@blueridgeboy you are almost correct ray didnt teach chad Chad went to and left hms to crew chief in 2001 and then came back when gordon called and Gordon owes the whole 48 team and the reason the 48 team worked good was gordon 01 and 02 cars that won races just with a different paint scheme that's why they started with a championship car when they started with 2 hungry guys that need to prove themselves
Manual Clutch and now it’s single file racing with hardly any tough battles, leaders pulling away from the main pack. Its boring now. I haven’t watched a race sense 2008. I’ll stick to my local tracks where racing is still fun to watch
That’s why NASCAR ain’t doing too good. They do this every time something new comes out that whips everyone’s ass. They did it with the superbird and the charger Daytona, and they keep doing it to this day. It’s sad because NASCAR could’ve gone it a really cool direction if they allowed cars like these to do their thing.
@@Nikolai_The_Crazed I stopped watching when they introduced the play offs and new points system where they race for a dozen or so laps then stop then race another dozen or so laps then stop and repeats till the end of the race.
If they'd never went to the Chase Format, Jeff actually won 7 and possibly 8 Championships. NASCAR actually went to the Chase because Jeff was so dominant that NASCAR was losing viewers which equals money. Bill France actually had a closed door meeting with Evernham and told him they were no longer allowed to lead a race by more than 4 seconds because they were "stinking up the races and making them boring". When Jeff would get out to a 4 second lead, Ray would tell him to back it off. You can actually see the interview at "Undeniable with Joe Buck...The Jeff Gordon Interviews".
Go watch the Interviews, right here on TH-cam. They are very enlightening. If you pay attention you will find out just how Staged and controlled NASCAR really is. And I've been a Gordon fan for MANY years. I met him when he was a kid racing Quarter Midgets at Auburndale Speedway when I was running a Sportsman Car. I knew then he would be something special.
That car was so great because what he didn't mention is the lowered the floor of the car and with the crazy setup in the car it utilitized ground effects in the corners which basically creates a vacuum under the car sucking it to the ground creating huge downforce
the floor itself wasn't lowered? it was just the change to softer front springs and harder rear springs that "set" the car in the corners better, in return lowering the car when it went into the turns. That's what I've heard in every other video anyways.
@@dnnbrgr7864They had to stop publishing their race attendances because it was dropping so much for over a decade. I don’t care what the dollar amount is, the sport is dying.
The guy thinks outside the box, and instead of getting rewarded, he gets punished... and why? Because none of the other teams could keep up. Instead of promoting ingenuity, they discourage it to keep the playing field level. At least he got to keep the one win out of it.
Naz Idoura nascar sucks because they they drive in circles. You can only watch so much if that before you get bored. People are interested in IMSA and Indy car because the road courses. Very technical tracks
I don't think this was to stifle ingenuity, it was keeping them in check when the driver, crew chief, and now fabricators were driving the entire series, when just one or two of those was all they needed to win. Bill France seemed like the final person to lead NASCAR with a true vision for making races appealing to fans, and I think this was his intuition to step in and stop HMS from just lapping the competition and driving away fans. Hendrick had the ingenuity to push R&D from the early 90's, when maybe the only other team to start doing that was Alan Kulwicki's, because the owner-driver had an engineering background. I think this car was unfairly punished, but definitely in NASCAR's best interest to rewrite their rules. Key word in the exchange Ray recalled was "tomorrow", I think Ray downplayed it but they must have had a lot of subtle legal tweaks that were a greater sum than their parts. I think the big factor for France was how this came at a time when 24 was already bludgeoning its competition. Don't forget that the year after this they ran the most statistically dominant season in modern history.
The secret was Rex Stump. He went to Hendrick Racing after he worked for GM doing development work for GM on the C4 Corvette. It wasn't anything radical but it was having an understanding of how the entire car would leverage force. But one of the most important things Stump understood was how to gather and interpret data.
I was a 5 year old kid sitting on the old concrete backstretch bleachers with dad at the Winston that night. Still have the youth sized T-Rex t shirt, was and forever will be a Gordon fan..
NASCAR needs to allow teams to do stuff like this, if there is a gray spot in the rules let the teams find it, this could allow some genius engineering in a smaller team to fight with the big boys
There were others throughout the history of the sport. Look what they did to the Chrysler Hemi's AND the winged cars themselves. ( The Plymouth "Super Bird" and the "Dodge Daytona". ) Totally out-lawed them. ( and I'm not even a Mopar guy........but the truth is the truth )......They say that even to this day, those tall wings did more to keep the cars planted and stay in control at high speed than any other design. With the winged cars, they could set the cars up "loose" on purpose ( a loose car WILL run faster, but it's on the verge of spinning out )......and as soon as the rear of the car would just about "come around" ( start to slide out of control ), that wing ( that wing was also totally adjustable by the way ) would catch the air and literally PUSH the rear of the car back where it was suppose to be. They say it was practically impossible to spin out of control with that tall wing alone. ( with decent tires, suspension and skilled driver of course ).........
@@howabouthetruth2157 And don't forgot that *DAMN OVERPOWERED* Ford Thunderbird of Bill Elliot. He was too fast, to the point of lapping EVERYBODY 2 LAPS AT TALLADEGA *UNDER GREEN* . Reason?, his crew chief and mechanic chief just made "a few tweaks" to increase the power of the car to nearly-950 HP, just an absurd amount of power for a cup car (back in that days, cup cars we're about 800 hp), back in those days, and even for today standards.
