Clicked this after seeing the uncharted vid, and only now noticing you have only 2 more 😮 glad I at least didn't find you in your 3year hiatus Hopefully more to come, really love the Drake video!
Can I just say, putting all your faith in one doctor that is part of an organisation proved to be ineffective and basically useless does not seem to be the best idea. they were fully prepared to kill they’re one known immune person instead of diligently undertake testing and working with Ellie’s immunity in a total knee jerk reaction just so they could avoid asking her what she wanted. I personally think the Joel was only wrong in lying to her afterwards. What he did, if anything at least kept an immune person alive and out of the hands of the useless fireflies that would’ve just killed her and empirically speaking, likely would’ve just messed it up anyway.
Agree. I saw the fireflies from part 1 as a pretty crazy and desperate group of people, which is fair given their circumstances I suppose. I believe Joel did the right thing saving Ellie.
Why is it so important to you that they ask Ellie’s consent for her sacrifice? *That is so mind-numbingly irrelevant to the story and its themes.* 1 we know she wanted to sacrifice herself and 2 if they asked her and she refused, do you think they would just respect that and let the hope of a cure disappear from the world forever??? Also they did plenty of tests on Ellie and determined that Ellie was a normal healthy girl despite having a mutated cordyceps growth in her brain.
@@durodesduvo8424 it’s not about the relevancy to the stories themes, you ask her consent because it’s a basic human right. You can’t just kidnap someone and then put them through surgery whilst they’re out cold.. irrespective of what Ellie might’ve said during a totally different day and context to a totally different person. Also, they really did not test her adequately.. all the tests they did took place in an hour or two.. I dunno if you’ve ever worked as or known anyone who’s worked as a scientist but the idea that they would go through with this surgery after that little testing is madness at best!
@@ashleymerritt9461 *Do you need to be reminded that this is a fictional story?* Hey is the worst part of this game for you the part when Joel survived and 100% recovered from being *impaled in the abdomen* thanks to stitches, several weeks of of rest, and a shot of antibiotics? It's not a totally realistic game, and that's ok. Dude, they did their tests on Ellie, and then they were ready to do the surgery, that is the chain of events. You have to be able to suspend your disbelief to an extent with a fictional story like this, _obviously._ And yes, Ellie's human rights are being ignored for the "greater good", they incorporated a classic thought experiment in ethics called the "Trolley Problem" and the writers surely wouldn't undermine this thought experiment by making the Fireflies _too incompetent to carry out their mission of creating and distributing a vaccine,_ like you implied. Nicely asking Ellie to sacrifice herself would accomplish nothing. It would change no one's mind about all this. The Fireflies would still want to make a cure at any cost, Ellie would still agree and Joel would still want to save her at any cost.
I just found out about your channel and it's incredible! the editing and the amount of effort put into every video is amazing and I absolutely love it. keep going man you definitely deserve way more subs!
You've earned a sub dude, you deserve more than 10. I hope you keep giving as much thought and putting as much effort into the videos you create. I especially appreciate the small glimpse into moral philosophy you gave along with the semi-humorous demeanour you have. I hope to see more from you :)
I'm very late, but nice video! I missed this back in the day, I've been playing through TLOU2 again with the ps5 remaster and OMG I really love this game, no game has made me feel so much as this has.. I guess I kinda get why people don't like it? But I thought it was amazing, they took a risk, it wasn't a safe boring sequel. It was something crazy
I love this game, and this is a great video, but I gotta admit I laughed out loud when you called it "delicately written". TLOU2 is blunt as hell. Like, sledgehammer blunt, completely unsubtle in all the ways it had to be. Just sucks that people are too caught up in Joel's status as a protagonist to treat him like the character he is. It's sort of a byproduct of its medium, though. I think the show version will benefit a lot from the distance of its story being told rather than played.
Thanks for your comment, I'm glad you liked the video. I think I thought it was delicate because there were lots of subtle parallels between Abby and Ellie's stories. Even like, visual parallels in the environments and stuff. Yeah lots of stuff is blunt but there are lots of allusions and lines or scenes with double meanings, stuff you wouldn't notice until a second playthrough. Compared to most videogames where the story is a cartoon, I think I'd ultimaley stand by "delicately written".
