To see the historical base on which Lovecraft based his idea of describing the indescribable by over describing you should read about Negative Theology, that is the idea of describing God by what it is not, as you can't describe the divine.The theologian Meister Eckhart of the XIIIth centuary is a superb example of it.
On a related note, the indie game "Blasphemous" takes a huge amount of its design, story and art direction from Spanish Catholicism which gives it an incredibly interesting feel unlike anything else out there.
Dude used his PhD in Classical Literature/History and Religious Studies to give us an in-depth video of where Bayonetta's angelic and demonic mythos comes from. I'm loving dis!
I think this legit might be my favorite video of yours, that opening salvo was so cathartic to hear after constantly being told when talking to people about the series how "sexist and objectifying" the character and game are, when what was actually sexist and objectifying was people's views on human sexuality. Excellent work (Also I can't believe the Vatican invented ahegao)
Probably those artists didn't _invented_ that, imho it's quite possible to have roots in greco-roman art. Also, it would be better if you find another term rather than "The Vatican" (maybe Catholic artists?), it makes it sound as if it was something deliberatly planed and coordinated in the institutional level instead of just people expressing themselves. It's hard for me to find a good analogy, but the best that I can find is that it would be like saying that Bantam Books invented Game of Thrones, or that Shueshia invented One Piece.
I think you misunderstand christianity. Christian morality is not anti sex, it believes there is an appropriate place and time for sex (marriage) and inappropriate times for sex (between unmarried people). You've taken half of a philosophy on sex, ignored the other half, and then claimed the symbolism around the other half makes the philosophy hypocritical. Though, it would be fair to say, the developers of Bayonetta likely have similar misconceptions about christianity as well.
for italian iconographic and religious symbolism the games really went into a lot of even small details, like having Balder being associated with peacock imagery, which in renaissance symbolism is related to purity, but also vanity (which is kind of explored in the sequel, which kind of gives a "reverse tarot" reading on the characters of the first one) duality is big theme in the games (especially conisdering the two eyes and factions) also considering the rchitecture of the towns in the games you can see both set in italy: as Vigrid is based on Le Cinque Terre and Noatun on Venice
He didn't even get into how clever and deeply informed all the seemingly shallow witchy stuff is in this game, right down to referencing those ancient christian women saints left mostly out of canon (who started many of the witchy tropes), getting the procreative and early modern imperialist politics behind witchtrials right for once, getting paganism vs. reformation era christianity right, and linking all that right up to what a cataclysmic worldchanging demonic 'heresy' modern women (let alone the queer culture this game codes for) are in the context of the tens of millennia of imperial histories hence. Gorg needs to make Bayonetta art history into a series. This video was nice
@@michelottens6083 Now you reminded me of the accesorioes this game lets you purchase to give Bayonetta some advantages in different ways. All of them are inspired by different countries and game lore wise, made by ancient witches, which are all well known historical figures, like Cleopatra herself, to give just one example
@@Bane_Amesta Oh right, I'd forgot about those! Yeah they were all really literal references to historic women who'd mostly all fallen to some witch hunt or other, or who'd just had their stories rewritten.
All of this was part of my High School Latin, Art and Religious Studies curriculum, it's not overlooked at all (at least not in Austria) This is part of basic European History.
@@Bane_Amesta Most of what I know of that is that the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa is named after the Hindu deity of death, doom and the end of time, feared by most if not *all* of the pantheon he came from. If i remember correctly, at least.
Two points. 1. you should really listen to the Secret History of Western Esotericism podcast (SHWEP) for a largely chronological, academic tour through the texts and historical moments that created the canon of the "occult" and much of Abrahamic religion. It's beyond fascinating and highly sourced and thorough. 2. Kamiya knows a lot more about occultism and folklore than people give him credit for. There's the obvious Divine Comedy references in DMC1, but don't forget that it was originally going to be a weird Resident Evil game, so the premise was that Spencer (founder of Umbrella) was genuinely hundreds of years old due to being an alchemist, and his castle was covered in usually accurate occult-referencing experiments, articulating the process of the Magnum Opus. I'm talking about the designs for KEYS in the game it's that granular. Broadly it was the VITRIOL process as it serves as a nice allegory for character development, but there are lots of weird little references you'd have to thumb through some books on alchemy to get (as well as, weirdly, a reference to Shingon Buddhism what with the Siddham script used as the demonic alphabet in the game). But outside of that, Okami references some very specific and not too well known Kyoto myths, and Bayonetta is naturally referencing overt "Christian" esotericism (which is also a mix of Jewish and pagan Greek and Roman ideas), including John Dee's much later and very singular visions and writings of the angels and aethers. Part of it might also be Daigo Ikeno's influence as his notes in the DMC artbook reveal a similar fascination with occultism and mythology, pulling from unusual and interesting sources for his monster designs.
I’ve adored St. Theresa and Baroque art ever since I took art history in college and I feel incredibly dumb for all the sexuality of it flying right over my head. Never came up in my classes 😭
Don't feel dumb. It would've downplayed the mystical side of the experience, also the sculptor took some liberties for the artistical representation of the saint's experience.
@@JoaoPaulo-zd2qj Bro are you telling me a dream where a beautiful angel impales the dreamer with a spear of fire that makes her moan of pain AND ecstasy is devoid of any sexual connotation?
When I was taking my bachelor's degree in philosophy in Italy I took an optional course named: "The History and Experience of Love in the Theology of the 1200's" by the philosopher and theologian Giovanni Salmeri. He looked like Mr. Bean and talked enraptured of the mysthical and pornographic experiance of catholic saints while connecting it to the italian erothic comedies of the 70ies. It was a wild ride and one of the most interesting and fun courses I ever took.
@@Ghi102 yeah, there's still a stigma about talking about sexuality related to holy figures in certain academical circles, but it's much more accepted now.
