Lactate testing has been around for a long time. In the 80's the machine I used when I was getting my masters was about the size of a shoe box and you had to do a lot more to calibrate and prepare for a test than testing now. The biggest difference is back in the 80's you could test and get the numbers but little was known about what to do with the numbers when you got them. With the new cheaper analysis and some great trial and error by athletes and coaches (mostly but not all Norwegian), the understanding of what to do with the numbers now is so much greater than back then. In the 80's it was more research lab-based testing. Now more practical learning how to apply testing to a training program.
Finally got around to watching this :) Well done! I appreciate knowing more about lactate testing. Absolutely stoked that you guys are into proper science. Thank you!
2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6
Interesting subject matter, thanks Sage. Wish you the very best at USATF!
I've been using that same lactate reader for a number of months now. I also find that sweat causes high readings. I clean with alcohol first and then use the lancet - clean away the first drop and use the second drop. With that protocol, it appears that the readings make a lot more sense. The other important tip is to be sure to completely fill the sample window. If it's not completely full, the numbers always appear wonky. Great video 🤙
That's it! For sure an easy fix. I also had people on Strava telling me to be careful not to let the drop of blood "run down your finger/skin" and try to squeeze it directly into the testing strip. Very consistent now.
Try with a Nova meter. I own both, had to switch to Nova because of errant readings and wasted strips. The Nova sucks up the sample by spearing the droplet, instead of shoveling it in with sweat and contaminating the sample.
Dang it. I had to delete my comment, where I was saying pretty much what you realized at the end of the video. The readings out on the track seemed like pure science fiction.
while they were quite high values (given my relative effort and HR), they did correlate pretty well with the graph and expontential spike around what I'd imagine my LT pace actually is (so it's like the sweat or whatever made them all pretty consistently high). This was confirmed in the second test (the same pace around LT), but all the values were consistently lower...still showed the same kind of spike just shifted down on the graph
@@Vo2maxProductions Yeah. That's what I would've thought happened as well. I have seen Lionel Sanders using a lactate meter a lot, and he draws his blood from the ear. I think he said something about that giving better readings than blood from the finger. I not sure exactly why that's the case though. Maybe something to look into if you're gonna use this thing a lot.
Hey interesting to see. I’ve seen some other athletes do this and they use their ear lobe for the reading rather than finger. I wonder if that makes a difference
I just ran a 2:59 marathon. I want to get faster. I am thinking if getting one of your plans. Which do you recommend. In my last training block I was averaging 90K a week, peaking at 105K.
Hey Sage. Taking blood samples seems to have a learning curve. 😀one question: How often do you plan on taking lactate samples in your upcoming training? Every day, 1-2 a week, few times in a month, or just some key workouts where you adjust your LT paces? Hope you can take the time to answer. Appreciate it.
Probably a few times a month (the testing strips are not cheap!)....and more so for my Boston Marathon specific road training as I'll be doing more intense sessions (compared to training for this 24 hour ultra!). Another testing protocol would be to run repeats at the same pace and monitor lactate values to see if they progress or hold more steady during the workout (to keep things in check, but also to see if fitness is progressing). I can design workouts now with better confience that my other metrics like pace and HR are matching true LT2...at least for the next 2-3 weeks at a time!
Pretty sure I saw a local high school (private school) doing this for some of their athletes one evening on the track. Pretty crazy to see it being done on the outer lane on the curve of a poorly lit track, and on such young athletes. I hope they were washing their hands etc
I've seen a lot of videos with college and pro teams doing lactate testing. Honestly it's a lot easier to have another person helping you with the samples (i.e. getting the strips and lancet ready faster with less change of sweat contamination). But yeah, certain hygiene /safety measures and liability should be taken when testing others...especially in groups. I'd honestly wear a fresh pair of gloves and get those alcohol swaps wiping things down every prick if i was testing another person/athlete.
Those lactate numbers don't seem very accurate (very high for the effort). On average I would expect aerobic threshold in the 1.5 to 2.5 range. Lactate threshold in the 2.5 to 4.0 mmol range. Vo2 max in the 4 to 8 range and possible 12 to 20 numbers after a max 400 meter. I use the lactate plus monitor for coaching and not familiar with the monitor you were using in the video. Good choice of protocol I often do something similar and see the lactate go exponential usually around 4 mmol with most athletes.
I agree, 1.8mmol at rest also seems very high. I wonder if he had to calibrate the meter with lactate solution like you do with the lactate plus monitor?
