Hey, Nonat. Loremaster Lore can only be used to recall knowledge. Getting on an airship and the next morning you decide to quick study Piloting Lore, now you can drive the airship.
It's still fairly underwhelming, since a level 1 elf ancestry feat, can get you that benefit with any skill, including but not just limited to a Lore skill, or alternatively with the investigator archetype, with a level 4 feat, you can take Flexible Studies, which gives you that benefit, again, with any skill, and you don't need to have observed it the previous day. The main thing I'd say you lose out with Loremaster, compared to the Investigator Archetype is universal Decypher writing, since you can pick up Keen Recollections as another feat, which is almost as good as a Universal Lore skill (or honestly just take Untrained Improvisation as a general feat) but in exchange you get the benefits of investigator feats and some features. I feel like it should have been a skill feat. Maybe it'd be a bit more powerful than an ordinary skill feat, though even then, I'm not sure, but it's already locked behind an archetype, so I don't see much of an issue.
@@GroundThing fair enough. I feel like a lot of the archetypes are ment to be applied more to npcs than players. Especially since one of the Linguist feats forces a check on someone.
@@TheUnluckyEverydude npcs are generally built using the monster rules in the gmg. They are much for flexible then the pc rules.ofncourse you.can build an NPC with the pc rules but it's very time consuming and much easier to bang out npcs with the pc rules. I would love to see Nonat do more gm focused content, would love to see some NPC and monster builds as well as more gm advice.
Ohh man, as an ESL teacher myself, the Linguist made me smile. As for the Phonetic Training. Picture your character listening to a conversation in a languages never heard before and being able to perfectly mimic that in order to seek a translation. Or maybe hearing someone shout orders in an unknown language and while disguised under an illusion spell being able to repeat the orders perfectly even though you have no idea what you've just said. It's a great feat in the hands of more roleplay-oriented players!
Yeah, it really seems written for the benefit of people who understand the real-world equivalent. There's probably a way to make it mechanically less dense in the wording, but I love that they went full Arrival and actually tried to explain some of what linguistics does.
So, Phonetic Training is basically learning the Golarion equivalent to the International Phonetic Alphabet, combined with the trained ability to hear and repeat sounds that don't appear in your language*. This feat is incredibly situational - you have to be playing a game where language is important for this feat to be useful, but then I would argue that that's pretty much the case for the entire Linguist archetype. It's the kind of thing you might want someone to have in a campaign about exploring the Mwangi Expanse, but it's not going to be too useful in Absolom. * Which is actually really difficult - the reason Japanese people typically have trouble telling the difference l and r is that neither sound from English is used in the Japanese alphabet; they have a sound that's roughly midway between the two (represented in the Latin alphabet with an r), so l and r sound almost identical to them. English speakers typically have the same problem learning to speak Korean due to the lack of difference between aspirated and unaspirated voiceless plosives in English (think t in top vs t in stop). Yes, I'm a language nerd, and this gives me an excuse to nerd about linguistics.
According to my old phonetics professor, that aspirated/unaspirated alveolar plosive distinction also exists in German, but only in the area around Kiel. It's really strange.
As I am rather late to watch the video, I tag along with my spare change of thoughts. 11:10 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet I have friends in Germany around Kiel, and when talking their dialect it is rather hard to understamd them and neigh impossible to replicate. Fama est it was one of the reasons why German naval communication via radio was so hard to decipher.
if you dig a bit deeper into the weeds of aspiration in English, for many speakers, word-onset voiced phonemes /b d g/ are pronounced as voiceless unaspirated [p t k], which turns the contrast in that position into one of aspiration not voicing. In other words, English speakers can more less distinguish actual aspirated vs the unaspirated voiceless stops, it's just that Korean's actual voiceless unaspirated stops are usually analyzed as "tense" (the pp tt kk consonants), and the other set is analyzed as "lax/unaspirated". The lax unaspirated stops are primarily articulated with a mid/low pitch, as compared to the tense and aspirated consonants which have high or high falling pitch contours. So the confusion is the aspirated stops and the lax/"unaspirated" stops, which is really distinguished more by pitch in modern Korean.
@@kori228 I wonder which dialects that happens in; it's not something I've ever encountered in northern England or Wales (or if I have, I didn't notice).
The Horizon Walker association with other planes stems form the 3e version of the prestige class, which, though having some abilities relating to "normal" terrain, was mostly taken for planar feature which enable among other things 3/d dimension door as a spell like ability, a great boon to a martial class.
The 4e version was like that too (I think it was an epic destiny). I remember they could out of the gate walk to anywhere in any plane within a day by just knowing where seams between the planes were.
The Horizon Walker feels like a NPC or GM PC class. If you need a guide that gets you across a mountain range or into an underwater dungeon then this guy is it.
31:49 - 33:13 & 38:26 - 39:20 Okay I agree that on there own Cadence Call/Tactical Cadence has a advantage of Allegro. However if we look at the bigger build picture we can see that each Ability is meant for a diffrent role. In the case of Allegro it is meanly meant to by synergies with other Focus Cantrip to improve both spell at range. A 14th level Maestro Bard (the bard that focuses on Focus Cantrip & Buffing) gains Lingering Composition at 1st level withs as a free action If your next action is to cast a cantrip composition and succeed a Performance check it turns a 1 round duration cantrip into a 3 round (or 4 round on a Critical Success) duration and in conjunction with Harmonize so you can have 2 Composition spells active on the same turn give you some nice synergies. And most of the composition spells have a 30 or 60 feet/foot single target or emanation range compared to the marshal's 10 to 20 foot emanation range. But why even compare why not have the best of both world with a marshal bard ;P. Still love the video as alway's.
RUFF RUFF "What is it Lassie?" RUFF RUFF "Jimmy and Billy went to the well?" RUFF RUFF "And Billy fell down the well and needs help?!" RUFF RUFF "Lead the way!"
the game of thrones show had a great example of read shibboleths when tywin knew that arya was not a commoner because of how she pronounced my lord instead of milord
Before the APG min-maxers would multi class into bard not for the cantrip or the spells, but just for bardic lore. Loremaster allows you to make a know it all character without the weird music theme, and the reason gossip lore doesn't fit this neich is one it take two feats to come on line and two it has a very different personality to it than loremaster does
Linguist seems neat in like a spy or intrigue based campaign. If your character is trying to be a spymaster, or an anti-spy in that sort of campaign, it seems super neat.
Personally, the way I treat Lore skills is that anything that relates closely to the Lore is 1-2 steps less "rare" for recall knowledge checks. But, utilizing the wide-branching Loremaster skill only ever makes it one step less "rare" to determine DC.
Spot translate would be so useful with an enchanter in the party, someone highly focused on charming and suggesting to others. Then. To take ridiculousness further. Sign Language Feat. Charm Person, Spot Translate, Sylvan Sign Language. Also that sneaky DK reference.
For Loremaster Lore vs Quick Study: Just like with locks that need a certain training level to even attempt to get a success, the same would be for information. I may be wrong, but Loremaster Lore would let you roll on information for any topic that didn't require training, but you'd get the trained bonus from rolling on it, whereas Quick Study would get you access to information only trained people would know - see the sample Recall Knowledge tasks. This is in addition to what others pointed out in the comments about doing other activities with the Lore skill than just Recall Knowledge.
Hell yeah. My group would joke that it was the best Striker in the game, his striker mechanic being the party. Through a Helm of Heroes on that guy so he can grant free standard actions a few times a day and you can do some crazy stuff. Had a group once where a fighter multi'd into it and I would grant him a standard and he'd use that to grant me a standard, and then I'd grant someone else a free attack. lol.
Basically binge watching this video series after picking up the advanced players guide in the current humble bundle. I don't understand much of the mechanics implications of any of these (haven't actually played PF2e yet) but I'm really enjoying your enthusiasm! =D
Crude Communication reminds me of a scene in Out of the Silent Planet by CS Lewis. The main character, Ransom, is kidnapped and taken to Mars where he escapes his captors and uses his skills as a linguist to start communicating with the native sapient species. Quite fitting since Ransom was based on JRR Tolkien as they were close friends and well Tolkien is pretty legendary as a linguist (and linguistic professor) and of course has had a massive impact on modern fantasy and RPGs in particular.
