Will Electric Vehicles be the Death of the caravan Industry?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- After reciveving a few comments on the subject of Electric vehicles,
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potentially having an impact on the caravan industry, I had a look at the topic as I didn't believe they would. In this video share my thoughts on the issue and provide some handy reasorces to prehaps help you make your mind up too..
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Caravanners need to team up with industries that depend on towing. Building contractors that use plant trailers, tipper trailers etc and agriculture which use livestock trailers to move animals and to take them to market as well as flat-bed trailers to move equipment and supplies. All of these tend to tow up to the maximum of 3.5 tonnes with pick-ups and SUV (4x4s). Caravans are by and large for leisure use and as a group will be ignored. Businesses, especially agriculture, cannot be so easily ignored in the same way and everyone who tows should group together to greate a lobby group.
There are plenty of modern EVs that can tow a caravan that you can buy now! Your thoughts about where EVs and batteries are now is five years out of date! Forget talking about solid state batteries for now. Toyota have missed the boat along with most Japanese car makers. Companies in America are already developing caravans with a built in traction battery. But to be honest what's killing caravans for me is the ridiculous price caravan parks are charging per night. Totally ludicrous prices! And the ridiculous cost of fuel! Maybe there will be a big swing to EV MOTORHOMES.
Change is needed in the design of caravans. Weight and aerodynamics will be key. Design concepts for pull out sides or pop out roofs. We need to go from towing a brick to towing a van with less resistance. The first manufacture to tackle this will survive. Why did we go away from wind slammers etc they are proved to work. We need to think out the box .
Just buy a van, the van is about the same in size as the front aspect of the caravan. Believe me, it totally transforms towing for the better, in aerodynamics and total rig control.
Andrew Dutton hasn't children what on earth do you with little ones when your trying to charge, and what about the thousands of people who go rallying with solar panels and no electricity
Good point, he does say it would be easier with two people, but not what a nightmare it would be kids in tow..
If you are travelling g 250 miles, do you not stop with children? Or do you stop for a bite to eat for half an hour on the way? That’s all it needs to top up the car. Just stop, plug it I and go for a loo stop and bite to eat.
Some EVs (Kia, Hyundai and others) can power their caravans as if they are plugged into mains. They are ideal for rallying. Compared to solar panels, and EV would power a caravan for weeks.
@@nealeTH that’s if a charger is available, and you’d have to detach the caravan as well..
@@atlanticcaravansUK I have never had to wait for a charger in the 2 years I have had an EV and detaching a caravan, although irritating, is a 5 min job at most. It’s not as if you are setting up the caravan - it is just jockey wheel, brake, unhitch. 99% of my touring I don’t charge with a caravan anyway - I can tow 150 miles without charging. When do, it’s not the end of the world.
I have a Hyundai Kona EV…..and a Trigano (Chausson) 290 750kg Tourer…great for us. Range towing is 180 miles.
Not for everyone…yet. But no need to worry about the future….the 2000kg Caravan is a thing of the past anyhow.
The caravan industry will kill itself unless it shifts its focus to
I love my EV but then most of my daily journeys are under 60 miles. If I am driving longer distances I like to stop for a break or for food anyway so charging is no big deal. But that is with a 38kW battery and an efficient car. Once you tow the coeefficent of drag hits EVs hard. As much as I think charging tech will improve, I also think the move to EV requires a change of mindset about how we travel.
A massive problem that so many ev drivers forget. Next year car dealers have to sell 35% electric so the ev charging points will be much more in demand and the year after is much worst. I have a PHEV and it is good but I hate battery power.
Surely it’s up to the customers what they want to buy, the government can’t make the dealers sell 35% EV’s if the customers don’t want them?
The problem with EVs is always the range. The technology already exists for lighter, more powerful and quicker to charge batteries and also ones that don’t need rare earth metals either. The problem is getting it to market at a reasonable price. Once this issue is solved I’ll happily get an EV, but until then I’ll stick with diesel.
