Sylvia Plath was supposed to show "more understanding" to her husband having an affair without any intention of ending it? What kind of fools are commenting on this program.
Thank you so much. Hughes never changed either. He was never monogamous. I bet he secretly enjoyed his reputation as a charismatic , "dangerous" womaniser too and used it to hook up with other women.
Like Oliver Reed who moved the air it's on his tombstone it would be naive to think that when you have a man like Ted Hughes like this in your life you have a tiger by the tail.
he was indeed haunted by Sylvia's death and wrote a huge amount of poems about her; that's good. she was such a wonderful person, deserved so much more and better from life. she would have loved to know that her work got the recognition she so much desired, and bet she wouldnt have imagined it would still be studied and admired in the twenty-first century. your legacy remains, dear Sylvy.
All tragic,Sylvia, Alyssa Weevil, Nicholas Plath , her son, all suicides, and Alyssa killed her child along with her. Ghastly. Mr. Hughes has something to answer for in his treatment of women
I have to take issue with your assessment; Plath was a borderline personality grandiose narcissist; supremely talented, perhaps a genius, but completely unhinged. For me, she was ancient mythopeoic force, like a Fate or a Sibyl, but never in a million years a wonderful person, quite the opposite; she attacked everyone around her, her father, her mother, Ted Hughes her husband, her in-laws, and almost certainly her infant two children in her diaries which Hughes chose to destory in order to preserve the integrity of her literary talent. Nothing and no-one was ever good enough for her. For me, she resembles Arthur Schopenhauer, the nineteenth century Germany philosopher, and Francis Bacon, the twentieth century English painter, (not the seventeenth century essayist and thinker); all three were sociopaths. I revere and admire the achievement of Plath's poetry, but in respect of personality style, I am sorry, you just have it all wrong.
@@supergrahamg I understand, I have dived deeper into these aspects of her personality and indeed she wasn't easy to deal with. but that's due to her mental health. she was very troubled and not properly medicated, so i personally wouldn't blame her for being the way she was. of course being mentally ill is not a justification for being a horrible person, but i understand it is not easy. i myself have issues and i can't imagine who i would be without my meds. i still admire Sylvia, though, maybe because i see something of myself in her. i understand why you hold such view, but i still choose to admire her talent nonetheless.
@@supergrahamg Just finished the recent bio on her, and it mostly confirms what you say, she was quite disturbed all her life. I could never grasp the hatred she had for her mother either, based on what I'd read.
In fact I think Burton's voice, and possibly himself, is in the ad for Sea Witch hair dye that Assia wrote, a short clip of which is in this programme. Yes, Frieda is lovely in these interviews, I'd like to hug her too.
I admit, as a sympathetic Plath admirer I dismissed Hughes until seeing this film. In his own right and on his own terms he was superbly talented and deserving of the credit he received. No one knows all of what occurred in that marriage but those two people; irregardless, whatever may or may not have happened it does not take away his God-given talent.
Me too … that said he beat her and she miscarried her first child. I wouldn’t ever say “What people don’t understand, he was NICE TO HER” lol. That said, I’m starting to get closer to his work … close enough to read at least. 🥰
Sad to have learned that two people featured in this documentary, the poets Elaine Feinstein and Al Alvarez, both died on the same day, 23rd September 2019.
I love the Jonathan Bate biography, dark and detailed, Teds poems do something strange to me, breathing again, or moreover coming up for air from, not a darkened world to the light but the actual world from who knows where? I read the Times when it was out Daffodils is sublime !
So have I - wrote to the Ted Hughes society a year or two ago and they told me it was only available for study on special permission. Such a joy to see it come up, not just a clip!
@@kristofthibaud8491 It could be argued that Ted Hughes turned Sylvia into the poet she became. Without his influence she wouldn't have written much of her greatest work. And I honestly believe that Plath would have killed herself regardless of meeting Hughes. She'd attempted it several times throughout her life beforehand.
Ted Hughes himself acknowledged that he would be be unknown off fishing somewhere in Australia and not a poet laureate If not for Sylvia pushing him so hard. I have to agree with him.
And yes she had attempted suicide but hadn't followed through. That could have been the case here too if Ted wasn't such a callous man while he cheated and toyed with her emotions.
@@belladonna5904 Wrong. She attempted suicide and was saved because she took too many pills and vomited them up. It wasn't a case of she backed out at the last minute. She suffered from severe mental illness and would have been very difficult to live with. She completely destroyed his work on a number of occasions. Hughes isn't conventionally blameless but he also isn't ultimately responsible. I do agree with you though that she helped him as much as he helped her in finding their voices and developing their talent.
*I think of poems as a sort of animal; they have their own life, like animals; by which I mean that they seem quite separate from any person, even from their author. And nothing can be added to them, or taken away, without maiming and perhaps even killing them.* Vintage Ted Hughes.
How things happen. Sylvia Plath's"Unabridged Journals" bought on impulse in an antique shop. Random reading in the car. No, too heavy. Put in give-away pile. Pluck it back weeks later. Open at random to the page of her first meeting with Hughes. The headband was red, she writes; not blue, as he wrote - poet's license! It's Saturday morning in the California desert, cold wind. I read and read and now it's too late to turn back. Discover "Stronger than Death." The very manna I seek and rarely find. Such gratitude for this, thank you from the depths. The depths... shadows of death, where ever fewer visit by intent and are doomed instead to live it. This man and this woman were equals, and they were the product of their times. Neither fully aware that, bound as we may be to one another, we are solely responsible for our lives and our emotional states. Neither fully aware that the edicts of love are made up by the culture, against which creativity and co-dependency will will kick and suffer. Blame is as ignorant and hideous as the accusatory poem shot at Ted Hughes - hearing it wrenched me, that my sisters should hate a man so. Always three fingers pointing back to the accuser, it's the higher law. I am a conscious woman who would be a masculinist as well as a feminist in truer terms. Both Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes were tremendous souls who gave their lives to poetry because they could not be otherwise, and in doing so, to the culture and to the world. Big souls are never victims.
