@@marks238 ah true, but Tony Blair carried on his message and won. Compromise is necessary. Arguably Blair took it a bit too far though. I mean, New Labour could just barely be called “socialism”.
One of the most powerful political speeches ever. Labour was factionalised. Now the Tories are. If you want ordinary people to vote for you, they need to understand what you are about. Blair and Thatcher understood that.
John Bull It would appear it was only the Liverpool MPs who walked out as if well known left wingers like Benn and Skinner had done so it would have been publicised.
David Batthews u can tell Skinner didn’t walk out since he’s behind Kinnock on the right. He was also my MP and he made a point of standing up against the mismanagement of Liverpool by Hatton and Co.
I was broadly in sympathy with Hatton and Heffer at the time. Resisting the Thatcher menace had to be hard line because the alternative was surrender and be crushed........ But....... Kinnock was so dynamic, infused with genuine hatred, passionate and articulate. He made his point exactly and emphatically. It was truly difficult to disagree with the man, because he meant it. That look at the beginning as they cheer him that said” you don’t know what I’m going to say yet” is priceless. The fury, the venom is heartfelt. It was the best he ever got.
It was a stunning piece of oratory but if it was a turning point, paved the way for two election defeats and then Blair and Iraq. I would also say Brexit because if Labour had not presided over the loss of a million manufacturing jobs and taken other measures to protect workers' rights, I doubt it would have happened. Most voters were not bothered about the EU but Farage and co persuaded them it was the source of all our ills- light years from the truth. Kinnock's speech after the 1983 defeat is deeply moving as is his concession speech on the steps of Walworth Road HQ in the early hours of the morning of 10th April after the shattering defeat of 1992. It remains one of the saddest days of my life because hopes were high that a different type of society was possible after the carnage of the Thatcher years. Here were are thirty years later and the issues that 1992 could have gone some way to starting to address remain unresolved. We cannot have Scandinavian public services with US levels of taxation, for example. The outlook is bleak.
As relevant today as it was then. Those that fail to learn the lessons of history are forever condemmed to repeat them. The Labour Party is going through the early 1980s all over again.
Note the Beast of Bolsover (Dennis Skinner) sitting behind Kinnock, completely unmoved and silent. If only he knew then that Labour was to change into a centre-right party within a decade, he would have walked out.
Interesting that over thirty years ago the Labour party was wrestling with the same issue - too many of its campaigners not really wanting to deal with the dirty business of fighting and winning elections.
@@ruairidhirwin1767 We'll see. You're probably right, but who knows what effect five years of this government smashing everything in sight will have on the electorate.
@@ruairidhirwin1767 Perhaps. But you have to choose from what's in front of you, and I would much prefer Starmer in No. 10 than Johnson. He is manifestly a more grown-up, serious and intelligent politician. As for the rest of the cabinet - it remains to be seen. He will need to assemble a convincing team in order to be taken seriously. I think he's made a reasonable start. There are still a few cranks and student politician activists in there, but he's cleared most of them out. What do you want to happen?
@@robicenco1 I want social democracy. I like Starmer but I think he will lose. Labour will then elect a leader on the right of the party and eventually win. We will have a period of government and then be in a similar, if not worse position in 30 years time.
I don’t care about his pension he was dead right then and is now. Momentum play at politics they don’t want power it scares them. They are still Students playing at politics.
A great orator who was never elected as prime minister;NOT because of his politics, or because he fell over in the water in Blackpool; But because many Little Englanders would NOT vote for a party with a leader with a Welsh, Scottish or Irish accent. Prove me wrong!
@@stevenpaulgoulding Yes true , but neither Smith, Nor Brown were elected as Prime Minister. Not sure who the third one is . Blair was born in England , speaks with an English accent and has never claimed to be Scottish.
Also, vast majority of the men wearing very light-coloured suits. Don't know if it was a particularly warm September in 1985, but I'd be surprised if even 5% of delegates at conferences nowadays were wearing anything other than a dark grey, dark blue or charcoal suit.
