude is found in every GODDAMENED RACE on this planet . If you are ashamed of your own white skin change it , paint yourself any damned color you like , but do the white race a favor ,do not mention WHITE ...you give the race a bad name and we have nothing to apologize for . Perhaps 45 to 55 years spent reading history from end to end will teach you something about the human race and how each color is as bad or good as the other ..
splendid work ! It's great to see a less dramatised perspective on this, just what actually happened, as it happened. and that brief monologue at the end sums this up beautifully.
I worked with this composite material for years for use in dead tank circuit breakers on a global scale. These parts undergo unbelievable amounts of pressure and heat during use in the Interrupter. At one point, Inventory was mistakenly providing production with expired parts as they have a shelf life to abide by. This caused the breakers to fail tests. I understand Stockton purchased outdated material for the hull. If this is true, this submersible was a ticking time bomb based on that alone.
From other TH-cam sites, where materials engineers have comments, it's my understanding that the carbon fiber composite has great tensile strength, but low compression strength, that it is difficult to diagnose failure until it does fail, at which time it shatters.
Just like that, the titan crumbled to the mighty sea and forever lost the souls that were inside it, families of those lost will forever be changed, and as for the ocean, it continued to forever sparkle under the sun and be just as powerful as it has always been. The ocean is nothing to be careless with.
This is probably the best video I've seen yet that covers the implosion aspect of this tragedy. The reenactment using CGI and the Coke can experiment really wow'd me. Great content.
Yup, the main difference is that the aluminum can merely crumpled, while the carbon fiber shell apparently shattered into tiny pieces. Any recovered parts are are probably adhered to the metal frame, among with bits of flash-cooked human remains.
I really appreciate the last bit of the video where you talk about the experts, the scientific minds who we should all listen to. This disaster could've been prevented if it weren't for the hubris and arrogance of one individual against centuries of knowledge and experience.
I heard someone saying that problem with Titan's design was that carbon-fibre has limited lifespan on so many dives. If you want to make carbon fibre sub you need to completely replace it every few dives. I'm surprised that was 24th dive. That was extremely greedy. Another good insight was provided by you: "Fillaments were rolled in one direction only". Maybe if they rolled it in all directions this wouldn't happen or would happen after many more dives instead. But seriously..they didn't test how many dives can this carbon-fibre structure survive to cut costs. Now instead of dollars they payed with lives.
Thank you so much for doing exactly what the title said you would do: give us an in-depth analysis of the implosion. So many other videos claim to do that and tell us nothing in the video. This is by far the best video I’ve seen explaining what happened.
Carbon fiber is far stronger in extension than compression. That fact alone makes it a lousy choice for any sort of pressure hull. It weakens with each dive because stresses build up and then dissipates with each dive due to fractures within the material forming and joining with others until eventually it fails suddenly.However, this was not the only deadly flaw lurking in the Titan submersible. The view port was only rated for 4,000 feet, not 13,000 feet. If it failed the result would have still been an immediate implosion. The bond between the carbon fiber center section and one or both of the end rings could have also failed because they were inherently flawed to begin with. I suspect the Coast Guard will find conclusive evidence of what caused Titan to implode and how.
100% agree, with the fact that Carbon fiber are excellent against tensional stress rather compressive stress.... Good to make its use in space where internal pressure is more than outside but not for under water with high pressure outside.....
Tension can resist crushing though, in a circle. For the circle to go out of round requires one part to compress but ALSO requires another part to stretch.
Nicely done As someone who designs and builds with glass and resin, the strand orientation is baffling. The predominant direction of fiber should be along the longitudinal axis, the only thing working to resist the forces involved here is the resin. A chopped strand blown tube would have been more effective at resisting pressures. And why!? I still haven’t heard an answer why Stockton chose carbon over steel? Cost!? What was the differential ? You want long shelf life? Build a big oven and shove your steel sun into it and anneal every 50 dives. Brand new. Carbon prepreg. Only gets worse with age
I suspect a failure like that shown in th-cam.com/video/8tW4zfTeJqM/w-d-xo.html video posted ten months ago, showing a tiny model submarine in a deep sea chamber. If the composite delaminated, it could have been squashed flat like shown without breaking any of the circle-wrapped carbon fibers therein, rendering the strength of the fibers a moot point. Having some fibers running from the outer perimeter of the hull at the bow, to the inner perimeter at the waist, and then the outer perimieter at the stern would have improved strength a lot, but there should also have been fibers running radially and wrapped around something near the inner and outer surfaces. In order for the hull to collapse, it would have to get thicker, so fibers connecting the inside and outside would be positioned to discourage that from happening.
This was really good, I just can’t believe how something thrown together cheaply even made it to those depths a couple time before, you said trip 24? I heard they only went to the Titanic like 3 times, if the guy just retired it after a couple dives and built another probably would of worked, it’s just crazy that military subs or submarines in general can’t go that far, but that guy basically used a “water heater” and made it to the bottom of the ocean
Titan was by no means cheap. It was just cheaper. But when you are already spending big sums of money saving a few bucks is so dumb. If the main centre body had been titanium too I suspect some other non redundant system would have inevitably caused a disaster. Quite bizarre the way he dissed safety.
@@Mike-Bell ya that’s what I was thinking, the guy had money so why not make it perfect? Thanks for replying, I just keep seeing this stuff pop up but you’re video was the best one
it has many trips yes, but there have been hull replacement in those. this current hull had made about 7 trips before the implosion, about 3 or so were manned.
Thanks for cutting through the chatter, Mike. Even to a lay person, there seem to be so many weaknesses. I have to wonder at the junctions of the titanium bands and the steel-lined carbon fiber/plastic tube. Didn’t these dissimilar materials rely on epoxy to hold them together under extreme pressure? Yikes!
@@Mike-Bell The epoxy is essentially plastic, which would not react to pressure the same way titanium would. I realize that the composite could have delaminated at any point. I also saw on the BBC that the evidence retrieved included a big canvas sack of something…could have been shards of epoxy. Those tube ends epoxied into titanium just look to a lay person like a failure waiting to happen. I am shocked to learn that the carbon fiber was wound as a simple spiral. What a terrible choice. The late CEO actually reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes, who insisted that she could do what all experts in the field told her was impossible. The OceanGate CEO thought he knew more about materials and deep submergence than the experts in the field. They both started with the end result they wanted and then tried, in the name of innovation, to force a path to it that disregarded good science and engineering. Now they have both paid.
@@maudessen573 made this very same observation about Elizabeth Holmes today! "innovation" at the expense of innocent lives. if he had only put himself at risk (like test pilots), he may have actually earned the respect he so desperately sought.
@@Mike-BellI work with epoxy every day and I’ve bonded (or tried to bond) almost every construction material you can think of. When I saw the video of them smearing the epoxy right onto that smooth titanium, I immediately had a strong feeling where the failure occurred. The only way to truly bond epoxy to metal is with mechanical interface… or essentially small nodules or protrusions in the metal surface… or at very least very coarse sanding or scoring of the titanium surface.
If you have ever had a carbon bike or known someone who had them you would know what a POS they are. They work great on paper but they are inherently brittle and don't last. I was pretty shocked when I learned this is what they did. And all for buoyancy's sake, which is easy to deal with and does not even have to come from the body of the sub itself.
@@maudessen573 Spot On-- Rush was like Elizabeth Holmes-- Smart, but with an ego and ambition well beyond IQ-- Not smart enough to know that they were not smart enough. Also, both could be labeled as sociopathic because of their complete lack of concern for the safety of others. Unconscionable level of hubris.
A loud bang on hydrophones + loss of comms is a pretty bad sign, but doesn't prove conclusively that they imploded. From the PoV of the search team, if that scenario happened, then the crew were dead. In that case, they didn't need to confirm that fact quickly. But at that time, it was still possible that the sub had lost power but successfully executed an emergency ascent. In that case, they would have been floating on the surface, unable to open the hatch to get access to air (plus that would have caused them to sink anyway). That scenario was the only one possible where the crew might have survived in the end. So it made sense to focus on that until time ran out for the air supply.
yeah but they also definitely heard the bang. unfortunately they were probably in denial about what the sound was. but they used sonar technologies to communicate, there's no way they didn't hear a loud noise at the same time
They had the comms but also the transponder which failed at the same time of comms so they knew even without the sound that it imploded. Losing comms was pretty common with Titan.
