About losing that first light saber battle, there was a three-part structure to old comic book heroes that went like this: 1) Hero meets villain for the first time; villain succeeds at their crime and gets away. 2) Hero encounters villain a second time; hero foils the crime but the villain gets away. 3) Hero encounters villain a third time; hero foils the crime and captures the villain. It's a pretty good structure: it shows the hero learning and adapting. You can also have the villain learn and adapt, just as long as the hero learns and adapts better.
And each one can be a complete story in itself with a "happy" end. The end of the first is the hero surviving despite being outclassed. Surviving alone is heroic. Part two is heroic by foiling the villains plans, and the final one heroic for catching or killing the villain.
@@Carewolf Agreed! When it comes to, say, Batman, that first encounter is more of a loss because he starts the story at a high level of competence. But if it's a new hero, such as Rey, it's okay to lose that first fight, because it shows they've got scrappy survival instincts even if they're outclassed. Or as another example, Arnold Schwarzenegger surviving his first fight with the Predator, after the Predator had killed everyone else: just surviving was a pretty impressive feat.
@@kingbeauregard and he survived because he got lucky in a way that makes sense. We also see the predator adapt once arnold has the upper hand. Even the final trap doesn't work as intended because the predator figures it out and arnold gets lucky again.
Rey mastering the Jedi mind trick without any training had me instantly check out for the rest of the movie and I never saw another Star Wars movie since. You definitely hit the nail on the head about her not losing the fight granting absolutely no satisfaction. Something I do think I need to do better and take from this is just how punished the hero should be, I don't think I've done a good enough job with that in my stories.
She learned it from being probed by Kylo who was messing with her mind. Given that she has a strong connection to the force, it makes sense for her to "sort" of do it with that one trooper. It doesn't negate that she feels overpowered throughout the movie tho.
I still feel like Rey should have ultimately fallen in episode nine and that was Palpatine‘s grand plan, and then Kylo redeems himself, and is the real rise of Skywalker. It would have explained away all of her ridiculous power, and things is just being Palpatine trying to clone himself through her or something
IMO they should have written it in a way that Kylo and Rae reject the concept of a dark or light force and instead use the whole force as such. This would be in line with the other trilogies as well. First trilogy: Hero turns to the light side. Second Trilogy: Hero turns to the dark side, Third Trilogy: Heros refuse to pick sides. But tbh anything would have been better than what they had written.
It was plainly obvious that, even if she didn't turn, she should have used dark side powers, throughout the three movies, for her big bursts of strength and skill, which is much more obvious, once we learn she is a child of Palpatine. She would have been WAY more interesting, if she had a 'press Evil to win' button, instead of just autowinning because she is the Bestest Evar. Maybe with some bad side effects, either it hurts innocents nearby, or it draws her more to the dark side. The throne room scene with Snoke was a REALLY obvious place to go dark side, ESPECIALLY when he had her in his force grip. Because she already knew from her training that there was a dangerous dark side place she could go for more power, that was the time to do it, rather than wait for the villains to kill each other, like she did.
The other problem with Rey winning that fight is that it really establishes Kylo-ren as a terrible villain. He already had temper tantrums and acts like a kid. ( should have left that mask on. ) Later he can't even beat a jedi with no training. Why should we even fear him? He's nothing compared to Darth Vader.
For a real-life example of a hero, there's Audie Murphy, who has been called the real Captain America. He was small and sickly but was finally accepted into the army after lying about his age, and then went on to become the most decorated soldier of WWII, winning every award for valor that his country had to offer, as well as medals from Belgium. His most famous action involved climbing atop a burning tank destroyer and using its gun to hold off six German tanks and a couple hundred foot soldiers, while also calling in artillery strikes on his own position. He recieved wounds in both legs (and this was shortly after he had been in the hospital where five pounds of gangrenous flesh had been removed from an infected hip wound), but he refused treatment until after he had lead a counter attack after the German troops retreated. For this action he was awarded the Medal of Honor. After the war he suffered greatly from PTSD and became addicted to sleeping pills. He was one of the first people to really speak up about the mental health of veterans, though he didn't live long enough to see much progress made.
What’s funny about the Spider-Man: Homecoming one is that in Spider-Man: No Way Home, it’s the complete polar opposite. You could say that about some parts of Far From Home (especially the ending scenes), but it’s much more apparent with No Way Home. Peter gets his most severe punishments for every bad choice he makes (including losing Aunt May after attempting to cure the sinister 6 in their house goes horribly wrong), and yet he is already severely punished anyway by the start of the movie because after Mysterio’s expose on him, everyone knows who he is and it’s affecting his personal life around him. Unlike Homecoming, Iron Man isn’t there to help him out this time for obvious reasons (neither is Dr Strange for half of the movie after Peter deliberately traps him in the Mirror dimension), and most of the bad choices he makes are from his own fault and lack of warning from his remaining friends. He does get help from the other Spidermen in the end in order to beat the challenge of changing the sinister 6 AFTER he has his worst punishment of Losing Aunt May, and while the rest of the sinister 6 are easily cured, Green Goblin is more difficult and tests Peter to the point where he almost kills him as revenge. And lastly he really grows as a character when he chooses NOT to tell Ned, MJ and his close allies that he’s Spider-Man again and sacrifices his own prior identity in order to stay Spider-man only. There’s definitely some issues that show up (EG: They Find the Sinister 6 really easily. The Sinister 6 are mostly cannon fodder compared to the Green Goblin), but it’s neat to know that the movie really did improve on the many faults of Spider-Man Homecoming’s Peter Parker.
Tried watching Homecoming with a few friends. We generally don't like marvel movies, but we do care abour Spiderman. We stopped watching about 15 mintues in lol
Great analysis. This is one of the reasons why No Way Home is an amazing movie and not just a fan service fun superhero movie. Peter gets challenged throughout the movie, he makes choices and faces consequences, and the movie hammers the theme of responsibility. I also think Far From Home is better than Homecoming because of how it challenges Peter. He trusts Mysterio with EDITH glasses, and Mysterio gets access to a ton of deadly drones. He gets fooled by Mysterio's illusions and reveals all the friends that know about the illusions and now Peter's friends are in danger. Finally, Peter beats Mysterio by being Spider-Man with his own ingenuity and spidey sense. He realizes he doesn't need to become the next Iron Man but rather improve himself as spider-man.
i know that sometimes various LotR heroes are just assumed to be heroic, but no, they have to work very hard and that fits with several of your examples.
Tolkien's heroes show his Christian influence (lembas = communion host, for example) and its values of humility and sacrifice. Frodo was the hero, but was mutilated, stabbed, poisoned, and never truly recovered until he went into the West.
On of my favorite protagonists is Puss In Boots from The Last Wish. He's initially portrayed as this skilled but overconfident sword duelist, but after losing his eighth life, he suffers a defeat from the movie's villain, Death. Over the course of the story, Death chides Puss, shoves him around, and serves as both a physical and metaphorical manifestation of Puss's fear of death itself. At the very end, after he's run from Death three times, he's given the choice to either wish his lives back or face Death and go down swinging. After he fights Death, he realizes that he can never defeat him, and Death realizes that Puss no longer deserves to die and walk away. The reason this works is because Puss faces impossible challenges and doesn't overcome them at all. Instead, he realizes that he would rather have his one life than nine others, and he accepts that he can never defeat Death the concept or death the being.
Best hero: Mark from invincible, a relatable morally good teenager that is brutally challenged during the series by his father, his mom, his girlfriend and his superhero teammates. Theres little i would change about him. Worst hero: Captain marvel from the mcu. Overopowered, unchallenged, boring and just overly protected by the franchise she is in.
I second this, especially about Captain Marvel. It was ironically funny, especially the final fight, with that absurd looking one punch move against the antagonist.
Yeah Captain Marvel really baffles me because the writers choose to put her against the weakest villains possible. Here you have this super powerful hero, yet her opposition ends up being some joke of a villain that even Captain America would beat without much trouble.
Captain Marvel is worse than just being badly written. She commits what I consider to be the cardinal sin of writing: She's specifically made to antagonize (a part of) the audience. No irony, no sarcasm, no wit, no subversion. She exists to fulfill the writer's self-insertion and political aspirations, while purposefully degrading and abusing Men as a monolith. She's written from a place of sheer ego and spite. I'd rather eat the most poorly made but well intended meal, than one that the chef willfully poisoned in front of me. Captain Marvel is literary poison.
I grew up with Tobey's Spider-Man and I always saw him as the definition of a real hero, especially the seconde movie. He's pushed to the point of quitting his role in order to have a normal life like he always wanted to but his sense of responsability is too strong to let people suffer while standing by. He's face with a dilemma and finally decide to sacrifice his dream of a normal life to be a hero and inspire people. I still get goosebumps from Aunt May's speech
His Spider-Man definitely influenced my pre-teen development lol. I named my cat Tobey and fell in love with a man who chooses to suffer rather than let anyone else ❤️🩹
Your criticisms of "Superman" are fair, though I put it to you that the movie is less about the physical challenges, and more about showing that there is still room for decency a world that isn't even sure what is worth valuing. That's where the heart of the movie is. All the same, you're not wrong that better physical challenges would have been in order. To put it a little differently, a lot of the point of Superman isn't what he does, but what he DOESN'T do.
You open an interesting door here. Sometimes, writing itself needs context in time. Superman came out in an era where there was a lot of "every good guy dies" really depressing movies. The mood of the nation at that time was definitely a bit more dark and depressed. Like there was no good any more. They killed JFK, then they killed MLK and RFK. The men trying to do good kept getting murdered. We needed some form of hope, and Superman really personifies hope more than anything else. Despite Snyder's version being panned, the Russell Crowe speech on first flight hits the narrative core. "You will give the people of earth an ideal to stive towards."
Superman II also did a great job as a sequel in giving Superman villains on an equal footing, while at the same time giving him an internal struggle to deal with. This is why SMII is much more highly regarded than than SMI
I'm going to use examples of Disney heroines: The worst: Asha from "Wish" because she doesn't suffer, every single person besides the bad guy agrees with everything she says, and her only "flaw" according to the film makers is that "oh, she just cares too much" when NO single person asked to be cared for or showed suffering The best: Belle from "Beauty and the Beast" because she is viewed by others as either being an oddball or just pretty despite her being intelligent, she has to make a sacrifice to save her father, and she not only developes as a hero but also helps develop the Beast in his arc
I'm not sure about Belle, but Asha is really the worst... For me, the best hero is Pavel Korchagin from "How the Steel Was Tempered" (yes, it's a book, not a movie). He changes, he grows above himself, he doubts, tests his convictions for strength and at the same time lives a full life, despite an incurable disease. It is especially touching that this is essentially an artistically reworked biography of the author.
Great video man. Going back to The Cap, if you think about it, it's incredible his entire character arc through Avengers. Despite winning against evil, he has to pay with *losing his friend (Bucky) in the war and not being able to fulfill his love with Carter. Imagine being resurrected in this very different reality, then it is until Civil War that he is able to recover Bucky, at the cost of having to fight almost to the death against his friend-rival Tony Stark. And you have to wait until the end of Endgame, and only thanks to movie magic, that he is able to go back into the past and finally reunite with Carter. It's still my favorite MCU Avenger, and I'm not even American!
*Losing (not "loosing"). Find/Lose - opposites with four letters. Tight/Loose - opposites with five letters. Easy way to remember which spelling to use. Hope that helps. Have a good day.
@@houddythequeen Another easy way to remember is that "lost" only has one O in it, so the present/future tense of "lost" will also have only one O in them as well.
Not to mention in Winter Soldier where his entire new world is thrown upside down again and he finds he can't trust anyone. Turns out his WW2 nemesis Hydra has corrupted SHIELD AND they're using his brainwashed best friend to do so. That entire second movie is an insane test for him as a character and his values.
at 4:30 you say Lex somehow finds out superman's weakness is kryptonite... but it was printed in the interview Lois Lane wrote. The bad writing is Lex Luthor's leap in logic that pieces of Krypton made it to earth and in the span of what is a few hours and at most one or two days, finds a meteor in africa and comes back to set his plan in motion
Think she only prints that his home planet was krypton and maybe was destroyed, but nothing about it being deadly to him (Lex makes that leap on his own somehow). But Superman also has the brilliant idea of telling her he can't see through lead, which she might have published to the whole world to read 🙃
@@davidhubber6977 I would have been happier if Lex's train of thought had been, "what can kill Superman, except a weapon made of material from his world?" From there Lex would have to find materials that arrived on earth at the same time Superman did, and then discovered that one of them emitted a "harmless" radiation. Which would get Lex thinking, "harmless to us, but to him ... ?" The story could easily have provided just a little more information for Lex to work with, so that we could say he's smart enough to connect the dots. The final detail would be to just have a scene where Lex tests his kryptonite hypothesis, by having Otis disguise himself as an old lady trying to cross the street, with a tiny bit of kryptonite on him. So when Superman swoops down to help him, he'd notice that Superman was wobbly on his feet. Or some scene like that.