A good few EV,s now capable of 350 miles plus. Charging bays are now coming available for vehicles towing. 1:32
@@s111nps yeah but 350 means 170 towing which is about half what you need if travelling to Europe for example as you waste too much time charging.
@@s111nps most folks with EV's go from 20% to 80%, with a 350 mile range, this leaves you with 210 mile range. while towing however, more like 105 mile worry free range. Not good enough.
We need to encourage sites to offer charging facilities. I agree that technology will improve but once you buy an EV are you really going to change it every three years, unless it’s a company car. We need to address the base issues and not expect technology to deliver a widespread answer.
But as the battery technology improves the infrastructure won’t be as critical, it depends on the ratio of progress, if the progress is slow I can’t see the desire for EV’s to increase. A lot of new vehicles are bought on PCP which encourages the owner to change every 3 or 4 years.
@@atlanticcaravansUK I agree technology will improve range and capability, however it will also increase the cost to change and the cost of PCP packages as no one will want first or early generation electric vehicles if they can’t provide the required capacity to tow and have a great range. ICE second hand vehicles still tow and go the distances of newer cars. It’s going to be a difficult transition. Which has been brought forward by the new government bringing forward the change to electric again.
I agree with this. The need to tow vehicles goes beyond the caravan industry. Pragmatism and capitalism will prevail, however compelling the eco arguments.
Sounds like we are getting communism with this wef net zero reset.
Definitely, if there’s big money to be made they’ll find a way..
When all trains are electric I may consider.
Put a caravan on the back of an EV and most likely you will halve the range, or worse. Most likely caravaners will stick with petrol or deisel tow vehicles.
Definitely, I don’t think it’s going to be a problem, but some people do judging by the comments I’ve seen.
I think it's more a case of caravan manufacturers catching up with EV's and developing fully powered electric vans. Why can't the caravan actually be used to charge an EV battery as it's travelling ?
Is a case of amps I think, it’s the oven that’s the problem, but a fitted air fryer would be cool!!
Andrew ditton had to get rid of his heavier airstream and replace it with a very light caravan to use in conjunction with his Kia EV 6. Even pulling a very light caravan, he could only tow up to 140 miles, with no recharging safety buffer at that mileage. To recharge, he has to detach his caravan, put security equipment on it, leave it unguarded in a remote car park, while he then goes with the car detached to charge it up, in a charging station that only allows the car and not the caravan. He then returns to the caravan and leaves it charging for some considerable time before he reverses the process to continue. With my diesel van, i can tow a 7.5 metre 4 berth fixed bed caravan 350 miles before refuelling and then instantly re-fuel without detaching the caravan, whilst putting diesel in. If I had to do it in an EV, I just wouldn't bother at all. So yes, EV's will be the death of caravanning.
Most caravanners are not environmentalist fanatics, willing to go to extremes wasting their lives sat by a charger and committing financial suicide buying an EV that depreciates and the battery degrades as fast as the labour party drops their pledges post election. In 2016 I bought an EV, I will never buy another EV after my experience. By the way improvements in battery capacity do not follow Moore's law. As a final thought, just like major battery capacity improvements, nuclear fusion has been just around the corner, for at least 50 years now. The lithium ion batteries we still use now, were first invented in 1985, nearly 40 years ago.
Not a fan then
@razork1976 I was actually an early EV adopter, amongst my combustion engined cars, vans and high power motorcycles I own, I bought an EV, 8 years ago. The battery has degraded 42% in a bit over 40 k miles and it has been a logistical nightmare to own. I was so impressed with it, I gave it to the wife to use as a local shopping trolley, fuelled by cheap octopus go overnight electricity. The only use case that makes any sense for an EV and immitates it's initial milk float use case, strangely enough. The answer I am afraid is no, I have tried one and will never buy another, they are just not a practical replacement for what an ice car can do, with no inconvenience at all, which an EV has in spades.
