Was a sawyer for year's and my personal experience is most saws need some restriction in the exhaust system. As far as the exhaust screen I personally use it when on national forest, just for liability purposes. When I was sawing we would start falling before the sun came up and I can tell you the amount of sparks that come off the chain is significantly higher than what come from the exhaust even on a super modified saw.
Dyno testing has proven that gains are to be had with no restrictions in the exhaust. It does move the power curve though, this is where folks get confused. You might actually loose power at your normal cutting speed, but gain it elsewhere, which might or might not benefit your particular sawing methods. I been cutting timber for 25 years with ported chainsaws, I would never run a stock saw. The older stihls even came factory with dual port or even triple port mufflers like the 038mag 2 made in west germany. The factory knows that getting the exhaust out is a plus. OSHA is what caused the mufflers to become more restrictive, to meet noise requirements
Hey ignore the angry (jealous) comments regarding your video. It was well produced, clear and easy to follow. I think you gave an unbiased video based on YOUR experience. Others are free to do their own video...yeesh! There are some illogical people out there! Anyone buying a MS250 is not likely to be a forestry ranger out in the dry bush. The 250 is a great arborist saw, or yard/farm saw cutting up lengths of chord wood etc so spark hazard doesn’t really exist. By the wear on your saw, it has had a lot of use and it hasn’t blown up because of your mods so you must be doing something right. Just a thought, at the very least, people should keep that screen clean cuz it really robs power when plugged. I threw mine out. Thanks again!
You can mod this muffler without cutting it apart. Once you open up the exhaust opening, there is room to get in to open up the baffle with a drill bit. (On an angle) Then use a dremel to clean it up. Both the exhaust exit opening and baffle opening are roughly the same size now. -you can see right through it, but still has the muffler structure so you can bolt tightly. Also, you’ll need to take the limiter cap off your HI adjustment. They don’t give you enough play to adjust -you will blow your engine up at 15k+ rpm after mod. Richen up the mixture and use a tach if you’re not good with setting by ear. Target rpm is 13k rpm (give or take).
Yes thanks for this. I am did a mod on my muffler too. To open it, I ground a small amount off of one corner only, right on the outside edge, then I used an old chisel to pry the top lamination up of the three there. I pried up the foldover, then cut it in the middle with side cutters, then hold the muffler in a vice so I could heat it up with propane till nearly cherry red and used a small flat screw driver to bend up a section of the foldover at a time, moving down each side. I did 3 sides and was then able to slide/lift that top off the muffler, and reveal the inner baffle. In my case I drill a lot of large holes in it. Reassembly was easy, just slide the top back in, fold back the foldover to secure it. Yes I enjoy having more power, and I know it will take the heat away from the exhaust side cylinder much better, decreasing the chance of seizing. It uses more fuel too of course, as it runs faster and a larger amount of the induction gases (fuel air) bypass straight out the exhaust ( which means it is better at having cleaner combustion gases, and a bigger intake of air each stroke. Its not a tuned exhaust, just free flowing.
it's more for guiding - only idiots tighten screws enough to crush parts. Have you ever tried to put a long bolt through a second hole with a big, blind gap between? it's a pain in the ass - so they put those tubes, which happen to also add unnecessary structural rigidity. Derr hurr I'm so smart momma I made duh youtube comment telling da guy he was wong
@@tragikk03You guys are hilarious! I usually bolt my lips to the cylinder and let the exhaust gas blow through me and out my ass. But I realize not everyone can do that. Because they haven't taken out the baffle yet.
That’s bad ass! What do you use for gear reduction to run the bicycle? I’ve actually made a scooter powered by a MS 044 once. I had to use a jack shaft and A total of four sprockets/2 chains to reduce the gear ratio. It worked out great and still hit 28 mph.
@Arborist Life wow you're going all out I use a yd100 Chinese 2 stroke bottom end do some modification to the transfers and bolt patterns and slap a 460 cylinder on.. things do 50+
i doubt this mod would make the saw rev high enough to do any damage. since its a 2 stoke you could probably push it pretty high in the revs before any component got to its failure point.
You should’ve included in this video, that the revs must be checked with a tachometer and that a carby adjustment will be required after doing this modification, otherwise, a good modification.
I gut my muffler but use a exhaust pipe that keeps a little pressure in the can. 3/4 I D pipe on 60 cc. Runs cool and bigger carb makes more power. Not just more rpm.
Not a professional but have run saws most of my life cutting fire wood. Have had one stihl in all those years and would never own another one. The first thing I look for now in any saw is if you can take the pull rope housing off without having to dismantle the saw. The stihl I had you had to take the hand grip or whatever you call it off to take the housing off. It had rubber antivibe inserts, One of them tore while dismantling it. I am not a mechanic and could not get it back together. Shop fees with their minimums would have cost me more than what I payed for the saw. Will never own a stihl again. P.S. Best saw I ever had was a poulan I bought in 1982, Had that saw for over 20 years went through countless bars and chains The shop where I bought it told me they don't make parts for it any more so I got the stihl. Never again
If the shop time for the daw cost more the the saw to repair a pull starter and a ripped rubber grommet you bought the 170 or something similar. Those r shit saws and u bought the cheapest saw and expected top of the line performance. Also, most of my saws are t Yeats or older and I haven't broken the pull start yet, your doing something wrong and consistently are doing it if the 1st feature you look for it being able to quickly fix the pull starter. Stop trying to rip it outta the saw. You shouldn't be pulling till you hit the end of the rope.
I'm like you, I bought a new Stihl MS 250 because everybody said that Stihl was the best. The 250 was what I could afford at the time. You couldn't give me another Stihl chainsaw. I'm 74 years old now and have been using chainsaws since my early 20's and I know how to start one but by the time I can get it started I'm too tired to use it. I too had a Poulan Pro that I bought at a yard sale and it sat for about 7 years with old gas in it and it fired up within 3 pulls. The Stihl takes a minimum of 12 to 15 pulls to get it going and if it's hot it literally won't start at all until it cools down. If I could afford another saw I'd toss it in a dumpster somewhere. I do still have the Poulan and it still runs great.