Thank you so Much for these Archetype videos. As I don't get to play as often as I'd like, I had to fins other ways to enjoy this game, and making character builds is one of the ways I have, These Archetype videos highlight options for those builds that I would otherwise overlooked. Examples of builds that these videos helped on are a build based loosely on Rainbow Dash (an Elf-Aasimar Monk with the Acrobat Archetype) and possibly the Martial archetype for my build for Jaune Arc from RWBY (who's likely to be a Human Champion).
The major benefit of quick study is very specific loreswich lower the DCby even more than most lores. Whereas dergedaemon lore would be better than daemon lor which is better than fiend lore.
I have a nomadic halfling rogue linguist. Nomadic halflings get 2 additional languages, plus 1 additional language for every multilingual feat taken.This means that you get 10+int languages, just based on ancestry and the linguist dedication. With rogues having so many skill feats, I was able to get a large portion of this archetype's feats without spending any class feats. With legendary society and a +4 to int, I had to write down "all common languages" in the language section on the character sheet, just to have enough room for the uncommon languages I knew. (this is a lvl 15 character fyi)
Great format, ket it moving. the archetypes in this video were very situationally brilliant, except the marshal which can almost be reflavored as a time mage.
The Marshal dedication is pure gold. We have a champion of Shelyn in the group I am playing in. And as you said in your class ranking video, some class feats for the champion especially at lower levels are rather unconvincing. She is planning to retrain into Marshal Dedication during our next downtime. Dismissing these feats for a champion dedication might lead to one of the strongest builds in PF2E. A defensive powerhouse, really hard to take down, with healing possibilities, Marshal stances plus good reactions and as a Shelyn Champion access to the protection domain, where the advanced domain spell is easily one of the best in the game imo.
Lore master would work great for rogue mastermind. You'd get the specific lore dc to identify. It'd free up a ton of their skill increases since they wouldnt need to up any of them. Well other than arcane so they can get unified theory.
@@Nonat1s also, I would like to specify that Lore applies to WAY more than just recalling knowledge and deciphering writing, not to mention the Loremaster Lore skill only covers already existing skills (e.g. arcana, occultism, etc.); in a port town, take Lore: Sailing; congratulations, you can now sail a boat, or prepare a ship for sailing; encounter a circus after sailing to a new land, take Lore: Circus, now you can run a game in the circus and gain some money. Lore skills cover so much and are so broad, and Loremaster Lore does not in any way cover all of them. Not saying it's great, but you vastly misunderstood how this ability works.
10:31 Phonetic Training is like the only actual Linguistics feat in the dedication lol Like I've studied Linguistics for 4 years and can actually do that, though it takes me a couple of listens usually. The "phonetic script" used in real-life Linguistics is called the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)
OH SNAP! Okay, you're 100% correct! Thank you! So I revoke my statement of "Duelist is Obsolete" lol. They're still not GREAT, but you could get some very solid damage consistency with Duelist + Dread Marshal. At level 7 with a striking weapon and Weapon Expertise, that's a guaranteed +6 damage to all attacks on top of normal damage die + modifier.
the Ranger marshal can be work even with mele allies, you can use a crossbow and clever position between lines and help the frontlines and be close of the backlines if they need you step in
Horizon Walker becomes really amazing if your GM allows you to retrain Favored Terrain when you move to a different area, otherwise it becomes completely neutered. Thematically this is nice though, i.e. the party spends two week preparing for the coming journey and on the last day the Horizon Walker just comes back from the wilds like "Hey guys I'm one with the desert now"
The party finds the entrance to a sacred groove of druids. The entrance is blocked by a stone door that will only open when the entry word is spoken in druidic (a la Mines of Moira in Lord of the Rings). Noone of the party members is a druid or can speak druidic, but the Linguist has previously heard some druids speak in their secret language and memorized/recorded a couple of words using his Phonetic Training. He starts saying random words that sound like druidic, in an attempt to guess the right word. Miracously, glyphs on the stone door start to shine and the door opens. He guessed the correct entry word, even though he has no idea of what that word means.
The Linguist's "Spot Translate" feat essentially makes you C-3PO in "Return of the Jedi," where he was translating Basic for his human allies to the Ewoks.
The marshal is for people who would rather play a massed battle game. It also really shines once you start giving it to NPCs, making kill squad for the players to fight especially if they forgot to bring their fireballs.
The difference between the Duelist's Challenge and the Dread Marshall's stance is that the Duelist's bonus happens automatically, while the Marshall requires a skill check, so it may not go off, and with a bad roll could prevent you from trying again for probably the rest of that encounter.
I feel like you underrated Loremaster a little bit, since it also gets access to a bunch of Bard feats that make you better at recalling knowledge too. Loremaster's Etude, for example, is a Composition spell, which means you get an extra focus point to buff recall knowledge when you need it and cast one of your other focus spells more often when you don't.
You know what I liked about Phonetic Training? It allows you to gather any information and pay for someone that knows a language you don't (or even ask one of your party members) to translate it. It's amazing on intrigue or more social focused campaigns.
The Marshal's Target of Opportunity could work well with a Throwing melee weapon (like a spear)- especially if you ended your turn without adjacent enemies (by downing the last one, for example). You can get a free strike as long as one party member uses ranged strikes, so I wouldn't call it niche even though it restricts the weapons you could use a little.
something tells me with how complicated the Linguist is, that the writer of this Archetype neglected to pick it up also, I feel like Tolkien would have this if he was a pathfinder pc
Hello there! Just wanted to point out for marshal that it specifies ranged or thrown weapon. If you happen to be playing a character with a melee weapon that has the thrown trait such as the trident or the club or the starknife ( I have a build for a paladin with ranged reprisal and a returning club with the divine weapon boost that makes the club better than the longsword) ranged opportunity can actually be very, very good! Also a shoutout to the dwarven thrower weapon as being awesome for a marshal level 14 dwarf character! Axe of the dwarven lords would also be amazeballs but... yaknow... what are the odds...
The additional feats for loremaster are better when you factor in both that you’ll actually get loremaster lore up to expert when you become legendary in another skill at level 15 and not just sit at trained, and that the DCs for lore tend to be lower. When you use any lore to recall knowledge, the DC starts at either easy or very easy, lowering the DC by either -2 or -5 respectively. When you get access to the assured knowledge feat at level 8, which essentially gives you assurance in loremaster lore, the DC to identify any level 9 creature is 26 and if you have a +4 INT mod and a proficiency bonus of +10 that would make your assurance “roll” a 24, which would be a success when you factor in at least the -2 for using lore. Being able to use loremaster lore to recall knowledge in anything with assurance is pretty powerful, especially for identifying creatures during combat since you not only recall what the creature is but learn information about it such as resistances and weaknesses. Even if the GM chooses to only lower every DC by 2, as long as you build your character optimally you can meet the DC of creatures one level higher than yours all the way up to when you reach level 20, and any creature above level 21 is probably gonna be hard for anyone to be able to recall knowledge on otherwise anyway. The rest of the archetype is admittedly pretty underwhelming, but if you want to make a character that can just identify anything you come across this is one of the best ways to do it.
I really wanted this to work because i thought that this was good enough to take the archetype; but the problem is that you can not add your INT modifier when using assurance, so really the assurance result in the example is 20; which is not enough even for the very easy DC. You cannot add any modifier, bonus or penalty to the result; it is a raw 10+proficiency.
Just wanna quickly weigh in on the coordinated charge: if you go first in battle and use this, it might depend on the situation if your allies can even use their reactions. "The GM determines whether you can use reactions before your first turn begins, depending on the situation in which the encounter happens."