@@kodybuffettwilson doesn't matter who deserves what. If Ellie doesn't forgive, she will suffer more. She doesn't have to forgive, as long as she is willing to carry heavy burdens
@@natedansereau considering that she's left without the use of one hand as well as everyone she ever cared about and that cared for her after forgiving Abby, I'd say she would be much better off if she put down the sadistic maniac as soon as she had the chance. It's funny how the entire plot is contrived in order to justify her forgiving the woman who murdered her guardian in cold blood and it still is unable to make it a sensible or satisfying outcome. The entire game shouldn't have been made to begin with, since the ending of the original game was ambiguous enough on the surface to facilitate meaningful discourse, while the objective assessment still held up with both character motivations and logical cause and effect. This game insists upon one reading and one reading only: "violence is cyclical, revenge is empty, now go murder hundreds of faceless goons just to let the one character we have a meaningful conflict with live because the theme demands it." and any disputing of this is disregarded as "lacking media literacy" or "just being upset it wasn't something you wanted", etc.
@kodybuffettwilson hmmm. She left without the (full) use of one hand as well as everyone else she cared about after killing like 100 people, including an unborn baby. She probably still has to make up for that on some level (and Abby still would have fought back and bit her hand if Ellie had finished the job). Maybe Abby "deserves" to die (whatever that means) but does Lev deserve to lose someone? If Abby deserves all that after killing one guy, what does Ellie deserve after what she did in the game? I find these questions to be alot more interesting than what most videogames can muster. Plus story aside, this is one of the funnest, most intense games I've ever played. It's okay if you don't like it, I don't think you lack media literacy or anything. The main reason I responded to your comment is because I value forgiveness so much. I think forgiveness is a very powerful, beautiful thing, that takes great emotional strength and courage to use. Ellie will only be better off in the long run, by beginning to actually process and move on from her anger.
@@natedansereau I understand forgiveness can be a compelling theme, but it wasn't executed well here, mainly because Neil Druckmann and his yes-men are hateful people who deliberately undermined the meaning and appeal of the original game because they prioritized their own hackneyed execution of a "mature theme" over a well-written story or characters.
@@kodybuffettwilson can I just offer that you started this conversation, not by saying anything about poor execution or storytelling, but that certain characters did or didn't need forgiveness. Don't you think that if the story really was so bad, or the characters not compelling, you just wouldn't care who forgives what? Doesn't your (and mine and others') strong opinion about the moral issues presented in the story, demonstrate (that unlike many games) the themes have successfully made an emotional impact? (Thanks for your feedback so far btw)
Nah Abby needed to die at the end idc if she changed from killing Joel she still killed our only father figure letting Abby live was so stupid and the cycle would have ended cause Abby wouldn’t have anyone to get revenge for her idk man if Abby died not by Ellie I would be happy but she lives which is something I’m not ok with it doesn’t set right with me knowing she killed someone that is important to us and gets to live her life nah not a fan of that ending at all
I agree, Ellie "forgave" Abby but not that one's friends ? Ellie had to "forgive" Abby but Abby didn't need to forgive Joel ? What kind of double standard is that hypocrisy ?!
If the pregnancy will kill the mother, it will usually do so prior to when the baby is ready to be born. This means that when the mother dies, the baby will also die. Abortion is an option that gives one of them the opportunity to continue living. If you think this is horrible morality then you are broken.
Clicked this after seeing the uncharted vid, and only now noticing you have only 2 more 😮 glad I at least didn't find you in your 3year hiatus
Hopefully more to come, really love the Drake video!
Same
Can I just say, putting all your faith in one doctor that is part of an organisation proved to be ineffective and basically useless does not seem to be the best idea. they were fully prepared to kill they’re one known immune person instead of diligently undertake testing and working with Ellie’s immunity in a total knee jerk reaction just so they could avoid asking her what she wanted. I personally think the Joel was only wrong in lying to her afterwards. What he did, if anything at least kept an immune person alive and out of the hands of the useless fireflies that would’ve just killed her and empirically speaking, likely would’ve just messed it up anyway.
