The main reason that used EV prices are falling so fast is because they were marked up so high in 2022. A new Tesla in 2022 was $70K and a used one at the time was $90K due to supply chain issues.
In demand gas cars had the same mark ups lol, it wasn’t just EVs, and Tesla were never marked up, why can’t you wrap around your head that evs simply aren’t in high demand even with government incentives, there’s a reason even electric cars that never had a mark up like the lucid are losing for 40k of its value in the first yesr
@@BMWROYALThis isnt even true. Used EVs during peak covid were like 35% more than sticker price, with 2 year waitlists. Hardly any ICE car had the same.
@@Tttb95 yes they were you just don’t know about cars lol G wagons were selling for double MSRP, lol the rav4 hybrid was selling well over 30% msrp, so was the corvette c8, lol do some research. The new bmw m3 was on a 2 year wait list, it’s still a 1 year wait list to get one now and they still selling for over sticker
Thanfully I dont buy cars to sell them. If I bought Model Y in 2022 I would keep it as long as it drives good. We had epic bubble in everything in 2021 and 2022 caused by money printing and price gauging. Again if you had any brain than you will not buy EVs and cars when they were overpriced as hell. You wait for a recession when they sell for a fraction of price. The same apply for everything like stocks, gold, houses etc.
@@johnsmith-cw3wo It's like buying anything when you missed a sale. So what, you paid more than the person who bought on sale. At the time, you thought it was worth it. Same thing with people who bought Teslas at peak prices. Maybe you'll have to keep them a few years longer, or run them into the ground to amortize your used car price losses.
I love how they keep interviewing dealerships. They have the biggest conflict of interest when it comes to EV adoption. You might as well be interviewing Exxon. As others have mentioned... EV prices while already high were inflated even more over 2022. So their prices had nowhere to go but down.
Yeah but that drastically of a drop? Still how do you explain Tesla not hitting their desired mark even after dropping the price? That's like apple releasing next year's iphone at 30% lower price and still somehow selling less than the previous year.
@@Cornelius87 because there are more options than before, Tesla price cuts aren't working because people are hesitant to buy, and getting a hybrid instead, so they have to keep cutting which drag the market down
Quick google search. 36% of the us rents. 2/3rd of homes have garages OR carports. Convenient Lvl 2 charging is off the table for half the us population.
It could also be that everyone who would've wanted an EV already bought one. For people who didn't want an EV, it'll take a bit more to convert them (better milage, more fast chargers available).
If EV's were the problem, every car lot in the USA wouldn't be bursting at the seams with ICE cars. The car companies are charging 50-100 grand for those. EVs aren't the problem, all the out of touch car companies are.
@@patton3338 a more accurate way to see how consumer treat used EVs is the price of those EVs when the battery warranty ran out @ 8 years/120k miles then compare it to ICE cars
@@patton3338 agree. EVs are at the stage where it needs to be designed for at the mid level price point. Something reliable and long-lasting sensible, everyday people would feel safe dropping tens of thousands of dollars on.
Yeah, in October 2023 a used Tesla cost more than a new Tesla because it took months to get one. Now there is supply available and there have been big price cuts for new EVs, so of course resell price is going down much quicker than other vehicles
After a year+ , their miles range max continues to drops down , due to battery degradation. How 2 nd owners cover Warranty issues running out esp if any batteries defect, there’s no repairing individual defects but replace whole new 7000 batteries bed engine. …In case grid down , it’ll be useless. Such gamble impractical investment, expensive toy. Are we gonna see mass refurbished , with batteries bed cost majority of total car cost.
The main people saying EV demand is low are dealerships selling overpriced EVs with insane dealer markups. The handful of reasonably priced high quality EVs on the market, are selling faster than they can be made. Dealers are so scummy they'll blame anything other than their own greed for faltering sales.
Newsflash. The only people who can afford them are people with money. Thats why they target luxury brands and premium packages 1st. Cheap models come after. The more expensive depreciate in time as well. People will buy them in 3-5 years or by second hand.
Yes I am not seeing these drastic price cuts. What I am seeing is Tesla lowered prices on NEW cars which stopped the people paying UP for outrageously priced used cars.
LFP batteries last much longer - so the Ford Mustang base, the Tesla Model 3 & Y standard range EVs have LFP batteries. Ranges are certainly gradually improving, so it may be worth waiting for a 350 mile range, or installing a home charger if you can.
If you do not have a home charger then getting an EV is probably pointless for you. Even on a 10 year tesla theyre still getting close to 300 miles in a charge to 100%...pretty good
@@hobo1704 Just so you know, companies can simulate battery life over many years by performing multiple charge cycles in a laboratory. This is called destructive testing and it's done by engineers for many products, including batteries, to find the fail points and fix them before the product goes to market. So just a small piece of advice, don't call people clowns when you don't know what you're talking about. It's a bad look.
This is supposed to be the norm. It looks like a huge crash because of the near extortionate level markups that plagued used markets. Those same dealers are now wondering why their 300% markup isn’t selling when manufacturers like Tesla, Lucid and Rivian are aggressively pushing their own stock both via finance and lease. This is also not to mention lease incentive is huge. Leases are amazing deals for EVs right now. My Model 3 alongside a family member’s eTron costs less than what my previous BMW M340i costed in lease and yet if you cash out, the etron alone will easily outprice the 340i not even mentioning the Model 3. Combine that with lease positives like tax deduction, worry free maintenance, there really isn’t a reason to lease these mid-tier EVs.
It's why those car dealers want new laws to keep EV makers from selling direct to consumers. People are beginning to wake up what a ripoff car dealers are and dealers are realizing their future is dark.
@@bassandtrebleclefit’s cheap in the scene of what I’m comparing it to. It’s definitely not worth more than 2 vehicles, a small size sedan and a full size luxury suv.
Electrify America has been the main culprit for slowing down non Tesla EVs. You can't expect people to adopt a technology while the charging network is unreliable. The other brands are struggling for that very reason except Tesla because they own their network. Hopefully with the Nacs adoption, people would be more inclined to tolerate other brands.
I charge at home. For apartment dwellers, Level 2s can be put in parking areas. Electrify America is for travelers mostly. I pay 23 cents a kwh at home charging off peak on the grid. Electrify America charges 48 cents a kwh. So the vast majority of your charging is at home off of your dryer outlet. Most EVs will fully charge overnight for under $20.
@@Herlongian Although that would be the ideal scenario, we all know some of these non Tesla EVs come with sub part range and when you are running errands or taking kids to soccer, that range depletes fast. I have an Etron that boast 215 miles range at 100%, 80% of that gets me 160 miles when I charge at home. In an emergency, the scarcity and lack of reliability of chargers make it so that we have a gas car. We can't second guess in the panic because charging at home takes about 5 hours to replenish my range. That's fine when you're sleeping. But in an emergency, I can't rely on Electrify America.
In 2022 EVs were selling well over MSRP. Even Tesla was selling the Model Y for $15k more than its original price. In late 2022, a used Model Y sold for more than a new one today. Model 3 owners were trading in their cars for essentially what they purchased them for in 2021. So any drop in used EV prices in 2023 just reflects the increased supply and the return of MSRP pricing.
MSRP does not typically apply to used vehicles because the value of a used car is going to vary widely based on age of the car; condition; mileage, etc. Resale value is the more appropriate metric here.
@@Marc-King777 It's a good indication if a used vehicle is sold above or around MSRP after a year or two of normal use. With most vehicles, you'd expect 15% or 20% value drop from the MSRP in the first year. Then another 10% to 15% the other year. The biggest drop would obviously be the first year, followed by second year, and then third year. This is accounting for normal wear (nothing is broken, everything is functional, etc.). If an EV is selling for MSRP or above MSRP, that means the demand is just that DAMN high. OP says that now the market is basically past the honeymoon phase where people are now starting to buy things based on the actual value.
Good thing is they are inexpensive to get installed and many local utilities will give you rebates for the install. I just got mine done and it was almost free.
It should be in the zoning. It literally adds about $100 to the cost of a new home if done during construction...or about 40 cents a month if rolled into a mortgage.
I'd suggest changing the new home requirement to having the circuit installed - preferably to a hardwired EV charger or sealed off in a junction box for future install. EV charging is likely the most demanding electrical circuit in a home and the NEMA 14-50 was not designed for that purpose - either for safety or durability. A hardwired EV charger eliminates points of failure and can better monitor for poor or overheated electrical connections. The NEMA 14-50 was designed for ranges and was not meant to be left exposed or to be put under hours long maximum demand.
Several car renting companies are removing the EV cars from their rental vehicle fleet. The two main reasons are low resale value and very cost for accident repairs! Routine maintenance costs are low. But batteries repairs are expensive and body shop repairs are also expensive ! Talk to body repair shops and ask them about the availability of Tesla spare parts !!!
Nothing new. Every innovative product goes through this cycle. When cars replaced horse wagons these were the exact issues we faced: costs, supply, reliability, technology, learning curve from all sides.
@RandomRads Haha, you compared an apple to an orange. You also forgot to mention roads, horses could go virtually anywhere, the horseles buggy couldn't do that. That doesn't apply in this scenario. Would you go to the store and buy a used battery? No didn't think so. I wouldn't touch a used EV. And current prices of EVs with their lack luster performance and practicality will have me holding on to my midsized pick up truck. Ill wait for toyotas/ Fords 1000 mile solid state battery mid sized pick up truck under a full towing and payload. Tesla will die.
@@brandonsheffield9873 Everything dies at some point. Who cares! All I know for sure is- For the next 10 years Tesla is definitely worth buying. Very reliable, high performance (455 hp), practical, safe, superior tech. Battery costs are coming down. I enjoy every bit of it. Also I love my Honda Pilot ;)
@@GoldTau-jd2cs People can have a strange behaviour! Take a person who takes good care of his / her car, put him or her in a rented car, then you have a stock car driver! Why .... ??? P.S. Car driver rages are not exclusively men! There are as many women as men !
It's weird that no one mentioned the soon-to-be-deprecated charging ports as one reason for the low demand outside of Tesla. The Nissan Leaf still uses CHAdeMO and the rest of the players have at least another year of using the CCS connected before they switch to the Tesla (NACS) port. It makes all the sense in the world to wait for the NACS charge port before buying from another manufacturer.
That's not the reason for low demand. The truth is no one wants EVs. Tesla became the new 'BMW' wealth status symbol that's why it sells. No one wants 'mainstream' EVs
CCS to/from NACS is an easy (read “cheap”) adapter to make, as both sides speak the same language. It’s hardly a reason to wait for native NACS. This only leaves the Nissan Leaf out in the cold, as A CHAdeMO adapter would need a computer inside, making it prohibitively expensive. And this only applies to DC fast charging, as newer Leafs have an additional CCS style port for level 2 charging.
Also, the used market will have more 4-5 year old Tesla's due to customers getting out of them with warranty still in place and therefore having a higher residual value over a 6-7 year old EV. Consumers are anxious about getting an older EV due to battery replacement cost with that golden warranty getting close to running out. Warranty is a huge part of the risk with new technologies.
Most people who can afford an EV and want one already have one, so now more of the market are less wealthy drivers who can't justify the costs because the fuel/maintenance savings don't offset the high cost of purchasing one, even with rebates and lower resale values. Hybrid vehicles look much more promising in terms of affordability and reliability for the next 5-10 years until EV prices fall, not to mention you don't have to deal with range anxiety or charging.
So you really think that the fastest growing segment (BEV) that is currently growing 30%+ every year, all of a sudden will drop to 0% growth, or lower?
@John101B absolutely not, I never said that lol. The EV segment is still growing and will continue to grow, just not as fast as it was previously, for the reasons I mentioned.
This is definitely a goal of the car manufacturers. It's also one reason they're moving away from industry standard communications and entertainment protocols like Carplay and Android Auto to their own environments, to capture recurring revenue for services, not to mention data collection
as long as they stick to regular rectangular 16:9 or 16:10 screens they will age better than previous generations of cars that seem ancient just 10 years in.
