Adam, I often play and can be silly in your comment section, but I want you to know how grateful I am for you, your channel, and all the things you are documenting that have been largely ignored for decades. Thank you.
@@RareClassicCars “Carpenter” here.. I’ll second this. There’s sooooo much car content out in TH-cam world. Most of it makes me cringe at how long it takes to hammer a car back to life during a “barn find”. An hour and a half? Test light on the points, file if necessary or replace.. fill the floats from a squirt bottle with a healthy shot down the throat, and send it. I digress. Nobody else is getting into this nuance, on cars that were once everyday, but are now largely forgotten. So, Adam thanks for bringing us strange, unique, and even quirky knowledge that nobody else does.
I had a 2005 GTO w/a 6 speed manual. It was a lot of fun, relatively cheap and had a more smooth, organic look than other Pontiacs from that era. There were several in my area, all different colors.
I think it was a good idea, but it already looked 10yrs. old when released. Bland and Sunfire looking. But then again, Pontiac and GM was trying to stay afloat by then.
I also see a Dodge Intrepid in this. Then looking at the front of it, I would have to say it is also Front-WRONG-Wheel-Drive. WHich should never carry the name of a Muscle car. Signed-Richard.
@@daveh2612 Nice catch. These at least looked good on something even if the car does need improvement like this one. It isn't completely ugly, but it still needs some help.
I grew up coveting 4th gen F-bodies. I miss when sports cars were sleek/contemporary not just retro boomer nostalgia. Now because the Camaro goes on "hiatus" every decade it has to "look like a Camaro" when it comes back again. 🤦♂
The 99 is the newest(ugliest) generation of Camaros...! The 88 looks like a fourth generation F-body except for the greenhouse... It looks like an Eagle Talon/Eclipse/ Plymouth...! Anyone remember the Plymouth version of the first Eclipse...? What was its name...?!
Another informative video…thanks Adam. The Yellow concept GTO looks a lot like the Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon. A lot of the design cues are similar to the F bodies that were produced.
The problem with this GTO concept car is the fact that it is based on the front wheel drive chevy berreta L body platform as You point out in Your video! Great information and great video!
Yes! That similarity with the abominations of soapboxes being LH! Brrrrrrrr... The ugly car craze was on it's all time highest. Aztek and Renault Logan look funny and interesting beside them...
@@harlequintheserpent7016 Still think the LH cars and other "soapbox" cars of the 90s were a huge improvements over the dull, slab sided bricks that we had been getting for the past 15 years out of Detroit.
@@melvinharris7859 Sure bricks were boring as heck and as anemic as asphyxiated snakes, but, at least, you could fit in them right being over 5' tall and they had some actual suspension travel and ground clearance so that your ride wasn't constantly followed with those belly rubs and bumpstop slams. Also, putting the steering rack on a shelf below the windshield was just a brilliant idea, serviceability... is none. And Toyota amongst the others had come up with a similar design... Brilliant, let's just copy each other's engineering blunders untill all the cars end up... Wait, we're already there.
@@harlequintheserpent7016 None of the stuff you brought up is exclusive to or started with round cars. The majority of the vehicles produced during the 1980s fit all of those descriptors. Take the General Motors X, A, J, and C-Body cars of the 1980s. Or take your pick from any Asian import of the time. Or the extremely successful and mass produced Chrysler K-Cars. All square designs. All with steering racks mounted behind the motor, low ground clearance, and limited suspension travel. Auto makers sold millions of these cars. Additionally, cars didn't get any more cramped inside when the round era of design came around, if anything it was the opposite, if you actually took the time to look at some interior measurement figures for various cars of the two eras. Take for example, a 1985 Chevrolet Cavalier, and a 1995 Chevrolet Cavalier. Two common mass produced GM vehicles of the eras. Both on the J-Body platform. One with square styling and one with rounded, aerodynamic styling. For the '95, we have 39" of front headroom, and 42.3" of front legroom. As well as 54.9" of front shoulder room. For the '85, we have 38.6" of front headroom, 42.2" of front legroom, and 53.7" of front shoulder room. The '95 is larger inside in every dimension. You'll find the more cars you look at, that this holds true for the vast majority of vehicles produced. It sounds to me like your issue is less so with round cars, and moreso with FWD cars, since all the stuff you listed is just stuff that most FWD cars suffer from, regardless of when they were made or what the exterior styling looks like. Both the two major RWD old-school cars of the square-car era continued to be produced into the 1990s with updated aerodynamic bodywork, all while gaining increased interior space and retaining the same long-travel suspension and the same ground clearance as older models. And a front-steer design. But I suppose I wasn't expecting much from the guy who is arguing in favor of square malaise era cars.
@@melvinharris7859 Sure as heck, that has more to do with the FWD layout than with the outer shell design. My bad for not putting the point, that malaise era boxes I was comparing LHs with were all RWD. Especially my favourites - the Panther platform, which, being born in malaise era, happily lived out of it to become a bit less anemic and be the last classic body-on-frame sedans in existence. Exception from the FWD rule I've encountered were the Toronados and the Rivieras, in them you seem to have all the space you want - and some extra. Gutless, characterless due to FWD, but, at least, your eyes didn't reside right in front of the windshield frame and the visor, like in Corvettes and T-birds.
Thank you for another interesting, well-presented video. In the late 1980s I worked for a promotion company that did on-site displays for various GM makes. One day in the warehouse I spotted a Grand Am coupe that had been modified with a deep dual grille front end and the letters GTO in one of the openings. It had the twin-cam four-cylinder and a 5-speed and was fully operational (it could be driven from the trailer to the display setup.) I was told that it had been a prototype but was now likely headed to the crusher. This was before cellphone cameras so all I have is the memory of spotting that unknown GTO / Grand Am.
I think that yellow GTO concept looks excellent: It's graceful, being without the misproportioned high trunk that so many other cars use to be aerodynamic. And the yellow with black are refreshingly different. The front 3/4 view reminds me a bit of the 1995-99 Riviera.
Absolutely, it looks a lot like a Riviera for sure. Even the trim on the rear bumper is near identical. I wonder if they were planning on using the same chassis, since they were already using it on the Oldsmobile Aurora as well.