@@johngersna3263 Poulan to profesjonalna piła z metalowym karterem? MS 250 to zwykła piła dla amatorów, z karterem plastikowym. Łatwo się przegrzewa w plastikowym ociepleniu - "pierzynie". Taka jest różnica. Najlepsza mała piła, ze starych modeli Stihl, to MS 200, potem już tylko MS 260. Produkują je nadal w Europie, na Ukrainie oraz w Chinach - PRC, odpowiednio jako Holzfforma G111 i G260.
@@joeloy1800 I've been using chainsaws saws for over 50 years. Maybe you could make a video showing me how to start one. To me, $300 is not a cheap saw. Maybe it is to you. Sorry that I don't meet your professional status.
when it comes to 2 stroke engines, exhaust tuning is a MAJOR factor in power and power band curve. Just opening up the muffler doesn't help because you absolutely need the reverberation to push back and boost compression or you never get that huge kick in power everyone that has ever been thrown off the back of a 2 stroke dirt bike knows.
thanks have an old style muffler on mine and i got a chinese muffler to mod and i thought it was just a cheaper way they made them... was planning to mod it thinking i would get the same split design
A few seconds? That was nearly a 50% reduction. If you're doing that for an entire weekend, you're nearly cutting your work down to 1 day. Good critical thinking skills the, short bus; as if people are going to do this to make 1 cut?
I realize this is 2 years late but i thought Id answer your question anyway. there is still some back pressure, just a lot less. and yes you can shorten the lifespan of a two stroke by doing this if you don't adjust the carburetor after. The better flow causes the saw to run lean, meaning it revs too high and doesn't get the necessary lubrication. thats why he has the tachometer to show the carb is properly adjusted.
Im just here to wonder how the heck you can start that thing with one pull and no decompression. I have a 251 and the compression jerks my shoulder loose. Had to buy an echo with decompression switch, as my shoulder cant take it any more.
If you increased the saws power to the blade from 75% to 90% how is it possible an increase of 15% allowed you to cut almost rwice as fast? Im with the guy whos calling you out on sharpening the chain between tests. Chips are definitely bigger in the last test. Just busting your balls good modification. Make sure if you do this to readjust your carburetor.
Another guy asked me something similar. If you increase power, but the RPM of the chain stays the same. How does it cut in a faster? The answer is that you can push harder. Putter More pressure on the saw/wood, making it eat more without bugging down. Also, before doing the test, I sharpened the chain, I like to take the rakers down a little bit overstock. Which is going to make it bite more wood. A lot of people think that I might have sharpened it in between runs. The truth is, absolutely not! Obviously that would completely Ruin, the entire test. I know you don't know me, but I am an honorable man. And I swear on the lives of my children. I did not sharpen the chain between comparisons. Also I did have to adjust the cooperator I forgot to mention that in the video. Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate the feedback.
I'm sure it will help the saw breath, but it also look like you may have sharpened the chain as well? The chips on the first test cuts look pretty wimpy, the second test look like the chain is much sharper. We also see the file in the second test. I'm not sure that is a fair test.
It runs better, but the risk of burning the piston increases significantly. A 2-stroke engine relies on a certain resistance to run good and not burning the piston.
I don’t think you’re taking into consideration the three louvers at the muffler exit, they provide all the Resistance needed for resonance which can be made larger or smaller for Peak performance. all the baffle does is slow exhaust gases and slightly bring down decibel levels. Obviously, the carburetor needs to be tuned for the modification as to not go lean, damaging the motor like you’re talking about. PS. I’ve been running that very saw with the “muffler mod” just over two years now nearly every day for work with no problems.
@@brianwalker1933 Well you haven't owned a four cly k car wtth a aurto tranny you rmove the exhaust the car will have no vacuum and the engine will run like shit and the tranny will not shift and thats not the only engine that will not run without exhaust
OK well a four stroke engine is a completely different animal, regarding taking the exhaust off of a car depending on where are you disconnect the exhaust will introduce different symptoms. Example removing the exhaust manifold will do multiple things like disabling the EGR valve causing multiple issues I can go into if you’d like? As well as disabling upstream and downstream O2 sensors forcing the car to go into limp mode because the computer has no idea how much fuel to deliver. Also removing exhaust=losing any back pressure how does that cause a vacuum leak? Because back pressure and vacuum are complete opposite of each other. Think of your two-stroke engine as an air pump basically that’s all it is, with efficiency in mind moving the air through the engine as effortless as possible is what it’s all about. Thanks for your input though.
@@arboristlife3494 I think there are a lot of 2 cycle dirt bike mechanics that will vehemently disagree, backpressure and tuned exhaust makes a huge difference on two cycles that depend on the flow of gas inertia and reflected pressure wave to suck the next charge in. Have a look at the crazy sh*t they do to exhausts when trying to squeeze that last 1% of performance out. No doubt Stihl did a lot of math and some real world testing to come up with the design of that muffler. You gonna beat that on a guess and a dremel? Unlikely that once you have adjusted your carb for proper mix that you have actually improved performance. Besides it's a freakin ms250, how much time will you save? If you cut for a living, sharp chain and just enough fuel to cut with a fully loaded bar, is where you will make the most money. If you burn 1/3 more fuel to save 2 seconds on a cut, have you actually saved any time? Would be interesting to see if adjust your carb to spec so you dont blow your engine, then put an exact amount of fuel in and see how long it runs till empty, put a stock muffler back on, adjust the carb to spec again and repeat the same fuel consumption test.
@@laserflexr6321 I'll agree with what you're saying, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I understand the 290- 390 muffler mods, where the baffles aren't removed, but a nice mod of only slightly higher noise but significant cooling and performance with a minor carb adjustment. But, to completely remove the baffle......
So the chain was plenty sharp and I did not sharpen it after muffler mod, I think the very first cut was so much slower because the end of the log was dried out and harder than the rest.?? What do you think? I need to do the video again using a “control log” made up of a bunch of 2x4 glued together for consistency. Like I did in my MS 194 VS MS 201t video. Please check it out let me know what you think. Thanks!
Good video, but I find my saws run as well as new when I just clean out all the carbon in the muffler. By the way, two-strokes need a certain amount of back pressure on the exhaust to run properly -as designed, otherwise they waste too much fuel (that goes out unburnt). The environmentalists don't like it.
