The new website is absolutely brilliant Paul! The customise your cab section and hearing the speaker choice is a great idea and really helpful. All the best. Jonny
Thank you for being around guy’s, you continue to help in major sound decisions…which ain’t cheap n’ easy. Too bad you’re on the other side. But anyhow, you’ve been a big help. Blessings and hallelujahs
This was such an informative video! I was quite surprised at how all the models in these clips have different, yet useful, sounds. The 4x12 has a low-end "chug" that no other configuration can match...but sadly, I live two floors up! A separate head with a 1x12 or 2x12 is a great compromise though. I really like your new cab customisation tool too: a lot of thought clearly went into it. Well done!
Best cabinet switch I ever made was going from a 4x12 to a Zilla 2x12 Fatboy with a Vintage 30 and a Creamback 75H. Still got some weight to it but nothing like a 4x12. To be honest the physical size made the most difference, so much easier getting the thing into the car and venues. Will now check out the new website!
Very informative. Love my fatboy cab - It's a great compromise coming from a 4x12. This direct comparison reaffirms how particular cabinet designs are better for certain scenarios - in a practical and sonic sense.
Thanks mate. I think we actually dropped the ball a little with one of the tracks, we played a low gain nice open sounding tracks and I think it actually sounded better with the Small Vintage than the Fatboy, kind of affirming your point that certain cabs for certain styles/scenarios. Thanks for watching.
I love a 4x12 and I like pine cabs too, in fact I've just made myself one, and I reckon I'll be putting neo creams in there too. 45lbs is great, massive sound and super light.
Let me tell you something. The producer/engineer would often EQ the bass of a cabinet, so a smaller cabinet can sound more focussed in a mix with less EQ needed. IIRC Fender made some amp/cabs out of solid pine a couple of times, ply will warp less in less favourable climates though. If the use is for studio only then weight isnt as much of a problem... and if the cab needs to be a 1x12 then there are mic'ing options internally and from the rear.. tube mics and ribbon mics on the front help. You guys are fantastic - wish more people knew about you.
I have reduced the weight AND improved the sound of my 4x12 by removing two speakers. It's 25% lighter, sounds less boomy and more open, is quieter so you can crank the amp more, and yet keeps the look of that big cab under a Marshall head, because nothing looks right under the Marshall head other than a 4x12.
Awesome vid ! Who is the Player ? Sounds absolutely killer 🔥 I was surprised who good the pine cabinet sounds, never had one. Might be a cool option Rawk on, greetings from Germany Philipp
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. We used a few different players for this one, they should be in the description. Pine cabs can be cool, I prefer birch but the pine cab in this video is actually one of mine... it's always fun to bring it out every now and then.
Great video! What about a 1x15? I mean obviously there are still gonna be compromises, but I wonder if a Fullback matched to a good amp, or a thoughtfully EQ'd signal through one of EVM's 15s could get you back into 212 territory for someone who needs something smaller and can handle a bit more weight?
Thanks I'm glad you like it. I'm getting really in to 1x15s, and we have an EVM 15 here, as well as a few other really cool 15s. We'll be putting more stuff out on 15s soon all being well.
This is a cool video. It is interesting to think about picking a cabinet where weight is the limiting mechanism as I don't do "gigging" and I haven't looked at what options affect weight. But here's my take on the options compared: In the first example, I much prefer the 4x12. 2nd, Small Vintage. [for these 1st 2, there seemed be something missing from the other cab...missing low end in the 2x12 in the 1st example and missing high end in the 2nd] 3rd, I found the birth better, but it was close. [less harshness in the high end]. 4th I much prefer the V30s over the cream backs. [there is what seems to be some "umph" missing and something less good in the high end]. So for me it's a mixed bag with correlation between weight saving vs preferred tone. The cabinet changer is super cool... I'll have to check that out.
Loved this video, but creambacks and v30s are very different, would’ve loved to hear a comparison between neo-creambacks and regular creambacks. Would totally make a 2x12 cab with neo-creambacks for live use.
