A thing I have encountered. Some vehicle owners prefer you wearing DMS. Although once I encountered a jeep owner when informed by an reenactor he was wearing hobnailed boots. He said something like, thats the best way to get authentic looking scratches. And put his own hobnaild boot against the front mudguard.
Now I'm starting to doubt my memories.. I'm sure the DMS I was issued had (at least semi-) pebbled toecaps and heels. They had to first be burnt flat, with a very hot tablespoon, before they could then be bulled. Certainly the heels.
The ammo boot was definitely pebble type and we had to burn them off at the guards depot when we fist joined up , but I remember the DMS came with smooth caps .
Ammo Boots where much prized in the Army of 70/80/90s. Not for field use of course but for Parades. Of note - WO2’s normally wore shoes in my Regiment (and many others), but never wore the Officer Issue but ‘Veltdshoens’, which was a civvy make but same pattern. These would be double soled by a Cobbler and studded / heeled and Toe plated. You could tell when the Sgt.Major was approaching! Not a bad Channel - but strictly for enactors. In real life soldiers pack / steal kit to suit the job in hand I am afraid. Regt’l pack lists always existed, and would be obeyed on a unit. Inspection - anything else you do your own thing! One thing is missing on these Vids as well - Bungees. These where frequently used on webbing, particularly 58 to stop ‘bounce’. A walk around Derwent Dam is not the same as running it (or speed marching). Then you find out what webbing bounce is, and a squaddie will try to sort it. There is nothing more tiring that ones webbing bouncing on. The double. Practicalities chaps - think about them!
As a former MV owner myself I’d add that IF reenactors where a bit more willing to help with repainting and general maintenance of the vehicle involved at events they might be more willing to let hobnails on their wagons .. Far to many guys have a ride or two but bugger off sharpish when the repairs need doing
Whilst in the RAF back in the late 70s we had it drilled into us that we could not wear hob nailed boots in aircraft for obvious reasons it was DMS only. I think re-enactors have got to consider this and from a health safety point of view. there are more chances of slipping and having an accident falling off the back of wagon. In the real Armed forces not a problem, for re-enactors it is a real issue as it will be really embarrassing explaining at work "I'm going to be off for a week due to the fact I wore metal studs and slid all they way down the truck bed and flying past the tailgate" It is bad enough walking with plain leathers without adding 'mini ball bearings' to the soles! 🤣
When I was in the army in the late 60s a lot of us use to cut the DMS boot around the to rim as to bend more easily. From the top vertical cuts about a inch down .
The Ammo Boot was actually a damned fine boot for it’s time as evidenced by the fact it was issued for about 50 years. The lack of a fully attached tongue allowed the boot to dry faster and it served in all theatres. It was far superior to the US rough out service shoe and later shoe pack. Where the UK got it wrong for its time was the Boots, DMS which was made to a budget. The sole came off during the TABs and Yomps of the Falklands War and much to the embarrassment of the MoD men took to stealing Argentinian hi leg leather boots with storm cleats and bellows tongue.
I'm wearing a pair 1952 ammo boots I got for cheap and are in fair condition and suffice to say, they a very good boots. The pair of boots I wore previous to this were made in the 90s and i think and french, didn't last very long, hole in the ankle fold bit of the leather now. For urban use I just attach a rubber cutout to the heel and for period use I simply remove them
When I was a teenager in the mid 70's, I joined the Swedish Youth Home Guard. Of course we got " kängor" /old boots from the 40's. the Armed Forces thought it was enough for us. With " klack, tåjärn" and "dubbad sula". what you call hobnail. Walking on asphalt and rocky roads and not least ice was not a fun story. People slipped regularly. 😂
That's interesting: I would have thought that one of the few advantages of hobnails over rubber soles would have been that they provided *better* grip on ice. I once read a book on British military uniforms that said that the Royal Military Police soldiers (who spent most of their time on paved surfaces) were allowed to replace the heels of their ammo boots with rubber ones, but only after the original heels wore out. I found myself wondering how many of them ended up 'accidentally' damaging their heels badly enough that they needed to be replaced.
