Ep. 32 Family Friendly: The History of the Minivan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มี.ค. 2022
- A classic car connaisseur tells the history of the car that changed the 1980's famliy life forever, the minivan/monospace/MPV!
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Shoutout to my boy DKW for making the Schnellaster, which is also a contender for a game of 'Who was the first?'
Somewhere on the net I saw a short video about the first ride of the original Daimler: Mrs. Daimler drove it (not Mr. ) with her kids & stuff to visit granma, so if you apply purpose as classification rule, the first car was a minivan.
@@foreyfriend145 @Forey Friend
@@foreyfriend145 Uhmmmm actually it was Mrs Benz.
HELLO EAR 🦻
It's funny to me that automakers are currently shoehorning 3rd row seating into every crossover. The 3-row crossover is the vehicle people buy when they say, "But I don't want a minivan!" The crossover wants to be a minivan, but is worse in every measurable metric.
Correct. VANity is a terrible thing!
Your absolutely right here even worse if someone buys just a front wheel drive crossover. It's like what's the point? Sure ok, by default the minivan isn't a sports car or anything sexy... but how many SUVs fit that bill let alone look unique? Nearly every SUV just kinda looks the same. At least the minivan market is unique enough that you can easily tell the difference between a Honda and a Chrysler with different ride dynamics to boot. Most SUVs just kinda look and drive the same. I think that will only get worse once everything is electric. They'll all share the same platforms and drivetrains. You watch and some call the minivan boring... lol.
Or is it the other way around? That Minivans want to be crossovers or SUVS first chanche they get?
@@EdsAutoReviews Some automakers keep trying to make their minivans more "Crossover-like" in an attempt to make them appeal to the CUV crowd. I don't think it ever really works though. GM tried it when they stapled a new longer "truck-like" nose onto their Venture and Montana vans and changed the names.
@@EdsAutoReviews Well the 2005 Chevy uplander definitely tries. It's got a long snout, and c pillar but that thing ain't fooling anyone. It's a face lifted Chevy Venture with less amenities. Think of simple things like cup holders in the doors, the Uplander doesn't even have that. Just an optional tray and two in dash cup holders. That's it. Believe it or not. Even the Venture gave you one in each door and if you want to talk about the lack of power the 3500 v6 that unfortunately graced these things runs out of steam almost as fast a Yugo. Rides like one too. Even in it's high end, heated leather seat configuration the thing absolutely rides like a drunken horse. Having that huge snout doesn't help parking any either. GM basically gave it the worst features of a minivan with the worst features of an SUV.. to make matters worse it doesn't add anything to the package. Even the Ford Freestar offered fold down to the floor seats! The Chevy Uplander? Nope. You can't even easily enter the 3rd row without snagging your clothing on some metal seat frame! Some might knock the Mercedes Benz vans for It's flaws, but that thing was designed to be a cargo van, not a passenger van so of course it lacks the features one might expect of one. Again this was a 2005 model, it was almost laughable that GM tried selling this. Clearly they didn't put much effort or time to consider what the market wanted out of a family hauler. The only good point I can say about it is the overhead DVD rail system is fairly nifty if you can get beyond the silly 6 inch screen and cheap plastics. It might have been GM at its worst, but this couldn't even pull off being a cargo van let alone some cushy crossover. It's clear to see why GM doesn't bother making minivans anymore. It's best attempt was as boring as unpainted dry wall and it's worst was an laughable pot belly pig or a dust buster.
Still driving an almost 18 year old Toyota Sienna. More practical and economical than any similar size SUV. Best vehicle I have ever owned.
My mom has hers and honestly that thing is probably the single most practical car my family has ever owned
I worked at a Dodge dealership in the 1980s, and our Dodge Caravan out sold everything and I still think it is the best vehicle ever made.
Chrysler quality was unbeatable
I drive a '95 Chrysler minivan. It can haul longer items than most pickup trucks - which often require the use of a trailer.
If you have a 2003 Toyota Sienna, you’re lucky, it’s a large minivan. Siennas now are huge!
A happy customer!
“Easy on the marketing there chief!” 😂 Fantastic episode.
Thanks!
We recently rented a new Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid to drive across the US twice. We first balked at having to drive a minivan thousands of miles. We were pleasantly surprised at how well it was appointed, how incredibly practical is was, how fuel efficient it was and how well it drove at nearly triple digit speeds for hours on end. It really had us rethinking the while minivan proposition.
“Especially their mother, well.. because family”
Dominic toretto would be proud.
There are new, imported Japanese minivans here in Australia, because some come from the factory with a wheelchair lift or ramp. Cars can be imported here no matter their age if there is no similar vehicle sold domestically, its often cheaper than doing conversions too.
There are plenty of grey import vans here. I love the look of the Nissan and Toyota's, low, fat & wide with tinted windows, too much chrome and alloy wheels to match...
Interesting! There are a few companies in the U.S. that do minivan conversions for ramps or lifts, but no vans are sold from the factory that way. I think the conversion companies work with the automakers to develop a standard process for the conversions, though.
Also in the Uk we have imported previas etc
@@DrJatzCrackers Nissan nomad?