Comparative literature classes always are a blast, connecting things you wouldn't have thought were influenced by each other. You stumble on Victor Hugo writing gothic horror in his young days, or a dystopian detective story actually being a philosophy essay on linguistics, or Ulysses revealing himself as a pathological liar :p
As a queer person from Italy, a former art history student, and a Bayonetta stan, I'm extremely thankful for each and every second of this video. You've put into words why this series is so special to me in a way I never could. Bravo!
@@morgannyan2738 babe, there's a canonical multiverse in bayo's franchise, any sexuality Is viable, there are infinite possibilities, including lesbyonetta 😘
"Reverse-Orientalism" sounded funny and expressed a slightly different thing from what "Occidentalism" mean. It describes the Eng -> Jp -> Eng passages. Listen to that part of the video again
I love that you used William Blake's illustrations as backgrounds-- I honestly think the observation "how the hell did Blake manage to infiltrate Japanese media so hard?" is worthy of a thesis, let alone a youtube video, considering how ignored he is here in the west. Hell, even Urizen is hanging out in DMC on a first name basis.
Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden loves the guy. The Chemical Wedding, Bruce's fifth solo album, has tons of songs inspired by Blake, and the cover art is also a Blake piece. Excellent album.
Idk why you think Blake is ignored in the West? His work has been hugely influential, even to the point that his poetry is often included in high school English courses...
Another slasher title developed by Japanese studio with some of the people who worked on Bayonetta and DMC is El Shaddai:Ascension of the Metatron. It is based on apocryphal Book of Enoch and delves into some kind of nephilim apocalypse which was caused by the fallen angels who influenced the evolution of humans and pushed it into some dark direction. Man, this game is criminally overlooked. The visual presentation is phenomenal, each new level looks different from the previous one. I could argue that in terms of visual diversity this game stands on one level with such titles like American Mcgee's Alice and Superliminal. It constantly tries to surprise you with new landscapes and vistas. I've had this game sitting in my backlog for years and having recently played it I can say I had a blast with it. Please, play El Shaddai and meet this forgotten sibling of Bayonetta and Devil May Cry
Ooh, I have that game on the PS3! I sadly haven't finished it though. Too many other great games in my collection beckoning my attention. Gotta get back to it some day. Hope it gets a port to current systems so other players can have a second chance at checking it out.
Bayonetta, and the themes within each entry are fascinating. So much work went into every design, detail, and the language of angels, and demons. Excellent video
George, that’s not what Dionysius is saying - you referenced his neo-platonism, he’s speaking in terms of forms and essence. Dionysius is saying that the strange descriptions of angels using earthly aspects (eg wheels, eyes, eagles, lions, etc) are: (A) not the same as their spiritual essence, which is beyond human comprehension; (B) very possibly chosen for the human observer so as to be able to understand. He’s most certainly NOT saying that these beings have no basis in reality, but are really just metaphorical. As you imply, that is very much a lens applied as early as Hobbes but which becomes predominant in the 19th/20th century. In short, this concerns a difference of metaphysics, not hermeneutic - Dionysius thinks of ‘things’ differently to most moderns, precisely because he’s a Neoplatonist. (In the same way, the post-Freudian obsession with sex as liberation is likely the cause of those spurious readings of Theresa of Avila and other medieval saints. This is a modern imposition - we can’t think of ourselves non-sexually and we insist on thinking of sexuality as the most important thing about being human, and so we enforce that on our ancestors. It’s the definition of anachronism.) (EDIT: as for nudity in medieval / renaissance art - it seems tenuous to suggest that the mere presence of nudity is indicative of some repressed desire. Again, this is just Freud writ large. Previous centuries were more ok with nudity, even in public; look at Chaucer’s Canterbury tales. There’s no dissonance here. Compare renaissance nudity with Victorian - they are very different in their emphases and what the modern interpreter would call ‘gaze’.)
Bayonetta is so rich and deep concept wise. I always appreciated it for going the extra mile. Glad to see some apreciation towards things that arent just it's gameplay.
Okay, I gotta ask. I've watched you for about 10 years now, and every video you seem to mispronounce one word at random. It's always one, and there's never a video where it doesn't happen. This might be an insane question, but do you do that on purpose? The word of the week is: On•trails
She also literally a witch. Promiscuous women were often branded witches by the catholic church, so if you want a character fighting Catholicism, a sexy witch makes perfect sense.
Yeah, when I read that passage from Theresa's autobiography for the first time and saw that sculpture in art class, I was like "Yeah, "vision"...riiiiiiiight." I always had the opinion that she had a *very* vivid dream of taking it up the backside, came so hard that she screamed to high heaven upon waking up and had to sugarcoat the dream (since she didn't want to lie) when asked about it by the other nuns when they came running.
What an amazing video, I really missed the angels on the third game, the new ones are just generic aliens or at least feel like them. As someone who was raised Catholic and is surrounded by it's doctrines everywhere it's cool to see, though I'm not practicing or a believer. I always laughed at how bombastic and "blasphemous" Bayonetta always been regarding angels and such.
it is peak "the US is the center of the Universe" to say "western critics had issues with the religious imagery". yeah, my boy? not everyone is religiously stunted like the US. yikes.
14:35 we learn about bridal mysticism. If you'd have told me years ago that i would be interested in theology i'd have looked at you weird despite still being christian at that time but there is so much weird and interesting stuff both in mainline and folk-christianity (not to mention the heresies, those are great)
Absolutely loved this video. The amount of thought that went into the art direction and lore of this game is something else so seeing a video talking about it in detail was a treat.
ive been in a really weird/complicated spot with religion for like over half of my life. a part of me (i don't know how large) wants me to go back to some church stuff (was/am catholic), but the other part of me doesn't because i am like hella gay. i guess what i will do is play bayonetta after this semester finishes and see where i end up after that, maybe also re-read dantes inferno, idk
Catholic/ Apostolic Christian ethics aren't anti-homosexual, it recognizes that being attracted to the same sex cannot be changed but urges the same actions that a non-married heterosexual would take.