@@kingbeauregard The main problem is that kryptonite never made much logical sense. Why would a race that has space travel continue to live on a planet that's toxic to them and prevents them from basically being gods? Why would a species evolve that's weakened by exposure to the ground of the planet it evolved on? There's no way a smart person would logic out the effects of kryptonite without seeing it in action.
Thank you for the deep dive on the MCU Spider-Man! I’ve always felt that everyone likes his character, but I’ve always seen him as “pampered” because of him being handed gadgets and grants left and right from Tony and he always gets out of trouble. Whereas Toby and Andrew’s Spider-Men were constantly facing the consequences of their tough decisions and more often than not doing hero work without safety nets. That made them much more compelling characters in my book.
I'm not a fan of the Rocky sequels, but the first movie is one of my favorites, ever. His character is so deep. It looks like a sports movie, but it's a character study, instead. And at the moment they are announcing the judges' scorecards, we can hear the anouncer in the *background* while Rocky screams for his girl in the foreground, highlighting just how unimportant the actual result of the competition is. He's already won in his heart, and he doesn't even need to listen to the results. That final scene is the one that truly makes that movie sing!
You're spot-on. I even how our view of Apollo is obstructed during that final scene--further emphasizing the idea that the outcome of the match isn't what really matters
Great movie and it gets better on every watch. Watch the scene where Creed is doing a TV interview almost in the background while Rocky’s sitting at the bar. The bartender makes a disparaging remark about Creed being a rich show-off. You maybe expect Rocky to meekly agree, as he’s had kind of a rough week, but instead he’s super offended and tells off the bartender for criticizing a guy who is the best in the world at something and who must have had insane inner strength to even attempt it much less get there. That’s what Rocky is about.
14:51, like how Harry Potter never directly fights Voldemort until the climax of the fourth book and (even though he survives), he doesn’t unambiguously best Voldemort in direct confrontation until the climax of the seventh book
While Harry was shown as a pretty strong wizard, it was a good decision not to make him stronger than Voldemort. However, he wins because Voldemort is being stupid and keeps trying to kill him with an already failed method.
@@matityaloran9157 the problem with that is his past. Young Tom Riddle was shown as a more subtle and less direct type of guy who relies on cunning over brute strength.
Brandon, I celebrate every one of your videos. You're doing great work for the writing community. I just wish more modern film and television show creators would watch your videos--they've lost their way.
the good writers wont get jobs due to DEI. Those who do will submit or else they will lose position and status in the woke DEI corporate world. Being woke enough becomes like armour even if you are toxic as all hell - you cant be criticised or else the woke mob makes things terrible for everyone.
Something I've found with a lot of recent stories, the only difference between the heroes and villains is that the villains suffer the consequences for their actions!
My two favorite fictional heroes will always be Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor (taking into account only the first two movies of their respective franchises) but in recent years, Edward and Alphonse Elric have been pretty high up the list too. One of the main themes of the whole Fullmetal Alchemist saga is that actions have consequences and the brothers journey is about seeking redemption without causing further suffering to others.
For me, and I know I sing this show’s praises to death, but the best set of heroes, yes not just one hero, is from “Avatar: The Last Airbender”. It’s hard to pick just one hero where the entire hero group is amazing. I’ll try to keep it brief. First you have the head honcho himself, Avatar Aang. He’s a 12 year kid who values life even in its darkest forms. Katara is the last water bender from her tribe and struggles to learn at first but then finds help in the north. Sokka isn’t a bender at all and is just a quirky guy with a big heart. At some point he’s left to question his worth because he lacks any bending ability. Toph is as blind as a bat but learned how to perceive her surroundings through her earth bending ability. There’s too many stuff to talk about and I’d encourage you to watch this show if you haven’t. The worst hero, is honestly hard to pick for me because there’s so many, especially in the modern era, that are just too perfect. You gave one example which is Rey, she had potential at least but then Disney fricked it up. She’s just one of many unfortunately and many of them over shadow some amazing characters such as Star Wars’ own Finn.
I would argue that Zuko is the true unsung and grossly unappreciated hero. His journey not only mirrors Aang's but also exceeds it and becomes even more relatable and realistic.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Honestly, I never realize how long your videos are, because I'm so engrossed. My first reaction to this comment was "no WAY that was 19 minutes, it felt like 7 or 8!"
The difference is: bad heroes are either one-dimensional, Mary Sue writer self-inserts, and/or too stupid or obnoxious to be taken seriously. Good heroes on the other hand, are relatable yet good, represent good values, and/or change for the better in a natural way.
If we stop and analyze a LOT of hero films from the 70-90s in particular in good faith, you'd see example after example after example of Mary Sues that became icons. So, Hollywood nor the general public have a problem with them...until they're played by women. And that's because female roles are scrutinized more, and suddenly when women are playing a part as countless male heroes played them (unless written by James Cameron), people will notice that it's b.s. and have something to say. But it says a lot that it takes a gender swap for people to notice. What's funny is that the same guy who made Rey that way is the same guy who made my most disliked version of Captain Kirk, just handing him things over and over when he should have been kicked out of Starfleet. I hate a character that fails upwards, and that was Kirk. That scene where he makes Spock attack him and then gets to sit in the Captain's chair thereafter ticked me off so much because of how ridiculous it was. Well at least we can finally agree such characters suck? Or will we justify certain ones over others? Hmm.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin I think you're giving a very insightful analysis but that it's not the only variable to take into consideration. It seems like people are getting more and more picky and difficult to please, and what worked in the 70es / 80es does not work anymore now. Plus there is a real fatigue on watching the same tropes over and over again, when they were fresher back then. That being said, gender does have something to do with this; I'm convinced Captain Marvel would still be considered a bad movie if the hero was a man, but it would be much less hated. I think it would just be quickly forgotten
@@LadyAstarionAncunin U MAY HAVE A POiNT, i DON'T KNOW 4 SURE, HAVEN'T REALLY WATCHED STAR TREK OR THAT MANY 1970'Z SHOWZ, BUT U DO SOUND OBNOXiOUZ MAN ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
Iron Man is probably the most loved MCU supehero and he is the least relateable character in the whole franchise, unless you are a philandering billionaire. Most people are not but they want to be and that's why they root for the guy and overlook the fact that he is also a Mary Sue. He is a genius billionaire, I mean can you get more OP? And when he faces the concequences of his, let's face it, evil actions a disposable kind hearted man saves him. And the result of all these is that he makes an 180 and becomes a hero. Is this the natural way? Of course not! Now search this (and others) comment section and find a comment, other than mine, that says that Iron Man is not an example of a good hero. Or better yet, imagine if he was a woman...
I'll definitely be covering antiheroes and morally grey characters in the future. I get a lot of requests about this. Villain Protagonists...hmm. I'll think about it. If you want a dark and sinister book with a villain protag, check out "And The Devil Cried" by Kristopher Triana. Absolutely gripping.
@@WriterBrandonMcNultysay one of the characters I have in one of the stories I have in mind is bit of an anti hero. To put it this way, they’re kind of like The Man With No Name, Dirty Harry, and John Wick all in one. Also somewhat like the Driver from Drive (2011). Not a villain but I just thought I’d share it.
Superman the movie was a setup for the next film The Richard Donner Cut of Superman 2. When Superman takes missile into space, the explosion releases supervillians from the Phantom Zone. As the villians make way to earth, superman decide to become human and then has to get his powers back after they attack. He even gets beaten up and also endure the ice cold snow. He did suffer.
In a way, Capt. America's moral code is also his weak point- he tends to impose his sense of morality on others. That is where he differs from Iron Man who is more pragmatic. Speaking of which, how about a video discussing the morality of the Sokovia Accords in Capt. America: Civil War. This won't be an easy one as Tony's actions to support the accord have moral weight- an indirect consequence of Age of Ultron, and he was trying to make amends for it- unlike the comic version where he agreed in general with the government.
Yes he was probably the worse character. Given the original bunch of homeric characters as they were introduced in TFA, a good vilain could have made the movie so much better.
I agree with your overall point. I disagree with your first examples: Superman the Movie was not a bad version of a hero. Nor was Lex a bad version of a villain. Lex used a supersonic whistle to lure Superman into his lair and faked Superman into discovering his own demise -- the kryptonite he held in a lead case that Superman couldn't see thru. The way it was done ensured that he couldn't be held liable for Superman's death because he told Superman not to look in the box. Then, he hacked missile commands to make it seem like ussr and us fired missiles at each other and diverted them to fly in opposite directions because he believed superman wasn't fast enough to stop both of them. Superman saved the world and diverted one misile to space but he realized that he couldn't stop the other one in time, so he chose to repair the damage that it had done, instead. But in doing so he realized that that plan didn't work because Lois died. THEN, comes the most ICONIC and emotional moment in not only CBM history but in cinema as a whole. Superman kissed Lois' lifeless body and then he CRIED! Then he was filled with a tremendous amount of rage and he flew (to what I thought he was going to find Lex and kill him) but his parents memories stopped him...his moral compass was compromised...his dad told him not to interfere with human history...he then rejected his own feelings and his dad's wishes and flew faster than anything had ever flown before--near the speed of light and time reversed directions. that wasn't a "ctrl Z"... that was him simultaneously proving himself, his dad, AND Lex Luthor wrong! Because he didn't do it for selfish reasons, like his father was was trying to prevent him from being a villain, he did it to save the most amount of people. He proved that Lex was wrong in thinking that he wasn't fast enough to stop both missiles. Then he threw Lex in prison, proving to himself that even though Lex hurt him, revenge wasn't worth him sacrificing the things that made him human.
Thank you for your comment, you make more sense than the author of the video, when it comes to Superman. I feel sometimes this generation does not understand the him. But superman the movie is till one of most iconic movies of all time and always will be.
Interestingly, Far From Home seems to remedy all of the problems Brandon brought up about Homecoming. The conflict of trying not to have his identity revealed? That's one of the strongest weapons the villain uses against Peter. Mysterio even leaks it by the end and it has devestating consequences going forward. Peter not solving his own problems? He does get assisted early on, but that was from Mysterio intentionally being a showman. This turns what could have been an unintentionally hollow victory into something intentional. Going forward, he has no choice but to take on Mysterio on his own due to his ability to mimic others with illusions. By the end, the fight is fairly close, but he comes out on top, but not without the aforementioned massive loss. Peter accepting his role as Iron Man's heir by the end in a way that's unearned? Peter get E.D.I.T.H. early on and believes he is unfit, and his logic is sound. However, after seeing what Stark's tech could do in the hands of a villain and proving he is a capable hero, he's ready to accept his role as someone who continues Stark's legacy of heroism.
My nomination for worst movie hero is pretty much any Steven Seagal character. Every Seagal movie features a bland, boring, unchallenged super cop/SEAL/commando/whatever who tears through flimsy bad guys without breaking a sweat. Seagal heroes are rarely challenged, they don’t grow as people, they don’t struggle with their value system, and nothing is learned.
@@siegfriedmordrake3229 Not only that but the fights aren't even interesting. Towards the middle part of his career it was just 'everybody flaps their arms around and we'll shake the camera to hide how bad the fight choreography is.' Bruce Lee characters were often really dominant, but at least when Bruce Lee won a fight it felt satisfying.
Agree, tho in Under Siege he is tested and more interesting. I recall thinking after seeing the sequel how his character just coasted though the train rescue and that made it a bit boring despite a pretty interesting villain setup.
@@siegfriedmordrake3229 Under Siege wasn’t terrible. Definitely Seagal’s best and one of the better “Die Hard on a Gimmick” entries that came out around then. There was some really weird stuff in that movie, though… Gary Busey in drag, Tommy Lee Jones eating roast beef with his hands on the bridge, every scene Erika Eleniak was in…
Definitely agree on Spider-Man: Homecoming. It was a huge disappointment not only because Peter wasn't challenged but also because of how the movie failed to build sympathy for him. In the Raimi and Webb movies, Peter is facing financial struggles, school bullies, Uncle Ben's death, balancing his own superpowers, etc. On the other hand, Homecoming Peter is a super smart kid, well liked by his peers and teachers, Flash is just a nuisance to him, not a physical bully, and he has no family problems. He just wants to be as cool as Iron Man. Fine, you want to make this version an unlikable egoistical kid who would eventually learn responsibility. However, like you said, the safety net problem comes. Every time there is a problem, the writers solve it for Peter. I also didn't really like how Peter grew after Iron Man takes away his suit. Yeah, he fights Vulture with his own homemade suit and webs but I thought the fight was pretty underwhelming. Vulture managed to beat Peter in a few seconds when he had a technologically advanced suit and yet Peter manages to beat him in the climax despite lacking all of that and being severely wounded. Then like you said, Peter rejecting the suit has no real value because he thought it was a test and although he doesn't join the avengers, he still gets the suit. There are also a ton of other reasons why this movie is my least favorite (its still decent) like lack of compelling supporting characters and goofy humor but the main problem is that Peter's arc has a lot of shortcomings.