So much of NZ and Australia's second hand car market are just grey imports from Japan. It's kinda crazy if you stop and think about the ammount of vehicles.
11:52 It is a sad commontary on the way that Peugeot had damaged Citroen that the latter found anything "too risky". I mean this was the company that gambled on front wheel drive in the 1930s, that started engineering work on the French answer to the Ford Model T in the 1930s, and created the spaceship like DS with hydropneumatic suspension. The idea that they could consider any concept "too risky" is sad.
I get that but on the other hand it was exactly this behaviour which nearly resulted in the collapse of Citroën in the form of the SM. Without Peugeot we wouldn’t have Citroën…
I just watched a 20 minute video on minivans and I don't regret it one bit. Eds ability to tell a story is so good I'm sure he can make a story about paint drying
"On the next episode of Ed's Auto Reviews... watch me watching paint dry!"
@@EdsAutoReviews like I said, I will gladly watch
The way I understood Chrysler’s development of the minivan came from Lee Iococca during his tenure at Ford. They were working on the minivan concept for the US market which was shot down by upper management. There was tension between Lee and the CEO of Ford and when Lee was fired he took the concept with him. That and the K car saved Chrysler with government supported bailout funds.
K car allowed them to pay them back hella early.
That's true. Lee and Henry Ford II didn't get along well.
So Lee got fired in the late 70s and took some of the talent behind the Ford Carrousel concept back to Chrysler.
Not only Chrysler paid their debt in advance, they got so much money reserves they were able to purchase AMC, Lamborghini and release new platforms and powertrains after a decade of solely developing K-Car based vehicles.
Some people may still think Chrysler Corporation's best era was the 60s to early 70s, but financially speaking the mid 80s to mid 90s were even better. Unfortunately, we all know what happened after that...
Lee had the scope of how important modular design and platform sharing was in a soft market
@@duncandmcgrath6290 To a ridiculous point. Remember the Le Baron charriot ? With "Corynthian" leather ? 🤣
@@luisinhoens90 Not so in the 70's oil crisis. They only had V8 gas guzzlers, dated cars. They then slapped together the ominious Dodge Omni (!) and sold rebadged Diamond Star cute but crappy cars.
Thank you so much for mentioning the Scout Scarab. Most people just completely ignore the earlier parts of history that later had a comeback. Early electric cars, for example where almost completely forgotten. At the start of the video I was talking to my screen saying, "Please mention the Scarab," Thank you again. Great video.
Most car designers and design historians would say that the Scarab was the first Minivan.
I love the Scarab. What a completely awesome and unique design.
One, to me, interesting aspect of the minivan when it first arrived in the United States. For regulatory reasons, which is a nice way of saying the automotive industry got what they wanted, they were considered light trucks and not as passenger vehicles even though the Chrysler was built on a front wheel drive passenger car platform. This not only let them have a higher fuel consumption allowance, but, also meant they did not have to meet the more stringent passenger car crash and safety standards. So, you have a vehicle specifically designed and marketed to carry families with young children that did not meet the more stringent, even then, safety standards of the time. If you can find me something more screwed up than that I'd like to hear it. This definitely cost lives.
@Kirk Wolfe i'm sorry who suggested something like that? Certainly not me. I think perhaps you're projecting. Or perhaps something else
@Kirk Wolfe Go to any SCCA event. You'd be surprised what gets raced.
School buses? Hard walls and floors, no seatbelts or safety devices of any kind.
@@jimjamauto you are quite wrong. School buses have been crash tested all the way back into the 1930s. Despite your uninformed opinion, they are extremely safe. Very hard to find an example of a child being killed while on one
@Kirk Wolfe Chrysler offered a turbo manual trans mini van for a while.
I am currently still using my parent's old 2002 Chrysler Voyager as a commuter. It's decent on gas, fits in most parking spaces, plenty of room for my tools, and I don't care if it gets dinged up in a crowded parking garage.
My mom uses a late 90's plymouth voyager. It's on its last legs, but considering how she treats it, it's doing well.
@@henryfleischer404 (update) Just after posting the original comment I had an accident with it and had to retire it. 😀 I just replaced it with a 2015 Grand Caravan. All the newer minivans regardless of brand are the same length. About a foot and a half longer than the ol' Voyager. I'd prefer the more compact size.
Alphard/Vellfire and the Lexus LM...
Looks hideous from outside but damn the interior is like Rolls Royce living room on wheels.
Needs a British butler serving tea.
In my country, you will be mocked if you drive those car, you had to have a driver
As a gay man, I enjoyed calling minivans "Hetero Haulers" because no gay man with any dignity would have been caught dead in one. 😉
😂
Prius huh?
🤣
wtf that's hilarious
We owned a steady progression of Dodge and Plymouth minivans for our growing, young family throughout the 2000’s and 2010’s. They were just what we needed.
Great way to start my Sunday
When the Chrysler minivan came out I had a wife, daughter, son, dog,and cat. I was conciering a station wagon but did not want to feed the fuel consuption they were noted for. It lasted for 13 years and I concider it the best automotive investment I ever made.
