@@armwrestlingfan6804 charisma is a hell of a drug. I'm a huge fan and love his videos but man, KM gets me into irrational territory (you probably noticed my 50+ comments on his video about it 🤣)
Except this contradicts your entire video? According to Engin as long as the shoulder is not below the pad it is fine, even if the arm is fully extended.
Engin calling this move by its name. It is a desperation move people use to avoid of getting pinned. Everything Engin said here is 100% true and Devon is wrong on this even tho i love him.
If Kings move is a 'cheat' allowed by the rules,why can't Engen or others who is against it try it. Primarily because they are afraid of breaking their arms. (That's why it's called a Kings move- going to any extend for win like a king) Not only Michael or Devon does it,even Denis uses it.so what's the problem?
@@simonmathews1331 Over King's moving is not allowed. It's the referee responsability to enforce the rules. Devon and Todd are a disgrace when they do this desperation move described by Engin. Devon vs Chaffee was lame. Only fanboys who know nothing about the sport can support their guru Larratt because they discovered AW through him. The competition shoulder must not be under the pad and arm bent is a loss. That's it.
@@frederic_millenial if its disgrace you should change rules then. Complain the rules,rules maker and referees;Why complaining on Athletes?? Also Kings Move has been around for long-why still no one cares to ban it then? So as long as the *rules allow it* I don't see a problem with it.
@@simonmathews1331 Denis didn't do any illegal moves. That's the difference. Todd and Devon are known to break the rules because referee let them do. If you can't understand the topic, don't try to argue. You're off topic.
This is true! The problem is that Michael todd and Devon larrat are the face of WAL so they will continue to allow these type of movements. Michael todd is nothing without kings move
Like was already mentioned, and as Engin said in this video towards the end, Michael Todd did not use the Kings Move in a problematic way as described in this video, at all, during his match with Jerry, or with Dave. Engin said he has no problem with how Michael Todd armwrestled in those matches, and said those usages were not unfair.
@@skaarlner what is world class? cause I think top 100 is world class too. But top 100 is not top 3 and world 1 contender. Ask Michael if is gonna not use king's move against Levan if u think he is good without it :)
Engin is the Dad of armwrestling. Cares about the sport, cares about the competitors. Knowledgeable and wise. We're lucky to have you Engin, keep up the awesome work and everything you do for the sport!!
That is fine, mayweather had brittle hands so he became a master of defense, normally to win you use the best strategy you can to give yourself a edge, Khabib would be nothing without his wrestling, connor would be nothing without his striking, usain bolt would be nothing without his speed ect
WAL rules state that your can't lower attacking shoulder below the elbow pads. But they don't pay attention to their own rules. This move will keep armwrestling from gaining popularity.
Wal rules and how they’re enforced seem to depend on what rd it is, whose winning, etc, because their biggest concern is making an exciting good show. This is why wal is not like pal, where every super match is 6-0. IMO Whether you see that as a bad thing can be up for debate. It can be a risky strategy strategy though if the wrong person ends up winning
@@rufussthubbins8891 you can't change the rules during a match and expect to be taken seriously as a sport. If you look at the comments under any match with the desperation move, they are nearly all negative and a large number ridicule the sport. It's not a recipe for success
@@rufussthubbins8891 yeah...I know they try to make the sport mediatic and thats good I guess but if you do it by being less professional and inconsistent about enforcing the rules.. It doesn't feel right. Also they don't feel very "World" to me when they have 0 of the top EU guys in there.
On point love it. Salute to those armwrestlers who never used this desperation move. One more thing, when you do desperation move your arm is clearly not a 90 degrees anymore which is literally straight and consider as pin.
So long as the kingsmovers riser is intact it is much harder to open their elbow angle. If they're riser drops they cannot use their brachioradialis in conjunction with their bicep. This is why a good presser that attacks the fingers of a kingsmover is more effective. Pushkar pressed michael and grabbed his thumb and michael lost his riser and pushkar was able to press through him.
