I've seen blocks split by certain 12 ga slugs like the "hydra shock", the thing the ones that split the block in half have in common is they dump their energy very quickly.
I think doctors would have just been honest then. "Yeah, he dead, fam." Although maybe a bit more formal, because that's how people talked back then: "Aye, this man has deceased, my familiar."
Black powder velocities are not only dependent upon the total charge but also the specific formulation used. Goex is the slowest of the commercial powders. On the Everything Black Powder channel, he makes his own. He made some using Cottenelle toilet paper as the charcoal source and got velocities higher than the best commercial powder.
I've been watching Jake over on EBP for quite a while, and have successfully made my own "Antique Muzzleloading propellant" that beats the socks off of Goex any day of the week!!
@@rokclymer1 Watch out for extra chamber pressure if you're using faster-burning powders, but otherwise: YAY! VELOCITY! Cottonelle, kind of like icing sugar? I know this messy trick involving icing sugar ...
18:00 This is part of what made black powder warfare so brutal. If the ball managed to hit tissue that flattening means the whole kinetic load is getting dumped into your body. If that thing clips your shoulder you could end up with half your entire shoulder joint being blown off.
Not to mention turning any bone in the way into complete powder. There is a reason limbs had to be amputated, there was nothing left in them to put back together.
@@bigchooch4434 I'm no expert, but a huge chunk of soft lead rapidly expanding against my vulnerable mortal frame sounds pretty bad. Probably worse than just gettng shot with modern small arms anyway.
@@bigchooch4434 It's less to do with the gun and more to do with biology; there's a lot of important blood vessels in your shoulder to the point that any surgeon is going to roast any TV show that treats it as a minor injury. Anything that creates a larger wound channel is really going to create a problem.
Another fun fact is that soldiers, at least where I'm from, used to cut a cross fairly deep into their musket balls to make them expand/break apart on impact with the body. It was incredibly brutal.
Modern gun enthusiasts discover the fact that smooth bore muskets expand in the body, this was a thing and the reason why hollow point and tumbling ammunition would eventually be developed (soldiers were upset that modern ammunition didn't have the same stopping power as muskets).
I started shooting black powder in the 70's. It is definitely possible to load a black powder load to be supersonic. And you definitely experienced why we often called a flintlock a "flinch" lock. Also, not a safety trigger, that's a "set" trigger.
I agree. I hunt with a Hawkin similar to the one in the video .50 cal. I absolutely shoot supersonic ~1500 fps. I converted mine to a cap lock though. You bet, that's a set trigger aka a hair trigger! Pull that back trigger and the then the front trigger will go off with the slightest touch. In my experience it helps compensate for the tendency to pull your shot.
Thanks @jazzwhiskey582 for beating me with the correction on the 'safety'. I shoot a TC Renegade .50 cap lock with the set trigger - set to about 3/4 lb.
For future reference, if you want a faster lock time, you only fill the pan about 1/3 of the way; you never fill it all the way as it slows down the lock time. And it's perfectly fine to prime the pan with the same granulation of powder that goes in the barrel. Great video!
If you tilt the gun so the powder sits on the side of the pan opposite the flash hole, you'll get an even faster lock time. The goal isn't to burn the powder like a fuse, it's for the heat of the priming powder to flash through the flash hole to light the main charge.
I use 2F in the barrel and 4F in the pan. 4F is way better and faster for flash. When I go hunting I use 7F in the flash pan, no different than a regular rifle.
Always interesting watching people that don't know how to use flintlock firearms, trying to do so. I am sure plenty of people will have pointed out all the errors they made, so I will focus on the results that were a great video and show why such firearms were such a major impact at the time.
I can’t get over how good the chemistry is between you two for this channel. It just works so good. Every video is so well done. It is cool seeing the varying inputs from both you. One of the best channels on youtube in my opinion.
most users of black powder firearms of the 18 and 19 century used the same powder for both pan and charge. 3F will work well and in the larger caliber firearms 2F worked well too for the pan. It saved having to have (or lose ) different size powders. A properly tuned flintlock has no discernable "hang" time. You demonstrated "flinchlock" in your hold. Lastly you DONT want the powder to cover the "flashhole" i then requires for that powder to burn into the charge , like a fuse. Instead fill the pan about half way, as the "flash" from it will travel faster into the main charge.
Only thing I disagree with is the powder. I use finer powder in my pan for all my rifles that aren’t “factory” made. A lot of my handmade flintlocks have smaller touch holes in them and the finer powder works better.