The fact that Bayo is kind of a LGBT icon is funny to me, because, just like you said, I remember people shamming the over sexualization of the first game so much back then Also, great video overall man, I'd be very happy if you did more of this with Bayonetta
"many believing it was her experiancing a homosesual encounter...HE THRUST HIS SPEAR..." yeah.....because women TOTALLY have "spears"..... seriously, who in their right mind would hear that passage, and think it was about two chicks having sex, its CLEARLY talking about a man, and a woman, not two women.
I saw a video once about the way drag shows are evoked through Bayonnetta, which I feel like relevant as well and adds a number of extra layers. But I don’t know enough to expand on that point, just look into it
You should be fairer to the writer of that Wired article who didn't find the opening cutscene funny; they obviously somehow ended up with a (potentially less entertaining) copy of the game from some alternate dimension. After all, they describe the scene as Bayonetta performing "an incantation to raise an ally from the dead." I mean, the only other explanation is that they didn't even pay more than a few seconds of attention from the very beginning, as if they'd gone into it having already set in stone that the the game and the character were reprehensible...
You always put so much effort and research into your videos, they are such a treat whenever they come out and your great writing makes topics accessible and entertaining. Gotta get around to the illiad reading sometime soon!
It was not the actual point of sexualizing everything. Everything pre-Renaissance was chaster. The Renaissance adapted Greco-Roman sculpturing which is not pornographic and perverted in nature. To preted that the Church had hidden innuendos shows only of what a perverted mind modern man has become.
I think you give culture war around video games too much of that pseudoinctellectual, academic context. And Japanese game creators too much credit on their "agenda" based writing and design., best they got is Kojima who people made into genius when in fact he's your cool uncle who happened to take some pictures shrooms.
Well this was a great video, goes to show how much research goes behind some games that without looking deeper into them, we just assume that the artists are going wild with the artistic vision and not grounding it in an already existent framework and expanding upon it in extremely creative ways, wild stuff, goes to show that the best art always has inspirations and is not a work that comes from the void.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is the sort of in depth analysis that I love to hear about video games and this sort of media. I especially love the world of Bayonetta because of how well researched it is for it's designs and lore inspirations. The Bayonetta fandom is one that is in severe need of more of this type of content.
George, your work is getting better than ever (and it was already pretty damn terrific). It's a joy and an inspiration, seeing you do what you love, and love what you do. Thank you😊
I will say this: as an Italian I really appreciated Bayonetta 1's imagery and lore, it made for a unique game with moments of awe and wonder. Bayonetta 2 and 3 are good games but nowhere near that symbolic richness Bayo 1 had, and in game reviews fixated with only gameplay this will never come up. I miss that richness, especially with Angels.
I was watching the Sonic rings burst out of the enemies as Bayonetta stomped them and I swear the music playing in the background morphed into "Can't you feel the sunshine" in my head.
I think the most annoying thing about Bayonetta's perception is the people that used to call her "Nothing more than meat for the male gaze" going to "I can't imagine anyone straight being into Bayonetta".
People interpret culture for their own ends, rarely having to do with the thing itself but whatever manifesto is in vogue at the time. The whiplash feminism has had over porn and the male gaze has been particularly schizophrenic, to where there little difference between them and evangelicals condemning D&D as devil worship (except when it is embracing the symbolism and fantasy of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien).
I love how bayonetta is the most historically accurate witch in gaming. Also I never realized that the text refers to platinum games for imagining the wheels as dragons 🐉
The removal of the “literal” aspect of judeo-christian-islamic deities and heavenly creatures and making their actions and appearances more metaphysical and allegorical is brilliantly conveyed in the book “God: an Anatomy” by Stavrakopolou. Basically early christian theologians were trying to set themselves apart from contemporary polytheistic religions and market the christian god as different, when his origins were actually anything but. Fascinating stuff
16:50 yeah... we tend to forget that renaissance and baroque art could get really horny. most of it was in mythology pieces, buuut when an artist spends 30 years lovingly rendering the supple muscles of greek gods and then is asked to portrait a martyr in the extasis of the true faith... some sensual overlap is going to happen.
0:29 it's funny when people say it was made by a man because Bayonetta was designed by a woman, mocapped by a woman, and a majority of the fan base is straight women, lesbians, and gay dudes. Also, it's so weird how people were mad that angels were the villains when bayo1 came out like ????? Idk I think having a war between heaven and hell on earth isn't very cash money on either side, I don't think flooding the world and sparring one family is morally cool, idk I don't think angelic forces can claim a moral high ground tbh.
Learning that the Christian Church aesthetic was made to be intentionally overwhelming helped me understand why i don't like being in churches generally. They always felt intense like the gravity or humidity or the vibe/atmosphere was heavier than elsewhere like when you're in the presence of friends or family as they're having a really bad argument. I guess this sensation of pressure is supposed to put you off balance in some way as to make you more susceptible to the teachings held within the given religious establishment. I always thought the church aesthetic was just a matter of taste and that some people liked it and some didn't, which is technically still the case i'm sure, but knowing there was an intent or design behind it beyond just "We like the way this looks" helped put things into perspective for me.
I'm as atheist as can be, but I love me some church aesthetics in the same way I love the design of the empire from Star Wars, SS uniforms, or communist choir music. Evil can look really rad.
It's funny because I'm a Protestant and I absolutely love most Church art aesthetic from Europe especially the baroque stuff. I can definitely see it as overbearing, but as someone in the face, I find most of it just really impressive. But I've also gotten that feeling in literal one-room Churches in the middle of nowhere MidWest America, so idk.