Love Michael Todd and Devin but this is 100 percent correct. They’re literally ruining the sport they love. Devin is a smart guy. I think he knows deep down that the kings move is bs
Im new to the sport and without knowing too much about the sport i have to say the kings move looks ridiculous and when i first saw it being used I couldn’t understand how it is not considered cheating. Looks like a cowards way out
Agree, the kings move is a joke. You shouldn’t be allowed to go so far down and straighten the I arm. It’s a desperation move and that allows WEAKER or INFERIOR arm wrestlers to stay inside match for longer. Try break their arms when they kings move. That’s what I would do 🤷🏻♂️
I completely understand what your saying, I also felt that the kingsmove should not be allowed, In time thought i realized that there are ALOT of "illegal" moves/techniques in armwrestleing, besides being strong the guys that can pull off the grey area are more successful and its part of the sport.. For example: Hitting on the end of READY be4 the ref says GO..
@@Engin_Terzi true, but i mean there is alot of lil things like that, like the quick elbow pop off the pad at a hit, its probably missed 50% of the time.
@Engin_Terzi how about the ref turns a light on instead of saying go. That way it will be a legitimate GO and it would be obvious if anyone starts early
i like monster todd hes a great armwrestler but i think people were upset with how he won the hammer and it was allowed. his shoulder was under the table and his elbow was off the pad almost every round. that being said i think the next match devon being devon made a point to OVER DO the kings move vs chaffee , like he figured " if they are gonna allow that why not try it myselft" . these are just my opinions lemme know what you think?
Engin hocam uluslararasi sportmenligini youtubeda da bu sekilde devam ettirmen cok guzel. Kanal cok daha ileriye gidecek insallah. Ing bilmeyen arkadaslar icin tr alt yazida eklenebilir
@@fikirkolesi4819 devon kings move u savunuyor. Engin ise desperation move olarak nitelendiriyor kol dumduz olmamali veya omuz masa altina inmemeli diyor. Devon ise farketmez eli kontrol altina alabilirsin omuz seviyesi onemli degil filn diyor ama sacmalik bence engin hoca cok hakli
100% with Engin in this, Devon is wrong but doesn't want to admit it cause he has to use the Kingsmove himself to stop the push. He is not as strong as he used to be, Kingsmove is bad for the sport
Engin. I agree with you 100%. I believe the true problem is the application of the rules. I have seen many ugly matches where fouls should have been called. When both shoulders are below the table with only the tricep touching the pad, it is clearly an elbow foul. I don't blame the competitors for trying. All is fair in love and war. I don't have a proble with the king's move, but I would like to see the referees enforce the rules that exist.
Best video on kingsmove. No normative bullshit, just straight facts. WAL just need to strictly enforce the "shoulder below elbow pad" rule, and then all the haters should shut up about the aesthetic of the move
Engin is very good explaining this and thank god he is speaking againts that wrong move. He is Right and He might be the only real Top Level Arm Wrestler who can save the Arm Wrestling! There might be others on top who thinks that way but dont got the balls to speak about it like Engin!
@@esbonwordenjr6069 yes its bigger but is it good that kingsmove is only winning move in future. They dont get called foul on wrong move and sport getting uglier and not fair
The talk of the elbow being elevated it’s the same as any other Pin bc the girth of the arm will raise and the point of the elbow won’t have contact like in any pin position
before knowing mike todd it really pisses me off when i watched the match between devon and todd. King's move is like if you can't break my arm ill rest here under the table until you tire out. Havent watch that many match of mike todd but how many times did he won not using the king's move?
problem is it seems like refs never call a foul if your shoulder is below the pad level they just give you a prompt or warning to come back up and seems like most arm wrestlers do it for a moment and go back under.
the thing is easy to make a rule just keep the whole Elbow on the pad when u go under the table only half of the elbow is on the pad, so then the reff needs to warn the parson to stand up a little bit or they foul.
I'm a huge fan of Devon, he is the reason I'm watching armwresling, but in this topic I agree 100% with Engin. Although I belive Devon agrees too. Straight arm or shoulder belowe the table = foul. I can't see how somebody can dissagree with that.
He thinks straight arm is ok though (or never addressed it in his videos at least), he won after getting his arm like this 200 times against Chaffee: imgur.com/haTJy7c
@@dedukos yeah I think he knows deep inside that he won in a shitty way, but I don't know if he will ever admit it in one of his videos, actually he seems to be going in the other direction and trying to make good PR for the King's move and everything around it.