To add to the story. The Ford Aerostar and GM Astro minivans were front engine/rear drive vehicles based on small/mid-sized car platforms. The Ford version had terrible problems with weak automatic transmissions. Ford later shifted their minivan to the FWD Taurus car platform and named it the Windstar. GM also offered a second generation minivan, like with Ford's Windstar with FWD and based on mid-sized/large size car platforms. Sadly too the Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth minivans have had problems with their automatic transmissions during much of their run until the last 10 years or so. Chrysler/Dodge, Honda and Toyota minivans are still sold here in the USA and Canada, mainly to large families.
The Astro and Safari were Mid Size Vans not mini vans, they were 18% smaller than the full size G Series vans of the time and shared much of their under pinnings with the S10 and S10 Blazer. The big difference with the Astro and Safari besides their size is that at the end of the day, they were designed to be a smaller G Series with creature comforts not found in a van, the Caravan, Lumina MPV, Winstar, Venture/Transport/Montana, and Uplander/Montana SV6 were from day one MPVs, meant to be people haulers with extra cargo space. Basically Astros are at the end of the day still light trucks and based on a commercial vehicle platform, where as the Caravan was a K Car with a Van body
I see lots of Japanese minivans.
My parents were given their cousin’s Aerostar. Yo me it was the most MPV like Espace style American vehicle.
We had an 86 Astro in blue and later mom traded it in and got a 2000 Astro in dark grey. They were excellent vehicles. Wish they still made them now!
I had a '92 Aerostar that was perfect for my family of four kids and at least one dog. When the SUV's came out, my thoughts were (and still are), "What -- we're going back to the station wagons we grew up with in the 60's and 70's?"
Trends are cyclic
I love the video. As an American of a certain age I live through all of this. Couple of bits of trivia. In the mid 80s the Japanese also saw this phenomenon and decided to compete in the United States. Toyota first, then Nissan and Mitsubishi, brought over there Japanese vans to the US. Both passenger and cargo versions. These were one box Cabover real wheel drive designs. I think the Toyota version sold OK for a while but then interest disappeared. They really weren't competitive in the US market because of their size and power. Not to mention they looked like complete death traps in the front.
These days Chrysler sells a minivan in the United States, along with Honda, Kia and of course, Toyota. The new sienna is a complete re-design and only sold as a hybrid. It cells pretty well
I remember those 1980s mid-engined Japanese vans...friend of mine in college had the Toyota Van. I also recall the Nissan Van was prone to engine fires and eventually Nissan bought all of them back from customers
And the Plymouth vans and K cars were CHEAP!
@@chrisfreemesser5707 A guy I knew with a Toyota van used to drive it like Dan Gurney at the Indy 500. The bumper only being a foot in front of the driver always worried me.
Knew a guy who bought the Chrysler van with every option. Nothing worked right. Don't know what he did with it.
I was a parts driver for a So. CA Toyota dealership in 89-90, Had this van as one of our delivery vehicles. Fun to drive as I recall, but in the cargo van configuration it had poor visibility to the rear and large blind spots.
Gold star for including the Scarab, still waiting for Mr. Leno to drive one on his channel.
11:19 that looks fairly similar to the Land Rover Discovery, excluding the front end. The cars were decades apart, but it's still interesting, seeing the similarities.
Yep, it looks nice. We never had those in Canada.
Indeed. Always it looks like some kind of land to to rover
Great Episode, absolutely love the 1980s part! From European perspective, one might want to add two significant compact minivans which i was kind of missing in this video:
The Volkswagen Touran, a compact version of the Sharan, being continously successful in Europe, more than 2.5 million units being sold since 2003
The Dacia Jogger, a budget 7seater minivan introduced in 2022, a clear sign this segment is not dead
I recently bought a new Pacifica hybrid for my family and love it. I traded in a 2013 Mercedes ML 550 for it and honestly, the Pacifica is so much better to live with. Who cares that it's not "cool".
Most people.
The right attitude makes any car cool, well almost
POOR Chrysler american quality sell it fast
@@juansanchez-rm6wc I think he'll be fine. He's gotten used to poor quality. I mean, M-B ML...
The Nissan Prairie (sold as the "Multi" in Canada and the Stanza Wagon in the US) was the first vehicle sold here that had sliding doors on both sides. The follow up "Axxess" also had sliding doors on both sides. It would be a while longer before any of the US made minivans got sliding doors on both sides - I don't know why considering that it's a pretty obvious idea. I think these could both be considered minivans, but neither had a real third row option (just side or rear facing jump seats in the back).
Doors on one side assume that parking will be along a street so the door is opposite the drivers position.
@@bobroberts2371 which makes perfect sense for a cargo van or large passenger van. But for minivans two sliding doors makes more sense - note that they all have them now.
Always looked leaky and faulty to me, especially the powered ones.
The Prairie not only offered a real third row seat, but also a front 3 seat option, so you could buy an 8 seater Prairie. In fact that was their development principle, being able to sit 8 adults inside. But those models weren't offered in the US or Canada, or many other countries... They only sold in Japan, Australia and other bunch of countries. And to be fair, the third row may be for Japanese adults, but not for taller people overseas.
