I mentioned BTS in this video a lot.. Probably shouldn't have because the thing im frustrated with is not being able to post Delivered photos to my instagram or my website for marketing purposes.
This 👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽, I’d offer a small discount something like $20-30 if they choose to allow you to post on social media, that way you incentivize the behavior you want to see rather than punish anyone for their beliefs/privacy.
Its a Yes or No it IMHO, Sometimes you just need the money so take it , If they really don't want or can't have there picture floating out there $20-$30 isn't going to make a difference to them.
So everyone is different, that said you can offer a discount on the shoot if they allow the BTS and public postings. The way that works is the initial price gets marked up so the discount doesn’t affect your bottom line. This way everyone wins.
I've included in my contract, and I explain upfront, that I may use a couple of photos for promotional purposes. So far, I haven't encountered any issues with this. If a client disagrees, we simply don't proceed with the shoot
@@RyanTroy I'm focused on attracting a specific audience who knows exactly what they're getting with me-no misunderstandings. Your work is what draws them in. With so many photographers out there, clients can pick and choose. I'm not after every job; I want the best clients for my business, so it's okay if some walk away. The right clients always come back because of my unique style. Just the other day, a potential client asked me to make her look smaller in photos-had to laugh at that one!
Ryan all you gotta do is have a conversation indicating you are new to wedding or building wedding portfolio & would like to use a few images to help promote your business when you do your sit down.. most ppl will say yes i def would not charge a fee for a booking to ensure you could.. usually you do this or take on non paying gigs or semi paying to build experience and you work that useage into your release
2:40 I don't remember who I learned it from, but never ever say "no, nah, I don't like it, not what I want" etc. to a client/model. Always give positive reinforcement even if they do something you don't like. So instead of saying "nah," you could say, "cool, I like that, now let's try this." 3:50 And it's one of many reasons I no longer book religious weddings because you're right, I spend all this time, money (I use 35mm film) to take hundreds of pictures to then not able to use them. That being said, we have what they call confidential weddings here in California, so naturally, most if not all clients who get married this way also ask for said photos to not be posted. Which is fine by me because usually I only work two-three hours compared to ten-twelve hours in a religious/traditional wedding. 5:20 I strongly recommend NOT charging extra if you cannot post said photos. Why? Because clients don't like feeling like you're scamming them, trying to make more money off them, using them as a commercial etc. Bringing us back to the sepia bride situation where the photographer stuck to her guns to push her preset pack. And it's why so called 'styled shoots' exist. Set up some models in wedding attire and use that for promotion. Half of my portfolio is made up of fake couples for that reason, because I usually book confidential weddings. I believe the easiest solution is to raise your price by $100-$200 and “discount” if they’re cool with posting said photos online. 8:19 I'm not big on Instagram and neither are the majority of clients I book, meaning, I don't post much on Instagram and again, the clients who book me appreciate that I'm not blasting them everyday online. But I get it, some people do want that little extra attention. Seems like you need to target clients who LOVE social media.
Thank you so much. So what platform do you utilize to get a lot of your clients? is it good SEO with driving them to your website? Facebook? Word of mouth?
@@RyanTroy Yes, SEO has been my main source of inquiries, clients etc. since January 2023. And it's been working well for me. But I should mention it works for me because I'm targeting a very specific client. Which funny enough, many who say SEO doesn't work is because they treat it like a hashtag and don't have a specific strategy in mind.
Firstly. I think that a lot of photographers really need to understand the law and consult a lawyer in your area to get clarification. Secondly, if your trying to build a portfolio with specific content, then a good idea is to explain to the client the significance of posting and if they don't want you to post, then don't book them. Let them know that you will post and if they don't want you to, then be confident enough to turn them away. Another client may come in their place that allows you to do as you wish. Thirdly, I think as you get enough gigs under your belt, and you have more than enough content, you tend to not care about it as much. If a client says no, then OK, no post still get paid. If they say yes, then great, post and get paid. But it becomes no big deal after awhile. And fourthly, never charge a fee to punish a client for not wanting you to post. There are no moving parts to justify it legally in most cases. And it makes you look very unprofessional and can kill your reputation.
I’m from the camp “the customers is always right.“ With that being said, I don’t use clients work to promote myself. I used Personal Projects to do so. With PP you now become the client, so you are always right and can post your work anywhere you see fit. Like in your case, learn their religion and recreate what you did with your client with other talents like models ,stylists, MUA ,and so on. That’s a good way to build a team bc they need photos too. Lindsay Adler do this one weekend every month for her content.
I would sell it as a discount. People love discounts and hate to pay more. All about the framing. So start with the higher price and then do a discount if they agree for promotional purposes.
I’m a beginner in college, and shoot with semi/pro gear. And have been doing shoot for free to create a comprehensive portfolio. But more-so for real estate, sports, and headshots. Which are generally less personal and time intensive as family/wedding.
I get not posting on social media but you absolutely should still use for your website. Because at the end of the day, you own the rights to the images unless they purchase exclusivity rights $$$
When shooting for other wedding photographers as a 2nd or 3rd, agencies ,music labels, TV studios, it's all the same fee across the board. I don't care. I charge by the day. Flat rate. I use Canon ,Nikon, Leica, Sony. Btw that's all I do. Contract work only.
Well, this is the beauty of owning your own business. I think if you have a fee, and are willing to explain the reasons and the difficulties behind the fee, most people would understand and be willing to choose to pay the fee.
I rarely ever post anything from a client session. On occasion I will get some that ask to be posted on my social media. I rather setup creative shoots to post to social media, just to avoid any conflict, and to retain their business. I was made aware of another photographer in my area, that posts all her clients images on her page and it had a lot of ppl upset by the way that she went about it. Word of mouth is powerful.
