ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2019
- What exactly is the Thirty Meter Telescope, and why is the proposed location in Hawai'i such a conflict?
Hosted by: Hank Green
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Me: 30 meters is pretty big
Hank: 30 meters is the aperture
Me: 🤯
OH GOD!
Right?! That was my thought
And Europe is looking to build a 40m(131ft) one!
For reference, the space shuttle is "only" 37.2m(122ft) _in the long dimension!_
I am a noob
DynamicWorlds That’s crazy!
What happened to the British underwhelming naming scheme.
I could see them calling a 40m telescope the "Fairly Large Observatory".
I just want to see a "Bloody Huge Telescope"
You people are killing me! Hahaha... Stop! Hahahah....
@@sam08g16 Nah, the best telescope would be called The Titular Indigenous Telescope Site. ;-]
Telli McTelescopeface
I would think the “Lookie Cookie” would be a good name, but the Brits would refuse (they prefer biscuits)
Lookie Biscuit?
I just measured it again. It will fit in my backyard. Everyone will have to go through the living room (with the light carpet), so they will have to wipe their feet every time. Just a few restrictions: they can’t use the scope in the summer time, cause I have a lot of cookouts; no loud noises after 11; no use of lasers at anytime... I’ll write up a list.
sounds workable.... are you at 10,000 feet?
@@sleepy314 Small mirrors can make a big mirror, and I've got 10 friends at 1,000 feet...
@@sleepy314 Not a big deal they can just build a high platform and an elevator. That would also mean Greg won't be disturbed by any loud noises so win win
"no use of lasers" pretty much kills the deal already; lasers are frequently used for alignment or some such
pierrecurie It’s just that I have these cataracts in my eyes - doctor said “no lasers”. I suppose I could close my eyes, if they could give me warning (damn adaptive optics)
All these astronomers out here flexing their telescopes
Weird flex but ok 😂
DJ KHALET! WE DA BEST OPTICS
from across the universe I see you my ni##a
I KEEP SEEING YOUR COMMENTS BIG FOOT! why do you post so much?
My favorite name would still be the Goodenough Telescope
TellyMcTelescope
But... he has nothing to do with astronomy. He invented lithium ion batteries.
@@jerry3790 All elements come from the stars.
The Barbosa Telescope.
@@jerry3790 Mr. Very Large and Mr. Extremely Large are also no astronomers. Sounds more like adult videos. 😉
im hearing TMT....but i keep picturing ninja turtles.
Now I got that theme song stuck in my head.
Technically they'd just be Teenage Mutant Turtles.
it's the worlds most fearsome fighting telescope
Well he must be on the right track, after all he’s got a very green background.
TURTLE POWER!
That last remark Hank made about science and the complications of the real world make me think of archeology. They desperately want to find old pyramids to explain why and how old civilizations lived/died-off, but they are removing rainforests in Central America to do so. It can be a very difficult and fine line to walk to make everyone happy.
and grave robbing, but who cares. /s
It's actually not. If you can't get to them ancient pyramids without destroying rainforests, then just let them go until you can.
The rainforests, the environment, is infinitely more important then the Satisfaction some people will get from from finding and studying these pyramids. The environment is infinitely more important because it's important life, for human lives and animal lives.
Don't forget archaeologists digging up native artifacts from literal graves without consulting the still-around families first, and then acting like they've made a great discovery.
Uhhh… you made totally invalid comparisons here. And Egypt never vanished, she’s still alive and well.
i love astronomers, because, while every other field gives their devises and ideas super complicated names, astronomers are just like, "nah. a hole that dense enough to trap light? black hole. a star that pulses? pulsar. an extremely large telescope? take a wild fricken guess."
Thank you for covering this situation in a nuanced and respectful way. My family is native Hawaiian, though from a different island. One aunty of mine supports building TMT and another supports the protesters, both of them are educated women active in our local community, so yes, things are complicated. In our culture we hold our elders (Kūpuna) in very high regard so it is an emotional thing to see how much this matters to our Kūpuna, enough to be willing to be arrested and spend months on end on the Mountain. The way you covered the ongoing conflict shows so much respect to them no matter what ultimate outcome may come forth. Thank you.