I own an 8 seater Prairie and it's great, I don't get why it couldn't be considered a minivan as well as the Chariot that was a 7 seater... And both Prairie and Chariot released before the Voyager and so...
@@rogersmith7396 I have no experience with the powered sliding doors, but my grandparents' minivan doors never leaked. After all, they don't just slide -- when closing, they push in too, much like a regular swinging door.
I think the GM W platform has an interesting story behind it, lost a lot of money. Would be an interesting topic some time.
yes, The Buick GL8 is a rather fascinating extension of it for example.
A coworker bought a Dodge Caravan in early 84, with wood paneling on the sides. We all came out to look at this strange creature. After only a few minutes we were convinced that despite its shortcomings (sliding door only on one side and lackadaisical power) it was a true game changer.
I grew up in a family that always had a minivan. We still have two! But with most of the kids now adults, myself included, my mom will probably get an SUV or crossover in the near future since she likes the higher ride height
Get her a thick seat cushion.
And the horrific gas milage too...
mine wants to downsize and get a BEV so its cheaper and easier to live with
Interesting. I also grew up in a minivan family and have one for my own family. My elderly parents actually perfect the seat height of the minivan but drives a crossover bc my mom prefers smaller vehicles. My dad usually drives my minivan to shuttle my kids even tho his suv is much fancier. He (as do I) love the versatility and functionality of the minivan.
@@Wasabi9111 mom had a chevy 2004~ blazer before this but it was costing to much to fuel/running costs ect and before that was a Oldsmobile hard-top/4-door cuttly but her excuse was is it didn't fit her single party/drunk moms needs but she's more historically a GT car buyer and would likely go back to that or a sports car or mini truck aka something like the ford ranger but all electric as now days she loves gardening something about being therapeutic and or keeping her out of trouble with the law ect
How can Chrysler be so inventive yet always dying
Because in general their cars don't last as long as some other brands
The question is are they really innovative these days? Apart from the Chrysler Airflow Concept and the Pacifica and Pacifica PHEV, they're not doing much. The Voyager is a Pacifica with less options at a cheaper price, and the 300 is outsold by the Dodge Charger and Challenger because they decided to drop the SRT8 for the North American market. I really hope they get innovative again so they don't go bankrupt again.
Its what they do. The 50s tailfin cars rusted out in about two years and no one would be caught dead in one after 4 years. Their muscle cars were completely over the top.
@@alphatrion100 So far my Jeep appears to be very good quality. Fingers crossed.
@@rogersmith7396
And you should just enjoy it.
But personally i wouldn't keep a fiat/chrysler product for too many miles. I think its common knowledge by now most of their engines dont reach toyota mileages without problems.
Good morning Eds! Cheers to the best growing car channel 🙂
I've owned a number - Caravan..Voyager..Silhouette..GMC Safari (Same as Chev Astro). I loved the Safari. It was built on the S10 pickup platform and as such had a full frame. Really great tow capacity.
I think as a precursor you should also consider the "so much obscure you didn't noticed it existed" 1914 A.L.F.A. (later Alfa-Romeo) 40/60 HP Aerodinamica which is more aerodynamic than the CGV and very much a monovolume
Thanks! I will touch on this in a future video about the early aerodynamic cars.
@@EdsAutoReviewsgotta love some early aero
When my wife and I were expecting child #4 in 2006 it was decided to -upgrade- buy a minivan, a 06 Grand Caravan. For all the fun I poke at it, it's been good. Still have it. In fact, yesterday it turned over 299K miles. From Texas, it's taken us as far south as Monterey Mexico and as far north as Indianapolis Indiana.
Had a real good laugh about the Fiat Useless, love it xD. Ford and VW discontinuing their mv's is not quiet right. Here in Europe VW still offers the Sharan and the smaller Touran while Ford still offers the Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max (Edit: and even the B-Max). Same thing with the Focus and Fiesta.
Ford is selling those in Europe? They don't currently sell any of those models in the U.S. here Only SUV's, trucks, the Mustang, and SUV Mustang
@@danielpassigmailcom Yes thats right. Thats because its allways about that type of "big" cars in the U.S. There seems to be not enough demand/ profit margin for "small cars" except when there are crises and/ or you can't effort to buy anything but small fuel efficient cars.
While here in Europe the trend is going towards SUV's and Crossovers too they are even smaller than what you guys would consider "compact" or "small". Just look at the 2014 EcoSport or 2019 Puma from Ford or the 2017 T-Roc, 2018 T-Cross and 2021 Taigo from VW. They are offered alongside the Fiesta/Focus and UP/Polo/Golf .
I remember my mom buying one of the first Plymouth caravans that came out. People (mainly adults with children) were constantly wanting to see what this new vehicle was all about. I was starting to drive and I’d load up friends on the weekends for fishing, football games, and heading toward the beach. There wasn’t a stigma attached to it when it first came out.
We owned several minivans when our two boys were at home. Seeing one reminds me of practicality, utilitarian, and adventurous. They were all of these things for us.
My parents got a Dodge Grand Caravan when I was young. It really was just like a tall spacious car. I remember liking the wedge look of the Transport but my dad went with the Dodge which was a good call in hindsight.