Not a bad idea. Also a good idea would be to either set a styled shoot or hiring models specifically for weddings and etc and shooting them for hour portfolio
Personally I am still learning the business side of things. From what I see online charge 50 to 150 percent of the project worth. technically when that happens your kind of giving them rights. What I normally do is just walk away until that project finally shows up. keep in mind every no is one step closer to a YES. Last year I struggled to get a project where an interview is the main thing they want. Did a spec documentary(its not completed yet) for my pops and interview type project come in more. Also consider doing spec projects if possible. Once I am free I plan doing plenty of spec project to show and grow.
Great video bro. I just got back into doing event videography and I just add to the contract that I can post it. To your point of needing those bookings you can do a few free or low budget shoots that you want to get booked for. That’s what I am in the process of. People can see my tech videos and love the quality but can relate it to me shooting their wedding as an example.
In your contract, note your possible usage along with a buyout option. If you truly want images for marketing, hire or trade with people to create the styled images that you want.
Anything you do regarding payment - do a contract. No matter what. Secondly, in my appointments I ask/talk about pictures being on my social media from my shoots. I’ve never had a client not allow me to post pictures from a shoot. If someone had an issue or that came up. Definitely hit them with a fee.
I would personally charge a fee that would reflect the value of what the images could warrant if in your portfolio. I photographers who use to be like the third shooter who took the candid shots (hiding in the bushes, taking the shots when no one realized it, etc) in order to get the real person rather than the prop. At the end of the shoot they would simply hand over the SD card and the lead photographer would had them like $500 in an envelope. They had to sign an agreement that those were the only copies, so that they couldn't use them on their personal site. Another option possibly could be is getting authorization to use the images that do not have a facial involved. I saw several of the images you shot (very nice ones) that did not identify the person other than the tattoos on the hands. Just a couple of suggestions - Great video btw Ryan :-).
Have terms up front. $50 is too low. Have a few poses for maintaining anonymity. Offer an optional clients get priority to post 1st policy, but set date deadlines(some people just want to share w public/online 1st). Offer private photos offline for an additional fee, as this is the cost to your business to develop other promotional materials. It’s a real Advertisement cost to your company to not be able to use those images. Clients should pay if they want this. Then offer that they can buy the rights to the images like that company you work for this is even more $ than before. You always retain the right to keep an “Offline” portfolio to show work you have completed, unless you NDA w someone.
As some others have said, raise prices and offer a discount for being able to use on Social Media and doing a BTS vid.. But here's an idea, why not find families in your area that just could not afford to have anyone do pictures professionally for them, and offer to do a session in exchange for social media usage.. Where I live, during the holidays for example, we have adopt a family.. Basically you adopt a family in need and help with say Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner or getting a few gifts for the kids.. Another thing, do you have military families around? Let's face it, basic level recruits aren't making a ton of money and perhaps doing a session with them would help.. This way you get images to demonstrate your skills in those genres and they get wonderful memories that they may never be able to afford.. And also, in one of the photos with the close up of the ring and roses, your shadow was in the pic.. Gotta watch that, I hate when I do it!! LOL!! :)
Been running into that frequently especially when it comes to families who have baby mama or baby daddie issues.Even down to clients ex's hitting my inbox requesting me to remove photos. I'd remove a lot and restructured my contracts so much to even not include certain types of shoots, but that increase price adjustment for not being able to post is a great idea.
One other thought, in your shoots such as a wedding offer something unique to your repertoire that encourages a response in your favor ie, tiffen filter that allows for a little extra sparkle to the shoot. People like when they think they are getting something extra. Good Luck
Hey Ryan, since I rarely photograph for a fee, I might assume things that aren't accurate. For one, when going out on a shoot like the one you're speaking about it would say in your contract that you're the sole owner of anything you photograph. In that case, I would say it's a bit easier to charge to keep the photos private. If they own the photos then obviously you can't show them or charge. However, you should do what you think is overall best for your career.
@@RyanTroy Thanks, Troy. I enjoy your work and videos. You try to keep it real and not get too crazy in either direction. I appreciate that about your videos. Since in a previous life, I worked with high dollar contracts, everything was spelled out and if not, I made sure it was before any signatures. It's not just photographers who sometime miss the obvious (despite being detailed oriented people, or should be) they aren't always business people. I'm not directing that comment at you, it's a general remark. I would think that if your situation is clearly spelled out in the contract and everyone understands that contracts are negotiable, then there shouldn't be hard feelings. Of course, we all know some who will find fault even when none exists, but that's a whole other video for you to record. Smiles. Good luck with your decision. Me, I think I would put it in the contract however, I would also explain to the client why it's important for my career and come from that angle before adding a fee. But I'm an old softie, who can get grumpy from old age. HA!
Hey Ryan. I absolutely think you are justified in charging a fee. I mean, not being able to share your previous work could cause you to lose out on work in the future, if people can't get too good of a read on your work. I know you have plenty out there to show your talent, but it's still limiting. Especially, if it's in a unique location, or weather, etc. I actually think $50 is too small of a fee. Btw, I shot my first wedding recently. I did ok, especially for not knowing I was the photographer until I was there. (It was one of my closest friends, I wasn't angry, but let him know I wasn't accepting any responsibility if they were junk. 😊) Take care my friend.
@RyanTroy I made NOTHING! HA! It's ok though. I got something out of the experience, and, wasn't under any pressure for editing the RAWs, etc. Well I don't know what your pricing structure is, but to me, for the reasons I wrote, I think $100 sounds more fair to you. They're basically covering a little loss of advertising, that you're incuring.
Make it a discount, not a penalty. People love deals not penalties. I deal with commercial and editorial clients who have a lot of similar issues. So respect the Benjamins
As far as getting event-style work, I would suggest creating a second Instagram page and only posting your event work there. I know running 1 ig page can be tedious at times and running 2 won't be any easier, but I learned certain clients will be turned off from booking you for an event based on the type of work on your page. Also having the second page will prevent your portrait page from looking disorganized.