@@ipissed You know it's possible to disagree with someone without being outright insulting right?
Worrying about dead people is asinine.
@@ipissed the telescope is illegal, outright
ipissed: Democracy isn’t a referendum to take away human and civil rights from citizens you despise. Indigenous Hawaiian people have a lawful claim to Maura Kea, but this telescope project doesn’t.
@@ipissed white people are not democratic in Hawaii, their nation was stolen from the Hawaiian people in an illegal coup and with force. Restore the Hawaiian independence from the USA
6:03: "So why is it possible for us to build a bunch of telescopes on it? Well, I mean this is SciShow, not HistoryShow, but we'll do our best"
I thought you were going to get John to do a special Crash Course World History episode about it.
Everyone’s talking about Ninja Turtles but I legit thought it said “TNT.”
Yeah that’d be pretty bad for Hawaii.
And they could broadcast image results on _Turner Network Television._ The first images back could be called _TNT Raw..._
bad either way. instagram.com/end_hate_in_hawaii/
Thanks SR Foxley, you are great for supporting this awesome show for so damn long!!!
You're welcome Zbionix! Thanks for watching it for so long! :D
Props on you SciShow. As someone living in Hawaii all my life, you summed up the situation quite well.
I agree as someone also in Hawaii
Same here as a resident!
same as a resident
Kau hale o Puna. It's about time one of these pop Sci stations decided to tackle this story. Good on ya.
@@PhysicsPolice * all * objections? lol
When you forget to choose a title for your amazing project and name it at the last second: The 30 m telescope. Great and interesting video
Scientists dont really care about pretty names and acronyms. That's the domain of the federal government. The feds spend millions of dollars to figure out cool acronyms.
30m _telephone_ ?
That's just lazy.
You could shout further than that ;)
@@massimookissed1023 thanks for pointing out my error 😊
Scopemaster 6000. less advanced than the Scopemaster 9000 but just as fun.
I wonder why nobody ever thought of VET : "Very Exciting Telescope"
As someone who was born and raised on the Big Island and has been following this debate from the beginning, I really appreciate this video. Thank you for not taking sides. Now, next time someone asks me why there's such a fuss about "some mountain" I can share this video. 🤙
Deena Ragan 🔺
Yes. I've seen vids/reports that just say that protesters claim the mountain is sacred and houses gods. Then just leaves it there for people to pick on. Most stories never talk about the real reasons behind the protests.
3000 young people leave Hawaii each year for better jobs & opportunities.
Protesting high tech / low footprint STEM jobs are not how to solve Hawaii's brain drain.
Meh it's Just a dead Mountain, the telescope Will be there sooner or later.
How will all of you feel if foreigners would want to build some structure for some scientific research on/over a site that's important to you? Maybe over mount Rushmore, or the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, or Arlington National Cemetery or some other very important memorial?
Aperture Science: We do what we must because we can, for the good of all of us, except the ones who are dead.
Yeah.... about that :/
There's no use crying over every mistake, and we'll keep on trying 'til we run out of cake!
Oh, _Apature._ I see what you, as in,
ok
The Vatican already has an observatory. Surely they would love an upgrade to an TMT.
Apollo SOL
But Lucifer is in Arizona, an inferior location.
@@vgil1278 The Large Binary Telescope (formely LUCIFER) doesn't belong to the Vatican. The Vatican operates the VATT, which is right next door. Lol.
Why not demolish one of the oldest telescopes in the mountain and build it there?
I am pretty sure the new master plan that was mentioned to enable TMT to be built included a stipulation to actually demolish several of the older telescopes to allow this one new one. That was a debatable stipulation to astronomers because they are still useful, but TMT was worth it. So it is in fact no longer a case of "just keep building them", they plan to decommission and remove older telescopes and the total number will decrease over time.
@@bsgcylon86 lol yeah and move hoku kea from one spot to another. Just this time it's gonna be at the bottom of Mauna kea, lol why can't y'all just stop building and go back to ameriKKKa where y'all came from?
Kalani Low ,in search for knowledge....raciest!