Everything matters. Most difference come from the dimensions and construction. Then material matters as well. Speaker choice is as already established crucial. Creamback Neo is a good speaker. Only it lacks on sensitivity. For V30 lowers it doesn’t deliver that top end and middle that they crave. On the other side their side Celestion has the Copperback. It sounds completely different and it is 400 grams heavier. But it is Celestion light weight version of the EV 12L. In the Thiele Small cabinet with its 250 Watt rating and 100 dB/W/m it can makes some noise. Do not expect speaker breakup though. Still it is fascinating how much SPL you can get out of such a small cabinet (pun with small not intended 😊). That’s lightweight 1x12 that can take even Marshall Major on. Now we are talking about classic guitar cabinets that essentially try to stop baffle vibration and in somewhat block front and back side of the cone. Then we talk about ported cabinets and good open back cabinets that can act similar to ported cabinets if they are designed good. But often forgotten type of classic cabinet is super light and has low end. Especially it has more than anyone who understands speaker cabinets would think it’s capable off because of use of thin boards and relative flimsy construction. Anyone recognized what cabinets am I referring to? Fenders floating baffle tweed era combo cabinets. Look at the most popular Fender Deluxe 5E3 Tweed 1x12 narrow panel cabinet. Originally made from red wood. Very thin baffle and back panels. Baffle just held in place with loose 5 screws no glue and not a thigh fit at all. Plus open back. Plus it is not that big nor that deep. Super light. For all of those construction “fails” it should have no bass at all right? Baffle moving and small cabinet it should be awful. But it has bass and it does sound bigger than it is. How come? Well back in those days engineers have had to work with what they have had. They played with it until they were able to tune floating baffle with the open back so they cancel energy loss in vibrations and actually amplify low end reproduction. It’s close to miracle but it works. They pulled it off with other speaker sizes and speaker numbers. But somehow people went to other construction methods and materials. I bet you guys in Zillacabs could make good version. I have even better idea but let’s save it for later 😊
My favorite part about this comparison was that they all had different sounds. I'm assuming you used a re-amp box and swapped cabs? Excellent demonstration 👏
Do you ship to Croatia? And what are the shipping prices and other tax. Would love a nice versatile vertical 2x12 still have no idea what model would be best for me. But don't know of any other popular cab builders that are inside of the EU. Only scared about the shipping prices and tax and if thr cab would survive the long trip to here hahaha 😅. But love what you guys do!
Hi, thanks for getting in touch. We've shipped quite a few cabs to Croatia, it's fairly straight forward. If you head to our website we've got a programme up there that allows you to build your own spec cab and in most cases listen to it too. If you click the EU flag in the top right corner it will work out the correct price and shipping and let you now details on taxes too. Send us an email if you have any questions, I'm more than happy to help. Paul
@@ZillaCabs Many thanks, average prices of your 2x12 vertical cabs after shipping tax and whatever else? Also wondered in your teams opinion is it worth pairing different speaker combinations if I will be micing up my cabs live with one mic only? I know that acoustically there would be a benefit but I have idea what else.
@@SmoothToast39 all the prices are on there. If you are thinking about mostly playing live then maybe go for a pair of speakers, mixing still works but that's up to you.
I was surprised at the way the birch helped the midrange over the pine. Expected the low end to be the only difference. One thing I've been wondering about lately, I have one amp, the Maz18, hooked up to a closed back stereo 2x12, and the speaker on the right is my favorite, the Mojo 25m, so I like to isolate it most of the time. This is a dual mono setup, and that amp is set to be my midrange. The Deluxe takes care of top- and bottom-end and reverb; the maz is my midrange push. So I don't have to care as much about loss of girth on that amp from different configurations. Anyway, point is, I've been wondering about whether to detune the cab altogether, I know some people do it, but being a hifi guy I am reflexively opposed to front ports that aren't properly tuned lol Why not just make it into a transmission line cab lol I just figured it's probably a fairly common question, maybe not, idk, but that I don't really have the resources for a proper a/b but you do, if the topic seems video-worthy to you. Because that amp is so good that I want to take it places instead of the studio plexi, but what a pain it would be to lug around the pedal board, the deluxe reverb, the maz18, and its cab. In a single-amp rig with the maz, having the mojo V on the left to hook into for higher gain sounds, the mojo M on the left for everything else, and the combination of both for a closed-cab option as well, may not be worth lugging a 2x12 around if only having one speaker hooked up sounds no better than simply having an open back 1x12. Sorry for the life story lol Complicated questions take complicated setups.
I think the difference between pine and birch is more apparent in the room too. Pine can sound great but generally birch ply (assuming you use a good quality birch and the right type) is more controlled, so better for some styles. With your porting issue/dilema.... I don't really know what to say as hifi is quite different to guitar. Guitar sounds and what works is generally not right from a hifi point of view so it may be hard for you to settle on something there. When it comes to a transmission line cab they are generally harder to make, heavier and more expensive... mix that in with often theres a fair bit of tweaking in a ported cab for guitar and so many opinions on what sounds best anyway that they aren't that common. Does that make sense.