@@holmes1956O Lol, yes. It's not good advice anyway, as Stihl spend a great deal of time and effort to get every minute thing correct on their saws -including the exhaust systems and that's why they out-sell any other make.
@@johnsomerset1510 I would have to disagree with you only because a motor is nothing more than an air pump! Any interference with airflow through the motor decreases efficiency. The internal baffle was only designed to decrease sound Levels, reducing a small amount of power at the same time.
No, the chain stayed exactly the same the only difference between cuts was the muffler changes and carb adjustments. So yes, I had to adjust the carb. Sharpening the chain between Cuts is cheating yourself from knowing any true gains or losses. Thanks for asking!
When you adjust the rpm before and after the exhaust mod, then the time to saw that wood should be the same as the max rpm is set the same, right? So the benefit is then less fuel consumption with the mod?
For discussion purposes let’s say the unrestricted muffler uses 10% of the saws’ power, while the restrictive muffler uses 25% of the saws’ power. Set the saw for identical top speed when unloaded with both muffler versions. When doing that, remember you have 100% of the saws’ power available to overcome that 10% or 25% restriction. Then get into the wood. The unrestricted muffler lets you put 90% of the saws’ power into the wood, while the restrictive muffler lets you put 75% of the saws’ power into the wood. 90% - 75% = 15%. 15% / 75% = 20%, meaning the wood sees 20% more power for the same amount of fuel. Because the log sees 20% more power you will be able to cut it faster. Because the muffler is consuming less power you will burn less fuel per log.
2 strokes need the baffle to provide back pressure or the engine will over run and hole the piston . It leads you into believing that the machine is running faster ( which it is ) but that cause a pressure differential inside the cylinder and that overheats the gases causing piston failure . Don’t be fooled into removing the baffle . I’ve been working with 2 strokes for over 50 years and owned a tool hire business which repaired all and every petrol and electrical equipment from every manufacturer. It’s a fool’s errand that promises so much but makes you pay in the end, piston failure can score the barrel and that’s the start of a very costly repair.
sorry Murray, so many things wrong with your understanding of a two stroke I don’t know where to begin. What’s crazy is there are so many people out there that Think the same way you do. Except your theories are some of the most Ludacris ideas I’ve heard yet. Not trying to argue with you or put you down just trying to help you out, please don’t Share your ideas about two strokes as fact with other people Bad info only hurts others that believe you.
@@arboristlife3494 ever ridden a two stroke bike? Wont run without the exhaust. Not in rideable form anyway. Two stroke exhaust design is a tricky beast. Maybe you should learn more before getting snotty with someone with 50 years experience trying to be helpful.
@@bushratbeachbum Funny that a company with over a hundred years of building and designing would build new saw using a muffler with no baffles yet Husqvarna's new 592XP has no😁 baffles in the muffler.
more fuel, more RPM, more HP and more HEAT, the problem of any engine specially an air cooled one is to dissipate that heat so such a mod can bring the piston to bind in the cylinder causing extensive damage as the aluminum of the piston grows more than the cast iron of the sleeve when the temperature increases.
Better flowing exhaust always help But a swirling baffle (slams everything against the outer shell before exiting) To throw flames and anything that can start fires is better.....
A little bit of cheating there.... Your first two slabs were about an inch thick. The last two were, probably not even half-of-an-inch thick. That would make a difference on the pulling and tearing of the wood fibers on the outside of the cut.
Gew seconds per cut over hundreds and hundreds of cuts in a day of work and your right, u might make it to lunch. Obviously you have never slent 10/12 hour days running a chainsaw non stop
All of the spark arrester and DOT muffler police in this page wow. MODS are meant for beyond what it's meant for people relax. I believe this guy knows what's up. He didn't ask for silly regurgitations about tachometer checks, spark arrester safety and only you can prevent forest fire regurgitations from other youtube channels.
A chainsaw from factory has many things to take in consideration that has nothing to do with the saw working as good as it could, for example noise, environment etc. If someone then comes along and not have to think of these matters don't you think it's pretty easy to get more out of your machine with simple modifications? This is easy to see on mopeds, motorcycles and cars so why shouldn't it work the same on chainsaws. Let me refrase... it truly works the same on chainsaws to.
Just amazing how many urban legends get quoted with zero proof and then the internet safety sallies chime in uselessly. Don't forget the spark arrestor police.
Wow guess work. To do it right you need to measure the port area at the piston. Then dod the math and hit your target area for the muffler hole. It's smaller than the port area. Hint Hint. The louvers are the only thing saving that muffler and the openings don't look correct size. Stihl are choked bad from the factory but you open it too much and you are not helping the saw
You’re absolutely right, I actually made a video about that except I didn’t talk about the 70% rule. Excellent point about the louvers! too many people saying there’s not enough back pressure because I took out the baffle😖 stupid.
yap . about 1/4 turn. in or out Hi jet screw ? my saw runs hot , so i keep the rpm low and Leen on the saw. 🦊 I just did a similar mode to the same saw MS250 . it starts and runs good now.
Lets not talk about re tuning the carb PROPERLY, fuel usage, noise, and the fact that this will reduce power if you have a stratospherically scavenging engine. But hey.
Since I am not a parfessional arborist, I will keep my MS 250 stock as it cuts extremely well for what it is, and I certainly DO NOT want to omit the spark arrestor screen !!!! STUPID !!!!!!
You probably won’t believe me but my MS 250 with muffler mod, timing advance and E85 fuel. Yes that’s right modified to run on corn alcohol lol. I do have a 261C The M-Tronic pro series and the 250 will out perform the 261 all day. What do you think?
Never in my 21 years of experience running a Chain saw have I ever seen a spark come from the exhaust especially one that would cause a fire. However I once caused Bark to start smoldering during a low stump cut where the exhaust gas was blowing directly into the dry bark for a period of time.