@Nonat1s There is something that I wanted to point out you're skipping on most of these Archetypes. The majority of these archetypes have additional feats that they get enabling them to take feats you wouldn't normally be able to get otherwise unless you were a specific class that drastically improve how good they are. For example, the Horizon Walker can also pick up Blind-Fight, Terrain Master, and Warden's Step. Normally even a Multiclass Dedication into Ranger wouldn't let you pick up Terrain Master until 16 (you can get it at 10 with Horizon Walker) and you couldn't get Warden's Step at ALL where you can pick it up as a Horizon Walker at 12. Terrain Master lets you swap out your Favored Terrain to any other Terrain that you're in temporarily by just taking an hour to acclimate yourself to the new terrain. SUPER GOOD at making them flexible. Warden's Step straight up gives your allies the effect of Legendary Stealth in any of your favored terrains so long as you're avoiding notice through the terrain. If you pair this with Legendary Stealth then you and your group can ALWAYS be stealthed while exploring and doing something else. You should compare the additional feats they qualify for (Listed at the start of the archetype details) with what is possible through a Multiclass Dedication with that class and with the class itself just to paint a full picture of these archetypes. :)
Another example would be the Loremaster. It's a lukewarm archetype if you just go by the specific feats it gets, such as the Loremaster Lore being comparable to Gossip Lore. HOWEVER the Loremaster also gets the ability to pick up Assured Knowledge at 8 which is only 2 levels later than Bard, without needing any of the prerequisites. That lets you use assurance on ANY recall knowledge attempt. Enigma's Knowledge at level 14 which is only 2 levels later than Bard that lets you gain the effects of AUTOMATIC KNOWLEDGE with any skill that lets you recall knowledge, True Hypercognition at 16th which is only 2 levels later than Bard that lets you spend an action to get FIVE RECALL KNOWLEDGE ATTEMPTS.... All in all Loremaster isn't as Luke Warm as you'd think and could technically beat out a Multiclass Dedication in bard if all you cared about was the knowledge related feats. :)
Also, the Quick Study feature from Loremaster can be great. Loremaster only lets you use it for Recall Knowledge attempts while Quick Study allows you to apply ANY ASPECT of the skill. Such as Sailing Lore being a viable check to properly crew a sailing ship or how "Cartographer Lore" would allow you to be able to make checks to make maps or potentially navigate in the wilderness. Quick Study isn't really an amazing feat, but it does have its purpose. :)
@@Gloomfall I feel that you can RP a lot of infiltrations with Quick Study; blending into an environment Agent 47 style: Become a believeable deckhand, townsguard, chef, etc. , raising no suspicion, just by quickly observing a scenery the day before. - That with e.g. a Mastermind Rogue ( do not know how great that combo would be) , and you can quickly grow your infamy as Keyser Sose . ^^
Great video, only halfway through, to tired to watch the rest now, but I think you missed something on the Read Shibboleths feat: If they dont try to hide something no one rolls, you just get the minor piece of information and a +1 bonus on Diplomacy and Deception check. Only if the NPC want to hide something about his background he needs to make a check to fool you and if they succeed you get a false minor fact (don't know if these minor facts a rule terms, but I would definitly use it to give some informations to my players) So all in all, as long as the other person dont want to hide something and you talk with them for 10 minutes you get a +1 on Diplomacy and Deception checks for free, I find that pretty amazing.
I like it dome this way. You can still overlap clips from feats and such from other classes but this way seems to be easier for you to explain and show things.
I love the Loremaster. Just the dedication is great, anyone being able to take Bardic knowledge is a huge thing, it also doesn't suffer from dubious knowledge like the Dandy's Rumor lore. The skill feat to apply that to Decipher writing is also big. Quick Study is underwhelming but it does allow you to earn income or do specialized things like piloting a ship. The archetype also lets you take Assurance for your Loremaster Lore as well which is cool. I agree that the magic feats suck.
I don't know if it helps or makes the Loremaster better, but the formatting for the core in my opinion leaves a lot to be desired. Like for this instance here. No where near the actually lore skill in skills. However if you look at skill feats PG 258. Look at the skill feat called Additional Lore: Your knowledge has expanded to encompass a new field. Choose an additional Lore skill subcategory. You became trained in it. At 3rd, 7th, 15th levels, you can an additional skill increase you can only apply to that Lore Subcategory. That last line as I was learning this system made me double take... It might not be the case, but the way I ruled it at least in my game is that is how you treat all lore skills. Since I don't get it. Lore Skills in a sense are niche enough as is. A feat just automatically will make it legendary as you level up. A level 1 feat too. So that's why I think all Lore skills are supposed to just auto upgrade as you level up. So when they say your trained it, how I would see that is your the max rank you can be for your level.
I was just about to say this same thing. Lore skills can be used to earn income so in a campaign with a lot of downtime adaptable lore skills can be useful. Their are also package there in play things that I think this would be good for like fitting in with an industry.
33:02 alegro grants 1 person in a 30feet range the buff that marshall grants every willing ally in it's aura (10/20feet) that buff so yeah, perfect, if your martial classes are too far away to use like 1 or 2 actions to attack/use skill attacks
In DnD 4th edition, the horizon Walker was introduced in the manual of the plane's book. And it was all about traversing the multivirtual planes. Lol! "multi versal"
At 9:02 Nonat mentions that at Master Society you gain an additional language for every Multilingual Feat you have, and 2 at Legendary. Where is this rule? I would love to use that for my character.
Right on page 264 of the CRB under the Multilingual Skill Feat! " You learn an additional language if you are or become a master in Society and again if you are or become legendary." The skill feat is SO powerful!!
Yeh Phonetic Training is not something anyone should be able to do. That sounds really complicated. Like I've heard some of my friends speak Arabic or like Farci before and I wouldnt stand any chance writing what they say down, even if I used the English Alphabet.
You can gain legendary proficiency in skills at level 15. Certain class features give you legendary proficiencies at earlier levels, but you can only use skill increases to gain legendary proficiency at 15th level or higher.
Pheonetic training also means that you can pass yourself off as a native speaker of a language because you can speak it without (or almost completely without) an accent. This would be perfect for an assassin or spy. Also, the Marshal has a chance of failure on it's ability, The duelist does not, also they don't need to jump through hoops to get a bonus. I like Marshal, but it does not make duelist obsolete. Marshial is really cool. And while i don't think it by it's self is better than a bard. you can play a bard, Take Versatile Performance and Fascinating Performance, then just goo full marshal and be an absolute party support beast. Keep in mind that Alegro is only single target, but you can lingering composition it and cast another composition as well. So you can literally have Alegro up, another composition up, and ALSO have your aura up, and use your actions to give your allies uses for their reaction, so yeah. Marshal is freaking awesome and in my head i am already building a Marshal bard Bard and if you are standing in the middle of 4 party members (or 3 party members and an animal companion your party just cannot be flanked. period, because there is no way for both you and a party member to be flanked. OMG i'm making this build right now.
I think niche archetypes like Linguist can be mostly interesting in Pathfinder Society settings. The Society seems to care about those things a lot, even if surviving combat remains an important part of campaigns.
I think Message is better than you give it credit for, and is the clear standout for that feat. The ability to speak to anyone within 120 feet (eventually 500) without making a sound above a whisper can be very valuable in any stealth or subterfuge mission. I agree it's still a lackluster feat, but it's not quite so terrible. Also while it's super niche, Sigil did save my party once. We were in a very maze-like dungeon and our party got separated by a trap. The DM was actually having us all rotate in during our turns so that we didn't know where each other were, and couldn't meta-game too much. My character placed his Sigil down every path he went and it allowed the party to regroup much faster than we ordinarily would be able to. And since there was also a Minotaur in the maze with us, and we were too low of a level to be able to handle it one-on-one, Sigil really saved our bacon.
Quick study : only use I can think of is for working any job. Like make bartender lore or cook lore to work in a tavern. But I agree it should be better then lore master lore as a reward for picking the right lore for the day to use
I agree that Magical Edification does not seem to be worth a Class Feat for itself. I will say, though, that Guidance and Message are both excellent cantrips to take as part of your normal list. Guidance gives your party members a quick +1 to all kinds of rolls, which can be quite nice given how tight PF2E's math can be. That and it's only one action, which makes it a great use of a spare action you might happen to have in combat. The target of the spell gets a 1 hour immunity to the spell, so it's not "spammable", but that's probably the way it should be. As for Message, I find it incredibly useful for any situation in which you don't want someone else to know what you are saying or you want to be silent so that your presence is not known. That can be quite a few cases. Admittedly, you can use languages to accomplish some of that, but that relies on the unwanted listener not knowing the language you use as well as your party members knowing the language in question. So it can definitely come in handy.