WRONG! Most cellphones are the same. A better camera doesn't count as a better cell phone sorry apple and Galaxy fan boys/girls. lol. . However, you're not supposed to change your car as much as you change your phone. Most cars are the same year to year they barely increase the mpg. If you're talking about technology you might have a point but in terms of mpg, safety, etc. from year to year its not drastic change. Even prius might have a gradual change from year to year in gas mileage. But I just google chevy bolt which is the best EV a average person can afford from 2017-2019 it still had the same gas range. But 2020 it went up 238 to 259 males of range.
I like a manual transmission, I find them fun. Rev matching my downshifts and heel and toe braking is awesome and it would be very hard for me to give it up for a car that sounds like a UFO.
Some of us like to buy cars that are over 10 years old to take full advantage of depreciation. I’d love to have an EV, the Cybertruck looks amazing, but I’m not paying full price for one and last time I check there were no large truck or suv electric vehicles being made in 2013… so, I’ll wait. The Ford Lightning seems to be dropping like a rock on the used market so that’s a good sign :)
I've wanted to purchase a hybrid or EV since 2008, but prices, range, and unknowns about battery life have led me to continue to buy just high mpg ICE's.
If you can find a used Hyundai Ioniq 2018, 2019 Hybrid, for 12-15K Get it! Wife and I bought one brand new in 2019, she commutes one way 80 miles a day, we have gotten 50-60 MPG day in and out, with zero issues. Just tires, and standard vehicle maintenance. The car has about halfway paid for itself in saved fuel costs alone. Car has almost 150K miles on it now.
@@danielstewart7732 Don't buy Kia, Hyundai or Genesis products, they are the worst cars on the market right now. Terrible quality, awful design choices, dreadful failure rate. It would be better to just burn the money you have rather than spend them on a Hyundai Group car.
My 2018 Tesla Model 3 still gets 255-260 miles of range on the display when charged to 90%. Also, runs like it is brand new, and hasn't needed any maintenance except 12v battery replace and tire replacement. Not even a cabin filter change which I will is expected to take place in 6 year rotation. Edit: Cabin filter should be changed every 2 years. I am not sure where I got 6 years, but somewhere along the way I picked up this misinformation and have been operating without cabin filter changes like I should.
My camry, same years and miles, has needed oil changes (which I buy in packages of 3) and one transmission fluid change. I got mine slightly used for 15k...the entire point of the article
It’s affordability and lots of misinformation that are hurting sales. I got an Ev to try. 8 people on my team of 9 at work flipped out. When I pressed for why they dislike them so much, they didn’t have an answer. No experience with them, nothing. Some were open to taking a ride and really liked it, some where indifferent, and others want even get in it. Like it’s some possessed creature. We have different spaghetti sauce, different toppings for pizza, why can’t we have different power sources for our car?
People don’t like them because they can’t charge in the winter, low range, take a half hour to charge if the cables for the super chargers haven’t already been stolen and they are expensive to buy and to maintain. Nothing like Tesla’s bad build quality and to replace a battery costing 30 grand
Got my Tesla M3 in Jan 2022, was getting 6-7k over my msrp in April '22. And i bought at a fairly high price. 2022 was a year where used cars were more expensive, used EVs were more expensive than new cars. So in comparison '23 30% reduction makes sense. EV price mainly headed by Tesla are coming down in price for S3XY, if new cars are going to get cheaper, used car prices will go down as well. But if you buy a Tesla '24 model in Jan, and sell it in Feb, that's almost out of door depreciation, i feel some EVs might be the lowest depreciation. Overall i think prices coming down is a good thing, even though personally I won't be able to benefit if i sell my car, i want EVs to become commodity, and not something that people have to shell out extra for. We want the market to be buyers market.
Have you noticed all the Used Electric Cars sitting on car lots.? I drive alot up and down the CA. State, I've noticed a lot of EV showing up in these used car lots. I've even seen newer used 2023 models. That says it all, .. evidently not too many people like their EV . Looks like more are going back to Gas.
Most people sell their EVs because their batteries are failing from abuse...Battery degradation and Phantom drain ---- if you continue using the fast charge method you will increase speed at which your batteries degrade . You will start losing range at even a faster rate than normal resulting in more frequent charges and even more time lost and finally ... battery replacement and believe me, you don't want that $$$$$. The best way to explain Phantom Drain, ... it is like having a small hole in your gas tank with a constant drip or in this case EV. In other words , money down the drain.. EVs lose juice by just sitting for a period of time ( in the garage, driveways, street, etc) All rechargeable batteries do.
Bad news: fewer people can afford expensive cars, new and used. Those who can afford an EV prefer to buy new. Those who can’t are looking into economy ICE cars below 20K rather than 30K used EV. You need to drive a lot of miles to break even on the cost difference between buying & running any EV and a cheap ICE vehicle. Some of those on the tight budget do maintenance and minor repairs. While EVs are assumed to require fewer repairs, they do break down occasionally and a probability of failure increases with age of the EV. Then the only option is to go to the dealer and pay $$$. That puts off many of those DIY used car buyers.
Keep in mind, a used EV will have some potentially large costs coming depending on the mileage. I bought by normal ICE car in 2013 at 33Kmiles and it has gone over 100K miles with out any significant maintenance outside of normal wear and tear. The issue with EVs is that after a certain number of miles they do become relatively cheap as there is a battery replacement looming on the horizon. That can be $20-30K and may not be covered under warranty. That's a huge expense if you buy a car for 20-30k used.
@@ahastar1141 battery replacements are only a concern if you exclusively fast charge your car like a taxi (in which case you already made money on in) or if its a first generation EV or if its from GM. Battery replacements are not, and will not become a normal consideration for EVs.
@@h20dancing18 Battery replacements are a concern for anything with a battery. Batteries lose capacity over time and can fail. It's inescapable. My phone is only two years old and doesn't last as long as it used to. My gas car is two years old and hasn't lost any range. For a phone that's replaced every few years, it's annoying. For a car that costs many, many times more than a phone and is expected to last for at least a decade, it's a big concern.
Yep, that's how I bought my 2 EVs. Used. My first one has over 145,000 miles on it. Probably not worth a lot now, but I plan to own it until I've got 320,000 miles, if I can make it.
I bought a used Nissan leaf in 2018. At the time it was scary because the price was very low. I thought that there might be something wrong with it. But there was nothing wrong with it. It's an amazing car. The only difference is that my car had a low range. Newer electric cars have a much better range. If you have an outlet close enough to reach your car it's a perfect car for short range driving. Not good for long road trips.
This is basically my story exactly, except that it was 2019. What I haven't heard yet in this report is the amount of FUD being put out against EVs. Now that they're actually a threat to the oil industry, the FUD has been stepped up significantly and that's definitely depressing demand. Just about every non-EV owner I've spoken to recently had parroted some industry misinformation.
@@beefironThey aren't a threat to the oil industry because only 🐑 are buying EV's. I bought a used ICE car 2 years ago for 14,900 and never been happier. Fill up every 8 or 9 days in about 5 minutes and can continue traveling wherever I want to without any range anxiety. Love it. 👍👍
@@extremedrivr You mean you have to go to a service station to fill up? You can't generate your own fuel at home? I guess you enjoy being captive to the whims of OPEC 😂
The issue with used EVs is, that they are very often outdated. The technique is involving so fast, that buying a car that was built some three years ago, is - compared to the latest generation - outperformed in terms of charging time, assistant systems, and functionality. Also, these older cares were more expensive, so to compete with a new car, they can only be sold with a massive discount.
@@mostmost1@mostmost1 Well, as a Tesla driver, you are forgiven for thinking that a car is mainly soft- and not hardware. Enjoy your updates - and who knows, on one lucky day, even the assistant systems might at least be able to read traffic signs.
@@ThomasZadro kid Stop projecting your insecurities on others. I never said mainly software. We own more than one vehicle. Ev cars will not destroy cars on gasoline. The fearmongering is pitiful. BTW It reads those signs now.
Part of why EV Prices are falling so fast is because we aren't comparing apples to apples with prices. If I buy a $60k EV. I likely got a $7,500 tax credit for it. So the effective prices was really $52,500. Now 3 years later lets say that EV is worth $40k. That would be a 33% reduction from sticker. But a 23% drop in "effective" prices. I think that's a much more accurate way to measure it. Tesla reducing costs is also a major factor. But I really think we aren't looking at the right metrics.
You also have to account for excessive price gouging that occurred in 2022. Even Tesla raised prices significantly in 2022, only to drop them back down to the original price in 2023. No one wants to talk about how used Teslas sold for more than a new can be purchased for today.The same with the Mustang Mach-E.
@@Tttb95yes supply and demand but effect’s depreciation of said product. There was no caps on what dealers can markup causing a lot of people to have no choice but to keep there vehicles and wait till the loans expired since the vehicles are practically worthless/ upside down
@@williamerazo3921 Dealers cant set arbitrary prices and run profitable businesses. That isnt how this works. This is econ 101. They had to mark them up because of a lack of supply and normal/heightened demand. Lets go back to our basic curves. What happens to equilibrium price as the supply curve shifts left? Said another way, if dealers really had true pricing power (ie not driven by market forces), then why did they set prices so low and greatly reduce their profits for decades? That is nonsensical.
I agree the main issue is not battery degradation. I believe it’s because people listen to people talking about issues like battery degradation and refuse to do the research for themselves to separate fact from fiction. Whatever car you buy, do your research and make the best decision for you.
Actually the main issue is the traction battery has an 8yr/100,000mi warranty that can be voided by driving through a heavy rain storm as a Scottish couple recently found out. Getting caught in a flood can also void the warranty as many EV owners found out after a recent hurricane. Add to that everything else on the car is only covered by a 4yr/50,000mi warranty. An out of warranty Tesla LED headlight replacement runs $1900. A 2020 Toyota Corolla LED headlight and bucket runs less than $200. If you know how to use a nut driver installation is free. If not you can take it to any one of a thousand mechanics to do the labor for about $100 more. Out of warranty repair costs are going to make people start to shy away from the used EV market. There will always be a core of EVangelist willing to follow their religion.
@@Trust_but_Verify😂😂😂 "Chances are low" I dont think you understand how batteries work.They wear out over time and wear out even if youre not using them. You can repair an engine but batteries are only replaceable.
I work in a shop and you would be surprised how close a battery replacement is to an engine. We did a battery swap on a model 3 and it was around 9k. The only reason the battery was replaced was because they hit a large rock. We did an engine replacement in a chevy eqinox because it lost oil pressure and that was around $7200. Most shops do not repair engines any more because it is not worth it.
@@noobjitsu1743 If manf. are smart they can make it so only damaged module can be replaced instead of whole thing. Given millions of EV so far the chances are low. I am only referring to Tesla. The other brands' longevity has not been established.
Something I'll add that makes them dangerous to be behind on the road is this stupid one pedal driving. I was behind a Tesla earlier today and it came to complete stop at a light with no sign of brake light until I was down to 5mph. Then they came on for about 10 seconds and off they went. The light was still red and we were on a downhill. The aggressive re-gen that allows 1 pedal driving is very unsafe. Brake lights are there to indicate to the person behind that you are slowing down. When you can go from 35mph to 5mph with no brake lights in half a blocks distance with no brake lights is absurd. the brake lights should come on as soon as you take your foot of the go pedal if you have re-gen activated.
My ev6 brake light comes on when the regen slows down the car regardless of whether I'm in one pedal mode. No brake lights during regen must just be a tesla thing?
Being an Audi etron owner who’s currently selling my vehicle, I can safely say once the warranty has ended sell up because repair costs are through the roof.
@@Plisken65. Batteries are chemical systems. They age regardless of use, and their final moments are characterized by rapid decline. The batteries in EVs are identical to the ones in your phone and laptop, just bigger.
Do you know why there's low resale value for an EV? Because replacing those batteries costs a fortune. Replacing engine parts in an ICE is far cheaper even if its a full engine than a new battery in an EV.
It was over 10k to replace an engine in a pickup for a Ram these days (at least that was the estimate for one of our law enforcement vehicle replacement quotes in the paper).
My friend has a Porsche cayenne hybrid that is only a few years old and has about 8000 miles on it. He can only get about 8 miles on a charge now so it needs a new battery. The new battery is over $25k. Maybe this is another reason for falling used car prices.