@@2mccue4u27 I also like the purposely underwhelming aesthetic of hardcore protestant churches. Plain wooden cross, benches that kinda hurt your ass, cobblestone floor.. all extremely ascetic and sober.
I don't find the aesthetic overwhelming at all, I find them quite the opposite, very peaceful and calm. Perfect to just close your eyes and let your mind wonder.
@@Burnedcoffee0 You're looking at it with the sensibilities of someone who's heard deathmetal and watched cartoons as a kid. For people from that time, it was probably a lot more in your face. Their daily lives were.. rustic.
One of my favorite parts of Bayonetta was the whole decade-plus of journalists room temperature iq takes sliding into refrigerator temperature iq takes. Death, taxes, and journalists being unintelligent.
@@Narokkurai fair point. I do find the claim that renaissance Catholic art is erotic to be tenuous, though I acknowledge that most scholars of art history probably disagree with me.
@@themillermaster1 I think people had a different relationship to eroticism throughout history than we do today. It's important to remember that in the Anglosphere, a lot of our moral standards were set by puritanical protestant movements that only really got started in the 1600s. I think before them, the gap between "erotic" and "obscene" was a lot wider, and probably rooted more in economic and social divisions than any fundamental moral code. Humans have never *not* been fascinated with sexuality
Well, it's nice to see institutional hypocrisy put front and center on a video game. It being rooted in... maybe not "facts" or "history" but "historical bullshit" is a lethal gut-punch. I love it! Thanks for putting this together, George!
Ah, so those erotic catholic sculptures are the reason Bayonetta 3 ended the way it did.... that really explains where the awkward ship moments, kisses, and hugs in the finale come from. Not to mention Singularity attempting to use a long spear to deliver the killing blow on Bayonetta's chest during the final battle. Cereza is really based on that Teresa nun, especially the Cerezita in the 3rd entry. And this also explains why when Umbra witches die, their bodies break as if they were statues or sculptures. WAIT A MINUTE, ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS TERESA NUN WHO CONSTANTLY STRUGGLED CONTROLLING HER CARNAL DESIRES AND LUST ENDED UP NOT ONLY ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE, BUT EVEN ON SMASH BROS!?
Haven't seen Heval, but super interested in anything covering Rojava. It's such an amazing project that more people should know about, no matter how long it manages to last.
this feels like cuthulu with extra steps...
Or straps.
To see the historical base on which Lovecraft based his idea of describing the indescribable by over describing you should read about Negative Theology, that is the idea of describing God by what it is not, as you can't describe the divine.The theologian Meister Eckhart of the XIIIth centuary is a superb example of it.
Cthulhu minus extreme xenophobia
cuthulu is the catholicism we have at home
@@CardfightVanja or a similar amount of xenophobia
Super Bunnyhop became a mythology channel so progressively I haven't even notice
lol fr, I'm really enjoying it!
This is what happens when you stare too long into the moving ramen
He should play the Shin Megami Tensei games then, he'd have a field day.
@@HRIgnomious weeb is a disease
@@Beakerbite I have starred into the ramen I have become the ramen 🍜🍜🍜
Hey this video rules
On a related note, the indie game "Blasphemous" takes a huge amount of its design, story and art direction from Spanish Catholicism which gives it an incredibly interesting feel unlike anything else out there.
It called Gothic style
@@emulation2369 no, it's spanish baroque
yeah, it's only got a small touch of sex and BDSM though.
actually I find blasphemous more on the satire side on this than bayonetta
@@MarcDize I find blasphemous is the old testaments of video game
Dude used his PhD in Classical Literature/History and Religious Studies to give us an in-depth video of where Bayonetta's angelic and demonic mythos comes from. I'm loving dis!
I see what you did there
I think this legit might be my favorite video of yours, that opening salvo was so cathartic to hear after constantly being told when talking to people about the series how "sexist and objectifying" the character and game are, when what was actually sexist and objectifying was people's views on human sexuality. Excellent work
(Also I can't believe the Vatican invented ahegao)
Probably those artists didn't _invented_ that, imho it's quite possible to have roots in greco-roman art. Also, it would be better if you find another term rather than "The Vatican" (maybe Catholic artists?), it makes it sound as if it was something deliberatly planed and coordinated in the institutional level instead of just people expressing themselves. It's hard for me to find a good analogy, but the best that I can find is that it would be like saying that Bantam Books invented Game of Thrones, or that Shueshia invented One Piece.
I think you misunderstand christianity. Christian morality is not anti sex, it believes there is an appropriate place and time for sex (marriage) and inappropriate times for sex (between unmarried people). You've taken half of a philosophy on sex, ignored the other half, and then claimed the symbolism around the other half makes the philosophy hypocritical.
Though, it would be fair to say, the developers of Bayonetta likely have similar misconceptions about christianity as well.
for italian iconographic and religious symbolism the games really went into a lot of even small details, like having Balder being associated with peacock imagery, which in renaissance symbolism is related to purity, but also vanity (which is kind of explored in the sequel, which kind of gives a "reverse tarot" reading on the characters of the first one)
duality is big theme in the games (especially conisdering the two eyes and factions)
also considering the rchitecture of the towns in the games you can see both set in italy: as Vigrid is based on Le Cinque Terre and Noatun on Venice
Damn it Gorg, I'm now left wanting more explanations of overlooked segments of Catholic art history. Absolutely loved this.
He didn't even get into how clever and deeply informed all the seemingly shallow witchy stuff is in this game, right down to referencing those ancient christian women saints left mostly out of canon (who started many of the witchy tropes), getting the procreative and early modern imperialist politics behind witchtrials right for once, getting paganism vs. reformation era christianity right, and linking all that right up to what a cataclysmic worldchanging demonic 'heresy' modern women (let alone the queer culture this game codes for) are in the context of the tens of millennia of imperial histories hence.