@@hyper_channel Devon agrees that shoulder below the pad is against the rules. No armwrestling organization says anything about straight arm because it's immeasurable. On top of that, Devon's arm isnt straight exactly, it's more turned to the side. Devon's arm doesn't even open up 100% straight like normal people's do. Add to all that the fact that Dave's shoulder is actually lower than Devon's and every criticism of the technique displayed by Devon in this picture just falls apart except for maybe it's "ugly" which is really subjective. Devon is arm-wrestling totally within the rules here. MT on the other hand, and I love that guy, does in fact drop his shoulder below the table sometimes. Truth is, though, it's a combat sport. You SHOULD be fighting for every inch and every scrap, that's what a fighter does. If it goes outside the rules that's on the ref to call it, not the armwrestler to stop fighting for the win.
Devon has no argument for this. Engin explained this perfectly. Michael todd got so much hate bc of it and so should devon. He lost to todd and developed a kings move as well, kinda reminds of Kevin durrant joining the warriors after losing to them in the semi finals. Devon has the "if u cant beat em, join them" aka the snake mentality.
@@dqreps oh so why didnt he use it before he lost to Michael. Come on, he even made fun of Michael todd when he won over chafee. He didnt use it against cyplenkov as well, sure thing it was pre michael todd but you're saying its age dependent?. Doesnt make any sense, then he should've used it against denis.
@@dqreps I dont see the excitement in it, its plain stupid but effective, yes it works but it needs rules. The shoulder above the elbow pad does it for me. If you can go under table then a shoulder press where you can touch the the opponents hand with ur shoulder, should be allowed as well.
Haklısınız hocam. Gerçekten desperation move ismini hakedecek bir hareket. Spor dediğin şey birşeyleri geliştirmek üzerinedir ve iyi olan kazanır. Kolumuz 180 derece açıkken geliştirdiğimiz herhangi bir yerimizle müsabık olamıyoruz binevi hile
Build a table that stops that all you have to do is build a box that they can't drop under the table or gave the ref call a foul if the drop lower than the pad
just because of the geometry of the arm - if the shoulder goes below the pad -> upper limb lifts the elbow off the pad. that's an obvious foul, end of discussion
the reason micheal todd and devon larret use the kings move is because both of them connot straighten their arms out naturally giving them an advantage.so not only are you trying to pull them back up from below the table, you trying to straighten an arm that cannot be straightened.
it's unfair because it doesn't relate anymore on arm power, and also doesn't anymore relate to elbow leverage, but shoulder leverage, also bodyweight become an even more important factor PASSIVELY, and also the arm is already straight, if it's straight it should be a loss already, it's ARM wrestling, if your arm is already straight, your arm is already out.
Totally agree but people like Todd still abuse this rule. Just look at the latest match against genadi, Todd's shoulder was above the pad so technically no foul, hut he was completely bone locked and the strap rolled so far out that genadi had literally nowhere to go. Eventhough the fact they are in that position shows that genadi had dominated Todd's and was the stronger man in the centre. The whole nature of this move is basically "run away and hide until the guy gasses out because I'm weaker and can't win without manipulating my bones to fight for me" this is not entertaining...we want to see the strongest guys on earth fight to see who is strongest, not who can run away the best
There is no one who ever first saw Michael Todd start dominating with it think "Yeah, that looks like armwrestling." No, it's an eye sore and an abomination to the sport.
People forget that the only reason micheal had to use this move wasn't by choice, he had a bad injury and couldn't continue to armwrestle unless he developed kings move. So it's basically like making fun of a cripple having to use a wheel chair to get around. The shoulder cannot go below the TABLE, not the PAD. Devons shoulder doesn't go under the table, micheal does. There are lots of factors that need taken apart one by one before people conclude anything. Yes micheal should follow the rules, but he also cannot armwrestle in any other position anymore dye to a serious injury, its either that or quit and when have you ever known a champion armwrestler who has been doing this for that long to quit? I wouldn't for you.
Can't wait for the mental gymnastics from the desperation users to dismiss this video. Also Engin it would be nice if you could touch on the implications of this move being used by people with limited range in the arm (like in Michael's case)
@@dqreps My concern is the people with lower range get to access the leverage Engin is talking about earlier, without needing to drop as low (therefore staying inside the legal range) but someone without the lock would have to drop lower to access that same leverage.
@@dqreps yeah I know that it's very unlikely that rules are going change in that regard, much less in WAL but I don't like the push from some personalities to try and take it out the grey area where that move lives, and try to put it in the basket of the other AW moves. And I know where they are coming from "A win is a win", "It doesn't matter if its ugly or not if you win" and all that, but still never will defend the normalization of it and everybody who has it as their go to will always have their achievements be less impressive (in my eyes anyway).