@@jic1 The iron works should be grooved on ice. Otherwise things will go badly. Something that our Armed Forces ignored. Compare with horseshoes. In the winter here in the north, you shoe them with studded horseshoes. Otherwise they break their legs. The moral is that soldiers are always cheaper than horses. 🤣
@@RiflemanMoore Yeah, there's a lot of decent ones available now, and it's been a hallmark of good LH imo to keep moving past "will do for now" to the proper thing when it becomes available. Our unit essentially formed because several members of an old group that had endured the scarcity of the 80s/early 90s had never gotten over it and were still using post war green denims and tab pouches with housepaint... **Shudder**
Keeping up with the best of what's available is definitely the right mentality. We have some reenactors over here who are also stuck in a similar rut I'm afraid.
I've been to events where vehicles are used, I've seen plenty his hissy fits at folk wearing ammo boots scratching up the new paintwork in a jeep lol no dms no ride they say. What about modern types of ammo boots? Are there any major differences apart from the leather texture and thicker sole? I had the extra sole removed and period correct hob nails fitted instead of the trebbles they came with. My problem is my size 12 feet,I've looked for period made ones but I've just not seen any in that size.
Any vehicle with a paint job so good it might be spoiled by ammo boots isn't worth sitting in! The modern drill boots aren't ammo boots perse, the shape changes and as you say they are made of smooth leather. That is if the ones you're refering to are the ones I'm thinking of.
In 1954 infantry, and as far as I know other Corps etc, recruits were issued two pairs of ammo. boots. Both had to be polished only with Kiwi boot polish, no other brands allowed (NEVER let Dubbin anywhere near them) One pair, designated “best” were “ bulled” I.e. highly polished all over not just toes and heels which required the dimples to be flattened first. There had to be 13 studs on each boot in 4 rows (from the instep forward) of 4,4,3,2. not as shown and leather laces. Perhaps you could do a video of polishing (bulling) boots although you would have to bring in a veteran as it is something only learnt by doing it!
A smarter argument is one of safety and (as has been mentioned) not scuffing up vehicles. However, unless you're wearing your boots while parachuting from a Dakota or routinely riding restored WWII vehicles that you don't help repaint, it's not a very *good* argument.
So I’m aware they aren’t accurate, but I sinuses DMS boots for WW1 re-enacting because I’ve found them cheaper to buy, as well as them lasting a little longer. As well as them being more „beat up able“ I’d rather destroy a pair of cheap DMS boots over my nice hobnailed Ammo boots
If you are wearing them for WW1 there are numerous reproduction boots out there which would be far more suitable than DMS and even more 'beatupable' as they are repros.
Not heard anything of the high leg DMS?,yes they tried this, bellows tongue, better leather.Had them on very limited trial.Not bad boots.We were told to say that they were not good.Never heard anything else, about them. Keep mine for longer than DMS.
I always used to get new DMS boots on a Friday afternoon,soak them for 30 mins in a bucket,put them on with insoles,and wear them for an hour or two to take shape of my feet.Stuff full of newspaper with tons of polish on them . Leave them till next afternoon,more newspaper. Nice soft, waterproof boots in Monday.We never wore them on exercise,Bundeswehr high leg boots were preferred.
In terms of tankers and soldiers that would have been operating vehicles etc were the hob nails just not added to the ammunition boots in WWII? Or they did they differ more than regular ammo boots than just the loss of hobnails?
That's basically correct, from 1937 for MT drivers though I believe it was only the case from 1942 for tank crews (tankies [tank-ees], not tankers, the latter is a US term), I understand they would have worn hobnails prior to this which I can only imagine making mounting and dismounting an armoured vehicle rather hazardous!
DMS boots were horrible things, terribly impractical. The ammo boot was excellent for parade use but not much else. The mark one BCH was bad for shin splints. It took years to get decent issue boots. The best issue i ever had was a pair of gortex lined matterhorns on Kosovo. The jungle boot was nice in the summer.