One of the current problems with BEV's and Hybrids is that more and more vehicles are being launched with tiny towing limits, where you'd expect them to pull much more. We've had a discussion about this on Caravan Talk and the conclusion seems to be that because these cars use regeneration braking you'll find you use the real brakes much less than with an ICE vehicle. Manufacturers therefore fit lighter brakes which can't cope with the added weight of a big caravan, hence the low limits. This does sort of sound plausible as its the newer cars that have the issue. If you take a 1 litre 155PS Ford Focus Estate that will have the brakes of its ICE version it'll pull 1500kg, but go to a Toyota Coralla Estate in hybrid form and its limited to 1000kg
Great Video as usual but i don't agree about electric cars. I've seen Andrews videos, he has a reasonably lightweight caravan because of his car and i think he is biased towards EV's. Nobody really wants EV's this whole thing is being pushed on manufactures and the public by governments, EV sales are slowing and who would buy a secondhand anything with a built in battery ? i wouldn't. Being in the contracting industry for years i remember battery power tools coming out and they were great but the first ones had built in batteries and when they died you couldn't use them until they were recharged usually taking hours, then removable battery packs became the standard and that's where we are today but not to a universal system every manufacturer has their own format and voltage. EVS are at the same point power tools were at years ago but the price difference between the two power sources is huge so removable EV battery packs won't happen. Weight is another issue, combined EV+ caravan gross weight. Depending on what you watch on TH-cam manufactures are apparently turning there back on EV'S. I don't think its the way forward. Hydrogen combustion engines are the way forward, JCB have a great video on there new Hydrogen engine.
Imagine the height of summer and on any one day 1000's of fully laden caravans being towed by fully laden EV's all needing to stop every 100 miles for charging, the motorway services cant cope now with poor allocation of caravan parking never mind elongated drive throughs. The free two hours allocated at many service stations will need to be extended - cant see that happening.
The road tests we see are all unladen caravans or as in Andrew Ditton's case a very light load.
The electrical infrastructure in caravan sites will need addressing especially in the winter months when a number of sites we have been on have had serious issues with failed substations as we all put on our heating systems never mind charging an EV. At the Pandy CAMC site last week the new EV charging points were not working.
Yes, it’s not ready for the transition yet, by the time we find most people are moving over to EV’s it’ll be a different world.
@@atlanticcaravansUK It will never happen !
There’s a lot of experts on social media with all the guff and facts and figures but in reality they regurgitate the tosh they read in the media. I have a Genesis EGV70 as a second car. It will tow 1500 kg with a real range of 250 miles and I won’t tow with it because it can’t take the nose weight of a twin axle caravan. I almost ordered an electric Porsche Macan to replace my current Cayenne but max noseweight is 80kg again nowhere near enough for a TA. EVs are fine for light caravans but they can’t replace the larger tow cars and for me that’s a bigger issue than range.
What you need is a diesel van. They are like a dream to tow with. Look at who tow caravans the most, travellers, they all have diesel vans. I used to tow with an E Class Mercedes, compared to the van, it is like chalk and cheese, towing with no rear waggle, no passing vehicle suck effect, right up to the 60 mph limit, in absolute, full control of the rig and loads of room to carry anything you want.
I work for a company in north Yorkshire that builds buses. 3 years ago we were told we were building no more diesels as electric was the future. Three years on we have NO orders for electric and plenty for diesels. A double decker with batteries is a failure ( too much air to push out of the way too heavy and too expensive) at best electric power is to be used around a city where its not far from the depot charging point. My nephew lives in Slough and tells me they're just too unreliable in turning up. Whats the point of a commercial vehicle being on charge more than its on the road!!
My brother in law works in the busses in Manchester, he said the same thing, the electric buses just don’t work.. again though, maybe the technology will get there.
Dead right, maybe it is time politicians stay out of transport and leave it to engineers. Meanwhile China is trumping every eco move we make, many times over in our small island. The world's poor in Asia don't give a damn about the climate and just want to live with food in their bellies and clothes on their back and what actions we take are futile and insignificant and causing national financial self harm for no global eco gain whatsoever.
If the industry wishes to survive in to the future then it must introduce vans that are more suited to EVs. Smaller and lighter is the way to go, not as per the current norm of wider and heavier. However convincing people to downsize their van to suit the new norm may be harder than convincing them to purchase an EV in the first place.