@@nafmtigia The point still is to focus on hoping to save life instead spending time looking for dead bodies. Are you actually calling that "denial"? That's "triage".
Belated thanks, you've earned a subscriber! Very clear and respectful explanation, without gore and sensational headings. I followed the search for the Titan live on WFLA (I'm not even from the US) and I watched the final announcement by the Coast Guard. I was thinking, "I may throw up, but this is history". I feel the same now that they are beginning to study the remains of the Titan. I hope you follow up on this story. Meanwhile I'll binge your videos: I'm no architect or engineer, but Chernobyl and Fukushima have become part of our history, not to mention more recent events. Cheers from Europe!
The dropping of weights does not necessarily mean that they knew they were in trouble. Stockton mentioned that they usually drop the weights several hundred feet before they reach the bottom of the ocean to avoid the sub hitting the floor at a high speed. This was a way to “slow down” the descent. Only the OceanGate crew will know whether this dropping of weights was typical or atypical. But they’re not saying anything now.
James Cameron stated he spoke with people in that group of the mothership and said they dropped weights because they knew something was wrong and we’re trying to come up.
@@Seashellsbytheseashore21 Yeah, I heard that the message was that the cabin had been compromised and they were dropping weights. Sounds to me like he sprung a high pressure leak, maybe a small pinhole leak, and the compartment was filling with high pressure water. 2 minutes after this message was when the navy sensors detected an explosion. I think the leak into that sealed compartment blew it up like a balloon until it exploded.
I hope they didn’t have any warning of what was going to happen BUT I saw a video last night from a guy that went down in this submersible on its second dive, he said there were loud noises almost like gunshots going off the deeper they got and it happened during resurfacing also. I truly hope these sounds weren’t significantly worse before the implosion and gave them a chance to get worried about what might be happening. 🙏🏽
The last communication they sent was that they dropped their weights and that was before they reached their decent so they knew there was some type of trouble because they were going to attempt to resurface, but not as an expert in the matter but I would guess that they had no clue what was to follow because even the smallest leak would be instant implosion according to tests..
@@stackhat8624According to this video Titan made a total of 24 dives but there had been hull replacement in some. This current hull had made about 7 trips before the implosion, about 3 were manned.
That was really good. I loved the way you spoke slowly, and narrated carefully to the clear renderings. Too much of TH-cam is in your face and spoken at us rather than to us.
A search of "Did Titan try to surface? " results in an article (Insider) that notes the ballast had been released prior to implosion ... suggesting the passengers knew something was wrong and prompted them to urgently try to surface. Sadly, the idea that they died in blissful ignorance may not be wholly accurate.
Yeah they likely would hear cracking noises as the hull started caving in, but once it finally did. They died in about 0.01 seconds, or even faster even.
Yeah, that's why the engineer Oceangate fired said that Rush's acoustic monitoring system was worthless because by the time it would warn you that something is wrong it was likely too late to save you.
Love your comments towards the end about science and engineering, and how we rely on them without much thought until something goes wrong. I didn't realize they got 24 dives out of it before failure, I was thinking the number was much lower.
It's not clear how many of the Titan dives were partial depth or complete descent and return to the seabed where the Titanic is. Rush was a master at misdirection, What Oceangate called "successful trips" could have been just getting the 8-day package on the Mother ship, with or without a full dive to the wreck site. Or it could have included dives in other locations, with or without passengers. It also could be the media/social media picking up a piece of misinformation and amplifying it to where it becomes 'truth', even though no one has an original source.
Wow. Every time you showed the model of the implosion I get goosebumps and I jump. It’s so simple but powerful. I pray it was faster than a blink of an eye for those men so they weren’t afraid or didn’t feel anything. Especially that young boy who said he was afraid before he got the submersible. Wow😳
I was watching a video made about ten years ago about pressure test on carbon fiber cylindrical hulls. When the pressure hull failed it didn't equally crush like the metal ones did, it split length wise and allowed the pressure to equalize. I'm thinking something similar happened but not length wise due to their incorrect way of laying the carbon fiber so the split would have been ring shape. My theory is the carbon fiber started to de-laminate and bow in the middle and the two titanium hemispheres just crushed it inward like stepping on top of a empty soda can. I think along with the microphone to record the cracking of the carbon fiber they did mention they had a string indicator (a string strong across from one side of the sub to the other to monitor how much the vessel is compressing, an old trick from the earlier sub days), so my fear is they started noticing the string drop way more then normal or the cracking was really starting to intensify they then dropped the weights in an attempt to save it but by then it was too late. Fear of this being a moment before the implosion they knew they were probably doomed, also with this many layers of incorrectly layered carbon fiber I wonder if there wasn't a second or two of water making it in by traveling in between all the layers before the implosion. I hope not as this would have been horrifying for them but we just don't currently know for sure as there are no substantial testing of this situation with the method of wrapping carbon fiber as they did. Makes me so mad that this CEO thought it was perfectly fine to take people down there when there were so many experts with decades of experience telling him "Hey, you're going to get some one killed!" He truly thought he knew better then everyone else.
Yes you think of the pressure onto the face of the tube but the force from the domes onto the ends of the tube are huge too. After pressure cycles the composite fatigue must have started becoming a mess.
If there were no carbon fibers, I'd expect the hull to be squished flat at the waist. If there were longitudinal fibers which were parallel to the surface, it wouldn't be able to squish flat at the waist without substantially increasing the length of the longitudinal fibers, but the mechanical advantage would amplify the forces on the fibers enormously. To make a strong structure, the fibers's direction vector would need to have a component parallel to the applied force
Thanks mike, this was a really clear, concise, compassionate and non judgmental explanation of what happened down there by titanic. I’m glad the wreckage still supports a sudden catastrophic disaster and the 5 men wouldn’t have felt much at all, maybe a bit of anxiety at the very end when it started to go wrong. Have they released any footage from the 2 debris fields or do u think they’ll not share that info yet or at all? Did titan have a type of black box and if yes has it been recovered yet? Thx again
When you're dealing with extreme conditions like the deep ocean, you NEVER cut corners. If you want to innovate (which I'm all for), get your invention tested and certified. Never assume it will be fine.
After inspecting the titans stress tests in 2014 i had to walk off. Its amazing how no one went through with putting an end to this. I guess im included in it but we need more regulation
"we need more regulation" ------------------------------------------- Oh horror of horrors. Don't you know that more (government?) regulation would be catastrophic to human invention and evolution? Capitalists and entrepreneurs are way too superior to be hindered or restricted by such ponderous procedures.
"The ocean does not care if you are rich. But it does favor those who respect engineering and science, ahead of hubris and gut feel innovation" Beautiful said!
Problem is these guys aren’t rich, if they were rich they’d take the much more expensive but safer Russian subs James Cameron took.
Ya but apparently the news and rescue teams do since they’ve spent countless hours looking and recovering while refuges on boats all over the world are drowning every day.
@@chengong388no they were rich. The owner was just to irresponsible to take the necessary precautions he should’ve.
@@Quest4Luv_ they should take their safety serious too
@@chengong388yes they were rich, it cost 250k a person to go down there aren't you paying attention to the story?
4:55 I did vacuum design and engineering for a couple of decades. I designed several chambers for the aerospace industry (for testing spacecraft components) that were roughly the size of the Titan's crew compartment. The hemispherical end caps were 1/8" thick stainless steel ("helmet heads" for those in the biz) while the cylindrical center section was 1/4" thick SST, seam welded inside and out. And this is to hold out only 1 atmosphere, not the 400+ at Titanic's depth!
Any design engineer will tell you that a carbon fiber composite can never be used this way. It's not that they didn't overlap or bias-wind the structure, it's the material itself. The fibers in the composite are immensely strong in tension, but have zero strength in compression. That's why you can use it to make pressure tanks and vessels as the "hoop stresses" from the inside pressure cause the cylinder to try and expand, which is very efficiently resisted by the strength of the fibers. But when the forces are reversed, and the pressure is on the outside, the cylinder is compressed smaller, meaning that the fibers go slack, and provide nothing to the strength of the structure. The only thing holding the pressure is the matrix between the fibers (epoxy in this case). Epoxy is very strong in compression, but also very brittle. It will crack when flexed, meaning an absolutely guaranteed failure in a few cycles. I'm actually amazed they got that many dives out of it.
