I truly doubt KayPro (or anyone else for that matter) “entered the personal home computing market” in 1951, as you clearly stated at 0:30. Your timeline is off by 30 years.
Kaypro, originally started as "Non Linear Systems", They were founded in 1952 by Andrew Kay, the inventor of the digital voltmeter. This is probably the basis of the confusion. In 1981, they began working on a computer project know as Kaycomp which was intended to become a competitor to the then popular Osborne. Eventually this resulted in the original Kaypro 2 computer.
My ninth grade computer science teacher always told us to reseat chips first thing when trouble shooting old Computers was the problem 75% of the time. This was in the 90's so he went to college in the 70's and also talked about early magnetic memory and how truly groundbreaking the first hard drives (washing machine size in with 1000s KB's capacity) we're. We've truly come foward light years!
I enjoyed this a lot. I enjoy following the logic that you used in troubleshooting. Back in the early nineties, when faced with flakey problems, the first routine steps were to reseat any socketed chips, which were mostly dip memory chips. They not only oxidize, but seem to "walk" out of the sockets a bit as well. Pushing down on them alway gave that comforting crunch sound.
This model, the 1984 Kaypro 4 Plus 88 is actually relatively rare as it was a "bridge" model intended to bridge a short time gap between the CP/M based models Kaypro had been making, and the MSDOS based Kaypro 10, Kaypro 16 and Kaypro 2000 which were also released in 1985 making the Kaypro Plus 88 redundant.
BTW: Thank you! My first "real" computer was a Kaypro (a clone, not a luggable) and I lived in San Diego where they are from, so I was a huge Kaypro fan, but did not know of the +88 that could run both CP/M and DOS until this video. I'm going have to find one of those for our museum!
Tandy 1000 lacks a dma controller unless you have a particular memory expansion card installed. Usually not an issue with software that uses bios to access the drives, but stuff that tries to dig deeper can be a problem iirc. I think I have a ram+dma card for the 1000 somewhere if you need it.
Thanks Lee! This 1000 had a hard disk so it does have the memory expansion w/DMA. I assume ImageDisk and TeleDisk are both trying to do some lower level access whereas Convert isn't. I'll try another non-Tandy system and see where that gets me.
Kaypro 10 was named as such because it had the option of a 10 MB hard drive. It was the last Kaypro CP/M machine and the only one with that capability.
Of course, the term "luggable computer" came along after laptops were born and recognized as truly portable. Until then, the Kaypro's, Osborne's, Corona 's were considered the "portable computers".
11:21 - "Massive disk storage" Well it's got nothing on the 1MB 8 inch floppies but it beats a lot of home computers of the time. Even a double-sided DD 5 inch floppy was usually only 360K. Commodore's 1541 and Apple Disk-II were single side drives with 170K and 140K per side respectively... Really depends on the point of comparison
Yea, for sure it depends on where you're coming from. By the time this machine came out in 1985, PC XTs (and even Kaypro 10 apparently) had 10 MB HDD options and the Atari ST and Amiga had just come out and 3.5" drives were becoming the norm. But since this is marketing literature, it's not surprising they'd be a bit boastful.
By "Largest computer company", you mean the most successful and/or widely used, not the makers of the largest sized computers. There was a point, if Kaypro had not resisted changing to DOS, they could have likely remained the most popular computer.
Why not both 😁 Yeah, it's fascinating how single decisions can shape the entire course of the industry. By the same token, if Gary Kildall had negotiated with IBM to make CP/M the standard OS for the IBM PC, Digital Research could have been where Microsoft is today.
Neck damage from looking at the machine at unnatural angles for long periods of time aside, I don’t want to know what kind of damage could be done to your back, spine, and shoulders from trying to carry around this 26 pound behemoth of a machine.
I truly doubt KayPro (or anyone else for that matter) “entered the personal home computing market” in 1951, as you clearly stated at 0:30. Your timeline is off by 30 years.
Hah, you are correct I meant to say 1981. I have no idea how that slipped through. Someone needs to fire my editor and QA team!
@@retrobitstv No problem. It’s still an enjoyable video, as all of your videos are. 👍
Yeah, I don’t think they had computers in the 1950s! 😂😂😂
And if they did, they were ridiculously primitive and took up the space of an entire room.
Kaypro, originally started as "Non Linear Systems", They were founded in 1952 by Andrew Kay, the inventor of the digital voltmeter. This is probably the basis of the confusion. In 1981, they began working on a computer project know as Kaycomp which was intended to become a competitor to the then popular Osborne. Eventually this resulted in the original Kaypro 2 computer.
Glad you were able to connect. I know its found a great home.
Hi Ethan, thanks so much for the referral!
My ninth grade computer science teacher always told us to reseat chips first thing when trouble shooting old Computers was the problem 75% of the time. This was in the 90's so he went to college in the 70's and also talked about early magnetic memory and how truly groundbreaking the first hard drives (washing machine size in with 1000s KB's capacity) we're. We've truly come foward light years!
I enjoyed this a lot. I enjoy following the logic that you used in troubleshooting. Back in the early nineties, when faced with flakey problems, the first routine steps were to reseat any socketed chips, which were mostly dip memory chips. They not only oxidize, but seem to "walk" out of the sockets a bit as well. Pushing down on them alway gave that comforting crunch sound.
I will definitely start with reseating the chips *first* next time!