@@ZillaCabs Oh it was more of a joke lol guitar cabs are meant to resonate and be part of the sound, whereas only a hifi enclosure would get things like tuned porting and poly fill. I’ve designed and built hifi speakers a few times so I totally understand the difference, I was just illustrating that, if I unhook the maz from the deluxe, I’ll have to think about what is happening with the low end when I unhook the left speaker and let it act as a passive radiator. Which means the question becomes, would it be worth the trade off of fewer configurations and a smaller enclosure, to simply change the maz to a 1x12 when it’s not part of a dual mono rig.
Something that was overlooked in this vid....castors! If the cab has an option for it, great, but if not, they can be added afterwards and it means you dont have to lift the cab for most of the transportation. just stairs etc.
Neo Cream back is the Oriverb speaker, it;s an aggressive midrange speaker with a pretty flat frequency response compared to the vintage 30 which is scooped. This scooped sound is why a tube screamer is usually paired as a boost, to bump up the midrange. No need for a tube screamer with the Cream Backs.
@Zilla Cabs: you mention material affects the tone, I am wondering how an MDF back affects the sound of a cab? I notice especially Marshall uses MDF for its backs in at least the Studio series vertical 2x12 and for the backs of its combos…
first example had a quad against a 2x12. are they the same speaker? the quad is scooped and the twin mid heavy and lower bottom end. 2x12 would be better suited in a mix. You can tame mids to suit, but it's harder to add something that's not there in the quad. if same speaker, goes to show how much the actual cab makes a difference.
It was actually the same speaker as I remember but that wasn't necessarily the point, it was more to give a board comparison that a 2x12 can keep up with a 4x12 in certain cases. Thanks for watching.
@@ZillaCabs kind of what i was getting at too. a 2x12 cuts nicely in a mix, more focused. i have a 4x12 and a 2x12. my 4x12 is smoother and open and sits in a mix nicely, but the 2x12 cuts with a heavier mid. it really depends on your goal for a gig, and also the sound of the room/stage. one box may sound better due to room.
I went from one of yours 1x12 fat baby cabs to a one of your vertical 2x12 and in comparison was skinnier than the 1x12. Honestly the 1x12 smoked the 2x12 as it had a lot less depth and resonance. Wish I never traded that 1x12 haha but I now have a super fat boy 2x12 and it’s perfect 👌
Some people like pine for heavier styles. Personally I prefer a slightly more controlled sound and generally you get that more from birch ply, but it is all subjective.
The fatboy vs small vintage comparison was really interesting, I'd love to hear some 'in-between' cabs (i.e. 12mm ply FB, 15mm ply SV, with and without sound post, etc) to hear where the tonal shifts occur. Have you ever played around much with other types of internal bracing or damping? I'm currently planning to build a cab(s) and this looked like a way to get something unique without breaking the bank (even if it takes me more time to make).
One thing you should try is 1) get rid of the baffle (replace it with thin wooden braces), so the resonance coming from the back of the cab will be more present. 2) Replace the useless back of the cab with a spruce soundboard (similar to a grand piano sounboard), then, 3) connect the back of the speaker to the spruce soundboard with some spruce pieces sqeezed in, putting the soundboard under pressure. This is my patent free suggestion. Nobody has tried it before, not because it's expensive, but because cab makers are simply stuck in the past.
No… the reason no one has tried that particular idea is that it makes very little sense if you know anything about the subject 😂 it’s certainly inventive, but not a good idea. that said you are correct in guitar cab manufacturers being stuck in the past. Bass cabs are light years ahead. If you want to check out some modern tech in guitar cabs look up barefaced, a bass cab manufacturer that went into guitar cabs. They have a very interesting design that does some of the things you wanted with your original idea.
So, the purpose of a fully enclosed speaker is to contain the rear wave, which is in anti phase with the front wave and so will cancel it out. If the rear wall of the speaker is allowed to resonate, then some of this rear anti phase wave will escape, but only at the certain frequencies that match these resonances. What you'll end up with, is a very lumpy, uneven frequency response. It *might* sound good, but it probably won't, unless you spend *a lot* of time carefully tuning the back panel, the way a violin maker might tune the plates of a violin. That's simply not practical, nor is it necessary. The alternative options: a ported enclosure, where the resonance of the port can very easily be calculated; or a passive radiator, which can be tuned by adding or removing mass from the dummy speaker. But those aren't used in guitar cabs, because they just don't sound as good as sealed enclosures.
@@Mikey__R The anti phase is never a problem when you use a thin spruce soundboard. It's the whole speaker being resonating. There are guitarists who actually prefer the sound coming from the back of the cab, cranking the volume, with the back of the speakers facing the public. A grand piano without soundboard will sound still like a piano, but colder and weaker, a violin or a guitar without belly will sound still like a violin or a guitar, but colder and weaker (see yamaha silent violin or silent guitar for example). A soundboard it is there to color the sound in a good way, spreading it in all direction, but you need to put it under strong tension only in a small area (examples, bridge of violin or bridge of piano). If you screw a speaker to a soundboard you are actually doing the wrong thing, because it's like dropping a couple of bricks on it, dampening the whole soundboard. That's why I am suggesting those three steps above.