If you drove a diesel truck instead of a Prius you wouldn’t have to be told that in order for manufactures to meet strict governing body standards such as maximum Decibel levels, emission standards, vibration management guidelines and much more, engineers all too often rob Peter to pay Paul. By designing A muffler to be quiet enough as to pass below the maximum decibel level established will intern cut overall maximum output of a particular Engine. Causing said engine to fall short of peak efficiency! Then again, driving off into the sunset in your Prius, your not the type to be bothered by things like diesel exhaust fluid, dpf’s, EGR systems, restrictive exhaust systems, smog pumps and so much more. And all for what? So Joe public can feel good knowing he’s doing his part for the environment but pay no attention to the unrestricted balls to the wall big polluters out there. Or maybe you actually meant that the stihl engineers really are stupid? Who knows I kind of went off on a tangent lol 😂
Do you truly believe that chainsaw, car, motorcycle - manufacturer can build a product that works as good as it could and no regards has been taken from powerfull interests as environment authorities and other that hates petrol and diesel engines? If so, you have been so thoroughly taken in! Stop believe that government and other authorities have our best in mind, they don't. Careers has to be made, extreme amounts of money is up in the air and alot of companies wants a bit of that cake. No one thinks even one thought for people like you and me. They don't care if your chainsaw even works, they care about their job and to force their personal truth on companies like Stihl. It amazes me people doesn't understand things like this and walk thru life both deaf and blind.
the manufacturer have to meet noise, pollution and safety requirements plus, they have to support a warrenty to be able to sell to the public, so, there is trade off like baffle in the mufflers to meet that In your backyard, you can do what you want with your equipments but if an accident ( injury, fire, etc...) happens, be sure that the manufacturer will not support you if the equipment have been modified.
I’m sure you’re absolutely right about shortening the lifespan of the saw, so this parts gonna blow your mind. To make the video I actually converted the saw back to running gasoline, two years ago I modified it to run on E85 ethanol Which dramatically increased power output. I’ll be uploading that video as soon as I can. The motor is completely stock/no porting or polishing so I’m interested to see how long it lasts. When it does blow up I’ll do a teardown video showing what failed. I love to tinker and can’t leave anything alone, I believe there is no such thing as too much power lol. In the pursuit of all things that excite me blowing up the saw is one of my least concerns.Thanks for your input!
If you are on any forest service ,or dnr property running a saw without a spark arrestor screen they will fine you, and may confiscate your saw. Very irresponsible to advocate something that could burn down the forest.
You need to be smarter then the exaust pipe that you made the mod to! I modified every exaust pipe on every 2-stroke engine i own. If you leave all that shit in there, Baffles, Spark arrestor, you will certainly bake the piston! Just look at the old chainsaws, Most of them had nothing more then a stinger exaust pipe on them! A 2-stroke piston travels way to fast to be restricted by Baffles, spark arrestor screens and such. And the spent fuel coming out when the exaust port opens up is traveling at twice the speed of sound when super heated, There is no time for the last spent charge to get out of the exaust pipe before another super heated charge is entered into the pipe causing massive heat when it is restricted by all that crap! And if your chainsaw is spitting sparks out the exaust you are doing it wrong!
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Was a sawyer for year's and my personal experience is most saws need some restriction in the exhaust system. As far as the exhaust screen I personally use it when on national forest, just for liability purposes. When I was sawing we would start falling before the sun came up and I can tell you the amount of sparks that come off the chain is significantly higher than what come from the exhaust even on a super modified saw.
Dyno testing has proven that gains are to be had with no restrictions in the exhaust. It does move the power curve though, this is where folks get confused. You might actually loose power at your normal cutting speed, but gain it elsewhere, which might or might not benefit your particular sawing methods. I been cutting timber for 25 years with ported chainsaws, I would never run a stock saw. The older stihls even came factory with dual port or even triple port mufflers like the 038mag 2 made in west germany. The factory knows that getting the exhaust out is a plus. OSHA is what caused the mufflers to become more restrictive, to meet noise requirements
A Lil bit is required to make good power if you don't have any resistance your it will just sound loud
Hey ignore the angry (jealous) comments regarding your video. It was well produced, clear and easy to follow. I think you gave an unbiased video based on YOUR experience. Others are free to do their own video...yeesh! There are some illogical people out there! Anyone buying a MS250 is not likely to be a forestry ranger out in the dry bush. The 250 is a great arborist saw, or yard/farm saw cutting up lengths of chord wood etc so spark hazard doesn’t really exist. By the wear on your saw, it has had a lot of use and it hasn’t blown up because of your mods so you must be doing something right. Just a thought, at the very least, people should keep that screen clean cuz it really robs power when plugged. I threw mine out. Thanks again!
You can mod this muffler without cutting it apart.
Once you open up the exhaust opening, there is room to get in to open up the baffle with a drill bit. (On an angle)
Then use a dremel to clean it up.
Both the exhaust exit opening and baffle opening are roughly the same size now.
-you can see right through it, but still has the muffler structure so you can bolt tightly.
Also, you’ll need to take the limiter cap off your HI adjustment. They don’t give you enough play to adjust -you will blow your engine up at 15k+ rpm after mod.
Richen up the mixture and use a tach if you’re not good with setting by ear.
Target rpm is 13k rpm (give or take).
Yes thanks for this. I am did a mod on my muffler too. To open it, I ground a small amount off of one corner only, right on the outside edge, then I used an old chisel to pry the top lamination up of the three there. I pried up the foldover, then cut it in the middle with side cutters, then hold the muffler in a vice so I could heat it up with propane till nearly cherry red and used a small flat screw driver to bend up a section of the foldover at a time, moving down each side. I did 3 sides and was then able to slide/lift that top off the muffler, and reveal the inner baffle. In my case I drill a lot of large holes in it. Reassembly was easy, just slide the top back in, fold back the foldover to secure it. Yes I enjoy having more power, and I know it will take the heat away from the exhaust side cylinder much better, decreasing the chance of seizing. It uses more fuel too of course, as it runs faster and a larger amount of the induction gases (fuel air) bypass straight out the exhaust ( which means it is better at having cleaner combustion gases, and a bigger intake of air each stroke. Its not a tuned exhaust, just free flowing.
I'm really glad that all worked out for you. This mod makes such a big difference on a stock saw its kind of silly.