I’ve considered buying a used EV however I’m deterred by the battery issue. When it’s time to replace it - the cost is 5x a new transmission. And who knows how worn out it is by the time you get it? Also.. what is the process to have it replaced? A lot of unknowns.
@@stephenogrady267 I don't supercharge much. 78k miles only need to do it 3 times. Model 3/Y long range warranty for battery is 120,000 miles/8 years. Might have a difference with Uber driver on EV that needs to supercharge daily.
I think investing more in hybrids until the charging networks gets better is the way to go. No charger, use gas, if a charger is available use the battery and save the gas. Hybrids just make more sense for the next 10-15 years.
I think Toyota and Honda agree. They've gone all-in on hybrids and only offer an EV compliance car as required. My ideal market would be EVs for those who want one, PHEVs for those who want to do daily driving on electric but have the range and convenience of gas for trips, and hybrids for everyone else. I can't plug in at home so an EV doesn't make sense for me.
@@bwofficial1776no they have not gone all in on hybrids. Prius is not supported like it was in the past. They make you wait months to get them. Rav 4 prime has a long wait list. Toyota doesn't make enough of them and the dealership marks up the price.
For some people in some applications they may be a viable solution but the inherent problem of hybrids is the complexity of having redundant power sources. Unless they are PHEV they don't benefit from low cost electric range. This combined with data that shows many people use them simply as hybrids negates any advantage.
Something not mentioned is that prior to 2022, used EV's typically costed more than new due to waiting lists and demand. Until recently Model 3's and Model Y's in the used marked costed $5k to $15k more than new off Tesla's website.
I bought a Kia Niro EV 3.5 years ago. I am saving roughly $3000 a year in fuel costs vs the ICE car it replaced. I haven't had any oil changes, and I won't need to do engine air filters or spark plugs EVER. Brake pads now last 100-130k miles between changes. No radiator to boil over. I'm also much a much calmer driver because there's no noise or vibration while driving, and no fumes leaking into the cabin to worry about. If I had to charge my car on the street, it would be a problem, but I don't - I have a home and a garage. Additionally my office building has a few free-to-use charging hookups as well for the tenants. I realize that there are several cases where an EV doesn't work (driving 300 mi every day, live in an apartment and park far from the actual residence, etc) but if you're in a house with electricity and need a new car in 2023/2024 I think you would be foolish to not consider an EV.
The bigger problem is assaults at charging stations. Only 3-7% of these assaults get reported…especially for cross country travelers. Unlike gas stations, there is absolutely no security at EV charging stations. Often they are located in areas behind shopping centers which are obscured from public view your chances of getting robbed or assaulted while charging are exponentially higher than filling up at a gas station.
Let's see some data. Think this is a manufactured problem. Maybe I should quote some made up stat about catching some deadly disease from gas station bathrooms.
Most of the charging places I've seen are in public places that tend to have a lot of traffic like gas stations and restaurants or at malls, I haven't seen many abandoned the way you described
For me buying a used EV has one big question, How the maintenance was done, and the battery life. Need more time for consumers to see how these cars will age. And definitely, the price cut on the new Tesla pressured the price of the same product but used. The design is the same and the software is updated so it is a no-brainer that you need to cut the prices on the used ones.
For real @robertgary3561 I'm not aware of any specific cost, but it is a natural law, if move it can be broken, if any problem in the eletrical engine or any other part only the manufacture can fix, this is a problem for "stantard" car buyers. I think we need more time or more content to be more aware of the hiden costs of this type of car. Just my point of view.
I think its still that fear of having to replace a battery after 10 or so years. I keep my vehicles forever and my 1990 chevy still has the original engine and transmission in it. I have a old lithium battery drill that is about 12 years old and the battery still seems to work fine, a lot of people buy new cars and trade them in every 5 years so for those people there is no worry
I have several old ICEs. When one dies I will get 1 EV so I have no range worry because I can drive a different car every day. I appreciate Tesla dropping prices and competing with traditional dealers. Hopefully prices go down for all vehicles.
Are you sure about those maintenance costs or did you just get that info from Tesla’s marketing arm? I ask because apparently someone reviewed a Tesla after having a dingle. They couldn’t just get the bumper beaten out or just replace the bumper, they had to pay a ridiculous amount and have a portion of the chassis replaced. Apparently you can’t just get the brake pads changed, you have to get a whole new tyre kit and you can’t just go to your generic tyre dealer either. From what I’ve heard, the cost price of a Tesla is one thing then the running costs are astronomical although the fuel costs less than combustion engines.
PS although I live in Australia so that will, inevitably, have the “Australian tax” added, just like last time when I looked at Adobe Photoshop etc. The USA version was a few hundred, the Australian version was close to $1500.
@@DarkMatterZine Not sure where you got the brake pad story from - you can replace them yourself or at your local mechanic people do it all the time, there is nothing special about them. You can have tyres put on anywhere no issue, you just need to instruct the shop how to lift the car using lifting pucks. If a part chassis replacement was required that will be related to a structural / safety issue, no problem ensuring safety and compliance regulations are in place. I spent $22k on my Audi A4 over 4 years and 80,000km on maintenance and fuel. So far after almost a year and 23,000km I have spent $770 - total.
It makes sense if you think of them like the smartphone prices. The new ones will command premium, then value drops significantly when new ones come on the line....because they have built-in obsolescence in the non-swappable batteries that, when they need to be replaced, make up almost half the price of the vehicle....
@@stephenogrady267 There needs to be one...but to be most effective, industry needs to establish standardized battery system...so that it's not limited to one car company.
Should I be documenting my negotiations with car dealers while trying to get an EV? I’ve been counting their inventories and bringing that up as a reason why I need them to do better on price….it’s a waiting game and I’m not giving up until I get a crazy deal.
A used EV is a big risk given the cost of a new battery pack. Two years ago, I bought a used 2000 Honda. The engine, transmission, and frame were in excellent condition, no seal damage, no problems. My wife has put another 50,000 miles on that care with only the usual maintenance for brakes, clutch, etc, none of which as even begun to approach the cost of a new battery pack. The car is 23 years old. I am skeptical we will see any of these new EVs reaching 24 years old and still being on the road.
I think these EVs were designed to be throw away cars, They want everyone paying car payments or leasing forever. Why make a long lasting car with easy to swap batteries if you can just sell them. new one
This is why Toyota rav 4 prime is the best car. It was already the best selling suv but the prime can go 40 miles on a charge so great for local commutes in smaller cities and suburbs. Once again, Toyota has made all the right moves.
Because replacing a battery costs an arm and a leg. Few mechanics want to work on them because they fear for their lives. Manufacturers have poor support! The only EVs I would buy today are MHEVs. Unless I had the solar and a commute to justify short-term leasing.
5:16 this quote is far too true. Everyone is fast to blame EVs as "flawed" but in reality they are just improving faster than anything in the history of the automobile. Turns out this impacts the used and new market, A LOT.
All prices were up during covid, but EVs were much higher across the board. Teslas were especially high during that time, which is why their huge cuts in prices are impacting costs of all other EVs. Why would I got and buy a used ‘22 ford when I could go and buy a new ‘23 Tesla for the same amt before factoring incentives
Maybe EV sales are down because we're in a horrible high interest rate market where wages are not keeping up with inflation and 80% of Americans can barely afford housing and buying an EV might not be the highest priority. This is all macros, nothing to do with EVs. Everyone knows EVs are the future, it's just hard to drop $90K on a new EV when your old gas beater works just fine, for now.
I think the problem is reliability and the potential for high repair costs when the expensive components begin to fail. Also people may not have the luxury of a second car if their primary transport breaks down so it needs to be fixed quickly which is currently not always the case.
The tires wear out much faster due to weight and high acceleration. How come that wasn't mentioned when he said that there are fewer repairs? Those tires aren't cheap.@@HIDHIFDB
The general population has figured out, that for some reason it doesn't make sense to pay 15-20K for a used EV, that will soon require an 20K battery replacement.. they have literally created a disposable car. That generates 70% MORE CO2 waste in its production, than an ICE car. that has a pretty much fixed 10-12 year life span. The entire EV market is fueled by rich people who can afford a 3rd or fourth that can be replaced every 4-5 years, and one that doesn't need to be dependable, as a single car family requires. There is NOTHING green about EV's.. and they have nothing to do with Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.
Prices are still too damn high. My local Kia dealer has an EV9 for just over $75k USD and PHEV Sportage for $48k USD with zero options. You will NEVER get the PHEV premium back in saved fuel or residential value. The EV9 will be worth close to nothing in ten years, so you will never save that $75k in fuel or maintenance costs. Especially when you factor in higher insurance rates and more frequent tire changes. With my ICE the tires have been by far the highest expense. Replacing them 20-50% more often due to the extra weight negates a lot of running costs savings.
Interest rates up, gas prices eased, Tesla price cuts and charging network issue for non-Telsa EVs. Rising electricity rates for many or at least in my area. They have pushed about 3-4 rate increases in about 14 months. Saw many posts of long lines during Thanksgiving travels for EVs. A new battery technology could crush the used market too if it was a great deal better. I like EVs, but they are still a bit risky. Hybrid and Plug-in hybrid are the better options for the average person in my opinion.
I have two problems with purchasing an EV. One, no charging station nearby. I live in an apartment complex so charging at home is not an option and the nearest charging station is 20 miles away. Also I'm concerned about resale value. While they are high now I wouldn't want to buy a used EV with a decreased battery life. Changing the batteries in EVs is massively expensive - as much as $20K depending on the vehicle. It wouldn't be cost effective to spend tens of thousands on a used vehicle only to spend another tens of thousands a 1-2 years later on a battery change. Ultimately this is the same product track that flat screen TVs took. The tech was new and expensive but over time it fell and now they are reasonably priced. So maybe we just wait.
As an EV owner, I agree that not having a dedicated place to plug in where you live or work is definitely a problem, and I wouldn't recommend one in that case. The battery replacement cost concern is very overblown though. The current packs far outlast the typical age of cars on the road, and when they do get old, it's not like they stop working (like a gas car), they just don't go as far. If something did happen where you needed to replace the pack 10 years down the road, you also don't need to pay the cost of a new one if you don't like, you can get one salvaged from a junkyard etc, the same way most people keep 10+ year old cars on the road now if they need major engine components
@@jomeyqmaloneaccurate assessment. I also didn’t know batteries today outlast the car. And as for charging, landlords and retailers can make money selling electricity. Very soon you won’t need dedicated charging areas as electricity will be in almost every parking space.
Right, the nice thing about electric chargers is they don't have all the HAZMAT measures required for gas stations and so can be installed practically anywhere. As for wiring it, I'd say we explore development of the hardware needed to make much cheaper aluminum cables safe to install -- it can't be too difficult since that's what all the high voltage lines use already.
As an EV owner I understand and can appreciate your problem. To be honest no great solution for apartment complexes at this time and having to drive 20 miles is a non starter. As per resale I wouldn't worry as even the early Model S seem to be holding up pretty well and we will see how the market settles as most of the early Model 3 starting hitting the used market in mass. One option you should consider is if your employer begins to offer charing in the parking lot then it can be a good enough option. Every year there are more and more level 2 style charing solutions so I suspect the 20 mile distance you have now will significantly shrink.
@@jomeyqmalone There is one notable exception to the good battery longevity: the Nissan Leaf. Because it's short range and air-cooled, the battery degradation happens in far fewer miles.
I own a Tesla. I charge at home with my solar panels. I save $500/month on electricity and gas. I can not control healthcare costs but can control energy cost. My Tesla is 6 years old only maintenance, tires. Never visited service center. No oil filters in land fills. USA use to cheap electricity. That will change. Europeans can not believe USA does not have more energy conservation. Hawaii over 30% renewable energy primarily from private residential rooftop solar.
@@prettypenny2353Don't most people have insurance for that? Sure, most people don't intent to get into accident but why would you worry so much about repair cost during big accidents?
What about high interest rates? New cars used to be around 3.25%. Now with good credit rates are 8.25%? That’s doubling monthly payments for cars that are 50% higher than an ice car. So what consumers used to spend $500 per month - those payments went to $900 or $1200 per month. Which is crazy.