Um... you can proc Target of Opportunity off of Target of Opportunity... You can have have 2 martials proccing reactions of of their reactions, acting like a machine-gun. And then they Quicken each other too, with Cadence Call and Tactical Cadence? You have a machine-gun party right their. Just get some Rangers (or be a Ranger who Archetypes into the Marshal for maximum single target), and though your first turn is meh, you kick ass with a party
Quick study is not good but it isn't useless. You are forgetting that loremaster can only recall knowledge. That's not the only use of a lore skill. Quick study can be used for earn income. So yeah it's bad, but not literally useless.
If your party has more casters than martials, Dread Marshal adding bonus to damage, especially on AOE type spells and things like Electric Arc is a pretty good reason to play a ranged Marshal ;). I'm working on a mid-range martial cleric, and will probably split my time between the front and back lines based on who's trying to dish out damage.
A Nomadic Halfling Investigator could, with Linguist and a few more takings of the Multilingual feat, speak 26 languages at level 3! Edit: could also work with Rogue, I guess. I already put one together in Pathbuilder some time ago. I named her Polly Glottal.
@@Nonat1s 22 in the Core Rulebook, plus Lizardfolk have their own language in the Bestiary, and Catfolk, Ratfolk, and Tengu all have their own languages.
Oh, and get this: Taking Multilingual Cipher at 4, then either Phonetic Training at 5 or Analyze Idiolect at 6, opens her up to take another Dedication feat at 6, such as Eldritch Archer.
So. As a linguist... The Linguist archetype is by far my favorite role-playing archetype, perhaps challenged only by the Loremaster. It is probably one of the most useless archetypes for the game. But man does it feel good to be who I aspire to be, at least on paper😅 Also, the phonetic training feat is super dope. Phonetics is a sub-section of linguistics that is actually very nuanced and complicated, and I know that most people would be able to write down sounds using their own languages symbols, but whatcha gonna do for the clicks and whistles of Xhosa? You know? There are specific, internationally-recognized symbols for phonetics that represent every possible sound that the human mouth and voicebox can make, as well as every combination of those sounds. This is even including sounds that don't naturally occur in any known languages. In short, only the absolute nerdiest and dedicated linguists would be able to transliterate an unknown language like this, in real time. When I read the phonetic training feat, this is what I think of. Your character would be an absolute master linguist at this point, so using this method they should be able to figure out basically anything that is said in another language, from spells to code, granted they have the phonetic symbols to represent the sounds a grippli or a kitsune can make.. not to mention a dragon or other magical beast... it would be rather impressive, considering that in real life, there is a relatively small number of people able to actuallu pull this off, and that's only working with the human anatomy. Long story short, Paizo did a great job making this class actually feel like a master linguist, and although it is completely underwhelming as far as adventuring capabilities go, for someone like me, it is quite fulfilling.
Ranged Marshall could be a 2nd line marshall or even a all range marshal (with melee and range) that just makes sure to dominate the encounter. And imagine a sword and pistol gunslinger (when they release it) marshall.
Marshall looks incredibly cool. You're right. It seems like it is a whole class within a class. Could you be a Bard Marshall that really leads their allies? My friend playing a Goblin Bard would probably pick this Archetype.
I was thinking that a Battle Oracle would fit really well, as it's melee and Charisma oriented. An Ancestors Oracle would like this too, as the actions aren't skills, spells, or attacks.
Right around the 5th minute, we jump from 6th level Horizon Walker directly to 10th level. I feel like we missed out on an Archetype Feat somewhere around 8th level. If characters choose this archetype, then they just simply miss out on an 8th level feat? What a bummer for me, that's my Wizards' next rank. Help!
Horizon Walkers have been different in nearly every version of D&D. In 4e, they were replaced by the Dark Wanderer Epic Destiny, which is... more or less what you described. 5e D&D Horizon walkers deal with planar travel.
I think magic the gathering plane walker sounds like what you were thinking. I think a master linguist rogue spy would be cool. thieves cant but every word is from a different language for encoding.
Linguist: Or a class that is made invalid by a level 4 spell... (Tongue). If you're feeling funky you could also replace it with a level 5 magic item (Bort's Blessing) or a level 2/3 spell (comprehend languages) I'm glad you reviewed it, but god did they miss an opportunity to make a class that further enhances and complements language based abilities and spells...
Tongues is Level 5, and both it and Comprehend Languages are Uncommon. Players can't assume these spells will be available in any given campaign, and they will not be able to select them until the GM grants access. Bort's Blessing is even more restricted, as it's a Rare item available strictly through the Fall of Plaguestone adventure and can't be acquired otherwise. Even if it was widely accessible, it grants a single language per day chosen during your daily preparations and so cannot be used to overcome language barriers without prior knowledge.
@@lillian7525 I did not know about rare meaning you can't learn them in your standard rotation. Still I feel like several class feats to talk a few languages is abusive and unnecessary
@@AlastarTehMaster If all you want is to learn a few new languages and you aren't planning on taking any other archetypes, you can just spend one class feat to get Multilingual twice - that'll give you 4 languages immediately and scales up to 8 eventually. You don't need to spend anything else on it, but the archetype does include a few useful skill feats that won't take up your more valuable class feat selections, and if you do want to pick up a different Archetype you can just take two of the skill feats to be able to take a new Dedication. As far as opportunity costs go, Linguist is pretty cheap overall.
I think the Horizon Walker is meant for NPCs who chose the profession of a Sherpa. A Sherpa NPC can effectively carry a group of 4 players with this archetype
I really like this new style. I saw a lot of people already talking about the loremaster's quick study feat butt with the second great that grants spells I thought it was saying only secret page was heightened not all of them. Am I wrong on that?
As a GM i'd allow players to remember as many idiolects as they have analyze idiolect to as many individuals as they have linquist feats. But i guess the power of this archetype depends on how much your campaign relies of subterfuge.
Hey, Nonat. Loremaster Lore can only be used to recall knowledge. Getting on an airship and the next morning you decide to quick study Piloting Lore, now you can drive the airship.
It's still fairly underwhelming, since a level 1 elf ancestry feat, can get you that benefit with any skill, including but not just limited to a Lore skill, or alternatively with the investigator archetype, with a level 4 feat, you can take Flexible Studies, which gives you that benefit, again, with any skill, and you don't need to have observed it the previous day. The main thing I'd say you lose out with Loremaster, compared to the Investigator Archetype is universal Decypher writing, since you can pick up Keen Recollections as another feat, which is almost as good as a Universal Lore skill (or honestly just take Untrained Improvisation as a general feat) but in exchange you get the benefits of investigator feats and some features. I feel like it should have been a skill feat. Maybe it'd be a bit more powerful than an ordinary skill feat, though even then, I'm not sure, but it's already locked behind an archetype, so I don't see much of an issue.
@@GroundThing fair enough. I feel like a lot of the archetypes are ment to be applied more to npcs than players. Especially since one of the Linguist feats forces a check on someone.
@@TheUnluckyEverydude npcs are generally built using the monster rules in the gmg. They are much for flexible then the pc rules.ofncourse you.can build an NPC with the pc rules but it's very time consuming and much easier to bang out npcs with the pc rules. I would love to see Nonat do more gm focused content, would love to see some NPC and monster builds as well as more gm advice.
@@NerdPodcastRadio yeah I just apply these archetypes to the npc builds.
Ohh man, as an ESL teacher myself, the Linguist made me smile. As for the Phonetic Training. Picture your character listening to a conversation in a languages never heard before and being able to perfectly mimic that in order to seek a translation. Or maybe hearing someone shout orders in an unknown language and while disguised under an illusion spell being able to repeat the orders perfectly even though you have no idea what you've just said. It's a great feat in the hands of more roleplay-oriented players!
Yeah, it really seems written for the benefit of people who understand the real-world equivalent. There's probably a way to make it mechanically less dense in the wording, but I love that they went full Arrival and actually tried to explain some of what linguistics does.
Yeah, as someone whose about to go to college to become a linguist, it was pretty cool.