@@gunner678 DMS weren't that bad. I wore them for years in service in the early 70s. We were issued with two pairs, one for best the other working. I never had a pair let me down through all sorts of hell. Their only failing was melting soles if you ever had the occasion to walk on hot metal etc. You could walk through fire in ammo boots though.
I have a pair of boots with the same uppers as mk 1 combat boots but they have Itshide commando soles screwed on exactly like the S.V. boots at 2;44 do you have any Idea when and where the are from ? . Any information would be appreciated .
Was it common for soldiers to use wax or shoe polish on the underside of their ammo boots to make them a bit more water-resistant? Can't help but feel that after a while of marching around in wet terrain you would get water coming in through the sole.
I imagine that would work similarly. Devin Krueger, Devin K. on here has some videos on boot care which might give an American equivalent as he lives in the US.
@@RiflemanMoore Medical really, i used to wear them with no issues but my feet began to blister on the sides quite badly, i do not have that issue with DMS. Tried different methods but to no avail.
I understand, very strange though as the leather uppers are so similar and you would think that would be the source of the blistering if anything, not the sole.
@@RiflemanMoore you'd have thought so wouldn't you, tried all sorts to try to rectify it but to no avail, next size up was too big and all the tricks to soften the leather further didn't work either
This wasn't a high leg DMS, but a N.I. Urban boot. Totally useless for anything but Northern Ireland use, during the emergency,and lasted a few months . There was a high leg DMS,I got a pair for evaluating, harder soles,and much better leather. Very,very rare. Barely heard of by any one.
The Commando sole boots were actually still issued in the 1970's for soldiers with big feet because DMS boots were not available in anything over a size 10 at that time? A lad in my intake had size 12 feet and his boots had to be specially ordered for him and he received the Commando sole boots because that was what the M.o.D held at Bicester.
When my grandfather was in the Dutch army in the 1950’s, he was a driver with the (Dutch version of the) royal signals “verbindingstroepen”. The uniform he wore was basically a P37 Canadian battle dress, with slightly modified web equipment. He had ammunition boots with a leather sole, but didn’t have the metal hobnails. He thinks to have had the toe and heel cap, but isn’t sure because it would make driving tricky as well as the hobnails. Do you know any similar boot modifications from the UK in World War Two? I removed the toe and heel cap and had the outer part of the sole replaced with robber soles on my 1950’s dated British ammunition boots, to get them as accurate as possible.
Yes, the British Army basically had the same policy for MT drivers to wear boots without hobnails. This was due to an accident in the 1930s which was partly attributed to the driver having hobnailed boots.
Do what Spike Milligan suggested in his memoir “piss in ya boots lad.. leave um overnight “ .. just remember to empty them in the morning before use ..
A thing I have encountered. Some vehicle owners prefer you wearing DMS. Although once I encountered a jeep owner when informed by an reenactor he was wearing hobnailed boots. He said something like, thats the best way to get authentic looking scratches. And put his own hobnaild boot against the front mudguard.
Now I'm starting to doubt my memories.. I'm sure the DMS I was issued had (at least semi-) pebbled toecaps and heels. They had to first be burnt flat, with a very hot tablespoon, before they could then be bulled. Certainly the heels.
The ammo boot was definitely pebble type and we had to burn them off at the guards depot when we fist joined up , but I remember the DMS came with smooth caps .
Ammo Boots where much prized in the Army of 70/80/90s. Not for field use of course but for Parades. Of note - WO2’s normally wore shoes in my Regiment (and many others), but never wore the Officer Issue but ‘Veltdshoens’, which was a civvy make but same pattern. These would be double soled by a Cobbler and studded / heeled and Toe plated. You could tell when the Sgt.Major was approaching! Not a bad Channel - but strictly for enactors. In real life soldiers pack / steal kit to suit the job in hand I am afraid. Regt’l pack lists always existed, and would be obeyed on a unit. Inspection - anything else you do your own thing! One thing is missing on these Vids as well - Bungees. These where frequently used on webbing, particularly 58 to stop ‘bounce’. A walk around Derwent Dam is not the same as running it (or speed marching). Then you find out what webbing bounce is, and a squaddie will try to sort it. There is nothing more tiring that ones webbing bouncing on. The double. Practicalities chaps - think about them!
