If you remember season 3, sahjan is the one that brought Holtz back to modern times. The reason being because there was a prophecy that Angels child would kill sahjan. Sahjan wasn’t corporal and couldn’t touch anything. So he brought Holtz back to kill the child before he could grow up to kill him. Sahjan was also the one who fabricated the “the father will kill the son” prophecy. He planted it so that Wesley wouldn’t trust Angel and take Connor away after Holtz went rogue. So Sahjan set a lot of things in motion that led to Connor growing up in quor toth with Holtz as his father and ultimately lead the gang to where they are today. So for this episode to bring back Connor and close that storyline by killing sajahn and fulfilling the prophecy is a really cool loose end to tie up. And this version of connor is so likable too.
One of my favourite Angel episodes. The conclusion of Connor's story is something that we didn't know we needed. I loved all the father/son moments here. The bad s4 Connor was just bad writing.
Can you imagine not watching Angel now. When you were first deciding if you were going to watch angel right now all I could think was your gonna miss season 5 😳. Such a great season, great acting just everything
I don’t know if you got it but Connor just became one of the most interesting characters in the Buffyverse. He has two sets of memories now, the ones from hell dimension that made him a violent unstable killing machine and the ones being raised in a loving family. He seems to now have the emotional maturity from the latter to deal with the events in the former. His statement to Angel in the end emphasizes that. The potential for Connor as a character now is incredible… too bad the show is ending in a few episodes.
As we told you Elie S5 of Angel was just off the charts with and intensity of episode on another level. This opens with a great scene with Angel and Wesley discussing Illyria, and the the crazed intense looks from Amy Acker are really frightening. We then switch to some parents saying their son was hit by a vehicle and just got straight up. Then we see Angel see Connor in Wolfram & Hart. Angel is completely spooked by this, and doesn't want to take the case. We then switch to the gruesome heart cutting from Gunn in the Hell Home, very graphic and disturbing. Illyria constantly punching Spike adds light relief. Great scene when Hamilton confronts Angel and says 'I'm not a little girl, and we wont be making love on that couch any time soon' we just know Hamilton will be a problem for Angel. Funny scene when Illyrai says abot Connor 'this one is lusting after me', he says its probably the outfit, I just have a thing for older women, a throwback to his relationship with Cordelia of course. Angel goes to see the abominable Cyvus Vail, who we now know is responsible for Conor's buit memories and alternate reality, and only he can kill Sahjan. We see Hamilton enter the Hell dungeon to see Gunn and try and make a deal with him, but then we hear the torture cries again. When Sahjan appears light relief when he offers Connor three wishes. Great scene when Wesley and Illyria confront Angel, and Wes confronts him and says you sold us out, to Wolfram & Hart, here is your 30 pieces of silver. Great scen too when Angel says you will have to trust me, and Wesley says I can't not anymore ans smashes to box. When it is smashed i seems to give Connor strength, but when the fight is over and Sahjan dead, it seems Connor still does not have the memories. When Connor and Angel talk towards the end Connor says I need to look after my parents, you've got to protect your family, I l learned that from my Father. Another stunning episode exploring the past, and giving us a look to an intriguing future.
Another much needed morale boost for Angel with everything he's stuggles with this season, he's made some very tough decisions that he's been doubting. Now he knows he did the right thing with Connor, and that it was worth it. Also Conners "lost in the mall" memory, this was no random writting decision and is actually very clever. It's based on a famous pyschological experiement that tested if memories could be implanted in people. In the experiment, the test subjects were gaslit into recalling memories from when they were a child and got "lost in the mall". It was a basic story, but a percentage of subjects not only thought the story was true, but even elaborated on the story. It proved that memory could be manipulated, very facinating if you want to google the "lost in the mall experiment" :)
Yeah, Connor is much more likable as a "normal" kid in his new life. Looks like Angel's decision to give Connor a new life was working out well (for Connor), but we'll see what happens now that Connor got access to his original memories.
I never got that Vincent Kartheiser (Connor’s actor) was trying and failing to be intimidating in previous seasons. I’ve always seen it as the writers are writing him like an annoying, petulant child who THINKS he’s more intimidating than he really is. Just like Michelle Trachtenberg gets a bad rap in Buffy for “being annoying”, I think Kartheiser gets a similar treatment.
Yeah, I've always seen them both as victims of the writing and direction - might have leaned into it a bit more than they should've themselves but ultimately it never struck me as the issue being them. Just on Connor for that point, seems like that's actually how they wanted his character to be - trying to be intimidating but just annoying in reality, can't blame Vince for it.