Gorg needs to make Bayonetta art history into a series. This video was nice
@@michelottens6083 Now you reminded me of the accesorioes this game lets you purchase to give Bayonetta some advantages in different ways. All of them are inspired by different countries and game lore wise, made by ancient witches, which are all well known historical figures, like Cleopatra herself, to give just one example
@@Bane_Amesta Oh right, I'd forgot about those! Yeah they were all really literal references to historic women who'd mostly all fallen to some witch hunt or other, or who'd just had their stories rewritten.
All of this was part of my High School Latin, Art and Religious Studies curriculum, it's not overlooked at all (at least not in Austria)
This is part of basic European History.
@@Bane_Amesta Most of what I know of that is that the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa is named after the Hindu deity of death, doom and the end of time, feared by most if not *all* of the pantheon he came from.
If i remember correctly, at least.
Two points.
1. you should really listen to the Secret History of Western Esotericism podcast (SHWEP) for a largely chronological, academic tour through the texts and historical moments that created the canon of the "occult" and much of Abrahamic religion. It's beyond fascinating and highly sourced and thorough.
2. Kamiya knows a lot more about occultism and folklore than people give him credit for. There's the obvious Divine Comedy references in DMC1, but don't forget that it was originally going to be a weird Resident Evil game, so the premise was that Spencer (founder of Umbrella) was genuinely hundreds of years old due to being an alchemist, and his castle was covered in usually accurate occult-referencing experiments, articulating the process of the Magnum Opus. I'm talking about the designs for KEYS in the game it's that granular. Broadly it was the VITRIOL process as it serves as a nice allegory for character development, but there are lots of weird little references you'd have to thumb through some books on alchemy to get (as well as, weirdly, a reference to Shingon Buddhism what with the Siddham script used as the demonic alphabet in the game). But outside of that, Okami references some very specific and not too well known Kyoto myths, and Bayonetta is naturally referencing overt "Christian" esotericism (which is also a mix of Jewish and pagan Greek and Roman ideas), including John Dee's much later and very singular visions and writings of the angels and aethers.
Part of it might also be Daigo Ikeno's influence as his notes in the DMC artbook reveal a similar fascination with occultism and mythology, pulling from unusual and interesting sources for his monster designs.
Thanks for mentioning the podcast!
I’ve adored St. Theresa and Baroque art ever since I took art history in college and I feel incredibly dumb for all the sexuality of it flying right over my head. Never came up in my classes 😭
Yeah, let's just say it probably wasn't a literal spear that angel was holding
Don't feel dumb. It would've downplayed the mystical side of the experience, also the sculptor took some liberties for the artistical representation of the saint's experience.
@@JoaoPaulo-zd2qj Sexuality and mysticism aren't opposites lmao
@@homestuck_official in this case, it had nothing to do with the experience and it mainly comes from the ambiguity of the sculptor’s work.
@@JoaoPaulo-zd2qj Bro are you telling me a dream where a beautiful angel impales the dreamer with a spear of fire that makes her moan of pain AND ecstasy is devoid of any sexual connotation?
When I was taking my bachelor's degree in philosophy in Italy I took an optional course named: "The History and Experience of Love in the Theology of the 1200's" by the philosopher and theologian Giovanni Salmeri. He looked like Mr. Bean and talked enraptured of the mysthical and pornographic experiance of catholic saints while connecting it to the italian erothic comedies of the 70ies. It was a wild ride and one of the most interesting and fun courses I ever took.
Oh wow now I MUST google this guy, I have a feeling that his works would be a delight to read. Thanks!
It's interesting because both fields are usually studied separately, when in the lived experience of 1200, they were entertwined and inter-related
@@Ghi102 yeah, there's still a stigma about talking about sexuality related to holy figures in certain academical circles, but it's much more accepted now.
Comparative literature classes always are a blast, connecting things you wouldn't have thought were influenced by each other. You stumble on Victor Hugo writing gothic horror in his young days, or a dystopian detective story actually being a philosophy essay on linguistics, or Ulysses revealing himself as a pathological liar :p
My life immediately improves when a Super Bunnyhop video drops.
As a queer person from Italy, a former art history student, and a Bayonetta stan, I'm extremely thankful for each and every second of this video. You've put into words why this series is so special to me in a way I never could. Bravo!
How do you feel about Bayonnetas sexuality?
@@morgannyan2738 babe, there's a canonical multiverse in bayo's franchise, any sexuality Is viable, there are infinite possibilities, including lesbyonetta 😘
Missed opportunity to use "Occidentalism" instead of Reverse-Orientalism to sound pretentious.
"Reverse-Orientalism" sounded funny and expressed a slightly different thing from what "Occidentalism" mean. It describes the Eng -> Jp -> Eng passages.
Listen to that part of the video again
@@serse8455 I agree, not the same thing
I love that you used William Blake's illustrations as backgrounds-- I honestly think the observation "how the hell did Blake manage to infiltrate Japanese media so hard?" is worthy of a thesis, let alone a youtube video, considering how ignored he is here in the west. Hell, even Urizen is hanging out in DMC on a first name basis.
Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden loves the guy. The Chemical Wedding, Bruce's fifth solo album, has tons of songs inspired by Blake, and the cover art is also a Blake piece. Excellent album.
V literally quotes the guy several times in DMC 5
Idk why you think Blake is ignored in the West? His work has been hugely influential, even to the point that his poetry is often included in high school English courses...
@@joshmay2944 yeah if you count 'The Tyger'-- but for the most part, schools only acknowledge his lyrics. The majority of his work was prophetic.