I saw the first Kaypro at the West Coast Computer Fair in 1981. After that every time I looked at an Osborne screen it was like looking at a postcard.
This model, the 1984 Kaypro 4 Plus 88 is actually relatively rare as it was a "bridge" model intended to bridge a short time gap between the CP/M based models Kaypro had been making, and the MSDOS based Kaypro 10, Kaypro 16 and Kaypro 2000 which were also released in 1985 making the Kaypro Plus 88 redundant.
So cool, Matt! I did not know of this dual-CPU/dual OS model of Kaypro.
Me either! Thanks to the generosity of strangers, we are all a bit more enlightened now :)
BTW: Thank you! My first "real" computer was a Kaypro (a clone, not a luggable) and I lived in San Diego where they are from, so I was a huge Kaypro fan, but did not know of the +88 that could run both CP/M and DOS until this video. I'm going have to find one of those for our museum!
Pretty neat machine! I wonder if the Kaypro disks would also be readable / writable on a Commodore 128 and 1571 in it's CP/M mode...
I am 100% going to try this in Part 2 :)
I never realized that the screen was the same size as that on the classic Macintosh!
Tandy 1000 lacks a dma controller unless you have a particular memory expansion card installed. Usually not an issue with software that uses bios to access the drives, but stuff that tries to dig deeper can be a problem iirc. I think I have a ram+dma card for the 1000 somewhere if you need it.
Thanks Lee! This 1000 had a hard disk so it does have the memory expansion w/DMA. I assume ImageDisk and TeleDisk are both trying to do some lower level access whereas Convert isn't. I'll try another non-Tandy system and see where that gets me.
What a cool artifact. I’d never heard of this before.
I always thought these were pretty cool CP/M systems, Nice video and good save on the dual drives.
I remember when these came out and they seemed like the ultimate machine, mixing CP/M and MS DOS. Good times.
Nice, i had the Kaypro II
It's beautiful .
I actually got to play with one of those back in the good old days! Loved -- love the industrial all-business design.
Kaypro 10 was named as such because it had the option of a 10 MB hard drive. It was the last Kaypro CP/M machine and the only one with that capability.
400K was 'massive' when 320x200 was 'high resolution'.
Of course, the term "luggable computer" came along after laptops were born and recognized as truly portable. Until then, the Kaypro's, Osborne's, Corona 's were considered the "portable computers".
Yep, the Kaypro naming conventions were definitely cooked up by a committee!
"World's Largest" - was that based on sales or size of the case?
"Yes" ;)
Hi there, great overview of the Kaypro! Can you post links to the software used to write cp/m images? Thanks!
Thanks! I'll add links for the software I used to the description right now.
It’s probably loading the BIOS from ROM and the BDOS from disk
If you aren’t familiar with CP/M then that probably doesn’t sound extraordinary
Hey. You are coming to Tandy Assembly 2022, right?
First I've heard of it, will check it out!
@@retrobitstv Springfield OH. Sept 30-Oct 2. At the Marriott.
1951...we were still using tubes. But I know you meant 1981.
Hah yea, I guess I was thinking of when Non-Linear Systems was founded, not when Kaypro was spun off. Alas too late to fix it now!
@@retrobitstv Ain't no thang! :D
It should also be #CPMay
guess what
Thumbs down for the \we of WD40.
Gaypro
Excellent video! Users must have been easy to spot back then. Just look for the guy with a huge right arm and terrible posture.
Hah, two ways to injure your neck: transporting the machine AND using it!
11:21 - "Massive disk storage"
Well it's got nothing on the 1MB 8 inch floppies but it beats a lot of home computers of the time. Even a double-sided DD 5 inch floppy was usually only 360K. Commodore's 1541 and Apple Disk-II were single side drives with 170K and 140K per side respectively... Really depends on the point of comparison
Yea, for sure it depends on where you're coming from. By the time this machine came out in 1985, PC XTs (and even Kaypro 10 apparently) had 10 MB HDD options and the Atari ST and Amiga had just come out and 3.5" drives were becoming the norm. But since this is marketing literature, it's not surprising they'd be a bit boastful.
I can see where Microsoft got inspiration to its Windows and Xbox strange names. From the Kaypro line!
13:52 "Nice" I hope you're paying royalties to Steve!!
did you see the kaypro "featured" in stranger things season 4 episode 2?
I haven't started watching it yet but it's next up in my queue!
By "Largest computer company", you mean the most successful and/or widely used, not the makers of the largest sized computers. There was a point, if Kaypro had not resisted changing to DOS, they could have likely remained the most popular computer.
Why not both 😁 Yeah, it's fascinating how single decisions can shape the entire course of the industry. By the same token, if Gary Kildall had negotiated with IBM to make CP/M the standard OS for the IBM PC, Digital Research could have been where Microsoft is today.
@@retrobitstv Plus, Imagine where the World and Computers would be today if Gary Kildall had not died at an early age!
Neck damage from looking at the machine at unnatural angles for long periods of time aside, I don’t want to know what kind of damage could be done to your back, spine, and shoulders from trying to carry around this 26 pound behemoth of a machine.
You use WD-40 as grease? That stuff turns into glue when it dries out. Get yourself some teflon grease.
That was WD-40 brand white lithium grease. It seems to do the job and shouldn't gum up over time. 🤞