Ted Hughes might have suffered a poorer biographer than Jonathan Bate, but I hope that he'll enjoy a better one in future. And as for Ms. Robin Morgan, her dross will justly dissolve in oblivion, while the poetry of Hughes will, rightly, live on.
Absolutely - pure hatred without any semblance of understanding. Just listen to Frieda talking about her father - if anyone knows the truth of the man, she does. if you doubt that - just watch the last few seconds of this documentary. Morgan will be unknown in a few years. The best possible epitaph for her will be 'Who?'
@@HaFannyHa Can you recommend a typical piece of writing by her? I found her bile-spitting misandry so full of personal prejudice that I never thought to see what she considers to be poetry. Can you suggest something?
@@alansturgess1324 You have explained the problem with Morgan perfectly! I wouldn't direct anyone to read her 'work'. I'm sure you can find examples through Google, including 'Arraignment', her attack on Hughes. My god, she had no heart. She would've hurt Frieda and Nick, Aurelia and Warren Plath and others in their families, as well as Ted Hughes. The 'Monster' collection wasn't published in Britain, but I still think Hughes should've sued her for defamation. No, I don't recommend Morgan at all.
For anyone wondering about other music in the video: 1:14:10 is 'Said and Done,' by Nils Frahm, from his album, 'The Bells'. 1:26:55 is 'Last Night the Moon Came', by Jon Hassell from his album, 'Last night the moon came dropping its clothes in the street'.
Two poets - one parent! Sylvias life changed when the children were born - his didn’t ............... has anything changed today? I hope so 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽RIP ladies
It was still horrific and morally wrong. That's like saying well he's into 12 year girls but hey its a mental illness, so lets be a pluralistic retard about it. Liberal drivel. It was wrong whatever way you look at it.
Framing a marriage and artistic partnership in terms team him/her is unhelpful. They were both complicated and flawed individuals who had their equal share of frailties and made mistakes. The only person who could have saved Sylvia was herself.
@@kurisensei I'm not saying the things they said were necessarily incorrect, but it feels as if Hughes' treatment of Plath is almost justified by the creators of this documentary. Just my own opinion, but I feel Hughes' deplorable treatment of Plath (infidelity, lies, physical abuse) is not shown in the most faithful light in this doc, and Hughes is almost let off the hook by the makers when it came to taking responsibility for this. I understand its a documentary about Hughes' life, but I feel there is a strong bias towards showing Hughes' positive attributes instead of his negative ones.
Ted Hughes reading is almost perfect. Dramatic but not overdone. They were so talented, so good for each other. Sad that their fate was to bump into a sociopath and a murderer in the guise of a beautiful woman. Assia was truly evil.
People should read his "The Dogs Are Eating Your Mother", in Birthday Letters, in which he likens his feminist critics to "hyenas" fattening on Sylvia's corpse. A brilliant and very to-the-point demolition job.
The documentary didn't need so much doomful music and dramatic imagery. The poems and the contributor's voices, including Hughes, would suffice. Thought the sounds and imagery were too imposing, quite ad odds with the restrained, austere energy of Hughes's poetry.
Excellent documentary. The music has the perfect pitch. Hughes was an extraordinary poet and Path a fine one. Their respective work and the integrity of their daughter, is a tribute to the both of them. The suicides... only the word, tragedy, is appropriate. PS Morgan is appalling.
A beautiful and moving "summary" of Hugh's life. However, there is no mention of Nicolas, his and Sylvia's second child, after his babyhood. He became a biologist, I think, and committed suicide in Alaska. Why leave out this man, Sylvia and Ted's second, in whom the legacy of depression and suicide continued? Another tragedy for Hughes, and his daughter.
web.archive.org/web/20090326004525/newsminer.com/news/2009/mar/23/nicholas-hughes-son-major-poets-emerged-prominent-/ He didn't think it was a good idea to have his life and family connections written about. He deserved his privacy.
Because it's irrelevant (N. passed away long after his parents) and seeing as he was an extremely private man I've no doubt his sister would have insisted the programme makers respect that and exempt him from discussion.
Because this isn't a documentary about the Hughes family. It's about Ted's life - Frieda is only there to tell what she knew about him in life. Nicholas, tragically, is not. But to include him, in my mind, would seem somewhat ghoulish, as it isn't relevant to the subject: Ted and poetry.
@Nicole V We don’t know that they were burned; Hughes said the journals “disappeared, and may turn up.” So that dangles a carrot: perhaps the journals are hidden among his papers at Emory for later release?
I think the closest we will ever get to knowing the contents of Plath’s last journal are the explosive letters she sent to Ruth Beutscher that Hughes had no control over and which turned up out of the blue and which were included in the second volume of Plath’s collected letters. Apparently Hughes told Plath that their children should never have been born, and I think this is what Hughes didn’t want his children to read in case it damaged his relationship with them.
@@Mark-Smeaton I heard Assia thought her daughter would be treated by people as second class child of Ted Hughes but I don't think that's an excuse. If she wanted her child to be well, then give her for adoption to any good relative or friend she had, shouldn't she? I think this is where the depth of the wisdom of both women had differs from one another. I guess Plath being a poet who used her feelings herself could feel pain so her level of wisdom is deep, while Assia was good in her creative side like an advertisement she designed gained success didn't really have that level of deep thinking.