I think it’s a great looking car for that time, but I think that traditionalists would have fell over and got up screaming “what a disgrace” and knowing GM of the time, top engine probably would have been a 2.8. It’s probably best that they had not produced this car and called it a GTO. They could have produced it and called it something else I’m sure it would have done extremely well.
A nice looking concept, but I doubt there was (or ever will be) a market hungry for a front wheel drive GTO. The '99 GTO concept looks like it morphed into the production '07 Camaro. Thanks Adam, great content as always!😁
this concept has a dodge stealth look to it that's what jumped out at me about it. The radius in the upper door is very distinctive like you pointed out, once people found out the 2004 GTO was a imported Australian design with Pontiac cosmetics it lost it's credibility with purists who had the money to afford it I would think. I remember in 1980's Pontiac did a SD4 powered Grand Am engineering exercise thought to possibly be the 1987 GTO. obviously it didn't come to fruition certainly because of the front wheel drive aspect it also being a 4 cyl. didn't help either. It made 300hp If I remember correctly.
I never understood the “loss of credibility” because it was a rebadged Monaro. So what? GM actually sold the Monaro under the Chevrolet badge in the Middle East for awhile. It’s a rear drive LS-powered coupe. Does it really matter that it was an Aussie design?
You said that the 74 was just a gussied up Ventura, remember that the earlier Goats were just gussied up Lemans. I liked the 74s, but then I am of the age that I remember when they were new.
Sadly, the Ventura was just a gussied up Chevy Nova with the front and rear changed to Pontiac themes. Pretty much the rest of the car was Nova, excepting the drivetrain. At least they still used Pontiac engines back then. 1973 and before were on the Lemans, which looked significantly different from the Malibu.
@@michaeloliver2337 As cool as Camaros and Firebirds were, there wasn’t a whole lot of difference between them. Especially after 1981. After which they went all Chevy powered. Yuck.
The first GTO concept look more muscular and aggressive. The second one look a bit too sleek and low slung so they probably use that design on the latest Firebird or Trans Am. The first one possibly used that on the latest Camaro.
Adam - suggestion for a video: the creation of the Grand Ville. I read somewhere that it was an interesting amalgam of parts from both B and C bodies. Great result, and I'd love to know more about how they created this big handsome beast that still managed to look downright sporty next to the other big C bodies of its day. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Adam. This video was quite interesting. I do not recall this concept or design proposal. I liked the information. I thank you for sharing the early 1970's GTO that failed. I liked that you mentioned the Holden based GTO and mentioning how it came from Holden and how it was introduced. The enthusiasts like the 2004-2006 GTO now. There are a bunch of You Tube videos for that car. This video was quite good.
I had an '05 GTO, and that car was fun as hell! Total sleeper. Most folks thought it was a GrandAm, and didn't attract a lot of attention from the police. Wish I woulda kept it...
Adam, to let you know just how spoiled you’ve made me with these quality productions, I find myself hugely disappointed if I find you haven’t uploaded a new one…EVERY day! Thanks for that…I guess!😜
Thanks, Adam! Never had heard or seen this GTO study before - fascinating how Pontiac still had enthusiasts ( at least at GM Design Staff ) trying to bring back their performance chops. Your site is the ONLY place we can get this kind of info. Don't mean to pick nits - but just for the accurate historical record, John DeLorean was not Pontiac General Manager, but was Chief Engineer at Pontiac when he and his assistant, Bill Collins developed the GTO. Bunkie Knudsen was Pontiac GM. A bit later, Bunkie was "kicked upstairs" to run Chevrolet after having resurrected Pontiac sales and DeLorean was promoted to Pontiac GM. Jim Wangers worked at McManus, John & Adam - Pontiac's advertising agency and became the GTO's promotional godfather and was behind creating the car's larger-than-life mythos that we all know today.
Great photo of your Pontiac at the GM Technical Centre. I have been lucky enough to visit there twice. Once to film Harley Earl’s office with Mike Simcoe and last year to film and ride in the LeSabre. My favourite all time dream car. 👍That later GTO concept looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse.
When I worked at the Pontiac/olds/Cadillac dealer in 99-01, we had a customer who rebadged a supercharged 3800 powered Grand Prix as a gto. Those were in my opinion one of tge best looking, driving and handling cars that gm has made since the muscle car era
As someone who was a subscriber to Motor Trend back then,(and Detroit Auto Show enthusiast) I have to say this is the one concept car that I have no memory of. And GM stuff was always in your face.
Important to note that in the 60’s GM had a rule about what engine displacement sizes could be in what cars (something along those lines). Meaning small and mid sized cars, like the LeMans, the Ventura, Chevrolet’s Chevelle and even Corvette (mostly), couldn’t have a bigger and more powerful engines. However, Delorean found a loophole in GMs rules that allowed cars with option packages to have upgraded, larger engines. So the GTO was that option package, but after the first two years of it being so successful, GM slacked on the rules a bit to allow the GTO to become its own car, and allowed other cars like the Chevelle to have larger engines (still limited to a degree until 1970).
I love this GTO from the 80s. I think they should've put it out because people would've really liked it at that time. It is a beautiful car. I'd drive that now
Ahoy Adam! I've never seen this concept! I really enjoy the "optimistic future" designs of the 80s, and the first car this one reminded me of was the super sleek, Saturn SC1 coupe. Always thought they were cool, kinda small, but offered great looks of a Firebird-type car for guys with a tight budget on a 7/8ths scale. Never was able to own one, but admired them, and their later innovative 3rd "half door" to make access to the rear easier. Saturn deserves a series I think, made some real innovations when GM could still afford to experiment, and I was sad to seem them go away before I was able to join the "cult" of Saturn that Gm created, with its annual customer picnics, unique dealership structure, etc. I really thought GM was reinventing both the car and sales experience, and I think, it was in fact better! If Saturn had been allowed to grow and mature like Kia, Hyundai have, imagine what great cars they would be building today. Thanks again for your rare photos and info and thoughtful insights!
I remember that 1999 GTO concept, which was really well received. Of course it was over the top, but onced toned down for production and a powerful V8 it would have sold well. The 1988 concept GTO wouldnt have gone anywhere with that look and FWD to boot, it also reminds me of a white Camaro FWD concept I saw from a Car and Driver magazine spy photo from that same year.