Those gide tubes are so you don't crush the muffler when tightening the bolts
it's more for guiding - only idiots tighten screws enough to crush parts. Have you ever tried to put a long bolt through a second hole with a big, blind gap between? it's a pain in the ass - so they put those tubes, which happen to also add unnecessary structural rigidity. Derr hurr I'm so smart momma I made duh youtube comment telling da guy he was wong
@@tragikk03 i swear these mufflers add at least a lb to the weight of the damn saw. i'm going see if i can just bolt a pipe to the chainsaw somehow
@@tragikk03You guys are hilarious! I usually bolt my lips to the cylinder and let the exhaust gas blow through me and out my ass. But I realize not everyone can do that. Because they haven't taken out the baffle yet.
@@schlomoshekelstein908 thanks schlomo sheklestein
@@schlomoshekelstein908oy ma goy
Beauty, I just picked up a used MS250. Perfect time to find this video.
Same here.
I took the screen out of the muffler on my Echo leaf blower, and it made a huge difference! (I did not remove the baffle)
I'm only here cuz I like putting these engines on bicycles but nice vid I'm gonna try this
That’s bad ass!
What do you use for gear reduction to run the bicycle?
I’ve actually made a scooter powered by a MS 044 once. I had to use a jack shaft and A total of four sprockets/2 chains to reduce the gear ratio. It worked out great and still hit 28 mph.
@Arborist Life wow you're going all out I use a yd100 Chinese 2 stroke bottom end do some modification to the transfers and bolt patterns and slap a 460 cylinder on.. things do 50+
I know what I'm doing when I get home. Have a couple to mess with.
Those 'guide rods' are called crush tubes. Crush tubes are used everywhere.
TH-cam needs more chainsaw vids like this one man. Thank you. +1
I wish I could see that inner baffle? That you removed
The RPMs need to be checked with a Tach. to ensure that it's not over revving.
Yea she’s running a little high 😬
i doubt this mod would make the saw rev high enough to do any damage. since its a 2 stoke you could probably push it pretty high in the revs before any component got to its failure point.
You should’ve included in this video, that the revs must be checked with a tachometer and that a carby adjustment will be required after doing this modification, otherwise, a good modification.
You’re absolutely right and not the first person to mention that lol… I won’t make the same mistake twice! Thanks.
@@arboristlife3494
That’s not a mistake on your part but a “mere oversight”. 👍👍
@@brianwalker1933 but he DID make a mistake by claiming he made a mistake right? I NEVER make mistakes .. I thought I did once but I was wrong
@@gschady 😂
@@gschady So law of averages , thats 1 1/2 booboos...LOl
What you did was remove what was restricting back pressure so that’s actually smart. I gotta see if my poulan is like this
I gut my muffler but use a exhaust pipe that keeps a little pressure in the can. 3/4 I D pipe on 60 cc. Runs cool and bigger carb makes more power. Not just more rpm.
What about making a mini expansion chamber for a pipe
Not a professional but have run saws most of my life cutting fire wood. Have had one stihl in all those years and would never own another one. The first thing I look for now in any saw is if you can take the pull rope housing off without having to dismantle the saw. The stihl I had you had to take the hand grip or whatever you call it off to take the housing off. It had rubber antivibe inserts, One of them tore while dismantling it. I am not a mechanic and could not get it back together. Shop fees with their minimums would have cost me more than what I payed for the saw. Will never own a stihl again. P.S. Best saw I ever had was a poulan I bought in 1982, Had that saw for over 20 years went through countless bars and chains The shop where I bought it told me they don't make parts for it any more so I got the stihl. Never again
If the shop time for the daw cost more the the saw to repair a pull starter and a ripped rubber grommet you bought the 170 or something similar. Those r shit saws and u bought the cheapest saw and expected top of the line performance. Also, most of my saws are t Yeats or older and I haven't broken the pull start yet, your doing something wrong and consistently are doing it if the 1st feature you look for it being able to quickly fix the pull starter. Stop trying to rip it outta the saw. You shouldn't be pulling till you hit the end of the rope.
I'm like you, I bought a new Stihl MS 250 because everybody said that Stihl was the best. The 250 was what I could afford at the time. You couldn't give me another Stihl chainsaw. I'm 74 years old now and have been using chainsaws since my early 20's and I know how to start one but by the time I can get it started I'm too tired to use it. I too had a Poulan Pro that I bought at a yard sale and it sat for about 7 years with old gas in it and it fired up within 3 pulls. The Stihl takes a minimum of 12 to 15 pulls to get it going and if it's hot it literally won't start at all until it cools down. If I could afford another saw I'd toss it in a dumpster somewhere. I do still have the Poulan and it still runs great.
@@johngersna3263 Poulan to profesjonalna piła z metalowym karterem? MS 250 to zwykła piła dla amatorów, z karterem plastikowym. Łatwo się przegrzewa w plastikowym ociepleniu - "pierzynie". Taka jest różnica.
Najlepsza mała piła, ze starych modeli Stihl, to MS 200, potem już tylko MS 260. Produkują je nadal w Europie, na Ukrainie oraz w Chinach - PRC, odpowiednio jako Holzfforma G111 i G260.
@@LJ3Mr English please. I failed gibberish in high school.
@@joeloy1800 I've been using chainsaws saws for over 50 years. Maybe you could make a video showing me how to start one. To me, $300 is not a cheap saw. Maybe it is to you. Sorry that I don't meet your professional status.
when it comes to 2 stroke engines, exhaust tuning is a MAJOR factor in power and power band curve. Just opening up the muffler doesn't help because you absolutely need the reverberation to push back and boost compression or you never get that huge kick in power everyone that has ever been thrown off the back of a 2 stroke dirt bike knows.
Nice , I'll give that a go . Thanks for posting 👍🇬🇧
thanks have an old style muffler on mine and i got a chinese muffler to mod and i thought it was just a cheaper way they made them... was planning to mod it thinking i would get the same split design
Subscribed....very good mod ..I did both my 025's the same way🤙🏻🪓😎
the better mod would be to get rid of the stock .325 chain and go to 3/8 or get the .325 chain with the 3/8 cutters
Just go all-out and put an expansion chamber exhaust on it like the competition guys do!
Wow goober that few seconds I just might make it to lunch .
A few seconds? That was nearly a 50% reduction. If you're doing that for an entire weekend, you're nearly cutting your work down to 1 day. Good critical thinking skills the, short bus; as if people are going to do this to make 1 cut?