“You and I will not be making love on this couch any time soon” 😩I know for a fact I speak for many when I say ‘that’s a shame’😂 I remember watching this at an angel watch party when I was 18 and drunk and we were all very into Eves replacement haha I know we all don’t feel the same but like you said it’s such good casting! 😂
No, the police officer who recommended Wolfram and Hart to Connor's family couldn't have been Kate, because Kate is no longer a police officer, remember? She got fired, so she tried to end herself with pills, which is when Angel came into her home uninvited (thanks to the Powers That Be) and saved her life. That was the last episode in which we ever saw Kate. That was season 2 and Kate was never reinstated as a cop.
Brah you didn't get it.. Really... In a flash like The Flash ⚡ Connor transitioned to pretending he was still just family Connor he was that good at pretending
Connor is so much better in this episode I agree with you. I feel like this is the Connor the fans always wanted from the start, and for me this episode kinda rectifies his arc in Season 4. Also Illyria can stop time like she did with Vail in this episode? How insane is that ;)
If you watch Vincent Kartheiser’s screen test, this is the version of Conner he was auditioning for. He would have made a good cast member, but his character in season 4 was awful.
Imagine Cordelia still alive in this episode. Connor: "You gotta do what you can to protect your family. I learned that from my father. And my mother too." Angel and Cordelia shocked Connor truly understand about Angel and others sincerely genuinely loves him as Connor gives them hint of he have his original memories back while he fight Sahjahn demon. Remembering Angel is his biological father, Darla was his biological mother, and Cordelia is his surrogate mom. Connor appreciate everything what Angel, Darla, Cordelia and everybody did for him on his life. He grateful to them. Connor genuinely understands his biological mother Darla loves him so much as he secretly miss her since the night she died at same raining day when he was born. He secretly remembered his first female friend Sunny the girl same age as him and their first kiss. Before Connor goes to elevator, he gave Angel and Cordelia hidden smile at them a little. After Connor go inside the elevator, Angel and Cordelia stand at where Connor going. Angel: "That's my boy." Cordelia: "You mean our boy?" Suddenly ghost of Darla shows up and stand next to Cordelia. Darla: "I'm so very proud of his true redemption. I'm very proud of our boy. I forgive you Cordelia. It's wasn't your fault to play awful mind games on him and everybody the most while you was possessed by Jasmine. You're Connor's surrogate mother after I was died. I'm really proud of you and Angel for not gives up on our boy Connor." Only two members of Team Angel Investigations who secertly still remember Connor is Angel and Cordelia.
On the actor playing Connor (Vincent Kartheiser) being less of an annoyance here, I think it was intentional that he was trying to pass off as intimidating but didn't quite manage it in the writing, fits with his role better than being an actual threat. Performance might've leaned into it a bit too much but overall I'd go writing as the cause. Regardless, I definitely like him more now too.
Can someone please explain to me why they say that Angel sold them out to W&H? Sorry, I didn't watch previous seasons. I realize that Angel made them forget things with the help of magic and the company, but why exactly 'sold them out'?
And why didn't you? No wait, it's obvious. Well, Angel didn't sell them out they are just suspecting it, because there is something they don't remember. I actually used to like Spike, it is the Spike fans that give me second thoughts.
Sorry for snapping. The team collectively made the decision to work for W&H and to try to change the system from the inside. Everyone got something out of it and Angel got the memory altering deal with which he tried to help Connor. So when Wesley discovers that memories where altered, he maybe suspects that the others didn't choose to work for W&H voluntarily? He also suspects that Fred's death was part of the deal which it wasn't and at the end of the episode Wesley realizes he was better of not knowing what went down.
@@bernice6867 because it's not interesting for me. So? Am I obligated to watch whole 5 seasons because someone decided that I should? Why? I didn't know that I own someone smth with that show. Millions of other people just didn't watch it at all. Do you have questions for them too?? That's just childish. What's also childish is when a person can't separate fictional character from real people. If you like smth then you like it, if you don't then you don't. I watch what I want to watch. You like characters what you want to like. The end.
I am sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that I HATE Conner, and every time someone hates on him, it gives me glee. I know that makes me a horrible person, but I am owning it.
Weasley really needs to have every square inch of his arse kicked. Although, I'm pretty sure Connor was about to lose without his memories...Alexis Denisof definitely knows who and how many times 'to blow' behind-the-scenes to keep your story line going. He didn't even squeeze out a decent tear for Fred, so, his performance couldn't have been keeping him on the show..his entire arc is useless, yawn-y filler. Rant over. 🙄
Angel saying they were supposed to fix that about Connor liking older women always gets me.
Connor did have an Oscar worthy performance pretending he didn't know. I like Connor in this episode he is redeemed.