Im thinking the same failure that the Ford Probe as a Mustang! This looks more like a Firebird concept than anything! Put on the Beretta chassis is just a Slam in the Face to the GTO Heritage! Thank You for this video!
Thanks for the educational video! Not aware of this car until now. I think they could've tried to sell this car to an audience that was tired of low horsepower cars/ This was about the time that higher performance Mustangs were becoming very popular, so there was a market. I do like the styling.
It would have been interesting to see if that very futuristic concept for the GTO would have caught on. It reminds me of a slightly more aggressive Ford Probe, which was intended to be the next generation Mustang until Ford got nervous about such a radical redesign of the Mustang.
I thought i had seen most GM concept cars from that era, but this one is new to me. It looks great. A mix of Dodge Stealth/Mitsu 3000 GT and 4th Gen Firebird and a little bit of 2nd gen Eagle Talon. The lack of retro styling is fine because at that time, i don't think people were looking for retro designs from the 60s. Ultimately this is just one of so many missed opportunities by GM to inject some fresh designs and new ideas into their lineup. I'm sure, as always, the bean-counters were at fault.
Thanks, Adam, for introducing us all to a GTO I for one at least had never heard of. Interesting that it probably could have made the show car circuit but Pontiac did not choose that for this design study. The "Talon" comment from Canadian Guy is certainly right and also a bit of the Saturn Coupe, but in general the upper very much reminds of the upcoming 4th-Gen F-bodies, specifically Camaro's all-tinted-appearing canopy, with a bit of the Firebird's non-Trans Am nose. Regarding the side-sculpturing, I've always thought that employing that lower-center coke-bottle-emphasizing sculpture on the production Firebird -- taken almost directly from the purple 1992 Corvette Stingray III concept, btw -- really added some surface excitement to that car, and I love looking at mine, even with the ten feet of front overhang that the Corvette concept avoids completely. Interesting that you can always tell a RWD car from FWD, even when the F-bodies design moved a bit cab-forward.
Yes ----- I am replying to my own comment but I cannot stop saying it! Stingray III, Stingray III, Stingray III: the concept that could have and should have guided BOTH the Corvette and Camaro design programs into gorgeous and affordable genuine sports/GT cars!
Adam another extremely interesting segment! I like the concept car, but, what about making it more of a mid-engine design and carry more of the sheet metal to create the rear window area shape? You remember the the exploding glass problem on the Camaros? This glass shape is an accident waiting to happen……
From an exterior design standpoint, this GTO concept looks awesome, and if they stayed reasonably close to this concept it would have been a tempting buy. The FWD platform is a bit disappointing, but throw a supercharged Buick 3800 V6 under the hood and that pretty much cures any disappointment
Video request please. I would like to know what your most favorite GM production automobile ever is and also the one GM production automobile that you have no love for whatsoever. Honestly I'd like if you did it for cars, trucks, and vans separately, but I dont want to ask too much of anyone.
No. It was when there was rhe n body grand am coupe and w body grand prix coupe. The L body was a N body sold as a chevy so its basically a grand am coupe? Then you still have the firebird....It woulda just confused customers.
Adam - I tend to agree with you that this likely would have bombed in the sales department....what's interesting to my eye is this 1988 concept gives the feel of what became the 1993 F-Body cars, the angular openings in the front, corner wrap around taillights, outside rear view mirror cut....also the 1999 concept, which I do remember seeing, sems to push some of the the most recent Camaro re-introduction what about a dozen years ago, especially in that rear quarter panel and the angular appearance on the front of the car.
Though Pontiac did indeed 'wedge' a 389 cu in V8 in its Tempest, it should be noted that the 326, 389, 421 and 455 cu in V8s all shared the exact same engine block.
You can't change the past but imagine if modern day Buick and Cadillac started making their own versions of the Corvette and Camaro. This would be cool, and it would give luxury car brands a run for their money. This would also put a spin on the new mid-engine Corvette and possibly turn potential Ferrari and Lambo buyers.
Can you imagine that GTO concept car (4:04) into a parking space and smashing the front on a four-inch tall parking block? Or even just trying to go over a speed bump? These designers obviously don't care if the driver rips the front of his/her car off.
5:15 Interesting that the 1988 GTO prototype was left-hand drive but the wiper setup was for a right-hand drive vehicle (at least as far as conventional wiper designs go - sweeping towards the driver).
I loved Pontiac as a kid and well into my teens. But I don't lament the discontinuation of the brand. Too much damage was done in the last 2 decades of Pontiac's existence. Let's remember and celebrate the good times. That GTO proposal was handsome but would have been too close to the Firebird in theme.
That's what I'm saying. There are other concepts that Pontiac put out in the past but always end up on the Chevrolet cars. ( Corvette and Camaro ) Why can't Chevrolet bring up their own concept than stealing Pontiac's? Remember their logo ' Pontiac: We bring excitement.' Chevy is just jealous. 😂
That was one 1988 GTO concept but there was another one. I want to say it was in an issue of Road & Track in either the spring or summer of 1985. Basically it was a Grand Am with a body kit to make it look more aggressive and a turbocharged/intercooled version of the upcoming Quad 4 that was expected to put out about 250 bhp. I know I can't be the only one who saw this concept.
If the GTO was a package for the Tempest, why not a package for the Firebird? I know, I know , it wouldn’t be the same, but that car was the last rear wheel drive platform, so repackaging it wouldn’t be a problem…. The only other car that could get a GTO package would be the Grand Prix, and maybe with some tweaking it might worked….. But it’s too late since Pontiac is no more.
It should have been a package for the Grand Prix, in my opinion. Why make yet another option for the Firebird when you have the base, Formula and Trans-Am? Another option would have been to make it a package for the G6 coupe and convertible, which are both nice looking cars in my opinion. (The sedan not so much.) It's sad the G6 coupe was downgraded so much from its initial concept that had a supercharged 3.5 V6 pushing 285 hp and 272 ft lb torque.