I don’t think we’ll need to go down the lighter route, as batteries get more powerful and quicker to charge there will be no need hopefully.
There are plenty of small light caravans around
@@stevebeever2442 While they do exist the are mainly niche, limited appeal units with, in many cases, ridiculous price tags. We need the mainstream manufacturers to offer more variation in this area.
@@atlanticcaravansUKNot sure about that, you reference Andrew Ditton, he moved from an Airstream to an Xplore Active when he went electric. On the battery front, although improvements will come they are currently small incremental changes. The constantly promised game changer cells are always 2 to 3 years away.
@user-rv8ri2bb3z There are many it's not a small niche. Not just an EV thing either. Most cars have been going with small piddly little engines for quite some time now
Without sounding a pessimist. Until MH are electric, it’s all wind .
Ev no chance, I will never buy one, a complete waste of money, The engine may not pollute, but building it the energy required, plus components, their carbon footprint is huge. I've heard the charging points there's a diesel generator in the field. Hydrogen fuel is way ahead.
So let me get this right, the dirt great caravan that is being built ( that needs to be skipped as quality is tosh) that needs a challenger 2 to tow it, stuck on the back of a plug in Noddy car that could burst into flame any second, caravan industry dead, soon will be at this rate.
@@jeremycarr3920 yeah, you can pretty much debunk all the comments you’ve made there if you had the inclination.. I’m not saying it’s viable at the moment, but it will be..
Thats is nonsense….Daily Mail fodder
@@atlanticcaravansUK yes the way technology is going I have no doubt, but by then will the EV be dead, in favour of something better, but I still feel the towable leisure caravan industry in the UK in its present guise is on its death bed, a mammoth industry wide rebirth is required, whatever form that takes I don't know.
Do some homework. You haven’t got a clue. Diesel generators in a field??
Have you got a bus pass ?
The economic justification for a caravan elusive. Buying owning an operating one ain’t cheap. Budget hotels and Airbnb are much easier and more comfortable.
I can see another video coming out of this, I get this comparison a lot with the b & b’s. It’s a totally different experience. It’s like a football fan going to watch the rugby. Both are ball games but are totally different experiences..
They wll be the death of everybody 😂
are you aware the chief electric director of mercedes said 2 or 3 years ago we might get another 20% out of battery tech but that's about all.
He’s not Chinese I take it… don’t reckon that’ll stop them trying.
My diesel car is less than 3 years old, so should be ok for another ten years, which is when we think our 22 van should be replaced. We will assess both our health (71 years old then) and is there a car and caravan available to suit our needs. Great video as always 😀
I don’t think it’s going to be an issue for anyone towing now, and for me selling either to be honest, and like I said, the technology is going to be vastly different by then anyway.
I agree Darren. The electric car of tomorrow will be vastly improved on todays. I intend to just enjoy my caravan and worry if and when I have to 😁
Solid state batteries are on the horizon for EVs, these will give them a 600+ mile range so based on current reviews which show you can expect around 50% of its range while towing, this will give any caravaner a 300+ mile range, more than enough for any caravanner, combine this with the fact that solid-state batteries can be charged from flat to full in just 10-15 minutes there really is no need for the doom and gloom
As you say at the moment its not quite where it needs to be but in the near future it will
That's Good To Know, Hope Your Right, Not So Much For Me Now , I'm Probably On My Last Tow Car, Maybe One More! if were lucky!!) Another Sorento!😁👍
Definitely, there is a massive push to get there from some serious players.
PMSL…you seriously believe this...??..however how far is your horizon...??...10 years...??...we'll be well into 'pay per mile' by then...caravanning...!!!...mugs game...however have a nice day.
@@markpavlowski7223 yes probably 10 years, I’m not going to be bothered after that to be honest..