As a former MV owner myself I’d add that IF reenactors where a bit more willing to help with repainting and general maintenance of the vehicle involved at events they might be more willing to let hobnails on their wagons .. Far to many guys have a ride or two but bugger off sharpish when the repairs need doing
Whilst in the RAF back in the late 70s we had it drilled into us that we could not wear hob nailed boots in aircraft for obvious reasons it was DMS only. I think re-enactors have got to consider this and from a health safety point of view. there are more chances of slipping and having an accident falling off the back of wagon. In the real Armed forces not a problem, for re-enactors it is a real issue as it will be really embarrassing explaining at work "I'm going to be off for a week due to the fact I wore metal studs and slid all they way down the truck bed and flying past the tailgate" It is bad enough walking with plain leathers without adding 'mini ball bearings' to the soles! 🤣
When I was in the army in the late 60s a lot of us use to cut the DMS boot around the to rim as to bend more easily. From the top vertical cuts about a inch down .
The Ammo Boot was actually a damned fine boot for it’s time as evidenced by the fact it was issued for about 50 years. The lack of a fully attached tongue allowed the boot to dry faster and it served in all theatres. It was far superior to the US rough out service shoe and later shoe pack. Where the UK got it wrong for its time was the Boots, DMS which was made to a budget. The sole came off during the TABs and Yomps of the Falklands War and much to the embarrassment of the MoD men took to stealing Argentinian hi leg leather boots with storm cleats and bellows tongue.
I'm wearing a pair 1952 ammo boots I got for cheap and are in fair condition and suffice to say, they a very good boots. The pair of boots I wore previous to this were made in the 90s and i think and french, didn't last very long, hole in the ankle fold bit of the leather now. For urban use I just attach a rubber cutout to the heel and for period use I simply remove them
When I was a teenager in the mid 70's, I joined the Swedish Youth Home Guard.
Of course we got " kängor" /old boots from the 40's. the Armed Forces thought it was enough for us.
With " klack, tåjärn" and "dubbad sula". what you call hobnail. Walking on asphalt and rocky roads and not least ice was not a fun story. People slipped regularly.
😂
That's interesting: I would have thought that one of the few advantages of hobnails over rubber soles would have been that they provided *better* grip on ice. I once read a book on British military uniforms that said that the Royal Military Police soldiers (who spent most of their time on paved surfaces) were allowed to replace the heels of their ammo boots with rubber ones, but only after the original heels wore out. I found myself wondering how many of them ended up 'accidentally' damaging their heels badly enough that they needed to be replaced.
@@jic1
The iron works should be grooved on ice. Otherwise things will go badly. Something that our Armed Forces ignored. Compare with horseshoes. In the winter here in the north, you shoe them with studded horseshoes. Otherwise they break their legs.
The moral is that soldiers are always cheaper than horses. 🤣
Definitely something I did in the beginning. Ammo Boots were really hard to get in the US for a long time.
Indeed, it's an expedient but definitely something I'd recommend avoiding now reproductions are readily available.
@@RiflemanMoore Yeah, there's a lot of decent ones available now, and it's been a hallmark of good LH imo to keep moving past "will do for now" to the proper thing when it becomes available. Our unit essentially formed because several members of an old group that had endured the scarcity of the 80s/early 90s had never gotten over it and were still using post war green denims and tab pouches with housepaint... **Shudder**
Keeping up with the best of what's available is definitely the right mentality. We have some reenactors over here who are also stuck in a similar rut I'm afraid.
Excellent video. Very informative
William Lennon’s are the best!
I've heard they make the best repro ammo boots. Honestly I'd say originals are best!
I've been to events where vehicles are used, I've seen plenty his hissy fits at folk wearing ammo boots scratching up the new paintwork in a jeep lol no dms no ride they say. What about modern types of ammo boots? Are there any major differences apart from the leather texture and thicker sole? I had the extra sole removed and period correct hob nails fitted instead of the trebbles they came with. My problem is my size 12 feet,I've looked for period made ones but I've just not seen any in that size.