@@Hawijack LOL okay so then take it to the canary islands. The Native population said no and I guarantee you dont even know the true history of Hawaii. We're not telling yall yall cant build it; we're saying you cant build it here.
Hawi Jack take it canary’s
Those telescopes from Hammerfell use curved mirrors.... CURVED mirrors.
no lolly gaggin
Yeah, so does the fun house at the carnival .
@@paninisinabox Let me guess. Somebody stole your sweet roll?
@@johnwalker2147 So glad there's at least ONE other weirdo out there...
@@mgtowdadTH-camSucksCoxks nah. I played the first on on my aptiva bro. Also remember the scroll that jumped you from there to the other side of the map. Marrow wind. Sky rim. I have the map framed on my wall. I thought it was funny. I love all the video games . That's not the point. I can make my own curved mirrors in real life. Honestly I have just made a smelter that can melt fire brick to glass. Glass rope to glass. Sand to glass. Fire rated cement to glass.i enjoy video games alot. I enjoy real life alot more.
Comment summary:
50% - TMT = Teenage Mutant ninja Turtles
30% - rename the telescope RLT, FLO, OWL, LLT, etc
15% - random telescope jokes
5% - completely off topic
0% - discussion relevant to the video
2% comment summaries.
Humans at their finest
it’s so crazy how we’re ok with stepping on other humans for “the good of mankind”
Wow. The thirty meter telescope. That's. Really creative naming there. Yup. 👍 I thought the controversy was about that.
OoooO. A like from Sci Show. 😁
The European Space agency telescopes are called, "The Very Large Telescope" or VLT, "The Extremely Large Telescope" or ELT and "The Overwhelmingly Large Telescope" or OWL That last one got canceled because, well, it was just too big (budget wise).
XKCD has come up with new suggested names like "The Ludicrously Large Telescope", "The Telescope of Devastation" and "The Ultimate Telescope".
Scientists are just terrible at naming things. Always have been.
@@Thumbsupurbum , oh I dunno.
NASA seems to have a whole department dedicated to linguistically gymnastic backronyms.
@@Thumbsupurbum Well I mean yeah, look at the track record though. "Milky Way," "Local Group," and then alphabet soup for MOST of the objects we know anything about. heheh
A giant telescope in the Sistine chapel sounds kinda cool actually
Needs approval from over 8 sects though...
Haven't convinced them to remove a single ladder stuck since the 1500s...
@Evi1M4chine you really want to start a war, do you?
4:11 so... the middle of Antarctica when it’s not a skin peeling blizzard?
I don't know about elevation there, and I think that would limit the visual arc a bit, but if the engineering challenges can be worked out, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put one there later.
@@dynamicworlds1 There is telescope on South Pole already. Its actually great place to build one. The main problem I see are immense logistical challenges linked to such huge project on so remote site.
@@psykkomancz oh, I'm sure there are some kinds of telescopes there. I don't know about the requirements for this kind of telescope though, or if it has the kind of elevation they want.
If you want to point a telescope at the same spot in the sky for days at a time though, the poles are excellent, so there are advantages to building there too. It's all about tradeoffs and what you want to do with it.
Well they want it on the northern hemisphere for a reason, projects like the Event Horizon Telescope would be impossible if all the telescopes were built on Antarctica, no matter how large they'd be.
And yes, Hawai'i, Canaries and Baja are all on the northern hemisphere
Altitude is perfect, also Antarctica is technically a desert so I doubt there are many blizzards or any other metereological phenomena
Physical science professor told me about these years ago...said there’s another one to be built in the future called the “OWL”...OverWhelmingly Large telescope 😂
Yeah.. they balked at the price tag OWL would have and down scaled it to ELT.
OWL, which was intended to be 100 meter telescope, was eventually reduced to the 39.3-meter Extremely Large Telescope.
@@RaimoKangasniemi I thought that when they scaled down to ~40 meters, they kept the name OWL, but changed the meaning to "Originally Was Larger".
@@jdarmstrong7169 Well played. ;) :)
The indigenous Hawaiian people have been given shabby treatment by the US for decades. Their Queen overthrown, their culture suppressed and their lands stolen. The 'protectors' are not against science or TMT, they just don't think it should be built on their sacred mountain.