Had friend whose parents had a Ford Aerostar. What a hunk of junk. It definitely felt like a van: tall and wobbly; felt like you were in a metal box as opposed to a car.
The Previa was offered in the US with AWD, a turbo and a manual. The Aerostar and Caravan were also available with manuals. The Caravan could also be bought with a turbo.
We loved our minivans. we put on lots of miles on family road trips and vacation. First a Chrysler caravan, then a ford windstar. Loved them both.
My friends mom had a Dodge Caravan Turbo Manual 5-speed back in the day.
We used to borrow it a lot to cruise around town in. What she didn't know is that before we would leave, we would take out all the seats except the front two seats.
The van was a total sleeper. Even the cops were surprised when we would pull away from Mustangs from stoplight to stoplight.
The van became sort of a thing that summer. Beige with wood panel and a little Turbo badge on the side.
Bravo on this, Mr. Ed! It really is kind of sad to see the minivan fade away into history. My parents had a handful of them while I was growing up.. a ‘92 Previa, ‘00 Ford Windstar, ‘04 Honda Odyssey and a couple Mid ‘00’s Caravans that faithfully carted us around and tolerated my first-time-driver antics 😆🙈 Don’t know if it’s been done already, but you should look into the history of the small pickup with all of its ups/downs!
As an aging life-long American car guy, I've really enjoyed your videos. One quibble with the last bit of this one, though. I've lived and worked in China off and on for a long time (decades). China is *NOT* undergoing a new baby boom. But the minivan is definitely a thriving car type there. One of it's primary applications is short-haul business transport (to and from meetings in the same city, between nearby cities, picking people up from the airport, etc.). Upscale (even "tuner") customized minivans are part of the stable of personal cars maintained by wealthy Chinese for moving their large entourages of lackeys, yes-men and mistresses around. But no baby boom.
I've been driving a Chevy Astro for the last decade and have no plans of replacing it. Great little van!
My first car was a misubishi expo lrv, a usdm short wheelbase chariot. It was awesome. Good to see it referenced anywhere, even briefly! Great job as always Ed.
Nice to see you include the old British Commer, always thought it was a cute and friendly shape (also liked the Bedford van). Would like more songs in future videos! ;)
The DustBusters bit was awesome and singing was great!
We've owned them for decades now. They're perfect for things like hauling kids but also camping.
Many people live in a minivan year round.
@@timothykeith1367 Yeah this is true. They're a lot more roomy and comfortable given the same size compared to an SUV..
Thankfully I did not spend my youth in the back of a minivan. I had my license by 1985.
My youth was spent in late 60's muscle and mid 70's personal luxury.
Mercedes 250 with half a million miles on it for me.
"based on the Fiat 600"
Shows Fiat 500
Everything fine
Canadians in particular loved their minivans (with historic sale volumes to prove it) and those small vans are quite personal to me. My dad was a line worker for Chrysler between 1974-2016 and probably assembled a few million minivans. My parents proudly bought a new 1984 Dodge Caravan during their engagement and then used it as a camper for their honeymoon up north. They were still 3 years out from having children, which may speak to an earlier minivan image more associated with versatility and less with uncool kid transportation. The '84 was replaced by a 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan (driven until 2011), which was about when SUVs started popping up locally here. Eventually I too worked at the plant as a part-time assembler during my undergraduate studies (2008-2013), which was a great experience.
(and here's an obscure shout out to the VW Routan
for absolutely no reason)
Instant like))
Ed, I’m always waiting your new videos so much!
I owned a 96 Caravan, loved it, perfect family car. ...
Thanks for another brilliantly well thought out and edited video. You’ve temporarily made minivans ‘cool’… well maybe not cool … but rather ‘interesting’ again. Cheers!
From an American perspective, I was a Silicon Valley kid that grew up in the metro area outside San Francisco in the 80s before our family moved to the Pacific Northwest in the 90s.
A lot of our road trips to visit family in the Sierra Nevada were made possible with our ‘86 Chevy Astro, to the point where we would road trip 14 hours each way twice a year from the 90s to the early 2000s back to California.
The mini-van, and later our transition to a Chevy G20 conversion van for family trips, was far superior than using an SUV. For the same towing capacity for hauling speedboats, trailers full of motorcycles, and the regular hardware / landscaping store runs as we renovated our house, these vans did just as well with the same powertrain as a Chevy GMT400 platform like a Suburban, Tahoe, or crew-cab Silverado, but with actual leg room through higher seat heights and better ingress/egress through a traditional van’s side doors.
There’s a reason lots of families in America still keep buying Ford, RAM, Nissan, and Mercedes “Sprinter” style cargo vans as family haulers, especially with a traditional 4x4 transfer case option.
If the Big Three in America weren’t saddled with stupid government regulations and trying to pander to the “anti-car” Millennials and Gen Z (who aren’t having children to haul around, anyway), the focus would shift towards these people-mover cargo van conversions instead of ridiculous $100k luxury lifted trucks and EV cars that aren’t selling.
We’re back in a Malaise Era, where instead of cushy upholstery and chrome, we’re compensating for poor product design with “infotainment” systems.