I’ve heard a 2 stroke with no exhaust back pressure won’t last long ?.
I realize this is 2 years late but i thought Id answer your question anyway. there is still some back pressure, just a lot less. and yes you can shorten the lifespan of a two stroke by doing this if you don't adjust the carburetor after. The better flow causes the saw to run lean, meaning it revs too high and doesn't get the necessary lubrication. thats why he has the tachometer to show the carb is properly adjusted.
I bet that you had to adjust the carb after opening that muffler.
Absolutely
I modded my stihl by buying a Husqvarna, it cuts a lot faster now.
🤣🤣🤣 Husqvarna builds great saws
@@williamsharp2532 unfortunately, i had to go to the xp model to get a metal case and forged crank
Cant lug a husky like u can a stihl
Put the pipe down!
Do you attend the pride marches now too?
Im just here to wonder how the heck you can start that thing with one pull and no decompression. I have a 251 and the compression jerks my shoulder loose. Had to buy an echo with decompression switch, as my shoulder cant take it any more.
Ha ha thanks. I typically rest the 32 inch bar of my 661 on a log and start it the same way LOL.
If you increased the saws power to the blade from 75% to 90% how is it possible an increase of 15% allowed you to cut almost rwice as fast? Im with the guy whos calling you out on sharpening the chain between tests. Chips are definitely bigger in the last test. Just busting your balls good modification. Make sure if you do this to readjust your carburetor.
Another guy asked me something similar. If you increase power, but the RPM of the chain stays the same. How does it cut in a faster? The answer is that you can push harder. Putter More pressure on the saw/wood, making it eat more without bugging down. Also, before doing the test, I sharpened the chain, I like to take the rakers down a little bit overstock. Which is going to make it bite more wood. A lot of people think that I might have sharpened it in between runs. The truth is, absolutely not! Obviously that would completely Ruin, the entire test. I know you don't know me, but I am an honorable man. And I swear on the lives of my children.
I did not sharpen the chain between comparisons. Also I did have to adjust the cooperator I forgot to mention that in the video.
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate the feedback.
Nice sawrus Trees-R-Us Oregon
I'm sure it will help the saw breath, but it also look like you may have sharpened the chain as well? The chips on the first test cuts look pretty wimpy, the second test look like the chain is much sharper. We also see the file in the second test. I'm not sure that is a fair test.
That would completely defeat the purpose of doing a comparison test in the first place. But thanks for asking.
What’s that song at the end of the video?
The saw does run stronger but you have also removed and spark arresting ability. Might work harder but now it's more of a fire hazard.
Yeah I know, it’s easy enough to put it back in if needed.
Trzeba mieć przy sobie podczas pracy gaśnicę. Tego wymagają przepisy przeciw pożarowe!
It runs better, but the risk of burning the piston increases significantly. A 2-stroke engine relies on a certain resistance to run good and not burning the piston.
I don’t think you’re taking into consideration the three louvers at the muffler exit, they provide all the
Resistance needed for resonance which can be made larger or smaller for Peak performance. all the baffle does is slow exhaust gases and slightly bring down decibel levels. Obviously, the carburetor needs to be tuned for the modification as to not go lean, damaging the motor like you’re talking about.
PS. I’ve been running that very saw with the “muffler mod” just over two years now nearly every day for work with no problems.
@Blake Hoekzema Does the fuel consumption increase?
So looking at what was done with the muffler why not just leave it off? Asking honestly, would it create issues other than a little more noise?
Good video sergio argentina
Did you turn to the mod?. Thanks from Oamaru Sth island New Zealand
Glad it worked for you but a lot of engines need back pressure to work right
No they don’t. That is just a myth.
@@brianwalker1933 Well you haven't owned a four cly k car wtth a aurto tranny you rmove the exhaust the car will have no vacuum and the engine will run like shit and the tranny will not shift and thats not the only engine that will not run without exhaust
OK well a four stroke engine is a completely different animal, regarding taking the exhaust off of a car depending on where are you disconnect the exhaust will introduce different symptoms. Example removing the exhaust manifold will do multiple things like disabling the EGR valve causing multiple issues I can go into if you’d like? As well as disabling upstream and downstream O2 sensors forcing the car to go into limp mode because the computer has no idea how much fuel to deliver. Also removing exhaust=losing any back pressure how does that cause a vacuum leak? Because back pressure and vacuum are complete opposite of each other. Think of your two-stroke engine as an air pump basically that’s all it is, with efficiency in mind moving the air through the engine as effortless as possible is what it’s all about. Thanks for your input though.
@@arboristlife3494 I think there are a lot of 2 cycle dirt bike mechanics that will vehemently disagree, backpressure and tuned exhaust makes a huge difference on two cycles that depend on the flow of gas inertia and reflected pressure wave to suck the next charge in. Have a look at the crazy sh*t they do to exhausts when trying to squeeze that last 1% of performance out. No doubt Stihl did a lot of math and some real world testing to come up with the design of that muffler. You gonna beat that on a guess and a dremel? Unlikely that once you have adjusted your carb for proper mix that you have actually improved performance. Besides it's a freakin ms250, how much time will you save? If you cut for a living, sharp chain and just enough fuel to cut with a fully loaded bar, is where you will make the most money. If you burn 1/3 more fuel to save 2 seconds on a cut, have you actually saved any time? Would be interesting to see if adjust your carb to spec so you dont blow your engine, then put an exact amount of fuel in and see how long it runs till empty, put a stock muffler back on, adjust the carb to spec again and repeat the same fuel consumption test.
@@laserflexr6321 I'll agree with what you're saying, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I understand the 290- 390 muffler mods, where the baffles aren't removed, but a nice mod of only slightly higher noise but significant cooling and performance with a minor carb adjustment. But, to completely remove the baffle......
👍
and no re tune of high speed running jet ?.
Either your chain is super dull or I’m not sure what’s going on on that first cut but that’s quite slow
So the chain was plenty sharp and I did not sharpen it after muffler mod,
I think the very first cut was so much slower because the end of the log was dried out and harder than the rest.??
What do you think?