You nailed it. And I forgot to bring up Flash in this video. The worst thing he does is call Peter “Penis Parker” and this version of Flash is wimpy/nerdy, which means Peter doesn’t get much of a challenge from him. Homecoming’s flaws are everywhere, but most people excuse them because the movie is smoothed over with layers of slick humor. Strip those layers away and you’re left with the weakest Spider-Man movie.
@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thanks for the reply !! Means a lot to me. Also I totally agree. That running gag was pretty unfunny for me and didn't challenge Peter much or build sympathy for him. He is a well respected high school nerd. Who cares about some disliked and academically poor student badmouthing him ? This is another aspect the Amazing movies Excell in as they made Flash a compelling character.
For me the best example of an excellent "cheat code" hero power moment would be when Prince Zukko directs lightning for the first time. It comes exactly when he needs it to save his life, but it only comes because he confronts his inner demons and his father. It's an amazing scene, an amazing demonstration of character growth, and a badass new power to gain.
Off topic of sorts, but I sort of wish in Korra that when the lightning benders are powering the generators there would have been a beat where of them drops with his chest on fire or exploded from not accurately redirecting the lighting around the heart. Would have at least demonstrated that industrial use of bending came with casualties.
Hero of Time Link got to be my favourite hero. His life is a constant struggle in which he never really gets full recognition for. He just accepts his fate. Gosh is it sad and depressing...
Not to sound like a Hallmark card, but: I nominate Mr. Rogers as the best hero. Think about it. He was kind, empathetic, and genuinely cared about the well-being of children. He taught us about feelings, acceptance, and the importance of being good neighbors. Sure, he lacked the ability to fly or shoot lasers from his eyes, but he possessed a superpower far more potent: the power of kindness.
Rey beating Kylo in the first movie threw me too. I knew it was a mistake. How about this instead: Rey beats and kills Kylo. Whoah. We were not expecting that, huh? And it would synch up with her being a Palaptine, on the optimistic assumption they had any plan at all.
Despite the problems with the final season of game of thrones, i liked the arc of Theon Greyjoy. Trying to protect Brandon, not because he had any hope he could defeat the Night King, but simply because it was the right thing to do. That was a nice moment in S8.
"I think he even uses the Rare Candy glitch" I think you're now obligated to cover pokemon at some point after that one lol. Don't care what, just anything pokemon related.
I think he'd have an interesting time analyzing the third movie, since it had a tragic antivillain whose actions flowed naturally from her core motivations and had a character arc where she came to terms with the loss of her family. It's some legitimately good character writing.
@@teddyhaines6613 honestly I’d just love to see him rank the Pokémon movies, there’s so much “Good vs Bad” he can do, and just covering something for Kids in general would be nice, it’s rare we get good lessons on how to write for kids in any writing channel honestly. Even review channels that do specifically kids media can only tell so much. For writers who want to write for kids there’s definitely fewer resources/examples
Going on a weeb tanget, I really like Edward Elric - guy has simple goals, and while the way he explains it might make it seem like he is out for just himself and his bro, he does help literally everyone he can, constantly taking on burden and guilt from others, always going out of his way to do things harder than needed because he just can't conform to militaristic efficiency over ethics, refusing to kill even psychopaths trying to skewer him because to him, every life has worth. Overall, just lovely, whole story truly embodies ideas of exchange and sacrifice, and there's little he won't sacrifice for his friends, family, and morals.
I chuckled at the "Easy Mode" hero for the same reason I do when a _Three Stooges_ short starts with someone bringing on "THREE new men"; it seems so obvious where the setup is going that it's almost unnecessary. But then it turned out _not_ to be Rey, subverting my expectations completely! But then she turns up later under "Cheat Code" hero, because she is the Platonic Ideal of a badly-written hero and any discussion on them that doesn't include her is disingenuous on its face. Although, not enough people commented on the "How are they going to keep her interesting if she can kick the main villain's ass right away?" problem, but trust me, it didn't go unnoticed by all of us.
Yeah. It's especially egregious in video games with those bosses you repeatedly fight. Like "I beat you easily, and you're coming after me again like you somehow have a chance? Buddy... I assure you. This WILL be like last time."
Ashoka is a good example! In the Clone Wars series she is a great "safety net" hero, she makes mistakes and is constantly saved but she's being punished (by others and herself) and eventually grows to be the safety net for the Rebels heroes. She makes a great sacrifice there standing up for her values and when she's eventually saved she returns seemingly overpowered (in The Clone Wars final season) but again she loses everything that's valueable to her. Finally, in the Ahsoka series, she is a little OP again but she still needs to learn more about herself, she struggles and loses in the end but that seems to be the final lesson she needs.
My favorite Star Wars hero is Ahsoka Tano. She has failures and immaturity in the being of Clone Wars and then grows so much throughout the rest of the series.
@@skepticalsmurf That is a really difficult to watch because no one wanted to see Anakin and Asoka separate. But she didn’t like that the Jedi Council treated her as guilty before she could have a fair trail. This was a big step for her to become her own person. It was also crucial for Anakin’s fall to the dark side. No wonder he saw the council as corrupt after how they misjudged his padawan…
@@isabellagonzales7857 My problem with that is that it makes him look even stupider by trusting Palpatine. It should have been firmly planted in his mind to trust absolutely no one fully, not just the council.
Cap's interlude as a "chorus girl" for war bonds also explains away his crazy brightly colored uniform that nobody would ever wear into battle. So much about that movie was very clever. It's one of my favorites of the Marvel movies.
The worse is not Superman, rather Captain Marvel for the same reasons only worse. The best and my favorite is Atticus Fitch from to kill a Mockingbird.
either that or they heard from comic fans just how tired they are of watching spiderman suffer... which I mean... fair, that's kind of the big issue with modern spider man. Peter just can't catch a break.
@xShadowChrisx this goes back to one of the problems I had with what he gives as a good hero. Does a good hero HAVE to suffer? Or have we become so used to delegating every good quality to heroes so much that they aren't allowed to be an actual character because they carry every good intention of the story on their back? Does a hero lack interesting qualities because they're a hero, or because we've made them uninteresting?
@@xavierthomas5835 I think suffering is just a cheat code to connect the audience to them, but I think just as many actual teens connected with modern peter. I mean there's a lot to connect to even if it seems like the adults are "bailing him out" which... I mean that's what kids are *supposed* to get. I think a lot of kids relate to that feeling of the adults talking down not taking you seriously, and it's not like peter doesn't suffer from his choices, I just rewatched that movie and I mean, yeah he loses the girl, he's called and thought of as a loser by all his classmates for constantly bailing on them. He still suffers, it's just not at *every* chance. Ultimately interesting is in the eye of the beholder, but that's also not a good excuse... I mean some even really smart people thought *rey* was a good or interesting character in the first movie...
@@xShadowChrisxthe problem is, in the comics it just feels mean spirited at this point, almost like torture porn. The Riami movies for example made Peter suffer in relatable, earnest and sincere ways. And THAT worked.
I really appreciate a lot of your content, Brandon! If you don't mind a modest critique, the only thing that bothers me in this video is the flagrant use of the word "sucks." I feel that resorting to such "low-shelf" words undermines your credibility. As a writer, I think you could be far more creative in your word choice. I get it - "sucks" and "works" might appeal from a simplistic perspective - but I think you might benefit from a bit more sophistication. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
I think it would have been so interesting if they'd added a different type of layer to the character of Rey. She was abandoned when she was a young child, and has basically grown-up on her own. If she didn't scavenge enough every day, she literally wouldn't eat. This would have caused some anti-social traits that she would have had to overcome throughout the trilogy. Plus, if they added one or two friends that were killed as they tried to join her and Finn when they were first escaping on the Millennium Falcon, that could had added more depth. She might have been a selfish character, just wanting to get off of Jakku and lead a different life, but the death of her friends could have caused her to want revenge against the First Order. I don't know - just ANYTHING to make her more interesting! Also, I'd like to add that Spider Man No Way Home is a great example of a good character. He makes some bad mistakes and ends up losing everything because of it. They definitely up the ante with his suffering level in that film! :)
I LOVE your channel and every episodes becomes my favorite video of the day. You break down ideas into digestible nuggets that are easily grasped by everyone. I am going to point out an absolute train wreck of writing called 'you can't run forever' which has a really good star to support it in J.K. Simmons but the writing is a master class on how to 'not write' a story. Talk about bad hero versus villain conflict. Trust me. You might want to check it out for a future instructional video.
Hi Brandon, aspiring epic fantasy writer here, without a creative writing background. Really benefit from your vids. They're snappy and dense, and I benefit from the systematic thinking you encourage. I've noticed that your videos tend to focus on theme, plot, and characters and the issues surrounding them, but I don't recall seeing as many videos of yours covering issues revolving around setting (when and where). What happens when a setting is poorly established, or the wrong setting is chosen for a story? Just some ideas for you to consider for future vids!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Awesome! Heh shoot, inelegance of words...by dense I mean efficiently packed with useful information, not dense in the sense of impenetrable, just to be clear! The good kind of dense.
To be fair to the Superman example, the appeal of that movie was being able to have a live action superhero with powers on the big screen. It was about the spectacle of it all. That said, you're 100% right.
First 2 seasons of the animated show Trollhunters shows some great writing and the right kind of hero- Jim Lake is kicked down again and again but adapts and overcomes using creativity, building relationships, grit, and help from others.
Best hero I've ever met is Stormblessed Kaladin of Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive. Throughout the first 4 books, he only manages to get new abilities by making oaths, losing friends sometimes. I love the way he's suffering and even trying to commit suicide - which the Stormfather doesn't let him of course. If you hadn't you should check it out, it well worth the over 1200 pages for each book.
About Captain America and Marvel: I don't remember exactly which one, but there was a critique video that highlighted how Steve's and Tony's character arcs mirror each other. At the beginning, Steve is entirely devoted to sacrificing himself for others; he is loyal to the government and the army, with a strict moral code that leaves no room for compromise. On the other hand, Tony starts as a self-centered genius who cares only about himself. By the end, Steve chooses to pursue his own happiness, reuniting with the love of his life, while Tony makes the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. There's something profoundly poetic about this-and I doubt Marvel will ever achieve such narrative depth again.
I think about the moment in Avengers: End Game when Cap straps his shield on his wounded arm to stand up against thanos and his whole army. Such an incredible moment of heroism!
As a longtime Spider-Man fan, I've criticized the first movie for many of these reasons---Spider-Man was never his own person in this movie, his reliance on Iron Man and the suits provided completely negated his need for even having/learning about his own powers and how to be a hero
For the “good” version of a coddled hero, you should have used the next 2 Tom Holland Spider-Man movies as a good comparison. He gets put in crappy positions BECAUSE of his powers, tries his best to navigate morally grey situations, fails, picks himself back up, and sacrifices his own safety/life/family. They really turned his version of Spider-Man around from the fairly weak start in Homecoming, and now I find him fantastic.
Great breakdown on Spider-Man Homecoming, been playing the computer games for Spider-Man and Mile Morales and they are constantly having to deal with the consequences of their actions.
Best hero- Wonder Woman from the 2017 film and the worst would be the same hero in Wonder Woman 1984. Loved "The Half Murders" btw and plan to pick up "Entry Wounds" next!
Thanks for checking out The Half Murders! Glad you enjoyed it. Please leave a brief Amazon review if possible. And I hope you love Entry Wounds--it was my favorite to write!
I'm sorry to say that you misread the Spider-Man scene. Peter DOES turn down the new suit because he realizes how inadequate he is as a superhero. The idea that Tony was testing him comes AFTER he turns it down (and Tony lies that it was indeed a test only to save face). So there was a lesson-a HUGE one-and he learned it.
I love Cap. He is heroic, principled and handsome! What's not to love! There are challenges along the way, but he ultimately stays true to his ideals. Steve and Peggy are also the cutest couple in the MCU, and I appreciate that she gets to be great in her own right WITHOUT stealing away an ounce of Cap's worth or competence. Instead, they inspire each other. When they shared that adorable dance in Endgame, I knew the MCU was over for me. It's not the most original pick, but he is a classic for a reason. 💙
The problems you listed about Homecoming are exactly why I like No Way Home, it pretty much fixes all of them. There are high stakes, dire consequences, challenged principles and sacrifice. Great conclusion after a pretty average first and second movie.