@@HirokaAkita You think "it was all about Elliot's engine"? You're so far off, it ain't even funny. Bill Elliot's team hit on something that had only been used by Harry Gant's team some time before, back when Gant had his incredible dominant streak. No other teams knew about it. Elliot's team showed the inspectors what exactly they were doing to the car, to make it so much faster, or should I say: handle so much better on the super speedways, and the inspectors deemed it legal. But Elliot's team and nascar officials were under no obligation to share their secret........it would be up to all the other teams to figure it out for themselves. Toward the end of Elliot's dominant season, they finally shared their little secret with some of the other Ford teams, and they too, began running so much faster than everyone else. But during the off-season, someone on one of the other Ford teams leaked the secret, and by the beginning of the very next season, EVERY car had "the secret".......and you'll notice it put an end to Elliot's dominance. So what was this mysterious secret that the Elliot and other Fords had, that had only been used for a short while by Harry Gant some years before? Answer: A CAMBERED REAR END.
Stumbled on the perfect set up. It was almost there at first but then the minor changes to the set up became a major change. The car responds to the input on a light scale. Tight front slightly loose rear, with drive coming off.
They changed the rules in 97' because this car was deemed illegal. Jeff proceeded in 98' to win 13 races that season with legal racecars. Pretty sure it was more the driver than the car.
They decided to ban it, just because: NASCAR Cup cars can't go over 210 mph without troubles, or over 195 mph in 1.5 - 2.0 mile tracks, they are just TOO HEAVY for that
It amazes me when a team learns something new setup or chassis wise that the drivers go out and make it obvious theres a big advantage. I would've done just enough to stay out front.
I was actually working at another manufactures racing development team. And there were spy photos taken at an offsite sandblasting firm, of the bare chassis. The chassis itself appeared to be very stiff torsionally in the center section. And had a new respect for Rex stop after seeing those photos
NASCAR had been killing the better running engines & cars for decades. They totally out-lawed the Chrysler Hemi engines long before this incident. The reason NASCAR is all but dead now, is because they allowed the biggest greedy sponsors to literally take control over the way the whole sport was ran. They literally shit on all the long-time hardcore fans in order to try & attract every candy ass liberal who NEVER watched or even liked racing to begin with. Stupid, complicated rules that NOBODY understands, getting rid of HISTORICAL tracks such as Martinsville that offered exciting door handle to door handle racing, and replaced them with cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks in areas not even known for stock car racing fan history, where the new tracks are boring as hell because nobody can run side by side on them. They even brought their liberal politics and shoved it down the throats of the fans and the teams. They tried to turn the perfect, most popular motor sport in history, into "the NFL on wheels". 500 mile races now broken down into "segments" or "heats" ( or whatever the hell they call it ). Grossly over-priced tickets to the races.......they even stripped the races from TV viewers by trying to force viewers into spending more money on "premium cable channels" that NOBODY wants to pay for. I can go on and on about the crazy, despicable shit they've done to destroy our beloved motor sport.
@@KurthardtJr and this is why you fail at life because that's the whole point. when you start making stupid ass rules like this you start degrading the sport you degrade the sport it starts to die that's exactly what happened and this is indicative of that! When you discourage Innovation within the rules you're clearly not understanding what the whole purpose of the sport is!
If the car wasn’t legal NASCAR would’ve taken the win so people can go on with the BS! It’s not who’s driving the cars now and then. It’s who’s setting the cars up! If Ray and Gordon would’ve stayed together there wouldn’t be a record left! Gordon is a very great driver. He didn’t need the fastest car to win! But when he had the fastest car it wasn’t even close. These two where broken up for a reason....(NASCAR) To only let Chad and Johnson drive the sport into the dirt.
RC RACER 88 so how many races did Earnhardt won since 1994 once Gordon got started? Nascar changed a lot rules so Jeff wouldn't dominate as much, including the point system and playoff races
This sort of similar to a decade or two earlier. Max engine size was limited to 358(?). Someone, I 'think' it was Rusty Wallace Penske that once used a slightly smaller CID engine. Turned out much faster. So then a rule was implemented max size and min size...both the same. At the time what Ray did may have been deemed a cost/safety issue? NASCAR didn't want a few cars lapping the field every 25 laps...don't know.
They weren't really unstoppable. They were the benefactors of nascars dumbass points system. They would have 4 championships under the original points system and Gordon would have 7.
I miss the old days .. watching with my grandpa.. Atlanta .. there in person when they added those spoilers on there .. shot right through into the air .. the rules versus etc right? I’m glad they’ve brought dirt and others back to help the sport live. These new drivers push it too. It’s becoming nascar again
Ray said "They're are many drivers that could take a 5th place car and finish 5th but Jeff Gordon could take a 5th place car and finish 1st".......what more do you need to say?
There's probably aspects of that car that hms still uses and keeps secret.....not so much now, but I bet Jimmie doesn't win 5 in a row without that car's development
@@sdcfbhjnbfxgd2114 eh doubtful. That car was outdated as fuck by the time jimmie was winning championships. They are always pushing the edge of the rules/"cheating" though. Everyone in the sport at the top is.
That was NOTHING NEW back when that happened. NASCAR had been doing that crap to teams, engines, and cars for years. Look what they did to the Chrysler Hemi AND the winged cars. ( the Plymouth Super Bird and the Dodge Daytona ) TOTALLY out-lawed them........and this was STILL back when the cars could actually be bought from dealer lots by the public. By the time of Jeff Gordon's era.......those cars were NOTHING like what is found on a dealer's lot. You could literally walk into a dealer's lot and buy a brand new "Dodge Daytona" or "Plymouth Superbird" with the tall wing AND a Hemi engine........right off the show room floor. Of course they lacked the sheer horse power and racing suspension & roll cage........but still. I thought the winged cars look like shit, but today, they are worth close to a million dollars in good condition........the STREET CAR versions. They didn't make a whole bunch of them. And smart people bought them up, both new and used, back when a used one didn't cost much more than any other used car. Can you imagine being almost a millionaire due to buying a single USED car and taking good care of it over the years?
@@howabouthetruth2157 If you think the stock Daytona and Superbird shared anything in common with the race car other than maybe some body panels you are seriously mistaken. By the mid to late 60s nearly all stock cars were tube chassis cars with stock appearing body panels around them. They share more in common with modern stock cars than their street car counterparts at that time. Yes they looked stock but they were far from it.