Build it on La Palma, all it' s scientific goals can be met there, TMT' s own research says so.
NB: I must confess that I am writing this from outside a bar on La Palma and I now live here!
This will forever be the “Teenage Mutant Telescope” in my head now.
change .org petition in the works.
What amazing precision to gather the relatively FEW of a faint star's photons available for detection. ALSO amazing to consider: that same # of that distant star's photons is detectable 20 yds to the left, 4,000 miles to the right, and at EVERY equidistant point in the universe with an unobstructed line of sight.view of, that same faint star. Even if the # of photons impacts/square inch is kinda low, those suckers are still EVERYWHERE!
God I love this channel. Shows every angle and concern over a controversial subject without forming an obvious opinion on it. This is how News stations need to be doing it. Hard facts, both sides of the story, no personal opinion. That’s how you let the audience make their own opinions, as human beings should do.
I'm just wondering why we don't have a moon based observatory yet.
The regolith alone would make construction a nightmare - but it's a definite possibility, if we choose to spend all the $$$.
Were would you put the septic lines and how would they get sandwiches?
@@davidburke1794 Maybe it should just wait until the moon is colonized. Also I bet that a pizza place would eventually deliver to the moon and then other businesses too.
There's a lot of things we can do with Earth-based telescopes... and, they're easier to fix (remembering Hubble's initially fuzzy vision). The moon has a synchronous rotational orbit, which means that a telescope would likely be constructed on the far side, where communication with Earth would be difficult.
There is a telescope on the Moon, sort of - it's small, 150mm aperture. It's on the Chinese Chang'e 3 lander. Moon is not really an optimal place to put a telescope on, if you are going to have a space telescope, keep it in space. Landing it on the Moon provides no benefit but causes lots of problems you have to deal with.
Serious question that might sound really silly: We build silly-huge sky-scrapers, sometimes just as a metaphor. I'm not saying a 4.2km tower with an observatory glued to the top would be reasonable, but would it really hurt to paste say, a 300m tower on top of a lesser mountain, and glue the observatory on top of that? Between existing hugegantic radio telescopes, particle accelerators, and all those other sciency mega-structures, and various things that've been shot into space for more science, I'm pretty convinced that as long as it's possible, something like that would just be a bit of a delay.
Professional grade telescope atop a 300 meter tower / building = wobble - wobble - wobble.
Stability in the mounting systems of large telescopes is a big deal. A very big deal.
Even 300 meter tall buildings sway inches with the wind. They “grow” on the side facing the sun and shrink on the shadow side, tilting the whole structure. They have a resonant frequency (frequencies) that needs suppressing from wind, ground and quaking effects.
Direct mounting to the ground is best (easiest, cheapest, least problems).
Nothing is impossible, including your idea. (More) Money solves everything.
Peace ✌️.
Ideally your telescope is in a building designed only for the telescope and no other purpose to reduce vibrations from everything. Any vibrations have to be isolated otherwise your telescope mirror and detectors pick it up and your stars go from dots to squiggles. Elevators are a common culprit. I have been at university telescopes where they are not properly separated and isolated from the rest of the building superstructure and moving elevators start the telescope vibrating. Putting it on top of a many story building you basically have to build a separate tower within a tower that only the telescope sites on, it becomes very expensive the taller you go.
Thanks! I feel a little silly for missing that factor, but the quest for a suitable mountain makes a lot more sense to me now.
Telescope Astronomy - where size really does matter.
Mahalo for covering this SciShow.
But just a correction, govenor Ige isn’t Hawaiian.
Also, the main issue with Mauna Kea is, there was never supposed to be anything built on it ever, nothing. That was the original deal with the university. They broke their deal and stepped outside the bounds of promising no development.
@bruh that's cringe of course we still have a voice. We are still here! and just curious, who told you that Hawaiiʻs population is almost fully Filipino? Yes, we have many Filipino transplants and many people with mixed Filipino heritage, myself included, but we are not replaced by Filipinos. Native Hawaiians are still here. Just like Native Americans are still here.
