Interesting and compelling concepts. I do have doubts that the idea of a linear city or ribbon city is the most efficient way to organize a population. I would think that something spread out in a relatively circular fashion would be closer to the dense, miniaturized form that he suggests in the beginning of the talk. It would be interesting to hear and see more, but some things about these concepts do not seem practical on the scale of a sizeable metropolis.
I do not understand, how is this different than apartments with local grounds? And having lived in those spaces, I want nothing more than to have a secluded cozy modern house a little away, surrounded by forests offering that would offer a lot of privacy. Like the homes they show in nordic movies.
If built properly this is workable, unlike much of what is done today. This would mean homes under the farmland and that is a good idea. It means that the surface of the roof is not wasted space as it is on the majority of homes today. Also many of the laws that prohibit solar and wind along with chickens and many other things do need to do. We have deliberately made living in many parts of the world unaffordable to the majority of people for the benefit of a small few.
Learnt about Arcosanti in 2008, went to see it in March 2013. It is a very big anti-climax, the only two positives anyone can take away from it is that academic ideas are not like the real world and that as a failure we can learn from it, to do better. Arcosanti, sadly is no longer inspiring.
It's still there and inspiring. Just sampling Jeff's speech now to use in some dub reggae.But your on point about academics and the real world. Arcosanti how ever does serve as a strange nexus point for a lot of different things and many folks have crossed paths there. The organization while struggling to find a mission persists and continues to continues to function Bells sell today today faster then they ever have and Cosanti Originals is one of the few producers of hand made bells in America. The term "Arcology" is out of fashion but you do not have to look far for it's influence in modern architecture. Multi use buildings are common now. And specifically the design of common and community spaces in newer assisted living living facilities.
Well, Arcosanti reminds me of rural Italian town that are now for sale for 1€ a house. Walkable towns, if you can arrange a basic infrastructure (groceries, doctors,
Dana Lewis I've always subscribed to the notion that surounding myself with people smarter than me was a great way to excell in intellect and in life. Here is a Great example of a good friend of mine who is Way intellegent and enhances my mind and my life.
If only these speakers were politicians as well as architects! Where common sense stands a chance, rather than being subjugated into something crooked or deceptive!
Nope. A top down vision will not work. We already should have learned this lesson from our history. It has to be bottom up. Top level structures always become corrupt, so we need to liberate the individual, yet create incentives to encourage discovery. Cosanti is just a small group of people... We need to allow the true creativity of humankind to manifest in order to approach any solution.
This is truly awful. I don't want to live in a mall or a football stadium. I don't want to be stuck in someone's social experiment like a prisoner, where I can never be alone. I don't like most of the people who live in my city, and this is true for everyone who lives in a city. Most people don't like me and I don't like most people, and this is a truism for everybody. The pattern that is already visible in today's society is that we use more energy and become less happy as we crowd out and increase density. It uses less energy to fly 100 miles in a small plane than it does in your average morning commute. The inconvenience of travel in rural communities and villages, means you plan things out more, and travel less frequently. I've lived in a country villa and I've lived in a city. In the city there is nothing to do near home, it's unpleasant to go for a walk because of other people, and so you have to drive to work, drive to shops, drive to entertainment or drive to the country side to take a walk. In the countryside there is things to do directly outside your door, there's few to no people out on the road. If there's an answer to affordable quality life, it's not in these ugly baseball stadium malls this guy is proposing, but in finding an affordable compromise between the independent manors we can't all afford, and the apartment dungeons none of us want to live in. Perhaps something like the isolated chatteaus and countryside apartments from the 19th and early 20th century, that you see sprinkled around Austria and Switzerland.