It is easier for Michael Todd to stay above the table than for Devon because MT cannot straighten his arm so all these things that Engin was talking about Michael Todd can get in a little higher position than Devon.
well said👏👏 micheal todd and larrat are ruining the sport.bcoz i saw more and more people using desperation move..(looks ugly and has no strength benefit)
If there is any puny and weak armwrestler that pulls the kings move, or the desperation move as Engin Terzi names it, why not counter it with the same move. This will probably end up in nothing gained by both sides. But it will probably help with protesting and in changing the stupid rules which allows this in the first place.
I get it. If steroids were legal, everyone would do them. (Not saying people don't use them. just using this to make a point.) Its a competition first and foremost. Use whatever you can to be the winner. Just don't pretend that you are not. Be honest. Just say yes, I had to use the kings move because I wasn't strong enough to get in a hook, and my wrist wasn't strong enough to top roll. Just come out and say that I had to use the only move I had left. Even if it is equal to kicking your opponent in the nuts or hitting them while their back us turned. Its a shitty move that works.
A very nice explanation. I'm not on any side. I'm just a fan. I think it's great to have these conversations, explanations and discussions between masters like you and Devon.
This video wins the argument in my opinion. Both made good points but Engin’s are based in facts, not philosophy.
@@armwrestlingfan6804 charisma is a hell of a drug. I'm a huge fan and love his videos but man, KM gets me into irrational territory (you probably noticed my 50+ comments on his video about it 🤣)
Agreed
Perfect explanation sir!
@@armwrestlingfan6804 You gay for Devon? Hahhhhahahah
100% true statements
Agreed.
Chill bro 😂
@@anaseljamal7105 chill clown
th-cam.com/video/zuwG8Hz_XN0/w-d-xo.html
Except this contradicts your entire video? According to Engin as long as the shoulder is not below the pad it is fine, even if the arm is fully extended.
@ Maybe he changed opinions, or yeah it's a fine line fallacy which is a contradiction as you suggest
New PAL rule: 10.A "Kings movers are allowed to sit on a chair while pulling, so they protect their knees while waiting under the table".
😭😂😭
😂
Engin calling this move by its name. It is a desperation move people use to avoid of getting pinned. Everything Engin said here is 100% true and Devon is wrong on this even tho i love him.
If Kings move is a 'cheat' allowed by the rules,why can't Engen or others who is against it try it.
Primarily because they are afraid of breaking their arms. (That's why it's called a Kings move- going to any extend for win like a king)
Not only Michael or Devon does it,even Denis uses it.so what's the problem?
@@simonmathews1331 Over King's moving is not allowed. It's the referee responsability to enforce the rules. Devon and Todd are a disgrace when they do this desperation move described by Engin. Devon vs Chaffee was lame. Only fanboys who know nothing about the sport can support their guru Larratt because they discovered AW through him.
The competition shoulder must not be under the pad and arm bent is a loss. That's it.
@@frederic_millenial if its disgrace you should change rules then.
Complain the rules,rules maker and referees;Why complaining on Athletes??
Also Kings Move has been around for long-why still no one cares to ban it then?
So as long as the *rules allow it* I don't see a problem with it.
@@simonmathews1331 Denis didn't do any illegal moves.
That's the difference. Todd and Devon are known to break the rules because referee let them do.
If you can't understand the topic, don't try to argue. You're off topic.
@@frederic_millenial Really?Referees allow them?
Then it's referees problem not athletes.
Todd has pulled under WAL,WAF,PAL rules and won manytimes.
I love Devon, but I'm with Engin on this one.
เดวอนชอบมองคุณใต้โต๊ะ😂😂
This is true! The problem is that Michael todd and Devon larrat are the face of WAL so they will continue to allow these type of movements. Michael todd is nothing without kings move
Señor mierdas he didn’t use it against jerry their last match. I give him props for that.
Stop calling it kings move. It the Desperation move.
@@skaarlner it is a world class athlete with the King move, without it is outside world top 15
Like was already mentioned, and as Engin said in this video towards the end, Michael Todd did not use the Kings Move in a problematic way as described in this video, at all, during his match with Jerry, or with Dave. Engin said he has no problem with how Michael Todd armwrestled in those matches, and said those usages were not unfair.