I think if that concept GTO was produced - and GM committed to it - Pontiac would’ve alienated classic GTO fans but they could’ve possibly brought new people to the brand. It’s definitely a risk that I understand why it wasn’t taken. On another note, the 2004 GTO looks like a watered-down evolution of this concept. I’m imagining an alternative reality where we had curvaceous GTOs from the late ‘80s until the mid 2000s; then a total redesign to fall in line with the retro-craze that was underway at the time. 😌
I like the orange concept, but I'm on record as liking my 2005 Dodge Dakota that also had some boogie to it. I agree with everyone getting Stealth/3000, Eclipse/Talon and 4th-gen F-body vibes from the yellow concept. If they'd produced the yellow car it'd probably have been on my list of possibilities for my first new-ish and not-a-hand-me-down car in ~1998.
@9:20 The wheels weren't used on another Pontiac; the design was used (with some modification) on the 94-96 Chevy Beretta Z26. I guess the Beretta Z26 designers like the look of this concept and since this didn't go into production felt free to use it on the Beretta itself. As you said, the concept is based on the Beretta.
I am pretty sure that those Wheels were used in the Chevy Beretta and even the Lumina APV but they appear to be huge on this concept as if they're 18 or 20
Around this time is when the FWD Firebird/Camaro (GM80) project was nearing it's development peak (before being cancelled late in the year). I wonder is this was a internal proposal to carry on RWD performance at Pontiac.
I reckon this could/should've been called something else, like the Sunfire (of which Pontiac produced), or even Sunblaze, instead of the GTO. I really dig smooth designs like this, due to the way they look like bullets somewhat, and Pontiac's rear heckblendes are one of my favourite features of the modern-era GTOs of the time. This one is no exception. The front definitely would've needed more features though, to really make it stand out. Probably some nice creasing lines from the grille to front fender, or even from grille to windscreen, but really subtle, so as to not butcher the design. The headlights are a tad small as well, so a little bit of upsizing and non-concealed headlights might've done a fair bit, but it would've still been interesting with concealed headlights regardless!
Interesting video, thank you! A few corrections though. The red 64 at the beginning isn’t a GTO, it’s a LeMans. Also DeLorean was chief engineer when the GTO launched. It was later that he became general manager.
Despite the Beretta platform, that looks like it could have been part of the GM80 program, the front-drive cars that were supposed to replace Camaro/Firebird. That program was cancelled, but I always thought GM would have had good-selling cars if they simply brought them to market and called them something else, a la Ford Probe/Mustang. Apparently they were too heavy and expensive, though. I'm glad this didn't make production as a GTO.
I commented something similar. To me, it looks like a cross between a Saturn SC coupe, catfish Camaro, Sunfire (in the rear with the same spoiler design) and a bit of Subaru SVX (the window design, that is).
Adam, I often play and can be silly in your comment section, but I want you to know how grateful I am for you, your channel, and all the things you are documenting that have been largely ignored for decades. Thank you.
Thx!
Waitin on tha pizzle, tha dizzle, and tha SHIZZLE!
G’s to the BIZZACK, now ladies here we GIZZO!!!
Wholesome and sweet.
I’m also the same I only just realized this account wasn’t subscribed also!!
@@RareClassicCars “Carpenter” here.. I’ll second this. There’s sooooo much car content out in TH-cam world. Most of it makes me cringe at how long it takes to hammer a car back to life during a “barn find”. An hour and a half? Test light on the points, file if necessary or replace.. fill the floats from a squirt bottle with a healthy shot down the throat, and send it. I digress. Nobody else is getting into this nuance, on cars that were once everyday, but are now largely forgotten. So, Adam thanks for bringing us strange, unique, and even quirky knowledge that nobody else does.
That show car looks like a Pontiac version of the current Camaro.
I think it looks like a snow plow.
10/4
Correct...these days is an era of mediocrity
To me it looks like a front wheel drive Firebird.
Trans Am World will convert a Camaro into a GTO for you.
It became the Sunfire GT , the wheel design was used on the Chev Beretta Z26
I had a 2005 GTO w/a 6 speed manual. It was a lot of fun, relatively cheap and had a more smooth, organic look than other Pontiacs from that era. There were several in my area, all different colors.
I can imagine Bob Lutz speaking your comments about cheap and organic looks.
That GTO wasn’t a Pontiac at all actually. It was a rebadged Holden Monaro
It's a rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia 🇦🇺 (which there for not a real Pontiac like the originals).
I think it was a good idea, but it already looked 10yrs. old when released. Bland and Sunfire looking. But then again, Pontiac and GM was trying to stay afloat by then.
@@CJColvin You could say the same thing about the Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am after 1981.
They did in '93, they just called it a F-Body Trans Am
not
I see the similarities.
That’s what’s known as a Trans Am and not a GTO
You are blind and ignorant
The front fascia looks like a 1993 Firebird Formula.
That yellow GTO with the Beretta GTZ wheels on it looks like an Eagle Talon. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
I also see a Dodge Intrepid in this. Then looking at the front of it, I would have to say it is also Front-WRONG-Wheel-Drive. WHich should never carry the name of a Muscle car. Signed-Richard.
Looks like a 1993 Pontiac Firebird.
Those are Z26 and Lumina APV wheels
@@daveh2612 Nice catch. These at least looked good on something even if the car does need improvement like this one. It isn't completely ugly, but it still needs some help.
Looks more like a dodge stratus
Perhaps because I'm a 80's kid, still think these fluid shapes + full glass canopy designs are the most futuristic shit ever. Love them!
I grew up coveting 4th gen F-bodies. I miss when sports cars were sleek/contemporary not just retro boomer nostalgia. Now because the Camaro goes on "hiatus" every decade it has to "look like a Camaro" when it comes back again. 🤦♂
@@iluvcamaros1912gM designers have no talent or imagination they are copy cat professionals,the drugs don’t help them either
The 99 is the newest(ugliest) generation of Camaros...! The 88 looks like a fourth generation F-body except for the greenhouse... It looks like an Eagle Talon/Eclipse/ Plymouth...! Anyone remember the Plymouth version of the first Eclipse...? What was its name...?!
"Maybe too much boogie". Classic Adam understatement. Love it.
I see alot of fifth Gen Camaro in that 99 concept. Crazy to think that was over 10 years before the actual 2010 Camaro came out again!
First thing I saw in it too.