If you remember season 3, sahjan is the one that brought Holtz back to modern times. The reason being because there was a prophecy that Angels child would kill sahjan. Sahjan wasn’t corporal and couldn’t touch anything. So he brought Holtz back to kill the child before he could grow up to kill him. Sahjan was also the one who fabricated the “the father will kill the son” prophecy. He planted it so that Wesley wouldn’t trust Angel and take Connor away after Holtz went rogue. So Sahjan set a lot of things in motion that led to Connor growing up in quor toth with Holtz as his father and ultimately lead the gang to where they are today. So for this episode to bring back Connor and close that storyline by killing sajahn and fulfilling the prophecy is a really cool loose end to tie up. And this version of connor is so likable too.
One of my favourite Angel episodes. The conclusion of Connor's story is something that we didn't know we needed. I loved all the father/son moments here. The bad s4 Connor was just bad writing.
Can you imagine not watching Angel now. When you were first deciding if you were going to watch angel right now all I could think was your gonna miss season 5 😳. Such a great season, great acting just everything
I don’t know if you got it but Connor just became one of the most interesting characters in the Buffyverse. He has two sets of memories now, the ones from hell dimension that made him a violent unstable killing machine and the ones being raised in a loving family. He seems to now have the emotional maturity from the latter to deal with the events in the former. His statement to Angel in the end emphasizes that. The potential for Connor as a character now is incredible… too bad the show is ending in a few episodes.
Exactly. What a wasted character. They should have given us more of this Connor starting in season 4.
As we told you Elie S5 of Angel was just off the charts with and intensity of episode on another level. This opens with a great scene with Angel and Wesley discussing Illyria, and the the crazed intense looks from Amy Acker are really frightening. We then switch to some parents saying their son was hit by a vehicle and just got straight up. Then we see Angel see Connor in Wolfram & Hart. Angel is completely spooked by this, and doesn't want to take the case. We then switch to the gruesome heart cutting from Gunn in the Hell Home, very graphic and disturbing. Illyria constantly punching Spike adds light relief. Great scene when Hamilton confronts Angel and says 'I'm not a little girl, and we wont be making love on that couch any time soon' we just know Hamilton will be a problem for Angel. Funny scene when Illyrai says abot Connor 'this one is lusting after me', he says its probably the outfit, I just have a thing for older women, a throwback to his relationship with Cordelia of course. Angel goes to see the abominable Cyvus Vail, who we now know is responsible for Conor's buit memories and alternate reality, and only he can kill Sahjan. We see Hamilton enter the Hell dungeon to see Gunn and try and make a deal with him, but then we hear the torture cries again. When Sahjan appears light relief when he offers Connor three wishes. Great scene when Wesley and Illyria confront Angel, and Wes confronts him and says you sold us out, to Wolfram & Hart, here is your 30 pieces of silver. Great scen too when Angel says you will have to trust me, and Wesley says I can't not anymore ans smashes to box. When it is smashed i seems to give Connor strength, but when the fight is over and Sahjan dead, it seems Connor still does not have the memories. When Connor and Angel talk towards the end Connor says I need to look after my parents, you've got to protect your family, I l learned that from my Father. Another stunning episode exploring the past, and giving us a look to an intriguing future.
Another much needed morale boost for Angel with everything he's stuggles with this season, he's made some very tough decisions that he's been doubting. Now he knows he did the right thing with Connor, and that it was worth it.
Also Conners "lost in the mall" memory, this was no random writting decision and is actually very clever. It's based on a famous pyschological experiement that tested if memories could be implanted in people. In the experiment, the test subjects were gaslit into recalling memories from when they were a child and got "lost in the mall". It was a basic story, but a percentage of subjects not only thought the story was true, but even elaborated on the story. It proved that memory could be manipulated, very facinating if you want to google the "lost in the mall experiment" :)
I'd like to keep Spike as my pet
well, we can't blame her 😈
Yeah, Connor is much more likable as a "normal" kid in his new life. Looks like Angel's decision to give Connor a new life was working out well (for Connor), but we'll see what happens now that Connor got access to his original memories.
I love this episode!
I never got that Vincent Kartheiser (Connor’s actor) was trying and failing to be intimidating in previous seasons. I’ve always seen it as the writers are writing him like an annoying, petulant child who THINKS he’s more intimidating than he really is. Just like Michelle Trachtenberg gets a bad rap in Buffy for “being annoying”, I think Kartheiser gets a similar treatment.
Yeah, I've always seen them both as victims of the writing and direction - might have leaned into it a bit more than they should've themselves but ultimately it never struck me as the issue being them. Just on Connor for that point, seems like that's actually how they wanted his character to be - trying to be intimidating but just annoying in reality, can't blame Vince for it.