I have a .45 cal flintlock hawken. I use 3fffg in the pan and the the main charge. Manual says 55gr is the max load for 3fffg and i use 50gr. I use a 0.018 lubed pillow ticking patch with a .440 round ball. It's pretty accurate load for anything below 75 yards. I hit a 8in x 8in square piece of copper sheet metal at 75 yards 4 of 7 times, wasn't happy with it; but glad i actually hit the sheet more than once. lol
I was going to say the same thing. As far as I know, the benefit of finer grain priming powder is that it will ignite from the sparks more readily and burn off more quickly, which generates a fast, hot flash that reaches the chamber sooner. So it will reduce lock time, but it does it indirectly.
As a guy who shoots almost nothing except black powder, this was a breath of fresh air. There's SHOCKINGLY little good content going over this sort of thing on this platform. I have an 1861 Springfield, .58 caliber that I absolutely love. It fires Minie Balls, and if y'all are up to it I would LOVE to see the difference between standard balls, minie balls and modern ammunition. A torso test would also be VERY interesting to see. Maybe try out an American Long Rifle/Kentucky/Pennsylvania Rifle with a longer barrel and see if you can actually crack mach 2? Would also be cool to see y'all check out caplocks and modern inline muzzleloaders with 209 primers to see how much closer they get to modern ammunition's ignition times as measured here.
As a Canadian who has no access and no budget to fire black powder firearms, I'm happy that there is actually GOOD content now that shows off black powder. Most history channels and such use blanks or whatever, I have never really seen the real delay between pulling the trigger and firing. The ball is now there to temporarily block the pressure of the powder, so it isn't as instantaneous like it is in reenactments.
I giggle every time I hear someone pronounce it Minnie ball. It was invented by a French man named Minier. Pronounced Min-eya. Americans love to butcher names and words to make them their own.
This is why our great great great grandfathers were tearing things up back in the old days. All the old black powder rifles and pistols were large caliber and they packed a punch. The wounds were devastating and a primary reason why a lot of people had to undergo amputation of limbs because there was no saving what was left.
1:50 The 4Fg powder is used in the pan because it's faster-burning, not because you want that powder to fill in the vent hole. In fact, you want to keep that vent hole clear of powder because burning gases move faster down that vent than a packed column of fine gunpowder. They call it the 'fuse effect' and it slows down the ignition time.
Oh that makes sense, hadn't heard of the fuse effect. I was surprised in the highspeed how few sparks are made by the flint; I imagine finer powder is also easier to ignite?
@@bladewind0verlord slightly. It simply covers the pan better and offers more surface to catch one of the sparks. The trick though really is to not put too much powder in the pan. Keep the vent hole clear and only put enough powder into the pan in order to cover the area. my rule of thumb is that the volume inside of the pan has to be filled up one third to half with fine powder. In the barrel, you want to use slightly slower burning powder to keep the pressure curve in harmony with the barrel length. So the shorter the barrel, the finer the powder you can try using but the differences aren't huge. What's also important is the quality of the lock. Good harmonising of the cock and the frizzen in terms of resistance/power of the different springs is one aspect. sometimes it helps to put a bit grease on the surface of the spring that's holding the frizzen in place to make it quicker.
The second trigger on the flintlock rifle is not a safety, it is a “set trigger.” Pulling that trigger first sets the hammer closer to the edge of the sear, allowing for a much lighter trigger pull. It’s unsafe to carry the rifle around with the sear and hammer so close to disengaging, so the set trigger allows shooters to have a much lighter and shorter trigger pull once they are already safely aiming at a target
My dad shot a deer with a .50 caliber cap and ball rifle. Where the ball hit the ribs, there was a circle where three ribs were completely missing. On the other side there was three exit holes. We weren't sure if the ball split into three pieces or if the sections of rib penetrated the other side. The heart had multiple holes in it and the lungs looked like mush.
Pretty terrible to think about the reality of that - makes me appreciate our Veterans even more. Hurts the heart to think someone’s son was probably sent home like that.
4:40 the second trigger or the rear trigger is a set trigger, when you pull that trigger it makes the front trigger a hair trigger that will go off if you look at it wrong. It's not a saftey, it's for more precise shooting. Half cocked is referring to the first position the hammer locks into, this is your safety.
Some of the best black powder footage I have seen. Those rifles where so lethal. Not only did they dump most of the energy in the target but it would also have been a very dirty wound.