There's a good reason that "the experts" were all warning him, and insisting on more and different testing, and it's not just that they were jealous of his innovative "free thinking" mindset.e
Please do more of what you did here for it was perfect. You explained much of what I had heard before but more clearly and likely with a better understanding. It's not comparable to pressure tubes because the pressure in this case is outside and you can't push a string. I'm currently on a steel schooner but mostly familiar with fiberglass and Carbon Fiber and indeed epoxy is brittle which is why we add the fibers. Well done.
Good explanation!
Well, would be good to clarify some aspects related to composites:
This kind of composite, carbon fiber & epoxy, presentes mechanical properties according to direction of the reinforcement:
Considering fiber direction we can identify excelent mechanical resistence for tensile stress and less for compressive stress...
Considering direction perpendicular to fiber...we have good mechanical resistance for compression and less for tensile stress....
...The mechanical resistance of the composite depends on the amount of plys, sequence of staking , direction of the reinforcement and the ratio, in volume: fiber / matrix And temperature and moisture (absorption of water ) as well...
THUS, when working with composites, is very important to take these into account.
...Also, using shapes and wall thickness in such way that the stress will be reduced to a level that composite can" deal with".
Anyway, fatigue is a very complex point to be considered , we can never close the eyes for fatigue
...the small damages caused each time, loaded x unloaded , are cumulative and after some point , the colapse will occur
Seems the Ocean gate owner was a di*k! Arrogant ass who killed 4 people. No murdured 4 people!
@@Goddess-illias what a powerful analogy. Its actually a bit more like pulling a box with string - you can do that, but you can't push the box. If you put the string in a short, stiff hose, you can pull fine, push a little bit, but too much and the hose bends and eventually breaks with fatigue. Sort of. I'm reminded of the Segway inventor who took a metaphor a little too far and ended up going off the edge of a cliff.
So, at the end it was pretty much just a gigantic soda can wrapped up with extra material, hoses and cables. No one can even call it a floating casket cause everyone inside just disintegrated. The implosion animation here gave me the chills. Great job! Amazing video.
It was a flaoting cremation unit
@@MikeBarbarossa Pretty much a manmade black hole cremation machine. CEO got proto-spaghettied.
@@RockNRollSurf and the logitech controller?
Instead of mostly being made of titanium, Rush decided to only have the front window part be made of titanium and the rest of it carbon fiber.
@@abdulSprucethey were 1hr45 into the 2hr journey down iirc, which would be approximately 2860m/9370ft depth. My personal guess is mostly juice but perhaps some part of the torso could remain. Would be a shame if it’s just reminants of some slime on the recovered debris
This was very nicely done. The demonstration with the soda can was both captivating and haunting
And now I want a coke too
I hope its relatively safe to perform because i for one will be trying this
@DunkinBiscuits its a simple experiment just wear some eye protection just in case.
Thanks Mike. Now that's what i call an informative, understandable and educational presentation of what happened. No unnecessary dramatization or boring fillers. Just pure on-point information.
I couldn't agree any more.. This illustration is the most indepth yet simple enough for the layman to grasp...
Exactly! Very interesting.
I’ve watched a lot of these informational videos on the titan and this is by far the clearest and best explained one. Thanks
Glad to hear it!
I agree. Have just subscribed..
I agree; this is a succinct, clear explanation with exceptional graphics, and you maintained respectful commentary of this tragedy. Thank you so much!
With an example to add for understanding of how fast it happened.
Not sure why Carbon Fiber was used.
This is the most accurate animation of what happened. All the others are so slow.
Thanks. Glad you agree.
How do you know that?
@@mazzugaraputting coke can in cold water ring pull first shows ring pull let go, so assume window did the same
It's not that they were too slow, it's slowed down for the human eyes, but this is the closest animation correspondent to the debris found. The other ones had every bit shredded to pieces or the carbon fiber caving in and remaining intact.
@@anitanoterajesno they are taking about stuff like that popular tiktok video showing the ocean gate completely crushed no pieces left turns out the owner of that account was a jack 🫏 and posted weird stuff
Superbly clear
This is the most accurate animation that I have seen. You kept the certain parts intact, while others usually have those crush as well.
Agree
People just wanted clicks and made up videos based on fuzzy logic. The end caps were titanium. One person was inside the front end cap. There would have been remains such as legs arms. The end caps were not crushed just most likely the tube failed. Those in the tube section would likely have been pancaked.
@@Physics072Stockton was at one end, I am sure. And the other end, perhaps the youngest was giving the window seat…
@@Physics072 It's my understanding all organic matter would have been pulverized, as in, turned to dust.
@@Imnotplayinganymore Water would immediately dissipate the intense heat (14,000 degrees F) generated by the implosion of the air's immediate compression to about 0.00253 its original volume, although there would be surface scorching. The compression of the collapsing steel can inside the compromised titanium shell would provide the physical force to immediately crush its contents much like a trash compactor, but there would likely be identifiable remains.
This is by far the best illustration and demonstration of exactly what happened. Really nice job! My condolences to the families of the passengers in the submersible.
We don’t know exactly what happened yet. The window had also come out of the end cone, as we can see from videos of what the recovery team brought back, so that may have been the component that failed.
@@grahamf695 - Or it could have been blasted outward in the implosion of the main hull.
@@scootergeorge7089 the window is one candidate, because it was certified to only a much shallower depth. Still, I agree that it is too early to know. No doubt there are many broken pieces and they won’t have been able to recover all of them, so it will be a challenge to work out which piece broke first.
the families had to have been terrified the entire time.
@@grahamf695 Maybe someone wanted to open the window, maybe someone let one
This is exactly the video I was hoping someone would make. Thank you.
I am an engineering student that literally has just taken a class on carbon composites and one of the main things I learned about pressure vessels is that layup should be around 55 degrees from horizontal to maximize strength. If they didn't even put that kind of consideration into the orthotropic nature of carbon fibers I don't think they put much thought into the design of this vessel. It is such a shame.
They should've made a sphere out of metal instead of a giant brittle soda can. Would be less compact for the same amount of passengers, but much safer.
Gas cylinders are made of composites and as far as I know they use the angled layups, not as a spool of thread seen here.
Hubris; pride comes before the fall, a lesson for us all. Rush was a criminal and a massive POS. Many warned him, including a man on Rush’s own team; his response? He fired then sued him: th-cam.com/video/pE_NY8tf5tU/w-d-xo.html
i mean look at it.. it looks like a make-shift space ship made to sit in a kids playpark.. i know functionality trumps presentation, but it didn't even had that.
The most important thing for me in a vessel like that is a comfortable flushing toilet because i would have been farting ginormous gas bubbles.
This is a very respectful video on such a terrible incident. Thank you.
It is but close to the day of the incident close to 500 immigrants died that day in a boat but nobody is really taking about it rip 505 dead people
@@JOSEPH_EDITSW yes but these were 5 billionaires of which one was a stark craving lunatic.
@@Pozi_Drive Fr Xd
@@Pozi_Drive What was the lunatic craving? I think he was more an arrogant, flawed individual. Either way, he's dead now, and his limited engineering education died with him.
@@Joe-by8jh Those were 500 people just like you escaping their country in hopes of a better life
Presentation on point with dynamic graphics and illustrations. Well done!
Very good presentation and information
Presentation excellent a layman can follow just how this tragic event came to an end. RIP to the 5 gentleman who perished.
@@cynthiahusband106 one of them was an idiOt
Best Example I've seen so far! Not being overly complicated simply put, to the point!
Glad you appreciate my approach 😃
@@Mike-Bell 110% agree. This was incredibly helpful with the schematic. Clear, straightforward, no BS, not tilted to any one side, and refreshingly short. Thank you!
Excellent video! Thanks for the most detailed and no-nonsense explanation I've seen on this event. Like you, I sort of knew when the last signal received from Titan was an hour and forty-five minutes into the dive, something catastrophic had happened right then. There was absolutely no need for the days of news reports telling how much air they supposedly had left. Again, thanks for a great video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
that implosion. It's really hard to grasp how violent and quick it must have been. under 6000psi, the volume of air in the pressure tube would have compressed to something like 1/500th its original size, at supersonic speeds, igniting the air, and pulverizing anything within it.