Great video Troy. But yes to answer your question I personally believe we has photographers we should always respect our clients wishes as you never know how many more work they will bring your way based off the work you did for them and how the over all experience of working with you was. Because at the end of the day they are one that paying you. Here in the uk this is something I do/ try to do on all photoshoot in regard to capturing bts. I see it as a opportunity to show what it is like working with me as personal rather than just being there to offer a service to the client. But if the client say know. I will not share anything or even capture anything for that matter. Secondly. I’m with on using your invoice as “contract “ or aleast to state everything the client is getting and what to expect etc.what I found when I did contracts is that none of the client actually read them anyways. 😂 but yes This is something I’ve been doing for couple of years now and it works great.
Thank you! the footage part is usually only for youtube purposes but the things i want to share on instagram is the delivered photos that im not able to share.
@@RyanTroy yes I hear you and feel your pain. I did felt that way too when it first started happening to me. But then I realised it didn’t matter if they did not give permission. I just had to respect their wishes. But did happen though is a lot of those people did recommend me to their close circle of friend and colleagues etc and I made a lot more money from it so in a way I still won and benefited from working with him.
So I'll start by saying that I don't do photography professionally - it would ruin the hobby for me. That said, I do own a consulting company where we sometimes struggle with assigning value for certain services. I'd suggest this: 1) your BTS footage and social media have a value - you should try to figure out a dollar amount that best reflects the opportunity loss and make sure your overall pricing reflects it. 2) state up front that footage/excerpts from their session with you are how you gain new clients, and explain to the client that they are eligible for a discount that reflects that value in exchange for their release of the footage. 3) don't make it an all or nothing conversation - perhaps a certain discount can be given if they agree to post to their social media and tag you.
I just kinda take it on the chin, but it’s rare that I run into that situation. I don’t do a ton of bts though. Most clients understand that you sharing your work is how you make money. I do like what some of the other people have said about just raising your prices and then offering a discount.
I was about to say "don't charge more for second shooting weddings, just continue to build and get your own.." But the responses below made me shut my mouth. There are many good suggestions too. Discounting your rate in return so you can get the footage you want and need, and also do a session or two on your own to obtain your own photos I'm going to give advice I haven't done myself...create some engagement and family test shoots with friends/family or people you cast and create the content you need
When I second shoot for a wedding I always ask the main photographer if I can use my favourite 1-2 photos that “I” shot in my portfolio, even if they have to ask the bride/groom for me…usually not an issue. As far as portraits and such, I put it right in my agreement, this will be used for promotional purposes on social and my wedding site, if they don’t want to proceed then I’m not their photographer. 📸😎
You could try raising prices and offering a discount when they allow you to post or state it up front in your TNCs that you maintain the right to post ,however, if they don't want that then it comes at an extra fee as it means you'll not be able to market your business with that body of work. All the best.
I like the idea of charging more to keep pictures private…. OR. just charge more and if they want to keep private it’s no big deal because you charge more anyway
Have you thought about doing model shoots for the style of work you want to attract? I plan to do a number of shoots with models to build portfolio and website with images of work I want to attract. I also have a section in my contract for youtube with models and clients. I negotiate a discount for clients if they want to do youtube.
I would say charge for the session knowing you cannot post the photos. The work is for the client. Half my work I can’t post. I am fine with that as the images are for the client. With that said I do test shoots with people creating the images I want to sell. I suggest doing test shoots making the images you want to promote with the looks you want to showcase. Work with people or models that for your client demographic and make promotional content. This can also allow you to be more creative and try new things and not worry about it not working out or worry about messing up a client shoot. My first boudoir photos were with models and doing tests shoots that got me the portfolio I needed to get the clients I wanted. Some looked like models and some looked like average people so I could showcase my talent. I find it better to focus on the client as the client. It is a blessing if you can share the photos on your socials. Otherwise I shoot specific to promote and can be more creative and be more expressive with the promo shoots. That is my 2 cents. Spend it how you like. Great channel BTW. 😁
You should always have a contract and using the content you produce after they have received said content should be in the contract so you can use it for your portfolio be social media or whatever
Hey! I have the same problem, I have several events and most of them people asked me to not post…. I did 9 weddings this year… but I had only one that it was okay to post… I respect that, but I feel your pain… working with family is the same… not everyone wants their family pictures on the internet. What I do when they didn’t allow me to post I say: “would you be willing to make a review do I can use it, even only with your first name?” Or “I use social media to get more customers, would you mind to mention me while you showing your pictures?” That’s what I do… I hope it helps !😊
The social media posting has become rather ridiculous, even realtors are doing it at closings. I understand why some want to keep their most personal moments to themselves. I say hire models, buy some costume wedding rings and have at it if it’s critical to get that content.
I wouldn’t agree to that arrangement unless they paid a ridiculous amount (which wouldn’t be worth it for them in that case). Building my portfolio is equally important as the money paid. So I’m not cool with anyone telling me what I can or can’t do with MY photos
People have their own reasons why they may not want to share their shoot with the world. That is their right and I think it should be respected. I would never charge my customers extra to not have their shoot blasted across the internet. I think this is a bad move. Raise your prices and maybe give a discount if they allow you to use the footage is a better move.
Yes sirrrrr I’m still on the fence about it lol I didn’t do any editing to the POV footage though but I’m going to try to shoot it in log and see if I can produce a better quality video
You should do a model call for the type of photography you're trying to promote. This way you can avoid these situations. We get about two a year who will not let is post do to religion.
Raise your prices a bit and offer a small discount for those who are willing to let you use sample photos from the shoot for your social media. Those who do want you to post online will pay a bit extra for this.
@RyanTroy considering I do a lot of commercial work, yeah. But in one I had somebody request I not use the images and I told them how much and they were like, okay you can use them. This was when I was first starting out doing head shots. I was already giving a discounted rate and when they asked I told them it would be full price then.