@@LeftWinger9 That's fair (apart from the bit about me being a tory!). But if you look at where the party was that he inherited, he did well. He got the politics right, he just lacked the aura. It was always said he could have won if his wife hadn't dragged him to the ground on the beach. Made him a figure a fun.
I am and will always be a Conservative but this speech and what he was trying🎉 to do is immense. The Labour party then fell in love with Corbyn that says a lot about Socialists but Mr. Kinnock...you did well lad. (but you still lost)
@@chriswatson3464oh yes they are and the truth is they’d rather be an ideologically pure opposition and protest movement than accept the reality of compromise and pragmatism of being in Government.
The incorrect audio on this video is mixed in from the right side. If you turn off right audio then it becomes easier to hear what he's saying. For example, if listening with headphones, listen through the left headphone and not the right headphone.
It amazes me why anybody buys into any Politicians speech! Even if its well meaning! Events and Circumstances usually mean that a lot of the things they want to do can’t be done anyway.
Gore and Kerry gave us Obama too Smith gave us FDR besides Jennings Dewey gave us Eisenhower Whitlam/Hayden gave us Hawke Churchill gave us Atlee Fritz gave us Clinton besides Dukakis both Teddy and Taft gave us Harding and Corbyn might bring Starmer in Number 10
Less so with FDR, but all the examples you gave are leaders who took their parties further right than their predecessors had. Blair gave us New Labour, Reagan gave us greater concentration of wealth, and Clinton gave us eight years of passing Republican congressional legislation. Nightmarish on the whole.
Don't worry Neil, when your Westminster career fails you can always head off to Europe and line your pockets with the huge salary, perks, and pension you'll get there. Your whole family can join you there and earn large incomes, perks and pension too for themselves. Years later you can even use your name within the Labour party to help your son become a Westminster MP, where he can enjoy his £75,000 a year (£1,500 a week) tax-payer funded salary.
Given that the average wage in the UK is £30,000 as of 2021, I would have thought £75,000 for an MP is entirely reasonable, don't you? Stockbrokers in the City of London, investment fund managers, hedge fund executives by contrast are on upwards of £500,000 a year, Premiership footballers between £5-10 million. The people who take home 60% of UK salaries.
@@jinnymudlark1815 Your command of English syntax is laughable. Hopefully when England is separated from Europe and the rest of the UK you'll bother to learn the native language.
@@MarkHarrison733 Yes,that might be so,but he knew that Militant-Tendency was trouble & that if he didn’t shut his mouth:he’d get kicked out of Labour too,like,Hatton did. Skinner probably valued:his job & his pension & perks more,than his principles.
Oratory is now a lost art in British politics. This was a very great speech, and it has lost none of its power to impress.
The audio is hilariously random
Likely so that news producers could pick between the two speeches on the two right and left audio channels - a way of storing more on the same tape!
The audio on this is all over the place.
Horrible,painful to the ears and the other TH-cam vid of this incredible speech also has audio problems at vital moments. Irritating and frustrating.
I was using the TH-cam app on my TV and in 5.1 surround it's like throwing a sound beach ball around.
The audio is like modern art!
yes echoing
I thought it was because I was experiencing a flashback
I hope Labour members now reflect on this speech and its resonance to the future of the party.
Kinnock lost every election he fought!
@@marks238 ah true, but Tony Blair carried on his message and won. Compromise is necessary. Arguably Blair took it a bit too far though. I mean, New Labour could just barely be called “socialism”.
@@EternalShadow1667 Fair point from you. Now we have the choice of the red Tories or Blue Tories :(
@@marks238losing from a sedentary position
@@EternalShadow1667 John Smith was modernising the Labour Party but not to over modernise like what Tony Blair did.
One of the most powerful political speeches ever.
Labour was factionalised. Now the Tories are.
If you want ordinary people to vote for you, they need to understand what you are about.
Blair and Thatcher understood that.
Can't argue with that
As a Labour member this speech should be printed on the back of membership cards
Legendary Welsh speech back when labour was for the hard working labour workers
If only he hadnt fallen over in blackpool in 1992. Bloody hell, bloody hell...