@@skaarlner what is world class? cause I think top 100 is world class too. But top 100 is not top 3 and world 1 contender. Ask Michael if is gonna not use king's move against Levan if u think he is good without it :)
Engin is the Dad of armwrestling. Cares about the sport, cares about the competitors. Knowledgeable and wise.
We're lucky to have you Engin, keep up the awesome work and everything you do for the sport!!
I agree, as long as ur shoulder doesn't go below the pad level it is fine.
Well said! And the refs got no ballz to call that FOUL!!!!!!
100% agree with all of it. Very well said and demonstrated. More people need to see this, it's a great explanation.
Michael todd is nothing without Kings Move he can't hold while standing
That is fine, mayweather had brittle hands so he became a master of defense, normally to win you use the best strategy you can to give yourself a edge, Khabib would be nothing without his wrestling, connor would be nothing without his striking, usain bolt would be nothing without his speed ect
@@mrgainz7252 what a bs argument , they should ban this hanging under the table move its a flaw in the rules of armwrestling.
@@Rotten58 triggered
I'm sure he can hold against you
th-cam.com/video/zuwG8Hz_XN0/w-d-xo.html
Shoulder press (elbow bone lock) press -foul when over center.
Kings Move (elbow bone lock)- foul under pad.
End of story.
The final point "It's bad for the sport" sums it up very nicely.
Engin is the man. 💪
Every time Engin says desperation move I start laughing uncontrollably 😂 😂
Stating facts! 💪💥 Engin is like walking armwrestling tutorial.
That's why I never salute Michael Todd for his "great" achievements in the sport.
Kings move would be fine if your shoulder wasn’t aloud to drop below the fighting elbow..parallel humerus is fine but when it drops lower?? Gross
WAL rules state that your can't lower attacking shoulder below the elbow pads. But they don't pay attention to their own rules. This move will keep armwrestling from gaining popularity.
Bart can't even enforce the same rules match to match..
Wal rules and how they’re enforced seem to depend on what rd it is, whose winning, etc, because their biggest concern is making an exciting good show. This is why wal is not like pal, where every super match is 6-0. IMO
Whether you see that as a bad thing can be up for debate. It can be a risky strategy strategy though if the wrong person ends up winning
@@rufussthubbins8891 you can't change the rules during a match and expect to be taken seriously as a sport. If you look at the comments under any match with the desperation move, they are nearly all negative and a large number ridicule the sport. It's not a recipe for success
@@rufussthubbins8891 yeah...I know they try to make the sport mediatic and thats good I guess but if you do it by being less professional and inconsistent about enforcing the rules.. It doesn't feel right.
Also they don't feel very "World" to me when they have 0 of the top EU guys in there.
@@HulkSmashJG hey I totally agree if the goal is to be the most taken seriously. Just explaining how it all appears to me
Very cool explanation. This channel should have more subs.
On point love it. Salute to those armwrestlers who never used this desperation move. One more thing, when you do desperation move your arm is clearly not a 90 degrees anymore which is literally straight and consider as pin.
So long as the kingsmovers riser is intact it is much harder to open their elbow angle. If they're riser drops they cannot use their brachioradialis in conjunction with their bicep. This is why a good presser that attacks the fingers of a kingsmover is more effective. Pushkar pressed michael and grabbed his thumb and michael lost his riser and pushkar was able to press through him.
Yeah.... you would think engin would know that
MT improved his kings move over the years and now he is stronger.
Love Michael Todd and Devin but this is 100 percent correct. They’re literally ruining the sport they love. Devin is a smart guy. I think he knows deep down that the kings move is bs
he knows..just cares more abt winning than anything else
ENGIN preaching the gospel . Kings move is so bad for the sport and should be instant loss of round
Im new to the sport and without knowing too much about the sport i have to say the kings move looks ridiculous and when i first saw it being used I couldn’t understand how it is not considered cheating. Looks like a cowards way out
Great information! Thanks for the video!
Yes, 100 percent agree.
Agree, the kings move is a joke. You shouldn’t be allowed to go so far down and straighten the I arm. It’s a desperation move and that allows WEAKER or INFERIOR arm wrestlers to stay inside match for longer. Try break their arms when they kings move. That’s what I would do 🤷🏻♂️
No skill or strength needed for a move like this.
No wonder Todd uses it, especially with his locked elbow.