Just some thoughts... What if they were open to posting as long as you don't show their face or identifiable elements. Then you could just obscure, crop, pose, or use AI to accommodate that. Swapping out faces, removing tattoos, birthmarks, moles, etc... could be something they would be fine with. More work for you but could be a compromise to consider.
I have a clickable option for the client to have exclusive rights to the content, showing the upsell price. It's also a question on my pre booking questionaire.
And I feel 200-500 is a fair price to start for exclusives. If they say it's too much, ask them either what amount sound reasonable to them or how close they can come to it.
Don't rely on clients for your portfolio images , because when they are paying they are the boss , start asking friends and family , or advertise Photographer looking to expand family Portrait portfolio , 50% off but Client Must be willing to sign Model release.
Did you sign any document stating that you would be giving up the rights your image or what that a provision in the contract? I am not sure is that even a legal provision. By law anything that you take you on the right to the image.
no need to add an extra fee for that... if it's in your contract terms that you will "use for promotional reasons" and they sign it then you can post any content from that session.. if they don't agree with you posting their images, then they shouldn't book. i use to come across this alot. yes its very frustrating, i would also explain to them the copyright law about public display of your the photographers work
I charge for it if the client is not willing for me to post it. Just send it out on terms of services or contracts before they pay and they can choose to pay it or not work with you at all which most of the time they say its on and those that dont want me to post the content always pay.. but 80% are ok and the 20% pay for me no to post. 1 in 15 people would have a problem with it and not book at all. But as long as they know if the begining they are usually cool with it
I would honor the clients wishes. I wouldn't charge more for it. You might put in your contracts moving forward for that option. Just to let the client know.
Hi Ryan. I’m new here. I’ll have to follow you on IG. I’m still putting together my in home photography studio. I just asked this question on another channel. Here is my idea. People don’t like to pay more sooooo my idea is to offer a discount for the social media release. I’m new to this and I’ve never done paid photography so it’s easier for me. You’d have to raise your prices across the board and then offer the discount. What do you think?
A few people suggested that and although that would probably work, I run into clients that don't read much lol they see a price and either feel they can afford it or not. many people ask me after the session is over how many photos do they get. its sad lol
Don’t put the photos on social media put them in a physical book that you’ll only show to your prospective clients privately you own the photos unless otherwise contracted.
If the client wants ownership of the images, they must pay for that privilege. I understand the religious stand point, however you should always own the finished images even if you can only use them for business purposes in say 6 months time.
So if Nike calls you , says we need you on Saturday for a shoot. 1. What are you charging them? 2. Also, they only want Canon brand gear. ? Nikon owns all images when done. $_________
@@rizz97pl I think that last statement was Nike owns all images when done? That’s a good question because that will differ I feel like. I haven’t done anything that big to even think of where to price that. I would probably reach out to someone that has to get a better way to estimate that
The simplest response is charge for your time. All of it. Travel to from, capture, edit, dealing with models and or incidentals, pre production. Everything. Bigger projects with bigger responsibility require more time. Plus I don’t want to monitor how it gets used…that takes time, so add that in. Take an 8 hour day. Figure out what you need to make the add on expenses etc and your premium based off of your time. Minutes=dollars. Collect checks and move on.
Ryan, that happens all the time. And I respect my clients wishes. What I would do is set up a styled shoot with a friend of the family or someone in the same religion for the purpose of getting portfolio photos. That is an option. If a client asks not to post the photos, I would honor their wishes as they will recommend more business to you and perhaps the next client won’t mind.
I agree with alot of other people with offering a discount if they let you film bts…OR you could offer that same discount and do a model call shoot(mini shoots) and it specifically be for content to use to market your holiday/family portraits.
I would honor it, but I will make it clear to them on private showing i will share some of the photos and on my website I will make a statement that some photos I do not share openly on social media only in person this usually works for me almust every time in cases they don't want anything share I tell them I have to charge more we call it a privacy feed thanks for sharing👍🙏
lol you’re out here critiquing other photographers but you want to charge your clients more to use the photos you own? All due respect that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The right way to go about it would be give your client a $50 discount if they allow you to use the photos from the session for marketing. You talking about running as a business, but don’t have a business mindset. Again all due respect. Just some tips for you.
I mentioned BTS in this video a lot.. Probably shouldn't have because the thing im frustrated with is not being able to post Delivered photos to my instagram or my website for marketing purposes.
Just raise your price across the board, and offer a discount if they are ok with posting their pics.
Definitely
This 👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽, I’d offer a small discount something like $20-30 if they choose to allow you to post on social media, that way you incentivize the behavior you want to see rather than punish anyone for their beliefs/privacy.
@@astephen8833 I wouldnot allow social media because I want to save $20-30... A significant discount will be more effective..
I was gonna say this too🎯💯
Its a Yes or No it IMHO, Sometimes you just need the money so take it , If they really don't want or can't have there picture floating out there $20-$30 isn't going to make a difference to them.
So everyone is different, that said you can offer a discount on the shoot if they allow the BTS and public postings. The way that works is the initial price gets marked up so the discount doesn’t affect your bottom line. This way everyone wins.
I've included in my contract, and I explain upfront, that I may use a couple of photos for promotional purposes. So far, I haven't encountered any issues with this. If a client disagrees, we simply don't proceed with the shoot
So you are willing to walk away from the money bro?
@@RyanTroy I'm focused on attracting a specific audience who knows exactly what they're getting with me-no misunderstandings. Your work is what draws them in. With so many photographers out there, clients can pick and choose. I'm not after every job; I want the best clients for my business, so it's okay if some walk away. The right clients always come back because of my unique style. Just the other day, a potential client asked me to make her look smaller in photos-had to laugh at that one!