Ben hybrid tarafındayım kesinlikle .. Şu an elektrikli araç kullanan arkadaşlara bir sorum var ? Araçlarınızı ne kadar süre kullanmayı ve bu süre sonunda ne kadarlık zararla elden çıkartmayı göze alıyorsunuz ? Bugün günümüzde satışta olan bir elektrikli aracı 5 sene sonra 100bin km olarak alma riskine kaç kişi girer ? Hasarlı yada arızalı elektrikli araçlara verilecek hizmet için yeteri kadar servis ve yetişmiş eleman varmıdır?
If you think that's due to battery degradation, be sure to take advantage of the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty provided by Tesla, which guarantees 70% capacity during that time
I have plenty of issues with EVs. Primarily, I park on the street so charging at home isn’t convenient. I also know people who lose battery and range in the winter. The cars can’t charge as fast in the winter. In addition, the range they come with isn’t confidence inspiring. And lastly(and possibly most importantly), as they get older and their batteries degrade, the range, that wasn’t great to begin with, gets even lower. So, if I get a Chevy bolt and it has 270 miles of range on a good day when it’s new, what is that going to look like on a cold day seven years from now? Most likely the usable range is going to be something like 110 miles. That really doesn't work for me.
if you have a powerpoint, you can charge your EV. If you spend some $ to upgrade your switchboard, you can charge your EV. You can't fuel your ICE car at home, yet you expect your EV to be able to fuel at home.
Think for a sec @MathewTaylor. I can spend 5 minutes and get gas, half a mile from home. I have to go to the city for a charger & it takes unrealistically long to charge. Installing a chargepoint is a silly expense you can't expect used buyers to front, and I don't think you understand apartments. I'm not allowed (Common for renters) to make major modifications to my electrical system plus It would be incredibly rude to install a 500 foot extension cord to a parking lot in 16 peoples walk way@@MatthewTaylorAu.
I'm getting a 2019 Mx5 for about what a used model 3 goes for, partly cause I think it'll be cheaper on maintnence and more practical long term. My new job actually has a charging station in the lot, but not my lot, that's an anomoly cause the boss has an ev, and i'm not doing the extra walk. When I graduate to a owned home I may reconsider. You do not NEED to fill your gas car at home (You literally could if you wanted buy a jug) you NEED to charge your EV at home (Which is why people are willing to buy charge points)@@MatthewTaylorAu
One HUGE problem with EV's is that a lot of people are renters. Where does a renter charge their car when they may not even have a reliable parking spot? You can't just install a suitable charging outlet in your apartment, especially if you don't live on the first floor. And with Wall Street conspiring to make just about everyone a renter it will only get worse.
EVs will ruin the used car market. No one will want a 10yr+ used EV that will need a $20k battery replacement. Well maintained used ICE 10yr+ can still last a very long time.
@@keithwiebe1787 My point is there is no such thing as a 'well maintained' used EV because batteries WILL degrade over time even it was hardly driven regardless. No one will want to buy an old EV
@@Argedis I'm not sure if that's true. NCA batteries are rated at 1500 cycles before failure, which on a Tesla Model 3 converts to up to about 300,000 miles, with a highly conservative 200 mile full charge estimate. Can ICE vehicles make it that far? Yeah for sure, but do they retain value that far? Absolutely not. Once you pass 120,000 miles, ICE cars are dirt cheap unless they're collectors items.
@@kylebender5019 Used EVs drop FAR more in value compared to ICE because of inevitable battery replacement costs. Also if govt keeps forcing EV transition then demand/value for ICE will only go up
I've noticed being on my second EV that the battery wears fast at first and then levels out. If your used EV works for you now it will also work for you in 5, 7, maybe 10 years. I mean the original HV battery on my 2007 hybrid is still good.
For those who don’t mind the various higher costs of ownership and inconvenience of road trips and they can charge at home, and don’t mind owning something that depreciates so rapidly, EVs are fine. But the EV demand has leveled off already, there’s no denying it.
@CS-pl8fc , have you teat drove any? The Teslas and Ford Mach e are a hoot. I love gas and diesel as much as the next guy, but the EV experience is nothing to sleep on. Some EVs are a joke, but some gas cars are too haha.
@@danielhonas334 I have and they are not fun in the slightest. Heavy, soft cars with vague and light electric steering. Hearing you describe them as "a hoot" makes me completely devalue your opinion. Driving a 20 year old Miata is infinitely more fun.
An eight year old Tesla Model 3 sells for about $22,000 in the Portland Oregon area. But knock off $15,000 for battery replacement unless the battery has just been replaced. Make an offer of $5,000 to $7,000 and the seller should be happy to get that much.
Plug-in hybrids seem like the perfect middle ground for average commuters and occasional roadtrippers, if your local electric infrastructure is good enough to justify the higher maintenance fees. Too bad so many of the early favorites got scrapped in favor of EV lines, though.
I would have sprung for a plug-in hybrid if they had been more affordable and available. Although I am hearing that gasoline/diesel-electric hybrids (as in electric-driven, ICE only turns a generator like on trains and ships) is being explored.
With hybrids, you are paying for 2 technologies to do the same thing. In EV mode, it has to lug around an ICE engine and gasoline and in ICE mode, it has to carry a huge unused battery. I don’t know the specs, but it makes no sense if they are competitive with either ICE only or pure EV.
@@TheBooban The flip side is that hybrids, as far as I know, can be lighter than traditional EVs because they don't have to put as many batteries in (because, if you run out of electric power, you can just switch to gas mode). I think the Chevy Volt (hybrid) used to be only $2k more than a Chevy Bolt (EV), which isn't trivial on a $30k class car but isn't much more than the cost of a different paint color. At this point, I think the engine drive train cost has been optimized so much that it can be added in relatively cheaply, while for EVs a ton of R&D still has to go into bigger and more efficient batteries that won't just fail on you when it's cold.
I would buy an EV if I could afford one. And I think I can afford one if the manufacturers didn't try to force onto me some fancy technology and paraphernalia. I just need a car that can reliably and safely take me from point A to point B. That shouldn't be too expensive
The issue isn’t affordability in my opinion, people spend way too much on ice vehicles too. What People are afraid of is what happens your battery pack needs to be replaced? Sure if it’s under warranty it’s free but when it’s not every day is one step closer to a new $15,000 battery pack.
It's really important to consider the borrowing Factor and that borrowing costs for people have gotten rather expensive recently. It's possible also that with competing new models being released by Legacy audio makers this year and upcoming years that some people want something other than Tesla and want to just see how these new model vehicles perform. Case in point, the new eqe and eqs Mercedes. I'm not a fan of German engineered Vehicles because of the reliability issues but electrification may change that for me but I want to see how they perform up to and Beyond 100K miles before I ever buy one. Plus the price point is a barrier for not just me and other people
The main reason that used EV prices are falling so fast is because they were marked up so high in 2022. A new Tesla in 2022 was $70K and a used one at the time was $90K due to supply chain issues.
The fact prices of certain models since pre covid werent even mentioned shows how much of a joke "journalism" is nowadays.
In demand gas cars had the same mark ups lol, it wasn’t just EVs, and Tesla were never marked up, why can’t you wrap around your head that evs simply aren’t in high demand even with government incentives, there’s a reason even electric cars that never had a mark up like the lucid are losing for 40k of its value in the first yesr
@@BMWROYALThis isnt even true. Used EVs during peak covid were like 35% more than sticker price, with 2 year waitlists. Hardly any ICE car had the same.
@@Tttb95 yes they were you just don’t know about cars lol G wagons were selling for double MSRP, lol the rav4 hybrid was selling well over 30% msrp, so was the corvette c8, lol do some research. The new bmw m3 was on a 2 year wait list, it’s still a 1 year wait list to get one now and they still selling for over sticker
I would say cheaper gas, higher interest rates and more expensive electricity killed some of the EV market momentum.
Well Tesla did several price cuts the past year; it only makes sense, like the new car’s value, that the used car value would also go down.
If you are an Elon Fanboy and forked $65,990 for a base model Y in 2022, it will sting to sell it without a huge loss.
Thanfully I dont buy cars to sell them. If I bought Model Y in 2022 I would keep it as long as it drives good.
We had epic bubble in everything in 2021 and 2022 caused by money printing and price gauging. Again if you had any brain than you will not buy EVs and cars when they were overpriced as hell. You wait for a recession when they sell for a fraction of price. The same apply for everything like stocks, gold, houses etc.
@@johnsmith-cw3wo It's like buying anything when you missed a sale. So what, you paid more than the person who bought on sale. At the time, you thought it was worth it.
Same thing with people who bought Teslas at peak prices. Maybe you'll have to keep them a few years longer, or run them into the ground to amortize your used car price losses.
Tesla is the EV market, every other manufacturer is crap
dont worry inflation will always go up.@@bluesplit2887
I love how they keep interviewing dealerships. They have the biggest conflict of interest when it comes to EV adoption. You might as well be interviewing Exxon. As others have mentioned... EV prices while already high were inflated even more over 2022. So their prices had nowhere to go but down.
I love how americans start their sentences with “I love how…” figure of speech every time they find something disapproving
@@limlth I love how I can see what you did.🤣🤣🤣
@@limlthI love how non Americans think they have valid opinions
Yeah but that drastically of a drop? Still how do you explain Tesla not hitting their desired mark even after dropping the price? That's like apple releasing next year's iphone at 30% lower price and still somehow selling less than the previous year.
@@Cornelius87 because there are more options than before, Tesla price cuts aren't working because people are hesitant to buy, and getting a hybrid instead, so they have to keep cutting which drag the market down
Charge at home doesn’t work for most apartment or condominium residents. That will limit the number of EVs in big cities.
Street parking too. I won't get an EV because I have street parking and I'm not going to sit at a public charger for half an hour every few days.
Apparently in some states, you can force your employer to accommodate your EV charging needs while parked at work.
Quick google search. 36% of the us rents. 2/3rd of homes have garages OR carports. Convenient Lvl 2 charging is off the table for half the us population.
It’s called public charging stations. Last time I checked Condos and apartments didn’t have any gas stations on their premises!
@@resengan123gas stations aren’t convenient either!
It could also be that everyone who would've wanted an EV already bought one. For people who didn't want an EV, it'll take a bit more to convert them (better milage, more fast chargers available).
A severe price drop would normalize EV prices to reasonable levels for a consumer. Dealers blaming demand are just making greedy excuses.
If EV's were the problem, every car lot in the USA wouldn't be bursting at the seams with ICE cars.
The car companies are charging 50-100 grand for those.
EVs aren't the problem, all the out of touch car companies are.
@@patton3338 a more accurate way to see how consumer treat used EVs is the price of those EVs when the battery warranty ran out @ 8 years/120k miles then compare it to ICE cars
That would not be good for the manufacturers, they can't lose tens of thousands per unit
@@patton3338 agree. EVs are at the stage where it needs to be designed for at the mid level price point. Something reliable and long-lasting sensible, everyday people would feel safe dropping tens of thousands of dollars on.
Low end model should continue to reduce in price, high end models should significantly increase price.
Yeah, in October 2023 a used Tesla cost more than a new Tesla because it took months to get one. Now there is supply available and there have been big price cuts for new EVs, so of course resell price is going down much quicker than other vehicles
After a year+ , their miles range max continues to drops down , due to battery degradation. How 2 nd owners cover Warranty issues running out esp if any batteries defect, there’s no repairing individual defects but replace whole new 7000 batteries bed engine. …In case grid down , it’ll be useless. Such gamble impractical investment, expensive toy. Are we gonna see mass refurbished , with batteries bed cost majority of total car cost.
You mean October 2022?
The main people saying EV demand is low are dealerships selling overpriced EVs with insane dealer markups. The handful of reasonably priced high quality EVs on the market, are selling faster than they can be made. Dealers are so scummy they'll blame anything other than their own greed for faltering sales.
This is facts
Newsflash. The only people who can afford them are people with money. Thats why they target luxury brands and premium packages 1st.
Cheap models come after. The more expensive depreciate in time as well. People will buy them in 3-5 years or by second hand.