00:48 Horizon Walker
08:39 Linguist
18:15 Loremaster
26:21 Marshall
I just love that NoNat used Donkey Kong and King K. Rool as the example for Crude Communication. I laughed way to hard when I figured that out.
So, Phonetic Training is basically learning the Golarion equivalent to the International Phonetic Alphabet, combined with the trained ability to hear and repeat sounds that don't appear in your language*. This feat is incredibly situational - you have to be playing a game where language is important for this feat to be useful, but then I would argue that that's pretty much the case for the entire Linguist archetype. It's the kind of thing you might want someone to have in a campaign about exploring the Mwangi Expanse, but it's not going to be too useful in Absolom.
* Which is actually really difficult - the reason Japanese people typically have trouble telling the difference l and r is that neither sound from English is used in the Japanese alphabet; they have a sound that's roughly midway between the two (represented in the Latin alphabet with an r), so l and r sound almost identical to them. English speakers typically have the same problem learning to speak Korean due to the lack of difference between aspirated and unaspirated voiceless plosives in English (think t in top vs t in stop). Yes, I'm a language nerd, and this gives me an excuse to nerd about linguistics.
According to my old phonetics professor, that aspirated/unaspirated alveolar plosive distinction also exists in German, but only in the area around Kiel. It's really strange.
As I am rather late to watch the video, I tag along with my spare change of thoughts.
11:10 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet
I have friends in Germany around Kiel, and when talking their dialect it is rather hard to understamd them and neigh impossible to replicate. Fama est it was one of the reasons why German naval communication via radio was so hard to decipher.
if you dig a bit deeper into the weeds of aspiration in English, for many speakers, word-onset voiced phonemes /b d g/ are pronounced as voiceless unaspirated [p t k], which turns the contrast in that position into one of aspiration not voicing.
In other words, English speakers can more less distinguish actual aspirated vs the unaspirated voiceless stops, it's just that Korean's actual voiceless unaspirated stops are usually analyzed as "tense" (the pp tt kk consonants), and the other set is analyzed as "lax/unaspirated". The lax unaspirated stops are primarily articulated with a mid/low pitch, as compared to the tense and aspirated consonants which have high or high falling pitch contours. So the confusion is the aspirated stops and the lax/"unaspirated" stops, which is really distinguished more by pitch in modern Korean.
@@kori228 I wonder which dialects that happens in; it's not something I've ever encountered in northern England or Wales (or if I have, I didn't notice).
The Horizon Walker association with other planes stems form the 3e version of the prestige class, which, though having some abilities relating to "normal" terrain, was mostly taken for planar feature which enable among other things 3/d dimension door as a spell like ability, a great boon to a martial class.
The 4e version was like that too (I think it was an epic destiny). I remember they could out of the gate walk to anywhere in any plane within a day by just knowing where seams between the planes were.
What he said
Every Horizon Walker gangsta until the Sahaugin sorcerer casts Dispel Magic
And that, kids, is how I TPK'd my party with a single spell.
The Horizon Walker feels like a NPC or GM PC class. If you need a guide that gets you across a mountain range or into an underwater dungeon then this guy is it.
New format is so much more eye pleasing.
Glad to hear it! It seems most people prefer this one!
31:49 - 33:13 & 38:26 - 39:20 Okay I agree that on there own Cadence Call/Tactical Cadence has a advantage of Allegro. However if we look at the bigger build picture we can see that each Ability is meant for a diffrent role. In the case of Allegro it is meanly meant to by synergies with other Focus Cantrip to improve both spell at range. A 14th level Maestro Bard (the bard that focuses on Focus Cantrip & Buffing) gains Lingering Composition at 1st level withs as a free action If your next action is to cast a cantrip composition and succeed a Performance check it turns a 1 round duration cantrip into a 3 round (or 4 round on a Critical Success) duration and in conjunction with Harmonize so you can have 2 Composition spells active on the same turn give you some nice synergies. And most of the composition spells have a 30 or 60 feet/foot single target or emanation range compared to the marshal's 10 to 20 foot emanation range. But why even compare why not have the best of both world with a marshal bard ;P. Still love the video as alway's.
RUFF RUFF
"What is it Lassie?"
RUFF RUFF
"Jimmy and Billy went to the well?"
RUFF RUFF
"And Billy fell down the well and needs help?!"
RUFF RUFF
"Lead the way!"
the game of thrones show had a great example of read shibboleths when tywin knew that arya was not a commoner because of how she pronounced my lord instead of milord
Before the APG min-maxers would multi class into bard not for the cantrip or the spells, but just for bardic lore.
Loremaster allows you to make a know it all character without the weird music theme, and the reason gossip lore doesn't fit this neich is one it take two feats to come on line and two it has a very different personality to it than loremaster does
Linguist seems neat in like a spy or intrigue based campaign. If your character is trying to be a spymaster, or an anti-spy in that sort of campaign, it seems super neat.
Personally, the way I treat Lore skills is that anything that relates closely to the Lore is 1-2 steps less "rare" for recall knowledge checks. But, utilizing the wide-branching Loremaster skill only ever makes it one step less "rare" to determine DC.
For spot translate: you can translate any skill check that used words to remove any language barrier
Spot translate would be so useful with an enchanter in the party, someone highly focused on charming and suggesting to others.
Then. To take ridiculousness further. Sign Language Feat. Charm Person, Spot Translate, Sylvan Sign Language.
Also that sneaky DK reference.
For Loremaster Lore vs Quick Study: Just like with locks that need a certain training level to even attempt to get a success, the same would be for information. I may be wrong, but Loremaster Lore would let you roll on information for any topic that didn't require training, but you'd get the trained bonus from rolling on it, whereas Quick Study would get you access to information only trained people would know - see the sample Recall Knowledge tasks. This is in addition to what others pointed out in the comments about doing other activities with the Lore skill than just Recall Knowledge.
The Marshal, meanwhile, reminds me of the 4e Warlord, which was probably my favourite class in that edition.
Hell yeah. My group would joke that it was the best Striker in the game, his striker mechanic being the party. Through a Helm of Heroes on that guy so he can grant free standard actions a few times a day and you can do some crazy stuff. Had a group once where a fighter multi'd into it and I would grant him a standard and he'd use that to grant me a standard, and then I'd grant someone else a free attack. lol.
Pathfinder 1E's horizon walker had a bunch of planar abilities and crazy combos with ranger.
Basically binge watching this video series after picking up the advanced players guide in the current humble bundle.
I don't understand much of the mechanics implications of any of these (haven't actually played PF2e yet) but I'm really enjoying your enthusiasm! =D
Marshal is literally just the 1e mythic path of the same name and I love that about it.
Crude Communication reminds me of a scene in Out of the Silent Planet by CS Lewis. The main character, Ransom, is kidnapped and taken to Mars where he escapes his captors and uses his skills as a linguist to start communicating with the native sapient species. Quite fitting since Ransom was based on JRR Tolkien as they were close friends and well Tolkien is pretty legendary as a linguist (and linguistic professor) and of course has had a massive impact on modern fantasy and RPGs in particular.
Love that book! CS Lewis is great!
@@tommyglisten6501 Right? And the Space trilogy really does not get enough love.
Thank you so Much for these Archetype videos. As I don't get to play as often as I'd like, I had to fins other ways to enjoy this game, and making character builds is one of the ways I have, These Archetype videos highlight options for those builds that I would otherwise overlooked. Examples of builds that these videos helped on are a build based loosely on Rainbow Dash (an Elf-Aasimar Monk with the Acrobat Archetype) and possibly the Martial archetype for my build for Jaune Arc from RWBY (who's likely to be a Human Champion).
The major benefit of quick study is very specific loreswich lower the DCby even more than most lores. Whereas dergedaemon lore would be better than daemon lor which is better than fiend lore.