Ryan all you gotta do is have a conversation indicating you are new to wedding or building wedding portfolio & would like to use a few images to help promote your business when you do your sit down.. most ppl will say yes i def would not charge a fee for a booking to ensure you could.. usually you do this or take on non paying gigs or semi paying to build experience and you work that useage into your release
2:40 I don't remember who I learned it from, but never ever say "no, nah, I don't like it, not what I want" etc. to a client/model. Always give positive reinforcement even if they do something you don't like. So instead of saying "nah," you could say, "cool, I like that, now let's try this."
3:50 And it's one of many reasons I no longer book religious weddings because you're right, I spend all this time, money (I use 35mm film) to take hundreds of pictures to then not able to use them. That being said, we have what they call confidential weddings here in California, so naturally, most if not all clients who get married this way also ask for said photos to not be posted. Which is fine by me because usually I only work two-three hours compared to ten-twelve hours in a religious/traditional wedding.
5:20 I strongly recommend NOT charging extra if you cannot post said photos. Why? Because clients don't like feeling like you're scamming them, trying to make more money off them, using them as a commercial etc. Bringing us back to the sepia bride situation where the photographer stuck to her guns to push her preset pack. And it's why so called 'styled shoots' exist. Set up some models in wedding attire and use that for promotion. Half of my portfolio is made up of fake couples for that reason, because I usually book confidential weddings. I believe the easiest solution is to raise your price by $100-$200 and “discount” if they’re cool with posting said photos online.
8:19 I'm not big on Instagram and neither are the majority of clients I book, meaning, I don't post much on Instagram and again, the clients who book me appreciate that I'm not blasting them everyday online. But I get it, some people do want that little extra attention. Seems like you need to target clients who LOVE social media.
Thank you so much. So what platform do you utilize to get a lot of your clients? is it good SEO with driving them to your website? Facebook? Word of mouth?
I was just think this? I heard this as well
well said
@@RyanTroy Yes, SEO has been my main source of inquiries, clients etc. since January 2023. And it's been working well for me. But I should mention it works for me because I'm targeting a very specific client. Which funny enough, many who say SEO doesn't work is because they treat it like a hashtag and don't have a specific strategy in mind.
Firstly. I think that a lot of photographers really need to understand the law and consult a lawyer in your area to get clarification. Secondly, if your trying to build a portfolio with specific content, then a good idea is to explain to the client the significance of posting and if they don't want you to post, then don't book them. Let them know that you will post and if they don't want you to, then be confident enough to turn them away. Another client may come in their place that allows you to do as you wish. Thirdly, I think as you get enough gigs under your belt, and you have more than enough content, you tend to not care about it as much. If a client says no, then OK, no post still get paid. If they say yes, then great, post and get paid. But it becomes no big deal after awhile. And fourthly, never charge a fee to punish a client for not wanting you to post. There are no moving parts to justify it legally in most cases. And it makes you look very unprofessional and can kill your reputation.
I’m from the camp “the customers is always right.“ With that being said, I don’t use clients work to promote myself. I used Personal Projects to do so. With PP you now become the client, so you are always right and can post your work anywhere you see fit. Like in your case, learn their religion and recreate what you did with your client with other talents like models ,stylists, MUA ,and so on. That’s a good way to build a team bc they need photos too. Lindsay Adler do this one weekend every month for her content.
I agree with this! I have a session i am about to recreate as well from something i couldn't post!
I would sell it as a discount. People love discounts and hate to pay more. All about the framing.
So start with the higher price and then do a discount if they agree for promotional purposes.
Thats a great idea as well!
I’m a beginner in college, and shoot with semi/pro gear. And have been doing shoot for free to create a comprehensive portfolio. But more-so for real estate, sports, and headshots. Which are generally less personal and time intensive as family/wedding.
I get not posting on social media but you absolutely should still use for your website. Because at the end of the day, you own the rights to the images unless they purchase exclusivity rights $$$
When shooting for other wedding photographers as a 2nd or 3rd, agencies ,music labels, TV studios, it's all the same fee across the board. I don't care. I charge by the day. Flat rate. I use Canon ,Nikon, Leica, Sony. Btw that's all I do. Contract work only.
Same. I stopped caring about the sharing years ago. Income is income.
Well, this is the beauty of owning your own business. I think if you have a fee, and are willing to explain the reasons and the difficulties behind the fee, most people would understand and be willing to choose to pay the fee.
I rarely ever post anything from a client session. On occasion I will get some that ask to be posted on my social media. I rather setup creative shoots to post to social media, just to avoid any conflict, and to retain their business. I was made aware of another photographer in my area, that posts all her clients images on her page and it had a lot of ppl upset by the way that she went about it. Word of mouth is powerful.
Not a bad idea. Also a good idea would be to either set a styled shoot or hiring models specifically for weddings and etc and shooting them for hour portfolio
True!
Personally I am still learning the business side of things. From what I see online charge 50 to 150 percent of the project worth. technically when that happens your kind of giving them rights. What I normally do is just walk away until that project finally shows up. keep in mind every no is one step closer to a YES. Last year I struggled to get a project where an interview is the main thing they want. Did a spec documentary(its not completed yet) for my pops and interview type project come in more. Also consider doing spec projects if possible. Once I am free I plan doing plenty of spec project to show and grow.
Great video bro. I just got back into doing event videography and I just add to the contract that I can post it.
To your point of needing those bookings you can do a few free or low budget shoots that you want to get booked for. That’s what I am in the process of.
People can see my tech videos and love the quality but can relate it to me shooting their wedding as an example.
Facts and that's a good idea! i'm going to have to find some couple and offer them free shoots.
In your contract, note your possible usage along with a buyout option. If you truly want images for marketing, hire or trade with people to create the styled images that you want.
Anything you do regarding payment - do a contract. No matter what.
Secondly, in my appointments I ask/talk about pictures being on my social media from my shoots. I’ve never had a client not allow me to post pictures from a shoot.
If someone had an issue or that came up. Definitely hit them with a fee.