Yes I am not seeing these drastic price cuts. What I am seeing is Tesla lowered prices on NEW cars which stopped the people paying UP for outrageously priced used cars.
@@amatiphone9644 Your statement is pure projection LOL.
If you take Gas and maintenance cost. It is definitely cheaper to own a Tesla.
This Is valid for all types of cars in the US currently.
Battery life and range limitations are issues that remain unresolved.
LFP batteries last much longer - so the Ford Mustang base, the Tesla Model 3 & Y standard range EVs have LFP batteries. Ranges are certainly gradually improving, so it may be worth waiting for a 350 mile range, or installing a home charger if you can.
If you do not have a home charger then getting an EV is probably pointless for you. Even on a 10 year tesla theyre still getting close to 300 miles in a charge to 100%...pretty good
@@isovideo7497and how do you know? It's a new battery with no history clown 🙄
@@hobo1704 Just so you know, companies can simulate battery life over many years by performing multiple charge cycles in a laboratory. This is called destructive testing and it's done by engineers for many products, including batteries, to find the fail points and fix them before the product goes to market. So just a small piece of advice, don't call people clowns when you don't know what you're talking about. It's a bad look.
@@Tom-dt4ic so previous "good" batteries are now bad even though they were tested? 🤣 Great theory champ..
This is supposed to be the norm. It looks like a huge crash because of the near extortionate level markups that plagued used markets. Those same dealers are now wondering why their 300% markup isn’t selling when manufacturers like Tesla, Lucid and Rivian are aggressively pushing their own stock both via finance and lease.
This is also not to mention lease incentive is huge. Leases are amazing deals for EVs right now. My Model 3 alongside a family member’s eTron costs less than what my previous BMW M340i costed in lease and yet if you cash out, the etron alone will easily outprice the 340i not even mentioning the Model 3. Combine that with lease positives like tax deduction, worry free maintenance, there really isn’t a reason to lease these mid-tier EVs.
It's why those car dealers want new laws to keep EV makers from selling direct to consumers. People are beginning to wake up what a ripoff car dealers are and dealers are realizing their future is dark.
Your m340i was an expensive car! C'mon, at least try to be honest.
@@bassandtrebleclefit’s cheap in the scene of what I’m comparing it to. It’s definitely not worth more than 2 vehicles, a small size sedan and a full size luxury suv.
It’s not just that prices are dropping. Overall EV sales are falling too.
Electrify America has been the main culprit for slowing down non Tesla EVs. You can't expect people to adopt a technology while the charging network is unreliable. The other brands are struggling for that very reason except Tesla because they own their network. Hopefully with the Nacs adoption, people would be more inclined to tolerate other brands.
Agree. I love my EVs and don’t like Tesla/elon. But I only rec Tesla just bc charging is so much easier.
Cash and credit card in person, no phone apps!
Electrify America works with Agero...Not surprising.
I charge at home. For apartment dwellers, Level 2s can be put in parking areas. Electrify America is for travelers mostly. I pay 23 cents a kwh at home charging off peak on the grid. Electrify America charges 48 cents a kwh. So the vast majority of your charging is at home off of your dryer outlet. Most EVs will fully charge overnight for under $20.
@@Herlongian Although that would be the ideal scenario, we all know some of these non Tesla EVs come with sub part range and when you are running errands or taking kids to soccer, that range depletes fast. I have an Etron that boast 215 miles range at 100%, 80% of that gets me 160 miles when I charge at home. In an emergency, the scarcity and lack of reliability of chargers make it so that we have a gas car. We can't second guess in the panic because charging at home takes about 5 hours to replenish my range. That's fine when you're sleeping. But in an emergency, I can't rely on Electrify America.
In 2022 EVs were selling well over MSRP. Even Tesla was selling the Model Y for $15k more than its original price. In late 2022, a used Model Y sold for more than a new one today. Model 3 owners were trading in their cars for essentially what they purchased them for in 2021. So any drop in used EV prices in 2023 just reflects the increased supply and the return of MSRP pricing.
MSRP does not typically apply to used vehicles because the value of a used car is going to vary widely based on age of the car; condition; mileage, etc. Resale value is the more appropriate metric here.
@@Marc-King777 It's a good indication if a used vehicle is sold above or around MSRP after a year or two of normal use. With most vehicles, you'd expect 15% or 20% value drop from the MSRP in the first year. Then another 10% to 15% the other year. The biggest drop would obviously be the first year, followed by second year, and then third year. This is accounting for normal wear (nothing is broken, everything is functional, etc.). If an EV is selling for MSRP or above MSRP, that means the demand is just that DAMN high. OP says that now the market is basically past the honeymoon phase where people are now starting to buy things based on the actual value.
New homes built should have NEMA 14-50 outlets that are 240v in the garage so you can do level 2 charging at home
Good thing is they are inexpensive to get installed and many local utilities will give you rebates for the install. I just got mine done and it was almost free.
As well as an in-garage sprinkler system and smoke detector.
It should be in the zoning. It literally adds about $100 to the cost of a new home if done during construction...or about 40 cents a month if rolled into a mortgage.
@@moose1485my employer paid $3000 to install one at my house. It's was very expensive for us.
I'd suggest changing the new home requirement to having the circuit installed - preferably to a hardwired EV charger or sealed off in a junction box for future install. EV charging is likely the most demanding electrical circuit in a home and the NEMA 14-50 was not designed for that purpose - either for safety or durability. A hardwired EV charger eliminates points of failure and can better monitor for poor or overheated electrical connections. The NEMA 14-50 was designed for ranges and was not meant to be left exposed or to be put under hours long maximum demand.
Several car renting companies are removing the EV cars from their rental vehicle fleet.
The two main reasons are low resale value and very cost for accident repairs!
Routine maintenance costs are low. But batteries repairs are expensive and body shop repairs are also expensive !
Talk to body repair shops and ask them about the availability of Tesla spare parts !!!
Nothing new. Every innovative product goes through this cycle.
When cars replaced horse wagons these were the exact issues we faced: costs, supply, reliability, technology, learning curve from all sides.
@RandomRads Haha, you compared an apple to an orange. You also forgot to mention roads, horses could go virtually anywhere, the horseles buggy couldn't do that.
That doesn't apply in this scenario.
Would you go to the store and buy a used battery? No didn't think so. I wouldn't touch a used EV. And current prices of EVs with their lack luster performance and practicality will have me holding on to my midsized pick up truck.
Ill wait for toyotas/ Fords 1000 mile solid state battery mid sized pick up truck under a full towing and payload. Tesla will die.
@@brandonsheffield9873 Everything dies at some point. Who cares!
All I know for sure is- For the next 10 years Tesla is definitely worth buying. Very reliable, high performance (455 hp), practical, safe, superior tech.
Battery costs are coming down.
I enjoy every bit of it. Also I love my Honda Pilot ;)
@u-jd2csThe tires of an EV will not last as long because EVs are heavy. That said tire wear is primarily affected by driving style.
@@GoldTau-jd2cs
People can have a strange behaviour!
Take a person who takes good care of his / her car, put him or her in a rented car, then you have a stock car driver!
Why .... ???
P.S. Car driver rages are not exclusively men! There are as many women as men !
It's weird that no one mentioned the soon-to-be-deprecated charging ports as one reason for the low demand outside of Tesla. The Nissan Leaf still uses CHAdeMO and the rest of the players have at least another year of using the CCS connected before they switch to the Tesla (NACS) port. It makes all the sense in the world to wait for the NACS charge port before buying from another manufacturer.
That's not the reason for low demand. The truth is no one wants EVs.
Tesla became the new 'BMW' wealth status symbol that's why it sells. No one wants 'mainstream' EVs
Because port adapters exist...
CCS to/from NACS is an easy (read “cheap”) adapter to make, as both sides speak the same language. It’s hardly a reason to wait for native NACS. This only leaves the Nissan Leaf out in the cold, as A CHAdeMO adapter would need a computer inside, making it prohibitively expensive. And this only applies to DC fast charging, as newer Leafs have an additional CCS style port for level 2 charging.
Also, the used market will have more 4-5 year old Tesla's due to customers getting out of them with warranty still in place and therefore having a higher residual value over a 6-7 year old EV. Consumers are anxious about getting an older EV due to battery replacement cost with that golden warranty getting close to running out. Warranty is a huge part of the risk with new technologies.
Most people who can afford an EV and want one already have one, so now more of the market are less wealthy drivers who can't justify the costs because the fuel/maintenance savings don't offset the high cost of purchasing one, even with rebates and lower resale values. Hybrid vehicles look much more promising in terms of affordability and reliability for the next 5-10 years until EV prices fall, not to mention you don't have to deal with range anxiety or charging.
Most that want and can afford already have one? Um, yeah ... ok.
And for those who wants EV, they are buying a driveway first. After real estate, EV will follow😂
Also resale value on Hybrid (any car) will be better as people will be familiar with them.
So you really think that the fastest growing segment (BEV) that is currently growing 30%+ every year, all of a sudden will drop to 0% growth, or lower?
@John101B absolutely not, I never said that lol. The EV segment is still growing and will continue to grow, just not as fast as it was previously, for the reasons I mentioned.
With more and more high tech in cars wonder if cars will seem “outdated” faster than before (like used cell phones)
This is definitely a goal of the car manufacturers. It's also one reason they're moving away from industry standard communications and entertainment protocols like Carplay and Android Auto to their own environments, to capture recurring revenue for services, not to mention data collection
There will be cycles might be 4-8 years
I still use my iPHONE 6S and it was one of Apple's best Iphones.
as long as they stick to regular rectangular 16:9 or 16:10 screens they will age better than previous generations of cars that seem ancient just 10 years in.
WRONG!
Most cellphones are the same. A better camera doesn't count as a better cell phone sorry apple and Galaxy fan boys/girls. lol.
. However, you're not supposed to change your car as much as you change your phone. Most cars are the same year to year they barely increase the mpg. If you're talking about technology you might have a point but in terms of mpg, safety, etc. from year to year its not drastic change. Even prius might have a gradual change from year to year in gas mileage. But I just google chevy bolt which is the best EV a average person can afford from 2017-2019 it still had the same gas range. But 2020 it went up 238 to 259 males of range.
I like a manual transmission, I find them fun. Rev matching my downshifts and heel and toe braking is awesome and it would be very hard for me to give it up for a car that sounds like a UFO.
Some of us like to buy cars that are over 10 years old to take full advantage of depreciation. I’d love to have an EV, the Cybertruck looks amazing, but I’m not paying full price for one and last time I check there were no large truck or suv electric vehicles being made in 2013… so, I’ll wait. The Ford Lightning seems to be dropping like a rock on the used market so that’s a good sign :)
I've wanted to purchase a hybrid or EV since 2008, but prices, range, and unknowns about battery life have led me to continue to buy just high mpg ICE's.
Toyota hybrids are proven no need to worry about the large battery until 15 years down the road.
If you can find a used Hyundai Ioniq 2018, 2019 Hybrid, for 12-15K Get it! Wife and I bought one brand new in 2019, she commutes one way 80 miles a day, we have gotten 50-60 MPG day in and out, with zero issues. Just tires, and standard vehicle maintenance. The car has about halfway paid for itself in saved fuel costs alone. Car has almost 150K miles on it now.
@@danielstewart7732 Don't buy Kia, Hyundai or Genesis products, they are the worst cars on the market right now. Terrible quality, awful design choices, dreadful failure rate. It would be better to just burn the money you have rather than spend them on a Hyundai Group car.
My 2018 Tesla Model 3 still gets 255-260 miles of range on the display when charged to 90%. Also, runs like it is brand new, and hasn't needed any maintenance except 12v battery replace and tire replacement. Not even a cabin filter change which I will is expected to take place in 6 year rotation.
Edit: Cabin filter should be changed every 2 years. I am not sure where I got 6 years, but somewhere along the way I picked up this misinformation and have been operating without cabin filter changes like I should.
How about those terrible panel gaps and the 20k battery replacements. Watch Rich Rebuilds, Common Sense Skeptic and Thunderf00t
Cabin filter replacement is very important.
It’s still a relatively new car tho lol
My camry, same years and miles, has needed oil changes (which I buy in packages of 3) and one transmission fluid change.