Great video again Brandon. Always love watching your content has helped me out a lot with my writing. Bad hero: Captain Marvel and She Hulk. She Hulk masters anger because no how’s to deal with creeps and Captain Marvel is great already and she learns why she is great without really mattering to us. Good heroes: I mean so many but if have to contrast Wonder Woman was written so great. She is powerful but naive and she suffers a loss of her love and she abandons society because of her mistrust in humankind. 2) Just to be different I have to go with my guys Woody and Buzz. The Toy Story characters in general are all written so great
I think a great example is Miles Morales in the Spiderverse movies. He's a character who doesnt want the powers and responsibilities that are put upon him and you can see this before he got his powers. He struggles to figure out how to use his powers but he still wants to do the right thing despite his difficult circumstances
While I definitely agree with most of your points on Spider-Man, I do have to push back on one. We have to remember that this is a movie about a teenager, so the consequences for them are going to be different than they would be for an adult. For most of the things you pointed out, that doesn't really matter. However, one that you kept hammering on feels a little empty to me. Teenagers experience consequences, but they rarely experience lasting consequences. Iron Man getting after him and telling him that he doesn't deserve the suit was a powerful moment and, based on his age and experience to that point, it was an excruciating loss, not only because he had grown accustomed to its support, but also because the moment he received the suit is the moment he really started identifying as Spider-Man. When that was taken away, so was his identity. He felt vulnerable, but he overcame that vulnerability for the good of the world. That, more than any of the other things you mentioned, is what made him a compelling character, and what made the movie enjoyable to someone like me, who was a teenager when the movie came out.
You do not get Homecoming at all. He wasn't handed another love interest. There is nothing between them in the first movie. He he is saved by Iron man he loses face, which is what puts him on the quest to begin with. Saying he doesn't suffer in that movie is insane. He gets beat up, dumped, and his academic career suffers. He doesn't turn down the suit because of any test. He comes up with that idea after he turned it down. He totally earns the job offer from the Avengers. He saves them from tons of lawsuits and a public relations nightmare.
I think the biggest thing about Rocky that makes him so great is that the series is very honest about his limits. Even when he does manage to win, they go a long way to keep him from seeming invincible. In Rocky II when he beats Apollo, the movie makes it abundantly clear that he'd pretty much lost that fight and that all Apollo needs to do is stay away from him, and he wins. But ultimately this outcome plays on both Rocky's biggest strength, and Apollo's biggest (and really only) weakness. Rocky is not as good a boxer as Apollo is. Apollo is bigger, faster, and infinitely more skilled. Despite all of that Rocky's complete unwillingness to just accept defeat frustrates Apollo and hurts his pride. Thus in Round 15 of their second fight, Apollo's unwilling to accept another decision victory. Pride overcomes common sense and this last effort to prove his superiority over Rocky costs him everything. Ultimately, Rocky's greatest triumph comes as a great payoff of the characters they'd established over the last two movies.
As you said, it's Rocky unwillingness to accept defeat that makes him win, even not being as skilled as his opponents (in most cases), but even that is carried by people around him. He couldn't have done it alone.
There's an anime called the Irregular at magic High, it's hero is so perfect without suffering in any episode that I just felt more interested in seeing him get taken down!
Hmm, I kinda disagree with you in the Spider Man part. First of all, Spider Man isn't introduced in a isolated universe, he is introduced in a universe with already other heroes. Second, I don't think the purpose of his first movie was to learn a lesson in how to be a hero but how to be independent. Third, I don't know why people hate his relationship with Iron Man, since HE IS INTRODUCED as a recruit to Tony, and therefore its obvious that they would have a pupil and mentor relationship. And, he gave a suit to Spider Man so that he could fight in the civil war airport battle. I don't know why people conflate the Iron Spider Armor with the one that tony gave him and for some reason get mad. Also, of course he would be "saved" multiple times by his mentor, because he is his mentor!!!, If I'm doing martials arts, and my master says that I'm doing something wrong, it's normal, even multiple times, I don't get why people get mad at that relationship, he isn't Tobey Maguire Spider Man on his third movie as Spider Man, that was his first movie, where again, he was already introduced as a pupil, on a universe with other heroes, AND he is a teenager, he got his powers with 15, Tobey Maguire Peter Parker got his at 18.... Fourth, he doesn't have villains to fight against yet, so yeah, he will not suffer that much, I mean, no one complained about Tobey not suffering, until the last part of the movie... where his Aunt is attacked and Mary Jane kidnapped... All before that he was suffering??? No... He pretty much did the same things that Tobey Spider Man did, which is struggle with the double life and with his potential love... Fifth, I don't think that was a empty sacrifice at the end, I don't think that was even a sacrifice, he still had the suit tony made, he could still save people with that...
Agree with you, especially regarding the mentor relationship with Tony Stark. Peter also influenced Tony; Tony practically treated Peter more like a son, which prompted him to master astrophysics in short order and devise a way to execute the time heist in Avengers: Endgame. (An oversight in Spider-Man: No Way Home was the start when Peter, Ned & MJ couldn't find work; it never occurred to them to apply at Stark Industries- its unlikely Pepper Potts would've turned them down).
Okay I agree that the mentor and pupil relationship between Peter and Tony was necessary but the thing is in the next movie it’s all about Spidey having to be the next Iron Man which doesn’t fit his character because he’s Spider-Man not Iron Man Jr, so it doesn’t make since for him to keep having to be attached to Iron Man’s legacy when Far From Home should’ve been its own story rather than Peter having to rely on Iron Man tech, but I completely agree Peter having a suit made by Tony because of the Civil War incident is permissible for the first movie
@@lukehannah4554i think it's actually more okay on the second movie. I mean, yeah, he's not spider man Jr, but Tony still chose him to be his successor for Edith. I think that fits Peter arc for taking responsibility a lot. A real real lot. I don't know why people don't like his association with Iron Man since he was recruited by him and mentored by him. In a other universes where they don't have a relationship like that, it would be okay to complain. But not on this one where Tony is literally his father figure.
I think his point is that the consequences for his actions are underwhelming. He never faces any troubles because of his actions. Even in the end, where he sacrifices, like, the best night of his life with the girl he likes, so he can stop Vulture, he basically doesn't face any consequences. I mean, maybe he would lose his spot on the spelling team(???? I forgot what it was, I think it was spelling ) after disappearing in Washington or something. Or maybe the girl would get really mad at him for disappearing during her party. I don't think those are problems, particularly, but I think that was Brandon's point. He could have suffered way more because of his actions, and didn't.
@dyegoeduardosantossilva3659 I disagree somewhat. The first movie could be seen as his "training wheels". He was still young and barely getting started as a hero and a teenager. Not to mention the film's tone is overall pretty lighthearted and comical. So I understand why they didn't want to have more long-lasting hardships: by leaving them for later installments, it hits harder by sheer contrast.
Yesssss!!! I've always hated how flimsy the tom holland spider man's stories have been. He's always sidelined and portrayed as a clueless whiney kid that needs an older adult to try and get him to get his shit together. It only took 5 movies for tom holland peter parker to finally somewhat resemble the image of a real spider-man. The "I'm a dumb innocent teenager" shtick got old real fast.
* Best Hero: I'm wavering between Frodo and Luke Skywalker. Frodo is a powerless hobbit in a world of orcs, dragons and evil demi-gods. He picks up the One Ring once, mostly out of ignorance, and still picks it up again when he learns the whole context. He takes on the responsibility, then repeatedly makes very difficult choices to stay on the right path despite the increasing temptation of The Ring. He is marred psychologically and physically by the burden he carried to the end, and the reason he wins over The Ring is not a simple Deux Ex but the consequences of his previous choices, in particular the choice to spare Smeagol/Gollum. Then, we have Luke Skywalker. He starts as a humble farmer's nephew with aspirations of heroism, grows through harsh training and difficult choices, pays a price for his mistakes, and ends the original trilogy with a tough moral choice that redeems his father after being tortured for his decision. He makes active choices, suffers the consequences and earns his growth. Every time we see him stronger, we understand it by the journey he took. It's an incremental progression, not an instant gift from the author. * Worst Hero: Rey. Just Rey. Definitely not Rey S-something. She gets powers out of nowhere. (Despite a weak explanation late in the game that she's a scion of Palpatine, she should still not just get powers without training. Also a concept of "dyad" that is applied very inconsistently.) There is no consequence at all for her mistakes and impulsive decisions. (clearest example: Chewbacca is still alive after she explodes the transport he's on. Allegedly. Because he was not on this transport. Because f... consequences.) She wins every fight on the first try. She has no clear value or quality (or she has them all, which means the same in terms of storytelling) and is never challenged on any of them. But worst of all, she just rips off Luke and steals all his achievements. She takes his powers, his redeeming a dark-side leader, his victory over Palpatine, his name, his dignity even... and she _earns_ absolutely none of it. I know she's been covered by the video already, but she's simply the worst character I've watched as far as I can remember.
I don’t think homecoming was about him not facing any real challenges. By the end of it, he realized he was living on easy mode and he thought it was hard. Made him realize he wasn’t ready to be on the main roster yet.
I don’t think it’s suffering that specifically makes a well written hero. It’s all of the decisions they make in a wide variety of scenarios, including when they’re pushed to their limits.
Suffering is just one element, I agree it's not always needed if there are enough conflicts and real challenges, but suffering helps make the character relatable and endearing (not just for a hero).
I wish more people shared your perspective of the homecoming incarnation of Spider-Man. It's so bizarre to me how the MCU fundamentally misunderstands the character, a poor college student who is beset by problems from every angle but manages to persevere for the good of society. Versus The MCU version who faces only superficial problems which are always solved quickly, while being bankrolled by billionaires and missing core pieces of his backstory such as Uncle Ben and working as a journalist.
About losing that first light saber battle, there was a three-part structure to old comic book heroes that went like this:
1) Hero meets villain for the first time; villain succeeds at their crime and gets away.
2) Hero encounters villain a second time; hero foils the crime but the villain gets away.
3) Hero encounters villain a third time; hero foils the crime and captures the villain.
It's a pretty good structure: it shows the hero learning and adapting. You can also have the villain learn and adapt, just as long as the hero learns and adapts better.
Yep, Rule of Threes at work.
The Kung Fu Panda movies do something similar
And each one can be a complete story in itself with a "happy" end. The end of the first is the hero surviving despite being outclassed. Surviving alone is heroic. Part two is heroic by foiling the villains plans, and the final one heroic for catching or killing the villain.
@@Carewolf Agreed! When it comes to, say, Batman, that first encounter is more of a loss because he starts the story at a high level of competence. But if it's a new hero, such as Rey, it's okay to lose that first fight, because it shows they've got scrappy survival instincts even if they're outclassed. Or as another example, Arnold Schwarzenegger surviving his first fight with the Predator, after the Predator had killed everyone else: just surviving was a pretty impressive feat.
@@kingbeauregard and he survived because he got lucky in a way that makes sense.
We also see the predator adapt once arnold has the upper hand.
Even the final trap doesn't work as intended because the predator figures it out and arnold gets lucky again.
Rey mastering the Jedi mind trick without any training had me instantly check out for the rest of the movie and I never saw another Star Wars movie since. You definitely hit the nail on the head about her not losing the fight granting absolutely no satisfaction. Something I do think I need to do better and take from this is just how punished the hero should be, I don't think I've done a good enough job with that in my stories.
I actually shouted "WHAT?!" in the middle of a crowded theater when that happened.
Let's not forget sith lightning
Not to mention the lack of hand motion that has been present every other time it has been done.
That was never needed and was just an aesthetic.
She learned it from being probed by Kylo who was messing with her mind. Given that she has a strong connection to the force, it makes sense for her to "sort" of do it with that one trooper. It doesn't negate that she feels overpowered throughout the movie tho.
I still feel like Rey should have ultimately fallen in episode nine and that was Palpatine‘s grand plan, and then Kylo redeems himself, and is the real rise of Skywalker. It would have explained away all of her ridiculous power, and things is just being Palpatine trying to clone himself through her or something
That sounds awesome
That would have been better.
IMO they should have written it in a way that Kylo and Rae reject the concept of a dark or light force and instead use the whole force as such. This would be in line with the other trilogies as well. First trilogy: Hero turns to the light side. Second Trilogy: Hero turns to the dark side, Third Trilogy: Heros refuse to pick sides.
But tbh anything would have been better than what they had written.
It was plainly obvious that, even if she didn't turn, she should have used dark side powers, throughout the three movies, for her big bursts of strength and skill, which is much more obvious, once we learn she is a child of Palpatine. She would have been WAY more interesting, if she had a 'press Evil to win' button, instead of just autowinning because she is the Bestest Evar. Maybe with some bad side effects, either it hurts innocents nearby, or it draws her more to the dark side. The throne room scene with Snoke was a REALLY obvious place to go dark side, ESPECIALLY when he had her in his force grip. Because she already knew from her training that there was a dangerous dark side place she could go for more power, that was the time to do it, rather than wait for the villains to kill each other, like she did.