88’ GTO Looks like a Pontiac version of the GM-80 front wheel drive platform
I miss Jim Wangers and his toupee. Always enjoyed his discussions on old 90s tv car shows.
Yeah, like tnn, speed, or spike tv …
@@strippingears9052 yes sir.
That was good TV back then. Now I’m going to look for those old episodes on TH-cam.
Another informative video…thanks Adam. The Yellow concept GTO looks a lot like the Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon. A lot of the design cues are similar to the F bodies that were produced.
First thing that popped in my mind was Eagle Talon.
@@SlwRpr same here
Wow, I don't recall ever seeing this show car. A pretty good design for the day, in my opinion.
The problem with this GTO concept car is the fact that it is based on the front wheel drive chevy berreta L body platform as You point out in Your video! Great information and great video!
Those 88 concept wheel look like Beretta Z26 wheels
I really like the beretta, havent seen one in like 15 years tho
@@User-1683x2 I had a 92 with the 3.1L and a 5 speed manual. Surprisingly quick.
They are very similar to the Z26 wheels from 94-96 (also the Lumina Van had 15 inchers)
I was going to say this. I think they’re the same wheels, only with a Pontiac center hub vs the bowtie.
Inspired The 1996 Rivera front end.
There was a GTO concept before this based on a Quad4 Grand Am, I remember seeing photos of them, and a few articles.
Yep it was based on the 86 Grand Am
Have pix of a '92 era GTO based on the Grand Am. A non starter.
Ugh -- maybe you shouldn't have reminded us.
If GM made a sedan out of this, it would fit in perfectly with the Ford Taurus/Sable and the 1st gen Chrysler LH cars. Very similar design themes.
Yes! That similarity with the abominations of soapboxes being LH!
Brrrrrrrr... The ugly car craze was on it's all time highest.
Aztek and Renault Logan look funny and interesting beside them...
@@harlequintheserpent7016 Still think the LH cars and other "soapbox" cars of the 90s were a huge improvements over the dull, slab sided bricks that we had been getting for the past 15 years out of Detroit.
@@melvinharris7859 Sure bricks were boring as heck and as anemic as asphyxiated snakes, but, at least, you could fit in them right being over 5' tall and they had some actual suspension travel and ground clearance so that your ride wasn't constantly followed with those belly rubs and bumpstop slams.
Also, putting the steering rack on a shelf below the windshield was just a brilliant idea, serviceability... is none.
And Toyota amongst the others had come up with a similar design... Brilliant, let's just copy each other's engineering blunders untill all the cars end up...
Wait, we're already there.
@@harlequintheserpent7016 None of the stuff you brought up is exclusive to or started with round cars. The majority of the vehicles produced during the 1980s fit all of those descriptors. Take the General Motors X, A, J, and C-Body cars of the 1980s. Or take your pick from any Asian import of the time. Or the extremely successful and mass produced Chrysler K-Cars. All square designs. All with steering racks mounted behind the motor, low ground clearance, and limited suspension travel. Auto makers sold millions of these cars. Additionally, cars didn't get any more cramped inside when the round era of design came around, if anything it was the opposite, if you actually took the time to look at some interior measurement figures for various cars of the two eras. Take for example, a 1985 Chevrolet Cavalier, and a 1995 Chevrolet Cavalier. Two common mass produced GM vehicles of the eras. Both on the J-Body platform. One with square styling and one with rounded, aerodynamic styling. For the '95, we have 39" of front headroom, and 42.3" of front legroom. As well as 54.9" of front shoulder room. For the '85, we have 38.6" of front headroom, 42.2" of front legroom, and 53.7" of front shoulder room. The '95 is larger inside in every dimension. You'll find the more cars you look at, that this holds true for the vast majority of vehicles produced.
It sounds to me like your issue is less so with round cars, and moreso with FWD cars, since all the stuff you listed is just stuff that most FWD cars suffer from, regardless of when they were made or what the exterior styling looks like. Both the two major RWD old-school cars of the square-car era continued to be produced into the 1990s with updated aerodynamic bodywork, all while gaining increased interior space and retaining the same long-travel suspension and the same ground clearance as older models. And a front-steer design. But I suppose I wasn't expecting much from the guy who is arguing in favor of square malaise era cars.
@@melvinharris7859 Sure as heck, that has more to do with the FWD layout than with the outer shell design.
My bad for not putting the point, that malaise era boxes I was comparing LHs with were all RWD.
Especially my favourites - the Panther platform, which, being born in malaise era, happily lived out of it to become a bit less anemic and be the last classic body-on-frame sedans in existence.
Exception from the FWD rule I've encountered were the Toronados and the Rivieras, in them you seem to have all the space you want - and some extra. Gutless, characterless due to FWD, but, at least, your eyes didn't reside right in front of the windshield frame and the visor, like in Corvettes and T-birds.
it inspires the nextgen sunfire styling, as well as the next firebird/transam. I'd say they got good mileage out of this concept.
That’s definitely a 90’s-00’s firebird
Bingo
Thank you for another interesting, well-presented video.
In the late 1980s I worked for a promotion company that did on-site displays for various GM makes. One day in the warehouse I spotted a Grand Am coupe that had been modified with a deep dual grille front end and the letters GTO in one of the openings. It had the twin-cam four-cylinder and a 5-speed and was fully operational (it could be driven from the trailer to the display setup.) I was told that it had been a prototype but was now likely headed to the crusher. This was before cellphone cameras so all I have is the memory of spotting that unknown GTO / Grand Am.
I remember seeing that in a Motor Trend issue, I think. The headline was "The GTO is back!"
Looks a lot like the Dodge Stealth as well
Which was made by Mitsubishi (3000GT) and actually called the GTO in Japan.
I think that yellow GTO concept looks excellent: It's graceful, being without the misproportioned high trunk that so many other cars use to be aerodynamic. And the yellow with black are refreshingly different. The front 3/4 view reminds me a bit of the 1995-99 Riviera.
Absolutely, it looks a lot like a Riviera for sure. Even the trim on the rear bumper is near identical. I wonder if they were planning on using the same chassis, since they were already using it on the Oldsmobile Aurora as well.