It's kind of like a bullet shrimp/mantis shrimp punch (extreme pressure, supercavitation, pressure heating, atmospheric oscillation) but on a much larger, terrible scale.
Ignoring whether they had any forewarning, as a "way to go" total, instant obliteration like that is relatively humane as you aren't aware it happens, the off switch is just pressed with instant effect.
We can only hope they were relatively unstressed before it happened as that would be the truly harrowing part.
It is a great way to die because it is completely instant. People are gone out of existence before they have time to think about it
Just watched another video talking about a sub that imploded a few years ago. They were at a depth of about 1200-1300 feet, so approx 1/10 the Titan sub, and when it collapsed the hull (at 550-600psi) would of collapsed at 1500 MPH which is somewhere close to Mach 2.
The Titan was much closer to 6000 psi.
@@Trigger200284same one I watched 2mins before this one
@@Trigger200284 Which other sub was it that imploded? Was it a military sub? If so, from where?
I was involved in some early research of using carbon fiber to make scuba diving tanks. This turned out to be an excellent fit for carbon fiber and it does help to alter the direction of the fiber application. However carbon fiber only works with internal pressure which puts the fibers under load which prevents the epoxy, which it is layered with, from bursting. With oceangate the exact opposite happened. Basically you can think of every bit of their structure being nothing more than an epoxy shell as the carbon fiber does very little when external forces are pushing inwards.
If anything, the fibre would weaken the epoxy. Now you only have thin layers of it, interspersed with the fibres which would simply slump without an internal force with substance to keep them in place. Think of it like a sausage shaped balloon inflated to the point where it holds its shape, wrapped in bands of fibre. If you tried to inflate it further, the bands would keep it from expanding. Now put the balloon in a vacuum chamber, suck the air out of the chamber (under-pressure), and the balloon with fibre wrap would collapse.
I would've thought a titanium sphere was a good material and shape ...but I'm no engineer
Give me a certificate
At this point I am astounded as how the implosion didn't occur on their very first trip to the bottom of the ocean.
Carbon fiber is also used to hold tanks for CNG (compressed natural gas), which is about 3-4000 psi, from my recollection. Again, the pressure is from the inside out, not the reverse. I had been wondering how they put the carbon fiber under tension in a compressive situation, and I am shocked to learn that they didn't even try. I can't imagine how it made 23 prior dives without imploding.
Indeed carbon fibre works well for aircraft that need to pressurise because the carbon fibres work well under tension, they're not quite as effective under compression, still better than regular polymer but still not ideal.
In an interview one of Rush's friends said that in a previous dive they heard a cracking noise during the decent. I believe the friend told him after that they shouldn't dive in the Titan again.
Captain Obvious was his name
Aren’t sounds of steel compressing under immense pressure normal to hear while in submarines? Pipes makes tons of sounds as they expand and contract under hot and cold temperatures, as anyone who’s experienced old heating systems knows. This is a question I’ve not seen answered yet.
@@TheFutureLooksGrimm Perhaps if the central structure was made of metal. But it wasn't.
@@TheFutureLooksGrimmit wasn't made of steel. Did you have the video on mute???
@@T1000-s4j you misunderstood my question. Read slowly. I know the hull of the Titan was made out of carbon fiber. I’ve read a everyday about this. Normal submarines are made of steel and they do indeed compress and make sounds. Therefore we can assume that a certain amount sound of the submersible’s carbon fiber hull compressing would be normal. Anything compressing makes a sound normally.
I just read that military sub personnel do a little fun test, they put tape or a line from one side to another, and as the submarine dives deeper (nowhere near crush depth) it line or tape begins to drape. Visual confirmation of the steel compressing. James Cameron said his vessel compressed at least 3 inches. Steel, Titanium, Carbon fiber, it all is going to make a sound when being subject to compression. Sound alone is not an indication of failure.
When you design with carbon fiber, most times you end up chasing away its shortcomings until its benefits have been nulled. Weight is often the biggest advantage of CF but as soon as you need metal doubler plates, and joint reinforcement, and end fittings, you’ve introduced so much complexity that machining and iso grid structure makes more sense. CF is a material you use with great intention and foresight/testing.
While CF (the fiber itself) is very strong in tension, it becomes practically useless because it is flexible by nature. Under these kinds of loads it might as well have been just cast resin.
We get already😮
I think we should send more rich folks down
I don't care how many are killed, we must save the planet!
Thank you for a very clear, informative explanation as to what happened to Titan.
I appreciate your comment.
@@Mike-Bell I also like the animation but I feel that there's room for more information about the pattern of scattering of the debris field of the submersible as it can indicate details on the implosion depth and other data an animation about it would have fancied but good job .. altogether
I know that the rescue team didn't release the ROV videos of the submersible debris field .
You're welcome.
I remember reading a book when I was a little boy about ships. In the chapter on submarines, the book showed a page on the submarines that dived down into the deepest depths. Two of them were the Alvin and the other was the Trieste. Both of these vessels were built to handle the pressures of the ocean. The Titan disaster was trying to use the less is more philosophy in construction of this submarine. The lesson learned is that for any environment that is to be explored, always listen to others who have gone before you.
This incident made me research deep sea diving. It was surprising to learn that the Trieste dove to the deepest place on Earth over 60 years ago, and since then there's been no major accidents or fatalities in this field. This tragedy was completely avoidable if they followed industry standards.
Instead of learning from past subs like you said, Stockton tried to reinvent the wheel and make it square. "My square wheel is better, I'm an innovative genius" KAABBOOM
I think the Trieste was rated to go half again deeper than the Marianas Trench.
127mm thick Titanium sphere.
50% reserve of safety at the deepest point in the ocean.
“If I had gone further, it was by standing on the shoulders of giants”. Sir Isaac Newton when asked by his assistant, how he had accomplished so much.
@@patrickhorvath2684 and the Trieste still had an accident
"One of the Plexiglas windows in the outer layer of Trieste's "eye" had cracked. The two men inspected the crack, and with approximately another two kilometers to go to the bottom, decided to press on."
This is the best analysis that I have seen. The animation is particularly illustrative. Before now, I did not know that they dropped their weights, which clearly indicates that they knew that they were in trouble.
Yep - it's been found now that they did try to get back up to the surface before the implosion. I just pray they didn't know for long. What horror 😢😢
It's probably safer to wait for the results of the inquest. Until such times all theories are just speculation.
@@TheCandiceWang
Edsedlak6827,
My thoughts exactly. Don't know if this information was brought up elsewhere, and if so, this is the first I've heard about it...and which actually makes the whole thing even more tragic...and creepy.
There was a guy from I believe Discovery channel that was sent to do a story when Oceangate was in the Bahamas and he said they heard loud cracking sounds coming from the hull and Rush would try to explain it away..😬
The carbon wrap process was shocking, I initially thought it was a demo. I've worked in F1 and Aviation on the 787's wing. So, I have a background in this field. There are many air gaps in the wrap that can be compressed, with stored energy with an uncontrolled release.
I could not believe what I was seeing. The entire hull was CF wrapped circumferentially, so there were no fibres in the longitudinal direction. It was not done in a clean environment and there was no process to remove air bubble inclusions. Clearly OceanGate had not the faintest idea what they were doing.
@@Smannellites Then how come it had been to the Titanic several times ?
As per your response, there was clearly an excess of " micro porosity"
@@paulweston285 Fatigue damage is progressive, and grows after each pressure cycle. The Titan's hull would have been weaker after each dive. As someone else said, it was an accident waiting to happen.
@@paulweston285 I played Russian Roulette several times and lived. Did I know what I was doing? Was I being safe just because I lived?
You animation skills are insanely good! And a good easy to understand explanation.
Thank You.
Rush actually said that safety standards get in the way of innovation. Wow!
I heard him say that, too, that safety was a waste of time. Unreal!!!
It's Rush saying let the hair go with the hide.