@@joshmay2944 influential sure but many have not heard of
Lots of things influence without proper credit
Another slasher title developed by Japanese studio with some of the people who worked on Bayonetta and DMC is El Shaddai:Ascension of the Metatron. It is based on apocryphal Book of Enoch and delves into some kind of nephilim apocalypse which was caused by the fallen angels who influenced the evolution of humans and pushed it into some dark direction.
Man, this game is criminally overlooked. The visual presentation is phenomenal, each new level looks different from the previous one. I could argue that in terms of visual diversity this game stands on one level with such titles like American Mcgee's Alice and Superliminal. It constantly tries to surprise you with new landscapes and vistas.
I've had this game sitting in my backlog for years and having recently played it I can say I had a blast with it. Please, play El Shaddai and meet this forgotten sibling of Bayonetta and Devil May Cry
Cruel Altea in Bayo 3 is basically the Gale
Ooh, I have that game on the PS3! I sadly haven't finished it though. Too many other great games in my collection beckoning my attention. Gotta get back to it some day.
Hope it gets a port to current systems so other players can have a second chance at checking it out.
@@1Synner Actually El Shaddai has been released for pc in 2021 as a remastered version, that's the version I've played
@@XanderGrishchenko Oh cool... but I was also talking about console ports too, not just PC.
@@1Synner let's just hope this recent re-release sells well enough and then we may have a chance of seeing more console ports in the future
Does george have a day job or something or why did he abandon the channel
Seeing George again talking about silly japanese videogames is like feeling finally returning home while being already at home.
Cool Angel's Thesis
Fun fact: Dantes Inferno aka The Divine Comedy is actually funny. Its like a celeb roast of people who have been dead for millenia.
Bayonetta, and the themes within each entry are fascinating. So much work went into every design, detail, and the language of angels, and demons. Excellent video
How is this not sponsored by Adam & Eve?
That would be divine comedy
i was looking for this exact comment, im glad im not the only one who thought about it
wth george?
Today I learnt that the US doesn't have basic art history in high school and suddenly their prevalent Puritanism makes so much sense
This is an very liberal atheist interpretation of catholicism
That's one hell of a title for a video.
honestly loving these recent videos where you talk about how history and folklore and stuff influence games
What even is this channel anymore?
George, that’s not what Dionysius is saying - you referenced his neo-platonism, he’s speaking in terms of forms and essence. Dionysius is saying that the strange descriptions of angels using earthly aspects (eg wheels, eyes, eagles, lions, etc) are:
(A) not the same as their spiritual essence, which is beyond human comprehension;
(B) very possibly chosen for the human observer so as to be able to understand.
He’s most certainly NOT saying that these beings have no basis in reality, but are really just metaphorical. As you imply, that is very much a lens applied as early as Hobbes but which becomes predominant in the 19th/20th century.
In short, this concerns a difference of metaphysics, not hermeneutic - Dionysius thinks of ‘things’ differently to most moderns, precisely because he’s a Neoplatonist.
(In the same way, the post-Freudian obsession with sex as liberation is likely the cause of those spurious readings of Theresa of Avila and other medieval saints. This is a modern imposition - we can’t think of ourselves non-sexually and we insist on thinking of sexuality as the most important thing about being human, and so we enforce that on our ancestors. It’s the definition of anachronism.)
(EDIT: as for nudity in medieval / renaissance art - it seems tenuous to suggest that the mere presence of nudity is indicative of some repressed desire. Again, this is just Freud writ large. Previous centuries were more ok with nudity, even in public; look at Chaucer’s Canterbury tales. There’s no dissonance here. Compare renaissance nudity with Victorian - they are very different in their emphases and what the modern interpreter would call ‘gaze’.)
Bayonetta is so rich and deep concept wise. I always appreciated it for going the extra mile. Glad to see some apreciation towards things that arent just it's gameplay.
So glad the series is only on Switch.
@@joepwrsurge Could do with a machine that gives it more room to breathe.
Okay, I gotta ask. I've watched you for about 10 years now, and every video you seem to mispronounce one word at random. It's always one, and there's never a video where it doesn't happen. This might be an insane question, but do you do that on purpose?
The word of the week is:
On•trails
She also literally a witch. Promiscuous women were often branded witches by the catholic church, so if you want a character fighting Catholicism, a sexy witch makes perfect sense.
This dude REALLY doesn't want to talk about video games.
Yeah, when I read that passage from Theresa's autobiography for the first time and saw that sculpture in art class, I was like "Yeah, "vision"...riiiiiiiight." I always had the opinion that she had a *very* vivid dream of taking it up the backside, came so hard that she screamed to high heaven upon waking up and had to sugarcoat the dream (since she didn't want to lie) when asked about it by the other nuns when they came running.
What an amazing video, I really missed the angels on the third game, the new ones are just generic aliens or at least feel like them. As someone who was raised Catholic and is surrounded by it's doctrines everywhere it's cool to see, though I'm not practicing or a believer. I always laughed at how bombastic and "blasphemous" Bayonetta always been regarding angels and such.
Glad to see you still on the grind George :)
Great uploads as always and I hope to hear more from you soon!
it is peak "the US is the center of the Universe" to say "western critics had issues with the religious imagery". yeah, my boy? not everyone is religiously stunted like the US. yikes.
14:35 we learn about bridal mysticism. If you'd have told me years ago that i would be interested in theology i'd have looked at you weird despite still being christian at that time but there is so much weird and interesting stuff both in mainline and folk-christianity (not to mention the heresies, those are great)
Adam and eve should have endorsed this one
Super Bunnyhop + Bayonetta is a combination I didn't know how badly I needed. Can't wait to watch.
Absolutely loved this video. The amount of thought that went into the art direction and lore of this game is something else so seeing a video talking about it in detail was a treat.