The cabinet walls can add or detract from the sound of any speaker. Stiff, non-resonant material that is thick enough for the job at hand is best, IMHO. Non-void 3/4" plywood, for example for musical instrument enclosures. However, when it comes to classic musical instrument cabinets, all bets are off.
I'm probably a minority here, but personally, I thought the small vintage was the best sounding cab. The bottom end was more focussed, less muddy. Way clearer for guitar!
@@ZillaCabs the ones at 4:20 and 4:25, what I mean is the Fatboy sounds like there's a hefty low pass filter on it, similar to moving the mic a good bit further out. I struggle to believe that the size of a cab can result in such a massive high cut! >-> Just wanted to double check with you guys that there's nothing else going on 😅
Yeah it is close mic so in the room you will feel more impact from the 4x12. I think 4x12s are mostly for moving air and giving a thud. 4x12s are a lot of fun, we just wanted to show that you can get a lot of the way there with the right 2x12 too. Thanks for watching.
The difference in sound between the 2x12"s was negligent (as in, not enough to justify a price difference or an upgrade) as expected. Going from 4x12" to 2x12"will make a bigger difference then changing the plywood. Also, the distance between speakers will make a bigger diffrence then changing the materials of the cab while keeping the same materials. The same happens when you swap pickups in an electric guitar, hardly ANY justifyable difference. If you change the distance between the pickups and the bridge it will make a difference/impact on tone (bigger then you expect from swapping a PAF to a high output P.U.) The ideal speakercab (is also very impractical) is made of concrete or a different rock type, with a HUUUUUUGE mass. Mass is everything. Same goes for guitars. Flimsy guitars are terrible. Heavy guitars (and I don't mean the shape) will sound better. You want ALL the energy of the vibrating string to be transfered to the P.U., not the wood (toanwood is a grade of wood, not some magic EQ mystery) Anywho, carry on with the toneseeking. I love video's like this.
Wood type is more apparent in the room but baffle rigidity is one of the biggest things in a cab for sure./ We'll be doing some videos on that. Thanks for watching.
There’s more to it-If you stand in front of a full stack it’s 8 speakers-although mine is 6 and there is something to having more speakers -maybe you know what that is?
How do you feel about lightweight cabs? Let us know below!
Design your next cab at www.zillacabs.com
The new website is absolutely brilliant Paul! The customise your cab section and hearing the speaker choice is a great idea and really helpful. All the best. Jonny
Excellent, thanks Jonny, that's really kind of you, glad you like it.
Thank you for being around guy’s, you continue to help in major sound decisions…which ain’t cheap n’ easy. Too bad you’re on the other side. But anyhow, you’ve been a big help. Blessings and hallelujahs
Thanks I'm glad you like what we are doing here. You know we ship all over the world, it's not too bad.
Love the fact that Highway Jones by Cry of Love is being used in demos now❤
This was such an informative video! I was quite surprised at how all the models in these clips have different, yet useful, sounds. The 4x12 has a low-end "chug" that no other configuration can match...but sadly, I live two floors up! A separate head with a 1x12 or 2x12 is a great compromise though. I really like your new cab customisation tool too: a lot of thought clearly went into it. Well done!
Thanks mate, I'm glad you like it, it's really nice of you to say that.
The new website is fantastic!
Thanks Dan, really appreciate it.
This is a fascinating video that only has certainly given me a lot to think about. Nice one.
Thanks mate, glad you found it helpful.
@@ZillaCabs The configurator is fantastic!
I'm happy with my current 2x12, however - it's not perfect... Now... You've given me food for thought!
Best cabinet switch I ever made was going from a 4x12 to a Zilla 2x12 Fatboy with a Vintage 30 and a Creamback 75H. Still got some weight to it but nothing like a 4x12. To be honest the physical size made the most difference, so much easier getting the thing into the car and venues. Will now check out the new website!
Thanks mate, that's great, I really appreciate it. Glad you're still loving your Fatboy.
Very informative. Love my fatboy cab - It's a great compromise coming from a 4x12. This direct comparison reaffirms how particular cabinet designs are better for certain scenarios - in a practical and sonic sense.
Thanks mate. I think we actually dropped the ball a little with one of the tracks, we played a low gain nice open sounding tracks and I think it actually sounded better with the Small Vintage than the Fatboy, kind of affirming your point that certain cabs for certain styles/scenarios. Thanks for watching.