As a guy who had a couple Pontiacs and has followed the brand history forever, plenty new here to me, fantastic
I think it’s a great looking car for that time, but I think that traditionalists would have fell over and got up screaming “what a disgrace” and knowing GM of the time, top engine probably would have been a 2.8. It’s probably best that they had not produced this car and called it a GTO. They could have produced it and called it something else I’m sure it would have done extremely well.
My 2001 Sunfire coup had 2 bulbs in the rear PONTIAC letters. Looked great
A nice looking concept, but I doubt there was (or ever will be) a market hungry for a front wheel drive GTO. The '99 GTO concept looks like it morphed into the production '07 Camaro. Thanks Adam, great content as always!😁
this concept has a dodge stealth look to it that's what jumped out at me about it. The radius in the upper door is very distinctive like you pointed out, once people found out the 2004 GTO was a imported Australian design with Pontiac cosmetics it lost it's credibility with purists who had the money to afford it I would think. I remember in 1980's Pontiac did a SD4 powered Grand Am engineering exercise thought to possibly be the 1987 GTO. obviously it didn't come to fruition certainly because of the front wheel drive aspect it also being a 4 cyl. didn't help either. It made 300hp If I remember correctly.
I never understood the “loss of credibility” because it was a rebadged Monaro. So what? GM actually sold the Monaro under the Chevrolet badge in the Middle East for awhile. It’s a rear drive LS-powered coupe. Does it really matter that it was an Aussie design?
@@zlinedavidexactly, if it's dope sell it.
You said that the 74 was just a gussied up Ventura, remember that the earlier Goats were just gussied up Lemans. I liked the 74s, but then I am of the age that I remember when they were new.
Sadly, the Ventura was just a gussied up Chevy Nova with the front and rear changed to Pontiac themes. Pretty much the rest of the car was Nova, excepting the drivetrain. At least they still used Pontiac engines back then. 1973 and before were on the Lemans, which looked significantly different from the Malibu.
Left out a step. The Lemans was a gussied up Tempest, then the GTO was a gussied up Lemans. 🙂
@@michaeloliver2337 As cool as Camaros and Firebirds were, there wasn’t a whole lot of difference between them. Especially after 1981. After which they went all Chevy powered. Yuck.
The first GTO concept look more muscular and aggressive. The second one look a bit too sleek and low slung so they probably use that design on the latest Firebird or Trans Am. The first one possibly used that on the latest Camaro.
Adam - suggestion for a video: the creation of the Grand Ville. I read somewhere that it was an interesting amalgam of parts from both B and C bodies. Great result, and I'd love to know more about how they created this big handsome beast that still managed to look downright sporty next to the other big C bodies of its day. Keep up the good work!
Kinda like a Dodge Stealth
Thank you Adam. This video was quite interesting. I do not recall this concept or design proposal. I liked the information. I thank you for sharing the early 1970's GTO that failed. I liked that you mentioned the Holden based GTO and mentioning how it came from Holden and how it was introduced. The enthusiasts like the 2004-2006 GTO now. There are a bunch of You Tube videos for that car. This video was quite good.
Reminds me of the goofy Subaru SVX sports car with the stumpy windows.
I had an '05 GTO, and that car was fun as hell! Total sleeper. Most folks thought it was a GrandAm, and didn't attract a lot of attention from the police. Wish I woulda kept it...
Adam, to let you know just how spoiled you’ve made me with these quality productions, I find myself hugely disappointed if I find you haven’t uploaded a new one…EVERY day! Thanks for that…I guess!😜
Thanks, Adam! Never had heard or seen this GTO study before - fascinating how Pontiac still had enthusiasts ( at least at GM Design Staff ) trying to bring back their performance chops. Your site is the ONLY place we can get this kind of info. Don't mean to pick nits - but just for the accurate historical record, John DeLorean was not Pontiac General Manager, but was Chief Engineer at Pontiac when he and his assistant, Bill Collins developed the GTO. Bunkie Knudsen was Pontiac GM. A bit later, Bunkie was "kicked upstairs" to run Chevrolet after having resurrected Pontiac sales and DeLorean was promoted to Pontiac GM. Jim Wangers worked at McManus, John & Adam - Pontiac's advertising agency and became the GTO's promotional godfather and was behind creating the car's larger-than-life mythos that we all know today.
Great photo of your Pontiac at the GM Technical Centre. I have been lucky enough to visit there twice. Once to film Harley Earl’s office with Mike Simcoe and last year to film and ride in the LeSabre. My favourite all time dream car. 👍That later GTO concept looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse.
When I worked at the Pontiac/olds/Cadillac dealer in 99-01, we had a customer who rebadged a supercharged 3800 powered Grand Prix as a gto. Those were in my opinion one of tge best looking, driving and handling cars that gm has made since the muscle car era
As someone who was a subscriber to Motor Trend back then,(and Detroit Auto Show enthusiast) I have to say this is the one concept car that I have no memory of. And GM stuff was always in your face.
Important to note that in the 60’s GM had a rule about what engine displacement sizes could be in what cars (something along those lines). Meaning small and mid sized cars, like the LeMans, the Ventura, Chevrolet’s Chevelle and even Corvette (mostly), couldn’t have a bigger and more powerful engines. However, Delorean found a loophole in GMs rules that allowed cars with option packages to have upgraded, larger engines. So the GTO was that option package, but after the first two years of it being so successful, GM slacked on the rules a bit to allow the GTO to become its own car, and allowed other cars like the Chevelle to have larger engines (still limited to a degree until 1970).
I love this GTO from the 80s. I think they should've put it out because people would've really liked it at that time. It is a beautiful car. I'd drive that now
I don't mind the event Pontiac Ventura based GTO
I agree. Imagine if they would’ve put a 455 in it. I used to know a guy who put a 455 in a Ventura. It was wicked fast.
Ahoy Adam!
I've never seen this concept!
I really enjoy the "optimistic future" designs of the 80s, and the first car this one reminded me of was the super sleek, Saturn SC1 coupe.
Always thought they were cool, kinda small, but offered great looks of a Firebird-type car for guys with a tight budget on a 7/8ths scale.
Never was able to own one, but admired them, and their later innovative 3rd "half door" to make access to the rear easier.