I completely understand what your saying, I also felt that the kingsmove should not be allowed, In time thought i realized that there are ALOT of "illegal" moves/techniques in armwrestleing, besides being strong the guys that can pull off the grey area are more successful and its part of the sport.. For example: Hitting on the end of READY be4 the ref says GO..
That's why there needs to be a pause between ready and go
@@Engin_Terzi true, but i mean there is alot of lil things like that, like the quick elbow pop off the pad at a hit, its probably missed 50% of the time.
@Engin_Terzi how about the ref turns a light on instead of saying go. That way it will be a legitimate GO and it would be obvious if anyone starts early
@shannonk3909 or one of them guys with revolver used in track
i like monster todd hes a great armwrestler but i think people were upset with how he won the hammer and it was allowed. his shoulder was under the table and his elbow was off the pad almost every round. that being said i think the next match devon being devon made a point to OVER DO the kings move vs chaffee , like he figured " if they are gonna allow that why not try it myselft" . these are just my opinions lemme know what you think?
Engin hocam uluslararasi sportmenligini youtubeda da bu sekilde devam ettirmen cok guzel. Kanal cok daha ileriye gidecek insallah. Ing bilmeyen arkadaslar icin tr alt yazida eklenebilir
Reis hiç sorma ya deminden beri olayı anlamaya çalışıyorum.Engin hoca masa altında olunca omuz faul diyor bunu anladım devonda niye faul olsun diyor ?
@@fikirkolesi4819 devon kings move u savunuyor. Engin ise desperation move olarak nitelendiriyor kol dumduz olmamali veya omuz masa altina inmemeli diyor. Devon ise farketmez eli kontrol altina alabilirsin omuz seviyesi onemli degil filn diyor ama sacmalik bence engin hoca cok hakli
I hope more people see this video!
100% with Engin in this, Devon is wrong but doesn't want to admit it cause he has to use the Kingsmove himself to stop the push. He is not as strong as he used to be, Kingsmove is bad for the sport
Perfect explanation, respect
Very interesting video! Thanks for your insight Engin!
Engin. I agree with you 100%. I believe the true problem is the application of the rules. I have seen many ugly matches where fouls should have been called. When both shoulders are below the table with only the tricep touching the pad, it is clearly an elbow foul. I don't blame the competitors for trying. All is fair in love and war. I don't have a proble with the king's move, but I would like to see the referees enforce the rules that exist.
Engin - Damn that was well thought out.
Thank you for making this video.
Good bless you!
Good video Engin, well explained. You should do a gym tour 👍
I agree 100% because you lay it up basic facts about what armwrestling is about.
I agree, the kings move should be allowed if shoulder is above the pad.
Perfectly put togheter! More people need to realise this and enforce change in the rules in the affected associations.
Best video on kingsmove. No normative bullshit, just straight facts. WAL just need to strictly enforce the "shoulder below elbow pad" rule, and then all the haters should shut up about the aesthetic of the move
Engin is very good explaining this and thank god he is speaking againts that wrong move. He is Right and He might be the only real Top Level Arm Wrestler who can save the Arm Wrestling! There might be others on top who thinks that way but dont got the balls to speak about it like Engin!
Save it..!! Where did it go?? The sport is bigger now than it ever was...!!
@@esbonwordenjr6069 yes its bigger but is it good that kingsmove is only winning move in future. They dont get called foul on wrong move and sport getting uglier and not fair
The talk of the elbow being elevated it’s the same as any other Pin bc the girth of the arm will raise and the point of the elbow won’t have contact like in any pin position
Agree that you should be allowed to go below the Panama with the shoulders
Please reply to this Devon
before knowing mike todd it really pisses me off when i watched the match between devon and todd. King's move is like if you can't break my arm ill rest here under the table until you tire out. Havent watch that many match of mike todd but how many times did he won not using the king's move?
Very well argued. 100% agree.
your arguments are good, i agree that puting boundries make the matches more interesting
problem is it seems like refs never call a foul if your shoulder is below the pad level they just give you a prompt or warning to come back up and seems like most arm wrestlers do it for a moment and go back under.
the thing is easy to make a rule just keep the whole Elbow on the pad when u go under the table only half of the elbow is on the pad, so then the reff needs to warn the parson to stand up a little bit or they foul.
great explanation. Agreed.
I'm a huge fan of Devon, he is the reason I'm watching armwresling, but in this topic I agree 100% with Engin. Although I belive Devon agrees too. Straight arm or shoulder belowe the table = foul. I can't see how somebody can dissagree with that.