I need to do the video again using a “control log” made up of a bunch of 2x4 glued together for consistency. Like I did in my MS 194 VS MS 201t video. Please check it out let me know what you think. Thanks!
I just sharpen the chain💁🏼♂️
Really? Seriously?
Good video, but I find my saws run as well as new when I just clean out all the carbon in the muffler. By the way, two-strokes need a certain amount of back pressure on the exhaust to run properly -as designed, otherwise they waste too much fuel (that goes out unburnt). The environmentalists don't like it.
Yup what he didnt show or say anything about was the new chain he put on between muffler changes
@@holmes1956O Lol, yes. It's not good advice anyway, as Stihl spend a great deal of time and effort to get every minute thing correct on their saws -including the exhaust systems and that's why they out-sell any other make.
@@johnsomerset1510 ageed
@@holmes1956O 🤣🤣🤣 sorry bud the chain was exactly the same throughout the entire video and was not sharpened or changed in anyway.
@@johnsomerset1510 I would have to disagree with you only because a motor is nothing more than an air pump! Any interference with airflow through the motor decreases efficiency. The internal baffle was only designed to decrease sound Levels, reducing a small amount of power at the same time.
Did you sharpen the chain ?…any carb adjustment?
No, the chain stayed exactly the same the only difference between cuts was the muffler changes and carb adjustments. So yes, I had to adjust the carb.
Sharpening the chain between Cuts is cheating yourself from knowing any true gains or losses.
Thanks for asking!
@@arboristlife3494 ..got it..tnks 👍🏼
When you adjust the rpm before and after the exhaust mod, then the time to saw that wood should be the same as the max rpm is set the same, right? So the benefit is then less fuel consumption with the mod?
For discussion purposes let’s say the unrestricted muffler uses 10% of the saws’ power, while the restrictive muffler uses 25% of the saws’ power.
Set the saw for identical top speed when unloaded with both muffler versions. When doing that, remember you have 100% of the saws’ power available to overcome that 10% or 25% restriction.
Then get into the wood. The unrestricted muffler lets you put 90% of the saws’ power into the wood, while the restrictive muffler lets you put 75% of the saws’ power into the wood.
90% - 75% = 15%. 15% / 75% = 20%, meaning the wood sees 20% more power for the same amount of fuel.
Because the log sees 20% more power you will be able to cut it faster. Because the muffler is consuming less power you will burn less fuel per log.
@josephdugal4533
One of the best explanations on this post.
2 strokes need the baffle to provide back pressure or the engine will over run and hole the piston . It leads you into believing that the machine is running faster ( which it is ) but that cause a pressure differential inside the cylinder and that overheats the gases causing piston failure . Don’t be fooled into removing the baffle . I’ve been working with 2 strokes for over 50 years and owned a tool hire business which repaired all and every petrol and electrical equipment from every manufacturer. It’s a fool’s errand that promises so much but makes you pay in the end, piston failure can score the barrel and that’s the start of a very costly repair.
sorry Murray, so many things wrong with your understanding of a two stroke I don’t know where to begin. What’s crazy is there are so many people out there that Think the same way you do. Except your theories are some of the most Ludacris ideas I’ve heard yet. Not trying to argue with you or put you down just trying to help you out, please don’t Share your ideas about two strokes as fact with other people Bad info only hurts others that believe you.
@@arboristlife3494 ever ridden a two stroke bike?
Wont run without the exhaust. Not in rideable form anyway.
Two stroke exhaust design is a tricky beast.
Maybe you should learn more before getting snotty with someone with 50 years experience trying to be helpful.
@@arboristlife3494 well we could all say the same about your opinions too. Dont be so quick to dismiss someone who says they have 50 years experience.
@@bushratbeachbum Funny that a company with over a hundred years of building and designing would build new saw using a muffler with no baffles yet Husqvarna's new 592XP has no😁 baffles in the muffler.
more fuel, more RPM, more HP and more HEAT, the problem of any engine specially an air cooled one is to dissipate that heat so such a mod can bring the piston to bind in the cylinder causing extensive damage as the aluminum of the piston grows more than the cast iron of the sleeve when the temperature increases.
Better flowing exhaust always help
But a swirling baffle (slams everything against the outer shell before exiting)
To throw flames and anything that can start fires is better.....
Nice mod what's your fuel mix for that saw
I keep it at 50 to 1 never had any problems with that.
A little bit of cheating there.... Your first two slabs were about an inch thick. The last two were, probably not even half-of-an-inch thick. That would make a difference on the pulling and tearing of the wood fibers on the outside of the cut.
4:27 lol
Beauty
Ever heard of an expansion tube ?
I know what an expansion chamber is but I’ve never heard of a expansion tube?
Dude that looks super simple. I'm kinda getting into chainsaw mods a little. Just curious, do you know how much louder it is than stock?
It’s noticeable but not terrible.
Well you have ears dont you? lol
😁
Would using a 40:1 fuel mix make the engine last longer?
Honestly I’m not sure, I guess it all depends on how the engine fails when it does.
Working hands
If you open up the exhaust, don’t you have to up jet?
I forgot to mention that in the video
Gew seconds per cut over hundreds and hundreds of cuts in a day of work and your right, u might make it to lunch. Obviously you have never slent 10/12 hour days running a chainsaw non stop
Let's Rock!
All of the spark arrester and DOT muffler police in this page wow. MODS are meant for beyond what it's meant for people relax. I believe this guy knows what's up. He didn't ask for silly regurgitations about tachometer checks, spark arrester safety and only you can prevent forest fire regurgitations from other youtube channels.
The muffler was designed the way it was for a reason. Sure, modify the muffler on a car will make it run faster and louder. Ah what? I can’t hear you.
A chainsaw from factory has many things to take in consideration that has nothing to do with the saw working as good as it could, for example noise, environment etc.
If someone then comes along and not have to think of these matters don't you think it's pretty easy to get more out of your machine with simple modifications?
This is easy to see on mopeds, motorcycles and cars so why shouldn't it work the same on chainsaws.
Let me refrase... it truly works the same on chainsaws to.
Just amazing how many urban legends get quoted with zero proof and then the internet safety sallies chime in uselessly. Don't forget the spark arrestor police.
you kinda skipped over an important step. don't forget to adjust your carb after modifying the muffler.