“You and I will not be making love on this couch any time soon” 😩I know for a fact I speak for many when I say ‘that’s a shame’😂 I remember watching this at an angel watch party when I was 18 and drunk and we were all very into Eves replacement haha I know we all don’t feel the same but like you said it’s such good casting! 😂
You have come so far from when you started watching this show n I didn't think u would finish it
No, the police officer who recommended Wolfram and Hart to Connor's family couldn't have been Kate, because Kate is no longer a police officer, remember? She got fired, so she tried to end herself with pills, which is when Angel came into her home uninvited (thanks to the Powers That Be) and saved her life. That was the last episode in which we ever saw Kate. That was season 2 and Kate was never reinstated as a cop.
Brah you didn't get it.. Really... In a flash like The Flash ⚡ Connor transitioned to pretending he was still just family Connor he was that good at pretending
Connor is so much better in this episode I agree with you. I feel like this is the Connor the fans always wanted from the start, and for me this episode kinda rectifies his arc in Season 4.
Also Illyria can stop time like she did with Vail in this episode? How insane is that ;)
If you watch Vincent Kartheiser’s screen test, this is the version of Conner he was auditioning for. He would have made a good cast member, but his character in season 4 was awful.
Love the reactions as always Elie, I'm hoping u'll be doing Breaking Bad reactions soon, one of the best shows ever!
Imagine Cordelia still alive in this episode.
Connor: "You gotta do what you can to protect your family. I learned that from my father. And my mother too."
Angel and Cordelia shocked Connor truly understand about Angel and others sincerely genuinely loves him as Connor gives them hint of he have his original memories back while he fight Sahjahn demon. Remembering Angel is his biological father, Darla was his biological mother, and Cordelia is his surrogate mom. Connor appreciate everything what Angel, Darla, Cordelia and everybody did for him on his life. He grateful to them. Connor genuinely understands his biological mother Darla loves him so much as he secretly miss her since the night she died at same raining day when he was born. He secretly remembered his first female friend Sunny the girl same age as him and their first kiss.
Before Connor goes to elevator, he gave Angel and Cordelia hidden smile at them a little.
After Connor go inside the elevator, Angel and Cordelia stand at where Connor going.
Angel: "That's my boy."
Cordelia: "You mean our boy?"
Suddenly ghost of Darla shows up and stand next to Cordelia.
Darla: "I'm so very proud of his true redemption. I'm very proud of our boy. I forgive you Cordelia. It's wasn't your fault to play awful mind games on him and everybody the most while you was possessed by Jasmine. You're Connor's surrogate mother after I was died. I'm really proud of you and Angel for not gives up on our boy Connor."
Only two members of Team Angel Investigations who secertly still remember Connor is Angel and Cordelia.
next episode is even better
On the actor playing Connor (Vincent Kartheiser) being less of an annoyance here, I think it was intentional that he was trying to pass off as intimidating but didn't quite manage it in the writing, fits with his role better than being an actual threat. Performance might've leaned into it a bit too much but overall I'd go writing as the cause. Regardless, I definitely like him more now too.
Broooo gonna miss u, have you seen Avatar The Last Airbender? It’s a fantastic react show
I didn't like conner in the other seasons. He is great now :)
The ending scene tho 😢
I didn’t pause a lot this episode 😜
Can someone please explain to me why they say that Angel sold them out to W&H? Sorry, I didn't watch previous seasons. I realize that Angel made them forget things with the help of magic and the company, but why exactly 'sold them out'?
And why didn't you? No wait, it's obvious. Well, Angel didn't sell them out they are just suspecting it, because there is something they don't remember. I actually used to like Spike, it is the Spike fans that give me second thoughts.
Sorry for snapping. The team collectively made the decision to work for W&H and to try to change the system from the inside. Everyone got something out of it and Angel got the memory altering deal with which he tried to help Connor. So when Wesley discovers that memories where altered, he maybe suspects that the others didn't choose to work for W&H voluntarily? He also suspects that Fred's death was part of the deal which it wasn't and at the end of the episode Wesley realizes he was better of not knowing what went down.
@@bernice6867 because it's not interesting for me. So? Am I obligated to watch whole 5 seasons because someone decided that I should? Why? I didn't know that I own someone smth with that show. Millions of other people just didn't watch it at all. Do you have questions for them too?? That's just childish. What's also childish is when a person can't separate fictional character from real people. If you like smth then you like it, if you don't then you don't. I watch what I want to watch. You like characters what you want to like. The end.
@@bernice6867 thank you for the answer.
I am sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that I HATE Conner, and every time someone hates on him, it gives me glee. I know that makes me a horrible person, but I am owning it.
Weasley really needs to have every square inch of his arse kicked. Although, I'm pretty sure Connor was about to lose without his memories...Alexis Denisof definitely knows who and how many times 'to blow' behind-the-scenes to keep your story line going.
He didn't even squeeze out a decent tear for Fred, so, his performance couldn't have been keeping him on the show..his entire arc is useless, yawn-y filler. Rant over. 🙄