@@missplumtree958 It's so sad in both cases - but as you say, there is a huge difference which speaks volumes about both women. For example, there is an unsent letter by Ted Hughes somewhere in his archive (apologies that I don't have the citation handy but I swear I have read this). I think it was to Jacqueline Rose and it was about Plath's journal - the one he infamously burnt because he claimed it would hurt her children. Hughes wrote that the only thing that Sylvia wrote that would have hurt her children was ONE sentence, on the very last page. He did not elaborate but in conjunction with her last poem, "Edge", I suspect that she wrote something to the effect that she was going to kill her children also - or maybe she just contemplated it or alluded to it. However (thank God), when push came to shove, Plath went to painstaking lengths to ensure the safety of her children. She didn't just stop at taping their door but also used towels and clothes, leaving their window open. Her body was still warm too, indicating she hadn't died until about 6AM - probably because she knew a nurse was arriving at 8AM. It was, I think, very carefully timed. Knowing as much as I do about suicide (my own mother took her life), these were quite impressive acts of maternal love because most people who kill themselves are in such profound states of apathy and ambivalence. I'm not sure that many people would go to that much effort. As for Assia, she asked both her sister and the novelist Fay Weldon to take care of Shura if anything happened to her but I don't think Assia liked other women much. I seem to remember she wrote "I couldn't stand some bloody woman" raising Shura. Coupled with that, Hughes apparently treated Shura very indifferently compared to Frieda and Nicholas (especially Frieda, who felt the need to write an article asserting that Shura was not even Hughes' daughter a few years ago). Maybe Assia thought Shura would be better off dead too but I don't know. Killing a child is a very difficult thing to see as an act of benevolence. I did feel pity for Assia after reading that biography of her published some years ago but I also read a study of parents who kill their children as well as themselves - the author argues that contrary to popular belief, parents usually DON'T kill children as a delusional act of mercy. It's a retaliatory act of vengeance - don't ask me how the author arrived at this conclusion but it was by a supposed expert in the field. Horrific subject, either way!
@@Mark-Smeaton what does bloody mean in Assia's sentence? Did she mean both women are bad people or something similar? Or rather she doesn't want any woman good or bad to take care of Shura? I had suicidal thoughts too when I was a teenager but k i ll ing others along with my suicide never occurred to me.
@@missplumtree958 @Miss Plumtree "Some bloody woman" in that sentence simply means , "Some f*cking stupid/annoying woman". Bloody was a very old school British/Australian word. Assia didn't seem to be referring to any woman in particular. Secondly, sorry for writing such insanely long, rambling posts. I'm recovering from numerous injuries atm and forced to spend a lot of time in bed. I have way too much time on my hands. lol
The irony of him being more well-known while Sylvia was alive is that she is more famous now. I am a layperson who enjoys poetry but never really read or studied it after I completed high school. However, I already knew the name Sylvia Plath, although I am not American and we studied the old poets: Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Donne, Keats, Yeats etc. and no American poets. So it was only recently when I read The Bell Jar and became interested in her life, that I heard of Ted Hughes. I am sure if you ask any person off the street if they have heard of Sylvia Plath, they will say yes. But ask them if they have heard of Ted Hughes...I am not so sure. Nevertheless, I am happy to have discovered Ted and his poetry, but Sylvia is definitely my favourite poet. In the video, Feinstein doesn't seem convinced of Sylvia's talent or posthumous fame, or Ted and Assia's role in her suicide etc., but clearly lights up when talking about Ted, Lol, I suppose there will always be two camps.
There does not need to be two camps; I see the merit in both oeuvres; Plath appeals to me more because she was troubled, something Greek, sybylline, about her. And you cannot argue with the authenticity of that, because of the suicide. But give poor Ted a break; from the getgo, he was in over his head. Pathology will always have its day......
The opening music is called "Erosion of Mediocrity" by Manchester duo "Demdike Stare". I have finally discovered all the various titles featured on the soundtrack to this film so let me know if i can help any further (i've made a playlist on spotify).
interesting how they both used each other to reach their ambition: to become poets. and of course becoming a poet means becoming an archetype, to transcend being a person, to belong to people as a collective idea, a collective image. but when the collective themselves take control of the creation of the myth and turn him into "evil husband", they don't like it. lol his daugthter even seems hurt and offended by it: 01:06:09 she clearly didn't understand that the problem in that moment was that the power of myth making was taken from ted hughes hands by the very collective he was inscribing himself in. as for him, with all that interest in magic, anthropology and myth he understood it very well ...... just probably didn't like the feeling of losing power over the narrative. truth is if you're trying to become an archetype and you succeed there is no switch. you can't just shut off being an archeype to become a person again when it interests you.
Something extremely Pagan about Teds work. I've read a lot of occult writings and traditionalist writing, people like Evola and Jung. He must of been influenced by that stuff because it seems a constant theme throughout his writings. An ultra paganist feel about it. Very English. He's like a English Mystic the same way Yeats was an Irish Mystic.
yes, quite possibly; however, shame about the Shakespeare motherlode obsession, akin to Yeats' pre-occupation with the occult. I believe half a dozen of Hughes' poems are remarkable, will stand the test of time. I salute you, Ted, valediction inscribed in granite gold leaf, on Dartmoor....a fitting epitaph in my opinion
Actually, Frieda is a very good poet (try her collections '45' or 'Stonepicker'). She has suffered from the expectation hoisted on her simply because of who her parents were. I have such respect for Frieda.
Ted Hughe's name should be stricken from any documentaries, stories or anything remotely connected to Sylvia Plath, he was a vile man only concerned with himself and his image, he digusts me totally.
Let's not hide truth As husband he was lousy constant affairs Cannot leave out two women's suicides and sons suicide very sad When young very handsome narc women drawn to
When you dabble with the devil. He takes revenge. So Sylvia killed herself. Assia killed herself along with Ted's 4 year old daughter. Hughes son killed himself.
I agree. I also think it's somewhat shocking he invited her to sleep in his bed (presumably alone and just for rest, but still...not very professional?)
An okay poet and horrid person. No way to explain away his repeated wretched deeds. Sylvia on the other hand was a terrible loss, don't think she would have left a wake of death and destroyed lives alas. She is missed
Ted Hughes is one of the finest and influential poets in the English language . Sylvia was a brilliant but complicated and damaged woman who latterly became impossible to live with. Reducing her to mere victim at the hands of her husband and his partner insults her agency as both artist and woman. She would despise you for thinking so.
Hughes was a far superior poet to Plath. And seeing their daughter, I'm glad Hughes remained strong and raised her well, not abandoning her like her mother did.
You speak of Feminism, and yet fail to attribute the choice and responsibility of these women to themselves. There are some types of women who seek out polarizing and interesting, and learned, men like Ted Hughes. Most of these women are intellectuals and knew exactly what they were doing.