@@achimsinn6189that would have taken it back to Lucas’ original Jungian themes; integrate the light and the dark in the process of individuation.
Please make Good vs. Bad Villains next.
I kind of have a good idea of what would be in that video.
The other problem with Rey winning that fight is that it really establishes Kylo-ren as a terrible villain. He already had temper tantrums and acts like a kid. ( should have left that mask on. ) Later he can't even beat a jedi with no training. Why should we even fear him? He's nothing compared to Darth Vader.
For a real-life example of a hero, there's Audie Murphy, who has been called the real Captain America. He was small and sickly but was finally accepted into the army after lying about his age, and then went on to become the most decorated soldier of WWII, winning every award for valor that his country had to offer, as well as medals from Belgium. His most famous action involved climbing atop a burning tank destroyer and using its gun to hold off six German tanks and a couple hundred foot soldiers, while also calling in artillery strikes on his own position. He recieved wounds in both legs (and this was shortly after he had been in the hospital where five pounds of gangrenous flesh had been removed from an infected hip wound), but he refused treatment until after he had lead a counter attack after the German troops retreated. For this action he was awarded the Medal of Honor. After the war he suffered greatly from PTSD and became addicted to sleeping pills. He was one of the first people to really speak up about the mental health of veterans, though he didn't live long enough to see much progress made.
he wasnt the most decorated. It just looked that way because he was small so the medals look bigger.
@@doyourownresearch7297 dude.
Amazing story. Thanks for sharing.
What’s funny about the Spider-Man: Homecoming one is that in Spider-Man: No Way Home, it’s the complete polar opposite.
You could say that about some parts of Far From Home (especially the ending scenes), but it’s much more apparent with No Way Home.
Peter gets his most severe punishments for every bad choice he makes (including losing Aunt May after attempting to cure the sinister 6 in their house goes horribly wrong), and yet he is already severely punished anyway by the start of the movie because after Mysterio’s expose on him, everyone knows who he is and it’s affecting his personal life around him.
Unlike Homecoming, Iron Man isn’t there to help him out this time for obvious reasons (neither is Dr Strange for half of the movie after Peter deliberately traps him in the Mirror dimension), and most of the bad choices he makes are from his own fault and lack of warning from his remaining friends.
He does get help from the other Spidermen in the end in order to beat the challenge of changing the sinister 6 AFTER he has his worst punishment of Losing Aunt May, and while the rest of the sinister 6 are easily cured, Green Goblin is more difficult and tests Peter to the point where he almost kills him as revenge.
And lastly he really grows as a character when he chooses NOT to tell Ned, MJ and his close allies that he’s Spider-Man again and sacrifices his own prior identity in order to stay Spider-man only.
There’s definitely some issues that show up (EG: They Find the Sinister 6 really easily. The Sinister 6 are mostly cannon fodder compared to the Green Goblin), but it’s neat to know that the movie really did improve on the many faults of Spider-Man Homecoming’s Peter Parker.
Well said
Tried watching Homecoming with a few friends. We generally don't like marvel movies, but we do care abour Spiderman. We stopped watching about 15 mintues in lol
Um, there were only five of them at that point.
Great analysis. This is one of the reasons why No Way Home is an amazing movie and not just a fan service fun superhero movie. Peter gets challenged throughout the movie, he makes choices and faces consequences, and the movie hammers the theme of responsibility.
I also think Far From Home is better than Homecoming because of how it challenges Peter. He trusts Mysterio with EDITH glasses, and Mysterio gets access to a ton of deadly drones. He gets fooled by Mysterio's illusions and reveals all the friends that know about the illusions and now Peter's friends are in danger. Finally, Peter beats Mysterio by being Spider-Man with his own ingenuity and spidey sense. He realizes he doesn't need to become the next Iron Man but rather improve himself as spider-man.
Definitely
i know that sometimes various LotR heroes are just assumed to be heroic, but no, they have to work very hard and that fits with several of your examples.
Oh absolutely. They suffer and overcome.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty same thing with the characters in my story that I have been working on for some time.
Tolkien's heroes show his Christian influence (lembas = communion host, for example) and its values of humility and sacrifice. Frodo was the hero, but was mutilated, stabbed, poisoned, and never truly recovered until he went into the West.
On of my favorite protagonists is Puss In Boots from The Last Wish. He's initially portrayed as this skilled but overconfident sword duelist, but after losing his eighth life, he suffers a defeat from the movie's villain, Death. Over the course of the story, Death chides Puss, shoves him around, and serves as both a physical and metaphorical manifestation of Puss's fear of death itself. At the very end, after he's run from Death three times, he's given the choice to either wish his lives back or face Death and go down swinging. After he fights Death, he realizes that he can never defeat him, and Death realizes that Puss no longer deserves to die and walk away.
The reason this works is because Puss faces impossible challenges and doesn't overcome them at all. Instead, he realizes that he would rather have his one life than nine others, and he accepts that he can never defeat Death the concept or death the being.
Best hero: Mark from invincible, a relatable morally good teenager that is brutally challenged during the series by his father, his mom, his girlfriend and his superhero teammates. Theres little i would change about him.
Worst hero: Captain marvel from the mcu. Overopowered, unchallenged, boring and just overly protected by the franchise she is in.
I second this, especially about Captain Marvel. It was ironically funny, especially the final fight, with that absurd looking one punch move against the antagonist.
Yeah Captain Marvel really baffles me because the writers choose to put her against the weakest villains possible. Here you have this super powerful hero, yet her opposition ends up being some joke of a villain that even Captain America would beat without much trouble.
Mark is invincible, but his girlfriend is insufferable.
Captain Marvel is worse than just being badly written. She commits what I consider to be the cardinal sin of writing: She's specifically made to antagonize (a part of) the audience. No irony, no sarcasm, no wit, no subversion. She exists to fulfill the writer's self-insertion and political aspirations, while purposefully degrading and abusing Men as a monolith. She's written from a place of sheer ego and spite.
I'd rather eat the most poorly made but well intended meal, than one that the chef willfully poisoned in front of me. Captain Marvel is literary poison.
Why do you hate women?
I grew up with Tobey's Spider-Man and I always saw him as the definition of a real hero, especially the seconde movie. He's pushed to the point of quitting his role in order to have a normal life like he always wanted to but his sense of responsability is too strong to let people suffer while standing by. He's face with a dilemma and finally decide to sacrifice his dream of a normal life to be a hero and inspire people. I still get goosebumps from Aunt May's speech
His Spider-Man definitely influenced my pre-teen development lol. I named my cat Tobey and fell in love with a man who chooses to suffer rather than let anyone else ❤️🩹
Your criticisms of "Superman" are fair, though I put it to you that the movie is less about the physical challenges, and more about showing that there is still room for decency a world that isn't even sure what is worth valuing. That's where the heart of the movie is. All the same, you're not wrong that better physical challenges would have been in order.
To put it a little differently, a lot of the point of Superman isn't what he does, but what he DOESN'T do.
You open an interesting door here. Sometimes, writing itself needs context in time. Superman came out in an era where there was a lot of "every good guy dies" really depressing movies. The mood of the nation at that time was definitely a bit more dark and depressed. Like there was no good any more. They killed JFK, then they killed MLK and RFK. The men trying to do good kept getting murdered. We needed some form of hope, and Superman really personifies hope more than anything else. Despite Snyder's version being panned, the Russell Crowe speech on first flight hits the narrative core. "You will give the people of earth an ideal to stive towards."
Superman II also did a great job as a sequel in giving Superman villains on an equal footing, while at the same time giving him an internal struggle to deal with. This is why SMII is much more highly regarded than than SMI
I'm going to use examples of Disney heroines:
The worst: Asha from "Wish" because she doesn't suffer, every single person besides the bad guy agrees with everything she says, and her only "flaw" according to the film makers is that "oh, she just cares too much" when NO single person asked to be cared for or showed suffering
The best: Belle from "Beauty and the Beast" because she is viewed by others as either being an oddball or just pretty despite her being intelligent, she has to make a sacrifice to save her father, and she not only developes as a hero but also helps develop the Beast in his arc
I'm not sure about Belle, but Asha is really the worst... For me, the best hero is Pavel Korchagin from "How the Steel Was Tempered" (yes, it's a book, not a movie). He changes, he grows above himself, he doubts, tests his convictions for strength and at the same time lives a full life, despite an incurable disease. It is especially touching that this is essentially an artistically reworked biography of the author.
19:10 thank you for saying “finally:” when it’s the last bullet point- makes taking notes much easier XD
No problem! I'm still amazed people take notes while watching my videos. Glad they're helping!
Great video man.
Going back to The Cap, if you think about it, it's incredible his entire character arc through Avengers.
Despite winning against evil, he has to pay with *losing his friend (Bucky) in the war and not being able to fulfill his love with Carter.
Imagine being resurrected in this very different reality, then it is until Civil War that he is able to recover Bucky, at the cost of having to fight almost to the death against his friend-rival Tony Stark.
And you have to wait until the end of Endgame, and only thanks to movie magic, that he is able to go back into the past and finally reunite with Carter.
It's still my favorite MCU Avenger, and I'm not even American!
His decision to drop his shield and get pummeled by Bucky gripped me. "Because I'm with you all the way." So good.
*Losing (not "loosing").
Find/Lose - opposites with four letters.
Tight/Loose - opposites with five letters.
Easy way to remember which spelling to use. Hope that helps. Have a good day.
@@Eidolon1andOnly that actually helps me a lot. I always forget which one to use. That is one hero cheat code I will be using. lol
@@houddythequeen Another easy way to remember is that "lost" only has one O in it, so the present/future tense of "lost" will also have only one O in them as well.
Not to mention in Winter Soldier where his entire new world is thrown upside down again and he finds he can't trust anyone. Turns out his WW2 nemesis Hydra has corrupted SHIELD AND they're using his brainwashed best friend to do so. That entire second movie is an insane test for him as a character and his values.
at 4:30 you say Lex somehow finds out superman's weakness is kryptonite... but it was printed in the interview Lois Lane wrote. The bad writing is Lex Luthor's leap in logic that pieces of Krypton made it to earth and in the span of what is a few hours and at most one or two days, finds a meteor in africa and comes back to set his plan in motion
Think she only prints that his home planet was krypton and maybe was destroyed, but nothing about it being deadly to him (Lex makes that leap on his own somehow). But Superman also has the brilliant idea of telling her he can't see through lead, which she might have published to the whole world to read 🙃
In this movie's defence, it looks like it was written for kids (or even BY kids)
@@davidhubber6977 I would have been happier if Lex's train of thought had been, "what can kill Superman, except a weapon made of material from his world?" From there Lex would have to find materials that arrived on earth at the same time Superman did, and then discovered that one of them emitted a "harmless" radiation. Which would get Lex thinking, "harmless to us, but to him ... ?" The story could easily have provided just a little more information for Lex to work with, so that we could say he's smart enough to connect the dots.
The final detail would be to just have a scene where Lex tests his kryptonite hypothesis, by having Otis disguise himself as an old lady trying to cross the street, with a tiny bit of kryptonite on him. So when Superman swoops down to help him, he'd notice that Superman was wobbly on his feet. Or some scene like that.
@@kingbeauregard The main problem is that kryptonite never made much logical sense. Why would a race that has space travel continue to live on a planet that's toxic to them and prevents them from basically being gods? Why would a species evolve that's weakened by exposure to the ground of the planet it evolved on? There's no way a smart person would logic out the effects of kryptonite without seeing it in action.
Thank you for the deep dive on the MCU Spider-Man! I’ve always felt that everyone likes his character, but I’ve always seen him as “pampered” because of him being handed gadgets and grants left and right from Tony and he always gets out of trouble. Whereas Toby and Andrew’s Spider-Men were constantly facing the consequences of their tough decisions and more often than not doing hero work without safety nets. That made them much more compelling characters in my book.
I'm not a fan of the Rocky sequels, but the first movie is one of my favorites, ever. His character is so deep. It looks like a sports movie, but it's a character study, instead.
And at the moment they are announcing the judges' scorecards, we can hear the anouncer in the *background* while Rocky screams for his girl in the foreground, highlighting just how unimportant the actual result of the competition is. He's already won in his heart, and he doesn't even need to listen to the results.
That final scene is the one that truly makes that movie sing!
You're spot-on. I even how our view of Apollo is obstructed during that final scene--further emphasizing the idea that the outcome of the match isn't what really matters
Great movie and it gets better on every watch.
Watch the scene where Creed is doing a TV interview almost in the background while Rocky’s sitting at the bar. The bartender makes a disparaging remark about Creed being a rich show-off. You maybe expect Rocky to meekly agree, as he’s had kind of a rough week, but instead he’s super offended and tells off the bartender for criticizing a guy who is the best in the world at something and who must have had insane inner strength to even attempt it much less get there. That’s what Rocky is about.
The best hero is Samwise Gamgee. This isn't up for debate.