@@foxfire8284Another part of the problem was that, often times, a piece of the patch would be carried into the wound, creating a high incidence of sepsis as they might be linen, wool, a mixture of both or leather. With the haste involved in frontier battle surgeries, those offending bits might be overlooked, with dire consequences.
There was a reason why, the larger calibre rifles like the 577 using the Minie round, people tried to get them banned from battlefields, because they were too barbaric. Any wound, wherever it hit, was usually fatal eventually. Hit an arm, the impact literally shattered the bone into many little pieces, turning the limb into a bloody pulp, hit a larger limb like a leg bone or hip... not a pretty result. If the wound didn't kill you outright, the following infection usually did, as damage that severe was impossible to clean properly.
Years ago I had a debate with someone online because they called muskets "slightly lethal" outside of 100 yards. Said that at 200 yards a musket ball would literally bounce off of your skin. Glad to be back in a land of rationality.
These are actually revolutionary era rifles, so just imagine the damage of a civil war rifle! People really need to stop underestimating the power of these older weapons.
These old rifles were often 50-to-80 caliber. Black powder might not have as much umph as smokeless, but traveling at supersonic speeds? These things would fuck someone up. Literal bone crushers. Now imagine what it was like to get hit by a cannon.
@@Nikolai_The_CrazedDawg saying “imagine getting hit by a cannon” is like saying “imagine getting hit by artillery.” Cannons were used on entire lines and groups of infantry.
I'm not sure if anyone had mentioned it yet, but they do count as muskets, because they are still muzzleloaders, muskets with rifling are aptly referred to as Rifled Muskets! :) hope this clears things up
I love black powder content. Period. Big thanks to you guys and your team for making this excellent video! That being said: I've always heard you don't want any of the flash powder inside of or actually touching the "touch-hole." Supposedly, leaving a small gap between the flash powder and the touch-hole ignites more reliably. There should be almost no perceivable hang-fire effect due to the hole being clear and free to allow the flash to travel straight through to the powder inside the chamber, rather than acting like a fuse if it's plugged with powder.
You all should do a video with "Everything Black Powder", Those guys could offer some great insight and they are masters of the craft that is black powder.
I had a 54 cal BP with 425 grain minie ball and 110 grains of black powder... FPS was always in the 1,800 fps range. That is 3,000 foot pound of energy.... about twice as much as a 44mag 240 grain, which is NO JOKE.
@@andrewvu1752 That was max charge in the books. Go big or go home, right. Wasn't hunting with it. Just having fun shooting 10 inch steel plates. sent them flying.
@@andrewvu1752 Depends, you can d0 180 grains with a .75 caliber musket. The smaller the caliber the less powder, because you won't get full combustion anyways.
17:45 The up and down split is because the gel is supported underneath and the shockwave is coming back up off the table. Having shot historical blackpowder weapons as a hobby and professionally for years, I can tell you that these weapons are no joke. People disregard them a lot….but they dominated warfare from 1400 to 1900. Wonderful content guys. Keep up the good work and be safe :-).
That's historically incorrect. Firearms in general only came to be the dominant infantry weapon of the armies of europe and other parts of the world under strong european influence (north america, etc) from the very late 17th century onwards. And even then, most european combat doctrines relied heavily on a mixture of ranged and melee tactics until the mid-19th century.
@@meteormedia7021 The stopping power of old firearms was immense but melee stuck around for so long because reloading of the said firearms was still such a slow hassle. A cavalry rush with sabers into a middle of an unprepared group who were fiddling with their empty guns would give them a bad day. But guns did become the main weapons after they became reliable and mass produceable enough and melee weapons became side arms for most armies. Even japanese, when Portugese introduced Arquebus/Matchlock to them during Japans civil war Samurai fell in love with them and soon Japan had more guns than most other countries did. It revolutionized the Japanese warfare.
Me as a child back in the 1990's: Why were "Rifle-men" in the age of Black-powder so lethal?" Me as an adult watching this: Huh... thats why.. they were essentially using .40-.50 caliber super-sonic rounds to hit their targets....
for point of reference - many of the earliest guns put out similar damage to this, but they were somehow less lethal than crossbows of the day. old-fashioned weapons are pretty insane
@ talking about the ones first used over in China/Japan in the feudal era? Think that is because they fired larger rounds at slower speeds than musketeers/rifles later did due to them being more similar to small cannons than high-pressure muskets/rifles.