I got mine slightly used for 15k...the entire point of the article
Cabin filter every 6 years??? Do you also change your home HVAC filters every 6 years
It’s affordability and lots of misinformation that are hurting sales. I got an Ev to try. 8 people on my team of 9 at work flipped out. When I pressed for why they dislike them so much, they didn’t have an answer. No experience with them, nothing. Some were open to taking a ride and really liked it, some where indifferent, and others want even get in it. Like it’s some possessed creature. We have different spaghetti sauce, different toppings for pizza, why can’t we have different power sources for our car?
I still think pineapple has no place on pizza 😂
@@spicesmuggler2452 lol, exactly. I figured someone would chime in with the pineapple for pizza. :)
@@spicesmuggler2452 When someone talks the truth you're getting the topic out of the window and talking sh*t !
@@whatsay8406 When someone talks the truth you're getting the topic out of the window and talking sh*t !
People don’t like them because they can’t charge in the winter, low range, take a half hour to charge if the cables for the super chargers haven’t already been stolen and they are expensive to buy and to maintain. Nothing like Tesla’s bad build quality and to replace a battery costing 30 grand
Got my Tesla M3 in Jan 2022, was getting 6-7k over my msrp in April '22. And i bought at a fairly high price. 2022 was a year where used cars were more expensive, used EVs were more expensive than new cars. So in comparison '23 30% reduction makes sense. EV price mainly headed by Tesla are coming down in price for S3XY, if new cars are going to get cheaper, used car prices will go down as well. But if you buy a Tesla '24 model in Jan, and sell it in Feb, that's almost out of door depreciation, i feel some EVs might be the lowest depreciation. Overall i think prices coming down is a good thing, even though personally I won't be able to benefit if i sell my car, i want EVs to become commodity, and not something that people have to shell out extra for. We want the market to be buyers market.
Have you noticed all the Used Electric Cars sitting on car lots.? I drive alot up and down the CA. State, I've noticed a lot of EV showing up in these used car lots. I've even seen newer used 2023 models. That says it all, .. evidently not too many people like their EV . Looks like more are going back to Gas.
Most people sell their EVs because their batteries are failing from abuse...Battery degradation and Phantom drain ---- if you continue using the fast charge method you will increase speed at which your batteries degrade . You will start losing range at even a faster rate than normal resulting in more frequent charges and even more time lost and finally ... battery replacement and believe me, you don't want that $$$$$. The best way to explain Phantom Drain, ... it is like having a small hole in your gas tank with a constant drip or in this case EV. In other words , money down the drain.. EVs lose juice by just sitting for a period of time ( in the garage, driveways, street, etc)
All rechargeable batteries do.
Very good news, more people can afford used EVs if prices are falling.
Bad news: fewer people can afford expensive cars, new and used. Those who can afford an EV prefer to buy new. Those who can’t are looking into economy ICE cars below 20K rather than 30K used EV. You need to drive a lot of miles to break even on the cost difference between buying & running any EV and a cheap ICE vehicle.
Some of those on the tight budget do maintenance and minor repairs. While EVs are assumed to require fewer repairs, they do break down occasionally and a probability of failure increases with age of the EV. Then the only option is to go to the dealer and pay $$$. That puts off many of those DIY used car buyers.
Keep in mind, a used EV will have some potentially large costs coming depending on the mileage. I bought by normal ICE car in 2013 at 33Kmiles and it has gone over 100K miles with out any significant maintenance outside of normal wear and tear. The issue with EVs is that after a certain number of miles they do become relatively cheap as there is a battery replacement looming on the horizon. That can be $20-30K and may not be covered under warranty. That's a huge expense if you buy a car for 20-30k used.
@@ahastar1141 battery replacements are only a concern if you exclusively fast charge your car like a taxi (in which case you already made money on in) or if its a first generation EV or if its from GM. Battery replacements are not, and will not become a normal consideration for EVs.
@@h20dancing18 Battery replacements are a concern for anything with a battery. Batteries lose capacity over time and can fail. It's inescapable. My phone is only two years old and doesn't last as long as it used to. My gas car is two years old and hasn't lost any range. For a phone that's replaced every few years, it's annoying. For a car that costs many, many times more than a phone and is expected to last for at least a decade, it's a big concern.
Yep, that's how I bought my 2 EVs. Used.
My first one has over 145,000 miles on it. Probably not worth a lot now, but I plan to own it until I've got 320,000 miles, if I can make it.
Battery degradation is so fast, battery replacement is too expensive, as if charging speed is not inconvenient enough.
Too many issues
I bought a used Nissan leaf in 2018. At the time it was scary because the price was very low. I thought that there might be something wrong with it. But there was nothing wrong with it. It's an amazing car. The only difference is that my car had a low range. Newer electric cars have a much better range. If you have an outlet close enough to reach your car it's a perfect car for short range driving. Not good for long road trips.
But there are battery replacement options available now. Can change to a higher capacity battery
@@thilinarupasinghe7968 How many tens-of-thousands of dollars does that cost? lol...
This is basically my story exactly, except that it was 2019. What I haven't heard yet in this report is the amount of FUD being put out against EVs. Now that they're actually a threat to the oil industry, the FUD has been stepped up significantly and that's definitely depressing demand. Just about every non-EV owner I've spoken to recently had parroted some industry misinformation.
@@beefironThey aren't a threat to the oil industry because only 🐑 are buying EV's. I bought a used ICE car 2 years ago for 14,900 and never been happier. Fill up every 8 or 9 days in about 5 minutes and can continue traveling wherever I want to without any range anxiety. Love it. 👍👍
@@extremedrivr You mean you have to go to a service station to fill up? You can't generate your own fuel at home? I guess you enjoy being captive to the whims of OPEC 😂
I love the quality of the content on this channel.
The issue with used EVs is, that they are very often outdated. The technique is involving so fast, that buying a car that was built some three years ago, is - compared to the latest generation - outperformed in terms of charging time, assistant systems, and functionality. Also, these older cares were more expensive, so to compete with a new car, they can only be sold with a massive discount.
Nothing an update can't address
Nonsense, my 2019 Tesla gets updates and is not outdated whatsoever. People get in my car from ice vehicles and never seen the tech.
@@mostmost1@mostmost1 Well, as a Tesla driver, you are forgiven for thinking that a car is mainly soft- and not hardware. Enjoy your updates - and who knows, on one lucky day, even the assistant systems might at least be able to read traffic signs.
@@ThomasZadro kid Stop projecting your insecurities on others. I never said mainly software. We own more than one vehicle. Ev cars will not destroy cars on gasoline. The fearmongering is pitiful.
BTW It reads those signs now.
@@mostmost1 I am really glad that I have run just into another Tesla fanboy. Sure, your 2019 car is perfect.
Part of why EV Prices are falling so fast is because we aren't comparing apples to apples with prices. If I buy a $60k EV. I likely got a $7,500 tax credit for it. So the effective prices was really $52,500. Now 3 years later lets say that EV is worth $40k. That would be a 33% reduction from sticker. But a 23% drop in "effective" prices. I think that's a much more accurate way to measure it.
Tesla reducing costs is also a major factor. But I really think we aren't looking at the right metrics.
You also have to account for excessive price gouging that occurred in 2022. Even Tesla raised prices significantly in 2022, only to drop them back down to the original price in 2023. No one wants to talk about how used Teslas sold for more than a new can be purchased for today.The same with the Mustang Mach-E.
@@Cakebattered its not price gouging its supply and demand. It would be gouging if the market was being cornered. Dealers literally had zero supply.
@@Tttb95yes supply and demand but effect’s depreciation of said product. There was no caps on what dealers can markup causing a lot of people to have no choice but to keep there vehicles and wait till the loans expired since the vehicles are practically worthless/ upside down
@@williamerazo3921 Dealers cant set arbitrary prices and run profitable businesses. That isnt how this works. This is econ 101.
They had to mark them up because of a lack of supply and normal/heightened demand. Lets go back to our basic curves. What happens to equilibrium price as the supply curve shifts left?
Said another way, if dealers really had true pricing power (ie not driven by market forces), then why did they set prices so low and greatly reduce their profits for decades? That is nonsensical.
The main issue is the battery degradation
EV should be banned. I bought Bronco Sport Badlands 2.0L turbo and i am very happy with it. Very good car.
That won't kick in for at least a decade and up to 300,000 miles. Warranties cover it until then from most manufactures. That's not the issue
I agree the main issue is not battery degradation. I believe it’s because people listen to people talking about issues like battery degradation and refuse to do the research for themselves to separate fact from fiction. Whatever car you buy, do your research and make the best decision for you.
Actually the main issue is the traction battery has an 8yr/100,000mi warranty that can be voided by driving through a heavy rain storm as a Scottish couple recently found out. Getting caught in a flood can also void the warranty as many EV owners found out after a recent hurricane.
Add to that everything else on the car is only covered by a 4yr/50,000mi warranty. An out of warranty Tesla LED headlight replacement runs $1900. A 2020 Toyota Corolla LED headlight and bucket runs less than $200. If you know how to use a nut driver installation is free. If not you can take it to any one of a thousand mechanics to do the labor for about $100 more.
Out of warranty repair costs are going to make people start to shy away from the used EV market.
There will always be a core of EVangelist willing to follow their religion.
Nonsense there is no data to back up your claim.
"Maintenance costs are lower" ... until you have to shell out $15,000-$25,000 to have the batteries replaced.
The chance of that is extremely low. It's like worrying an ICE vehicle to have to replace the engine and transmission.
after 10 years on most of these its a guarantee. Even a minor fender bender will total the car. @@Trust_but_Verify
@@Trust_but_Verify😂😂😂 "Chances are low" I dont think you understand how batteries work.They wear out over time and wear out even if youre not using them. You can repair an engine but batteries are only replaceable.
I work in a shop and you would be surprised how close a battery replacement is to an engine. We did a battery swap on a model 3 and it was around 9k. The only reason the battery was replaced was because they hit a large rock. We did an engine replacement in a chevy eqinox because it lost oil pressure and that was around $7200. Most shops do not repair engines any more because it is not worth it.
@@noobjitsu1743 If manf. are smart they can make it so only damaged module can be replaced instead of whole thing. Given millions of EV so far the chances are low. I am only referring to Tesla. The other brands' longevity has not been established.
Something I'll add that makes them dangerous to be behind on the road is this stupid one pedal driving. I was behind a Tesla earlier today and it came to complete stop at a light with no sign of brake light until I was down to 5mph. Then they came on for about 10 seconds and off they went. The light was still red and we were on a downhill. The aggressive re-gen that allows 1 pedal driving is very unsafe. Brake lights are there to indicate to the person behind that you are slowing down. When you can go from 35mph to 5mph with no brake lights in half a blocks distance with no brake lights is absurd. the brake lights should come on as soon as you take your foot of the go pedal if you have re-gen activated.
My ev6 brake light comes on when the regen slows down the car regardless of whether I'm in one pedal mode. No brake lights during regen must just be a tesla thing?
Being an Audi etron owner who’s currently selling my vehicle, I can safely say once the warranty has ended sell up because repair costs are through the roof.
You wouldn't buy a used battery, .. would you?
You would in a hybrid ... so what different does that make in the end?
If it still had 94% charge and was less than new? Yes, yes I would.
@@Plisken65. Batteries are chemical systems. They age regardless of use, and their final moments are characterized by rapid decline. The batteries in EVs are identical to the ones in your phone and laptop, just bigger.
I will only buy an EV that is capable of battery swapping.
@@stephenogrady267 Which EV’s on the market today are incapable of having their batteries replaced?
The new Edsel!
Do you know why there's low resale value for an EV? Because replacing those batteries costs a fortune. Replacing engine parts in an ICE is far cheaper even if its a full engine than a new battery in an EV.
It was over 10k to replace an engine in a pickup for a Ram these days (at least that was the estimate for one of our law enforcement vehicle replacement quotes in the paper).
My friend has a Porsche cayenne hybrid that is only a few years old and has about 8000 miles on it. He can only get about 8 miles on a charge now so it needs a new battery. The new battery is over $25k. Maybe this is another reason for falling used car prices.