Any vehicle with a paint job so good it might be spoiled by ammo boots isn't worth sitting in! The modern drill boots aren't ammo boots perse, the shape changes and as you say they are made of smooth leather. That is if the ones you're refering to are the ones I'm thinking of.
In 1954 infantry, and as far as I know other Corps etc, recruits were issued two pairs of ammo. boots. Both had to be polished only with Kiwi boot polish, no other brands allowed (NEVER let Dubbin anywhere near them) One pair, designated “best” were “ bulled” I.e. highly polished all over not just toes and heels which required the dimples to be flattened first. There had to be 13 studs on each boot in 4 rows (from the instep forward) of 4,4,3,2. not as shown and leather laces. Perhaps you could do a video of polishing (bulling) boots although you would have to bring in a veteran as it is something only learnt by doing it!
A smarter argument is one of safety and (as has been mentioned) not scuffing up vehicles. However, unless you're wearing your boots while parachuting from a Dakota or routinely riding restored WWII vehicles that you don't help repaint, it's not a very *good* argument.
I never had aproblem with dms boots i always found them really good.
So I’m aware they aren’t accurate, but I sinuses DMS boots for WW1 re-enacting because I’ve found them cheaper to buy, as well as them lasting a little longer. As well as them being more „beat up able“
I’d rather destroy a pair of cheap DMS boots over my nice hobnailed Ammo boots
If you are wearing them for WW1 there are numerous reproduction boots out there which would be far more suitable than DMS and even more 'beatupable' as they are repros.
@@RiflemanMoore yeah but most repros aren't comfortable or they're expensive
Not heard anything of the high leg DMS?,yes they tried this, bellows tongue, better leather.Had them on very limited trial.Not bad boots.We were told to say that they were not good.Never heard anything else, about them. Keep mine for longer than DMS.
Brilliant videos!! Thanks, I learn a lot from them.
I'm glad to hear it!
Thanks for sharing
Welcome as always!
Full form of DMS
Loved them.
Which?
Found a pair of DMS boots in my size and have been working them in. They are stiff!! I don’t always don the short puttees and roll socks over.
I always used to get new DMS boots on a Friday afternoon,soak them for 30 mins in a bucket,put them on with insoles,and wear them for an hour or two to take shape of my feet.Stuff full of newspaper with tons of polish on them . Leave them till next afternoon,more newspaper. Nice soft, waterproof boots in Monday.We never wore them on exercise,Bundeswehr high leg boots were preferred.
In terms of tankers and soldiers that would have been operating vehicles etc were the hob nails just not added to the ammunition boots in WWII? Or they did they differ more than regular ammo boots than just the loss of hobnails?
That's basically correct, from 1937 for MT drivers though I believe it was only the case from 1942 for tank crews (tankies [tank-ees], not tankers, the latter is a US term), I understand they would have worn hobnails prior to this which I can only imagine making mounting and dismounting an armoured vehicle rather hazardous!
DMS boots were horrible things, terribly impractical. The ammo boot was excellent for parade use but not much else. The mark one BCH was bad for shin splints. It took years to get decent issue boots. The best issue i ever had was a pair of gortex lined matterhorns on Kosovo. The jungle boot was nice in the summer.
Hey man, I recently got ammunition boots, how did you break yours in?
Awesome vid .
Superb ... love both but find the DMS are less hard on the feet and body when worn all day during a show.
Thanks for posting.
Sometimes we have to make sacrifices for authenticity.
Lol try wearing the bloody things for real for a couple of weeks....they fall to pieces and wreck your feet. Aweful piece of kit to be honest.
@@gunner678 DMS weren't that bad. I wore them for years in service in the early 70s. We were issued with two pairs, one for best the other working. I never had a pair let me down through all sorts of hell. Their only failing was melting soles if you ever had the occasion to walk on hot metal etc. You could walk through fire in ammo boots though.
I have a pair of boots with the same uppers as mk 1 combat boots but they have Itshide commando soles screwed on exactly like the S.V. boots at 2;44 do you have any Idea when and where the are from ? . Any information would be appreciated .