The Hawaiian Statehood Act and Constitution allows the land trust to be used for the good of the general public. Astronomy meets the special land use criteria.
Disappointing that the Uni hasn't managed the site well. I love the idea and science of a huge scope, but can understand the concerns of those against the project.
@@PhysicsPolice right - understood. Glad to hear your thoughts on that as I had only ever heard, when researching the TMT issue, that there was a bad record on the mountain when it came to looking after the place - but I can give no details as it was just blanket statements to that effect. My hope was that things had improved and that if TMT went ahead that there was a solid and comprehensive enviro/eco etc plan for construction and the continued operations. Is it true that there are those in opposition that do not want the scope at all, no matter the plan, reassurances, oversight etc? Cheers.
What evidence do you have the university hasn't managed the site well? Have you ever been there?
@@PhysicsPolice yes it is, which is disheartening.
Thank you for talking about this!!!!
Not good enough. I must have a Ludicrously Large Telescope!
Plad upholstery on the office chairs.
I'm born & raised in Hawaii. NO native Hawaiian practices the religion of ancient Hawaiians.
If they are religious they're probably Protestant.
So it's all about identity.
Plus the “source of fresh water” thing sounds kinda important
1hourOfLove dude not trynna be offensive but that statement is wrong I know plenty of native Hawaiians who practice ancient Hawaiian traditions and religion. I’d say more than half the people I know believe in the Hawaiian gods and goddesses. And yes the identity is a part but not the only part.
@@daonlydarknight7254 Less than 1% of Hawai'i practices the ancestral polytheistic religion. In 1819, King Kamehameha ended kapu and banned idolatry. The Hawaiian Kingdom became a Christian country. Now, Hawaii is mostly Christian, atheist, etc.
@@Abdega The TMT is designed as an environmentally friendly, zero waste facility. All waste water is captured in a double-hulled waste container, transported off the mauna via truck and safely disposed of off site. All the pipes are double-hulled. They employ leak detection systems, daily leak inspections and are trained in spill containment and recovery. Modern scopes no longer use hazardous materials, like mercury. The TMT is being constructed in a cold, high altitude alpine desert. Much water gets trapped as ice under the surface. Based on geochemistry, it takes 2,000-5,000 years for summit water to percolate through thousands of feet of rocks and volcanic ash. Volcanic ash is natures best filter due to it's ionizing effect, which breaks down and neutralizes contaminants. The aquifer system contains its own microbiology that digests hydrocarbon contaminants, such as petroleum products. The TMT is being constructed in an area where lava dikes also contain or hinder contaminant dispersal. It sits thousands of feet above the aquifer. It doesn't pose a legitimate threat. The protesters are overeacting.
@@Abdega sorry. this is actually a fake scare mongering tactic spread by the protestors. There is absolutely NO water source threatened by the tmt. It has undergone EXTENSIVE water analysis, and besides, mauna kea unique geology makes it impossible for a spill to seep into the water table.
don't get sucked into some of the lies spread by this movement. They've also spread lies claiming the tmt will use a nuclear reactor LMAO!
www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts/tmt-supporting-environment/aquifer/
Great video on an important topic. Small correction: the JWST will not be hiding in the Earth's shadow unlike what was mentioned at 4:20
I appreciate your respectful handling of this topic. Top notch.
I know this would be a logistical and economic nightmare but I'd love to see a telescope on the far side of the moon
Hold up. Did you just say that 40 meters is about 9 meters bigger than 30 meters? I suppose that's about right....
That's right Morty, 5 times 9 is at least 40...
An array of hexagons does not have a precise radius.
Just like how most people on earth right now are dead
@@Gay_Priest due to the exponential growth rate, this isnt actualy true, the living slightly outweigh the dead at this point.
profwaldone naw, they still outnumber us 9 to 1 if you go all the way back. A zombie apocalypse would really suck if it included skeletons
so, why does it have to be on Hawaii? I get that you have to build it on top of a mountain to have less atmosphere above it. And they want to build it in the Northern Hemisphere But it's not like Mauna Kea is the only mountain in the Northern Hemisphere.