I enjoy using the freeway to travel to different cities and explore new places. Traveling routes are far older than cities, and they aren't going anywhere.Not everyone wants to be packed into a hyperstructure that conforms to a community standard. Where is the creativity in that? Some people like to own and design their own spaces. This guy starts this talk off bashing "little boxes" but promotes even littler boxes. Where is the logic behind that? Screw individuality! Let's all gather together as one in someone else's creation! This is perfect for everyone who wants to literally live inside a bubble. I certainly don't want to be in that bubble.
You're already living inside a bubble. Building arcologies doesn't mean you can't travel anymore or that Disneyland becomes defunct. There are many different concepts of arcologies. If you want a more in depth look at the subject i recommend Isaac Arthurs video on the subject. Also the Problem with the urban wasteland is a real thing. Watch Ecco Geckos series on that. No one is saying to demolish established citys like NYC for example. But the current city trend is not sustainable.
I agree that it would have been nice to have more information about the livability of these cities. I'm not convinced that being packed into such close proximity to other people would be better, but I'd like to see this having been given some thought.
It can be done, but the monetary powers that be, will fight this tooth and nail, as they put profit before people. Still though, I think this will happen. Chances are, the larger scale versions of this will not happen here in America.
Its a nice concept but doesn't take into account one thing: individualism. Ironic considering he is an architect and architecture is a form of individual art. So he wants us all to live in a single riboon-like structure that is mass produced. He wants collectivism in all things, and to allow the "powers that be" decide which is best for everyone else.
I just think it would have been nicer to have a detailed breakdown about how someone can live in this thing and not feel like they don't have enough personal space or the ability to find places of serenity without lots of other people around.
It has been around for 42 years, and has had thousands of students. And has inspired many designers, look at project such as the Burton barr Library, the work of Jon Jerde, teh work of Ken Yeang, and Emilio Embasz.
A lot of things wrong with this Talk. A coherent speaker would have been welcome. Facts about how we live and should live and could live would have provided support. Fewer philosophical ramblings that are hardly relevant to the issue would have made this better. 20 minutes and he accomplished nothing more that what I could have gotten from a quick Google Image search. Such an important subject, and this didn't help further the discussion.
+Tavis Highfill (Nick Fisherman) I think its important to discuss not just how they should be built and if it can be done but also why we need to make this step. All those philosophical ramblings about how this step into the future will change us are important because it seems like more than logistically these new types of superstructures will change the way that humans interact and live with the Earth and one another
Wow amazingly talented perception you shared. You need to open your mind to these ideas and apply your own in them. Judgmental thinking is deadly for the structure and health of the mind
***** it's not being "judgmental", it's being "critical". That's not only healthy, but completely necessary. The world would be a better place if we questioned other people's ideas more, and surrendered to them less.
***** I completely agree with your statement Nick. Questioning has been the greatest tool to the evolution of the intellect. And just like anything in life -too much or nothing at all is bad. Our mind has greater power when we balance both ways. Feel free to question this idea
That's kind of a problem with his project. It's languished from building to endless planning and philosophizing and pivoting goals. They really should just PICK ONE and proceed with a single plan. (I've been there - it's impressive but stagnant).
Who cleans the toilets? Who does the dirty jobs? Also, "Men die. Grass dies. Men are grass," is an improperly formed syllogism. The third statement does not necessarily follow from the two premises. All A are B. All C are B. You cannot conclude anything about the relationship between A and C based on those two premises. "All men are mortal. All mortal things are grass. All men are grass." That works, logically, but we know from experiencing life on Earth that there are mortal things that are not grass. If one of the premises is false, so is the conclusion. He's not as profound as he thinks he is. He calls them cities, but he describes self-sufficient art colonies. It's the Federation without starships. Perfect little buildings full of perfect little humans stuffed cheek to jowl. Real humanity wouldn't last a year. And that Indian arcology with the stair-step water flow under glass? I think that was a matte painting from Logan's Run.