I’ve considered buying a used EV however I’m deterred by the battery issue. When it’s time to replace it - the cost is 5x a new transmission. And who knows how worn out it is by the time you get it? Also.. what is the process to have it replaced? A lot of unknowns.
How long would it take you to put 300k miles on the car to worry about battery replacement?
@@Trust_but_Verify Battery warranty is only 100,000 miles. Rapid charging causes faster battery degradation.
@@stephenogrady267 I don't supercharge much. 78k miles only need to do it 3 times. Model 3/Y long range warranty for battery is 120,000 miles/8 years. Might have a difference with Uber driver on EV that needs to supercharge daily.
I only drive a few thousand miles a year. It makes no sense for me to own an EV
Why would you buy a Used battery?
????? Nobody wants a used battery!!
Why would you buy a used engine?
@@Plisken65because they don't all of a sudden stop and have a $20k price to fix muppet..
@hobo1704 what is your statistics that they just stop? Come on man, think and stop just saying stuff
@@hobo1704Idk I've owned plenty of vehicles where the engine just died and the estimated replacement cost was 6-9k
@@madrigale6396 not my fault you buy junk cars or can't maintain vehicles.
I think investing more in hybrids until the charging networks gets better is the way to go. No charger, use gas, if a charger is available use the battery and save the gas. Hybrids just make more sense for the next 10-15 years.
I think Toyota and Honda agree. They've gone all-in on hybrids and only offer an EV compliance car as required.
My ideal market would be EVs for those who want one, PHEVs for those who want to do daily driving on electric but have the range and convenience of gas for trips, and hybrids for everyone else. I can't plug in at home so an EV doesn't make sense for me.
Who wouldn't prefer a vehicle that can use two fuel sources
@@bwofficial1776I agree with this take 👍🏽 gj
@@bwofficial1776no they have not gone all in on hybrids. Prius is not supported like it was in the past. They make you wait months to get them. Rav 4 prime has a long wait list. Toyota doesn't make enough of them and the dealership marks up the price.
For some people in some applications they may be a viable solution but the inherent problem of hybrids is the complexity of having redundant power sources. Unless they are PHEV they don't benefit from low cost electric range. This combined with data that shows many people use them simply as hybrids negates any advantage.
Something not mentioned is that prior to 2022, used EV's typically costed more than new due to waiting lists and demand. Until recently Model 3's and Model Y's in the used marked costed $5k to $15k more than new off Tesla's website.
I bought a Kia Niro EV 3.5 years ago. I am saving roughly $3000 a year in fuel costs vs the ICE car it replaced. I haven't had any oil changes, and I won't need to do engine air filters or spark plugs EVER. Brake pads now last 100-130k miles between changes. No radiator to boil over. I'm also much a much calmer driver because there's no noise or vibration while driving, and no fumes leaking into the cabin to worry about. If I had to charge my car on the street, it would be a problem, but I don't - I have a home and a garage. Additionally my office building has a few free-to-use charging hookups as well for the tenants. I realize that there are several cases where an EV doesn't work (driving 300 mi every day, live in an apartment and park far from the actual residence, etc) but if you're in a house with electricity and need a new car in 2023/2024 I think you would be foolish to not consider an EV.
The bigger problem is assaults at charging stations. Only 3-7% of these assaults get reported…especially for cross country travelers. Unlike gas stations, there is absolutely no security at EV charging stations. Often they are located in areas behind shopping centers which are obscured from public view your chances of getting robbed or assaulted while charging are exponentially higher than filling up at a gas station.
Let's see some data. Think this is a manufactured problem. Maybe I should quote some made up stat about catching some deadly disease from gas station bathrooms.
Most of the charging places I've seen are in public places that tend to have a lot of traffic like gas stations and restaurants or at malls, I haven't seen many abandoned the way you described
Buying a used EV is basically like buying a used battery.
The Battery is where the value is most of the cars are worth nothing except for the batteries - who in their right mind would buy a used battery ?
So what, buying a used ICE car is buying a used engine and transmission.
@@richardcalon3724 Go find your shepherd 🐑🐑🐑
For me buying a used EV has one big question, How the maintenance was done, and the battery life. Need more time for consumers to see how these cars will age.
And definitely, the price cut on the new Tesla pressured the price of the same product but used. The design is the same and the software is updated so it is a no-brainer that you need to cut the prices on the used ones.
What maintenance are you referring to that would affect value?
For real @robertgary3561 I'm not aware of any specific cost, but it is a natural law, if move it can be broken, if any problem in the eletrical engine or any other part only the manufacture can fix, this is a problem for "stantard" car buyers.
I think we need more time or more content to be more aware of the hiden costs of this type of car.
Just my point of view.
Battery swapping solves the range and battery life anxiety issues.
10:33
This is something that needs to be discussed. If you have an outlet outside your house, you can charge your car.
You don't need anything fancy.
I think its still that fear of having to replace a battery after 10 or so years. I keep my vehicles forever and my 1990 chevy still has the original engine and transmission in it. I have a old lithium battery drill that is about 12 years old and the battery still seems to work fine, a lot of people buy new cars and trade them in every 5 years so for those people there is no worry
I have several old ICEs. When one dies I will get 1 EV so I have no range worry because I can drive a different car every day. I appreciate Tesla dropping prices and competing with traditional dealers. Hopefully prices go down for all vehicles.
You'll likely just stick driving EV because operating cost is 1/3 of gas.
@@Trust_but_Verify Great info. Most of my driving is city so I look forward to EV. Thanks
The prices are falling because people don’t like wasting money on pieces of sh%t
Are you sure about those maintenance costs or did you just get that info from Tesla’s marketing arm? I ask because apparently someone reviewed a Tesla after having a dingle. They couldn’t just get the bumper beaten out or just replace the bumper, they had to pay a ridiculous amount and have a portion of the chassis replaced. Apparently you can’t just get the brake pads changed, you have to get a whole new tyre kit and you can’t just go to your generic tyre dealer either. From what I’ve heard, the cost price of a Tesla is one thing then the running costs are astronomical although the fuel costs less than combustion engines.
PS although I live in Australia so that will, inevitably, have the “Australian tax” added, just like last time when I looked at Adobe Photoshop etc. The USA version was a few hundred, the Australian version was close to $1500.
@@DarkMatterZine Not sure where you got the brake pad story from - you can replace them yourself or at your local mechanic people do it all the time, there is nothing special about them. You can have tyres put on anywhere no issue, you just need to instruct the shop how to lift the car using lifting pucks.
If a part chassis replacement was required that will be related to a structural / safety issue, no problem ensuring safety and compliance regulations are in place.
I spent $22k on my Audi A4 over 4 years and 80,000km on maintenance and fuel. So far after almost a year and 23,000km I have spent $770 - total.
Gas prices go up and down , Electric prices just go Up and Up and will continually go Up at a fast rate
0:45 , ma man explained it in one line.
Two things impacts - Reduction in Battery capacity after few years .
Addition of new features added to new card due to Rapid change in tech
most ppl dont realize battery replacement cost around $20k
It makes sense if you think of them like the smartphone prices. The new ones will command premium, then value drops significantly when new ones come on the line....because they have built-in obsolescence in the non-swappable batteries that, when they need to be replaced, make up almost half the price of the vehicle....
Is there a company that builds EVs with swappable batteries?
@@stephenogrady267 There needs to be one...but to be most effective, industry needs to establish standardized battery system...so that it's not limited to one car company.
Should I be documenting my negotiations with car dealers while trying to get an EV? I’ve been counting their inventories and bringing that up as a reason why I need them to do better on price….it’s a waiting game and I’m not giving up until I get a crazy deal.
And the cost to replace the battery???
5k to 20k
A used EV is a big risk given the cost of a new battery pack. Two years ago, I bought a used 2000 Honda. The engine, transmission, and frame were in excellent condition, no seal damage, no problems. My wife has put another 50,000 miles on that care with only the usual maintenance for brakes, clutch, etc, none of which as even begun to approach the cost of a new battery pack. The car is 23 years old. I am skeptical we will see any of these new EVs reaching 24 years old and still being on the road.
I think these EVs were designed to be throw away cars, They want everyone paying car payments or leasing forever. Why make a long lasting car with easy to swap batteries if you can just sell them. new one
My 2006 accord is going strong and I paid $4200 for it in 2019.
Exactly, no one will want to buy a 10yr+ used EV.
Used ICE can still go on for a long time with no $20k battery replacement worries
This is why Toyota rav 4 prime is the best car. It was already the best selling suv but the prime can go 40 miles on a charge so great for local commutes in smaller cities and suburbs. Once again, Toyota has made all the right moves.
Doesn’t explain why I can’t buy one in my RHD market. I can’t buy ANY Toyota PHEV before Q1 2025 at the earliest
Because replacing a battery costs an arm and a leg. Few mechanics want to work on them because they fear for their lives. Manufacturers have poor support!
The only EVs I would buy today are MHEVs. Unless I had the solar and a commute to justify short-term leasing.
5:16 this quote is far too true. Everyone is fast to blame EVs as "flawed" but in reality they are just improving faster than anything in the history of the automobile. Turns out this impacts the used and new market, A LOT.
All prices were up during covid, but EVs were much higher across the board. Teslas were especially high during that time, which is why their huge cuts in prices are impacting costs of all other EVs. Why would I got and buy a used ‘22 ford when I could go and buy a new ‘23 Tesla for the same amt before factoring incentives
Because Ford is an actual car company that makes quality cars lol
@@CS-pl8fcwhen has Ford ever been known for making quality cars? Maybe the Model T? Lmao
@@MylesV laughing at your own ignorance is petty rich.
Maybe EV sales are down because we're in a horrible high interest rate market where wages are not keeping up with inflation and 80% of Americans can barely afford housing and buying an EV might not be the highest priority. This is all macros, nothing to do with EVs. Everyone knows EVs are the future, it's just hard to drop $90K on a new EV when your old gas beater works just fine, for now.
True. And new ICE vehicles aren’t cheap either. Everything is just so expensive now
No
Don’t say that!
Then the oil companies that sponsored this video will get mad.
I think the problem is reliability and the potential for high repair costs when the expensive components begin to fail. Also people may not have the luxury of a second car if their primary transport breaks down so it needs to be fixed quickly which is currently not always the case.
1 costly repair or a hundred smaller repairs plus regular maintenance? I think in time the equal out between EV and ICE.
@jamesp8459 What smaller repairs are gou doing for ICE? What maintenance? The 50-100$ oil change?
Ev drivers some how think that their cars dont use brake pads, ac system, stering system, etc.
The tires wear out much faster due to weight and high acceleration. How come that wasn't mentioned when he said that there are fewer repairs? Those tires aren't cheap.@@HIDHIFDB
The general population has figured out, that for some reason it doesn't make sense to pay 15-20K for a used EV, that will soon require an 20K battery replacement.. they have literally created a disposable car. That generates 70% MORE CO2 waste in its production, than an ICE car. that has a pretty much fixed 10-12 year life span. The entire EV market is fueled by rich people who can afford a 3rd or fourth that can be replaced every 4-5 years, and one that doesn't need to be dependable, as a single car family requires. There is NOTHING green about EV's.. and they have nothing to do with Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.
Prices are still too damn high. My local Kia dealer has an EV9 for just over $75k USD and PHEV Sportage for $48k USD with zero options. You will NEVER get the PHEV premium back in saved fuel or residential value. The EV9 will be worth close to nothing in ten years, so you will never save that $75k in fuel or maintenance costs. Especially when you factor in higher insurance rates and more frequent tire changes. With my ICE the tires have been by far the highest expense. Replacing them 20-50% more often due to the extra weight negates a lot of running costs savings.
Interest rates up, gas prices eased, Tesla price cuts and charging network issue for non-Telsa EVs. Rising electricity rates for many or at least in my area. They have pushed about 3-4 rate increases in about 14 months. Saw many posts of long lines during Thanksgiving travels for EVs. A new battery technology could crush the used market too if it was a great deal better. I like EVs, but they are still a bit risky. Hybrid and Plug-in hybrid are the better options for the average person in my opinion.
Hybrids are the way.