He also committed an astonishing 'face palm' error of logic/deduction when he said that 'over engineering' was unnecessary because most accidents weren't caused by structural failures, but by operator error! - um, no, it shows that the 'over engineering' has WORKED to remove structural failure as a cause, not that it isn't necessary.
Innovation was just another word for money.
@@nm9412 he wanted to change things and make a lot of money, or die, he didn't care and selfishly took others with him.
I like that the implosion sound effects used in this video is an actual sound recording of an imploding submersible. Luckily in that case, it was an unmanned vehicle, the ROV Jason.
Whoever's idea it was to look in the area below the sub's last known location is a genius.
Probaby some geezer with a doctorate in search and rescue...
James Cameron said that he knew all along. He said he should have said something earlier.
Lmao....ya think
I'd never of thought of that, But the sub I build will be better than this 😂
@@susanruck9197 Yes, he questioned why they went outward on the search. Some people were ragging Cameron like he was somehow a part of this. But no, he was just as puzzled and confused as the rest of us on that one. I'm not so sure him saying something would have changed the odd search decisions. It seems like common sense, and if they weren't listening to common sense, they weren't going to listen to him either!
As a carbon fiber specialist, I bet on the same scenario from the first day.
The weak point is neither the carbon or the tinanium, but the carbon/titanium interface.
If water seeps between the two, the resistance of the carbon winding is useless and the pressure will crush the inner titanium tube.
But it started slowly, depending on the infiltration rate, it seems to have taken more than 15 minutes before deformations accelarated the infiltration rate and then the final collapse occurred.
I think you are absolutely right. The three elements simply moved differently and independently of each other.
I'm very grateful for your conclusion at the end. We have become so saturated with all kinds of progress and convenience that we just take it for granted. We should all be more humble and thankful for the possibilities we have nowadays.
I’m so glad you agree with sentiments.
We should be more suspicious and not take science as the new religion.
5:59 There was a brief statement given that there was explosion heard. The reason for not immediately saying they imploded is that it is better to continue searching and find out later that the ship was long gone. Had they called off the search and an intact hull with bodies was later found, there would be serious repercussions to any leadership of the rescue as well as public backlash.
Also, the sound was plausibly an implosion, but not guaranteed to be.
Also, and most importantly, the first ROV that could go as deep as 4000m was immediately called upon and was mobilized from buffalo to the wreck site within 4 days. 32 tons of delicate equipment, plus the crew, plus all the installation of the equipment. they immediately went down and searched for the probable site of implosion debris and found it within a few hours. It's unbelievably fast. like above-all-expectations fast.
Every expert speculated on the implosion because it was the most likely scenario, but it was unproven before the debris were found. You couldn't even hope for the debris to be found as fast as they were.
I think it has as much to do with throwing a few red-herrings to the media to keep them from descending on the search site whilst the search was still in progress. Also, I am sure the US Navy would want to confirm what they believed they were hearing before making any bold statements.
I am 99% certain most of us knew that the submersible was gone as soon as they heard that contact had been lost.
Thank you for taking the time to make this reconstruction. It demonstrates the crush pressure so well, especially with the addition of the soda can. Your models are really clean and well made.
Glad it was helpful! More like this to come
Incredible illustration of what most likely occured to the Titan.. I cant thank you enough for your time in putting this together, giving us, a visual. My thoughts and prayers go out the the family, friends and colleagues of the submersible. ❤
Glad it was helpful 😊
@@Mike-Bell 👍🙏🏽🙏🏽👍👍🙏🏽
My imagination of the implosion was that the carbon fiber tube gave-in to the pressure and instantly went from a round cross section to a flat cross section, like a cardboard toilet paper tube between two clapping hands. This would have jellified everything inside and blown out the two relatively intact titanium ends in opposite directions, possibly blowing out the porthole too.
There are a few reasons the sounds of the implosion weren't released sooner.
1 - The DOD - Military picked up the sound but didn't know what it was. It could of been a cargo container falling off a ship imploding, a depth charge or other military exercise, one of the tanks on the vessel, or many other things. They just knew they heard something and reported that up DOD/Mil channels.
2 - 2hr's later, an emergency call was issued on Civilian channels that contact was lost. Assistance needed. No one would have checked for a possible implosion because they think it is still intact and suffered a power failure.
3 - At some point in time, the sound was passed to rescue crews to help them better search.
4 - This is the important part. - Searches are not called off because someone thinks something happened. You need to verify. Upon verification, and due to the unique situation (implosion), rescue was impossible and it then switched to a recovery and families and press notified.
Nothing occurred in the SAR portion that is out of the ordinary. No major conspiracy, it was put into the press because it was a modern day kid fell down well story that captivates people. The press came up with their theories because they run a 24/7 news cycle and they need something. As it takes time to get rescue ships to the area, and the press then starts filling time by calculating how much air they have left..... this helps them generate interest and views. Yes this causes anguish towards the family waiting to hear the fate of their loved ones however..... you cannot put it the press that you heard an implosion before you verify. It looks bad, but it's oh so much worse if you tell someone their loved ones are dead but they aren't because you haven't verified.
This very much. Society owes every lost person a proper search. Imagine if the National Park rangers decided to not look for a missing hiker because they saw that a pack of wolves they were tracking were in the same area and just assumed the hiker was eaten... Only for their dessicated body to be found uneaten at the bottom of a ravine a year later.
Right.. the noise coincided with the loss of communication with the sub. The sub was made from plastic.
But a propagandists must keep its flock in line, right? 😂😂😂
@@DS-lk3tx I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I can't imagine anyone has ever seriously suggested to call off the search. I believe his point was repeating James Camerons who had this info and knew it was finished. When I learned the controversial construction and the point at which it lost communication I too assumed it was lost. It was indeed a compelling news story and that fact alone would have had editors holding off on presenting facts which made the search seem more like one of recovery. If Cameron knew, others knew, ie. any journalist that had reached out to Cameron or any of his colleagues, so yeah it is most likely a bit of a conspiracy.
Thanks great explanation
Wow man, well demonstrated. The sound that you've chosen for the implosion is so perfectly scary... chills.
thank you for demonstrating how the submersible could have collapsed. i started to get annoyed seeing the one tiktok animation over and over again and it was the only one i kept finding. i honestly wanted to see different possibilities how it couldve looked like and your video is one of those.
Your synopsis is spot on, and thank you for your time and integrity. During our human experience, we constantly allow ego to crash endeavor. This is our insanity.
so exceptionally well-made and respectfully explained, thankyou!
Nicely done. As a fellow architect, my interest and deep respect for engineering and science mirrors yours. It took my career into the field of complex adaptive systems & simulation technologies. When I saw the video of them smearing glue (epoxy presumably) on the inside of the Titanium collar I was flabbergasted at the loose dimensional tolerances that enabled the ring to slip over the carbon fiber tube with ease. Surely, I thought, they aren’t relying on hand-smeared epoxy to seal the gap. Also I did a few bending moment calcs which I then rotated 360 degrees and wondered whether bending stresses and shear forces at the glued titanium rings from the enormous uniform loading had ever been simulated or tested with different carbon fiber weaves…..a sad loss for sure but, aside from the panic over the emergency, the implosion would have happened far faster than any awareness would have been possible.
Astonishing, that glueing bit...no squeeze out, and just what, 2 inches of contact area between ring and tube. I'm nowhere near an engineer, but mixing some epoxy in a scadgy bucket then scraping it on like that didn't look like the sort of precision engineering where you need it most on a submersible...yeah, I know, everyone's an expert in hindsight!
@@jnavonoD I agree and had similar thoughts - surly they weren't relying on *that* to keep out 370 atmospheres...no, they are.
I find it incredible that they were able to not only locate, but recover so much of OceanGate.
it was found under where tracking was lost.
Tells you those espousing about it don’t know wtf they speak of
Goes to show anything can be lifted from the ocean floor if it wants to be
@@terminalfrost3645 And the implosion occurred only 300m above the ocean floor, so there was relatively little scattering of the debris.
They had to clean up the evidence . 😅
Thank you Mike…
I’ve often heard “Academics learn in order to do, while entrepreneurs do in order to learn” and “fail fast” as better ways of innovating.