@@LilSki3 I NEVER said "the whole car was factory stock" pertaining to the Dodge Daytona & Plymouth Superbird. And when I said "roll cage and......." I did forget to mention a tubular racing chassis. But the BODIES on those cars that WERE used in nascar racing WERE bodies ordered straight from Chrysler. Sure, they were tweaked here & there to fit the racing chassis, but the majority of these winged cars WERE factory stock bodies. Go look it up for yourself, and don't go implying I don't know what I'm talking about. And yes, they WERE the same body that you could buy from a dealer as a street car, aside from some tweaking to fit the modified chassis. After all, it was CHRYSLER.....NOT the racing teams........that did the aero testing to produce the winged cars to begin with. The Mopar teams of nascar played NO role in producing those winged bodies. The Mopar teams racing merely began their own testing which was a very short amount of time before the season began that year because Chrysler released them at the last minute, so to speak. That's why they were MUCH closer to what you could buy from a dealer's showroom floor. Look it up man. ALL teams in nascar were still getting STOCK BODIES from the auto manufacturers all the way up until 1980. The entire field from 1967 to 1980 were known as "the generation 2 cars" with STOCK BODIES on modified chassis. I do know what I'm talking about.
From what I've been told over the years (and it could be complete BS btw) they really focused on the underside of the car. The flatter you could make the overall surface of the underside of the car, the better for aero. I've been told the radiator pan work, rear end and oil pan were all mounted/fabricated to be more efficient through the air than had ever been tried. I'm sure there's more tricks in that car but those are the ones that I've heard through 3rd,4th and 5th hand accounts...
@@FdtTmOJHKPXQFMMkhIE Well the good crew chiefs knew how to use the 'slight of hand' very well. some would purposely rig up something illegal for officials to find more obviously, so they get that "Aha!" moment of finding the decoy, but overlook the real secrets the team wanted in the car... Chad Knaus famously got busted one yr at a plate race with illegal C-pillars on the car and they had t rip the back half of the roof off and re-do it. He got caught. But he learned to try that stuff from Ray. lol.
@@FdtTmOJHKPXQFMMkhIE But springs and sway bars is how you lower and raise the ride height of the car on the track. The underside creates more ground effect.
I thought I remembered hearing that among other things, the chassis was super stiff in places it hadn’t been before, such as the engine compartment. So much so that the engine was much harder to work on due to the frame tubing being in the way.
The first time I saw the Dupont car behind him, I'd never seen a nascar look so planted and mean looking before that. and it meant business when it rolled out and went qualifying for the first time
Not a mere mention of the entire floor pan of the car being an inch higher than what was standardized at the time...thus giving the body added downforce... I’m not saying what they had come up with was illegal or violated the NASCAR rule book, but it was different than everyone else’s car...
NASCAR is simply a spec. class form of racing just like IROC. Identical cars for everyone and what's worse, cars that have no connection to any actual manufactured car being sold to the public.
We need specifics. I sense it was aero and ground effects, but what was the norm and what was the difference? This deserves an in depth study for the geeks and freaks.
From the tidbits I read, they raised the floor pan of the car, which basically created a ground effect stock car. It created a tunnel of air that kept the car sucked down to the track, meaning any little adjustment Jeff made, the car went right there and stayed there.
@@zlinedavid I think the setup had a lot more to do with it instead of (or in conjunction with) any relocation of the sheet metal of the floor pan. Softer front springs and hard rear springs would cause a bit of an oversteer ("loose") balance normally, but the way they did it caused the front of the car to squat more at speed (with the force of the airflow at high speed) than the rear, and the angled "rake" of the floor pan acted in a similar manner to a mild diffuser, creating more downforce under the car.
@@jsquared1013 It’s probably a combination of all of the above. Softer front springs would create a wedge effect, which would only be enhanced by the air tunnels forming under the car.
GEEKS NEED MORE DETAILS! WHAT THE WHY? PHYSICS... HUH? Please! If there's a description regarding what went into making it so fast published, please share. Thanks.
@@RT22-pb2pp And that answers all your questions? Cuz I'm just getting started. I know there's allusions and hints, but this fable is worthy of an in-depth diatribe. As I said elsewhere, this story is worthy of a book and a movie. Like Darrell's magic bumper and the perfectly timed exploding engine, this dirty little ditty has gained legendary status. p.s. Somebody tell Ron Howard to do a feature length film on Curtis Turner and the early days of NASCAR. After leading a larger than life on-the-edge existence, CT flying into the mountain is a perfect ending to a great bio-pic. Everything before that is up for discussion (Except the liquor landing. That alone will drive all the trailers and previews...) Sorry to get off track, but seriously, a Curtis Turner focused Early Nascar movie is a no-brainer...(did I mention the Teamsters and the Union bid? Google It!)...
The difference I see between Jeff Gordon and Jimmy Johnson, is that Jeff was so dominant that the rules had to be changed specifically to make him less dominant.
"If it wasn't Jeff Gordon driving that car it might still be legal." Lol, maybe history would have been better if Mark Martin were driving, and then fan backlash might have saved it.
Why don't they just let the mechanics and car designers go wild? It'd just keep pushing innovation, every sport changes whether for bad or good. It's usually hard to figure that out until some time passes.
Because then one team would dominate and that would make for bad TV. Bad TV means lower ratings and lower ratings mean less advertising money, which is what ultimately matters to NASCAR.
He's saying that this car was built to fully take advantage of the rules as they were at the time, so the were eking out every available advantage that they could get. Also at that time in NASCAR there weren't a lot of engineers working on the car to get the cars perfect, so any engineering advantage you could get was massive
What I'll never understand is that if NASCAR truly just wants teams to stop modifying their cars then just make the rule say: "your car has to match this example car bolt for bolt."