I went to Tokyo on business in 1982 and saw Toyota and Mitsubishi minis everywhere. When I got home I told my wife about them and how I thought they'd be really popular over here. Voila, 1983 Chrysler changed the industry. Drove a Pontiac TranSport while our kids were young and thought it was a pretty good vehicle. The 3 liter six was responsive and gave pretty good fuel economy and the seats were all individual and removable for amazing flexibility
I've always really liked them Dustbusters and have owned more than one.
The initial crappy engine/tranny choice ruined the car, but introduction of the 3800 engine with 4-speed OD tranny in 1992 made it a very decent vehicle.
And when you look at what the "weird" things were about the Dustbuster:
* Massive windshield far away from the driver. Many manufacturers have used similar design - just years later.
* Taillights up on the pillars. Haven't we seen a lot of that too? Later, of course.
* Glass fibre body. What's wrong with that? It wouldn't dent. It wouldn't rust. It's good enough for sports cars. And it wouldn't let heat through nowhere near as fast as metal.
I live in the north, there are real winters here, and when I switch off the engine in a normal car at -20C, i can feel the temperature drop very fast. The Dustbusters body material slows this process down a lot. Same thing happens in reverse on a hot summers day - the Dustbusters are never too hot to enter, even with that black roof...
If I could get my hands on a decent 3800 Dustbuster today, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and drive it daily.
***
Rant over - thanks for another brilliant episode! 👍
Pontiac version was briefly sold in Europe too, my granny's bro still owns one to this very day and uses it to pull a boat trailer. Even more interestingly, the european spec one comes with a 5-speed manual and a 4 cylinder (likely Opel?) engine.
I ran service calls for a major corporation and used my own vehicles for the first 26 years. In the first 13 of those years I went through 6 vehicles that I bought used. For the next 13 years I drove a 1994 Pontiac Trans Sport with the 3800 that I also bought used. Wonderful vehicle. Small outside but huge amount of interior space. When I finally stopped using it, it had 382 thousand miles on and the engine was still running fine. The transmission was slipping and even though I really would have liked to keep driving it, I couldn't justify the price of a new transmission on a vehicle that old and with as many miles as it had. Since my company paid me for driving it and with it being so reliable, I made money driving it for all those years. It broke my heart when I finally had to let it go. Oh, and with the plastic body, when cleaned up, it still looked new the whole time...
Thank you Ed, for the Wagoneer nod! They're quite the item... currently.
Remember when minivans came with optional tvs in the head rests? That was luxury. And in a van!
My family has owned two Honda Odyssey over my lifetime, still got 2016 going strong, I learned to drive in it and it's actually quite fun, that V6 is no slouch. Gonna miss minivans when they eventually die out in the North America
The homeless will inhabit them for years to come.
I recently traded my Dodge Grand Caravan for a Ram 1500 crew cab. Essentially I sacrificed the 3rd row seat for a truck bed, but both vehicles have the same engine (albeit the truck has been tuned to 305 hp vs 285 hp in the van). Overall where I live in the US, a truck is much more versatile for what my needs are than a minivan now.
& always a bitch trying to find a pick up truck when you need one, better to own one.
Aaaah, the same engine ?? A 5 liter Hemi in a mini van ? I doubt that...
@@marcryvon 3.6L V6 in both
@@marcryvon never heard of a V6 RAM?
@@mental_modeler2952you could get a pen to star V6 in the base model RAM until this year I believe
The fact you recalled the Lancia Megagamma is pretty much remarkable
And by the way, it is the FIAT Ulysse, not useless.
And the Zafira still exists, even if it called Zafira Life and it is just the passenger version of the Vivaro, related to the Citroen Jumpy and its twins.
I don't like the way Stellantis is going. It seems all of their vans and some other cars are suddenly replaced by Peugeots, while both Opel and FIAT had nicer platforms and more innovative engineering. You can recognise the Peugeot platform very quickly from one of the symptoms of its idiotic budget design: a noticeable pause after you press the horn. You can almost get out the calendar, count the weeks until impact, have the collision and only then the horn will warn the other traffic. I haven't tested the latest Peugeot or Opel Astra for the way they drive but I severely disliked the handling of some modernish mid range Peugeots. Let's hope they at least improved on that.
Ahh, the Caravan. The perfect family driving pod. My son is still using our 2005. Stow-and-go seating, a sliding door on each side, and 300,000 km on the odometer. Starting to rust now but still going strong.
We still own and use our Buick Estate & Lesaber Station Wagons. No need for a van (full sized or mini) when you can pile everyone into one of these, with luggage, groceries, etc for a nice road trip. One other type of mini-van you failed to mention was the Ford Pinto Station Wagon. What they did was make a station wagon sized car into a panel van with dome shaped port windows on the two rear sides (one each per side), then the whole rear half was carpeted, with a folding middle row bench seat that provided enough room to use a blow up mattress for two American adults.
I loved ours. It was great for going to the drive in movie theater, for vacations we could still tow our pop-up trailer, it was certainly one of the coolest looking mini-vans made before the term really caught on in the USA.
The story of Chinese matket Buick GL8 minivan deserves its own episode. It's fascinating how the Chevy Venture escaped the American minivan extinction and continued its life till today across the pacific.