He thinks straight arm is ok though (or never addressed it in his videos at least), he won after getting his arm like this 200 times against Chaffee: imgur.com/haTJy7c
@@hyper_channel Sure he did but I don't think he believes it's right.
@@dedukos yeah I think he knows deep inside that he won in a shitty way, but I don't know if he will ever admit it in one of his videos, actually he seems to be going in the other direction and trying to make good PR for the King's move and everything around it.
Davon sad many times that the win is more important than the way of wining...i dissagree with that..
@@hyper_channel Devon agrees that shoulder below the pad is against the rules. No armwrestling organization says anything about straight arm because it's immeasurable. On top of that, Devon's arm isnt straight exactly, it's more turned to the side. Devon's arm doesn't even open up 100% straight like normal people's do.
Add to all that the fact that Dave's shoulder is actually lower than Devon's and every criticism of the technique displayed by Devon in this picture just falls apart except for maybe it's "ugly" which is really subjective. Devon is arm-wrestling totally within the rules here.
MT on the other hand, and I love that guy, does in fact drop his shoulder below the table sometimes. Truth is, though, it's a combat sport. You SHOULD be fighting for every inch and every scrap, that's what a fighter does. If it goes outside the rules that's on the ref to call it, not the armwrestler to stop fighting for the win.
What Engin is saying here is not an opinion, its a fact.
Devon has no argument for this. Engin explained this perfectly. Michael todd got so much hate bc of it and so should devon. He lost to todd and developed a kings move as well, kinda reminds of Kevin durrant joining the warriors after losing to them in the semi finals. Devon has the "if u cant beat em, join them" aka the snake mentality.
@@dqreps oh so why didnt he use it before he lost to Michael. Come on, he even made fun of Michael todd when he won over chafee. He didnt use it against cyplenkov as well, sure thing it was pre michael todd but you're saying its age dependent?. Doesnt make any sense, then he should've used it against denis.
@@dqreps I dont see the excitement in it, its plain stupid but effective, yes it works but it needs rules. The shoulder above the elbow pad does it for me. If you can go under table then a shoulder press where you can touch the the opponents hand with ur shoulder, should be allowed as well.
@@CossyMango i agree with this, well said.
I agree. Shoulder must be limited. It should not be allowed as a lever
Haklısınız hocam. Gerçekten desperation move ismini hakedecek bir hareket. Spor dediğin şey birşeyleri geliştirmek üzerinedir ve iyi olan kazanır. Kolumuz 180 derece açıkken geliştirdiğimiz herhangi bir yerimizle müsabık olamıyoruz binevi hile
Needs to be banned. Hate when someone does it. 100% desperation move
The elbow cannot be touching the pad if the shoulder is below the table. It's essentially an elbow foul XD
not only that but when you do kings move you no longer keep elbow on a pad but lower part of shoulder, plus Todd slid off the pad almost always
Sooo you are engin the one devon wrote a story of. Facts man ty for the video ✌✌
It would be interesting how good would be the kings move vs levans power
Totally agree ! Nice explanation :)
I totally agree. Well said.
very well explained
Build a table that stops that all you have to do is build a box that they can't drop under the table or gave the ref call a foul if the drop lower than the pad
just because of the geometry of the arm - if the shoulder goes below the pad -> upper limb lifts the elbow off the pad. that's an obvious foul, end of discussion
He is 100% correct, thank you my friend
the reason micheal todd and devon larret use the kings move is because both of them connot straighten their arms out naturally giving them an advantage.so not only are you trying to pull them back up from below the table, you trying to straighten an arm that cannot be straightened.
Great breakdown 👍
Engin is teacher of Armwrestling 💪💪.Grate video.
The King's move must be banned from armwrestling competitions.
it's unfair because it doesn't relate anymore on arm power, and also doesn't anymore relate to elbow leverage, but shoulder leverage, also bodyweight become an even more important factor PASSIVELY, and also the arm is already straight, if it's straight it should be a loss already, it's ARM wrestling, if your arm is already straight, your arm is already out.