Absolutely. A lot of Sams died in WWI and WWII to keep western civilization civilized.
14:51, like how Harry Potter never directly fights Voldemort until the climax of the fourth book and (even though he survives), he doesn’t unambiguously best Voldemort in direct confrontation until the climax of the seventh book
climax.
While Harry was shown as a pretty strong wizard, it was a good decision not to make him stronger than Voldemort. However, he wins because Voldemort is being stupid and keeps trying to kill him with an already failed method.
@@xxlCortez True. Voldemort embodies the idea that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail
@@matityaloran9157 the problem with that is his past. Young Tom Riddle was shown as a more subtle and less direct type of guy who relies on cunning over brute strength.
@ True
Brandon, I celebrate every one of your videos. You're doing great work for the writing community.
I just wish more modern film and television show creators would watch your videos--they've lost their way.
Thank you!
the good writers wont get jobs due to DEI. Those who do will submit or else they will lose position and status in the woke DEI corporate world. Being woke enough becomes like armour even if you are toxic as all hell - you cant be criticised or else the woke mob makes things terrible for everyone.
Agreed, major movie studios, TAKE NOTES!
Something I've found with a lot of recent stories, the only difference between the heroes and villains is that the villains suffer the consequences for their actions!
My two favorite fictional heroes will always be Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor (taking into account only the first two movies of their respective franchises) but in recent years, Edward and Alphonse Elric have been pretty high up the list too. One of the main themes of the whole Fullmetal Alchemist saga is that actions have consequences and the brothers journey is about seeking redemption without causing further suffering to others.
Mine is Rey Skywalker and the black dude they made almost absent from Chinese promotion because they have zero principles.
Right on. Ripley is the GOAT.
For me, and I know I sing this show’s praises to death, but the best set of heroes, yes not just one hero, is from “Avatar: The Last Airbender”. It’s hard to pick just one hero where the entire hero group is amazing. I’ll try to keep it brief. First you have the head honcho himself, Avatar Aang. He’s a 12 year kid who values life even in its darkest forms. Katara is the last water bender from her tribe and struggles to learn at first but then finds help in the north. Sokka isn’t a bender at all and is just a quirky guy with a big heart. At some point he’s left to question his worth because he lacks any bending ability. Toph is as blind as a bat but learned how to perceive her surroundings through her earth bending ability. There’s too many stuff to talk about and I’d encourage you to watch this show if you haven’t.
The worst hero, is honestly hard to pick for me because there’s so many, especially in the modern era, that are just too perfect. You gave one example which is Rey, she had potential at least but then Disney fricked it up. She’s just one of many unfortunately and many of them over shadow some amazing characters such as Star Wars’ own Finn.
I would argue that Zuko is the true unsung and grossly unappreciated hero. His journey not only mirrors Aang's but also exceeds it and becomes even more relatable and realistic.
I need to watch ATLA. I'm almost done with AoT, so I might try Avatar as my next anime
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty It's technically not an anime but still a must watch.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Just finished watching it again yesterday in fact. Still holds up, still perfect.
The first captain America movie is so underrated. It’s an amazing origin movie.
A 19 minute Good vs Bad!? And here I thought Christmas was a few weeks ago!
Haha thanks... It was almost a 25ish minute video, but I scrapped a couple examples
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Honestly, I never realize how long your videos are, because I'm so engrossed. My first reaction to this comment was "no WAY that was 19 minutes, it felt like 7 or 8!"
The difference is: bad heroes are either one-dimensional, Mary Sue writer self-inserts, and/or too stupid or obnoxious to be taken seriously. Good heroes on the other hand, are relatable yet good, represent good values, and/or change for the better in a natural way.
If we stop and analyze a LOT of hero films from the 70-90s in particular in good faith, you'd see example after example after example of Mary Sues that became icons. So, Hollywood nor the general public have a problem with them...until they're played by women. And that's because female roles are scrutinized more, and suddenly when women are playing a part as countless male heroes played them (unless written by James Cameron), people will notice that it's b.s. and have something to say. But it says a lot that it takes a gender swap for people to notice.
What's funny is that the same guy who made Rey that way is the same guy who made my most disliked version of Captain Kirk, just handing him things over and over when he should have been kicked out of Starfleet. I hate a character that fails upwards, and that was Kirk. That scene where he makes Spock attack him and then gets to sit in the Captain's chair thereafter ticked me off so much because of how ridiculous it was.
Well at least we can finally agree such characters suck? Or will we justify certain ones over others? Hmm.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin I think you're giving a very insightful analysis but that it's not the only variable to take into consideration.
It seems like people are getting more and more picky and difficult to please, and what worked in the 70es / 80es does not work anymore now. Plus there is a real fatigue on watching the same tropes over and over again, when they were fresher back then.
That being said, gender does have something to do with this; I'm convinced Captain Marvel would still be considered a bad movie if the hero was a man, but it would be much less hated. I think it would just be quickly forgotten
@@LadyAstarionAncunin U MAY HAVE A POiNT, i DON'T KNOW 4 SURE, HAVEN'T REALLY WATCHED STAR TREK OR THAT MANY 1970'Z SHOWZ, BUT U DO SOUND OBNOXiOUZ MAN ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
@@LadyAstarionAncunin lol or those action movies had smaller target audiences than star wars...
Iron Man is probably the most loved MCU supehero and he is the least relateable character in the whole franchise, unless you are a philandering billionaire. Most people are not but they want to be and that's why they root for the guy and overlook the fact that he is also a Mary Sue. He is a genius billionaire, I mean can you get more OP? And when he faces the concequences of his, let's face it, evil actions a disposable kind hearted man saves him. And the result of all these is that he makes an 180 and becomes a hero. Is this the natural way? Of course not!
Now search this (and others) comment section and find a comment, other than mine, that says that Iron Man is not an example of a good hero. Or better yet, imagine if he was a woman...
Could you do a video on stucturing stories around a morally grey protagonist? Or even centering it around a villain?
I'll definitely be covering antiheroes and morally grey characters in the future. I get a lot of requests about this.
Villain Protagonists...hmm. I'll think about it. If you want a dark and sinister book with a villain protag, check out "And The Devil Cried" by Kristopher Triana. Absolutely gripping.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty if you do this video, it'd be great to include D-Fens from the underrated classic Falling Down
@@WriterBrandonMcNultysay one of the characters I have in one of the stories I have in mind is bit of an anti hero. To put it this way, they’re kind of like The Man With No Name, Dirty Harry, and John Wick all in one. Also somewhat like the Driver from Drive (2011). Not a villain but I just thought I’d share it.
I always had a bad feeling about Homecoming, and I finally see why thanks to this great vid. Guess that means I'm a writer at heart.
Superman the movie was a setup for the next film The Richard Donner Cut of Superman 2. When Superman takes missile into space, the explosion releases supervillians from the Phantom Zone. As the villians make way to earth, superman decide to become human and then has to get his powers back after they attack. He even gets beaten up and also endure the ice cold snow. He did suffer.
The best hero is whoever doesn't want to become one, but goes beyond his flaws and limitations while hearing the calling for the sake of others.
In a way, Capt. America's moral code is also his weak point- he tends to impose his sense of morality on others. That is where he differs from Iron Man who is more pragmatic.
Speaking of which, how about a video discussing the morality of the Sokovia Accords in Capt. America: Civil War.
This won't be an easy one as Tony's actions to support the accord have moral weight- an indirect consequence of Age of Ultron, and he was trying to make amends for it- unlike the comic version where he agreed in general with the government.
That and there had been like, 50-60 IRL years of comics specifically showing that registration was a bad thing with the X-Men beforehand...
Rey was a poorly-written hero, but Kylo Ren was an abysmally badly written villain. At no point could I take him seriously as an adversary.
Yes he was probably the worse character. Given the original bunch of homeric characters as they were introduced in TFA, a good vilain could have made the movie so much better.
When Kylo Ren had his whiny outbursts, I actually laughed out loud in the theater. "Really?! HE's the Bad Guy?"
I agree with your overall point. I disagree with your first examples: Superman the Movie was not a bad version of a hero. Nor was Lex a bad version of a villain. Lex used a supersonic whistle to lure Superman into his lair and faked Superman into discovering his own demise -- the kryptonite he held in a lead case that Superman couldn't see thru. The way it was done ensured that he couldn't be held liable for Superman's death because he told Superman not to look in the box. Then, he hacked missile commands to make it seem like ussr and us fired missiles at each other and diverted them to fly in opposite directions because he believed superman wasn't fast enough to stop both of them.
Superman saved the world and diverted one misile to space but he realized that he couldn't stop the other one in time, so he chose to repair the damage that it had done, instead. But in doing so he realized that that plan didn't work because Lois died. THEN, comes the most ICONIC and emotional moment in not only CBM history but in cinema as a whole. Superman kissed Lois' lifeless body and then he CRIED! Then he was filled with a tremendous amount of rage and he flew (to what I thought he was going to find Lex and kill him) but his parents memories stopped him...his moral compass was compromised...his dad told him not to interfere with human history...he then rejected his own feelings and his dad's wishes and flew faster than anything had ever flown before--near the speed of light and time reversed directions. that wasn't a "ctrl Z"... that was him simultaneously proving himself, his dad, AND Lex Luthor wrong! Because he didn't do it for selfish reasons, like his father was was trying to prevent him from being a villain, he did it to save the most amount of people. He proved that Lex was wrong in thinking that he wasn't fast enough to stop both missiles. Then he threw Lex in prison, proving to himself that even though Lex hurt him, revenge wasn't worth him sacrificing the things that made him human.
This right here, man, this right here. Very well stated.
are you ten years old?
Thank you for your comment, you make more sense than the author of the video, when it comes to Superman. I feel sometimes this generation does not understand the him. But superman the movie is till one of most iconic movies of all time and always will be.
Interestingly, Far From Home seems to remedy all of the problems Brandon brought up about Homecoming.
The conflict of trying not to have his identity revealed? That's one of the strongest weapons the villain uses against Peter. Mysterio even leaks it by the end and it has devestating consequences going forward.
Peter not solving his own problems? He does get assisted early on, but that was from Mysterio intentionally being a showman. This turns what could have been an unintentionally hollow victory into something intentional. Going forward, he has no choice but to take on Mysterio on his own due to his ability to mimic others with illusions. By the end, the fight is fairly close, but he comes out on top, but not without the aforementioned massive loss.
Peter accepting his role as Iron Man's heir by the end in a way that's unearned? Peter get E.D.I.T.H. early on and believes he is unfit, and his logic is sound. However, after seeing what Stark's tech could do in the hands of a villain and proving he is a capable hero, he's ready to accept his role as someone who continues Stark's legacy of heroism.
Then he pays a lot of costs and suffering in No Way Home
I enjoyed Spider-Tom much more in FFH and NWH. NWH especially.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty What is your opinion on the Amazing Spider-Man 1 ? I think it's pretty underrated.
My nomination for worst movie hero is pretty much any Steven Seagal character. Every Seagal movie features a bland, boring, unchallenged super cop/SEAL/commando/whatever who tears through flimsy bad guys without breaking a sweat. Seagal heroes are rarely challenged, they don’t grow as people, they don’t struggle with their value system, and nothing is learned.
Mentioning Seagal's characters as worst heroes is like playing a Joker card 😂
@@siegfriedmordrake3229 Not only that but the fights aren't even interesting. Towards the middle part of his career it was just 'everybody flaps their arms around and we'll shake the camera to hide how bad the fight choreography is.'
Bruce Lee characters were often really dominant, but at least when Bruce Lee won a fight it felt satisfying.
Agree, tho in Under Siege he is tested and more interesting. I recall thinking after seeing the sequel how his character just coasted though the train rescue and that made it a bit boring despite a pretty interesting villain setup.
@richie2073 that's probably his only decent movie 🤣
@@siegfriedmordrake3229 Under Siege wasn’t terrible. Definitely Seagal’s best and one of the better “Die Hard on a Gimmick” entries that came out around then. There was some really weird stuff in that movie, though… Gary Busey in drag, Tommy Lee Jones eating roast beef with his hands on the bridge, every scene Erika Eleniak was in…
Definitely agree on Spider-Man: Homecoming. It was a huge disappointment not only because Peter wasn't challenged but also because of how the movie failed to build sympathy for him. In the Raimi and Webb movies, Peter is facing financial struggles, school bullies, Uncle Ben's death, balancing his own superpowers, etc. On the other hand, Homecoming Peter is a super smart kid, well liked by his peers and teachers, Flash is just a nuisance to him, not a physical bully, and he has no family problems. He just wants to be as cool as Iron Man. Fine, you want to make this version an unlikable egoistical kid who would eventually learn responsibility. However, like you said, the safety net problem comes. Every time there is a problem, the writers solve it for Peter. I also didn't really like how Peter grew after Iron Man takes away his suit. Yeah, he fights Vulture with his own homemade suit and webs but I thought the fight was pretty underwhelming. Vulture managed to beat Peter in a few seconds when he had a technologically advanced suit and yet Peter manages to beat him in the climax despite lacking all of that and being severely wounded. Then like you said, Peter rejecting the suit has no real value because he thought it was a test and although he doesn't join the avengers, he still gets the suit.