As soon as the Sexy Catholic Artwork section started I knew the Ecstasy of St. Theresa would be coming up lol
Blessed be the name of the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏
ive been in a really weird/complicated spot with religion for like over half of my life. a part of me (i don't know how large) wants me to go back to some church stuff (was/am catholic), but the other part of me doesn't because i am like hella gay.
i guess what i will do is play bayonetta after this semester finishes and see where i end up after that, maybe also re-read dantes inferno, idk
Catholic/ Apostolic Christian ethics aren't anti-homosexual, it recognizes that being attracted to the same sex cannot be changed but urges the same actions that a non-married heterosexual would take.
@@CandidaRosa889 That's just shame with extra steps
@@rudolfambrozenvtuber Shame is what molds your humanity along with joy.
@@CandidaRosa889 what is someone like you even doing on a video like this?
@@rudolfambrozenvtuber why would you ask that? I watched this channel for his metal gear solid videos a long time ago and I guess im still subscribed
The fact that Bayo is kind of a LGBT icon is funny to me, because, just like you said, I remember people shamming the over sexualization of the first game so much back then
Also, great video overall man, I'd be very happy if you did more of this with Bayonetta
its even more funny now that shes revealed to be straight
Getting a little fedora tippy I see.
I don't see it.
"many believing it was her experiancing a homosesual encounter...HE THRUST HIS SPEAR..."
yeah.....because women TOTALLY have "spears"..... seriously, who in their right mind would hear that passage, and think it was about two chicks having sex, its CLEARLY talking about a man, and a woman, not two women.
I saw a video once about the way drag shows are evoked through Bayonnetta, which I feel like relevant as well and adds a number of extra layers. But I don’t know enough to expand on that point, just look into it
You should be fairer to the writer of that Wired article who didn't find the opening cutscene funny; they obviously somehow ended up with a (potentially less entertaining) copy of the game from some alternate dimension. After all, they describe the scene as Bayonetta performing "an incantation to raise an ally from the dead." I mean, the only other explanation is that they didn't even pay more than a few seconds of attention from the very beginning, as if they'd gone into it having already set in stone that the the game and the character were reprehensible...
You always put so much effort and research into your videos, they are such a treat whenever they come out and your great writing makes topics accessible and entertaining. Gotta get around to the illiad reading sometime soon!
I really love the direction this channel took! This is cool, interesting stuff.
It was not the actual point of sexualizing everything. Everything pre-Renaissance was chaster. The Renaissance adapted Greco-Roman sculpturing which is not pornographic and perverted in nature. To preted that the Church had hidden innuendos shows only of what a perverted mind modern man has become.
I think you give culture war around video games too much of that pseudoinctellectual, academic context. And Japanese game creators too much credit on their "agenda" based writing and design., best they got is Kojima who people made into genius when in fact he's your cool uncle who happened to take some pictures shrooms.
I've never heard this term 'reverse-orientalism' before, but it makes a lot of sense! Though, shouldn't it just be called 'occidentalism'?
Well this was a great video, goes to show how much research goes behind some games that without looking deeper into them, we just assume that the artists are going wild with the artistic vision and not grounding it in an already existent framework and expanding upon it in extremely creative ways, wild stuff, goes to show that the best art always has inspirations and is not a work that comes from the void.
Blew my mind!
How was this not sponsored by Adam and Eve?
i'm sure the 21:37 runtime was intended as well, given the topic?
small easter egg for polish viewers
What does it mean?
@@dnkakusei the hour of the death of the only polish catholic pope
@@spaqin Oh crap, that's really interesting!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is the sort of in depth analysis that I love to hear about video games and this sort of media. I especially love the world of Bayonetta because of how well researched it is for it's designs and lore inspirations. The Bayonetta fandom is one that is in severe need of more of this type of content.
George, your work is getting better than ever (and it was already pretty damn terrific). It's a joy and an inspiration, seeing you do what you love, and love what you do. Thank you😊
I've been supporting this man for 3 years straight financially and his topics are getting more and more arcane for some reason and I love it
I will say this: as an Italian I really appreciated Bayonetta 1's imagery and lore, it made for a unique game with moments of awe and wonder. Bayonetta 2 and 3 are good games but nowhere near that symbolic richness Bayo 1 had, and in game reviews fixated with only gameplay this will never come up. I miss that richness, especially with Angels.
"One drop in a bucket of this stuff!"
I see what you did there, and I'm not sure I'm okay with it.
Can't believe this video isn't sponsored by Adam & Eve
I was watching the Sonic rings burst out of the enemies as Bayonetta stomped them and I swear the music playing in the background morphed into "Can't you feel the sunshine" in my head.
Bayonetta is so empowering especially as someone with a bunch of religious trauma ☹️
I think the most annoying thing about Bayonetta's perception is the people that used to call her "Nothing more than meat for the male gaze" going to "I can't imagine anyone straight being into Bayonetta".
People interpret culture for their own ends, rarely having to do with the thing itself but whatever manifesto is in vogue at the time.
The whiplash feminism has had over porn and the male gaze has been particularly schizophrenic, to where there little difference between them and evangelicals condemning D&D as devil worship (except when it is embracing the symbolism and fantasy of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien).
Straight people are damned if they do, damned if they dont
Does anyone know where people can find more games like this?
I love the hairy woman
I've been watching your videos for many years now George and this might just be my all-time favorite!
I mean, I COULD read The Divine Comedy but I'm waiting for the official George Weidman audiobook release
I love how bayonetta is the most historically accurate witch in gaming.
Also I never realized that the text refers to platinum games for imagining the wheels as dragons 🐉
I had no idea Bayonetta's lore had this much depth
The removal of the “literal” aspect of judeo-christian-islamic deities and heavenly creatures and making their actions and appearances more metaphysical and allegorical is brilliantly conveyed in the book “God: an Anatomy” by Stavrakopolou. Basically early christian theologians were trying to set themselves apart from contemporary polytheistic religions and market the christian god as different, when his origins were actually anything but. Fascinating stuff
Oh no that's where you're wrong. Most of media today is taken from the bible
Greek epics have had markedly more influence
16:50 yeah... we tend to forget that renaissance and baroque art could get really horny. most of it was in mythology pieces, buuut when an artist spends 30 years lovingly rendering the supple muscles of greek gods and then is asked to portrait a martyr in the extasis of the true faith... some sensual overlap is going to happen.