I agree 100% That's a cheating "technic"
Totally agree but people like Todd still abuse this rule. Just look at the latest match against genadi, Todd's shoulder was above the pad so technically no foul, hut he was completely bone locked and the strap rolled so far out that genadi had literally nowhere to go. Eventhough the fact they are in that position shows that genadi had dominated Todd's and was the stronger man in the centre. The whole nature of this move is basically "run away and hide until the guy gasses out because I'm weaker and can't win without manipulating my bones to fight for me" this is not entertaining...we want to see the strongest guys on earth fight to see who is strongest, not who can run away the best
There is no one who ever first saw Michael Todd start dominating with it think "Yeah, that looks like armwrestling." No, it's an eye sore and an abomination to the sport.
I think King's Move looks awesome and didn't understand the hate. Now I kinda get it. Thanks Engin!
People forget that the only reason micheal had to use this move wasn't by choice, he had a bad injury and couldn't continue to armwrestle unless he developed kings move. So it's basically like making fun of a cripple having to use a wheel chair to get around.
The shoulder cannot go below the TABLE, not the PAD. Devons shoulder doesn't go under the table, micheal does. There are lots of factors that need taken apart one by one before people conclude anything.
Yes micheal should follow the rules, but he also cannot armwrestle in any other position anymore dye to a serious injury, its either that or quit and when have you ever known a champion armwrestler who has been doing this for that long to quit? I wouldn't for you.
Perfectly put.
Excellent breakdown 😉
If your shoulders drop below the pin pad it should be a pin or a foul
Great kingsmove discovered by Devon and Micheal but they can hit their move without going under the table
Can't wait for the mental gymnastics from the desperation users to dismiss this video.
Also Engin it would be nice if you could touch on the implications of this move being used by people with limited range in the arm (like in Michael's case)
@@dqreps My concern is the people with lower range get to access the leverage Engin is talking about earlier, without needing to drop as low (therefore staying inside the legal range) but someone without the lock would have to drop lower to access that same leverage.
And adding to that about the physical trait, in this case (Michael) it comes from surgery, not natural so it even makes it more questionable to me.
@@dqreps yeah I know that it's very unlikely that rules are going change in that regard, much less in WAL but I don't like the push from some personalities to try and take it out the grey area where that move lives, and try to put it in the basket of the other AW moves. And I know where they are coming from "A win is a win", "It doesn't matter if its ugly or not if you win" and all that, but still never will defend the normalization of it and everybody who has it as their go to will always have their achievements be less impressive (in my eyes anyway).
@@CossyMango it is just WAL
@@sergeysmelnik I doubt that chafee would have beaten denis
2:27 😂😂😂😂😂
Agree 100000%
King's move sometimes looks to me like one arm deadlift with a strap I might be wrong
It is easier for Michael Todd to stay above the table than for Devon because MT cannot straighten his arm so all these things that Engin was talking about Michael Todd can get in a little higher position than Devon.
Very true... If you don't have power to hold your opponent you should loose
Engin is 100 % right and devon stop making excuses. DEVON the desperato move isnt for you. Stop using it.
Best video ever!
Totally agree 💯
I’ve been saying this for years!!! Totally agree. Revise the rules and make Michael Todd come up from under the table.
well said👏👏 micheal todd and larrat are ruining the sport.bcoz i saw more and more people using desperation move..(looks ugly and has no strength benefit)
If there is any puny and weak armwrestler that pulls the kings move, or the desperation move as Engin Terzi names it, why not counter it with the same move. This will probably end up in nothing gained by both sides. But it will probably help with protesting and in changing the stupid rules which allows this in the first place.
Cannot be explained better.
Good name tho, no more kings move, desperation move is on !
Totally agree, we'll explained, sth that Devon has done many times. So for this reason Todd shouldn't be allowed to do this
Mickael Todd is king of Desperetion move, beceause is weak in Armwrestler.
3:06 abi bu hareketi Devon’a da çeker misin?
I get it. If steroids were legal, everyone would do them. (Not saying people don't use them. just using this to make a point.) Its a competition first and foremost. Use whatever you can to be the winner. Just don't pretend that you are not. Be honest. Just say yes, I had to use the kings move because I wasn't strong enough to get in a hook, and my wrist wasn't strong enough to top roll. Just come out and say that I had to use the only move I had left. Even if it is equal to kicking your opponent in the nuts or hitting them while their back us turned. Its a shitty move that works.
A very nice explanation. I'm not on any side. I'm just a fan. I think it's great to have these conversations, explanations and discussions between masters like you and Devon.
Если плечо ушло ниже подлокотника , должно даваться предупреждение так же как и при отрыве локтя ! «Кингсмув» это деградация армрестлинга