I agree that art communes are not a representative example of these kinds of structures working in bustling metropolises. I really wanted more information about adapting a complete urban metropolis and making it not a nightmare to live in. I'm not convinced by the ribbon city concept either. It's just not the most efficient layout for a city. It's funny because he kind of contradicts himself by using the brain as an example and then goes on to show a city concept that is strung out in a way completely contradicting this analogy.
People don't want to get close to each other. 'Hippie-ism' false presumption of 'commune' will self destruct them every time. End the love affair with 'Dreamed Community' and Let Community Develop Naturally from the emotional input of its constituents. believe in...'life finds a way'...believe in...'you can find good in all people'.
Jeff assumes the false paradigm that American cities and suburbs is the most wasteful and energy intensive of all western civilization's architecture. It is odd that the US is neither the most densely populated nor the most sprawling. Its also is one of the few first world nations that produces enough food to feed itself. Indeed it feeds 75 percent of all the other nations on the planet. Perhaps if the world used our example, then they could feed theirselves also. It is also interesting to note that among the first world nations, the US is the only one that bears enough children to maintain itself. He should have concentrated more on the pluses of Arcologies than the Agenda 2030 mythobable. Also by having a whole city under the same roof above ground, you put all your eggs in one basket that say a single F5 tornado can destroy. Try making them under ground. Old missile silos make good prototypes.
I am 16 my, our geneartion has to do so much! It shall be done! Check out the Venus Project and Earthships to see what and how to do it
These ideas and concepts are the fuel for our future in this planet. Great presentation!!
Interesting and compelling concepts. I do have doubts that the idea of a linear city or ribbon city is the most efficient way to organize a population. I would think that something spread out in a relatively circular fashion would be closer to the dense, miniaturized form that he suggests in the beginning of the talk. It would be interesting to hear and see more, but some things about these concepts do not seem practical on the scale of a sizeable metropolis.
Its about time!
Well done, Jeff!
this is beautiful architecture!
I'm 14. My generation needs to do this? It shall be done!
I was a dreamer too when I was 14, Now I'm a wise old woman. I don't want to live in a human farm.
I do not understand, how is this different than apartments with local grounds? And having lived in those spaces, I want nothing more than to have a secluded cozy modern house a little away, surrounded by forests offering that would offer a lot of privacy. Like the homes they show in nordic movies.
thank you and best wishes on your successfully inspiring the younger generations toward this vision of a new way to live
If built properly this is workable, unlike much of what is done today. This would mean homes under the farmland and that is a good idea. It means that the surface of the roof is not wasted space as it is on the majority of homes today. Also many of the laws that prohibit solar and wind along with chickens and many other things do need to do. We have deliberately made living in many parts of the world unaffordable to the majority of people for the benefit of a small few.
Looks like fort cities of medieval ages just 100x in size.
Learnt about Arcosanti in 2008, went to see it in March 2013. It is a very big anti-climax, the only two positives anyone can take away from it is that academic ideas are not like the real world and that as a failure we can learn from it, to do better. Arcosanti, sadly is no longer inspiring.
It's still there and inspiring. Just sampling Jeff's speech now to use in some dub reggae.But your on point about academics and the real world. Arcosanti how ever does serve as a strange nexus point for a lot of different things and many folks have crossed paths there. The organization while struggling to find a mission persists and continues to continues to function Bells sell today today faster then they ever have and Cosanti Originals is one of the few producers of hand made bells in America. The term "Arcology" is out of fashion but you do not have to look far for it's influence in modern architecture. Multi use buildings are common now. And specifically the design of common and community spaces in newer assisted living living facilities.
Well, Arcosanti reminds me of rural Italian town that are now for sale for 1€ a house.
Walkable towns, if you can arrange a basic infrastructure (groceries, doctors,
YES!!!
I thought this was the opening to that one apocalypse novel
There is that word again. Sustainable.
You can't be doing corridor arcologies without doing animal corridors first.
Amen!