PoppyB2011 They continued to seek him out, successfully, long after his marriage to a woman who was not an intellectual. Mr Hughes surely had some volition.
Your level of intellect doesn't correlate with your mental health. Sylvia and Assia were both brilliant women but their downfall was the times they were living in.. In the 1950s, ignorance about mental health meant that there was extreme stigma and fear surrounding it. People with mental health problems were considered 'lunatics' and 'defective' and were sent off to asylums. 'Insanity' was thought to be incurable and there was no incentive to treat it. I mean, Sylvia was forced to take electric shock therapy for her depression! The 50s were tough on women and the mentally ill.
1:06:50 A pattern emerges in the late 60s "Ariel" inspired feminist movement. Robin Morgan, Gloria Steinem, Jacqueline Rose, Sandra Gilbert et all ( curiously all Jewish critics ) round on Hughes and men in authority. These self elected activists made the Plath-Hughes story their own into order to strike a political cudgel at Hughes and the " patriarchy" . Sitting in their Long Island homes today butter would not melt in their mouths. They were " thieves" of other peoples misfortunes.
It’s shameless on the one hand how they play up the animal imagery of him - and hypocritically try to play it down with the other, and all along some of these people seem to be in a semi state of masturbatory excitement. While Mr Armitage appears to be half asleep almost unable to say what he really feels? I get the feeling from watching this well dressed lurid titillation that Ted Hughes would somehow be embarrassed at worst or simply laugh it off as light entertainment for those who know nothing of the poet or his poetry.
Cancelling? Evil? Don't be ludicrous. What a bland, sanitised, stagnant world you would want to live in. Besides, some of the worst works of art ever created has been made by very nice people.
Most poets are narcissistic con artists, in my opinion. They use words to aggrandise themselves. The words have to sound as impressive as possible. Having watched this, i would put Hughes and Plath in that category.
He was a good poet, but Plath achieved, by her own unique merits (far above and beyond Hughes' boring and presumptuous male poetry), a worldwide status that he could only have dreamt about. Clearly a womanizer, an immature, an overpraised white straight male. Of course, he won the Pulitzer (Snodgrass, Lowell, Berryman... Sexton - all these confessional ports did it too) - but that is too little for the (extremely) high account in which he had himself. RIP.
Sylvia Plath was supposed to show "more understanding" to her husband having an affair without any intention of ending it? What kind of fools are commenting on this program.
So true
Foolish thoughts
Narcissists!
Thank you so much. Hughes never changed either. He was never monogamous. I bet he secretly enjoyed his reputation as a charismatic , "dangerous" womaniser too and used it to hook up with other women.
Like Oliver Reed who moved the air it's on his tombstone it would be naive to think that when you have a man like Ted Hughes like this in your life you have a tiger by the tail.
he was indeed haunted by Sylvia's death and wrote a huge amount of poems about her; that's good. she was such a wonderful person, deserved so much more and better from life. she would have loved to know that her work got the recognition she so much desired, and bet she wouldnt have imagined it would still be studied and admired in the twenty-first century. your legacy remains, dear Sylvy.
Thank you for this. What a lovely comment to leave on this video!
All tragic,Sylvia, Alyssa Weevil, Nicholas Plath , her son, all suicides, and Alyssa killed her child along with her. Ghastly. Mr. Hughes has something to answer for in his treatment of women
I have to take issue with your assessment; Plath was a borderline personality grandiose narcissist; supremely talented, perhaps a genius, but completely unhinged. For me, she was ancient mythopeoic force, like a Fate or a Sibyl, but never in a million years a wonderful person, quite the opposite; she attacked everyone around her, her father, her mother, Ted Hughes her husband, her in-laws, and almost certainly her infant two children in her diaries which Hughes chose to destory in order to preserve the integrity of her literary talent. Nothing and no-one was ever good enough for her. For me, she resembles Arthur Schopenhauer, the nineteenth century Germany philosopher, and Francis Bacon, the twentieth century English painter, (not the seventeenth century essayist and thinker); all three were sociopaths. I revere and admire the achievement of Plath's poetry, but in respect of personality style, I am sorry, you just have it all wrong.
@@supergrahamg I understand, I have dived deeper into these aspects of her personality and indeed she wasn't easy to deal with. but that's due to her mental health. she was very troubled and not properly medicated, so i personally wouldn't blame her for being the way she was. of course being mentally ill is not a justification for being a horrible person, but i understand it is not easy. i myself have issues and i can't imagine who i would be without my meds. i still admire Sylvia, though, maybe because i see something of myself in her. i understand why you hold such view, but i still choose to admire her talent nonetheless.
@@supergrahamg Just finished the recent bio on her, and it mostly confirms what you say, she was quite disturbed all her life. I could never grasp the hatred she had for her mother either, based on what I'd read.
Whoever chose the music for this documentary is superbly talented. Perfectly captures the mood.
Agreed!
My goodness, Freida sounds just like her mother.
Huh? She sounds completely British, nothing like her mother.
He sounds so much like Richard Burton, its bizarre. Poor Frieda. I just wish I could hug her. That pain it never goes away.
He sounds nothing like Burton. Burton is welsh not Yorkshire
@@mrdarren1045 Timbre of voice, baritone, yes he does sound similar to Burton...LOL..
In fact I think Burton's voice, and possibly himself, is in the ad for Sea Witch hair dye that Assia wrote, a short clip of which is in this programme. Yes, Frieda is lovely in these interviews, I'd like to hug her too.
I admit, as a sympathetic Plath admirer I dismissed Hughes until seeing this film. In his own right and on his own terms he was superbly talented and deserving of the credit he received. No one knows all of what occurred in that marriage but those two people; irregardless, whatever may or may not have happened it does not take away his God-given talent.
Unfortunately, it took away souch more be and had ripple effects
Me too … that said he beat her and she miscarried her first child. I wouldn’t ever say “What people don’t understand, he was NICE TO HER” lol. That said, I’m starting to get closer to his work … close enough to read at least. 🥰
UN-MEASURABLE GRATITUDE FOR THIS VIDEO-THIS IS A GIFT
Ted and Sylvia's daughter is absolutely stunning. Say what you like about their marriage;
they together produced this lovely woman.