Good News.
A new video from Ed!!!!
I remember the Trans Sport had the impact resistant doors. They worked but could still got scratches and gouges. Back then, plastics were still new to the autobody industry and a means to make repairs to them from local shops ranged from " leave it alone," to " It won't last." A lot of catching up and self learning was done. Which reminds me: the plastics used back then were below par to begin with. Dashboards always cracked. Now they are more resistant.
My most memorable as a child minivan in my family is the Plymouth Grand Voyager, Ford Aerostar and the Ford Windstar
My parents had a Nissan Livina (Brazilian Nissan Note) based on a Renault based on a Dacia (that was the worst 0 km car we had). Before that we always had Station Wagons, Fiat Palio Weekend and Fiat Marea Weekend. Now we have a T-Cross long-wheelbase made in Brazil. #SAVETHEWAGONS
Great video mate! Always love your content, Ed!
I have a 2006 Sienna and it is still our daily driver. It has been the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever had but it is starting to succumb to the harsh climate and road salt here in Canada. I didn’t want to get a minivan but after our second child was born my wife insisted we needed one. Shortly after we bought it I was convinced because not only is it practical but also very comfortable for long road trips.
Hahaha
I like how the beginning shot with the van pulling out of the garage.. and the wood paneling on the van looks like it matches the house.. like you're just driving part of your house around
Peter Lynch said in one of his books that he loaded up on Chrysler stock in the early 80s as they could not lose. They got low interest loans and contract with the government to sell millions of K Cars along with concession from the unions.
We Need A Video On The History Of Tyres
BAH-zil and to-MAH-to rather than BA-zil and to-MA-to, yes, but I draw the line at misspelling tires.
@@michelleeden2272 ffs, different english dialects have different spellings for certain words, "tire" being one. the above commenter is probably from a commonwealth country ("tyre" = british spelling) , let them be
@@michelleeden2272 Tires? become fatigued? , hehehe. Herb has a "H" at the beginning and there is a "L" in solder..... but lets not get bogged down with who knows how to English language better eh?
I love my Caravan. Smooth ride and lots of cargo space. Especially going to the lumber yard for picking up 4 x 8 sheets of plywood
Yup, luv that most pick ups can’t claim that.
The Aerostar and the 2000s something Grand Caravan were my childhood road trip homes for sure. Spacious and reliable.
Nice to create something entertaining out of boring cars. 👍🏻
I'll trade you a microphone for a Mount Prospect police car.
As long as the lighter works…
I submit for consideration the unique Dymaxion car a non-production 3 wheeled aerodynamic concept designed by futurist Buckminster Fuller.
Just for getting kids in and out of car seats, nothing beats a mini-van. The wide sliding doors are the best.
In my opinon you should have mentioned the first mazda mpv,
They came out only 2 or so years after the Chrysler's very first Minivan.
Aaaand the 4x4 Version is a true Offroader.
It was actually more like four or five years after the Chryslers and, I would argue, it was the first modern crossover.
Think about it:
-Modified passenger car platform (the HC-series 929/Luce)
-Relatively long and flat hood (by minivan standards), something that became even more apparent with the 1995 facelift
-Conventionally hinged rear door(s) (not a novelty in Europe or Asia, but very rare in the North American market)
-The aforementioned 4WD option (and it was a true 4WD system with a locking center diff)
make a episode The History of the SUV
My folks and I are American, but none of us have owned a minivan. When my folks decided to sell their Honda Civic wagon, my dad wanted a Plymouth Voyager but mom flat refused to be seen in one. They bought her first Subaru wagon instead, complete with a five speed that she loved. I learned to drive on that. When it had run over 125,000 miles, they bought one of the first Subaru Foresters in the USA and sold the first Subie. That too has a five speed, as my mom enjoys driving a manual. The car is almost 25 years old and she still has it. (The Forester is billed as an SUV, but it's really a wagon with a taller roofline and might be a CUV by today's standards.) Despite wanting to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood in sluggish comfort, dad has never owned one either. And me? I'm closing in on fifty and drive a midlife crisis-mobile in the form of a Mazda Miata.
I actually didn’t spend my early toddler years in these. Being an Only Child had it’s perks of my mom owning an 84’ Toyota Celica, and later on a 94’ Nissan 240SX throughout my early childhood. Those cars were so much fun. My mom has told me time and time again, her 240SX was her most favourite car she ever owned.
As someone who has owned a 1999 Grand Espace and drove it for nearly 200,000 km, I'll go for a Minivan again, but not for a SUV. SUVs are Minivans with skin cancer, having completely useless swellings, chrome atrocities and a surface that lets a rocky coast look like a smooth landscape in comparison.
“But it’s a Renault, so they got rid of it fast. Good for them.” That made me laugh!
Yeah my mom had one, total pos, bought it new too. I hated it
That DustBusters ad was TH-cam gold! 👍👍👍
This really helped humanity can identified with civilization for comfort, safe, versatility, and efficiency and greatest Chrysler contribution to humanity
Minivans are brilliant for families, many fond memories of my mom's old 06 Sienna. We did cross country trips with 2 kids and 2 dogs, can't do that in her current highlander "SUV".