There are also a ton of other reasons why this movie is my least favorite (its still decent) like lack of compelling supporting characters and goofy humor but the main problem is that Peter's arc has a lot of shortcomings.
You nailed it. And I forgot to bring up Flash in this video. The worst thing he does is call Peter “Penis Parker” and this version of Flash is wimpy/nerdy, which means Peter doesn’t get much of a challenge from him.
Homecoming’s flaws are everywhere, but most people excuse them because the movie is smoothed over with layers of slick humor. Strip those layers away and you’re left with the weakest Spider-Man movie.
@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thanks for the reply !! Means a lot to me.
Also I totally agree. That running gag was pretty unfunny for me and didn't challenge Peter much or build sympathy for him. He is a well respected high school nerd. Who cares about some disliked and academically poor student badmouthing him ? This is another aspect the Amazing movies Excell in as they made Flash a compelling character.
New Brandon video along with the breakfast, that's the way to start a day.
Judging by the timestamp, you must be across the Atlantic. Thanks for watching!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty That's right, just across the pond! Love the channel. Each new thumbnail puts a smile on my face.
We don’t acknowledge the Disney Star Wars movies. They’re a bad dream
For me the best example of an excellent "cheat code" hero power moment would be when Prince Zukko directs lightning for the first time. It comes exactly when he needs it to save his life, but it only comes because he confronts his inner demons and his father. It's an amazing scene, an amazing demonstration of character growth, and a badass new power to gain.
Off topic of sorts, but I sort of wish in Korra that when the lightning benders are powering the generators there would have been a beat where of them drops with his chest on fire or exploded from not accurately redirecting the lighting around the heart. Would have at least demonstrated that industrial use of bending came with casualties.
Hero of Time Link got to be my favourite hero. His life is a constant struggle in which he never really gets full recognition for. He just accepts his fate. Gosh is it sad and depressing...
Not to sound like a Hallmark card, but: I nominate Mr. Rogers as the best hero.
Think about it. He was kind, empathetic, and genuinely cared about the well-being of children. He taught us about feelings, acceptance, and the importance of being good neighbors. Sure, he lacked the ability to fly or shoot lasers from his eyes, but he possessed a superpower far more potent: the power of kindness.
Rey beating Kylo in the first movie threw me too. I knew it was a mistake.
How about this instead: Rey beats and kills Kylo. Whoah. We were not expecting that, huh? And it would synch up with her being a Palaptine, on the optimistic assumption they had any plan at all.
Despite the problems with the final season of game of thrones, i liked the arc of Theon Greyjoy. Trying to protect Brandon, not because he had any hope he could defeat the Night King, but simply because it was the right thing to do. That was a nice moment in S8.
I'm very tired so I may have to watch this again in the morning, but I'll do my best to get some thoughts now!
"I think he even uses the Rare Candy glitch"
I think you're now obligated to cover pokemon at some point after that one lol.
Don't care what, just anything pokemon related.
I'm sure there's something to be said about Mewtwo's famous speech
"get ready cause today, we're diving into the world of monster taming"
Haha I'm glad someone caught the reference!
I think he'd have an interesting time analyzing the third movie, since it had a tragic antivillain whose actions flowed naturally from her core motivations and had a character arc where she came to terms with the loss of her family. It's some legitimately good character writing.
@@teddyhaines6613 honestly I’d just love to see him rank the Pokémon movies, there’s so much “Good vs Bad” he can do, and just covering something for Kids in general would be nice, it’s rare we get good lessons on how to write for kids in any writing channel honestly. Even review channels that do specifically kids media can only tell so much. For writers who want to write for kids there’s definitely fewer resources/examples
Did you read my mind or something? You just posted just what I needed. What a good day.
Glad it helped!
Rey is definitely the worst hero and the only hero that I refuse to spend another dollar on watching from either home or the big screen.
Great choice of types... and amusing names for them.
Thanks!
Going on a weeb tanget, I really like Edward Elric - guy has simple goals, and while the way he explains it might make it seem like he is out for just himself and his bro, he does help literally everyone he can, constantly taking on burden and guilt from others, always going out of his way to do things harder than needed because he just can't conform to militaristic efficiency over ethics, refusing to kill even psychopaths trying to skewer him because to him, every life has worth. Overall, just lovely, whole story truly embodies ideas of exchange and sacrifice, and there's little he won't sacrifice for his friends, family, and morals.
I chuckled at the "Easy Mode" hero for the same reason I do when a _Three Stooges_ short starts with someone bringing on "THREE new men"; it seems so obvious where the setup is going that it's almost unnecessary. But then it turned out _not_ to be Rey, subverting my expectations completely!
But then she turns up later under "Cheat Code" hero, because she is the Platonic Ideal of a badly-written hero and any discussion on them that doesn't include her is disingenuous on its face.
Although, not enough people commented on the "How are they going to keep her interesting if she can kick the main villain's ass right away?" problem, but trust me, it didn't go unnoticed by all of us.
Yeah. It's especially egregious in video games with those bosses you repeatedly fight. Like "I beat you easily, and you're coming after me again like you somehow have a chance? Buddy... I assure you. This WILL be like last time."
Outstanding criticism.
This video should be required viewing for anyone who works in the movie industry.
To try and redeem star wars a bit, may I say I always love Ashoka Tano as an amazing hero.
I’m fond of Snips too but not the stoic live action version 🤔
Ashoka is a good example! In the Clone Wars series she is a great "safety net" hero, she makes mistakes and is constantly saved but she's being punished (by others and herself) and eventually grows to be the safety net for the Rebels heroes. She makes a great sacrifice there standing up for her values and when she's eventually saved she returns seemingly overpowered (in The Clone Wars final season) but again she loses everything that's valueable to her. Finally, in the Ahsoka series, she is a little OP again but she still needs to learn more about herself, she struggles and loses in the end but that seems to be the final lesson she needs.
My favorite Star Wars hero is Ahsoka Tano. She has failures and immaturity in the being of Clone Wars and then grows so much throughout the rest of the series.
and loses it all by deciding to leave the Order after being found innocent 🤔
@@skepticalsmurf That is a really difficult to watch because no one wanted to see Anakin and Asoka separate. But she didn’t like that the Jedi Council treated her as guilty before she could have a fair trail. This was a big step for her to become her own person. It was also crucial for Anakin’s fall to the dark side. No wonder he saw the council as corrupt after how they misjudged his padawan…
@@isabellagonzales7857
My problem with that is that it makes him look even stupider by trusting Palpatine. It should have been firmly planted in his mind to trust absolutely no one fully, not just the council.
Cap's interlude as a "chorus girl" for war bonds also explains away his crazy brightly colored uniform that nobody would ever wear into battle. So much about that movie was very clever. It's one of my favorites of the Marvel movies.
The worse is not Superman, rather Captain Marvel for the same reasons only worse. The best and my favorite is Atticus Fitch from to kill a Mockingbird.
I'd love to hear Brandon's take on James Bond over the decades. Depending on the actor and the movie, 007's been a real Good and a real Bad hero.
It’s like the writers liked Tom Holland too much to make him suffer 😂
I think it was their obsession in making it all connected to the wider MCU and getting the Robert Downey fans.
either that or they heard from comic fans just how tired they are of watching spiderman suffer... which I mean... fair, that's kind of the big issue with modern spider man.
Peter just can't catch a break.
@xShadowChrisx this goes back to one of the problems I had with what he gives as a good hero. Does a good hero HAVE to suffer? Or have we become so used to delegating every good quality to heroes so much that they aren't allowed to be an actual character because they carry every good intention of the story on their back? Does a hero lack interesting qualities because they're a hero, or because we've made them uninteresting?
@@xavierthomas5835 I think suffering is just a cheat code to connect the audience to them, but I think just as many actual teens connected with modern peter. I mean there's a lot to connect to even if it seems like the adults are "bailing him out" which... I mean that's what kids are *supposed* to get.
I think a lot of kids relate to that feeling of the adults talking down not taking you seriously, and it's not like peter doesn't suffer from his choices, I just rewatched that movie and I mean, yeah he loses the girl, he's called and thought of as a loser by all his classmates for constantly bailing on them. He still suffers, it's just not at *every* chance.
Ultimately interesting is in the eye of the beholder, but that's also not a good excuse... I mean some even really smart people thought *rey* was a good or interesting character in the first movie...
@@xShadowChrisxthe problem is, in the comics it just feels mean spirited at this point, almost like torture porn.
The Riami movies for example made Peter suffer in relatable, earnest and sincere ways. And THAT worked.
I really appreciate a lot of your content, Brandon! If you don't mind a modest critique, the only thing that bothers me in this video is the flagrant use of the word "sucks." I feel that resorting to such "low-shelf" words undermines your credibility. As a writer, I think you could be far more creative in your word choice. I get it - "sucks" and "works" might appeal from a simplistic perspective - but I think you might benefit from a bit more sophistication. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
Could you maybe do a video with how to write a good argument scene? As in climactic arguments that maybe drive two characters apart
I watched rocky for the first time a couple years ago. I can totally see why it won an oscar. It's incredibly well put together
I think it would have been so interesting if they'd added a different type of layer to the character of Rey. She was abandoned when she was a young child, and has basically grown-up on her own. If she didn't scavenge enough every day, she literally wouldn't eat. This would have caused some anti-social traits that she would have had to overcome throughout the trilogy. Plus, if they added one or two friends that were killed as they tried to join her and Finn when they were first escaping on the Millennium Falcon, that could had added more depth. She might have been a selfish character, just wanting to get off of Jakku and lead a different life, but the death of her friends could have caused her to want revenge against the First Order. I don't know - just ANYTHING to make her more interesting! Also, I'd like to add that Spider Man No Way Home is a great example of a good character. He makes some bad mistakes and ends up losing everything because of it. They definitely up the ante with his suffering level in that film! :)
I LOVE your channel and every episodes becomes my favorite video of the day. You break down ideas into digestible nuggets that are easily grasped by everyone.
I am going to point out an absolute train wreck of writing called 'you can't run forever' which has a really good star to support it in J.K. Simmons but the writing is a master class on how to 'not write' a story. Talk about bad hero versus villain conflict. Trust me. You might want to check it out for a future instructional video.
If you have a bad vs good for heroes, why not for villains.
Damnit McNulty! Why do you have to post at midnight! I’m trying to sleep but now I have to watch this whole video!
Hahaha I'll try not to conflict with your bedtime in the future
One of the things I LOVE about The Magicians is every protagonist has a weakness.
Hi Brandon, aspiring epic fantasy writer here, without a creative writing background. Really benefit from your vids. They're snappy and dense, and I benefit from the systematic thinking you encourage. I've noticed that your videos tend to focus on theme, plot, and characters and the issues surrounding them, but I don't recall seeing as many videos of yours covering issues revolving around setting (when and where). What happens when a setting is poorly established, or the wrong setting is chosen for a story? Just some ideas for you to consider for future vids!
"Snappy and dense" haha thanks! I'll see about bringing more setting-related stuff into my videos.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Awesome! Heh shoot, inelegance of words...by dense I mean efficiently packed with useful information, not dense in the sense of impenetrable, just to be clear! The good kind of dense.
To be fair to the Superman example, the appeal of that movie was being able to have a live action superhero with powers on the big screen. It was about the spectacle of it all. That said, you're 100% right.
First 2 seasons of the animated show Trollhunters shows some great writing and the right kind of hero- Jim Lake is kicked down again and again but adapts and overcomes using creativity, building relationships, grit, and help from others.
Best hero I've ever met is Stormblessed Kaladin of Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive. Throughout the first 4 books, he only manages to get new abilities by making oaths, losing friends sometimes. I love the way he's suffering and even trying to commit suicide - which the Stormfather doesn't let him of course. If you hadn't you should check it out, it well worth the over 1200 pages for each book.
I love your channel, really helpful for my writing hobby. Also, for the Easy Mode Hero, you should've put 2008 Clone Wars Anakin.
2008 Anakin? The one who constantly gets away with war crimes?
I kept thinking Rey would be the "Hero" you used for each segment.....she fits them all!
About Captain America and Marvel: I don't remember exactly which one, but there was a critique video that highlighted how Steve's and Tony's character arcs mirror each other. At the beginning, Steve is entirely devoted to sacrificing himself for others; he is loyal to the government and the army, with a strict moral code that leaves no room for compromise. On the other hand, Tony starts as a self-centered genius who cares only about himself. By the end, Steve chooses to pursue his own happiness, reuniting with the love of his life, while Tony makes the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. There's something profoundly poetic about this-and I doubt Marvel will ever achieve such narrative depth again.