Yes, it's as if she unites the best of both her parents in herself.
I was struck by how much her voice is like Sylvia's.
HUH? Frieda is ordinary.
Sad to have learned that two people featured in this documentary, the poets Elaine Feinstein and Al Alvarez, both died on the same day, 23rd September 2019.
Ted would have read alot into that.
Thankyou SO much xxx
Wonderful, thank you for sharing :)
I love the Jonathan Bate biography, dark and detailed, Teds poems do something strange to me, breathing again, or moreover coming up for air from, not a darkened world to the light but the actual world from who knows where? I read the Times when it was out Daffodils is sublime !
Wow...a beautifully made production...very illuminating.
I can't stop re-watching this. It's become a lifeline of inspiration in my own writing. Thank you again for sharing it.
You're very welcome, my friend
Frieda is adorable. I love her story about her parents being on her syllabus for school!
Thank you for uploading this brilliant programme!
Thank you for uploading this. I've been looking for it for years.
Same !
So have I - wrote to the Ted Hughes society a year or two ago and they told me it was only available for study on special permission. Such a joy to see it come up, not just a clip!
Me too.
Thank you so much for uploading this !
You are very welcome!
I’m in heaven with this documentary, to see all the poets I’ve read myself raw with talking.
What a lovely comment! Much appreciated
Reading Ted Hughes changed my life. A poets poet.
changed Sylvia's life arc as well
@@kristofthibaud8491 It could be argued that Ted Hughes turned Sylvia into the poet she became. Without his influence she wouldn't have written much of her greatest work. And I honestly believe that Plath would have killed herself regardless of meeting Hughes. She'd attempted it several times throughout her life beforehand.
Ted Hughes himself acknowledged that he would be be unknown off fishing somewhere in Australia and not a poet laureate If not for Sylvia pushing him so hard. I have to agree with him.
And yes she had attempted suicide but hadn't followed through. That could have been the case here too if Ted wasn't such a callous man while he cheated and toyed with her emotions.
@@belladonna5904 Wrong. She attempted suicide and was saved because she took too many pills and vomited them up. It wasn't a case of she backed out at the last minute. She suffered from severe mental illness and would have been very difficult to live with. She completely destroyed his work on a number of occasions. Hughes isn't conventionally blameless but he also isn't ultimately responsible. I do agree with you though that she helped him as much as he helped her in finding their voices and developing their talent.
Just great!
Thanks 😊
Am I really the only person who has noticed that the dude died the day after Sylvia Plath's birthday?
Birthday letters.
Tim Dowling interesting, wait are you a columnist for the Guardian Weekend Mag or something lol
that is the same day she choose to die
yes
No, I noticed too. October 28 vs October 27, Plath's birthday
*I think of poems as a sort of animal; they have their own life, like animals; by which I mean that they seem quite separate from any person, even from their author. And nothing can be added to them, or taken away, without maiming and perhaps even killing them.* Vintage Ted Hughes.
I am beyond happen this is back, I was so angry it was taken down. Now I can watch it again every single day like I did before
How things happen.
Sylvia Plath's"Unabridged Journals" bought on impulse in an antique shop. Random reading in the car. No, too heavy. Put in give-away pile. Pluck it back weeks later. Open at random to the page of her first meeting with Hughes. The headband was red, she writes; not blue, as he wrote - poet's license! It's Saturday morning in the California desert, cold wind. I read and read and now it's too late to turn back. Discover "Stronger than Death." The very manna I seek and rarely find. Such gratitude for this, thank you from the depths. The depths... shadows of death, where ever fewer visit by intent and are doomed instead to live it.
This man and this woman were equals, and they were the product of their times. Neither fully aware that, bound as we may be to one another, we are solely responsible for our lives and our emotional states. Neither fully aware that the edicts of love are made up by the culture, against which creativity and co-dependency will will kick and suffer. Blame is as ignorant and hideous as the accusatory poem shot at Ted Hughes - hearing it wrenched me, that my sisters should hate a man so. Always three fingers pointing back to the accuser, it's the higher law. I am a conscious woman who would be a masculinist as well as a feminist in truer terms. Both Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes were tremendous souls who gave their lives to poetry because they could not be otherwise, and in doing so, to the culture and to the world. Big souls are never victims.
Ted Hughes might have suffered a poorer biographer than Jonathan Bate, but I hope that he'll enjoy a better one in future. And as for Ms. Robin Morgan, her dross will justly dissolve in oblivion, while the poetry of Hughes will, rightly, live on.
And I concur wholeheartedly ;)
Absolutely - pure hatred without any semblance of understanding. Just listen to Frieda talking about her father - if anyone knows the truth of the man, she does. if you doubt that - just watch the last few seconds of this documentary. Morgan will be unknown in a few years. The best possible epitaph for her will be 'Who?'
@@alansturgess1324 I have actually tried reading Morgan's work. Frankly, she is among the worst poets I've ever read. Yes, she deserves obscurity.
@@HaFannyHa Can you recommend a typical piece of writing by her? I found her bile-spitting misandry so full of personal prejudice that I never thought to see what she considers to be poetry. Can you suggest something?
@@alansturgess1324 You have explained the problem with Morgan perfectly! I wouldn't direct anyone to read her 'work'. I'm sure you can find examples through Google, including 'Arraignment', her attack on Hughes. My god, she had no heart. She would've hurt Frieda and Nick, Aurelia and Warren Plath and others in their families, as well as Ted Hughes. The 'Monster' collection wasn't published in Britain, but I still think Hughes should've sued her for defamation. No, I don't recommend Morgan at all.
For anyone wondering about other music in the video:
1:14:10 is 'Said and Done,' by Nils Frahm, from his album, 'The Bells'.
1:26:55 is 'Last Night the Moon Came', by Jon Hassell from his album, 'Last night the moon came dropping its clothes in the street'.
Thanks. Sadly Hassell passed away a few months ago.
@@jejesus I didn't realise. That's terrible.