Just after lock down I was going to buy an Opus ‘full Monty’ trailer tent - I’d even put down a deposit. I had a Toyota Corolla estate with 180 HP hybrid. I had to cancel the Opus because my car could not tow the weight. To pull the trailer, I would have had to buy a RAV4. How many people will want to sell their current vehicle and buy a new one as well as pay for a caravan. I used to work with an automotive consultancy, who wrote a paper for the government - their expert view was that the infrastructure for electric vehicles will take to at least 2040 to install. It may even take longer as technology changes, think of USB, USB2, USB C etc. Will the current infrastructure all have to change as the current charging points become obsolete? In the end, I sold my car and bought a new campervan with a drive away awning for more space. It was cheaper than buying a RAV4 and the trailer tent. Your channel is informative, thank you. PS: visiting various camp sites this year, the ratio of camper/RVs to caravans seems to be increasing.
If your a member of autohome recovery in the Northants area they will collect it and deliver it for a fee to the next site for you.
Ive been around scotland and its a disaster in an ev I have to use a 3pin plug on 4 occasions.
very positive . lets hope you are right thanks👍
The caravan won’t be killed off by EV,s. The infrastructure needs to catch up with the rest of Europe. Most charging stations on French motorways can accommodate vehicles towing. Many EVs can now manage 250 to 350 miles, no problem. What needs to improve is the towing capacity and the efficiency of EV,s when towing. However, it’ll be twenty years or more before ICE cars are in limited supply. What will kill all leisure motoring will be fuel costs, road charging and the cost of owning your own leisure vehicle. Thank the government for that.
Yes, it’s why I didn’t mention it in the first video, I don’t think it will be a problem, but judging by some of the comments there are people that do.
Whats cheap Green electricity at night never herd of it , the sun dosnt shine at night 🤔
Cow farts, find a way to catch them and we’re sorted..
@atlanticcaravansUK they want to ban them as well and make you eat insects instead. Lunatics !
The wind stops at night does it?
@@nealeTH yes the wind does stop at night , it's night time where I am at the moment and not a breeze at all its so quiet 😴 I'm fed up with greenies and their bullshit
@@davidmilledge221 29% of all uk electricity was generated by wind in 2023. That’s 29% less expensive gas to buy from other countries and better energy security for the uk.
Thanks for that it's very thought provoking. I'm not as optimistic about battery capacity but hopefully the future will bring some magic battery.
If there is money to be made, it’ll get there..
Perhaps having batteries as part of the caravan structure as we are seeing in newer ev’s. Imagine a full battery array, motors on each wheel, no gas bottles and cheaper single source powered fridges, heating, lighting etc. Driven range would be superb and just plug in on arrival. Manufacturers need to innovate.
They have been looking at various options, I just think there is no need to worry as the technology will give us what we need
@gary⁶mellor7997 The problem with that solution is weight, size and cost. I suspect that if the government could be persuaded to change the relevant laws, the number of vans sold would be tiny.
Not until we are forced into an EV will we have one, expensive to buy, and depreciation is alarming as some TH-cam vlogs show, people seem blinkered to the cost and effects purely building the batteries can have.
Motorway service drive-through charging points will just be full of other vehicles.
The caravan site infrastructure would also have to change massively to accommodate all the EVs.
We will be sticking to I C E as long as poss.
I don’t think we will be forced into anything, it’s not like they’re cheap to buy, the technology will be there to make it viable at some stage so there won’t be a need for infrastructure over and above traditional four courts converting to EV charging points that take the same amount of time to fill up as Cars currently do..
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Second hand EV market is very competitive. Easy to pickup one at a good price.
I have been towing faultlessly with an EV for over two years. The reality and the rubbish the print in papers couldn’t be more different if they tried. What most papers fail to describe is how much better they are at driving. And towing. An EV isn’t just like an automatic diesel car but with the engine swapped out. EVs are totally different - they don’t even have gears.
Just like in any car purchase, EV owners have bought an EV for all sorts of reasons. Some may have bought for lower local emissions but many haven’t. For many, the green aspect is irrelevant. Most EV drivers have bought he car because it is simply a better vehicle to drive, or they prefer the style, or they get a good deal, or they can save a load of cash by charging at home. And a million other reasons.
If you want to drive a diesel - go ahead. If you want to drive an EV - go ahead.