Yeah I totally forgot to put that in the video it definitely took some tuning after the muffler mod.
Did you just do yours or have they been modded for a while? Can you believe the difference it makes!
It really surprised me.
Can you demonstrate how to tune the carb for this mod?
Just wanted to say. That chain is dull af. A sharp chain makes a big difference
Wow guess work. To do it right you need to measure the port area at the piston. Then dod the math and hit your target area for the muffler hole. It's smaller than the port area. Hint Hint. The louvers are the only thing saving that muffler and the openings don't look correct size. Stihl are choked bad from the factory but you open it too much and you are not helping the saw
You’re absolutely right, I actually made a video about that except I didn’t talk about the 70% rule.
Excellent point about the louvers!
too many people saying there’s not enough back pressure because I took out the baffle😖 stupid.
Did you have to tune the carb?
yap . about 1/4 turn. in or out Hi jet screw ?
my saw runs hot , so i keep the rpm low and Leen on the saw. 🦊
I just did a similar mode to the same saw MS250 . it starts and runs good now.
@@larz46north18what about just buying a muffler for the older model 025
Lets not talk about re tuning the carb PROPERLY, fuel usage, noise, and the fact that this will reduce power if you have a stratospherically scavenging engine. But hey.
When I made the video, I totally forgot to talk about returning the saw.
In time you loose compression and can broke piston cause the muffler is studied for the right compression
Sharpen your chain.
Sounds like good arguments on both sides. So now what?????
Since I am not a parfessional arborist, I will keep my MS 250 stock as it cuts extremely well for what it is, and I certainly DO NOT want to omit the spark arrestor screen !!!! STUPID !!!!!!
Валит аж сі шуба завертає.
I'd use it ✌️😊
Or get a 261…
You probably won’t believe me but my MS 250 with muffler mod, timing advance and E85 fuel. Yes that’s right modified to run on corn alcohol lol. I do have a 261C The M-Tronic pro series and the 250 will out perform the 261 all day. What do you think?
Sharpen that saw
Sharpen your chain 😢
I'm confused by your comment. Does the chain look dull to you? If so, please
Show me what a sharp chain looks like on an MS250. Thanks!
Man your chain is dull
Nice job removing the spark arrestor feature designed into this saw for use in the woods.
Never in my 21 years of experience running a Chain saw have I ever seen a spark come from the exhaust especially one that would cause a fire. However I once caused Bark to start smoldering during a low stump cut where the exhaust gas was blowing directly into the dry bark for a period of time.
Golly
Those Stihl engineers
Are so stupid
If you drove a diesel truck instead of a Prius you wouldn’t have to be told that in order for manufactures to meet strict governing body standards such as maximum Decibel levels,
emission standards, vibration management guidelines and much more, engineers all too often rob Peter to pay Paul. By designing A muffler to be quiet enough as to pass below the maximum decibel level established will intern cut overall maximum output of a particular Engine. Causing said engine to fall short of peak efficiency!
Then again, driving off into the sunset in your Prius, your not the type to be bothered by things like diesel exhaust fluid, dpf’s, EGR systems, restrictive exhaust systems, smog pumps and so much more. And all for what?
So Joe public can feel good knowing he’s doing his part for the environment but pay no attention to the unrestricted balls to the wall big polluters out there.
Or maybe you actually meant that the stihl engineers really are stupid?
Who knows I kind of went off on a tangent lol 😂
@@arboristlife3494 “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -A. Einstein
Do you truly believe that chainsaw, car, motorcycle - manufacturer can build a product that works as good as it could and no regards has been taken from powerfull interests as environment authorities and other that hates petrol and diesel engines?
If so, you have been so thoroughly taken in!
Stop believe that government and other authorities have our best in mind, they don't. Careers has to be made, extreme amounts of money is up in the air and alot of companies wants a bit of that cake.
No one thinks even one thought for people like you and me.
They don't care if your chainsaw even works, they care about their job and to force their personal truth on companies like Stihl.
It amazes me people doesn't understand things like this and walk thru life both deaf and blind.
the manufacturer have to meet noise, pollution and safety requirements plus, they have to support a warrenty to be able to sell to the public, so, there is trade off like baffle in the mufflers to meet that
In your backyard, you can do what you want with your equipments but if an accident ( injury, fire, etc...) happens, be sure that the manufacturer will not support you if the equipment have been modified.
Saw is dull
totally agree
Chain is dull
FIRE HAZARD
You have also decreased the life of the saw. Millennials buy New Cars and Trucks and Destroy them with their Mods. Thanks Daddy.
I’m sure you’re absolutely right about shortening the lifespan of the saw, so this parts gonna blow your mind. To make the video I actually converted the saw back to running gasoline, two years ago I modified it to run on E85 ethanol Which dramatically increased power output. I’ll be uploading that video as soon as I can. The motor is completely stock/no porting or polishing so I’m interested to see how long it lasts. When it does blow up I’ll do a teardown video showing what failed. I love to tinker and can’t leave anything alone, I believe there is no such thing as too much power lol. In the pursuit of all things that excite me blowing up the saw is one of my least concerns.Thanks for your input!
@@arboristlife3494 You bought the saw with your own money, it's yours to do whatever you want with it !
If you are on any forest service ,or dnr property running a saw without a spark arrestor screen they will fine you, and may confiscate your saw. Very irresponsible to advocate something that could burn down the forest.
It’s easy enough to put one in if I feel the need, thanks though.
You need to be smarter then the exaust pipe that you made the mod to! I modified every exaust pipe on every 2-stroke engine i own. If you leave all that shit in there, Baffles, Spark arrestor, you will certainly bake the piston! Just look at the old chainsaws, Most of them had nothing more then a stinger exaust pipe on them! A 2-stroke piston travels way to fast to be restricted by Baffles, spark arrestor screens and such. And the spent fuel coming out when the exaust port opens up is traveling at twice the speed of sound when super heated, There is no time for the last spent charge to get out of the exaust pipe before another super heated charge is entered into the pipe causing massive heat when it is restricted by all that crap! And if your chainsaw is spitting sparks out the exaust you are doing it wrong!
😂😅😂😅