It’s rare to get a shout out for scientists engineers and techs who focus on not only reliable design but manufacture, economy, testing, maintenance, lifetime reliability and safety. We also work to carefully experiment with new materials and techniques as we build a safety case. Being accused of analysis paralysis often by entrepreneurs…I hope they consider collaborating with those who know, to help them do new things and live.
Scientist this out side the box, engineers think inside the envelope, and entrepreneurs think about their wallet
Had there been actual research into alternative materials for deep sea vessels, which had come to nothing?
@@matthewlongstaff3112 Yes, the navy has done so.....
Academics learn from experience and past mistakes. Developing anything will require many evolutions to make the item as safe as is practical to use. (Mark I, II, III etc)
You start with the simplest idea and find the right ways to make it work. It could be argued that many tragedies have led to a more safety conscious approach to development.
RMS Titanic is a good example of this. By the time of her launch, steam power was thought of as a modern wonder but little thought had been given to the use of rockets at sea being used distinctly for distress reasons. There were no regulations controlling the use of wireless meaning ships with powerful antennas could send messages all over the ocean with little thought to the fact that their 'commercial messages' might be interfering with messages relating to safety, and of course, 16 lifeboats and four collapsible’s should be more than enough to cater to the needs of 2,240 souls at sea.
I dare say the first caveman only needed to put his hand in the fire one time to make up his mind not to do so again, after which point he warned others not do so.
@@KebabMusicLtd yes… and we already have a reliable, safe way of bringing on new materials and designs through an established certification process and System Engineering Design and Test & Evaluation This CEO chose to avoid it.
Greatly enjoyed hearing your narration. You have a very comforting voice. Great graphics!
Thank you for explaining what happened so clearly. The soda can demo was an extremely powerful demonstration.
Thank you for explaining how this sub looked and worked. I can’t believe it could get so close to Titanic.
Same here…. The Titan wreckage ALMOST LANDED on TOP of the the actual Titanic… I wonder what everyone’s reaction would have been if it HAD done so…🤔🐢
It has done previous dives and that was Rush’s biggest mistake. His arrogance got them all killed. After each dive, the submersible’s life expectancy was being shortened. The wear and tear, which was neglected, became its doom.
@@turtlejeepjen314 Not even close.... 1600ft away. That is like 3 football fields.
The government even advised them that the Titan shouldn't even reach a 3rd of the depth where the Titanic is, but due to the CEO's arrogance, they all unjustifiably died in a very gruesome but quick way
It was essentially a brick that sometimes could be made to surface.
"None of this seamless operation would be possible without the unsung heroes: our army of brilliant scientists and engineers quietly and unseen. Making sure everything functions effortlessly. Our reliance on them is undeniable. The ocean does not care if you are rich. But it does favor those who respect engineering and science, ahead of hubris and gut feel innovation."
Well said, sir. I will remember this quote for the rest of my life. We will do better, I believe in us.
Keeping this quote, thx
This quote hits different, i choked when I heard it.
Awesome video. Great ending commentary about the ocean not caring if you are rich. I grew up in NZ where many people have drowned in the sea, so our teachers constantly reminded us how dangerous it was. I'd never get in a sub like that one.
Thank you for explaining everything in a more understanding way
You're very welcome!
Great video. I especially liked the coke can heated and then placed in ice. Best demonstration I've seen so far. Good animations, too.
Yes the coke can demo
This story is unreal no matter how much I read or watch about it. There is a Mexican TH-camr who went down on the sub and saw the Titanic. Just watching that alone is unreal.
Really well done with concise explanations and animations! This is approachable for people who’ve never learned about these topics, but also not so basic as to be unhelpful to those who are familiar with these concepts. What you’ve made here is leagues better than a lot of what I’ve seen from news sources with whole departments & budgets & consultants for this (who should be far better at doing this than they’ve demonstrated thus far).
I really hope you continue to make more videos on this topic, and it would be cool to see videos with a similar approach to other types of engineering or planning failures. You truly have a gift for communicating these types of events, without sensationalism and without sugarcoating or downplaying what has happened.
Wonderful job! I’ll be subscribing and looking forward to more videos like this one! I know I’m just some random person in youtube comments but I hope you realize the gift you have here!!
This is an excellent analysis.
I am no expert, but I am reminded of the difficulties experienced with the early Comet jetliners. That was also a situation where repeated cycles of compression and decompression caused fatigue over time in a way that engineers had not anticipated. The Comet was operating under stresses that passenger aircraft had not yet operated under.
The problem with that analogy is the designers of the Titan had generations of engineering history to look back upon (much of which they disregarded), unlike the Comet engineers. The analogy would be proper if the Comet were designed today with all its flaws!
I like this one. Little conjecture, but informative. I was also surprised at the carbon fiber wrapping being unilateral. It was wrapped over a steel - which also surprised me. There are lots of issues to deal with. Good job.
And yet, it survived 23 times, with vigorous inspections in between dives. I think the weak link was the glue that held the rings on each end of the carbon fiber tube. What ever happened started happening about half way down, and it looks like for about 6 minutes they struggled to come up, before implosion occured. I think a tube failure would have been all at once. But a glue seam failing might take several minutes to separate and implode.
Stockton Rush struck me as one of those subtly charismatic "old money" WASPs who become minor cult leaders, to both their employees and their -dupes- customers... but most ruinously, to themselves... "up his own arse" as the Brits say. Apparently for every paying customer that made the dive, 2 or 3 others came, saw... and wisely backed out, with raised eyebrows. At least one couple had to sue to get their deposit back.
💯
He wasn’t rich.
a grifter and a chancer.
I can agree with with you Practically about every characterization of RUSH you give except one . and it it the ONE really creates a problem for me about WHITE APOLOGISTS OAFS like you. OLD MONEY WASP.
To begin with RUSH was a Christian ...not a protestant and second , his type of attitude is found in every GODDAMENED RACE on this planet . If you are ashamed of your own white skin change it , paint yourself any damned color you like , but do the white race a favor ,do not mention WHITE ...you give the race a bad name and we have nothing to apologize for . Perhaps 45 to 55 years spent reading history from end to end will teach you something about the human race and how each color is as bad or good as the other ..
@@PeregrineFisher
How so?
splendid work ! It's great to see a less dramatised perspective on this, just what actually happened, as it happened. and that brief monologue at the end sums this up beautifully.
This channel is the absolute real deal. So much so that it's the only one that gave me continuous chills and goosebumps throughout
I worked with this composite material for years for use in dead tank circuit breakers on a global scale. These parts undergo unbelievable amounts of pressure and heat during use in the Interrupter. At one point, Inventory was mistakenly providing production with expired parts as they have a shelf life to abide by. This caused the breakers to fail tests. I understand Stockton purchased outdated material for the hull. If this is true, this submersible was a ticking time bomb based on that alone.
🙏🏼😞
IIRC he purchased outdated carbon fiber from Boeing(?) and iirc, this video said that the CF was used for the cylindrical body part (5 inches thick)
From other TH-cam sites, where materials engineers have comments, it's my understanding that the carbon fiber composite has great tensile strength, but low compression strength, that it is difficult to diagnose failure until it does fail, at which time it shatters.
@@TheCandiceWangBoeing commented that OceanGate or Stockton Rush never approached them at all.
@@frogmen6105 your English is fine!
Excellent graphics and analysis
Great explanation and video Mike! Keep them coming
Mr. Bell, you are an extremely likable guy. Thank you so much for making this video.
So nice of you! I value facts, accuracy and credibility and more to come. Welcome aboard.
For me it is always a red flag when a new guy comes in and declares that he knows better than the entire industry.
Cool video, it will be interesting to see the details that will come out of this from the investigation. Keep up the good content Mike!
Just like that, the titan crumbled to the mighty sea and forever lost the souls that were inside it, families of those lost will forever be changed, and as for the ocean, it continued to forever sparkle under the sun and be just as powerful as it has always been. The ocean is nothing to be careless with.
Same about outer space.
Ocean: f*ck around and find out.
Your last sentence earned you a thumbs up from me, the ocean fears no man!
Well said
This is probably the best video I've seen yet that covers the implosion aspect of this tragedy. The reenactment using CGI and the Coke can experiment really wow'd me. Great content.
Come back for more 😀
The best video ? Son of the bitch…
Yup, the main difference is that the aluminum can merely crumpled, while the carbon fiber shell apparently shattered into tiny pieces. Any recovered parts are are probably adhered to the metal frame, among with bits of flash-cooked human remains.