An EV is not going to work for everyone. It won’t work if you want to tow huge, twin axle white blocks. If you haven’t got a drive and cannot charge at home for example makes EV ownership much more difficult. It also depends what type of caravanner you are. If you tour or drive under 120 miles in a day (the data shows the majority of towing in one day is under 120 miles despite what people say) then you don’t need to charge on the way and an EV works fine. If you do an occasional longer trip, then an EV still works - just time your stop for lunch and charge while you are doing something else. If you only tow a 2000kg caravan for 600 miles at 75mph without stopping for 5 hours, then an EV won’t work for you. It is surprising how people actual do that. But then not all petrol/diesel cars are suitable for all people - a two seater petrol sports isn’t going to work for a family of four. And you aren’t be going to be towing a 2000kg caravan 600 miles at 75mph with a ford fiesta either.
There is a huge culture war stoked by the media to be anti-EV built on lack of facts that it is ridiculous. If people have the real facts, they can make real choices. And for many, EVs won’t be the answer. But for others, EVs are viable and a real option.If someone comes up to me on a caravan site and is genuinely interested, even if sceptical, I’ll happily have a chat. If someone comes over to lecture me on why EVs are evil and they cannot tow and they are impossible to charge (all untrue), particularly from people who have never even sat in an EV to parrot what they read in a paper, I don’t have the time. Just think about it - in what world is it okay to walk over to someone who you don’t know and have a go at them about their personal choice of car. Can you imaging VW petrol owners having a go at Audi diesel drivers just because they don’t like a car because of what they read. It is embarrassing.
There is a growing group of caravanners that tow with EVs and are very happy to do so. The group is still small compared to the whole towing population, but it is growing faster than people may realise.
Its wonderful to see EV's on sites no noise no fumes, I charge from Solar or cheap green electricity at night, 150 miles does not worry us as we need a break after 2hrs, more and more sites are getting chargers and on the MHCC you can charge from the van. The car has a low c/g and is wonderful to tow with your right the infrastructure is developing and we now have long bays at some locations, no more smelly dirty forecourts, at 80 I could not wait to try the EV experience and had the first EV 4yrs ago. Expensive to buy cheap to maintain and very cheap to run I would recommend to anyone. You should not worry about ICE cars they will be around until 2050 I suspect long after me.
@@robfee2065 I’d have a word with the chap who commented above, polar opposite to you..
An EV salesman dream. What is the payback time on the solar set up, 10-20 years? Good luck with charging with solar at night at home. We would need electric infrastructure 4 times bigger if we all went electric and would cost billions for the distribution network to be upgraded and still need a generating base load for when it's dark and the wind isn't blowing kept on standby so what's the point. Makes me wonder why Exxon Mobil are building hydrogen and low sulphur diesel plants to beat the band. You pay your money and take your chances. Buyers beware.
@@boombox2661 but when it is light solar is changing all the time, we can’t think of the now technology, like I said, it’s not good enough, but it will get there.
@@atlanticcaravansUK There is no power generated that we can store at a sensible cost, It must be used when generated. Only the small home setup power wall can be used to store at home. We will go nuclear by Rolls Royce building the turbines. All power generation from home solar not used goes back into the grid with very little payback as they don't want it. They will not transition to the next best thing overnight as EV's are a polished old💩that they will use to rinse money from unsuspecting customers before the transfer to the better technology that they already have. Exxon Mobil have a the technologically advanced engine/ fuel replacement back in the 1970 better than BEV but it was buried. The truth is the Gov want to get most of private cars including EV's off the road, this was decided back in the 1980's.
@@boombox2661We definitely don't need a grid infrastructure four times bigger. Don't forget the infrastructure and grid supply is adequate to supply incandescent light bulbs throughout the country. Light bulb consumption has gone down by about 90% since the incandescent days and the grid has still been built up since then.
Many people charge up at night when the industrial use is at its lowest hence the cheapest rates.
Where there is an issue is distribution where it's needed for EV charging and that's more to do with planning permission. Even if we need a little bit more it definitely won't be four times! Not everybody plugs in their car at exactly the same moment every day do they!