I run Friedman BE-50 thru Mojotone 4x12 Lite. Pine Cab, 4 Neo Creambacks, 45lbs. Very happy with my tone.
I love a 4x12 and I like pine cabs too, in fact I've just made myself one, and I reckon I'll be putting neo creams in there too. 45lbs is great, massive sound and super light.
Got Laney 2 x 12 put Celestion T 75 in it and a 2 x 12 with Celestion 70 80 s easy to carry
Great content as always. Keep making these awesome videos. 👍
Thanks mate, really appreciate it.
Excellent video showing the differences. Thanks!
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.
I really think it’s a great idea! I have been playing through your Fatboy for about a year now. Unbelievable tone and very nice to look at also 👍🏼👍🏼😎
Ace thanks mate.
Playing in this video has been absolutely sick
Thanks mate, really appreciate it. We've blagged quite a few DI tracks from some really cool players.
Let me tell you something. The producer/engineer would often EQ the bass of a cabinet, so a smaller cabinet can sound more focussed in a mix with less EQ needed. IIRC Fender made some amp/cabs out of solid pine a couple of times, ply will warp less in less favourable climates though. If the use is for studio only then weight isnt as much of a problem... and if the cab needs to be a 1x12 then there are mic'ing options internally and from the rear.. tube mics and ribbon mics on the front help.
You guys are fantastic - wish more people knew about you.
Yeah that's true about rolling off the low end, especially for cutting through on solos. Thanks for watching.
i would love to see the cabinet u build for mikko and his reflex ir format
I have reduced the weight AND improved the sound of my 4x12 by removing two speakers. It's 25% lighter, sounds less boomy and more open, is quieter so you can crank the amp more, and yet keeps the look of that big cab under a Marshall head, because nothing looks right under the Marshall head other than a 4x12.
Awesome vid !
Who is the Player ? Sounds absolutely killer 🔥
I was surprised who good the pine cabinet sounds, never had one. Might be a cool option
Rawk on, greetings from Germany Philipp
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. We used a few different players for this one, they should be in the description. Pine cabs can be cool, I prefer birch but the pine cab in this video is actually one of mine... it's always fun to bring it out every now and then.
Was that Tom Quayle demoing the ‘smaller cabs’? If not, they listen to A LOT of Tom Quayle 🤣
Yeah that's Tom Quayle
Awesome tool! What do you think of the Neo V-Type?
Thanks. The neo V type is a decent enough speaker, we should have a video on it coming out soon.
Great video! What about a 1x15? I mean obviously there are still gonna be compromises, but I wonder if a Fullback matched to a good amp, or a thoughtfully EQ'd signal through one of EVM's 15s could get you back into 212 territory for someone who needs something smaller and can handle a bit more weight?
Thanks I'm glad you like it. I'm getting really in to 1x15s, and we have an EVM 15 here, as well as a few other really cool 15s. We'll be putting more stuff out on 15s soon all being well.
This is a cool video. It is interesting to think about picking a cabinet where weight is the limiting mechanism as I don't do "gigging" and I haven't looked at what options affect weight. But here's my take on the options compared:
In the first example, I much prefer the 4x12. 2nd, Small Vintage. [for these 1st 2, there seemed be something missing from the other cab...missing low end in the 2x12 in the 1st example and missing high end in the 2nd] 3rd, I found the birth better, but it was close. [less harshness in the high end]. 4th I much prefer the V30s over the cream backs. [there is what seems to be some "umph" missing and something less good in the high end]. So for me it's a mixed bag with correlation between weight saving vs preferred tone. The cabinet changer is super cool... I'll have to check that out.
Loved this video, but creambacks and v30s are very different, would’ve loved to hear a comparison between neo-creambacks and regular creambacks. Would totally make a 2x12 cab with neo-creambacks for live use.
Glad you likied it. We've got a couple of videos on creambacks if that helps.
Everything matters. Most difference come from the dimensions and construction. Then material matters as well. Speaker choice is as already established crucial.
Creamback Neo is a good speaker. Only it lacks on sensitivity. For V30 lowers it doesn’t deliver that top end and middle that they crave. On the other side their side Celestion has the Copperback. It sounds completely different and it is 400 grams heavier. But it is Celestion light weight version of the EV 12L. In the Thiele Small cabinet with its 250 Watt rating and 100 dB/W/m it can makes some noise. Do not expect speaker breakup though. Still it is fascinating how much SPL you can get out of such a small cabinet (pun with small not intended 😊). That’s lightweight 1x12 that can take even Marshall Major on.
Now we are talking about classic guitar cabinets that essentially try to stop baffle vibration and in somewhat block front and back side of the cone. Then we talk about ported cabinets and good open back cabinets that can act similar to ported cabinets if they are designed good.