Look for horror stories on EVs and Hybrids batteries .....
New company moved into my state and rates went up 50+% on electricity. Soo..gas for me.
Toyota is right again. Hybrids>EVs
I have two problems with purchasing an EV. One, no charging station nearby. I live in an apartment complex so charging at home is not an option and the nearest charging station is 20 miles away. Also I'm concerned about resale value. While they are high now I wouldn't want to buy a used EV with a decreased battery life. Changing the batteries in EVs is massively expensive - as much as $20K depending on the vehicle. It wouldn't be cost effective to spend tens of thousands on a used vehicle only to spend another tens of thousands a 1-2 years later on a battery change. Ultimately this is the same product track that flat screen TVs took. The tech was new and expensive but over time it fell and now they are reasonably priced. So maybe we just wait.
As an EV owner, I agree that not having a dedicated place to plug in where you live or work is definitely a problem, and I wouldn't recommend one in that case. The battery replacement cost concern is very overblown though. The current packs far outlast the typical age of cars on the road, and when they do get old, it's not like they stop working (like a gas car), they just don't go as far. If something did happen where you needed to replace the pack 10 years down the road, you also don't need to pay the cost of a new one if you don't like, you can get one salvaged from a junkyard etc, the same way most people keep 10+ year old cars on the road now if they need major engine components
@@jomeyqmaloneaccurate assessment. I also didn’t know batteries today outlast the car. And as for charging, landlords and retailers can make money selling electricity. Very soon you won’t need dedicated charging areas as electricity will be in almost every parking space.
Right, the nice thing about electric chargers is they don't have all the HAZMAT measures required for gas stations and so can be installed practically anywhere.
As for wiring it, I'd say we explore development of the hardware needed to make much cheaper aluminum cables safe to install -- it can't be too difficult since that's what all the high voltage lines use already.
As an EV owner I understand and can appreciate your problem. To be honest no great solution for apartment complexes at this time and having to drive 20 miles is a non starter. As per resale I wouldn't worry as even the early Model S seem to be holding up pretty well and we will see how the market settles as most of the early Model 3 starting hitting the used market in mass. One option you should consider is if your employer begins to offer charing in the parking lot then it can be a good enough option. Every year there are more and more level 2 style charing solutions so I suspect the 20 mile distance you have now will significantly shrink.
@@jomeyqmalone There is one notable exception to the good battery longevity: the Nissan Leaf. Because it's short range and air-cooled, the battery degradation happens in far fewer miles.
I own a Tesla. I charge at home with my solar panels. I save $500/month on electricity and gas. I can not control healthcare costs but can control energy cost. My Tesla is 6 years old only maintenance, tires. Never visited service center. No oil filters in land fills. USA use to cheap electricity. That will change. Europeans can not believe USA does not have more energy conservation. Hawaii over 30% renewable energy primarily from private residential rooftop solar.
Just don’t get into an accident. The cost of repair will deplete all savings 😢
@@prettypenny2353Don't most people have insurance for that? Sure, most people don't intent to get into accident but why would you worry so much about repair cost during big accidents?
@@prettypenny2353go do your homework kid
Another EV guy that didn’t pay for his solar panels, which were probably manufactured by slave labor Uyghers!
@@John101Bsimple: aluminum alloy does not distort under impact very well, it fractures. A simple fender bender can completely total one.
What about high interest rates? New cars used to be around 3.25%. Now with good credit rates are 8.25%? That’s doubling monthly payments for cars that are 50% higher than an ice car. So what consumers used to spend $500 per month - those payments went to $900 or $1200 per month. Which is crazy.
Ben hybrid tarafındayım kesinlikle .. Şu an elektrikli araç kullanan arkadaşlara bir sorum var ? Araçlarınızı ne kadar süre kullanmayı ve bu süre sonunda ne kadarlık zararla elden çıkartmayı göze alıyorsunuz ? Bugün günümüzde satışta olan bir elektrikli aracı 5 sene sonra 100bin km olarak alma riskine kaç kişi girer ? Hasarlı yada arızalı elektrikli araçlara verilecek hizmet için yeteri kadar servis ve yetişmiş eleman varmıdır?
Çok haklısın.
Onun için kesinlikle Nio alman lazım. Battery değişebiliyor.
I got an 8 year model s p85d. I used to get 255miles per charge. Now, I get 140 miles doing 70 mph on autopilot.
If you think that's due to battery degradation, be sure to take advantage of the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty provided by Tesla, which guarantees 70% capacity during that time
@@jomeyqmalone Is that warranty transferable to subsequent owners?
I have plenty of issues with EVs. Primarily, I park on the street so charging at home isn’t convenient. I also know people who lose battery and range in the winter. The cars can’t charge as fast in the winter. In addition, the range they come with isn’t confidence inspiring. And lastly(and possibly most importantly), as they get older and their batteries degrade, the range, that wasn’t great to begin with, gets even lower. So, if I get a Chevy bolt and it has 270 miles of range on a good day when it’s new, what is that going to look like on a cold day seven years from now? Most likely the usable range is going to be something like 110 miles. That really doesn't work for me.
1. I can't charge an EV from my apartment. 2. Batteries degrade
if you have a powerpoint, you can charge your EV.
If you spend some $ to upgrade your switchboard, you can charge your EV.
You can't fuel your ICE car at home, yet you expect your EV to be able to fuel at home.
Think for a sec @MathewTaylor. I can spend 5 minutes and get gas, half a mile from home. I have to go to the city for a charger & it takes unrealistically long to charge. Installing a chargepoint is a silly expense you can't expect used buyers to front, and I don't think you understand apartments. I'm not allowed (Common for renters) to make major modifications to my electrical system plus It would be incredibly rude to install a 500 foot extension cord to a parking lot in 16 peoples walk way@@MatthewTaylorAu.
I'm getting a 2019 Mx5 for about what a used model 3 goes for, partly cause I think it'll be cheaper on maintnence and more practical long term. My new job actually has a charging station in the lot, but not my lot, that's an anomoly cause the boss has an ev, and i'm not doing the extra walk. When I graduate to a owned home I may reconsider. You do not NEED to fill your gas car at home (You literally could if you wanted buy a jug) you NEED to charge your EV at home (Which is why people are willing to buy charge points)@@MatthewTaylorAu
At 3:32 the "52-days of dealer EV inventory" (as of Jan, and 97 days as of Oct) only accounts for
One HUGE problem with EV's is that a lot of people are renters. Where does a renter charge their car when they may not even have a reliable parking spot? You can't just install a suitable charging outlet in your apartment, especially if you don't live on the first floor. And with Wall Street conspiring to make just about everyone a renter it will only get worse.
EVs will ruin the used car market. No one will want a 10yr+ used EV that will need a $20k battery replacement.
Well maintained used ICE 10yr+ can still last a very long time.
But less well maintained ICE vehicles not so well. Same as EVs.
@@keithwiebe1787 My point is there is no such thing as a 'well maintained' used EV because batteries WILL degrade over time even it was hardly driven regardless. No one will want to buy an old EV
@@Argedis I'm not sure if that's true. NCA batteries are rated at 1500 cycles before failure, which on a Tesla Model 3 converts to up to about 300,000 miles, with a highly conservative 200 mile full charge estimate. Can ICE vehicles make it that far? Yeah for sure, but do they retain value that far? Absolutely not. Once you pass 120,000 miles, ICE cars are dirt cheap unless they're collectors items.
@@kylebender5019 Used EVs drop FAR more in value compared to ICE because of inevitable battery replacement costs. Also if govt keeps forcing EV transition then demand/value for ICE will only go up
All good - I’m a 26 y/o and saving for my first Tesla 💪 I’m sure there’s are lot of others like me
I’m looking for a non-Tesla EV right now
Because replacing the battery costs more than the car is worth
This is random, but I like this narrator the most for videos. And the music is also on point.
I've noticed being on my second EV that the battery wears fast at first and then levels out. If your used EV works for you now it will also work for you in 5, 7, maybe 10 years. I mean the original HV battery on my 2007 hybrid is still good.
The only EV that I have been interested in owning is the Aptera, a truly revolutionary vehicle, not just another car with an electric drive train.
2022 was insane.
I bought an EV in july 2019, and sold it in sept 2022 for 86% of what I bought it for.
So you still lost money?
I sold a 2019 Honda accord and made $10k from carmax...
Plus the batteries Explode!!
Supply is high? And price correction?
For those who don’t mind the various higher costs of ownership and inconvenience of road trips and they can charge at home, and don’t mind owning something that depreciates so rapidly, EVs are fine. But the EV demand has leveled off already, there’s no denying it.
Buyer beware 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Falling prices still wont get me to buy an e.v.
Can wait to get my first EV. I plan to keep a gas or hybrid vehicle as well, at least until charging is no longer a concern
We made the jump to an EV a few months ago. If you can charge at home, charging is not a concern.
If they manage to make one that is fun to drive then I'd consider it, but that doesn't seem like it's a priority for any manufacturer.
🐑
@CS-pl8fc , have you teat drove any? The Teslas and Ford Mach e are a hoot. I love gas and diesel as much as the next guy, but the EV experience is nothing to sleep on. Some EVs are a joke, but some gas cars are too haha.
@@danielhonas334 I have and they are not fun in the slightest. Heavy, soft cars with vague and light electric steering. Hearing you describe them as "a hoot" makes me completely devalue your opinion.
Driving a 20 year old Miata is infinitely more fun.
How much are those batteries?
An eight year old Tesla Model 3 sells for about $22,000 in the Portland Oregon area. But knock off $15,000 for battery replacement unless the battery has just been replaced. Make an offer of $5,000 to $7,000 and the seller should be happy to get that much.
Plug-in hybrids seem like the perfect middle ground for average commuters and occasional roadtrippers, if your local electric infrastructure is good enough to justify the higher maintenance fees. Too bad so many of the early favorites got scrapped in favor of EV lines, though.
Toyota was right
I would have sprung for a plug-in hybrid if they had been more affordable and available. Although I am hearing that gasoline/diesel-electric hybrids (as in electric-driven, ICE only turns a generator like on trains and ships) is being explored.
With hybrids, you are paying for 2 technologies to do the same thing. In EV mode, it has to lug around an ICE engine and gasoline and in ICE mode, it has to carry a huge unused battery. I don’t know the specs, but it makes no sense if they are competitive with either ICE only or pure EV.
I think it makes sense for folks in remote areas still but otherwise no. For most the times when a hybrid is really needed is low occurrence.
@@TheBooban The flip side is that hybrids, as far as I know, can be lighter than traditional EVs because they don't have to put as many batteries in (because, if you run out of electric power, you can just switch to gas mode). I think the Chevy Volt (hybrid) used to be only $2k more than a Chevy Bolt (EV), which isn't trivial on a $30k class car but isn't much more than the cost of a different paint color. At this point, I think the engine drive train cost has been optimized so much that it can be added in relatively cheaply, while for EVs a ton of R&D still has to go into bigger and more efficient batteries that won't just fail on you when it's cold.
Prices are falling because no one wants those expensive pieces of sh*t.
I would buy an EV if I could afford one. And I think I can afford one if the manufacturers didn't try to force onto me some fancy technology and paraphernalia. I just need a car that can reliably and safely take me from point A to point B. That shouldn't be too expensive
The issue isn’t affordability in my opinion, people spend way too much on ice vehicles too. What People are afraid of is what happens your battery pack needs to be replaced? Sure if it’s under warranty it’s free but when it’s not every day is one step closer to a new $15,000 battery pack.
Battery swapping is the answer.
@@stephenogrady267 won’t happen here in the United States, everyone is dead set on charging
It's really important to consider the borrowing Factor and that borrowing costs for people have gotten rather expensive recently. It's possible also that with competing new models being released by Legacy audio makers this year and upcoming years that some people want something other than Tesla and want to just see how these new model vehicles perform. Case in point, the new eqe and eqs Mercedes. I'm not a fan of German engineered Vehicles because of the reliability issues but electrification may change that for me but I want to see how they perform up to and Beyond 100K miles before I ever buy one. Plus the price point is a barrier for not just me and other people
Who will pay tue price for preplacement of those battery