Frieda has the most beautiful arms 💪
Two poets - one parent! Sylvias life changed when the children were born - his didn’t ............... has anything changed today? I hope so 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽RIP ladies
Such a great parent she gassed herself in the house with her kids there. Then left them forever. What a mother. Is that called feminism?
@@mrdarren1045 I can't believe this is an actual comment, omg. Imagine being this stupid
@@mrdarren1045 it is called clinical depression. Get educated about mental illness and don't judge
It was still horrific and morally wrong. That's like saying well he's into 12 year girls but hey its a mental illness, so lets be a pluralistic retard about it. Liberal drivel. It was wrong whatever way you look at it.
@@mrdarren1045 Ted Hughes Killed Sylvia Plath
Inspirational
The three hares, chasing one another forever.
Not a massive fan of how they portrayed Plath in this documentary. The makers of this piece are clearly very pro Hughes.
Framing a marriage and artistic partnership in terms team him/her is unhelpful. They were both complicated and flawed individuals who had their equal share of frailties and made mistakes. The only person who could have saved Sylvia was herself.
@@SisterJanet Maybe that's correct, but Hughes' treatment of Plath certainly did not help the situation I'm sure.
What did they get wrong about Plath? Or was it not inaccurate, but only unappealing to you?
@@kurisensei I'm not saying the things they said were necessarily incorrect, but it feels as if Hughes' treatment of Plath is almost justified by the creators of this documentary. Just my own opinion, but I feel Hughes' deplorable treatment of Plath (infidelity, lies, physical abuse) is not shown in the most faithful light in this doc, and Hughes is almost let off the hook by the makers when it came to taking responsibility for this. I understand its a documentary about Hughes' life, but I feel there is a strong bias towards showing Hughes' positive attributes instead of his negative ones.
@@LouisHurler1 the comment saying Path should understand he couldn't end his extra marital affair, that's the most upsetting to me
Ted Hughes reading is almost perfect. Dramatic but not overdone. They were so talented, so good for each other. Sad that their fate was to bump into a sociopath and a murderer in the guise of a beautiful woman. Assia was truly evil.
most fascinating.............
True. Thank you
People should read his "The Dogs Are Eating Your Mother", in Birthday Letters, in which he likens his feminist critics to "hyenas" fattening on Sylvia's corpse. A brilliant and very to-the-point demolition job.
Hughes's voice sounds like it comes out of a horror movie.
The documentary didn't need so much doomful music and dramatic imagery. The poems and the contributor's voices, including Hughes, would suffice. Thought the sounds and imagery were too imposing, quite ad odds with the restrained, austere energy of Hughes's poetry.
I completely agree with that. I found it to be a bit of a nuisance as well.
Excellent documentary. The music has the perfect pitch. Hughes was an extraordinary poet and Path a fine one. Their respective work and the integrity of their daughter, is a tribute to the both of them.
The suicides... only the word, tragedy, is appropriate.
PS Morgan is appalling.
Plath was an extraordinary poet, Hughes a fine one*
A beautiful and moving "summary" of Hugh's life. However, there is no mention of Nicolas, his and Sylvia's second child, after his babyhood. He became a biologist, I think, and committed suicide in Alaska. Why leave out this man, Sylvia and Ted's second, in whom the legacy of depression and suicide continued? Another tragedy for Hughes, and his daughter.
web.archive.org/web/20090326004525/newsminer.com/news/2009/mar/23/nicholas-hughes-son-major-poets-emerged-prominent-/
He didn't think it was a good idea to have his life and family connections written about. He deserved his privacy.
Because it's irrelevant (N. passed away long after his parents) and seeing as he was an extremely private man I've no doubt his sister would have insisted the programme makers respect that and exempt him from discussion.
Because this isn't a documentary about the Hughes family. It's about Ted's life - Frieda is only there to tell what she knew about him in life. Nicholas, tragically, is not. But to include him, in my mind, would seem somewhat ghoulish, as it isn't relevant to the subject: Ted and poetry.
@@happymaskedguy1943 then Sylvia and all other parties should be excluded as well
Did I miss the part where they talk about how he burned Plath’s last journals?
@Nicole V We don’t know that they were burned; Hughes said the journals “disappeared, and may turn up.” So that dangles a carrot: perhaps the journals are hidden among his papers at Emory for later release?
he did it to protect his children; read the poetry for her toxic assessment of motherhood
@@supergrahamg He did it to cover his own abusive ass.
None of our business!
I think the closest we will ever get to knowing the contents of Plath’s last journal are the explosive letters she sent to Ruth Beutscher that Hughes had no control over and which turned up out of the blue and which were included in the second volume of Plath’s collected letters. Apparently Hughes told Plath that their children should never have been born, and I think this is what Hughes didn’t want his children to read in case it damaged his relationship with them.
This was lost (to the public) for so long, I rejoiced to see it back again. From the BBC I used to love, but which sold its soul and betrayed us.
Dónde ver con subtítulos en español?
what is this documentary about?
The difference of Sylvia and Assia was Sylvia never k i l l e d her children, Assia did.
You're right. The night of her suicide, Plath went to extraordinary lengths to protect her children from the gas.
@@Mark-Smeaton I heard Assia thought her daughter would be treated by people as second class child of Ted Hughes but I don't think that's an excuse. If she wanted her child to be well, then give her for adoption to any good relative or friend she had, shouldn't she? I think this is where the depth of the wisdom of both women had differs from one another. I guess Plath being a poet who used her feelings herself could feel pain so her level of wisdom is deep, while Assia was good in her creative side like an advertisement she designed gained success didn't really have that level of deep thinking.