But often forgotten type of classic cabinet is super light and has low end. Especially it has more than anyone who understands speaker cabinets would think it’s capable off because of use of thin boards and relative flimsy construction.
Anyone recognized what cabinets am I referring to?
Fenders floating baffle tweed era combo cabinets. Look at the most popular Fender Deluxe 5E3 Tweed 1x12 narrow panel cabinet.
Originally made from red wood. Very thin baffle and back panels. Baffle just held in place with loose 5 screws no glue and not a thigh fit at all. Plus open back. Plus it is not that big nor that deep. Super light. For all of those construction “fails” it should have no bass at all right? Baffle moving and small cabinet it should be awful.
But it has bass and it does sound bigger than it is. How come?
Well back in those days engineers have had to work with what they have had. They played with it until they were able to tune floating baffle with the open back so they cancel energy loss in vibrations and actually amplify low end reproduction. It’s close to miracle but it works.
They pulled it off with other speaker sizes and speaker numbers.
But somehow people went to other construction methods and materials.
I bet you guys in Zillacabs could make good version. I have even better idea but let’s save it for later 😊
Great comment mate!
@@ZillaCabs thank you mate. Appreciated.
My favorite part about this comparison was that they all had different sounds. I'm assuming you used a re-amp box and swapped cabs? Excellent demonstration 👏
Thanks, really appreciate it. We reamp most of the stuff on here, it just gives us more control.
Do you ship to Croatia? And what are the shipping prices and other tax. Would love a nice versatile vertical 2x12 still have no idea what model would be best for me. But don't know of any other popular cab builders that are inside of the EU. Only scared about the shipping prices and tax and if thr cab would survive the long trip to here hahaha 😅. But love what you guys do!
Hi, thanks for getting in touch. We've shipped quite a few cabs to Croatia, it's fairly straight forward. If you head to our website we've got a programme up there that allows you to build your own spec cab and in most cases listen to it too. If you click the EU flag in the top right corner it will work out the correct price and shipping and let you now details on taxes too. Send us an email if you have any questions, I'm more than happy to help. Paul
@@ZillaCabs Many thanks, average prices of your 2x12 vertical cabs after shipping tax and whatever else? Also wondered in your teams opinion is it worth pairing different speaker combinations if I will be micing up my cabs live with one mic only? I know that acoustically there would be a benefit but I have idea what else.
@@SmoothToast39 all the prices are on there. If you are thinking about mostly playing live then maybe go for a pair of speakers, mixing still works but that's up to you.
@@ZillaCabs Thank you for your time and effort, have a wonderful day. Cheers!
Was that Tom Quayle's playing during the "Smaller Cab" section?
Yeah he's a beast... we use a few of his tracks. Thanks for watching.
I was surprised at the way the birch helped the midrange over the pine. Expected the low end to be the only difference.
One thing I've been wondering about lately, I have one amp, the Maz18, hooked up to a closed back stereo 2x12, and the speaker on the right is my favorite, the Mojo 25m, so I like to isolate it most of the time. This is a dual mono setup, and that amp is set to be my midrange. The Deluxe takes care of top- and bottom-end and reverb; the maz is my midrange push. So I don't have to care as much about loss of girth on that amp from different configurations.
Anyway, point is, I've been wondering about whether to detune the cab altogether, I know some people do it, but being a hifi guy I am reflexively opposed to front ports that aren't properly tuned lol Why not just make it into a transmission line cab lol I just figured it's probably a fairly common question, maybe not, idk, but that I don't really have the resources for a proper a/b but you do, if the topic seems video-worthy to you.
Because that amp is so good that I want to take it places instead of the studio plexi, but what a pain it would be to lug around the pedal board, the deluxe reverb, the maz18, and its cab. In a single-amp rig with the maz, having the mojo V on the left to hook into for higher gain sounds, the mojo M on the left for everything else, and the combination of both for a closed-cab option as well, may not be worth lugging a 2x12 around if only having one speaker hooked up sounds no better than simply having an open back 1x12. Sorry for the life story lol Complicated questions take complicated setups.
I think the difference between pine and birch is more apparent in the room too. Pine can sound great but generally birch ply (assuming you use a good quality birch and the right type) is more controlled, so better for some styles.
With your porting issue/dilema.... I don't really know what to say as hifi is quite different to guitar. Guitar sounds and what works is generally not right from a hifi point of view so it may be hard for you to settle on something there. When it comes to a transmission line cab they are generally harder to make, heavier and more expensive... mix that in with often theres a fair bit of tweaking in a ported cab for guitar and so many opinions on what sounds best anyway that they aren't that common. Does that make sense.