The time for the bullet to leave the flintlock rifle after hammer drop is roughly .18 seconds. The average reaction time of F1 drivers is around .2 seconds. So hypothetically, even if they were standing pretty close, an F1 driver could probably dodge a flintlock as long as he reacted to the trigger pull lmao
Our family in Maine has 3 1700s flintlocks that saw battle against the British and etc, I'm so stoked to get to see what they can do ,since we aren't allowed to touch the ones we have ,lol!!
@deauthorsadeptus6920 thanks, I've seen the replicas fired from a distance at fairs, Minute Man demos, but had no idea of ballistic capabilities/force, these guys put on a very impressive demonstration. I'm in NH, open carry with few restrictions.
I said to myself "The amount of energy expended into the head itself is astounding" and then 15 seconds later the actual percentage was displayed; 88% is a crazy amount being used to explode the skull. Keep it coming!
I think you might be overfilling the pans a tad bit. Normally, if you prime the pan with the right amount of powder, the gun should fire a lot faster. Flintlocks are finicky with their loads though. Some like lighter loads, some like heavier. My Hatfield American Long Rifle likes a 75 grain powder charge with a 12 grain primer charge. And it feels like it fires almost instantly.
ohhhhhhhhhh ! I love it !! the wonderful craftsmanship of how these things were created back then ! I built a handgun like this when I was 14, but with a percussion fuse !
This is the best video yet! Thank you! I have been shooting black powder guns, saw the bullets flattening out, and was trying to imagine what it looked like in ultra-slow-mo for years. I am so glad I asked you back when I discovered your channel. Please make these guns part of future tests.
I've shot muzzleloaders for about 30 years now, in the old days, as in the 1600-1700 and even early 1800's, flintlocks used whatever powder you had. Whatever powder you had was what you were able to get, so if you had 2F you primed with it, same with 3F. I can tell you I've hunted with large bore muzzleloaders up to .58 caliber and they are extremely destructive on a whitetail deer. I've shot them out to 150-175 yards and the .58 Minie Ball I used, same as what was in the Civil War, weighs 425 grains, just shy of 1 ounce of lead, about the same as a shotgun slug. Also, just because it has rifling, doesn't mean it can't be a musket. It would be called a rifle musket, such as what you have seen in the Civil War. Also, the second trigger on the muzzleloader is a set trigger. When properly adjusted, the rear trigger when pulled gives the forward trigger a hair trigger, something like 3-4 pounds or even less. Pulling that rear trigger sure certainly does not LOCK the forward trigger. It does the exact opposite, it makes it a very light trigger.
When I was a kid I used to think that guns were just long range swords, poking holes in the target like a rapier or dagger, the only extra danger coming from a bullet potentially remaining lodged inside. Thanks to TH-cam channels like this, I have a much better understanding of the harm a bullet can inflict due to cavitation, especially one approaching or exceeding 2000fps when the damage from the temporary cavity starts becoming permanent, especially when the cavity is larger than the body part trying to contain it. That's when things tend to explode like melons, as the rifle-struck head clearly demonstrates.
Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head
Another minor gripe..."going off half cocked" does not refer to what is stated in the video. It refers to a setting between fully down and fully cocked, that disconnects the hammer (or "cock" in period terminology) from the trigger mechanism. On flintlocks this position is just far enough back to allow the frizzen to fully close over the pan, and is about as close to a mechanical safety as flintlocks got (yes I know, the "English Dog Lock". Trying to keep things simple and relatively short). Theoretically, a flintlock at half cock cannot fire, since the cock is disconnected from the sear and the half-cock notch *should* be deep enough to prevent it from snapping forward, even when struck or dropped. But a poorly made or worn mechanism could fire even in this position. It's also a bit of a double entendre. Since the word had its current second meaning even then, the phrase could well refer to discharging a...er...load before the appropriate...ah...tool was fully...how can I put this...engaged. 🧐
I believe "flash in the pan" comes from these firearms. The term refers to something that makes a grand showing but ultimately fails to actually deliver on its promise, in the manner of a flintlock that gives a nice fireball from the primer charge but fails to actually fire a bullet.