@@hopsiepike flash cooked? the implosion generated heat?
@@pollystyrene99 like the surface of the sun, instant vaporized
I really appreciate the last bit of the video where you talk about the experts, the scientific minds who we should all listen to. This disaster could've been prevented if it weren't for the hubris and arrogance of one individual against centuries of knowledge and experience.
You had the animation that we all were waiting for! Great job!
I heard someone saying that problem with Titan's design was that carbon-fibre has limited lifespan on so many dives. If you want to make carbon fibre sub you need to completely replace it every few dives. I'm surprised that was 24th dive. That was extremely greedy. Another good insight was provided by you: "Fillaments were rolled in one direction only". Maybe if they rolled it in all directions this wouldn't happen or would happen after many more dives instead. But seriously..they didn't test how many dives can this carbon-fibre structure survive to cut costs. Now instead of dollars they payed with lives.
No it wasn't the 24th dive, it was 7th dive with that exact hull.
Not sure if it’s true but I heard that last time they were on this same submersible it was giving problems and still ignored the signs 🤦🏽♂️
Rush purchased the carbon fiber from Boeing - which boeing had “retired” bc of its age and stored in a warehouse for quite some time
@@rejuvenatingsoul3498 I've seen different numbers . 9 for instance, but I don't know where the maker of the video got 24 from.
I’ve been waiting for a clear description of what happened thank you Mike
Thank you so much for doing exactly what the title said you would do: give us an in-depth analysis of the implosion. So many other videos claim to do that and tell us nothing in the video. This is by far the best video I’ve seen explaining what happened.
My pleasure!
Excellent Sir, neutral, professional, covered the angles and good sequential logistics with explanations. Thank-you.
Easily the best coverage of this incident🎉 Thank you!
This is a really good channel man.
Been wanting to see something like this. Very well done.
One of the best if not the best analysis available. Thank you for sharing this and I hope your channel continues to grow.
Much appreciated!
This is the best and clear animated video I have seen lately showing what actually happened to the Titan. Thanks! I just subscribed!!
Video we've been waiting for. Analysis, temporal and spatial is superb.Could be used as a primer for would be explorers.
Thanks for excellent explanation sir.
Thanks Diwas
Carbon fiber is far stronger in extension than compression. That fact alone makes it a lousy choice for any sort of pressure hull. It weakens with each dive because stresses build up and then dissipates with each dive due to fractures within the material forming and joining with others until eventually it fails suddenly.However, this was not the only deadly flaw lurking in the Titan submersible. The view port was only rated for 4,000 feet, not 13,000 feet. If it failed the result would have still been an immediate implosion. The bond between the carbon fiber center section and one or both of the end rings could have also failed because they were inherently flawed to begin with. I suspect the Coast Guard will find conclusive evidence of what caused Titan to implode and how.
100% agree, with the fact that Carbon fiber are excellent against tensional stress rather compressive stress.... Good to make its use in space where internal pressure is more than outside but not for under water with high pressure outside.....
Tension can resist crushing though, in a circle. For the circle to go out of round requires one part to compress but ALSO requires another part to stretch.
Wow ! Suddenly everyone Is an expert on the appropriate material composition to construct a deep sea submersible
@@lionheart4552at least everyone who hasn’t kllld 5 people
All they needed was a couple of cans of Flex Seal
Nicely done
As someone who designs and builds with glass and resin, the strand orientation is baffling. The predominant direction of fiber should be along the longitudinal axis, the only thing working to resist the forces involved here is the resin. A chopped strand blown tube would have been more effective at resisting pressures.
And why!? I still haven’t heard an answer why Stockton chose carbon over steel? Cost!? What was the differential ?
You want long shelf life? Build a big oven and shove your steel sun into it and anneal every 50 dives. Brand new.
Carbon prepreg. Only gets worse with age
I suspect a failure like that shown in th-cam.com/video/8tW4zfTeJqM/w-d-xo.html video posted ten months ago, showing a tiny model submarine in a deep sea chamber. If the composite delaminated, it could have been squashed flat like shown without breaking any of the circle-wrapped carbon fibers therein, rendering the strength of the fibers a moot point. Having some fibers running from the outer perimeter of the hull at the bow, to the inner perimeter at the waist, and then the outer perimieter at the stern would have improved strength a lot, but there should also have been fibers running radially and wrapped around something near the inner and outer surfaces. In order for the hull to collapse, it would have to get thicker, so fibers connecting the inside and outside would be positioned to discourage that from happening.
This was really good, I just can’t believe how something thrown together cheaply even made it to those depths a couple time before, you said trip 24? I heard they only went to the Titanic like 3 times, if the guy just retired it after a couple dives and built another probably would of worked, it’s just crazy that military subs or submarines in general can’t go that far, but that guy basically used a “water heater” and made it to the bottom of the ocean
Titan was by no means cheap. It was just cheaper. But when you are already spending big sums of money saving a few bucks is so dumb. If the main centre body had been titanium too I suspect some other non redundant system would have inevitably caused a disaster. Quite bizarre the way he dissed safety.
@@Mike-Bell ya that’s what I was thinking, the guy had money so why not make it perfect? Thanks for replying, I just keep seeing this stuff pop up but you’re video was the best one
it has many trips yes, but there have been hull replacement in those. this current hull had made about 7 trips before the implosion, about 3 or so were manned.
@@terminalfrost3645 ok cool thanks for the information
@@terminalfrost3645 Thanks for the important information and that sounds a lot better. Do you have the source.
Thank you for this. The demonstration at 3:15 was excellent
Great presentation Mike. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for cutting through the chatter, Mike. Even to a lay person, there seem to be so many weaknesses. I have to wonder at the junctions of the titanium bands and the steel-lined carbon fiber/plastic tube. Didn’t these dissimilar materials rely on epoxy to hold them together under extreme pressure? Yikes!
@@Mike-Bell The epoxy is essentially plastic, which would not react to pressure the same way titanium would. I realize that the composite could have delaminated at any point. I also saw on the BBC that the evidence retrieved included a big canvas sack of something…could have been shards of epoxy. Those tube ends epoxied into titanium just look to a lay person like a failure waiting to happen. I am shocked to learn that the carbon fiber was wound as a simple spiral. What a terrible choice. The late CEO actually reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes, who insisted that she could do what all experts in the field told her was impossible. The OceanGate CEO thought he knew more about materials and deep submergence than the experts in the field. They both started with the end result they wanted and then tried, in the name of innovation, to force a path to it that disregarded good science and engineering. Now they have both paid.
@@maudessen573 made this very same observation about Elizabeth Holmes today! "innovation" at the expense of innocent lives. if he had only put himself at risk (like test pilots), he may have actually earned the respect he so desperately sought.
@@Mike-BellI work with epoxy every day and I’ve bonded (or tried to bond) almost every construction material you can think of. When I saw the video of them smearing the epoxy right onto that smooth titanium, I immediately had a strong feeling where the failure occurred. The only way to truly bond epoxy to metal is with mechanical interface… or essentially small nodules or protrusions in the metal surface… or at very least very coarse sanding or scoring of the titanium surface.
If you have ever had a carbon bike or known someone who had them you would know what a POS they are. They work great on paper but they are inherently brittle and don't last. I was pretty shocked when I learned this is what they did. And all for buoyancy's sake, which is easy to deal with and does not even have to come from the body of the sub itself.
@@maudessen573 Spot On-- Rush was like Elizabeth Holmes-- Smart, but with an ego and ambition well beyond IQ-- Not smart enough to know that they were not smart enough. Also, both could be labeled as sociopathic because of their complete lack of concern for the safety of others. Unconscionable level of hubris.
A loud bang on hydrophones + loss of comms is a pretty bad sign, but doesn't prove conclusively that they imploded. From the PoV of the search team, if that scenario happened, then the crew were dead. In that case, they didn't need to confirm that fact quickly. But at that time, it was still possible that the sub had lost power but successfully executed an emergency ascent. In that case, they would have been floating on the surface, unable to open the hatch to get access to air (plus that would have caused them to sink anyway). That scenario was the only one possible where the crew might have survived in the end. So it made sense to focus on that until time ran out for the air supply.
yeah but they also definitely heard the bang. unfortunately they were probably in denial about what the sound was. but they used sonar technologies to communicate, there's no way they didn't hear a loud noise at the same time
They had the comms but also the transponder which failed at the same time of comms so they knew even without the sound that it imploded. Losing comms was pretty common with Titan.