My preference is the eddied just what is relevant, it is easier to read and fallow. Also we can all look up the pdf or check the books
I have a nomadic halfling rogue linguist. Nomadic halflings get 2 additional languages, plus 1 additional language for every multilingual feat taken.This means that you get 10+int languages, just based on ancestry and the linguist dedication. With rogues having so many skill feats, I was able to get a large portion of this archetype's feats without spending any class feats. With legendary society and a +4 to int, I had to write down "all common languages" in the language section on the character sheet, just to have enough room for the uncommon languages I knew. (this is a lvl 15 character fyi)
Great format, ket it moving. the archetypes in this video were very situationally brilliant, except the marshal which can almost be reflavored as a time mage.
The Marshal dedication is pure gold. We have a champion of Shelyn in the group I am playing in. And as you said in your class ranking video, some class feats for the champion especially at lower levels are rather unconvincing. She is planning to retrain into Marshal Dedication during our next downtime. Dismissing these feats for a champion dedication might lead to one of the strongest builds in PF2E. A defensive powerhouse, really hard to take down, with healing possibilities, Marshal stances plus good reactions and as a Shelyn Champion access to the protection domain, where the advanced domain spell is easily one of the best in the game imo.
Lore master would work great for rogue mastermind. You'd get the specific lore dc to identify.
It'd free up a ton of their skill increases since they wouldnt need to up any of them. Well other than arcane so they can get unified theory.
That's fair. You wouldn't even really need to touch the lore skills so you could get a TON of stuff up to expert.
@@Nonat1s also, I would like to specify that Lore applies to WAY more than just recalling knowledge and deciphering writing, not to mention the Loremaster Lore skill only covers already existing skills (e.g. arcana, occultism, etc.); in a port town, take Lore: Sailing; congratulations, you can now sail a boat, or prepare a ship for sailing; encounter a circus after sailing to a new land, take Lore: Circus, now you can run a game in the circus and gain some money.
Lore skills cover so much and are so broad, and Loremaster Lore does not in any way cover all of them.
Not saying it's great, but you vastly misunderstood how this ability works.
This is better, since i can pause and read up on what we are talking about if i want.
Keep up the good work your channel is nice ! :D
Legendary Skill Proficiencies are possible as soon as level 15 for player characters.
10:31 Phonetic Training is like the only actual Linguistics feat in the dedication lol
Like I've studied Linguistics for 4 years and can actually do that, though it takes me a couple of listens usually.
The "phonetic script" used in real-life Linguistics is called the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)
The Duelist Challenge is a circumstance bonus and Dread Marshal Stance is a status bonus which mean they stack.
OH SNAP! Okay, you're 100% correct! Thank you! So I revoke my statement of "Duelist is Obsolete" lol. They're still not GREAT, but you could get some very solid damage consistency with Duelist + Dread Marshal. At level 7 with a striking weapon and Weapon Expertise, that's a guaranteed +6 damage to all attacks on top of normal damage die + modifier.
the Ranger marshal can be work even with mele allies, you can use a crossbow and clever position between lines and help the frontlines and be close of the backlines if they need you step in
I like the Donkey Kong reference in the Linguist section.
Hey! I was wondering when someone would get it!
Horizon Walker becomes really amazing if your GM allows you to retrain Favored Terrain when you move to a different area, otherwise it becomes completely neutered. Thematically this is nice though, i.e. the party spends two week preparing for the coming journey and on the last day the Horizon Walker just comes back from the wilds like "Hey guys I'm one with the desert now"
The party finds the entrance to a sacred groove of druids. The entrance is blocked by a stone door that will only open when the entry word is spoken in druidic (a la Mines of Moira in Lord of the Rings). Noone of the party members is a druid or can speak druidic, but the Linguist has previously heard some druids speak in their secret language and memorized/recorded a couple of words using his Phonetic Training. He starts saying random words that sound like druidic, in an attempt to guess the right word. Miracously, glyphs on the stone door start to shine and the door opens. He guessed the correct entry word, even though he has no idea of what that word means.
The Linguist's "Spot Translate" feat essentially makes you C-3PO in "Return of the Jedi," where he was translating Basic for his human allies to the Ewoks.
The marshal is for people who would rather play a massed battle game.
It also really shines once you start giving it to NPCs, making kill squad for the players to fight especially if they forgot to bring their fireballs.
Just found your stuff recently and I'm loving it so far! Thanks for all the work you do on these.
The phonetic skill seems to be that you can write in the same "sound it out" language as you'd see next to a word in the dictionary.
The difference between the Duelist's Challenge and the Dread Marshall's stance is that the Duelist's bonus happens automatically, while the Marshall requires a skill check, so it may not go off, and with a bad roll could prevent you from trying again for probably the rest of that encounter.
Hi, I'm Cliff Claven, Loremaster. Welcome to Cheers
I feel like you underrated Loremaster a little bit, since it also gets access to a bunch of Bard feats that make you better at recalling knowledge too. Loremaster's Etude, for example, is a Composition spell, which means you get an extra focus point to buff recall knowledge when you need it and cast one of your other focus spells more often when you don't.
You know what I liked about Phonetic Training? It allows you to gather any information and pay for someone that knows a language you don't (or even ask one of your party members) to translate it. It's amazing on intrigue or more social focused campaigns.
That's true! Get some info, but you don't even know what it actually says until it's translated lol
The Marshal's Target of Opportunity could work well with a Throwing melee weapon (like a spear)- especially if you ended your turn without adjacent enemies (by downing the last one, for example). You can get a free strike as long as one party member uses ranged strikes, so I wouldn't call it niche even though it restricts the weapons you could use a little.
I like both styles of videos.
Marshal is amazing, and you are right, they need more like this one!
something tells me with how complicated the Linguist is, that the writer of this Archetype neglected to pick it up
also, I feel like Tolkien would have this if he was a pathfinder pc
I did a build with the Marshal Dedication for a barbarian warlord. It is a super awesome archetype.
The Warlord lives on.
Long may he reign.
Hello there! Just wanted to point out for marshal that it specifies ranged or thrown weapon. If you happen to be playing a character with a melee weapon that has the thrown trait such as the trident or the club or the starknife ( I have a build for a paladin with ranged reprisal and a returning club with the divine weapon boost that makes the club better than the longsword) ranged opportunity can actually be very, very good!
Also a shoutout to the dwarven thrower weapon as being awesome for a marshal level 14 dwarf character!
Axe of the dwarven lords would also be amazeballs but... yaknow... what are the odds...
The additional feats for loremaster are better when you factor in both that you’ll actually get loremaster lore up to expert when you become legendary in another skill at level 15 and not just sit at trained, and that the DCs for lore tend to be lower. When you use any lore to recall knowledge, the DC starts at either easy or very easy, lowering the DC by either -2 or -5 respectively. When you get access to the assured knowledge feat at level 8, which essentially gives you assurance in loremaster lore, the DC to identify any level 9 creature is 26 and if you have a +4 INT mod and a proficiency bonus of +10 that would make your assurance “roll” a 24, which would be a success when you factor in at least the -2 for using lore. Being able to use loremaster lore to recall knowledge in anything with assurance is pretty powerful, especially for identifying creatures during combat since you not only recall what the creature is but learn information about it such as resistances and weaknesses. Even if the GM chooses to only lower every DC by 2, as long as you build your character optimally you can meet the DC of creatures one level higher than yours all the way up to when you reach level 20, and any creature above level 21 is probably gonna be hard for anyone to be able to recall knowledge on otherwise anyway. The rest of the archetype is admittedly pretty underwhelming, but if you want to make a character that can just identify anything you come across this is one of the best ways to do it.
I really wanted this to work because i thought that this was good enough to take the archetype; but the problem is that you can not add your INT modifier when using assurance, so really the assurance result in the example is 20; which is not enough even for the very easy DC. You cannot add any modifier, bonus or penalty to the result; it is a raw 10+proficiency.
To be fair to the Duelist, their Challenge action just happens while Dread Marshal Stance requires a skill check and can fail.
Just wanna quickly weigh in on the coordinated charge: if you go first in battle and use this, it might depend on the situation if your allies can even use their reactions.
"The GM determines whether you can use reactions before your first turn begins, depending on the situation in which the encounter happens."