So when I was doing some digging into the ballistics of my BP C&B Revolver I had, was a Pietta 1858 Rem, .44 with the shorter 5.5'' barrel, normal barrel length is 7.5 ish inches, but from what I could find with a max load of around 35-40 grains of FFF (used synthetic triple 7 triple F powder, so it ran a bit hotter then normal BP) it was comparable to 9 mm to 45 ACP in terms of ballistics going off of memory, the bullets I had where .454 ball around 120 grains, but was looking into getting conical rounds but never did and I ended up selling the pistol due to bills. Other BP revolvers with the longer barrels around the 7-8'' mark are around between 45 ACP and .357 Mag depending on round used. BP is nothing to scoff at, filled plenty of graves in their time and still are more then capable now. There was another channel who did ballistics gel testing with BP revolvers a 1860 Army and compared it to a 9mm and it was basically equal in terms of pen with the 9 mm having slightly better pen but not by much.
My ancestor a great great grandpa or another great in there lost his right arm just below the shoulder to a musket ball in the civil war he was from the south and was a spy for the north also ran slaves to freedom in the north. He recovered and continued to fight with just a big Bowie knife and a pistol. He had a reputation for being extremely vicious and violent on the battle field. Black powder based fire arms were notorious for removing arms and legs when they were in common use. And yep as described the pure lead rounds flatten out massively on impact but have tremendous energy behind them.
Okay for starters the term "Going off half cocked" did come from flintlocks, but came from worn tumblers or loose bridles, and not from using the second (set) trigger. The gun you have must be purpose built for a trigger to be the "safety" as almost all guns that have duel set triggers are just that, set triggers. One isn't the safety, one is a target trigger that makes the actual trigger a hair trigger, meaning it takes far far less for the gun to fire than if you didn't use the set trigger and used the regular trigger, which the trigger pull would be much more. I've never heard of a trigger being a "safety" in a duel trigger gun, especially one that looks like it's actually a duel set trigger setup. In fact @5:25 you can see the set trigger release when he pulls the actual trigger. Sounds like they bought the gun and the set trigger is set to the standard trigger pounds/Oz's. The screw in the middle should adjust it lighter, then you get less flinch as well.
I did IM series data testing as a High Speed Camera Technician for 4 years. You guys do almost what we did. If you guys want more accurate velocity data I would suggest buying a Data Acquisition system. I.E., "Genesis", and use it with velocity screens. Helps a ton =P.
This is a 50 caliber -- the British "Brown Bess" was 75 caliber (0.69" lead ball). This is going up from 180 grains to around 470 grains -- significantly more. The damage inflicted by these weapons was very often horrific in comparison to small arms wounds today. It was not unusual for limbs completely removed, bones shattered beyond the possibility of repair, internals absolutely devastated. Our founders ABSOLUTELY expected "the people" to keep and bear weapons of war. Also, based upon your comments the "hangfire" you were experiencing was in having powder in the touch hole rather than allowing the flash to pass through. You were essentially creating a short fuse that had to burn to set the main charge off. Properly tuned, flintlocks can be almost as fast as percussion. The double trigger BTW is a set trigger. It will make the regular trigger a hair trigger when pulled. It's not a safety device.
i have a similar blackpowder flintlock rifle and i shoot 80 grains of FFFG and a much heavier conical style projectile. Not sure the exact velocity, but around 1200fps and yeah you definitely feel it in the shoulder. I really appreciate this video as I always assumed when I hunted with my rifle that it was only marginal for deer, but seeing these results gives me a renewed confidence in that rifles lethality.
I'm honestly very surprised by the results! Sure I knew it'd be lethal. That's a given. But I wasn't expecting such amazing expansion and damage! Very impressive 👏
Flintlock tip... Use 1/2 the amount of FFFF powder for faster ignition. Most people use far too much priming powder. People assume black powder weapons are far less powerful than modern weapons, but you would be shocked how much more power they have. I once shot a 5 inch diameter tree limb with a 30.06 and then shot it with A 45 caliber black powder. The 30.06. Left a small hole and the black powder rifle removed half the backside of the limb!
That was amazing!!! I have never seen as much destructive power unleashed on a gel block. Way more than even some powerful rounds over on Taofledermaus or Kentucky Ballistics' big guns.
And it's far from being perfect. You can see that the ball is very loose in there, so a lot of energy is dumped in the air before bullet even leaves the barrel.
@@deauthorsadeptus6920 If you're talking about in the barrel, the ball isn't loose at all. In fact, the combined diameter for the ball and the patch is greater than the diameter of the bore, if loaded correctly. The reason that gases come out of the muzzle before the bullet exits is because it's forcing itself around and past the patch, because the ball cannot accelerate fast enough -- it has too much mass. If you have a chance, look at a fired patch, and you will see where the gases have forced themselves past the patch and cut it. This is called "gas cutting," and if severe enough, especially in guns that fire an unjacketed lead bullet, it can deform it and adversely affect accuracy.