Agree. I saw the fireflies from part 1 as a pretty crazy and desperate group of people, which is fair given their circumstances I suppose. I believe Joel did the right thing saving Ellie.
Why is it so important to you that they ask Ellie’s consent for her sacrifice? *That is so mind-numbingly irrelevant to the story and its themes.* 1 we know she wanted to sacrifice herself and 2 if they asked her and she refused, do you think they would just respect that and let the hope of a cure disappear from the world forever???
Also they did plenty of tests on Ellie and determined that Ellie was a normal healthy girl despite having a mutated cordyceps growth in her brain.
@@durodesduvo8424 it’s not about the relevancy to the stories themes, you ask her consent because it’s a basic human right. You can’t just kidnap someone and then put them through surgery whilst they’re out cold.. irrespective of what Ellie might’ve said during a totally different day and context to a totally different person. Also, they really did not test her adequately.. all the tests they did took place in an hour or two.. I dunno if you’ve ever worked as or known anyone who’s worked as a scientist but the idea that they would go through with this surgery after that little testing is madness at best!
@@ashleymerritt9461 *Do you need to be reminded that this is a fictional story?* Hey is the worst part of this game for you the part when Joel survived and 100% recovered from being *impaled in the abdomen* thanks to stitches, several weeks of of rest, and a shot of antibiotics? It's not a totally realistic game, and that's ok.
Dude, they did their tests on Ellie, and then they were ready to do the surgery, that is the chain of events. You have to be able to suspend your disbelief to an extent with a fictional story like this, _obviously._
And yes, Ellie's human rights are being ignored for the "greater good", they incorporated a classic thought experiment in ethics called the "Trolley Problem" and the writers surely wouldn't undermine this thought experiment by making the Fireflies _too incompetent to carry out their mission of creating and distributing a vaccine,_ like you implied.
Nicely asking Ellie to sacrifice herself would accomplish nothing. It would change no one's mind about all this. The Fireflies would still want to make a cure at any cost, Ellie would still agree and Joel would still want to save her at any cost.
I just found out about your channel and it's incredible! the editing and the amount of effort put into every video is amazing and I absolutely love it. keep going man you definitely deserve way more subs!
please continue making these your essay videos i enyed it so much you can even make podcast i would love to hear them
We shall see.
You've earned a sub dude, you deserve more than 10. I hope you keep giving as much thought and putting as much effort into the videos you create. I especially appreciate the small glimpse into moral philosophy you gave along with the semi-humorous demeanour you have. I hope to see more from you :)
Much appreciated! I can't guarantee upload frequency, but I'm def chipping away at new videos!
Great video and narration watched this one and the uncharted one. Two of my favorite franchises in gaming and I really liked your content
Hey, great to hear
I'm very late, but nice video! I missed this back in the day, I've been playing through TLOU2 again with the ps5 remaster and OMG I really love this game, no game has made me feel so much as this has.. I guess I kinda get why people don't like it? But I thought it was amazing, they took a risk, it wasn't a safe boring sequel. It was something crazy
Yeah I think it's one of the best games
Great video man
Appreciate it
your videos have come a very long way from junior high
Hope so lol
pls make more videos
The one mantra to counter utilitarianism is "none of my business".
loved the uncharted video and now this one as well 🤝🤝🤝
Do not kill is the 6th commandment
you fucked with this video boss 👍👍
make more videos please😪😪
I used to think forgiveness had to be earned, or even deserved. But now I am not thinking this way.
I love this game, and this is a great video, but I gotta admit I laughed out loud when you called it "delicately written". TLOU2 is blunt as hell. Like, sledgehammer blunt, completely unsubtle in all the ways it had to be. Just sucks that people are too caught up in Joel's status as a protagonist to treat him like the character he is.
It's sort of a byproduct of its medium, though. I think the show version will benefit a lot from the distance of its story being told rather than played.