@@JohnC171 I did not calibrate, but will look to do that as they do have a solution. Based on my hospital testing over the last year I tend to run high lactate values at rest compared to the normal person I think (which I know is not healthy or good). I'm not sure if it's from damage in my lungs from my pulmonary embolism or just crappy genetics. But to Gary's point: I don't think everyone falls in those ranges of mmol values necessarily for LT1 to LT2 to Vo2max to Anaerobic Capacity etc . I feel like I can go "quite anaerobic" at Vo2max pace/intensity for example and suffer at it for a relatively long time. In my hospital test I hit over 16mmol/L before my HR even got up to 95% of Max. I was suffering...but I could have suffered a lot more!
@@Vo2maxProductions Interesting, perhaps its diet driven or maybe you just run off carbs preferentially. I doubt everyone falls into neat boxes with most things, I wonder how established in evidence the lactate ranges were decided, especially for more elite athletes.
@@JohnC171 I used Lactate testing as part of my Master's thesis way back in the late 1980's so my memory isn't great on the old research or anything new. At that time there was a lot of debate on individual thresholds or using 4 mmol as a standard. I believe individual thresholds can range from 2 to 7 with athletes having more lower lactate thresholds where higher fast twitch athletes producing more lactate. I know most Endurance athletes fall in the 3 to 4 threshold range but there is definately some individuality in it. Newer portable meters are so much easier to use that the expensive lab based machines used in the 1980's.
@@garypallett3097interesting! this was all pretty new and cutting edge in the early 1980s then, right? If you look at the results of my second (Treadmill test) the lactate was pretty controlled under 4mmol/L (3.1mmol actually) right at 6:00min per mile pace (my third data point), and then it really spiked up to 4.7mmol on the 4th rep going to 5:50min/mile pace. So not super high over 4mmol. I could probably do some longer reps and more testing in the future to see if I can dial in these numbers better for a more consistent picture and control the efforts a bit more evenly.
Lactate testing has been around for a long time. In the 80's the machine I used when I was getting my masters was about the size of a shoe box and you had to do a lot more to calibrate and prepare for a test than testing now. The biggest difference is back in the 80's you could test and get the numbers but little was known about what to do with the numbers when you got them.
With the new cheaper analysis and some great trial and error by athletes and coaches (mostly but not all Norwegian), the understanding of what to do with the numbers now is so much greater than back then. In the 80's it was more research lab-based testing. Now more practical learning how to apply testing to a training program.
Finally got around to watching this :) Well done! I appreciate knowing more about lactate testing. Absolutely stoked that you guys are into proper science. Thank you!
Interesting subject matter, thanks Sage. Wish you the very best at USATF!
thank you!
Very good video Sage.
I've been using that same lactate reader for a number of months now. I also find that sweat causes high readings. I clean with alcohol first and then use the lancet - clean away the first drop and use the second drop. With that protocol, it appears that the readings make a lot more sense.
The other important tip is to be sure to completely fill the sample window. If it's not completely full, the numbers always appear wonky.
Great video 🤙
That's it! For sure an easy fix. I also had people on Strava telling me to be careful not to let the drop of blood "run down your finger/skin" and try to squeeze it directly into the testing strip. Very consistent now.
Try with a Nova meter. I own both, had to switch to Nova because of errant readings and wasted strips. The Nova sucks up the sample by spearing the droplet, instead of shoveling it in with sweat and contaminating the sample.
Great video sage
I got 32 Vo2 max age 77y plus, hoping to improve
on the treadmill the data is steady that’s good
Dang it. I had to delete my comment, where I was saying pretty much what you realized at the end of the video. The readings out on the track seemed like pure science fiction.
while they were quite high values (given my relative effort and HR), they did correlate pretty well with the graph and expontential spike around what I'd imagine my LT pace actually is (so it's like the sweat or whatever made them all pretty consistently high). This was confirmed in the second test (the same pace around LT), but all the values were consistently lower...still showed the same kind of spike just shifted down on the graph
@@Vo2maxProductions Yeah. That's what I would've thought happened as well. I have seen Lionel Sanders using a lactate meter a lot, and he draws his blood from the ear. I think he said something about that giving better readings than blood from the finger. I not sure exactly why that's the case though. Maybe something to look into if you're gonna use this thing a lot.
Hey interesting to see. I’ve seen some other athletes do this and they use their ear lobe for the reading rather than finger. I wonder if that makes a difference
yeah ear lobe is hard to do by yourself though! Should be less sweat up there is that's always good.