Seems to be a common denominator in paved Motorsports. It has to be insurance driven. If I were guessing tire speed and lateral movement has something to do with it. If these cars approach a threshold the tire manufacturer has set, a few phone calls are made and the rule makers and bean counters get together and start costing teams money.
What I don't understand is that if the car was written to the rulebook, and presumably the rulebook didn't change after Bill, Jr. looked at the car, why would Rick roll over for NASCAR? If the car had been illegal, Hendrick would never have asked for a special favor to run it, so why does he grant NASCAR a special favor to pull a very expensive, legal racecar?
Because he had 2 choices - pull it or not race in NASCAR again. There was always one major rule in Big Bill's era - don't stink up the show. It was one thing to lap the field because of reliability, long run speed, or strategy. But don't go out and run a second faster than the field. Since that's what they did Big Bill would have had no issue with telling Hendrick to take a hike.
Remember when Chad was told not to put another set of rear shocks on the car after the race at Sears Point? Nothing illegal at all with them but don't use another set like them again.
They only reason Jeff won the ‘97 Winston is due to NASCAR cutting a whole inch of the Ford spoilers before the race, Jarrett was easily the class of the field but the Ford couldn’t clearly stick to the bottoms of the track like the chevys could
Imagine if f1 did that every time Lewis Hamilton got a grand slam. This seriously sounds like some angry admin on a Minecraft server banning somebody because they don't play the way they want them to.
Why would you retire this car? I would have agreed with Mr France to smooth things over, then just reskin or paint the car different. Or park the car and build Rex #2 from your build up blueprints and set up notes. I feel certain those notes and blue prints were not shredded and burned in the trash barrel. I would make the inspectors try to discover it.
Here's my idea for a cool race car: take the legendary 1994 Mercedes ilmor pushrod winning indycar engine and swap it into the legendary t-rex nascar race car. That would be legendary fer sure
If Ray never left, they would have set records no one would touch..
coulda, woulda, shoulda, now JJ and Chad rewrote the book.
@@johnnystek6900 if it wasnt for the chase, gordon would have 8 championships and jimmy would be a side note
Bradley Slusser ray evernham is selfish. We know that
@blueridgeboy you are almost correct ray didnt teach chad Chad went to and left hms to crew chief in 2001 and then came back when gordon called and Gordon owes the whole 48 team and the reason the 48 team worked good was gordon 01 and 02 cars that won races just with a different paint scheme that's why they started with a championship car when they started with 2 hungry guys that need to prove themselves
Ray evernham is the best crew chief ever in my opinion.
So nascar punishes teams for following the rules and making cars better? Hmm
Michael Gilbert Yep
They want close racing, doesn’t matter how it’s done
Manual Clutch and now it’s single file racing with hardly any tough battles, leaders pulling away from the main pack. Its boring now. I haven’t watched a race sense 2008. I’ll stick to my local tracks where racing is still fun to watch
That’s why NASCAR ain’t doing too good. They do this every time something new comes out that whips everyone’s ass. They did it with the superbird and the charger Daytona, and they keep doing it to this day. It’s sad because NASCAR could’ve gone it a really cool direction if they allowed cars like these to do their thing.
@@Nikolai_The_Crazed I stopped watching when they introduced the play offs and new points system where they race for a dozen or so laps then stop then race another dozen or so laps then stop and repeats till the end of the race.
Best damn crew chief driver combination
The NASCAR guy 24 24 dude if they would of stayed together there is no telling how many championships they would of won
The NASCAR guy 24 24 id say at the least 8 of em at the least
If they'd never went to the Chase Format, Jeff actually won 7 and possibly 8 Championships. NASCAR actually went to the Chase because Jeff was so dominant that NASCAR was losing viewers which equals money. Bill France actually had a closed door meeting with Evernham and told him they were no longer allowed to lead a race by more than 4 seconds because they were "stinking up the races and making them boring". When Jeff would get out to a 4 second lead, Ray would tell him to back it off. You can actually see the interview at "Undeniable with Joe Buck...The Jeff Gordon Interviews".
Ric H seriously im a huge jeff fan sen 3/4 of his wins an never new that
Go watch the Interviews, right here on TH-cam. They are very enlightening. If you pay attention you will find out just how Staged and controlled NASCAR really is. And I've been a Gordon fan for MANY years. I met him when he was a kid racing Quarter Midgets at Auburndale Speedway when I was running a Sportsman Car. I knew then he would be something special.
That car was so great because what he didn't mention is the lowered the floor of the car and with the crazy setup in the car it utilitized ground effects in the corners which basically creates a vacuum under the car sucking it to the ground creating huge downforce
the floor itself wasn't lowered? it was just the change to softer front springs and harder rear springs that "set" the car in the corners better, in return lowering the car when it went into the turns. That's what I've heard in every other video anyways.
Good job NASCAR hows that attitude working out for you in 2019
They’re laughing all the way to the bank. The France family and NASCAR is worth about $40 BILLION dollars.
@@dnnbrgr7864They had to stop publishing their race attendances because it was dropping so much for over a decade. I don’t care what the dollar amount is, the sport is dying.
Only Ray Evernham could make a car so great.
Also I’m getting dinosaur videos in my recommended now lol
same
Same!
Yup
unsolve crap.... I should have thought of that.
Really, how do you think Jimmie Johnson got a lot of his wins?
This was part of the golden era of NASCAR. Man I wish the sport still had this type of flair.
I just wish that William Byron would do this throwback for a tribute to Jurassic Park 25th Anniversary again it would be cool.
Like if you agree.
Just Monika I think nascar would lose its mind if they did that😂
No way, need to see a 24 Doki Doki Literature Club paint scheme
Do a Jurassic World one.
oh hi Monika, didn't know you were a Nascar fan. lol
Well the Jurassic world the ride is coming to universal studios Hollywood this spring or summer
The guy thinks outside the box, and instead of getting rewarded, he gets punished... and why? Because none of the other teams could keep up. Instead of promoting ingenuity, they discourage it to keep the playing field level. At least he got to keep the one win out of it.