@@ZillaCabs Oh it was more of a joke lol guitar cabs are meant to resonate and be part of the sound, whereas only a hifi enclosure would get things like tuned porting and poly fill. I’ve designed and built hifi speakers a few times so I totally understand the difference, I was just illustrating that, if I unhook the maz from the deluxe, I’ll have to think about what is happening with the low end when I unhook the left speaker and let it act as a passive radiator. Which means the question becomes, would it be worth the trade off of fewer configurations and a smaller enclosure, to simply change the maz to a 1x12 when it’s not part of a dual mono rig.
@@ZillaCabs Long story short: Do you ever get asked about detuned cabs, a.k.a. 2x12 cabs with one speaker removed.
Very informative
Thanks, I'm glad you like it.
Yo! What is that little Gower 800 amp!? Is it a chopped down chassis or an SC20!?
It's Tony's amp, one of the Modern Marshalls that Dan Gower modified. Tony loves it.
@@ZillaCabs Awesome, thanks! Yeah, it looks like a modded SC20 (mini 800)
Something that was overlooked in this vid....castors! If the cab has an option for it, great, but if not, they can be added afterwards and it means you dont have to lift the cab for most of the transportation. just stairs etc.
What head was used in this video during the first clip.
Neo Cream back is the Oriverb speaker, it;s an aggressive midrange speaker with a pretty flat frequency response compared to the vintage 30 which is scooped. This scooped sound is why a tube screamer is usually paired as a boost, to bump up the midrange. No need for a tube screamer with the Cream Backs.
@Zilla Cabs: you mention material affects the tone, I am wondering how an MDF back affects the sound of a cab? I notice especially Marshall uses MDF for its backs in at least the Studio series vertical 2x12 and for the backs of its combos…
I'm not a huge fan of MDF for guitar cabs but people have used it. It's a uniform material and a few monitors etc are made from it.
first example had a quad against a 2x12. are they the same speaker? the quad is scooped and the twin mid heavy and lower bottom end. 2x12 would be better suited in a mix. You can tame mids to suit, but it's harder to add something that's not there in the quad. if same speaker, goes to show how much the actual cab makes a difference.
It was actually the same speaker as I remember but that wasn't necessarily the point, it was more to give a board comparison that a 2x12 can keep up with a 4x12 in certain cases. Thanks for watching.
@@ZillaCabs kind of what i was getting at too. a 2x12 cuts nicely in a mix, more focused. i have a 4x12 and a 2x12. my 4x12 is smoother and open and sits in a mix nicely, but the 2x12 cuts with a heavier mid. it really depends on your goal for a gig, and also the sound of the room/stage. one box may sound better due to room.
I went from one of yours 1x12 fat baby cabs to a one of your vertical 2x12 and in comparison was skinnier than the 1x12. Honestly the 1x12 smoked the 2x12 as it had a lot less depth and resonance. Wish I never traded that 1x12 haha but I now have a super fat boy 2x12 and it’s perfect 👌
Thanks mate, always good to hear from a happy customer. Glad to hear you like the SFB.
Do pine cab suitable for metal, compare to plywood?
Some people like pine for heavier styles. Personally I prefer a slightly more controlled sound and generally you get that more from birch ply, but it is all subjective.
@@ZillaCabs Thanks. What you think about mdf for guitar cab building?
The fatboy vs small vintage comparison was really interesting, I'd love to hear some 'in-between' cabs (i.e. 12mm ply FB, 15mm ply SV, with and without sound post, etc) to hear where the tonal shifts occur.
Have you ever played around much with other types of internal bracing or damping? I'm currently planning to build a cab(s) and this looked like a way to get something unique without breaking the bank (even if it takes me more time to make).
We'll be doing some videos on all that stuff in the future, it all plays a part in the sound.
One thing you should try is 1) get rid of the baffle (replace it with thin wooden braces), so the resonance coming from the back of the cab will be more present. 2) Replace the useless back of the cab with a spruce soundboard (similar to a grand piano sounboard), then, 3) connect the back of the speaker to the spruce soundboard with some spruce pieces sqeezed in, putting the soundboard under pressure. This is my patent free suggestion. Nobody has tried it before, not because it's expensive, but because cab makers are simply stuck in the past.
No… the reason no one has tried that particular idea is that it makes very little sense if you know anything about the subject 😂 it’s certainly inventive, but not a good idea. that said you are correct in guitar cab manufacturers being stuck in the past. Bass cabs are light years ahead. If you want to check out some modern tech in guitar cabs look up barefaced, a bass cab manufacturer that went into guitar cabs. They have a very interesting design that does some of the things you wanted with your original idea.