It was in 1983 in Brighton
And thus began New Labour
I wonder if Corbyn walked out
John Bull It would appear it was only the Liverpool MPs who walked out as if well known left wingers like Benn and Skinner had done so it would have been publicised.
David Batthews u can tell Skinner didn’t walk out since he’s behind Kinnock on the right. He was also my MP and he made a point of standing up against the mismanagement of Liverpool by Hatton and Co.
Probably!
I wouldn't be surprised. Probably likely!
I was broadly in sympathy with Hatton and Heffer at the time. Resisting the Thatcher menace had to be hard line because the alternative was surrender and be crushed........
But.......
Kinnock was so dynamic, infused with genuine hatred, passionate and articulate. He made his point exactly and emphatically. It was truly difficult to disagree with the man, because he meant it. That look at the beginning as they cheer him that said” you don’t know what I’m going to say yet” is priceless. The fury, the venom is heartfelt. It was the best he ever got.
It was a stunning piece of oratory but if it was a turning point, paved the way for two election defeats and then Blair and Iraq. I would also say Brexit because if Labour had not presided over the loss of a million manufacturing jobs and taken other measures to protect workers' rights, I doubt it would have happened. Most voters were not bothered about the EU but Farage and co persuaded them it was the source of all our ills- light years from the truth.
Kinnock's speech after the 1983 defeat is deeply moving as is his concession speech on the steps of Walworth Road HQ in the early hours of the morning of 10th April after the shattering defeat of 1992. It remains one of the saddest days of my life because hopes were high that a different type of society was possible after the carnage of the Thatcher years. Here were are thirty years later and the issues that 1992 could have gone some way to starting to address remain unresolved. We cannot have Scandinavian public services with US levels of taxation, for example. The outlook is bleak.
And now the people booing are the ones on the stage. Think about that.
Yep and they have gone again Starmer and Kinnock JNR now together
As relevant today as it was then. Those that fail to learn the lessons of history are forever condemmed to repeat them. The Labour Party is going through the early 1980s all over again.
yes now Starmer is doing this
@@veggie42 Blair got power tho.
Failed the miners failed the liverpool council failed the workers and this leads to the existance of starmer and co red tories
2:04 Damn, Kinnock making multiple speeches at the same time. Impressive but I think the audio is messed up on this video
What you expect from the mail?
*OUTDATED MISPLACED PICKLED DOGMA*
No he was just such a gifted public speaker that he could make it sound like there were two people speaking simultaneously
Note the Beast of Bolsover (Dennis Skinner) sitting behind Kinnock, completely unmoved and silent. If only he knew then that Labour was to change into a centre-right party within a decade, he would have walked out.
He was 43, fresh faced and ambitious
Calling out the greedy Derek
Lord Kinnock already looked about 55.
@@ChrisPatrick-q6k Being bald made him look 10-15 years older.
I'm here cuz of Steve coogan
we have no choice but to stan
Interesting that over thirty years ago the Labour party was wrestling with the same issue - too many of its campaigners not really wanting to deal with the dirty business of fighting and winning elections.
Kinnock lost. Just like Starmer will lose.
@@ruairidhirwin1767 We'll see. You're probably right, but who knows what effect five years of this government smashing everything in sight will have on the electorate.
@@robicenco1 Hope you're right but Britain needs greater change than Kinnock, Blair or now Starmer had/have to offer.
@@ruairidhirwin1767 Perhaps. But you have to choose from what's in front of you, and I would much prefer Starmer in No. 10 than Johnson. He is manifestly a more grown-up, serious and intelligent politician. As for the rest of the cabinet - it remains to be seen. He will need to assemble a convincing team in order to be taken seriously. I think he's made a reasonable start. There are still a few cranks and student politician activists in there, but he's cleared most of them out.
What do you want to happen?
@@robicenco1 I want social democracy. I like Starmer but I think he will lose. Labour will then elect a leader on the right of the party and eventually win. We will have a period of government and then be in a similar, if not worse position in 30 years time.