Not like ut mattered it was a non points race
That’s why nascar sucks now
@@musiccitymannn2781 Exactly. Its mentality sucks. Fanbase too. They hate winners and innovators.
Naz Idoura nascar sucks because they they drive in circles. You can only watch so much if that before you get bored. People are interested in IMSA and Indy car because the road courses. Very technical tracks
I don't think this was to stifle ingenuity, it was keeping them in check when the driver, crew chief, and now fabricators were driving the entire series, when just one or two of those was all they needed to win. Bill France seemed like the final person to lead NASCAR with a true vision for making races appealing to fans, and I think this was his intuition to step in and stop HMS from just lapping the competition and driving away fans.
Hendrick had the ingenuity to push R&D from the early 90's, when maybe the only other team to start doing that was Alan Kulwicki's, because the owner-driver had an engineering background. I think this car was unfairly punished, but definitely in NASCAR's best interest to rewrite their rules. Key word in the exchange Ray recalled was "tomorrow", I think Ray downplayed it but they must have had a lot of subtle legal tweaks that were a greater sum than their parts. I think the big factor for France was how this came at a time when 24 was already bludgeoning its competition. Don't forget that the year after this they ran the most statistically dominant season in modern history.
The secret was Rex Stump. He went to Hendrick Racing after he worked for GM doing development work for GM on the C4 Corvette. It wasn't anything radical but it was having an understanding of how the entire car would leverage force. But one of the most important things Stump understood was how to gather and interpret data.
I was a 5 year old kid sitting on the old concrete backstretch bleachers with dad at the Winston that night. Still have the youth sized T-Rex t shirt, was and forever will be a Gordon fan..
NASCAR needs to allow teams to do stuff like this, if there is a gray spot in the rules let the teams find it, this could allow some genius engineering in a smaller team to fight with the big boys
Greatest stock car of all time!
There were others throughout the history of the sport. Look what they did to the Chrysler Hemi's AND the winged cars themselves. ( The Plymouth "Super Bird" and the "Dodge Daytona". ) Totally out-lawed them. ( and I'm not even a Mopar guy........but the truth is the truth )......They say that even to this day, those tall wings did more to keep the cars planted and stay in control at high speed than any other design. With the winged cars, they could set the cars up "loose" on purpose ( a loose car WILL run faster, but it's on the verge of spinning out )......and as soon as the rear of the car would just about "come around" ( start to slide out of control ), that wing ( that wing was also totally adjustable by the way ) would catch the air and literally PUSH the rear of the car back where it was suppose to be. They say it was practically impossible to spin out of control with that tall wing alone. ( with decent tires, suspension and skilled driver of course ).........
@@howabouthetruth2157 And don't forgot that *DAMN OVERPOWERED* Ford Thunderbird of Bill Elliot.
He was too fast, to the point of lapping EVERYBODY 2 LAPS AT TALLADEGA *UNDER GREEN* . Reason?, his crew chief and mechanic chief just made "a few tweaks" to increase the power of the car to nearly-950 HP, just an absurd amount of power for a cup car (back in that days, cup cars we're about 800 hp), back in those days, and even for today standards.
@@HirokaAkita Wasn't just the engine, although Erine Elliott is a god in Engine performance. They worked on Aero alot as well.
@@howabouthetruth2157 not true the fords dominated those superbirds and Plymouth winged cars. Look it up
@@HirokaAkita You think "it was all about Elliot's engine"? You're so far off, it ain't even funny. Bill Elliot's team hit on something that had only been used by Harry Gant's team some time before, back when Gant had his incredible dominant streak. No other teams knew about it. Elliot's team showed the inspectors what exactly they were doing to the car, to make it so much faster, or should I say: handle so much better on the super speedways, and the inspectors deemed it legal. But Elliot's team and nascar officials were under no obligation to share their secret........it would be up to all the other teams to figure it out for themselves. Toward the end of Elliot's dominant season, they finally shared their little secret with some of the other Ford teams, and they too, began running so much faster than everyone else. But during the off-season, someone on one of the other Ford teams leaked the secret, and by the beginning of the very next season, EVERY car had "the secret".......and you'll notice it put an end to Elliot's dominance. So what was this mysterious secret that the Elliot and other Fords had, that had only been used for a short while by Harry Gant some years before? Answer: A CAMBERED REAR END.
Hes putting down the legend of those car I remember when it ran and how excited I was watching it it's sad they don't have cars like this anymore.
Wow this is my first time hearing about the t rex car it looks awsome jeff gorden did a good job racing in it and ray did a good job
bleacherreport.com/articles/86701-jeff-gordon-flashback-t-rex-set-nascar-on-its-ear-with-1997-winston-win
The Yellow Banana of the 1990s. Exploit the rulebook to the point of not breaking the rules but piss off NASCAR mightily.
Ray Evernham ,Erin Crocker Jeremy Mayfield ,19 car , Brian France ...ahhhhhh
The good ole days of Nascar !
Stumbled on the perfect set up. It was almost there at first but then the minor changes to the set up became a major change. The car responds to the input on a light scale. Tight front slightly loose rear, with drive coming off.
Damn nascar rules.
Tyler Kinsell the stupid part is that they followed the rules.
Alternate ending to Cars 3: Jackson Storm gets banned by Bill France
Great story, thank you for sharing it with us.
They changed the rules in 97' because this car was deemed illegal. Jeff proceeded in 98' to win 13 races that season with legal racecars.
Pretty sure it was more the driver than the car.
Right and the guy said as much, but 7 or 8 tenths faster is an eternity as I'm sure you know.
Ban it cause it's too fast. Perfect example of why NASCAR sucks.