@@guyfawkes8873 But you should explain why it makes little sense 😁
So, the purpose of a fully enclosed speaker is to contain the rear wave, which is in anti phase with the front wave and so will cancel it out. If the rear wall of the speaker is allowed to resonate, then some of this rear anti phase wave will escape, but only at the certain frequencies that match these resonances.
What you'll end up with, is a very lumpy, uneven frequency response. It *might* sound good, but it probably won't, unless you spend *a lot* of time carefully tuning the back panel, the way a violin maker might tune the plates of a violin. That's simply not practical, nor is it necessary.
The alternative options: a ported enclosure, where the resonance of the port can very easily be calculated; or a passive radiator, which can be tuned by adding or removing mass from the dummy speaker.
But those aren't used in guitar cabs, because they just don't sound as good as sealed enclosures.
@@Mikey__R The anti phase is never a problem when you use a thin spruce soundboard. It's the whole speaker being resonating. There are guitarists who actually prefer the sound coming from the back of the cab, cranking the volume, with the back of the speakers facing the public. A grand piano without soundboard will sound still like a piano, but colder and weaker, a violin or a guitar without belly will sound still like a violin or a guitar, but colder and weaker (see yamaha silent violin or silent guitar for example). A soundboard it is there to color the sound in a good way, spreading it in all direction, but you need to put it under strong tension only in a small area (examples, bridge of violin or bridge of piano). If you screw a speaker to a soundboard you are actually doing the wrong thing, because it's like dropping a couple of bricks on it, dampening the whole soundboard. That's why I am suggesting those three steps above.
The cabinet walls can add or detract from the sound of any speaker. Stiff, non-resonant material that is thick enough for the job at hand is best, IMHO. Non-void 3/4" plywood, for example for musical instrument enclosures. However, when it comes to classic musical instrument cabinets, all bets are off.
I'm probably a minority here, but personally, I thought the small vintage was the best sounding cab. The bottom end was more focussed, less muddy. Way clearer for guitar!
the section with "smaller cab" is so different in the top end I'm thinking something else happened lol.
Do you mean the Small Vintage, the cab with the reduced depth? A reduced depth does change the low end response essentially making it brighter.
@@ZillaCabs the ones at 4:20 and 4:25, what I mean is the Fatboy sounds like there's a hefty low pass filter on it, similar to moving the mic a good bit further out. I struggle to believe that the size of a cab can result in such a massive high cut! >-> Just wanted to double check with you guys that there's nothing else going on 😅
Use 2 ,2-12 easy to carry
Yeah that can be more flexible too... can mix backs, flavours etc... although I guess a cab builder would say that ;)
@@ZillaCabs I’m thinking about it one cab has t75 the other 70 -80
🔥
Thanks guys
Recording of the 212 was almost the same sound as the 412. I guess in the room it differs.
Yeah it is close mic so in the room you will feel more impact from the 4x12. I think 4x12s are mostly for moving air and giving a thud. 4x12s are a lot of fun, we just wanted to show that you can get a lot of the way there with the right 2x12 too. Thanks for watching.
Cry of love riff is genius.
Thanks
Interesting, prefer the smaller lightweight cabs
There was one track in particular that sounded really good with the Small Vintage 2x12
@@ZillaCabs exactly, really liked that one, guess it would record well
2x12 horizontal cab sounded more “resonant” and fuller than a vertical 2x12.
I would love you to start making cabs from carbon fiber
We've got carbon fibre style tolex if that helps ;)
The difference in sound between the 2x12"s was negligent (as in, not enough to justify a price difference or an upgrade) as expected.
Going from 4x12" to 2x12"will make a bigger difference then changing the plywood.
Also, the distance between speakers will make a bigger diffrence then changing the materials of the cab while keeping the same materials.
The same happens when you swap pickups in an electric guitar, hardly ANY justifyable difference.
If you change the distance between the pickups and the bridge it will make a difference/impact on tone (bigger then you expect from swapping a PAF to a high output P.U.)
The ideal speakercab (is also very impractical) is made of concrete or a different rock type, with a HUUUUUUGE mass. Mass is everything.
Same goes for guitars. Flimsy guitars are terrible. Heavy guitars (and I don't mean the shape) will sound better. You want ALL the energy of the vibrating string to be transfered to the P.U., not the wood (toanwood is a grade of wood, not some magic EQ mystery)
Anywho, carry on with the toneseeking. I love video's like this.
Wood type is more apparent in the room but baffle rigidity is one of the biggest things in a cab for sure./ We'll be doing some videos on that. Thanks for watching.
There’s more to it-If you stand in front of a full stack it’s 8 speakers-although mine is 6 and there is something to having more speakers -maybe you know what that is?
Yeah it's great, all that air hitting you, you can really feel it.