Saturn deserves a series I think, made some real innovations when GM could still afford to experiment, and I was sad to seem them go away before I was able to join the "cult" of Saturn that Gm created, with its annual customer picnics, unique dealership structure, etc.
I really thought GM was reinventing both the car and sales experience, and I think, it was in fact better!
If Saturn had been allowed to grow and mature like Kia, Hyundai have, imagine what great cars they would be building today.
Thanks again for your rare photos and info and thoughtful insights!
I remember that 1999 GTO concept, which was really well received. Of course it was over the top, but onced toned down for production and a powerful V8 it would have sold well. The 1988 concept GTO wouldnt have gone anywhere with that look and FWD to boot, it also reminds me of a white Camaro FWD concept I saw from a Car and Driver magazine spy photo from that same year.
The '99 looks like when they brought the Camaro back for a 5th gen. Very cool. Thank you!
Im thinking the same failure that the Ford Probe as a Mustang! This looks more like a Firebird concept than anything! Put on the Beretta chassis is just a Slam in the Face to the GTO Heritage!
Thank You for this video!
the Camaro/Firebird from the 1990's sure took a lot of inspiration from this.
Thanks for the educational video! Not aware of this car until now. I think they could've tried to sell this car to an audience that was tired of low horsepower cars/ This was about the time that higher performance Mustangs were becoming very popular, so there was a market. I do like the styling.
Looks like a Dodge Intrepid...
It would have been interesting to see if that very futuristic concept for the GTO would have caught on. It reminds me of a slightly more aggressive Ford Probe, which was intended to be the next generation Mustang until Ford got nervous about such a radical redesign of the Mustang.
I think a parallel to this at Ford could be the Probe GT.
The Probe looked a lot better-definitely a better car
I thought i had seen most GM concept cars from that era, but this one is new to me. It looks great. A mix of Dodge Stealth/Mitsu 3000 GT and 4th Gen Firebird and a little bit of 2nd gen Eagle Talon. The lack of retro styling is fine because at that time, i don't think people were looking for retro designs from the 60s. Ultimately this is just one of so many missed opportunities by GM to inject some fresh designs and new ideas into their lineup. I'm sure, as always, the bean-counters were at fault.
Thanks, Adam, for introducing us all to a GTO I for one at least had never heard of. Interesting that it probably could have made the show car circuit but Pontiac did not choose that for this design study. The "Talon" comment from Canadian Guy is certainly right and also a bit of the Saturn Coupe, but in general the upper very much reminds of the upcoming 4th-Gen F-bodies, specifically Camaro's all-tinted-appearing canopy, with a bit of the Firebird's non-Trans Am nose. Regarding the side-sculpturing, I've always thought that employing that lower-center coke-bottle-emphasizing sculpture on the production Firebird -- taken almost directly from the purple 1992 Corvette Stingray III concept, btw -- really added some surface excitement to that car, and I love looking at mine, even with the ten feet of front overhang that the Corvette concept avoids completely. Interesting that you can always tell a RWD car from FWD, even when the F-bodies design moved a bit cab-forward.
Yes ----- I am replying to my own comment but I cannot stop saying it! Stingray III, Stingray III, Stingray III: the concept that could have and should have guided BOTH the Corvette and Camaro design programs into gorgeous and affordable genuine sports/GT cars!
Adam another extremely interesting segment!
I like the concept car, but, what about making it more of a mid-engine design and carry more of the sheet metal to create the rear window area shape? You remember the the exploding glass problem on the Camaros?
This glass shape is an accident waiting to happen……
From an exterior design standpoint, this GTO concept looks awesome, and if they stayed reasonably close to this concept it would have been a tempting buy. The FWD platform is a bit disappointing, but throw a supercharged Buick 3800 V6 under the hood and that pretty much cures any disappointment
I love the aesthetic of 90's GM designs (as a result of their 80's concepts)
Video request please. I would like to know what your most favorite GM production automobile ever is and also the one GM production automobile that you have no love for whatsoever. Honestly I'd like if you did it for cars, trucks, and vans separately, but I dont want to ask too much of anyone.
Or maybe just do cars, but one loved and hated from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
Front lights remind me of an early Saturn coupe and bonus points for the Chevy APV wheels shared later with Beretta.
Good eye but they stole body from mitsubishi.
Looks like an overinflated Sunfire coupe to me. A GTO needs retro styling and RWD!!
No. It was when there was rhe n body grand am coupe and w body grand prix coupe. The L body was a N body sold as a chevy so its basically a grand am coupe? Then you still have the firebird....It woulda just confused customers.
The 66-67 GTOs will always be my favorite
I wouldn't like it as a GTO. But it looks like it would've been a pretty fun car
I've never seen that one before, would've made a nice second gen Fiero
Adam - I tend to agree with you that this likely would have bombed in the sales department....what's interesting to my eye is this 1988 concept gives the feel of what became the 1993 F-Body cars, the angular openings in the front, corner wrap around taillights, outside rear view mirror cut....also the 1999 concept, which I do remember seeing, sems to push some of the the most recent Camaro re-introduction what about a dozen years ago, especially in that rear quarter panel and the angular appearance on the front of the car.
Though Pontiac did indeed 'wedge' a 389 cu in V8 in its Tempest, it should be noted that the 326, 389, 421 and 455 cu in V8s all shared the exact same engine block.
You can't change the past but imagine if modern day Buick and Cadillac started making their own versions of the Corvette and Camaro. This would be cool, and it would give luxury car brands a run for their money. This would also put a spin on the new mid-engine Corvette and possibly turn potential Ferrari and Lambo buyers.
Can you imagine that GTO concept car (4:04) into a parking space and smashing the front on a four-inch tall parking block? Or even just trying to go over a speed bump? These designers obviously don't care if the driver rips the front of his/her car off.
Can you plz make a video on how cars are engineered
Those wheels were used by Chevy on the Beretta Z26 in 16 inch and Lumina Minivan in 15 inch.
5:15 Interesting that the 1988 GTO prototype was left-hand drive but the wiper setup was for a right-hand drive vehicle (at least as far as conventional wiper designs go - sweeping towards the driver).
This design looks like a second gen Eagle Talon mated with a Firebird. The greenhouse reminds me of the Sunfire concept they did a few years later.