They decided to ban it, just because:
NASCAR Cup cars can't go over 210 mph without troubles, or over 195 mph in 1.5 - 2.0 mile tracks, they are just TOO HEAVY for that
F1 did the same thing with the fan car.
the car can or used to be able to the tires never could they overheat
It amazes me when a team learns something new setup or chassis wise that the drivers go out and make it obvious theres a big advantage. I would've done just enough to stay out front.
I was actually working at another manufactures racing development team. And there were spy photos taken at an offsite sandblasting firm, of the bare chassis.
The chassis itself appeared to be very stiff torsionally in the center section. And had a new respect for Rex stop after seeing those photos
..........and you wonder why NASCAR is losing fans.
Fred Ivory nascar was on the verge of peak popularity at this time...try again.
yea but france doing things like this help put it to where it is today bcus they didnt handle the boom of popularity w their racing/safety at all
NASCAR had been killing the better running engines & cars for decades. They totally out-lawed the Chrysler Hemi engines long before this incident. The reason NASCAR is all but dead now, is because they allowed the biggest greedy sponsors to literally take control over the way the whole sport was ran. They literally shit on all the long-time hardcore fans in order to try & attract every candy ass liberal who NEVER watched or even liked racing to begin with. Stupid, complicated rules that NOBODY understands, getting rid of HISTORICAL tracks such as Martinsville that offered exciting door handle to door handle racing, and replaced them with cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks in areas not even known for stock car racing fan history, where the new tracks are boring as hell because nobody can run side by side on them. They even brought their liberal politics and shoved it down the throats of the fans and the teams. They tried to turn the perfect, most popular motor sport in history, into "the NFL on wheels". 500 mile races now broken down into "segments" or "heats" ( or whatever the hell they call it ). Grossly over-priced tickets to the races.......they even stripped the races from TV viewers by trying to force viewers into spending more money on "premium cable channels" that NOBODY wants to pay for. I can go on and on about the crazy, despicable shit they've done to destroy our beloved motor sport.
Martinsville? Got rid?
@@KurthardtJr and this is why you fail at life because that's the whole point. when you start making stupid ass rules like this you start degrading the sport you degrade the sport it starts to die that's exactly what happened and this is indicative of that! When you discourage Innovation within the rules you're clearly not understanding what the whole purpose of the sport is!
That car Jeff Gordon and Ray We're still the best I've ever seen I seen that race That car was awesome
If the car wasn’t legal NASCAR would’ve taken the win so people can go on with the BS! It’s not who’s driving the cars now and then. It’s who’s setting the cars up! If Ray and Gordon would’ve stayed together there wouldn’t be a record left! Gordon is a very great driver. He didn’t need the fastest car to win! But when he had the fastest car it wasn’t even close. These two where broken up for a reason....(NASCAR) To only let Chad and Johnson drive the sport into the dirt.
Jeff was good but Dale Earnhardt is NASCAR's greatest driver ever
RC RACER 88 so how many races did Earnhardt won since 1994 once Gordon got started? Nascar changed a lot rules so Jeff wouldn't dominate as much, including the point system and playoff races
It was the Winston! Non points race
Greatest Nascar team of all time.
This sort of similar to a decade or two earlier.
Max engine size was limited to 358(?).
Someone, I 'think' it was Rusty Wallace Penske that once used a slightly smaller CID engine.
Turned out much faster.
So then a rule was implemented max size and min size...both the same.
At the time what Ray did may have been deemed a cost/safety issue?
NASCAR didn't want a few cars lapping the field every 25 laps...don't know.
Gordon and Evernham accomplished half as much as Jimmie and Chad in just that 4 span compared to Jimmie and Chad’s 15+, they were unstoppable
They weren't really unstoppable. They were the benefactors of nascars dumbass points system. They would have 4 championships under the original points system and Gordon would have 7.
I miss the old days .. watching with my grandpa.. Atlanta .. there in person when they added those spoilers on there .. shot right through into the air .. the rules versus etc right? I’m glad they’ve brought dirt and others back to help the sport live. These new drivers push it too. It’s becoming nascar again
Ray said "They're are many drivers that could take a 5th place car and finish 5th but Jeff Gordon could take a 5th place car and finish 1st".......what more do you need to say?
Great video big Jeff Gordon fan
Gonna need another car just like it to Hendrick outta this hole
I think it happened at the roval
well.. look at the #5 car now 😂😂😂
This aged poorly lol. Btw the likes number....nice
He never specifically mentioned what about it was "illegal"...
At the time they raced the car it was legal ...once nascar saw what HMS did to build it they outlawed it because of competition
There's probably aspects of that car that hms still uses and keeps secret.....not so much now, but I bet Jimmie doesn't win 5 in a row without that car's development
It was legal but it scared nascar. Lol. That’s why it was banned
@@sdcfbhjnbfxgd2114 eh doubtful. That car was outdated as fuck by the time jimmie was winning championships. They are always pushing the edge of the rules/"cheating" though. Everyone in the sport at the top is.
@@fatpatlives1998 But what rule did they change to make it illegal?
Banned because of a different setup and dominated
That was NOTHING NEW back when that happened. NASCAR had been doing that crap to teams, engines, and cars for years. Look what they did to the Chrysler Hemi AND the winged cars. ( the Plymouth Super Bird and the Dodge Daytona ) TOTALLY out-lawed them........and this was STILL back when the cars could actually be bought from dealer lots by the public. By the time of Jeff Gordon's era.......those cars were NOTHING like what is found on a dealer's lot. You could literally walk into a dealer's lot and buy a brand new "Dodge Daytona" or "Plymouth Superbird" with the tall wing AND a Hemi engine........right off the show room floor. Of course they lacked the sheer horse power and racing suspension & roll cage........but still. I thought the winged cars look like shit, but today, they are worth close to a million dollars in good condition........the STREET CAR versions. They didn't make a whole bunch of them. And smart people bought them up, both new and used, back when a used one didn't cost much more than any other used car. Can you imagine being almost a millionaire due to buying a single USED car and taking good care of it over the years?