I would personally charge a fee that would reflect the value of what the images could warrant if in your portfolio. I photographers who use to be like the third shooter who took the candid shots (hiding in the bushes, taking the shots when no one realized it, etc) in order to get the real person rather than the prop. At the end of the shoot they would simply hand over the SD card and the lead photographer would had them like $500 in an envelope. They had to sign an agreement that those were the only copies, so that they couldn't use them on their personal site. Another option possibly could be is getting authorization to use the images that do not have a facial involved. I saw several of the images you shot (very nice ones) that did not identify the person other than the tattoos on the hands. Just a couple of suggestions - Great video btw Ryan :-).
Have terms up front. $50 is too low. Have a few poses for maintaining anonymity. Offer an optional clients get priority to post 1st policy, but set date deadlines(some people just want to share w public/online 1st). Offer private photos offline for an additional fee, as this is the cost to your business to develop other promotional materials. It’s a real Advertisement cost to your company to not be able to use those images. Clients should pay if they want this. Then offer that they can buy the rights to the images like that company you work for this is even more $ than before. You always retain the right to keep an “Offline” portfolio to show work you have completed, unless you NDA w someone.
As some others have said, raise prices and offer a discount for being able to use on Social Media and doing a BTS vid.. But here's an idea, why not find families in your area that just could not afford to have anyone do pictures professionally for them, and offer to do a session in exchange for social media usage.. Where I live, during the holidays for example, we have adopt a family.. Basically you adopt a family in need and help with say Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner or getting a few gifts for the kids.. Another thing, do you have military families around? Let's face it, basic level recruits aren't making a ton of money and perhaps doing a session with them would help.. This way you get images to demonstrate your skills in those genres and they get wonderful memories that they may never be able to afford.. And also, in one of the photos with the close up of the ring and roses, your shadow was in the pic.. Gotta watch that, I hate when I do it!! LOL!! :)
Been running into that frequently especially when it comes to families who have baby mama or baby daddie issues.Even down to clients ex's hitting my inbox requesting me to remove photos. I'd remove a lot and restructured my contracts so much to even not include certain types of shoots, but that increase price adjustment for not being able to post is a great idea.
Mannnnnn I FELT that!
One other thought, in your shoots such as a wedding offer something unique to your repertoire that encourages a response in your favor ie, tiffen filter that allows for a little extra sparkle to the shoot.
People like when they think they are getting something extra. Good Luck
Hey Ryan, since I rarely photograph for a fee, I might assume things that aren't accurate. For one, when going out on a shoot like the one you're speaking about it would say in your contract that you're the sole owner of anything you photograph. In that case, I would say it's a bit easier to charge to keep the photos private. If they own the photos then obviously you can't show them or charge. However, you should do what you think is overall best for your career.
@@MichaelCantwell to be honest i reallllllllly like how you worded that.
@@RyanTroy Thanks, Troy. I enjoy your work and videos. You try to keep it real and not get too crazy in either direction. I appreciate that about your videos. Since in a previous life, I worked with high dollar contracts, everything was spelled out and if not, I made sure it was before any signatures. It's not just photographers who sometime miss the obvious (despite being detailed oriented people, or should be) they aren't always business people. I'm not directing that comment at you, it's a general remark. I would think that if your situation is clearly spelled out in the contract and everyone understands that contracts are negotiable, then there shouldn't be hard feelings. Of course, we all know some who will find fault even when none exists, but that's a whole other video for you to record. Smiles. Good luck with your decision. Me, I think I would put it in the contract however, I would also explain to the client why it's important for my career and come from that angle before adding a fee. But I'm an old softie, who can get grumpy from old age. HA!
Hey Ryan. I absolutely think you are justified in charging a fee. I mean, not being able to share your previous work could cause you to lose out on work in the future, if people can't get too good of a read on your work. I know you have plenty out there to show your talent, but it's still limiting. Especially, if it's in a unique location, or weather, etc.
I actually think $50 is too small of a fee.
Btw, I shot my first wedding recently. I did ok, especially for not knowing I was the photographer until I was there. (It was one of my closest friends, I wasn't angry, but let him know I wasn't accepting any responsibility if they were junk. 😊)
Take care my friend.
@@Pantheragem lol did you make good money? And what do you suggest besides $50
@RyanTroy I made NOTHING! HA! It's ok though. I got something out of the experience, and, wasn't under any pressure for editing the RAWs, etc.
Well I don't know what your pricing structure is, but to me, for the reasons I wrote, I think $100 sounds more fair to you. They're basically covering a little loss of advertising, that you're incuring.
Amazing section🔥
🙌
Make it a discount, not a penalty. People love deals not penalties. I deal with commercial and editorial clients who have a lot of similar issues. So respect the Benjamins
Great Idea!
Great Videos brother! I would definitely charge for not being able to market to a genre of clients. I would say $50 is a little on the low end.
Thank you!
As far as getting event-style work, I would suggest creating a second Instagram page and only posting your event work there. I know running 1 ig page can be tedious at times and running 2 won't be any easier, but I learned certain clients will be turned off from booking you for an event based on the type of work on your page. Also having the second page will prevent your portrait page from looking disorganized.
Great video Troy.
But yes to answer your question I personally believe we has photographers we should always respect our clients wishes as you never know how many more work they will bring your way based off the work you did for them and how the over all experience of working with you was. Because at the end of the day they are one that paying you.
Here in the uk this is something I do/ try to do on all photoshoot in regard to capturing bts. I see it as a opportunity to show what it is like working with me as personal rather than just being there to offer a service to the client.
But if the client say know. I will not share anything or even capture anything for that matter.
Secondly. I’m with on using your invoice as “contract “ or aleast to state everything the client is getting and what to expect etc.what I found when I did contracts is that none of the client actually read them anyways. 😂 but yes This is something I’ve been doing for couple of years now and it works great.