I heard it just took that much time to even get underwater search vehicles out to the wreck site to look for debris and confirm it really imploded.
..
P😊😊😊😊😊
@@nafmtigia The point still is to focus on hoping to save life instead spending time looking for dead bodies. Are you actually calling that "denial"? That's "triage".
Belated thanks, you've earned a subscriber! Very clear and respectful explanation, without gore and sensational headings. I followed the search for the Titan live on WFLA (I'm not even from the US) and I watched the final announcement by the Coast Guard. I was thinking, "I may throw up, but this is history". I feel the same now that they are beginning to study the remains of the Titan. I hope you follow up on this story. Meanwhile I'll binge your videos: I'm no architect or engineer, but Chernobyl and Fukushima have become part of our history, not to mention more recent events. Cheers from Europe!
I'm so glad I found your channel. You explain things so eloquently and efficiently, you really have a gift!
The dropping of weights does not necessarily mean that they knew they were in trouble. Stockton mentioned that they usually drop the weights several hundred feet before they reach the bottom of the ocean to avoid the sub hitting the floor at a high speed. This was a way to “slow down” the descent. Only the OceanGate crew will know whether this dropping of weights was typical or atypical. But they’re not saying anything now.
But not a terrible assumption
James Cameron stated he spoke with people in that group of the mothership and said they dropped weights because they knew something was wrong and we’re trying to come up.
They are NOT at several hundred feet before the floor. They were barely there. You do know how deep this was? They hadn’t reached that far.
@@KittenBowl1I read 3500-feet is when they lost contact. Possibly the moment of peril.
@@Seashellsbytheseashore21 Yeah, I heard that the message was that the cabin had been compromised and they were dropping weights. Sounds to me like he sprung a high pressure leak, maybe a small pinhole leak, and the compartment was filling with high pressure water. 2 minutes after this message was when the navy sensors detected an explosion. I think the leak into that sealed compartment blew it up like a balloon until it exploded.
I hope they didn’t have any warning of what was going to happen BUT I saw a video last night from a guy that went down in this submersible on its second dive, he said there were loud noises almost like gunshots going off the deeper they got and it happened during resurfacing also. I truly hope these sounds weren’t significantly worse before the implosion and gave them a chance to get worried about what might be happening. 🙏🏽
as far as I'm aware they did sense danger, according to james cameron they dropped weights.
Hi, can you please link that video?
The last communication they sent was that they dropped their weights and that was before they reached their decent so they knew there was some type of trouble because they were going to attempt to resurface, but not as an expert in the matter but I would guess that they had no clue what was to follow because even the smallest leak would be instant implosion according to tests..
second dive? Titan made quite a few more dives between the second dive and the last one.
@@stackhat8624According to this video Titan made a total of 24 dives but there had been hull replacement in some. This current hull had made about 7 trips before the implosion, about 3 were manned.
Thanks!
Thank you! Much appreciated 😁
That was really good. I loved the way you spoke slowly, and narrated carefully to the clear renderings. Too much of TH-cam is in your face and spoken at us rather than to us.
A search of "Did Titan try to surface? " results in an article (Insider) that notes the ballast had been released prior to implosion ... suggesting the passengers knew something was wrong and prompted them to urgently try to surface. Sadly, the idea that they died in blissful ignorance may not be wholly accurate.
Yeah they likely would hear cracking noises as the hull started caving in, but once it finally did. They died in about 0.01 seconds, or even faster even.
@@FabledGentlemanmy guess is
It takes much longer than .001 seconds to make a thought
@@PInk77W1 Well at least thoughts don't hurt. Might have been scary down there for a few seconds.
@@FabledGentlemanthe Pakistan businessman’s son did not want to go down and only did it for his dad. He would have been terrified the whole time.
Yeah, that's why the engineer Oceangate fired said that Rush's acoustic monitoring system was worthless because by the time it would warn you that something is wrong it was likely too late to save you.
Love your comments towards the end about science and engineering, and how we rely on them without much thought until something goes wrong. I didn't realize they got 24 dives out of it before failure, I was thinking the number was much lower.
It's not clear how many of the Titan dives were partial depth or complete descent and return to the seabed where the Titanic is. Rush was a master at misdirection, What Oceangate called "successful trips" could have been just getting the 8-day package on the Mother ship, with or without a full dive to the wreck site. Or it could have included dives in other locations, with or without passengers. It also could be the media/social media picking up a piece of misinformation and amplifying it to where it becomes 'truth', even though no one has an original source.
We’re they all deep dives to the Titanic, or shallower test dives?
Wow. Every time you showed the model of the implosion I get goosebumps and I jump. It’s so simple but powerful. I pray it was faster than a blink of an eye for those men so they weren’t afraid or didn’t feel anything. Especially that young boy who said he was afraid before he got the submersible. Wow😳
They used Elmers's glue and Super Glue from the Dollar Store.
I've seen better GIJOE toys then that pos.
I was watching a video made about ten years ago about pressure test on carbon fiber cylindrical hulls. When the pressure hull failed it didn't equally crush like the metal ones did, it split length wise and allowed the pressure to equalize. I'm thinking something similar happened but not length wise due to their incorrect way of laying the carbon fiber so the split would have been ring shape. My theory is the carbon fiber started to de-laminate and bow in the middle and the two titanium hemispheres just crushed it inward like stepping on top of a empty soda can. I think along with the microphone to record the cracking of the carbon fiber they did mention they had a string indicator (a string strong across from one side of the sub to the other to monitor how much the vessel is compressing, an old trick from the earlier sub days), so my fear is they started noticing the string drop way more then normal or the cracking was really starting to intensify they then dropped the weights in an attempt to save it but by then it was too late. Fear of this being a moment before the implosion they knew they were probably doomed, also with this many layers of incorrectly layered carbon fiber I wonder if there wasn't a second or two of water making it in by traveling in between all the layers before the implosion. I hope not as this would have been horrifying for them but we just don't currently know for sure as there are no substantial testing of this situation with the method of wrapping carbon fiber as they did. Makes me so mad that this CEO thought it was perfectly fine to take people down there when there were so many experts with decades of experience telling him "Hey, you're going to get some one killed!" He truly thought he knew better then everyone else.
Yes you think of the pressure onto the face of the tube but the force from the domes onto the ends of the tube are huge too. After pressure cycles the composite fatigue must have started becoming a mess.
If there were no carbon fibers, I'd expect the hull to be squished flat at the waist. If there were longitudinal fibers which were parallel to the surface, it wouldn't be able to squish flat at the waist without substantially increasing the length of the longitudinal fibers, but the mechanical advantage would amplify the forces on the fibers enormously. To make a strong structure, the fibers's direction vector would need to have a component parallel to the applied force
Thanks mike, this was a really clear, concise, compassionate and non judgmental explanation of what happened down there by titanic. I’m glad the wreckage still supports a sudden catastrophic disaster and the 5 men wouldn’t have felt much at all, maybe a bit of anxiety at the very end when it started to go wrong. Have they released any footage from the 2 debris fields or do u think they’ll not share that info yet or at all? Did titan have a type of black box and if yes has it been recovered yet? Thx again
When you're dealing with extreme conditions like the deep ocean, you NEVER cut corners. If you want to innovate (which I'm all for), get your invention tested and certified. Never assume it will be fine.
Great job Mike
Hey Daniel 😃👋🏻
Nice to see you in my comments!
After inspecting the titans stress tests in 2014 i had to walk off. Its amazing how no one went through with putting an end to this. I guess im included in it but we need more regulation
Or just more whistleblowers.
"we need more regulation"
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Oh horror of horrors. Don't you know that more (government?) regulation would be catastrophic to human invention and evolution? Capitalists and entrepreneurs are way too superior to be hindered or restricted by such ponderous procedures.
Thanks for the new episode! I have been wondering about how this event happened.
I really like your use of your own animations, nicely done
Thank you very much!