Mauna Kea is the best location for a large earth telescope in the northern hemisphere that observes in the visible and IR spectrum.🌈 It has many excellent features that make it perfect for astronomy:
- high altitude that sits above the inversion line (above clouds)
- extremely dry air that is great for adaptive optics; there's little distortion from water vapor (alpine desert)
- the air is extremely calm in the atmosphere because there's a constant trade wind blowing
- since it's on the equator, you can view the northern hemisphere of space and a good portion of the south
- the massive volcano shields the observatories (and island) from damaging storms
- extremely low level of light pollution, chemical pollution and other airborne particles (like dust and sand)
- reduced atmospheric distortion due to 40% less oxygen and air pressure
- has very good weather with a large window of observation (300 days)
- On a good weather night, you can operate 50% of the time in mid-IR range
- very easy to access the mountain due to gentle slope and terrain
- located in a geographically and politically stable location
- readily available access to a technological workforce
- close proximity to civilization, social infrastructure and logistical support
Mauna Kea is very special. The Canary Islands are nice, but the window isn't as clean. It's extremely hard to find a mountain like this🗻. It provides the clearest space window into the lewa lani.
Mauna kea is one of the best places to do astronomy on the entire planet.
It has to be both a really tall mountain, a really dry mountain, and relatively shallow slope and flat top mountain. Ideally not so remote there are no roads, airports, or cities within reasonable distance so cost and operation does not become a deal breaker. Which turns out to be a rare combination. Sure lots of tall mountains exist in North America, but most of them experience really harsh winters with tons of snow and really high winds. Most really tall mountains are also pretty steep, Mauna Kea being a stratovolcano built of that really low viscosity Hawaiian lava is huge but shallow so it is possible to build a road to the top. Finally, they could build it in a different country (Canary Islands was mentioned), but my guess is the US institutions building it and government money funding it would rather it stay within US Territory if possible.
The Canary Islands is almost as good but noooo, let's piss off the elders here instead.
@@sunnysied713 Hawaii on the equator? You better check your geography.
Excellent episode on a complicated topic!
Nicely done. Despite your protests of there being a lack of detail, that was an excellent primer.
Agree. Great job. I learned a lot of the complexities regarding this decision.
I do believe it should be built, though. There have been numerous offers and compromises made by the scientific community in an attempt to get this telescope built in Hawaii. Including (I think?) deconstruction of 5 other telescopes on the mountain. A lot of $$ is also being given annually to fund other educational, cultural, and environmental efforts.
Build it, or lose it to another country that would welcome the construction jobs, prestige, permanent technical jobs, annual donations & fees, increased tourism, and just plain bragging rights for having emplaced this amazing instrument.
they should have made it thirty meters and nine-tenths... ya know, so they could call it TMNT telescope?
cuz we all know how much science can't resist a good pun.
also to take a stab at the america system.
It's only 3 quarters of the turtles
And it's missing michelangelo
...
bad move, there's no party without mikey
There's a reference to the Sistine chapel telescope in here somewhere.
I like the bit of history thrown in, should take this approach as a regular thing!
"It's called the thirty meter telescope"
Hmm, what's the big deal, sounds like it's fairly average.
"It refers to the size of it's aperture"
🤯
It's like asking a fisherman how big the biggest fish was he ever caught and then he stretches out his arms to the maximum and says, "like this".
"Well, that's not sooo big", you reply.
"That was the diameter of his eyes", he then says.
Me: Is this episode about turtles?
Hank: No, it’s about telescopes.
Me: Ok.
Also what’s with Hanks obsession with butt legs?
What's a butt leg
Butt is legs.
It seems the simple solution is to just move the damn telescope.
Foreal wasting so much years already lol
Something like 4 years worth of battling?
"Take the island, and push it somewhere else"
I cannot wait to see the pictures that come out of these!
Yes!! From the canary islands in Spain I'm sure they would find amazing things
Yeah from the canary islands in Spain I'm sure they'd find some amazing things
Awesome content.
Let the public choose the name... Perhaps: Telly McScopeFace?
now I understand the enthusiasm of ACDC: "I'm TMT, I'm dynamite!"