I just ran a 2:59 marathon. I want to get faster. I am thinking if getting one of your plans. Which do you recommend. In my last training block I was averaging 90K a week, peaking at 105K.
congrats! I'd recommend the Higher Running BQ Marathon Training Plan (it has taken a lot of people into the low 2:50s and sub 2:50 even)
@@Vo2maxProductions Thanks Sage. That seems like the plan for me! Keep up the good work on the channel 💪
Hey Sage. Taking blood samples seems to have a learning curve. 😀one question: How often do you plan on taking lactate samples in your upcoming training? Every day, 1-2 a week, few times in a month, or just some key workouts where you adjust your LT paces? Hope you can take the time to answer. Appreciate it.
Probably a few times a month (the testing strips are not cheap!)....and more so for my Boston Marathon specific road training as I'll be doing more intense sessions (compared to training for this 24 hour ultra!). Another testing protocol would be to run repeats at the same pace and monitor lactate values to see if they progress or hold more steady during the workout (to keep things in check, but also to see if fitness is progressing). I can design workouts now with better confience that my other metrics like pace and HR are matching true LT2...at least for the next 2-3 weeks at a time!
Pretty sure I saw a local high school (private school) doing this for some of their athletes one evening on the track. Pretty crazy to see it being done on the outer lane on the curve of a poorly lit track, and on such young athletes. I hope they were washing their hands etc
I've seen a lot of videos with college and pro teams doing lactate testing. Honestly it's a lot easier to have another person helping you with the samples (i.e. getting the strips and lancet ready faster with less change of sweat contamination). But yeah, certain hygiene /safety measures and liability should be taken when testing others...especially in groups. I'd honestly wear a fresh pair of gloves and get those alcohol swaps wiping things down every prick if i was testing another person/athlete.
20 beers😅
Hi sage
❤
Those lactate numbers don't seem very accurate (very high for the effort). On average I would expect aerobic threshold in the 1.5 to 2.5 range. Lactate threshold in the 2.5 to 4.0 mmol range. Vo2 max in the 4 to 8 range and possible 12 to 20 numbers after a max 400 meter. I use the lactate plus monitor for coaching and not familiar with the monitor you were using in the video. Good choice of protocol I often do something similar and see the lactate go exponential usually around 4 mmol with most athletes.
I agree, 1.8mmol at rest also seems very high. I wonder if he had to calibrate the meter with lactate solution like you do with the lactate plus monitor?
@@JohnC171 I did not calibrate, but will look to do that as they do have a solution. Based on my hospital testing over the last year I tend to run high lactate values at rest compared to the normal person I think (which I know is not healthy or good). I'm not sure if it's from damage in my lungs from my pulmonary embolism or just crappy genetics. But to Gary's point: I don't think everyone falls in those ranges of mmol values necessarily for LT1 to LT2 to Vo2max to Anaerobic Capacity etc . I feel like I can go "quite anaerobic" at Vo2max pace/intensity for example and suffer at it for a relatively long time. In my hospital test I hit over 16mmol/L before my HR even got up to 95% of Max. I was suffering...but I could have suffered a lot more!
@@Vo2maxProductions Interesting, perhaps its diet driven or maybe you just run off carbs preferentially. I doubt everyone falls into neat boxes with most things, I wonder how established in evidence the lactate ranges were decided, especially for more elite athletes.
@@JohnC171 I used Lactate testing as part of my Master's thesis way back in the late 1980's so my memory isn't great on the old research or anything new. At that time there was a lot of debate on individual thresholds or using 4 mmol as a standard. I believe individual thresholds can range from 2 to 7 with athletes having more lower lactate thresholds where higher fast twitch athletes producing more lactate. I know most Endurance athletes fall in the 3 to 4 threshold range but there is definately some individuality in it. Newer portable meters are so much easier to use that the expensive lab based machines used in the 1980's.
@@garypallett3097interesting! this was all pretty new and cutting edge in the early 1980s then, right? If you look at the results of my second (Treadmill test) the lactate was pretty controlled under 4mmol/L (3.1mmol actually) right at 6:00min per mile pace (my third data point), and then it really spiked up to 4.7mmol on the 4th rep going to 5:50min/mile pace. So not super high over 4mmol. I could probably do some longer reps and more testing in the future to see if I can dial in these numbers better for a more consistent picture and control the efforts a bit more evenly.