0:29 it's funny when people say it was made by a man because Bayonetta was designed by a woman, mocapped by a woman, and a majority of the fan base is straight women, lesbians, and gay dudes.
Also, it's so weird how people were mad that angels were the villains when bayo1 came out like ????? Idk I think having a war between heaven and hell on earth isn't very cash money on either side, I don't think flooding the world and sparring one family is morally cool, idk I don't think angelic forces can claim a moral high ground tbh.
It's so nice to have you back Mr Bunnyhop.
I'm playing Bayoneta 1 atm and Iam astounded by how Much Detail they put into this game.. I Love It ! 😅
Props for the nod to Thermae Romae Novae! Such an enjoyable show.
Learning that the Christian Church aesthetic was made to be intentionally overwhelming helped me understand why i don't like being in churches generally. They always felt intense like the gravity or humidity or the vibe/atmosphere was heavier than elsewhere like when you're in the presence of friends or family as they're having a really bad argument. I guess this sensation of pressure is supposed to put you off balance in some way as to make you more susceptible to the teachings held within the given religious establishment.
I always thought the church aesthetic was just a matter of taste and that some people liked it and some didn't, which is technically still the case i'm sure, but knowing there was an intent or design behind it beyond just "We like the way this looks" helped put things into perspective for me.
I'm as atheist as can be, but I love me some church aesthetics in the same way I love the design of the empire from Star Wars, SS uniforms, or communist choir music. Evil can look really rad.
It's funny because I'm a Protestant and I absolutely love most Church art aesthetic from Europe especially the baroque stuff. I can definitely see it as overbearing, but as someone in the face, I find most of it just really impressive. But I've also gotten that feeling in literal one-room Churches in the middle of nowhere MidWest America, so idk.
@@2mccue4u27
I also like the purposely underwhelming aesthetic of hardcore protestant churches. Plain wooden cross, benches that kinda hurt your ass, cobblestone floor.. all extremely ascetic and sober.
I don't find the aesthetic overwhelming at all, I find them quite the opposite, very peaceful and calm. Perfect to just close your eyes and let your mind wonder.
@@Burnedcoffee0 You're looking at it with the sensibilities of someone who's heard deathmetal and watched cartoons as a kid. For people from that time, it was probably a lot more in your face. Their daily lives were.. rustic.
Dang, if there was ever a video to be sponsored by Adam & Eve...
For once Adam&Eve ad could've been on point, but you went with curiosity stream
I find Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising to be more satisfying hack n slash games than Devil May Cry, the combat systems are made so damn well
Devil may cry was made by the same guy as Bayonetta
One of my favorite parts of Bayonetta was the whole decade-plus of journalists room temperature iq takes sliding into refrigerator temperature iq takes. Death, taxes, and journalists being unintelligent.
"Reverse orientalism" Shouldn't that be called "Occidentalism" or "Westernism"?
I find it hilarious that fat blue hairs online are now claiming to be empowered by tall thin sexy bayonetta.
Like their diets, their beliefs are inconsistent.
Honestly some of the best work out this platform, absolutely love your content
If we are going to use the term this video coigned, a very good, somewhat early (in videogames) expression of reverse-Orientialism is FFX
Loving this current arc
Not the best time with how Bayonetta 3 ended.
17:17 - 17:45 so you're telling me the Church was centuries ahead of Michael Bay?
How could it be that your video covering the ecstasy of St. Theresa is -not- sponsored by Adam and Eve?
This is my favourite video of yours. no doubt
Bizarre to take de Sade’s word on anything. “Pervert thinks of piece of art in a perverted way” - wow truly shocking.
Hey, if there's one person to trust on the topic of perversion, it's a pervert.
@@Narokkurai fair point. I do find the claim that renaissance Catholic art is erotic to be tenuous, though I acknowledge that most scholars of art history probably disagree with me.
@@themillermaster1 I think people had a different relationship to eroticism throughout history than we do today. It's important to remember that in the Anglosphere, a lot of our moral standards were set by puritanical protestant movements that only really got started in the 1600s. I think before them, the gap between "erotic" and "obscene" was a lot wider, and probably rooted more in economic and social divisions than any fundamental moral code. Humans have never *not* been fascinated with sexuality
Well, it's nice to see institutional hypocrisy put front and center on a video game. It being rooted in... maybe not "facts" or "history" but "historical bullshit" is a lethal gut-punch. I love it! Thanks for putting this together, George!
God bless the endless fountain that is Catholic fanfiction!
i luv u.
In all seriousness, great work George, as always.
Ah, so those erotic catholic sculptures are the reason Bayonetta 3 ended the way it did.... that really explains where the awkward ship moments, kisses, and hugs in the finale come from. Not to mention Singularity attempting to use a long spear to deliver the killing blow on Bayonetta's chest during the final battle. Cereza is really based on that Teresa nun, especially the Cerezita in the 3rd entry. And this also explains why when Umbra witches die, their bodies break as if they were statues or sculptures. WAIT A MINUTE, ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS TERESA NUN WHO CONSTANTLY STRUGGLED CONTROLLING HER CARNAL DESIRES AND LUST ENDED UP NOT ONLY ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE, BUT EVEN ON SMASH BROS!?
No sponsorship from Adam and Eve this time?
They really missed out this time
Haven't seen Heval, but super interested in anything covering Rojava. It's such an amazing project that more people should know about, no matter how long it manages to last.