I loved Pontiac as a kid and well into my teens. But I don't lament the discontinuation of the brand. Too much damage was done in the last 2 decades of Pontiac's existence. Let's remember and celebrate the good times. That GTO proposal was handsome but would have been too close to the Firebird in theme.
I wish the Firebird and Camaro stayed sleek sports cars and the GTO could have been the muscle car.
I see a lot of the Saturn Coupe in the front, the Sunfire coupe in the back, and the 1995 to 1999 Monte Carlo.
That 1999 concept shown at 4:20 sure looks a lot like the late model Camaro!!! (Or Firebird...)
That's what I'm saying. There are other concepts that Pontiac put out in the past but always end up on the Chevrolet cars. ( Corvette and Camaro ) Why can't Chevrolet bring up their own concept than stealing Pontiac's? Remember their logo ' Pontiac: We bring excitement.' Chevy is just jealous. 😂
That was one 1988 GTO concept but there was another one. I want to say it was in an issue of Road & Track in either the spring or summer of 1985. Basically it was a Grand Am with a body kit to make it look more aggressive and a turbocharged/intercooled version of the upcoming Quad 4 that was expected to put out about 250 bhp. I know I can't be the only one who saw this concept.
I remember that, too.
The tan Granville in your video is nice.
If the GTO was a package for the Tempest, why not a package for the Firebird?
I know, I know , it wouldn’t be the same, but that car was the last rear wheel drive platform, so repackaging it wouldn’t be a problem….
The only other car that could get a GTO package would be the Grand Prix, and maybe with some tweaking it might worked…..
But it’s too late since Pontiac is no more.
It should have been a package for the Grand Prix, in my opinion.
Why make yet another option for the Firebird when you have the base, Formula and Trans-Am?
Another option would have been to make it a package for the G6 coupe and convertible, which are both nice looking cars in my opinion. (The sedan not so much.)
It's sad the G6 coupe was downgraded so much from its initial concept that had a supercharged 3.5 V6 pushing 285 hp and 272 ft lb torque.
The wheels from the last concept were realized on the Beretta Z26.
I think if that concept GTO was produced - and GM committed to it - Pontiac would’ve alienated classic GTO fans but they could’ve possibly brought new people to the brand.
It’s definitely a risk that I understand why it wasn’t taken.
On another note, the 2004 GTO looks like a watered-down evolution of this concept. I’m imagining an alternative reality where we had curvaceous GTOs from the late ‘80s until the mid 2000s; then a total redesign to fall in line with the retro-craze that was underway at the time. 😌
Would've been nice to see the interior of this vehicle but an interesting video nonetheless as most of yours are
I actually like it, still has some of that firebird flair but looks more modern. Wish they could have kept the wing/tail flair though.
This concept car was very much of its time.The wheels look like a much more outlandish version or the wheels used on the Beretta Z26.
I like the orange concept, but I'm on record as liking my 2005 Dodge Dakota that also had some boogie to it. I agree with everyone getting Stealth/3000, Eclipse/Talon and 4th-gen F-body vibes from the yellow concept. If they'd produced the yellow car it'd probably have been on my list of possibilities for my first new-ish and not-a-hand-me-down car in ~1998.
@9:20 The wheels weren't used on another Pontiac; the design was used (with some modification) on the 94-96 Chevy Beretta Z26. I guess the Beretta Z26 designers like the look of this concept and since this didn't go into production felt free to use it on the Beretta itself. As you said, the concept is based on the Beretta.
It looks best from behind, like some of us. I’m loving the faux graffiti on that wall shot… the GTO is so *street*. Go ONTIA!
A GTO based on the Beretta?? Nope. That was the ultimate rental car. It drove like....disappointment.
I am pretty sure that those Wheels were used in the Chevy Beretta and even the Lumina APV but they appear to be huge on this concept as if they're 18 or 20
I remember reading about this car back in 1988. I think it was supposed to be powered by a quad 4
Around this time is when the FWD Firebird/Camaro (GM80) project was nearing it's development peak (before being cancelled late in the year). I wonder is this was a internal proposal to carry on RWD performance at Pontiac.
I reckon this could/should've been called something else, like the Sunfire (of which Pontiac produced), or even Sunblaze, instead of the GTO.
I really dig smooth designs like this, due to the way they look like bullets somewhat, and Pontiac's rear heckblendes are one of my favourite features of the modern-era GTOs of the time. This one is no exception.
The front definitely would've needed more features though, to really make it stand out. Probably some nice creasing lines from the grille to front fender, or even from grille to windscreen, but really subtle, so as to not butcher the design. The headlights are a tad small as well, so a little bit of upsizing and non-concealed headlights might've done a fair bit, but it would've still been interesting with concealed headlights regardless!
Reminds me a lot of the 2nd gen eagle talon, especially the sail panels and backlight.
The yellow Pontiac GTO study borrowed some styling cues from the Camaro/Firebird.
I had a 1964 Pontiac Lemans and a 1967 GTO plus a 1973 Grand AM 455 ( Euro GTO )
Interesting video, thank you! A few corrections though. The red 64 at the beginning isn’t a GTO, it’s a LeMans. Also DeLorean was chief engineer when the GTO launched. It was later that he became general manager.
From Europe, I think this is a beautiful car.
I would love a 1974 G.T.O I always like that body style.
A lot of that '88 GTO concept went into the 1995 -1999 Buick Riviera. The greenhouse, tail lights and hood/front end shape especially.
some of those concepts look like they spilled over into the 2010 Camaro, and 91 (new front styled) TA and GTA
Despite the Beretta platform, that looks like it could have been part of the GM80 program, the front-drive cars that were supposed to replace Camaro/Firebird. That program was cancelled, but I always thought GM would have had good-selling cars if they simply brought them to market and called them something else, a la Ford Probe/Mustang. Apparently they were too heavy and expensive, though.
I'm glad this didn't make production as a GTO.
1988 concept was a straight up Saturn!!
I don't see Saturn use that. Saturn are known to look boxy.
I see it. I commented that the thumbnail looks like a Saturn.
I commented something similar. To me, it looks like a cross between a Saturn SC coupe, catfish Camaro, Sunfire (in the rear with the same spoiler design) and a bit of Subaru SVX (the window design, that is).