I think about the moment in Avengers: End Game when Cap straps his shield on his wounded arm to stand up against thanos and his whole army. Such an incredible moment of heroism!
As a longtime Spider-Man fan, I've criticized the first movie for many of these reasons---Spider-Man was never his own person in this movie, his reliance on Iron Man and the suits provided completely negated his need for even having/learning about his own powers and how to be a hero
Far from the first Spiderman movie but I appreciate you're points all the same.
@road_king_dude the first of that trilogy. Most people understood what i meant
I'm surprised you didn't put captain marvel on the list
Glad to see footage of Ripley, even if we don't get a breakdown of how amazing she is. The greatest action hero of all time in my books. Aragorn, too.
For the “good” version of a coddled hero, you should have used the next 2 Tom Holland Spider-Man movies as a good comparison. He gets put in crappy positions BECAUSE of his powers, tries his best to navigate morally grey situations, fails, picks himself back up, and sacrifices his own safety/life/family. They really turned his version of Spider-Man around from the fairly weak start in Homecoming, and now I find him fantastic.
Great breakdown on Spider-Man Homecoming, been playing the computer games for Spider-Man and Mile Morales and they are constantly having to deal with the consequences of their actions.
Best hero- Wonder Woman from the 2017 film and the worst would be the same hero in Wonder Woman 1984. Loved "The Half Murders" btw and plan to pick up "Entry Wounds" next!
Thanks for checking out The Half Murders! Glad you enjoyed it. Please leave a brief Amazon review if possible. And I hope you love Entry Wounds--it was my favorite to write!
I'm sorry to say that you misread the Spider-Man scene. Peter DOES turn down the new suit because he realizes how inadequate he is as a superhero. The idea that Tony was testing him comes AFTER he turns it down (and Tony lies that it was indeed a test only to save face). So there was a lesson-a HUGE one-and he learned it.
I love Cap. He is heroic, principled and handsome! What's not to love! There are challenges along the way, but he ultimately stays true to his ideals.
Steve and Peggy are also the cutest couple in the MCU, and I appreciate that she gets to be great in her own right WITHOUT stealing away an ounce of Cap's worth or competence. Instead, they inspire each other.
When they shared that adorable dance in Endgame, I knew the MCU was over for me.
It's not the most original pick, but he is a classic for a reason. 💙
I miss the spoiler warnings. I guess the metrics said that some people stopped watching after them, but that's sort of the point!
The problems you listed about Homecoming are exactly why I like No Way Home, it pretty much fixes all of them. There are high stakes, dire consequences, challenged principles and sacrifice. Great conclusion after a pretty average first and second movie.
Great video again Brandon. Always love watching your content has helped me out a lot with my writing.
Bad hero: Captain Marvel and She Hulk. She Hulk masters anger because no how’s to deal with creeps and Captain Marvel is great already and she learns why she is great without really mattering to us.
Good heroes: I mean so many but if have to contrast Wonder Woman was written so great. She is powerful but naive and she suffers a loss of her love and she abandons society because of her mistrust in humankind. 2) Just to be different I have to go with my guys Woody and Buzz. The Toy Story characters in general are all written so great
I think a great example is Miles Morales in the Spiderverse movies. He's a character who doesnt want the powers and responsibilities that are put upon him and you can see this before he got his powers. He struggles to figure out how to use his powers but he still wants to do the right thing despite his difficult circumstances
While I definitely agree with most of your points on Spider-Man, I do have to push back on one. We have to remember that this is a movie about a teenager, so the consequences for them are going to be different than they would be for an adult. For most of the things you pointed out, that doesn't really matter. However, one that you kept hammering on feels a little empty to me. Teenagers experience consequences, but they rarely experience lasting consequences. Iron Man getting after him and telling him that he doesn't deserve the suit was a powerful moment and, based on his age and experience to that point, it was an excruciating loss, not only because he had grown accustomed to its support, but also because the moment he received the suit is the moment he really started identifying as Spider-Man. When that was taken away, so was his identity. He felt vulnerable, but he overcame that vulnerability for the good of the world. That, more than any of the other things you mentioned, is what made him a compelling character, and what made the movie enjoyable to someone like me, who was a teenager when the movie came out.
Always enjoy your videos 👍
You do not get Homecoming at all. He wasn't handed another love interest. There is nothing between them in the first movie. He he is saved by Iron man he loses face, which is what puts him on the quest to begin with. Saying he doesn't suffer in that movie is insane. He gets beat up, dumped, and his academic career suffers.
He doesn't turn down the suit because of any test. He comes up with that idea after he turned it down.
He totally earns the job offer from the Avengers. He saves them from tons of lawsuits and a public relations nightmare.
Can we all have a moment of silence for the Colonial Marines we tragically lost at Hadley’s Hope, the real hero’s of LV-426…
I think the biggest thing about Rocky that makes him so great is that the series is very honest about his limits. Even when he does manage to win, they go a long way to keep him from seeming invincible. In Rocky II when he beats Apollo, the movie makes it abundantly clear that he'd pretty much lost that fight and that all Apollo needs to do is stay away from him, and he wins. But ultimately this outcome plays on both Rocky's biggest strength, and Apollo's biggest (and really only) weakness. Rocky is not as good a boxer as Apollo is. Apollo is bigger, faster, and infinitely more skilled. Despite all of that Rocky's complete unwillingness to just accept defeat frustrates Apollo and hurts his pride. Thus in Round 15 of their second fight, Apollo's unwilling to accept another decision victory. Pride overcomes common sense and this last effort to prove his superiority over Rocky costs him everything. Ultimately, Rocky's greatest triumph comes as a great payoff of the characters they'd established over the last two movies.
As you said, it's Rocky unwillingness to accept defeat that makes him win, even not being as skilled as his opponents (in most cases), but even that is carried by people around him. He couldn't have done it alone.
There's an anime called the Irregular at magic High, it's hero is so perfect without suffering in any episode that I just felt more interested in seeing him get taken down!
Great video! Thank you!!
Hmm, I kinda disagree with you in the Spider Man part.
First of all, Spider Man isn't introduced in a isolated universe, he is introduced in a universe with already other heroes.
Second, I don't think the purpose of his first movie was to learn a lesson in how to be a hero but how to be independent.
Third, I don't know why people hate his relationship with Iron Man, since HE IS INTRODUCED as a recruit to Tony, and therefore its obvious that they would have a pupil and mentor relationship. And, he gave a suit to Spider Man so that he could fight in the civil war airport battle. I don't know why people conflate the Iron Spider Armor with the one that tony gave him and for some reason get mad. Also, of course he would be "saved" multiple times by his mentor, because he is his mentor!!!, If I'm doing martials arts, and my master says that I'm doing something wrong, it's normal, even multiple times, I don't get why people get mad at that relationship, he isn't Tobey Maguire Spider Man on his third movie as Spider Man, that was his first movie, where again, he was already introduced as a pupil, on a universe with other heroes, AND he is a teenager, he got his powers with 15, Tobey Maguire Peter Parker got his at 18....
Fourth, he doesn't have villains to fight against yet, so yeah, he will not suffer that much, I mean, no one complained about Tobey not suffering, until the last part of the movie... where his Aunt is attacked and Mary Jane kidnapped... All before that he was suffering??? No... He pretty much did the same things that Tobey Spider Man did, which is struggle with the double life and with his potential love...
Fifth, I don't think that was a empty sacrifice at the end, I don't think that was even a sacrifice, he still had the suit tony made, he could still save people with that...
Agree with you, especially regarding the mentor relationship with Tony Stark.
Peter also influenced Tony; Tony practically treated Peter more like a son, which prompted him to master astrophysics in short order and devise a way to execute the time heist in Avengers: Endgame.
(An oversight in Spider-Man: No Way Home was the start when Peter, Ned & MJ couldn't find work; it never occurred to them to apply at Stark Industries- its unlikely Pepper Potts would've turned them down).
Okay I agree that the mentor and pupil relationship between Peter and Tony was necessary but the thing is in the next movie it’s all about Spidey having to be the next Iron Man which doesn’t fit his character because he’s Spider-Man not Iron Man Jr, so it doesn’t make since for him to keep having to be attached to Iron Man’s legacy when Far From Home should’ve been its own story rather than Peter having to rely on Iron Man tech, but I completely agree Peter having a suit made by Tony because of the Civil War incident is permissible for the first movie
@@lukehannah4554i think it's actually more okay on the second movie. I mean, yeah, he's not spider man Jr, but Tony still chose him to be his successor for Edith. I think that fits Peter arc for taking responsibility a lot. A real real lot.
I don't know why people don't like his association with Iron Man since he was recruited by him and mentored by him. In a other universes where they don't have a relationship like that, it would be okay to complain. But not on this one where Tony is literally his father figure.
I think his point is that the consequences for his actions are underwhelming. He never faces any troubles because of his actions. Even in the end, where he sacrifices, like, the best night of his life with the girl he likes, so he can stop Vulture, he basically doesn't face any consequences.
I mean, maybe he would lose his spot on the spelling team(???? I forgot what it was, I think it was spelling ) after disappearing in Washington or something. Or maybe the girl would get really mad at him for disappearing during her party.
I don't think those are problems, particularly, but I think that was Brandon's point. He could have suffered way more because of his actions, and didn't.
@dyegoeduardosantossilva3659 I disagree somewhat. The first movie could be seen as his "training wheels". He was still young and barely getting started as a hero and a teenager. Not to mention the film's tone is overall pretty lighthearted and comical. So I understand why they didn't want to have more long-lasting hardships: by leaving them for later installments, it hits harder by sheer contrast.
I think the idea was that Peter DID think he was better as a "neighborhood" hero and then ALSO thought it was a test.
Maybe that he hadn't even considered that it might be a test until after he'd turned it down.
Yesssss!!! I've always hated how flimsy the tom holland spider man's stories have been. He's always sidelined and portrayed as a clueless whiney kid that needs an older adult to try and get him to get his shit together. It only took 5 movies for tom holland peter parker to finally somewhat resemble the image of a real spider-man. The "I'm a dumb innocent teenager" shtick got old real fast.
* Best Hero: I'm wavering between Frodo and Luke Skywalker.
Frodo is a powerless hobbit in a world of orcs, dragons and evil demi-gods. He picks up the One Ring once, mostly out of ignorance, and still picks it up again when he learns the whole context. He takes on the responsibility, then repeatedly makes very difficult choices to stay on the right path despite the increasing temptation of The Ring. He is marred psychologically and physically by the burden he carried to the end, and the reason he wins over The Ring is not a simple Deux Ex but the consequences of his previous choices, in particular the choice to spare Smeagol/Gollum.
Then, we have Luke Skywalker. He starts as a humble farmer's nephew with aspirations of heroism, grows through harsh training and difficult choices, pays a price for his mistakes, and ends the original trilogy with a tough moral choice that redeems his father after being tortured for his decision. He makes active choices, suffers the consequences and earns his growth. Every time we see him stronger, we understand it by the journey he took. It's an incremental progression, not an instant gift from the author.
* Worst Hero: Rey. Just Rey. Definitely not Rey S-something.
She gets powers out of nowhere. (Despite a weak explanation late in the game that she's a scion of Palpatine, she should still not just get powers without training. Also a concept of "dyad" that is applied very inconsistently.) There is no consequence at all for her mistakes and impulsive decisions. (clearest example: Chewbacca is still alive after she explodes the transport he's on. Allegedly. Because he was not on this transport. Because f... consequences.) She wins every fight on the first try. She has no clear value or quality (or she has them all, which means the same in terms of storytelling) and is never challenged on any of them. But worst of all, she just rips off Luke and steals all his achievements. She takes his powers, his redeeming a dark-side leader, his victory over Palpatine, his name, his dignity even... and she _earns_ absolutely none of it.
I know she's been covered by the video already, but she's simply the worst character I've watched as far as I can remember.
I don’t think homecoming was about him not facing any real challenges. By the end of it, he realized he was living on easy mode and he thought it was hard. Made him realize he wasn’t ready to be on the main roster yet.
I don’t think it’s suffering that specifically makes a well written hero. It’s all of the decisions they make in a wide variety of scenarios, including when they’re pushed to their limits.
Suffering is just one element, I agree it's not always needed if there are enough conflicts and real challenges, but suffering helps make the character relatable and endearing (not just for a hero).
I wish more people shared your perspective of the homecoming incarnation of Spider-Man. It's so bizarre to me how the MCU fundamentally misunderstands the character, a poor college student who is beset by problems from every angle but manages to persevere for the good of society. Versus The MCU version who faces only superficial problems which are always solved quickly, while being bankrolled by billionaires and missing core pieces of his backstory such as Uncle Ben and working as a journalist.