Thanks for your comment, I'm glad you liked the video. I think I thought it was delicate because there were lots of subtle parallels between Abby and Ellie's stories. Even like, visual parallels in the environments and stuff. Yeah lots of stuff is blunt but there are lots of allusions and lines or scenes with double meanings, stuff you wouldn't notice until a second playthrough. Compared to most videogames where the story is a cartoon, I think I'd ultimaley stand by "delicately written".
Abby did not deserve forgiveness and Joel never needed to be forgiven.
@@kodybuffettwilson doesn't matter who deserves what. If Ellie doesn't forgive, she will suffer more. She doesn't have to forgive, as long as she is willing to carry heavy burdens
@@natedansereau considering that she's left without the use of one hand as well as everyone she ever cared about and that cared for her after forgiving Abby, I'd say she would be much better off if she put down the sadistic maniac as soon as she had the chance. It's funny how the entire plot is contrived in order to justify her forgiving the woman who murdered her guardian in cold blood and it still is unable to make it a sensible or satisfying outcome. The entire game shouldn't have been made to begin with, since the ending of the original game was ambiguous enough on the surface to facilitate meaningful discourse, while the objective assessment still held up with both character motivations and logical cause and effect. This game insists upon one reading and one reading only: "violence is cyclical, revenge is empty, now go murder hundreds of faceless goons just to let the one character we have a meaningful conflict with live because the theme demands it." and any disputing of this is disregarded as "lacking media literacy" or "just being upset it wasn't something you wanted", etc.
@kodybuffettwilson hmmm. She left without the (full) use of one hand as well as everyone else she cared about after killing like 100 people, including an unborn baby. She probably still has to make up for that on some level (and Abby still would have fought back and bit her hand if Ellie had finished the job). Maybe Abby "deserves" to die (whatever that means) but does Lev deserve to lose someone? If Abby deserves all that after killing one guy, what does Ellie deserve after what she did in the game? I find these questions to be alot more interesting than what most videogames can muster. Plus story aside, this is one of the funnest, most intense games I've ever played. It's okay if you don't like it, I don't think you lack media literacy or anything. The main reason I responded to your comment is because I value forgiveness so much. I think forgiveness is a very powerful, beautiful thing, that takes great emotional strength and courage to use. Ellie will only be better off in the long run, by beginning to actually process and move on from her anger.
@@natedansereau I understand forgiveness can be a compelling theme, but it wasn't executed well here, mainly because Neil Druckmann and his yes-men are hateful people who deliberately undermined the meaning and appeal of the original game because they prioritized their own hackneyed execution of a "mature theme" over a well-written story or characters.
@@kodybuffettwilson can I just offer that you started this conversation, not by saying anything about poor execution or storytelling, but that certain characters did or didn't need forgiveness. Don't you think that if the story really was so bad, or the characters not compelling, you just wouldn't care who forgives what? Doesn't your (and mine and others') strong opinion about the moral issues presented in the story, demonstrate (that unlike many games) the themes have successfully made an emotional impact? (Thanks for your feedback so far btw)
Nah Abby needed to die at the end idc if she changed from killing Joel she still killed our only father figure letting Abby live was so stupid and the cycle would have ended cause Abby wouldn’t have anyone to get revenge for her idk man if Abby died not by Ellie I would be happy but she lives which is something I’m not ok with it doesn’t set right with me knowing she killed someone that is important to us and gets to live her life nah not a fan of that ending at all
*The last of us part 2 is a bad joke .*
People try to defend this game like it's some sort of gem. It's quite a mockery of forgiveness if you ask me.
Go back to your fanfic
@@howardron543 Learn to accept a opinión fanboy .
I agree, Ellie "forgave" Abby but not that one's friends ? Ellie had to "forgive" Abby but Abby didn't need to forgive Joel ? What kind of double standard is that hypocrisy ?!
I see you would value abortion to save a mother. That is s horrible morality. Every life matters.
If the pregnancy will kill the mother, it will usually do so prior to when the baby is ready to be born. This means that when the mother dies, the baby will also die. Abortion is an option that gives one of them the opportunity to continue living. If you think this is horrible morality then you are broken.