Thank you! the footage part is usually only for youtube purposes but the things i want to share on instagram is the delivered photos that im not able to share.
@@RyanTroy yes I hear you and feel your pain. I did felt that way too when it first started happening to me. But then I realised it didn’t matter if they did not give permission. I just had to respect their wishes. But did happen though is a lot of those people did recommend me to their close circle of friend and colleagues etc and I made a lot more money from it so in a way I still won and benefited from working with him.
So I'll start by saying that I don't do photography professionally - it would ruin the hobby for me. That said, I do own a consulting company where we sometimes struggle with assigning value for certain services. I'd suggest this: 1) your BTS footage and social media have a value - you should try to figure out a dollar amount that best reflects the opportunity loss and make sure your overall pricing reflects it. 2) state up front that footage/excerpts from their session with you are how you gain new clients, and explain to the client that they are eligible for a discount that reflects that value in exchange for their release of the footage. 3) don't make it an all or nothing conversation - perhaps a certain discount can be given if they agree to post to their social media and tag you.
I just kinda take it on the chin, but it’s rare that I run into that situation. I don’t do a ton of bts though. Most clients understand that you sharing your work is how you make money. I do like what some of the other people have said about just raising your prices and then offering a discount.
Part thats crazy is I rarely run into this when it comes to things that aren't family photos engagement sessions and maternity
I was about to say "don't charge more for second shooting weddings, just continue to build and get your own.." But the responses below made me shut my mouth. There are many good suggestions too. Discounting your rate in return so you can get the footage you want and need, and also do a session or two on your own to obtain your own photos
I'm going to give advice I haven't done myself...create some engagement and family test shoots with friends/family or people you cast and create the content you need
100%. I don't do lates, I am always on set 1 hour before the shoot schedule.
I worded that so wrong.. like In my head i was thinking something else and said the wrong thing but what i meant was my fee for going over your time.
@@RyanTroy Nope you are right. Mate.
When I second shoot for a wedding I always ask the main photographer if I can use my favourite 1-2 photos that “I” shot in my portfolio, even if they have to ask the bride/groom for me…usually not an issue.
As far as portraits and such, I put it right in my agreement, this will be used for promotional purposes on social and my wedding site, if they don’t want to proceed then I’m not their photographer. 📸😎
Oh wow! you will walk away from the money bro?!
@@RyanTroy sometimes dude, everyone isn’t always your client.
@@JasonLorette I guess you've got alot of clients to do that... I would not advice fledglings to do that.
@@joshmcdzz6925 ha ha not at all.
You could try raising prices and offering a discount when they allow you to post or state it up front in your TNCs that you maintain the right to post ,however, if they don't want that then it comes at an extra fee as it means you'll not be able to market your business with that body of work. All the best.
when I develop a new Genre, I just book professional models , very simple, no headache.
I like the idea of charging more to keep pictures private…. OR. just charge more and if they want to keep private it’s no big deal because you charge more anyway
Yes charge but I wouldnt state it within the invoice. I’d say only throw the price tag out when they mention it.
Great Idea!
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Have you thought about doing model shoots for the style of work you want to attract? I plan to do a number of shoots with models to build portfolio and website with images of work I want to attract. I also have a section in my contract for youtube with models and clients. I negotiate a discount for clients if they want to do youtube.
That is what im going to have to do!
Maybe see if you can post on your website only (even password protected)?
@@stkuj yeah I tried it but they don’t want them online at all.
For starters, im a Canon guy but anyway. If its a consistent trend, id make a discount if they allow you to use the images for social media.
A respected photographer will always get more work.
True!
I would say charge for the session knowing you cannot post the photos. The work is for the client. Half my work I can’t post. I am fine with that as the images are for the client. With that said I do test shoots with people creating the images I want to sell. I suggest doing test shoots making the images you want to promote with the looks you want to showcase. Work with people or models that for your client demographic and make promotional content. This can also allow you to be more creative and try new things and not worry about it not working out or worry about messing up a client shoot.
My first boudoir photos were with models and doing tests shoots that got me the portfolio I needed to get the clients I wanted. Some looked like models and some looked like average people so I could showcase my talent.
I find it better to focus on the client as the client. It is a blessing if you can share the photos on your socials. Otherwise I shoot specific to promote and can be more creative and be more expressive with the promo shoots.
That is my 2 cents. Spend it how you like.
Great channel BTW. 😁
You should always have a contract and using the content you produce after they have received said content should be in the contract so you can use it for your portfolio be social media or whatever
True!
Hey! I have the same problem, I have several events and most of them people asked me to not post…. I did 9 weddings this year… but I had only one that it was okay to post… I respect that, but I feel your pain… working with family is the same… not everyone wants their family pictures on the internet. What I do when they didn’t allow me to post I say: “would you be willing to make a review do I can use it, even only with your first name?” Or “I use social media to get more customers, would you mind to mention me while you showing your pictures?” That’s what I do… I hope it helps !😊
It does! Thank you!
The social media posting has become rather ridiculous, even realtors are doing it at closings. I understand why some want to keep their most personal moments to themselves. I say hire models, buy some costume wedding rings and have at it if it’s critical to get that content.
True. I think that is the path I am going to have to take!
I wouldn’t agree to that arrangement unless they paid a ridiculous amount (which wouldn’t be worth it for them in that case). Building my portfolio is equally important as the money paid. So I’m not cool with anyone telling me what I can or can’t do with MY photos
Agreed!
People have their own reasons why they may not want to share their shoot with the world. That is their right and I think it should be respected. I would never charge my customers extra to not have their shoot blasted across the internet. I think this is a bad move. Raise your prices and maybe give a discount if they allow you to use the footage is a better move.
I was referring to the final photos delivered not video.
Mate, a model releases page is incorporated in my contract, so they sign it up front. So they can question it upfront.
is that the bts with the gopro?!