I've always liked minivans... when they were cool and even when they weren't. Some day, they will be popular again when people get bored of their crossovers and SUVs and rediscover how practical and efficient minivans really are. Everything old is new again. Good thing there are still a few "mini" vans being built.
Another early near-minivan was the Oldsmobile Vista cruiser, a stretched Cutlass wagon with a raised roof in the back and 3 rows of seats. Because of the raised roof, it had more cargo room than most "full size" wagons of the day. By the time it was discontinued for 1973, many of its features had been worked into GM's huge "clamshell" wagons which survived until the first wave of downsizing for the 1977 model year.
My Father owned two VW Kombis! The First Brand new in 1973! That Vehicle took ! Two adults, Two children, Two dogs, one cat, Two rabbits and two Hamster from Long Island New York to Pittsburgh PA! He Owned IT Till 1990! Ok! Ok! He put an electric heater on the dash and kept a hand ice scraper nearby! My Dream Vehicle is Still A Type 2 In any Variant! I Remember when Chrysler came out with the Dual Sliding doors!? Saying how they Invented the Easy access? VS Did it in the 1940-1950's! Also the AWD! VW had it with the Syncro Versions in Early 1980's! Just in Looks Alone! The Chevy Astro wAs a Mini Van?! Looked just like it's bigger version! Thanks For Sharing This Video
My parents never owned a minivan. Closest thing they had was Volvo 240 wagon.
I owned a '09 Mazda5 for about 6 years and it was a very practical vehicle. Now that's a true "mini" van. There's nothing mini about today's vans (at least here in the US).
I see minivans being more practical with an unparalleled level of comfort for the the 3rd row of seats.
Отличный рассказчик,очень интересно. Огромное спасибо за выпуск! :)
I really enjoyed that! I have been an owner of a 1996 and 2003 Astrovan (currently), and I love em. Arguably the largest mini-van available. I have put considerable money into upkeep. I use it for both family AND business -- the making and delivery of doors. The Astro is irreplaceable. It is the perfect, perfect size for me. I wish somebody else would make something like it! If my Astro blew up, I wouldn't know what to replace it with. And its looks are incredible.
What originally inspired my van-love was without question the VW van. I always wanted one. But I don't think you can get a 4x8 sheet of plywood into a Vanagon. You CAN do it with the Astro.
One of the film clips that blew me away near the end was the van front seats that rotated completely around and the drop down table and suddenly -- INSTANT CONFERENCE! That was REALLY cool!
Sooooo wish they still made Astros! growing up we had an 86 and then a 2000.
Now this has an interesting feature. It has a dust jacket, books used to have these to protect the covers... of course that was before they had dust-repellent paper. And if you're interested in dust; we have a quaint little piece from the 1990's... it's called a "Lumina APV"
-First off, great video as always, consistently great presentation 👍.
-Secondly, the driver of the Walker electric delivery van usually stood up while driving.
-Thirdly Just raise the minivan 3 inches, take off the expensive to produce sliding doors (easily the minivan's best feature), make the first few have 4 wheel drive, call it a "Sports Utility Vehicle", and pay pop stars to sing about them, you'll sell a billion to everyone from rappers, to soccer moms, to wannabe weekend warriors.
The blobmobile is alive and well, and the American land yacht has never been yachtier.
(BTW, that's quite literally the only reason that "SUV"s don't have sliding doors, they'd be letting the cat out if the bag)
Growing up in the 1980s and '90s (US), we never had a minivan. Though Mom had a classic Saab 900 with a sizable trunk and fold-down backseat. And Dad made his VW Jetta's backseat armrest/cupholder thing removable, so he could haul long objects like 2x4s (lumber) or pipes in it through the hole to the trunk. 🙂 (He also added a trailer hitch for a small trailer.)
My grandparents always had a van though. Grandpa had a full-size van in the '70s-'80s, and replaced it with a blue 1990 Plymouth Voyager, followed by a tan 1992 Voyager with fake-wood sides. Dad borrowed both for the occasional road trip, or for things that were too big for Dad's Jetta -- especially after Mom moved out when she and Dad were divorcing. And me and my brother went up to our grandparents' lake cabin in all three vans many times in the '80s and '90s.
The last hurrah for the '92 Voyager was a family road trip to the Tetons and Yellowstone in 2000. Grandma and Grandpa had already traded in their Lincoln for a late-90s Ford Windstar minivan by then. And in the early 2000s they got rid of the Voyager after Grandpa stopped driving. Soon after, Grandma replaced the Windstar with a Chrysler PT Cruiser, in part because it was the most vanlike car* and was easier to park than a minivan. Plus the PT turned out to be really practical anyway -- which was especially good when _I_ ended up with it in the 2010s, after _Grandma_ quit driving.**
* At her age, it was easier to step up into a van than to crouch down into a regular car. Her sister had a different minivan -- I forget what make and model -- for the exact same reason.
** I still have it. It still has less than 100,000 miles on it, since I don't drive it much more than she did. Though it is starting to show its age more, and could use an oil change.
My old 1995 Caravan is still one of my favorite cars ever.
Thanks for making these videos man I really enjoy them... You do a great job!