Sun Hat I’m tmt, I’m a power load
Thank you Hank, one of your best.
Putting a telescope on the Sistine Chapel sounds awesome!
As a wise crab once said, "The Human world... it's a mess"
Next step : Humongously Large Telescope.
Or, Halt! 🤚
For short!
The "Jesus H Christ that's f'ing ridiculously large" telescope.
Thank you for this video. You did well Hank. 🕊
science, history and geography. Triple threats. I love this channel!!
The TMT is the turtles before they became ninjas. :P
Just went there, love how theres so much scientific locations are there
US: Hank went over some of the downsides to that, if you watched the whole video.
Sandra Streifel Yeah, I understand there’s a management problem,l, but being a first time visitor, I was fascinated by how many scientific installations and presence there were. Outside of a university town, it’s kind of rare to see so much Astronomy and USGS signs there were. The little village they got at the base of Mauna Kea was really something as well
if these protestors have their way, it will slowly usher in the death of astronomy in hawaii.
Always interesting, thank you.
I like your hair cut Hank, you look really handsome. Thank you for educating me about telescopes and the future of space exploration.
I do like videos of more than 10 min n one topic!
Welp, ya covered the most of the pros and cons fairly so i'll say this video did it jobs well
I'm glad you guys took the time to address many of the issues associated with this large and complex issue! Good job
Why not Northern Canada? Build it in the Rockies in Northern BC, or in Alaska. There's almost nobody living out there, it's high altitude, it's cold. Meets all the requirements without risking being on top of a sacred volcano.
Amazing content
I wonder whether aliens will sue us for harrassement?!
Not if we pixel out the wobbly bits.
One point not made is that by using lots of small mirrors to make a large telescope, the segments can be controlled and moved to counteract the effects of atmospheric distortion. Adaptive Optics take a known light source, reflect it off the atmosphere and measure the distortion. Using piezoelectric controllers on each segment, the mirrors can be moved and adjusted multiple times per second, in order to produce the exact opposite distortion, thus producing a clearer image.
I can't wait for the inevitable AFGT. The "Absolutely F***ing Gargantuan Telescope" =P
Colossal university nighttime telescope
Q: Where do you want to work? Hawaii or the high desert of Peru?
Astronomer: You're kidding, right?
TMT covers the northern hemisphere of space (and a sizeable chunk of the south). ELT covers the southern hemisphere.
Thank you, as a native Hawaiian and a fan, your research into our predicament and attempt to inform the world of it is appreciated
the european project managers must feel good for snagging chille for their 40 meter one :D
Middle of Australia ticks a lot of boxes, however its below sea level. That far in shouldn't be an issue. Unless it doesn't face in the right direction in the night sky.
Can’t they take down an outdated telescope to build the new one?
That would be like replacing the Sistine Chapel for scientists.
Joshua Jarvis no one wants to pay for it
@@dalocalman The astronomers have agreed to remove FIVE telescopes in exchange for ONE new one. The TMT conservation district use permit legally requires that they get removed. It's a great compromise!
@@eljanrimsa5843 Three scopes are getting removed by 2024 and two more by 2033. The scientists know how to compromise. The protesters do not. They want ALL telescopes removed from the mauna by 2033.
TMT sounds like a fifth ninja turtle who didn't make it to the TMNT because he was skipping training all the time...
Who on earth is SR Foxley? This guy is top donation in pretty much every video
4:30 Webb has a primary mirror of 6.5 meters, not 8, though I do understand the desire to round up because yes bigger is better.
Actually, the most controversial telescope is the one I have facing my neighbour's bedroom window.
Yj k
ick. It isn't controversial. Everyone agrees you are a perv.
Bahaha
Yes, must be careful not to upset the boogie man in the sky.
*It's actually a woman for once: Poli‘ahu. I'm torn on respecting the culture, religion, and ecological damage, but simultaneously...
Well, I wish a proposal to decommission and remove several older telescopes in exchange wasn't equally controversial.
great video
This was some tea I was not expecting to hear
Wow, I just clicked on it and scrolled to the comments... didn’t realize it came out a min ago!