@@howabouthetruth2157 If you think the stock Daytona and Superbird shared anything in common with the race car other than maybe some body panels you are seriously mistaken. By the mid to late 60s nearly all stock cars were tube chassis cars with stock appearing body panels around them. They share more in common with modern stock cars than their street car counterparts at that time. Yes they looked stock but they were far from it.
@@LilSki3 I NEVER said "the whole car was factory stock" pertaining to the Dodge Daytona & Plymouth Superbird. And when I said "roll cage and......." I did forget to mention a tubular racing chassis. But the BODIES on those cars that WERE used in nascar racing WERE bodies ordered straight from Chrysler. Sure, they were tweaked here & there to fit the racing chassis, but the majority of these winged cars WERE factory stock bodies. Go look it up for yourself, and don't go implying I don't know what I'm talking about. And yes, they WERE the same body that you could buy from a dealer as a street car, aside from some tweaking to fit the modified chassis. After all, it was CHRYSLER.....NOT the racing teams........that did the aero testing to produce the winged cars to begin with. The Mopar teams of nascar played NO role in producing those winged bodies. The Mopar teams racing merely began their own testing which was a very short amount of time before the season began that year because Chrysler released them at the last minute, so to speak. That's why they were MUCH closer to what you could buy from a dealer's showroom floor. Look it up man. ALL teams in nascar were still getting STOCK BODIES from the auto manufacturers all the way up until 1980. The entire field from 1967 to 1980 were known as "the generation 2 cars" with STOCK BODIES on modified chassis. I do know what I'm talking about.
From what I've been told over the years (and it could be complete BS btw) they really focused on the underside of the car. The flatter you could make the overall surface of the underside of the car, the better for aero. I've been told the radiator pan work, rear end and oil pan were all mounted/fabricated to be more efficient through the air than had ever been tried. I'm sure there's more tricks in that car but those are the ones that I've heard through 3rd,4th and 5th hand accounts...
Ray talking about springs and sway bars is probably a red herring
@@FdtTmOJHKPXQFMMkhIE Well the good crew chiefs knew how to use the 'slight of hand' very well. some would purposely rig up something illegal for officials to find more obviously, so they get that "Aha!" moment of finding the decoy, but overlook the real secrets the team wanted in the car... Chad Knaus famously got busted one yr at a plate race with illegal C-pillars on the car and they had t rip the back half of the roof off and re-do it. He got caught. But he learned to try that stuff from Ray. lol.
Still today the underside of these cars is critical to aero. The idea is to create ground effects without hydraulics.
@@FdtTmOJHKPXQFMMkhIE But springs and sway bars is how you lower and raise the ride height of the car on the track. The underside creates more ground effect.
you know you made a quick car when nascar themselves tell you never bring it back to a race track again.
I thought I remembered hearing that among other things, the chassis was super stiff in places it hadn’t been before, such as the engine compartment. So much so that the engine was much harder to work on due to the frame tubing being in the way.
Jeff needs to run arca with ray
la la go fast car they don't run those cars
I know, they need to do it with arca cars
Arca is NASCAR now... so no thanks
lol arca is a joke
Guys like ray on come around in a generation, first it was Smokey, then ray, who will be next?
The first time I saw the Dupont car behind him, I'd never seen a nascar look so planted and mean looking before that. and it meant business when it rolled out and went qualifying for the first time
Not a mere mention of the entire floor pan of the car being an inch higher than what was standardized at the time...thus giving the body added downforce...
I’m not saying what they had come up with was illegal or violated the NASCAR rule book, but it was different than everyone else’s car...
It ran one race dominated and was banned. The story of everything smokey yunick did as a mechanic lol
Miss those days of nascar so bad.
It wasn't the car it was the driver....Jeff Gordon!!!💜
NASCAR should have went this way maybe more people would be watching
Hendrick you need to do a throwback to this car next year
NASCAR is simply a spec. class form of racing just like IROC. Identical cars for everyone and what's worse, cars that have no connection to any actual manufactured car being sold to the public.
Fun fact: T-Rex only led the last 8 laps of the Winston.
We need specifics. I sense it was aero and ground effects, but what was the norm and what was the difference? This deserves an in depth study for the geeks and freaks.
From the tidbits I read, they raised the floor pan of the car, which basically created a ground effect stock car. It created a tunnel of air that kept the car sucked down to the track, meaning any little adjustment Jeff made, the car went right there and stayed there.
@@zlinedavid I think the setup had a lot more to do with it instead of (or in conjunction with) any relocation of the sheet metal of the floor pan. Softer front springs and hard rear springs would cause a bit of an oversteer ("loose") balance normally, but the way they did it caused the front of the car to squat more at speed (with the force of the airflow at high speed) than the rear, and the angled "rake" of the floor pan acted in a similar manner to a mild diffuser, creating more downforce under the car.
@@jsquared1013 It’s probably a combination of all of the above. Softer front springs would create a wedge effect, which would only be enhanced by the air tunnels forming under the car.
Ray Evernham is bringing back IROC!
Love #24 Jeff Gordon one of the greatest Race Car Driver. Also #8
In all these stories there is not one mention of one aspect that was 'gray' and why.
Rules , rules....
Penalty, penalty...
Where is all the fans ???
Nascar says " it must be the economy"
GEEKS NEED MORE DETAILS! WHAT THE WHY? PHYSICS... HUH? Please! If there's a description regarding what went into making it so fast published, please share. Thanks.