Yes sirrrrr I’m still on the fence about it lol I didn’t do any editing to the POV footage though but I’m going to try to shoot it in log and see if I can produce a better quality video
@@RyanTroy nah bro it’s looks dope! Great video too
@@IAmJadoreTV thanks bro!
Have them purchase an all exclusive license and charge an arm an a leg, since you can't use the photos from that point forward
You should do a model call for the type of photography you're trying to promote. This way you can avoid these situations. We get about two a year who will not let is post do to religion.
Raise your prices a bit and offer a small discount for those who are willing to let you use sample photos from the shoot for your social media. Those who do want you to post online will pay a bit extra for this.
I would add the usage fee. $50 is cheap though, maybe at most $200. That way once you get content, you have your new price point
Usage Fee.. I like that. Have you had to incorporate this into your business?
@RyanTroy considering I do a lot of commercial work, yeah. But in one I had somebody request I not use the images and I told them how much and they were like, okay you can use them. This was when I was first starting out doing head shots. I was already giving a discounted rate and when they asked I told them it would be full price then.
Just some thoughts... What if they were open to posting as long as you don't show their face or identifiable elements. Then you could just obscure, crop, pose, or use AI to accommodate that. Swapping out faces, removing tattoos, birthmarks, moles, etc... could be something they would be fine with. More work for you but could be a compromise to consider.
I never thought about that..
I have a clickable option for the client to have exclusive rights to the content, showing the upsell price. It's also a question on my pre booking questionaire.
And I feel 200-500 is a fair price to start for exclusives. If they say it's too much, ask them either what amount sound reasonable to them or how close they can come to it.
Also make any stipulations known. Being shady and hiding stuff in fine print is 🤮
I have it in my contract but I do ask out of common courtesy 🤷🏾♂️
Can you further explain the verbiage of that part of the contract.
Don't rely on clients for your portfolio images , because when they are paying they are the boss , start asking friends and family , or advertise Photographer looking to expand family Portrait portfolio , 50% off but Client Must be willing to sign Model release.
Did you sign any document stating that you would be giving up the rights your image or what that a provision in the contract? I am not sure is that even a legal provision. By law anything that you take you on the right to the image.
For the wedding that I did for for the clients I book that ask me not to post it to social media?
no need to add an extra fee for that... if it's in your contract terms that you will "use for promotional reasons" and they sign it then you can post any content from that session.. if they don't agree with you posting their images, then they shouldn't book. i use to come across this alot. yes its very frustrating, i would also explain to them the copyright law about public display of your the photographers work
I charge for it if the client is not willing for me to post it. Just send it out on terms of services or contracts before they pay and they can choose to pay it or not work with you at all which most of the time they say its on and those that dont want me to post the content always pay.. but 80% are ok and the 20% pay for me no to post. 1 in 15 people would have a problem with it and not book at all. But as long as they know if the begining they are usually cool with it
I would honor the clients wishes. I wouldn't charge more for it. You might put in your contracts moving forward for that option. Just to let the client know.
Hi Ryan. I’m new here. I’ll have to follow you on IG. I’m still putting together my in home photography studio. I just asked this question on another channel. Here is my idea. People don’t like to pay more sooooo my idea is to offer a discount for the social media release. I’m new to this and I’ve never done paid photography so it’s easier for me. You’d have to raise your prices across the board and then offer the discount. What do you think?
A few people suggested that and although that would probably work, I run into clients that don't read much lol they see a price and either feel they can afford it or not. many people ask me after the session is over how many photos do they get. its sad lol
Don’t put the photos on social media put them in a physical book that you’ll only show to your prospective clients privately you own the photos unless otherwise contracted.
Hire some models for your portfolio.
If the client wants ownership of the images, they must pay for that privilege. I understand the religious stand point, however you should always own the finished images even if you can only use them for business purposes in say 6 months time.
i agree
So if Nike calls you , says we need you on Saturday for a shoot.
1. What are you charging them?
2. Also, they only want Canon brand gear. ?
Nikon owns all images when done.
$_________
@@rizz97pl I think that last statement was Nike owns all images when done? That’s a good question because that will differ I feel like. I haven’t done anything that big to even think of where to price that. I would probably reach out to someone that has to get a better way to estimate that
@@rizz97pl but I’ll pin it so others can answer
@rizz97pl as somebody that does commercial work there isn't enough information in this scenario to give an accurate quote
The simplest response is charge for your time. All of it. Travel to from, capture, edit, dealing with models and or incidentals, pre production. Everything.
Bigger projects with bigger responsibility require more time. Plus I don’t want to monitor how it gets used…that takes time, so add that in. Take an 8 hour day. Figure out what you need to make the add on expenses etc and your premium based off of your time. Minutes=dollars. Collect checks and move on.
Ryan, that happens all the time. And I respect my clients wishes. What I would do is set up a styled shoot with a friend of the family or someone in the same religion for the purpose of getting portfolio photos. That is an option. If a client asks not to post the photos, I would honor their wishes as they will recommend more business to you and perhaps the next client won’t mind.
Use a contract to help in situations like this.
I agree with alot of other people with offering a discount if they let you film bts…OR you could offer that same discount and do a model call shoot(mini shoots) and it specifically be for content to use to market your holiday/family portraits.
Yeah, the bts I really don't care about but the photos from the session. Honestly I don't know why I even kept mentioning bts in this video.
I would honor it, but I will make it clear to them on private showing i will share some of the photos and on my website I will make a statement that some photos I do not share openly on social media only in person this usually works for me almust every time in cases they don't want anything share I tell them I have to charge more we call it a privacy feed
thanks for sharing👍🙏
lol you’re out here critiquing other photographers but you want to charge your clients more to use the photos you own? All due respect that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The right way to go about it would be give your client a $50 discount if they allow you to use the photos from the session for marketing. You talking about running as a business, but don’t have a business mindset. Again all due respect. Just some tips for you.