Neil Kinnock the best Prime Minister we never had
@King Royal unfortunately I still remember Mosley and I cant agree with you there mate
It's not the man that I disliked it was his political views but fair comment
That was Mosley.
I don’t care about his pension he was dead right then and is now. Momentum play at politics they don’t want power it scares them. They are still Students playing at politics.
“Gesture Generals, trend tacticians”, true in 2020
A great orator who was never elected as prime minister;NOT because of his politics, or because he fell over in the water in Blackpool; But because many Little Englanders would NOT vote for a party with a leader with a Welsh, Scottish or Irish accent.
Prove me wrong!
His three successors were Scottish.
@@stevenpaulgoulding Yes true , but neither Smith, Nor Brown were elected as Prime Minister.
Not sure who the third one is .
Blair was born in England , speaks with an English accent and has never claimed to be Scottish.
@@anindyamajumdar4088 Blair was born in Edinburgh.
@@anindyamajumdar4088 The SDP dividing the vote was the main reason.
Great Orator.
Like Hugh Gaitskell, he was lacklustre.
@@stevenpaulgoulding Really. Your obviously a left wing Moron.
I was young but was team Major in 92 but wish in hindsight kinnock had won
Pro tip: watch this with only your left earbud because audio is spluttered
Tuned in today because of the current mess this country is in !!!!
Also, vast majority of the men wearing very light-coloured suits. Don't know if it was a particularly warm September in 1985, but I'd be surprised if even 5% of delegates at conferences nowadays were wearing anything other than a dark grey, dark blue or charcoal suit.
it was it was a indian.summer with riots in b irmingham
Fashion changes
@@markjones4704 And the Broadwater Farm Estate in Tottenham where PC Keith Blakelock was hacked to death.
Was that a young Jeremy Corbin we saw flouncing out of Conference in disgust? 🧔♂
This was the beginning of labour rounding the corner…
Reject then and now
He and now his children have lived from the taxpayer their whole lives - and built nothing
Then he went to work for the EU and money corrupted him and his son.
I'm only here for the audio.
And he lost
It’s all come TRUE
The audience is of a lost era not just the hairstyles and clothes
greatest speech ever made by a labour MP
aye if you're a Tory like you. He got battered in 2 elections after this
@@LeftWinger9 That's fair (apart from the bit about me being a tory!). But if you look at where the party was that he inherited, he did well. He got the politics right, he just lacked the aura. It was always said he could have won if his wife hadn't dragged him to the ground on the beach. Made him a figure a fun.
I am and will always be a Conservative but this speech and what he was trying🎉 to do is immense. The Labour party then fell in love with Corbyn that says a lot about Socialists but Mr. Kinnock...you did well lad. (but you still lost)
Momentum are the new Militant
No
@@chriswatson3464oh yes they are and the truth is they’d rather be an ideologically pure opposition and protest movement than accept the reality of compromise and pragmatism of being in Government.
Oh the days when Labour stood for something!
The incorrect audio on this video is mixed in from the right side. If you turn off right audio then it becomes easier to hear what he's saying. For example, if listening with headphones, listen through the left headphone and not the right headphone.
The audio on this is awful. Almost as if you didn't check it before posting. come on!
It amazes me why anybody buys into any Politicians speech! Even if its well meaning! Events and Circumstances usually mean that a lot of the things they want to do can’t be done anyway.
Wales
Built by a Labour council. Under a Labour government.
How'd that work out?
I can't see him without thinking of that Spitting Image puppet. Then I start laughing.
Ironic that a staunch Tory supporting newspaper posts this
Decent fella Kinnock.
Kinnock saved the party from the far left
Lord Kinnock betrayed the miners.
Neil Kinnock would have supported the miners if only that idiot Arthur Scargill held a ballot on strike action.
@@stevenpaulgoulding Scargill would have lost a ballot.