I don't think JWST is going to in the shadow of earth. It is going to "orbit" around the L2 point. Meaning it will hardly be in the shadow of the earth.
And that's why the multi layered sun shield is being used.
Yeah, for a science communicator that was bad...
I just visited the island, very crazy seeing people camping out blocking traffic in tents and piles of trash like bums to try to stop people from building a telescope. If only they would work a real job instead of breaking in tourist rental cars
San Pedro Martir in Baja California! It has a lot of potential for more astronomical observatories in the future.
Next telescope will be called the even more largerest telescope.
Idc if it's for cultural purposes... just build that scope!
Why not build it in Spain after all and build it on a bit of an extra artificial elevation, 18 metres is not that much, we build blocks of flats 3 times as tall en masse - I could easily imagine that you could build such a tall block and include in it extra stuff, possibly even accommodations for the scientists to live in? Maybe even arrange a small village in a large building around the telescope being on the roof of that building.
We haven't ever thought about this place, but please let us build another telescope
Oh, they put a lot of thought into protecting and preserving Mauna Kea's environment, ecology and culture.
As a native Hawaiian, I can tell you that we really don’t give a big, hairy coconut where you build it.
As long as it's not built here in Hawai'i lol
Let's look at environmental conditions that must be met.
1. North Hemisphere
2. Cold
3. Clear Weather
4. No light pollution
I suggest Alaska. It's a no-brainer.
You also need extremely dry air (desert conditions), stable airflow, good weather year round, elevation above the clouds, accessibility, available support infrastructure, low chemical pollution and dust particulates, and so on). It's a lengthy shopping list. These mountains aren't easy to find.
You assume there isn't already a giant telescope secretly in the Sistine chapel.
I might be an idiot here, but if you wanted to build one on earth, wouldn’t somewhere like Everest Base Camp be the best? It’s pretty high up, it’s cold, not a ton of light pollution, etc.
8:44 Well, why should they trust them a *third* time???
11:47 maybe the university should work on their mistakes, and maybe do some outreach and help native species and habitats, and understand and listen to the local and native population better
Yeah, with that much broken trust, the propper thing to do would have been to meet up with native and environmental groups and agree to a neutral 3rd party observer.
Repairing trust requires taking the initiative to do work you probably could have gotten away with not doing and putting yourself in a position where things might not go your way.
@@dynamicworlds1 yeah. deciding instead to go to a legal system which also does not exactly have a good track record really did not help their standings.
They did.
In court hearings.
For years.
TMT won.
Protestors are on the wrong side of the law,
Unless, of course you believe them when they talk about illegal occupation of Hawaii, in which case Hawaii becomes China's property.
@@eliasednie3816 *gasp* courts siding with well financed institutions dominated by european decedents instead of fairly poor and not well politically connected natives? well, it must be above board?
Sorry, but the US court system has a long and pretty nasty history of not respecting any law that might benefit natives when money is involved, so I can not blame the local groups for being skeptical at the court siding with the university. The courts, while they SHOULD be a neutral 3rd party, historically have not been.
@@PhysicsPolice yes, a study has been done _by the organization that both wants to build the telescope and has a history of breaking of trust in the past._
Even if it was done legitimately, it's really not hard to understand why people would be skeptical of what amounts to "we checked it out and found what we want to do is ok" from an organization they have good reason not to trust.
You keep asking what I want when I am just explaining some basic social intelligence things about how rebuilding broken trust does take going above and beyond what would be strictly required with some humility expecting to not be trusted until that has been earned and am just asking you to try and see things from the perspective of others too.
I'd rather they built the TMNT - The Teenage Mutant Ninja Telescope
How about they rename it the Thirty Meter Narcissistic Telescope (narcissistic due to the large mirror, and Narcissus falling in love with his reflection)
A Telescope in the Vatican would be GLORIOUS
The Vatican is a man-made city, not a giant, naturally created volcano. Ironically, the Vatican has been operating telescopes for hundreds of years. They're more ahead of the times than the protesters.
It is not the size of your telescope it's where u put it ! Hahaha...