That's interesting. Only thing I can think is that they were modified by someone, possibly at unit level for a commando unit or similar.
Ex British army wore both DMS were horrible in the field Ammo for Regimental days
Was it common for soldiers to use wax or shoe polish on the underside of their ammo boots to make them a bit more water-resistant? Can't help but feel that after a while of marching around in wet terrain you would get water coming in through the sole.
Dubbin, dubbin and more dubbin!
@@RiflemanMoore Had to google what dubbin was. Looks like I'll have to take the next plane to England to get that authentic dubbin!
I think dubbin is available in the US but it might be sold as something else. It's good stuff.
@@RiflemanMoore Well America is even farther away than England. Guess i can always use ye olde normal leather grease.
I imagine that would work similarly. Devin Krueger, Devin K. on here has some videos on boot care which might give an American equivalent as he lives in the US.
@riflemnmoore how do these stack up compared to the australian GP boots from the same era?
The GP boots are streets ahead.
👍
I wear DMS boots instead of Ammo boots because i can no longer wear the former, unfortunately its a compromise i'm forced to make from nescessity
Ah, I see, why so?
@@RiflemanMoore Medical really, i used to wear them with no issues but my feet began to blister on the sides quite badly, i do not have that issue with DMS. Tried different methods but to no avail.
I understand, very strange though as the leather uppers are so similar and you would think that would be the source of the blistering if anything, not the sole.
@@RiflemanMoore you'd have thought so wouldn't you, tried all sorts to try to rectify it but to no avail, next size up was too big and all the tricks to soften the leather further didn't work either
Quite right. If you have foot/ankle / leg issues at a certain age, I'm going to wear what's best for health and bugger the rivet counters.
Where may I purchase a pair of DMS boots in British size 9.5 D? Any suggestions?
I'd suggest keeping an eye on eBay.
Do you think you'll ever do a video on the hi leg variant of the dms boot? the actual name as Boots, DMS, Urban Patrol
This wasn't a high leg DMS, but a N.I. Urban boot. Totally useless for anything but Northern Ireland use, during the emergency,and lasted a few months . There was a high leg DMS,I got a pair for evaluating, harder soles,and much better leather. Very,very rare. Barely heard of by any one.
The Commando sole boots were actually still issued in the 1970's for soldiers with big feet because DMS boots were not available in anything over a size 10 at that time?
A lad in my intake had size 12 feet and his boots had to be specially ordered for him and he received the Commando sole boots because that was what the M.o.D held at Bicester.
@MichaelKingsfordGray Please clarify the meaning of your reply?
like your videos keep them coming
Many thanks, I plan on doing so!
Hi great video always interesting
today i received my 1954 ammo boots the s.o.f were rubbish wrong shaped toe cap etc originals a lot better 👌
When my grandfather was in the Dutch army in the 1950’s, he was a driver with the (Dutch version of the) royal signals “verbindingstroepen”. The uniform he wore was basically a P37 Canadian battle dress, with slightly modified web equipment. He had ammunition boots with a leather sole, but didn’t have the metal hobnails. He thinks to have had the toe and heel cap, but isn’t sure because it would make driving tricky as well as the hobnails. Do you know any similar boot modifications from the UK in World War Two? I removed the toe and heel cap and had the outer part of the sole replaced with robber soles on my 1950’s dated British ammunition boots, to get them as accurate as possible.
Yes, the British Army basically had the same policy for MT drivers to wear boots without hobnails. This was due to an accident in the 1930s which was partly attributed to the driver having hobnailed boots.
I wore dms boots 1980 shit 84 85 combat high came out shit
Indeed, the British Army definitely failed with it's boots in the late 20th Century.
High leg boots in 80s caused Achilles tendon probs bad boot
I have a new pair of WPG boots and they are stiff as hell. I am trying to soften then up. Any tips?
I understand Neatsfoot oil is good. I would recommend wearing them around the house etc. as much as possible.
Do what Spike Milligan suggested in his memoir “piss in ya boots lad.. leave um overnight “ .. just remember to empty them in the morning before use ..