Dana Lewis
I've always subscribed to the notion that surounding myself with people smarter than me was a great way to excell in intellect and in life. Here is a Great example of a good friend of mine who is Way intellegent and enhances my mind and my life.
how can i cite this? thanks!
+Darlene Campado A quick google search reveals your answer: www.easybib.com/mla-format/lecture-speech-citation
If only these speakers were politicians as well as architects! Where common sense stands a chance, rather than being subjugated into something crooked or deceptive!
Nope. A top down vision will not work. We already should have learned this lesson from our history.
It has to be bottom up. Top level structures always become corrupt, so we need to liberate the individual, yet create incentives to encourage discovery.
Cosanti is just a small group of people... We need to allow the true creativity of humankind to manifest in order to approach any solution.
This is truly awful. I don't want to live in a mall or a football stadium. I don't want to be stuck in someone's social experiment like a prisoner, where I can never be alone.
I don't like most of the people who live in my city, and this is true for everyone who lives in a city. Most people don't like me and I don't like most people, and this is a truism for everybody.
The pattern that is already visible in today's society is that we use more energy and become less happy as we crowd out and increase density. It uses less energy to fly 100 miles in a small plane than it does in your average morning commute. The inconvenience of travel in rural communities and villages, means you plan things out more, and travel less frequently.
I've lived in a country villa and I've lived in a city. In the city there is nothing to do near home, it's unpleasant to go for a walk because of other people, and so you have to drive to work, drive to shops, drive to entertainment or drive to the country side to take a walk. In the countryside there is things to do directly outside your door, there's few to no people out on the road.
If there's an answer to affordable quality life, it's not in these ugly baseball stadium malls this guy is proposing, but in finding an affordable compromise between the independent manors we can't all afford, and the apartment dungeons none of us want to live in. Perhaps something like the isolated chatteaus and countryside apartments from the 19th and early 20th century, that you see sprinkled around Austria and Switzerland.
Gated communities work. Demographic requirements across economic or academic lines would be one option.
venus project anyone?
im down!!
I enjoy using the freeway to travel to different cities and explore new places. Traveling routes are far older than cities, and they aren't going anywhere.Not everyone wants to be packed into a hyperstructure that conforms to a community standard. Where is the creativity in that? Some people like to own and design their own spaces. This guy starts this talk off bashing "little boxes" but promotes even littler boxes. Where is the logic behind that? Screw individuality! Let's all gather together as one in someone else's creation! This is perfect for everyone who wants to literally live inside a bubble. I certainly don't want to be in that bubble.
You're already living inside a bubble. Building arcologies doesn't mean you can't travel anymore or that Disneyland becomes defunct. There are many different concepts of arcologies. If you want a more in depth look at the subject i recommend Isaac Arthurs video on the subject.
Also the Problem with the urban wasteland is a real thing. Watch Ecco Geckos series on that. No one is saying to demolish established citys like NYC for example. But the current city trend is not sustainable.
I agree that it would have been nice to have more information about the livability of these cities. I'm not convinced that being packed into such close proximity to other people would be better, but I'd like to see this having been given some thought.
It can be done, but the monetary powers that be, will fight this tooth and nail, as they put profit before people.
Still though, I think this will happen. Chances are, the larger scale versions of this will not happen here in America.
who is this guy?
Its a nice concept but doesn't take into account one thing: individualism. Ironic considering he is an architect and architecture is a form of individual art. So he wants us all to live in a single riboon-like structure that is mass produced. He wants collectivism in all things, and to allow the "powers that be" decide which is best for everyone else.
When there are 10 billion people- Options will be limited...
I just think it would have been nicer to have a detailed breakdown about how someone can live in this thing and not feel like they don't have enough personal space or the ability to find places of serenity without lots of other people around.
Cool!
If it worked, it would already be started
It has been around for 42 years, and has had thousands of students. And has inspired many designers, look at project such as the Burton barr Library, the work of Jon Jerde, teh work of Ken Yeang, and Emilio Embasz.