@Nonat1s
There is something that I wanted to point out you're skipping on most of these Archetypes. The majority of these archetypes have additional feats that they get enabling them to take feats you wouldn't normally be able to get otherwise unless you were a specific class that drastically improve how good they are. For example, the Horizon Walker can also pick up Blind-Fight, Terrain Master, and Warden's Step. Normally even a Multiclass Dedication into Ranger wouldn't let you pick up Terrain Master until 16 (you can get it at 10 with Horizon Walker) and you couldn't get Warden's Step at ALL where you can pick it up as a Horizon Walker at 12.
Terrain Master lets you swap out your Favored Terrain to any other Terrain that you're in temporarily by just taking an hour to acclimate yourself to the new terrain. SUPER GOOD at making them flexible.
Warden's Step straight up gives your allies the effect of Legendary Stealth in any of your favored terrains so long as you're avoiding notice through the terrain. If you pair this with Legendary Stealth then you and your group can ALWAYS be stealthed while exploring and doing something else.
You should compare the additional feats they qualify for (Listed at the start of the archetype details) with what is possible through a Multiclass Dedication with that class and with the class itself just to paint a full picture of these archetypes. :)
Another example would be the Loremaster. It's a lukewarm archetype if you just go by the specific feats it gets, such as the Loremaster Lore being comparable to Gossip Lore. HOWEVER the Loremaster also gets the ability to pick up Assured Knowledge at 8 which is only 2 levels later than Bard, without needing any of the prerequisites. That lets you use assurance on ANY recall knowledge attempt. Enigma's Knowledge at level 14 which is only 2 levels later than Bard that lets you gain the effects of AUTOMATIC KNOWLEDGE with any skill that lets you recall knowledge, True Hypercognition at 16th which is only 2 levels later than Bard that lets you spend an action to get FIVE RECALL KNOWLEDGE ATTEMPTS.... All in all Loremaster isn't as Luke Warm as you'd think and could technically beat out a Multiclass Dedication in bard if all you cared about was the knowledge related feats. :)
Also, the Quick Study feature from Loremaster can be great. Loremaster only lets you use it for Recall Knowledge attempts while Quick Study allows you to apply ANY ASPECT of the skill. Such as Sailing Lore being a viable check to properly crew a sailing ship or how "Cartographer Lore" would allow you to be able to make checks to make maps or potentially navigate in the wilderness. Quick Study isn't really an amazing feat, but it does have its purpose. :)
@@Gloomfall I feel that you can RP a lot of infiltrations with Quick Study; blending into an environment Agent 47 style: Become a believeable deckhand, townsguard, chef, etc. , raising no suspicion, just by quickly observing a scenery the day before. - That with e.g. a Mastermind Rogue ( do not know how great that combo would be) , and you can quickly grow your infamy as Keyser Sose . ^^
Great video, only halfway through, to tired to watch the rest now, but I think you missed something on the Read Shibboleths feat: If they dont try to hide something no one rolls, you just get the minor piece of information and a +1 bonus on Diplomacy and Deception check. Only if the NPC want to hide something about his background he needs to make a check to fool you and if they succeed you get a false minor fact (don't know if these minor facts a rule terms, but I would definitly use it to give some informations to my players) So all in all, as long as the other person dont want to hide something and you talk with them for 10 minutes you get a +1 on Diplomacy and Deception checks for free, I find that pretty amazing.
Ah, okay! I missed that! Great catch! It definitely makes the skill a bit better.
I like it dome this way. You can still overlap clips from feats and such from other classes but this way seems to be easier for you to explain and show things.
Could loremaster be used to recall knowledge on multiple enemy types at once? I.e. for a thoumaturge
I love the Loremaster. Just the dedication is great, anyone being able to take Bardic knowledge is a huge thing, it also doesn't suffer from dubious knowledge like the Dandy's Rumor lore. The skill feat to apply that to Decipher writing is also big. Quick Study is underwhelming but it does allow you to earn income or do specialized things like piloting a ship. The archetype also lets you take Assurance for your Loremaster Lore as well which is cool. I agree that the magic feats suck.
I don't know if it helps or makes the Loremaster better, but the formatting for the core in my opinion leaves a lot to be desired. Like for this instance here. No where near the actually lore skill in skills. However if you look at skill feats PG 258. Look at the skill feat called Additional Lore: Your knowledge has expanded to encompass a new field. Choose an additional Lore skill subcategory. You became trained in it. At 3rd, 7th, 15th levels, you can an additional skill increase you can only apply to that Lore Subcategory.
That last line as I was learning this system made me double take... It might not be the case, but the way I ruled it at least in my game is that is how you treat all lore skills. Since I don't get it. Lore Skills in a sense are niche enough as is. A feat just automatically will make it legendary as you level up. A level 1 feat too. So that's why I think all Lore skills are supposed to just auto upgrade as you level up. So when they say your trained it, how I would see that is your the max rank you can be for your level.
Personally, I don't care what your background looks like. I listen to your videos driving to and from work.
You can use a lore skill for things other than recall knowledge like earn an income I think
I was just about to say this same thing. Lore skills can be used to earn income so in a campaign with a lot of downtime adaptable lore skills can be useful. Their are also package there in play things that I think this would be good for like fitting in with an industry.
33:02 alegro grants 1 person in a 30feet range the buff
that marshall grants every willing ally in it's aura (10/20feet) that buff
so yeah, perfect, if your martial classes are too far away to use like 1 or 2 actions to attack/use skill attacks
In DnD 4th edition, the horizon Walker was introduced in the manual of the plane's book. And it was all about traversing the multivirtual planes. Lol! "multi versal"
At 9:02 Nonat mentions that at Master Society you gain an additional language for every Multilingual Feat you have, and 2 at Legendary. Where is this rule? I would love to use that for my character.
Right on page 264 of the CRB under the Multilingual Skill Feat! " You learn an additional language if you are or become a master in Society and again if you are or become legendary."
The skill feat is SO powerful!!
@@Nonat1s oh my god I had never noticed that line before. And I am taking Multilingual this week. Thank you!!
@@lumbybronzearm You got it! I hope the extra languages come in handy!
Yeh Phonetic Training is not something anyone should be able to do. That sounds really complicated. Like I've heard some of my friends speak Arabic or like Farci before and I wouldnt stand any chance writing what they say down, even if I used the English Alphabet.
You can gain legendary proficiency in skills at level 15. Certain class features give you legendary proficiencies at earlier levels, but you can only use skill increases to gain legendary proficiency at 15th level or higher.
Pheonetic training also means that you can pass yourself off as a native speaker of a language because you can speak it without (or almost completely without) an accent. This would be perfect for an assassin or spy. Also, the Marshal has a chance of failure on it's ability, The duelist does not, also they don't need to jump through hoops to get a bonus. I like Marshal, but it does not make duelist obsolete.
Marshial is really cool. And while i don't think it by it's self is better than a bard. you can play a bard, Take Versatile Performance and Fascinating Performance, then just goo full marshal and be an absolute party support beast. Keep in mind that Alegro is only single target, but you can lingering composition it and cast another composition as well. So you can literally have Alegro up, another composition up, and ALSO have your aura up, and use your actions to give your allies uses for their reaction, so yeah. Marshal is freaking awesome and in my head i am already building a Marshal bard Bard and if you are standing in the middle of 4 party members (or 3 party members and an animal companion your party just cannot be flanked. period, because there is no way for both you and a party member to be flanked. OMG i'm making this build right now.
even if you had just like a dagger you could do the extra attack at -2 its still extra damage as a quick thrown weapon or something like that
I think niche archetypes like Linguist can be mostly interesting in Pathfinder Society settings. The Society seems to care about those things a lot, even if surviving combat remains an important part of campaigns.
I think Message is better than you give it credit for, and is the clear standout for that feat.
The ability to speak to anyone within 120 feet (eventually 500) without making a sound above a whisper can be very valuable in any stealth or subterfuge mission.
I agree it's still a lackluster feat, but it's not quite so terrible.
Also while it's super niche, Sigil did save my party once. We were in a very maze-like dungeon and our party got separated by a trap. The DM was actually having us all rotate in during our turns so that we didn't know where each other were, and couldn't meta-game too much. My character placed his Sigil down every path he went and it allowed the party to regroup much faster than we ordinarily would be able to. And since there was also a Minotaur in the maze with us, and we were too low of a level to be able to handle it one-on-one, Sigil really saved our bacon.