@@missplumtree958 It's so sad in both cases - but as you say, there is a huge difference which speaks volumes about both women. For example, there is an unsent letter by Ted Hughes somewhere in his archive (apologies that I don't have the citation handy but I swear I have read this). I think it was to Jacqueline Rose and it was about Plath's journal - the one he infamously burnt because he claimed it would hurt her children. Hughes wrote that the only thing that Sylvia wrote that would have hurt her children was ONE sentence, on the very last page. He did not elaborate but in conjunction with her last poem, "Edge", I suspect that she wrote something to the effect that she was going to kill her children also - or maybe she just contemplated it or alluded to it. However (thank God), when push came to shove, Plath went to painstaking lengths to ensure the safety of her children. She didn't just stop at taping their door but also used towels and clothes, leaving their window open. Her body was still warm too, indicating she hadn't died until about 6AM - probably because she knew a nurse was arriving at 8AM. It was, I think, very carefully timed. Knowing as much as I do about suicide (my own mother took her life), these were quite impressive acts of maternal love because most people who kill themselves are in such profound states of apathy and ambivalence. I'm not sure that many people would go to that much effort. As for Assia, she asked both her sister and the novelist Fay Weldon to take care of Shura if anything happened to her but I don't think Assia liked other women much. I seem to remember she wrote "I couldn't stand some bloody woman" raising Shura. Coupled with that, Hughes apparently treated Shura very indifferently compared to Frieda and Nicholas (especially Frieda, who felt the need to write an article asserting that Shura was not even Hughes' daughter a few years ago). Maybe Assia thought Shura would be better off dead too but I don't know. Killing a child is a very difficult thing to see as an act of benevolence. I did feel pity for Assia after reading that biography of her published some years ago but I also read a study of parents who kill their children as well as themselves - the author argues that contrary to popular belief, parents usually DON'T kill children as a delusional act of mercy. It's a retaliatory act of vengeance - don't ask me how the author arrived at this conclusion but it was by a supposed expert in the field. Horrific subject, either way!
@@Mark-Smeaton what does bloody mean in Assia's sentence? Did she mean both women are bad people or something similar? Or rather she doesn't want any woman good or bad to take care of Shura? I had suicidal thoughts too when I was a teenager but k i ll ing others along with my suicide never occurred to me.
@@missplumtree958 @Miss Plumtree "Some bloody woman" in that sentence simply means , "Some f*cking stupid/annoying woman". Bloody was a very old school British/Australian word. Assia didn't seem to be referring to any woman in particular. Secondly, sorry for writing such insanely long, rambling posts. I'm recovering from numerous injuries atm and forced to spend a lot of time in bed. I have way too much time on my hands. lol
ultimately everything becomes so petty between folk.
The irony of him being more well-known while Sylvia was alive is that she is more famous now. I am a layperson who enjoys poetry but never really read or studied it after I completed high school. However, I already knew the name Sylvia Plath, although I am not American and we studied the old poets: Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Donne, Keats, Yeats etc. and no American poets. So it was only recently when I read The Bell Jar and became interested in her life, that I heard of Ted Hughes. I am sure if you ask any person off the street if they have heard of Sylvia Plath, they will say yes. But ask them if they have heard of Ted Hughes...I am not so sure. Nevertheless, I am happy to have discovered Ted and his poetry, but Sylvia is definitely my favourite poet.
In the video, Feinstein doesn't seem convinced of Sylvia's talent or posthumous fame, or Ted and Assia's role in her suicide etc., but clearly lights up when talking about Ted, Lol, I suppose there will always be two camps.
There does not need to be two camps; I see the merit in both oeuvres; Plath appeals to me more because she was troubled, something Greek, sybylline, about her. And you cannot argue with the authenticity of that, because of the suicide. But give poor Ted a break; from the getgo, he was in over his head. Pathology will always have its day......
Thanks for the upload.
The opening is so powerful. Anyone know the music?
@walkfromthewaves there are a couple of songs listed in the description. Maybe one of those?? Good luck! Hope you find it.😊
@@nancyrose8028 nope, but thanks anyway
@@kurisensei 😃
The opening music is called "Erosion of Mediocrity" by Manchester duo "Demdike Stare". I have finally discovered all the various titles featured on the soundtrack to this film so let me know if i can help any further (i've made a playlist on spotify).
@@pianobanter that's the one!
Thank you very much indeed.
I've found it on Spotify
i wonder how he lived all these years,
with all that guilt
interesting how they both used each other to reach their ambition: to become poets. and of course becoming a poet means becoming an archetype, to transcend being a person, to belong to people as a collective idea, a collective image.
but when the collective themselves take control of the creation of the myth and turn him into "evil husband", they don't like it. lol
his daugthter even seems hurt and offended by it: 01:06:09
she clearly didn't understand that the problem in that moment was that the power of myth making was taken from ted hughes hands by the very collective he was inscribing himself in. as for him, with all that interest in magic, anthropology and myth he understood it very well ...... just probably didn't like the feeling of losing power over the narrative.
truth is if you're trying to become an archetype and you succeed there is no switch. you can't just shut off being an archeype to become a person again when it interests you.
Why would anywhere NOT be a good Place for a poet to be born?
Aidan Convery Philip Larkin would have known the answer to this question, probably.
@@21stCen Hull did not adversely affect Larkin's poetry .
Something extremely Pagan about Teds work. I've read a lot of occult writings and traditionalist writing, people like Evola and Jung. He must of been influenced by that stuff because it seems a constant theme throughout his writings. An ultra paganist feel about it. Very English. He's like a English Mystic the same way Yeats was an Irish Mystic.
yes, quite possibly; however, shame about the Shakespeare motherlode obsession, akin to Yeats' pre-occupation with the occult. I believe half a dozen of Hughes' poems are remarkable, will stand the test of time. I salute you, Ted, valediction inscribed in granite gold leaf, on Dartmoor....a fitting epitaph in my opinion
With two such incredible poets for parents you would think Frieda would be a poetic colossus
Actually, Frieda is a very good poet (try her collections '45' or 'Stonepicker'). She has suffered from the expectation hoisted on her simply because of who her parents were. I have such respect for Frieda.
Please let people be their own people.
Ted Hughe's name should be stricken from any documentaries, stories or anything remotely connected to Sylvia Plath, he was a vile man only concerned with himself and his image, he digusts me totally.
Did you watch the documentary?
I agree
They are inextricably linked, interwoven. It would be quite false to expunge Ted from Sylvia's story
But without Sylvia, there's no story to tell.