A lot of things wrong with this Talk. A coherent speaker would have been welcome. Facts about how we live and should live and could live would have provided support. Fewer philosophical ramblings that are hardly relevant to the issue would have made this better. 20 minutes and he accomplished nothing more that what I could have gotten from a quick Google Image search. Such an important subject, and this didn't help further the discussion.
+Tavis Highfill (Nick Fisherman)
I think its important to discuss not just how they should be built and if it can be done but also why we need to make this step. All those philosophical ramblings about how this step into the future will change us are important because it seems like more than logistically these new types of superstructures will change the way that humans interact and live with the Earth and one another
Wow amazingly talented perception you shared. You need to open your mind to these ideas and apply your own in them. Judgmental thinking is deadly for the structure and health of the mind
***** it's not being "judgmental", it's being "critical". That's not only healthy, but completely necessary. The world would be a better place if we questioned other people's ideas more, and surrendered to them less.
***** I completely agree with your statement Nick. Questioning has been the greatest tool to the evolution of the intellect. And just like anything in life -too much or nothing at all is bad. Our mind has greater power when we balance both ways. Feel free to question this idea
That's kind of a problem with his project. It's languished from building to endless planning and philosophizing and pivoting goals. They really should just PICK ONE and proceed with a single plan. (I've been there - it's impressive but stagnant).
Who cleans the toilets? Who does the dirty jobs?
Also, "Men die. Grass dies. Men are grass," is an improperly formed syllogism. The third statement does not necessarily follow from the two premises. All A are B. All C are B. You cannot conclude anything about the relationship between A and C based on those two premises. "All men are mortal. All mortal things are grass. All men are grass." That works, logically, but we know from experiencing life on Earth that there are mortal things that are not grass. If one of the premises is false, so is the conclusion.
He's not as profound as he thinks he is.
He calls them cities, but he describes self-sufficient art colonies. It's the Federation without starships. Perfect little buildings full of perfect little humans stuffed cheek to jowl. Real humanity wouldn't last a year.
And that Indian arcology with the stair-step water flow under glass? I think that was a matte painting from Logan's Run.
the terminator robots
I agree that art communes are not a representative example of these kinds of structures working in bustling metropolises. I really wanted more information about adapting a complete urban metropolis and making it not a nightmare to live in. I'm not convinced by the ribbon city concept either. It's just not the most efficient layout for a city. It's funny because he kind of contradicts himself by using the brain as an example and then goes on to show a city concept that is strung out in a way completely contradicting this analogy.
I grew up near Arcosanti. It is widely considered to be a failure. This guy is a nihilist. Also, what's wrong with a "wealthy middle-class"?
It’s the class that has to sort out that the wealthy won’t get bothered by the poor - that’s wrong.
buzzy
People don't want to get close to each other. 'Hippie-ism' false presumption of 'commune' will self destruct them every time. End the love affair with 'Dreamed Community' and Let Community Develop Naturally from the emotional input of its constituents. believe in...'life finds a way'...believe in...'you can find good in all people'.
nice, but i cant help thinking that they would become filthy stinking homogenous shoeboxes.
Jeff assumes the false paradigm that American cities and suburbs is the most wasteful and energy intensive of all western civilization's architecture. It is odd that the US is neither the most densely populated nor the most sprawling. Its also is one of the few first world nations that produces enough food to feed itself. Indeed it feeds 75 percent of all the other nations on the planet. Perhaps if the world used our example, then they could feed theirselves also. It is also interesting to note that among the first world nations, the US is the only one that bears enough children to maintain itself. He should have concentrated more on the pluses of Arcologies than the Agenda 2030 mythobable. Also by having a whole city under the same roof above ground, you put all your eggs in one basket that say a single F5 tornado can destroy. Try making them under ground. Old missile silos make good prototypes.
And here we go again - American exceptionalism - that American dream you have to be asleep to believe it. Priceless