Quick study : only use I can think of is for working any job. Like make bartender lore or cook lore to work in a tavern.
But I agree it should be better then lore master lore as a reward for picking the right lore for the day to use
I agree that Magical Edification does not seem to be worth a Class Feat for itself. I will say, though, that Guidance and Message are both excellent cantrips to take as part of your normal list.
Guidance gives your party members a quick +1 to all kinds of rolls, which can be quite nice given how tight PF2E's math can be. That and it's only one action, which makes it a great use of a spare action you might happen to have in combat. The target of the spell gets a 1 hour immunity to the spell, so it's not "spammable", but that's probably the way it should be.
As for Message, I find it incredibly useful for any situation in which you don't want someone else to know what you are saying or you want to be silent so that your presence is not known. That can be quite a few cases. Admittedly, you can use languages to accomplish some of that, but that relies on the unwanted listener not knowing the language you use as well as your party members knowing the language in question. So it can definitely come in handy.
Horizon Walker was originally a 3.0/3.5 prestige class and it WAS about extra-planar terrain.
Um... you can proc Target of Opportunity off of Target of Opportunity...
You can have have 2 martials proccing reactions of of their reactions, acting like a machine-gun. And then they Quicken each other too, with Cadence Call and Tactical Cadence?
You have a machine-gun party right their. Just get some Rangers (or be a Ranger who Archetypes into the Marshal for maximum single target), and though your first turn is meh, you kick ass with a party
Quick study is not good but it isn't useless. You are forgetting that loremaster can only recall knowledge. That's not the only use of a lore skill. Quick study can be used for earn income.
So yeah it's bad, but not literally useless.
If your party has more casters than martials, Dread Marshal adding bonus to damage, especially on AOE type spells and things like Electric Arc is a pretty good reason to play a ranged Marshal ;). I'm working on a mid-range martial cleric, and will probably split my time between the front and back lines based on who's trying to dish out damage.
The APG makes the Horizon Walker even better with Terrain Master (Spend 1 hour, replace your favoured terrain)
A Nomadic Halfling Investigator could, with Linguist and a few more takings of the Multilingual feat, speak 26 languages at level 3!
Edit: could also work with Rogue, I guess.
I already put one together in Pathbuilder some time ago. I named her Polly Glottal.
Holy crap! There's only 22 official languages (not counting regional and druidic)! That's insane!!
@@Nonat1s 22 in the Core Rulebook, plus Lizardfolk have their own language in the Bestiary, and Catfolk, Ratfolk, and Tengu all have their own languages.
Oh, and get this: Taking Multilingual Cipher at 4, then either Phonetic Training at 5 or Analyze Idiolect at 6, opens her up to take another Dedication feat at 6, such as Eldritch Archer.
So. As a linguist...
The Linguist archetype is by far my favorite role-playing archetype, perhaps challenged only by the Loremaster. It is probably one of the most useless archetypes for the game. But man does it feel good to be who I aspire to be, at least on paper😅
Also, the phonetic training feat is super dope. Phonetics is a sub-section of linguistics that is actually very nuanced and complicated, and I know that most people would be able to write down sounds using their own languages symbols, but whatcha gonna do for the clicks and whistles of Xhosa? You know? There are specific, internationally-recognized symbols for phonetics that represent every possible sound that the human mouth and voicebox can make, as well as every combination of those sounds. This is even including sounds that don't naturally occur in any known languages. In short, only the absolute nerdiest and dedicated linguists would be able to transliterate an unknown language like this, in real time.
When I read the phonetic training feat, this is what I think of. Your character would be an absolute master linguist at this point, so using this method they should be able to figure out basically anything that is said in another language, from spells to code, granted they have the phonetic symbols to represent the sounds a grippli or a kitsune can make.. not to mention a dragon or other magical beast... it would be rather impressive, considering that in real life, there is a relatively small number of people able to actuallu pull this off, and that's only working with the human anatomy.
Long story short, Paizo did a great job making this class actually feel like a master linguist, and although it is completely underwhelming as far as adventuring capabilities go, for someone like me, it is quite fulfilling.
Ranged Marshall could be a 2nd line marshall or even a all range marshal (with melee and range) that just makes sure to dominate the encounter. And imagine a sword and pistol gunslinger (when they release it) marshall.
Marshall looks incredibly cool. You're right. It seems like it is a whole class within a class. Could you be a Bard Marshall that really leads their allies? My friend playing a Goblin Bard would probably pick this Archetype.
I was thinking that a Battle Oracle would fit really well, as it's melee and Charisma oriented. An Ancestors Oracle would like this too, as the actions aren't skills, spells, or attacks.
The Warrior muse for Bards actually gives them a lot of similar abilities already! But the archetype is certainly not bad for any Bard.
@@FishFosh My friend is playing the Maestro Bard. He seems to enjoy it and the party likes having the +1 to everything.
Right around the 5th minute, we jump from 6th level Horizon Walker directly to 10th level. I feel like we missed out on an Archetype Feat somewhere around 8th level. If characters choose this archetype, then they just simply miss out on an 8th level feat? What a bummer for me, that's my Wizards' next rank. Help!
The marshal reminds me of a skald or a warlord.... A barbarian marshal would be amazing....
Loving the new setup!
Can you combine Scout and Horizon Walker with Ranger to get millions of Favoured Terrains?
Thrown weapons exist you know. That's where it can be useful.
Horizon Walkers have been different in nearly every version of D&D. In 4e, they were replaced by the Dark Wanderer Epic Destiny, which is... more or less what you described. 5e D&D Horizon walkers deal with planar travel.
Love this! Now witch review like magus or let's build please!!!
I think magic the gathering plane walker sounds like what you were thinking. I think a master linguist rogue spy would be cool. thieves cant but every word is from a different language for encoding.
Linguist: Or a class that is made invalid by a level 4 spell... (Tongue). If you're feeling funky you could also replace it with a level 5 magic item (Bort's Blessing) or a level 2/3 spell (comprehend languages)
I'm glad you reviewed it, but god did they miss an opportunity to make a class that further enhances and complements language based abilities and spells...
Tongues is Level 5, and both it and Comprehend Languages are Uncommon. Players can't assume these spells will be available in any given campaign, and they will not be able to select them until the GM grants access. Bort's Blessing is even more restricted, as it's a Rare item available strictly through the Fall of Plaguestone adventure and can't be acquired otherwise. Even if it was widely accessible, it grants a single language per day chosen during your daily preparations and so cannot be used to overcome language barriers without prior knowledge.
@@lillian7525 I did not know about rare meaning you can't learn them in your standard rotation.
Still I feel like several class feats to talk a few languages is abusive and unnecessary
@@AlastarTehMaster If all you want is to learn a few new languages and you aren't planning on taking any other archetypes, you can just spend one class feat to get Multilingual twice - that'll give you 4 languages immediately and scales up to 8 eventually. You don't need to spend anything else on it, but the archetype does include a few useful skill feats that won't take up your more valuable class feat selections, and if you do want to pick up a different Archetype you can just take two of the skill feats to be able to take a new Dedication. As far as opportunity costs go, Linguist is pretty cheap overall.
I think the Horizon Walker is meant for NPCs who chose the profession of a Sherpa. A Sherpa NPC can effectively carry a group of 4 players with this archetype
@ 31:05 aren't you considered your own ally? Or is that not specifically the case in 2E? I remember it being a thing I'm 1E
I know i'm late but I preffer this style. Have the text on screen, specially in my case, who speak portuguese, helps a lot.
I really like this new style. I saw a lot of people already talking about the loremaster's quick study feat butt with the second great that grants spells I thought it was saying only secret page was heightened not all of them. Am I wrong on that?
Oh god, you're right. That makes that feat FAR less useful. This poor archetype lol
I'm guessing they added attack of opportunity as a Feat 8 for marshall dedication after this video?
Tumble through that is all also spot translate maybe suggestion like spells?
As a GM i'd allow players to remember as many idiolects as they have analyze idiolect to as many individuals as they have linquist feats.
But i guess the power of this archetype depends on how much your campaign relies of subterfuge.