Kinnock gave us Blair
Goldwater gave us Reagan
Dukakis gave us Clinton
Jennings gave us FDR
Losing campaigns still build a base for future landslides
Gore and Kerry gave us Obama too
Smith gave us FDR besides Jennings
Dewey gave us Eisenhower
Whitlam/Hayden gave us Hawke
Churchill gave us Atlee
Fritz gave us Clinton besides Dukakis
both Teddy and Taft gave us Harding
and Corbyn might bring Starmer in Number 10
Less so with FDR, but all the examples you gave are leaders who took their parties further right than their predecessors had. Blair gave us New Labour, Reagan gave us greater concentration of wealth, and Clinton gave us eight years of passing Republican congressional legislation. Nightmarish on the whole.
Goldwater gave us Nixon.
This aged well...
Terrible editing
I'M NOT SURE MADE NO DIFFERENT
Don't worry Neil, when your Westminster career fails you can always head off to Europe and line your pockets with the huge salary, perks, and pension you'll get there. Your whole family can join you there and earn large incomes, perks and pension too for themselves. Years later you can even use your name within the Labour party to help your son become a Westminster MP, where he can enjoy his £75,000 a year (£1,500 a week) tax-payer funded salary.
Given that the average wage in the UK is £30,000 as of 2021, I would have thought £75,000 for an MP is entirely reasonable, don't you?
Stockbrokers in the City of London, investment fund managers, hedge fund executives by contrast are on upwards of £500,000 a year, Premiership footballers between £5-10 million. The people who take home 60% of UK salaries.
Yup... like the BLM leader buying a house in the West Los Angeles hills for 1.5 million...
So true
Starmer now is reminding me of Kinnock more than his son Stephen does
Starmer has the charisma of a potato.
@@cgavin1 charisma isn’t vital education and knowledge is
@@veggie42 education doesn't exist
A great man
He was a piece of shite.
I've corrected the audio issues & added in a few missing sections:
th-cam.com/video/Jji0JS5TPFk/w-d-xo.html
The days when Labour meant something.
The great man(wales!)
Too middle class
Like Hugh Gaitskill and Ed Miliband.
Sort the bloody sound out!
This is very poorly mixed
Best Labour speaker - shame he became such eurocrat
He was simply being untruthful - probably very conveniently actually convinced himself of some degree sincerity - a necessary tactic for born liars.
Kinnock is an establishment clown
@@jinnymudlark1815 Your command of English syntax is laughable. Hopefully when England is separated from Europe and the rest of the UK you'll bother to learn the native language.
@@Liam-yw8uv Well said Derek.
@@stolenorange The EU is not Europe
He should have won,been given a chance.
The people saw through him 🏴🏴🏴
Who's here because of Rudy Giuliani?
This served him well hahaha hammered in 2 elections after
Why is Dennis not clapping? Lol.
Kinnock, king of the losers!
was about Liverpool 😂😂😂😂
He was a great orator but unfortunately in 92 he blew it and the British people realised, we don't want this man running the country!
Am I on acid again
He looked like a plonker in 93
You mean 1992
@@merseydave1 we .need to win
One rat.
What a wasted talent... One of the greatest orators in 20th century Britain, yet he betrayed his cause and let the forces of darkness prevail.
and then neil pretends he lived during 1042 mining coal
and sold his soul to the holy trinity
anti christ ----!
Was that the guy in his earpiece?
Dozy twat,,his gormless son is even thicker than him,! 🐖💨 😂😂😂
And Corbyn is even thicker.
He was always a clown and out of touch with reality.
Complete and utter misjudgement.
Skinner behind him, he knew it was all bull💩, he had the measure of him
Skinner,knew that Kinnock was a fair-man & he too,wanted to see the end of Militant Tendency:as did most people in that hall.
@@MarineAqua45 Skinner accused Lord Kinnock of betraying the miners.
@@MarkHarrison733 Yes,that might be so,but he knew that Militant-Tendency was trouble & that if he didn’t shut his mouth:he’d get kicked out of Labour too,like,Hatton did.
Skinner probably valued:his job & his pension & perks more,than his principles.
Got to sfmit magnificent oratory from Kinnick
Awas