He told you they did what no one did before changed spring weights front to rear and sway bars, after this springs are regulated
@@RT22-pb2pp And that answers all your questions? Cuz I'm just getting started. I know there's allusions and hints, but this fable is worthy of an in-depth diatribe. As I said elsewhere, this story is worthy of a book and a movie. Like Darrell's magic bumper and the perfectly timed exploding engine, this dirty little ditty has gained legendary status.
p.s. Somebody tell Ron Howard to do a feature length film on Curtis Turner and the early days of NASCAR. After leading a larger than life on-the-edge existence, CT flying into the mountain is a perfect ending to a great bio-pic. Everything before that is up for discussion (Except the liquor landing. That alone will drive all the trailers and previews...) Sorry to get off track, but seriously, a Curtis Turner focused Early Nascar movie is a no-brainer...(did I mention the Teamsters and the Union bid? Google It!)...
The difference I see between Jeff Gordon and Jimmy Johnson, is that Jeff was so dominant that the rules had to be changed specifically to make him less dominant.
"If it wasn't Jeff Gordon driving that car it might still be legal."
Lol, maybe history would have been better if Mark Martin were driving, and then fan backlash might have saved it.
Why don't they just let the mechanics and car designers go wild? It'd just keep pushing innovation, every sport changes whether for bad or good. It's usually hard to figure that out until some time passes.
Because then one team would dominate and that would make for bad TV. Bad TV means lower ratings and lower ratings mean less advertising money, which is what ultimately matters to NASCAR.
@zlinedavid I understand that, I wasn't thinking it's a realistic possibility that they would do. That would just be my own ideal ruleset.
Hey Ray, do you remember Erin Crocker?
Yes he does intimitly
so is he says some cars aren't well built race cars?
He's saying that this car was built to fully take advantage of the rules as they were at the time, so the were eking out every available advantage that they could get. Also at that time in NASCAR there weren't a lot of engineers working on the car to get the cars perfect, so any engineering advantage you could get was massive
Thank you Bill Farce.
I love the car
Wish t-rex was out running as a vintage road course car or a demonstration lap car INSTEAD of resting and making dust
They were lucky NASCAR didn't BAN Jeff Gordon altogether.
I love it
So many old Gordon cars
Why Jeff Gordon didn't continue drive Jurssaic Park scheme in 2001 and 2015 as Jurassic World?
What race did Jeff Gordon drive this T-Rex Race Car
The Winston non points race in late 90s, 97 or 98 I believe
Hey YOU...yes .. YOU….Enjoy your day today!
What I'll never understand is that if NASCAR truly just wants teams to stop modifying their cars then just make the rule say: "your car has to match this example car bolt for bolt."
I have that toy car and I never new it!
America 9 did not know there were kinds of them I wonder what car I have
A rule for NASCAR: no rule changes until the end of the season.
Seems to be a common denominator in paved Motorsports.
It has to be insurance driven.
If I were guessing tire speed and lateral movement has something to do with it.
If these cars approach a threshold the tire manufacturer has set, a few phone calls are made and the rule makers and bean counters get together and start costing teams money.
Jeff Gordon’s Cat was T-Rex before
What I don't understand is that if the car was written to the rulebook, and presumably the rulebook didn't change after Bill, Jr. looked at the car, why would Rick roll over for NASCAR? If the car had been illegal, Hendrick would never have asked for a special favor to run it, so why does he grant NASCAR a special favor to pull a very expensive, legal racecar?
Because he had 2 choices - pull it or not race in NASCAR again. There was always one major rule in Big Bill's era - don't stink up the show. It was one thing to lap the field because of reliability, long run speed, or strategy. But don't go out and run a second faster than the field. Since that's what they did Big Bill would have had no issue with telling Hendrick to take a hike.
Remember when Chad was told not to put another set of rear shocks on the car after the race at Sears Point? Nothing illegal at all with them but don't use another set like them again.
Gotta love when motorsports punish engineers for being too good at their jobs
I got a diecast of this car recently
Put that car up against The Gibbs and Harvick's fishy cars of today and it would beat them
Gordon would've been 2000 Champion if Ray stayed for one more year
what exact rules were changed to ban this car?
Bill France always found a way to screw things up.
They banned the car because it was too fast.... and you wonder why you are losing fans
Lol....this happened in 1997...23 yrs ago....nascar hit it's peak 8 yrs AFTER this.....so this right here isn't y nascar "sucks" now
They only reason Jeff won the ‘97 Winston is due to NASCAR cutting a whole inch of the Ford spoilers before the race, Jarrett was easily the class of the field but the Ford couldn’t clearly stick to the bottoms of the track like the chevys could
Imagine if f1 did that every time Lewis Hamilton got a grand slam. This seriously sounds like some angry admin on a Minecraft server banning somebody because they don't play the way they want them to.
Cool : D
The damn car was built along side nascar officials and they still considered it illegal?
Bill elliott makes up 2 laps under green at talladega,doesn't get banned
Jeff gordon wins the all-star race after leading 9 laps,gets banned
Why would you retire this car? I would have agreed with Mr France to smooth things over, then just reskin or paint the car different. Or park the car and build Rex #2 from your build up blueprints and set up notes. I feel certain those notes and blue prints were not shredded and burned in the trash barrel. I would make the inspectors try to discover it.
Every time I hear about TREX I just wonder what would have happened if they would have waited til the 600 to bring that out.
And they wonder why people stopped watching NASCAR fair and racing don’t mix like oil and water
A level playing field helps determine who the best driver is. Otherwise, you get the Formula One problem of "who can spend the most money?"
Here's my idea for a cool race car: take the legendary 1994 Mercedes ilmor pushrod winning indycar engine and swap it into the legendary t-rex nascar race car. That would be legendary fer sure
What? So they banned it because of some suspension tweaks?
Bradley I agree
Secret Ingredient Of Winning ......Jeff Gordon Ray Evernham
It wasn't a secret
basically that car along with the charger was banned for being too fast
nascar really needs to fix this and let cars go their own cool direc
Another example of how 1/2 the rules are created from hurt fee fees.
So bill france was against moving the sport forward and advancing the build process of race cars. Great decision genius
Now after advancing the cars, we now have no racing and 3 second leads everywhere.
So the mistake was Jeff made it too obvious. He should have laid off a little to make the race look closer.