Let's not hide truth As husband he was lousy constant affairs Cannot leave out two women's suicides and sons suicide very sad When young very handsome narc women drawn to
Tragic he was more fixated on nookie than rhimes
zip reeper Hahahaha
well, he got that right, for sure
I suggest this podcast of 2 th-cam.com/video/AbFh3SwMO7E/w-d-xo.html he was a monster
He beat her so that she miscarried her first child … I wouldn’t say he was NICE to her. Smh.
And you can prove that can you?
When you dabble with the devil. He takes revenge.
So Sylvia killed herself.
Assia killed herself along with Ted's 4 year old daughter.
Hughes son killed himself.
The Assia death is the most tragic.
The common denominator here is Ted..
A bit like what happened with led zeppelin after jimmy page's dabbling with the occult.
Isn't obvious to everyone that a lot of these people are pro Ted?
Why wouldn't they be
Very sexist.
The way Jill Barber acts like a giddy schoolgirl makes me sick to be honest.
Yeah wasn't he "married" to carol orchard then?
@@gardengirl7446 yep
Garden Girl yes.
I agree. I also think it's somewhat shocking he invited her to sleep in his bed (presumably alone and just for rest, but still...not very professional?)
@@ktnworth Poetry is not a profession; what a terrible line. But it worked. Have no heroes.......
Rabid Robin (Morgan.)
An okay poet and horrid person. No way to explain away his repeated wretched deeds. Sylvia on the other hand was a terrible loss, don't think she would have left a wake of death and destroyed lives alas. She is missed
Women in the documentary are trying their best to protect him. He is narcissistic and become old with the years he stolen from his wives.
Ted Hughes is one of the finest and influential poets in the English language . Sylvia was a brilliant but complicated and damaged woman who latterly became impossible to live with. Reducing her to mere victim at the hands of her husband and his partner insults her agency as both artist and woman. She would despise you for thinking so.
Hughes was a far superior poet to Plath. And seeing their daughter, I'm glad Hughes remained strong and raised her well, not abandoning her like her mother did.
I agree
Stopped reading at “okay poet” - was one of the best to ever do it give over
Sadly Ted sought death instead of LIFE.
His name is Jesus. SEEK JESUS today and LIVE !
oh get knotted and keep your bible bashing to yourself. not suitable here.
I hate this son,fun
Yikes. Some of the commentary has aged like milk.
You speak of Feminism, and yet fail to attribute the choice and responsibility of these women to themselves. There are some types of women who seek out polarizing and interesting, and learned, men like Ted Hughes. Most of these women are intellectuals and knew exactly what they were doing.
PoppyB2011 They continued to seek him out, successfully, long after his marriage to a woman who was not an intellectual. Mr Hughes surely had some volition.
Your level of intellect doesn't correlate with your mental health. Sylvia and Assia were both brilliant women but their downfall was the times they were living in.. In the 1950s, ignorance about mental health meant that there was extreme stigma and fear surrounding it. People with mental health problems were considered 'lunatics' and 'defective' and were sent off to asylums. 'Insanity' was thought to be incurable and there was no incentive to treat it. I mean, Sylvia was forced to take electric shock therapy for her depression! The 50s were tough on women and the mentally ill.
These celibate academics think he's Byron, Burton and Heath cliffe...
i recently finished reading my copy of birthday leters...and to be honest, its not a good bood. its too long and over indulgent.
It's just plain bad writing as well. His penultimate book Tales from Ovid is far better.
1:06:50 A pattern emerges in the late 60s "Ariel" inspired feminist movement. Robin Morgan, Gloria Steinem, Jacqueline Rose, Sandra Gilbert et all ( curiously all Jewish critics ) round on Hughes and men in authority. These self elected activists made the Plath-Hughes story their own into order to strike a political cudgel at Hughes and the " patriarchy" . Sitting in their Long Island homes today butter would not melt in their mouths. They were " thieves" of other peoples misfortunes.
leftism at its finest and its ironic they were off the ''tribe''. Ted was an English Mystic.
Какая мерзость и жестокасть к дивотнам.
It’s shameless on the one hand how they play up the animal imagery of him - and hypocritically try to play it down with the other, and all along some of these people seem to be in a semi state of masturbatory excitement. While Mr Armitage appears to be half asleep almost unable to say what he really feels? I get the feeling from watching this well dressed lurid titillation that Ted Hughes would somehow be embarrassed at worst or simply laugh it off as light entertainment for those who know nothing of the poet or his poetry.
Narcissist! Evil Narcissist! Why can't people see this. He needs cancelling!
He does not need cancellation myopia becomes you . He was a force of Nature . Free Speech means exactly that.
Woke morons who talk about cancelling ppl need cancelling. They are the death of free speech.
Cancelling? Evil? Don't be ludicrous. What a bland, sanitised, stagnant world you would want to live in. Besides, some of the worst works of art ever created has been made by very nice people.
1000%
Robin Morgan is, apparently, a lousy poetess.
What a ridiculous fucking soap opera!
Most poets are narcissistic con artists, in my opinion. They use words to aggrandise themselves. The words have to sound as impressive as possible. Having watched this, i would put Hughes and Plath in that category.
Narcissists don’t kill themselves. Plath most likely had Borderline Personality not narcissistic.
No, they use words because they feel the need to create. I'm willing to bet that you're imaginatively bankrupt.
Ted Hughes was notoriously private. Did you actually watch the documentary?
@@melissanicholson1913 Okay, that's one hell of a claim. So you're saying that narcissists don't commit suicide?? Provide evidence please.
and you, sir, sound like a self-regarding, ignorant ass
the shame of the English
If you say so
He was a good poet, but Plath achieved, by her own unique merits (far above and beyond Hughes' boring and presumptuous male poetry), a worldwide status that he could only have dreamt about. Clearly a womanizer, an immature, an overpraised white straight male. Of course, he won the Pulitzer (Snodgrass, Lowell, Berryman... Sexton - all these confessional ports did it too) - but that is too little for the (extremely) high account in which he had himself. RIP.