Here in Louisiana, there is a seperate "Black Powder" deer season, where that is all you can use to take whitetail deer. MANY deer are taken every year with them. They are surprisingly effective..
Also super dumb, why use a less effective weapon that does not allow for follow up shots in the case that the animal either moves, or the shooter simply does not hit the exact spot they aimed for? I'm all for hunting, I'm not against hunting regardless of it it is rifles, bow&arrow or muzzleloader(or even knife hunting pigs as is a thing in some states), but I don't see the reason behind using inferior weapons to hunt when there are better alternatives. If people want to do it, go for it, I'm just saying that there are better ethical ways of doing it(semi auto rifles, or even bolt action).
@Kampos94 So are you saying that bow and arrow, and knife hunting is ok, even though they are inferior to black powder firearms, but black powder guns are not OK cause they are inferior to modern firearms?
@@Kampos94 Some people like the challenge. I've also found that people who hunt with black powder are generally more accurate marksmen. Also, archery and black powder hunting is just as ethical as modern rifle hunting.
The patched round ball out of a black powder gun is a formidable weapon. They are very effective in taking deer-sized animals and larger, when shot at the right place.
@joshcaron7478 aren't classified as "firearms" legally, they're still "guns", which doesn't have a legal definition. Get your "ackshually 🤓" out of here
You have to figure, a shotgun throws a 1-oz slug and it's not moving very fast. This is slower, and may not be as heavy, but it's still heavier than most modern cartridges.
Not sure if someone has posted this already, as there are a lot of posts, but if not, here goes. When I worked in the weapons testing field some time ago, the term used, which covered the time period from the when the firing signal was outputted (for you firing impetus) to when the shot (projectile) exited, was known as the "Firing interval". For me this was normally the electrical firing signal output from a remote or other type of firing unit until shot exited from the muzzle. For your black powder firearms, it would probably be classed as the impact of the flint on the frizzen, or for the 500 S&W Magnum pistol, from when the firing pin impacts with the outer surface of the primer. In both cases from this point until the shot exits. If you are interested in old black powder firearm ballistics, try the 2010 paper titled 'Ballistics of 17th Century Muskets'. The ballistics of these firearms is actually quite surprising! Anyway keep up the good work! PS If only I had some of your camera kit when I was previously doing my old job, which covered instrumentation, high speed photography, and flash radiography.
You guys do a great job with the sfx. Gav from SlowMo Guys made a video about how most high speed cameras don’t capture audio, and even if they did, the sounds would not be anywhere near as interesting.
Probably the most satisfying video to watch!! Yeah I seen Grand thumb had done how deadly these old black powder muskets are and the ball flattened out almost a 50-cent piece , I don't remember what caliber they were using but that would take your damn arm off Its like shooting a shotgun slug at somebody. Crazy damage, that's why they can take down buffalo and all kinds of crazy animals with black powder even if it didn't go that deep it was just such a massive wound zero chance of survival.
On the 50 caliber rifle with dual triggers, one trigger is usually the "set" trigger that makes the main trigger easier to pull and is not a "safety" trigger. Cocking the hammer to half cock is the "safe/priming" position. Most black powder firearms are designed so that the trigger cannot be released until fully cocked. This is done by a deep notch cut in the hammer that traps the trigger. That said, older guns that have worn internals can slip past the notch allowing the gun to go off "half cocked". Another situation that might be a "going off half cocked" situation: As the shooter pulls the hammer rearward to the full cock position, thus disengaging the lock work from the safety slot in the hammer, they lose grip on the hammer and it snaps forward to strike the frizzen and ignite the charge.
Just gonna say, "Set Trigger", im sure others have already explained this. I have a very similar Hawken .50 cal, that is cap fired, if you'd like to see if there is any difference hit me up
The sheer number of whitetail that have been taken by myself, my brothers and my cousins with almost the exact same rifles of staggering. 50 years this year of deer hunting with a muzzle loader.
They lost limbs because that was the medical science of the time period. Of the animals I've taken with my rifle with patched round balls, the wounds through the thoracic cavity weren't anything really special. 50cal hole in, inch hole out, around an inch and a quarter wound channel diameter.
@ but shoot a leg or hip bone that’s were shit sprinters. Also some of old lead balls I’ve found did seen softer than ones today . You could bite one flat
I was always taught that that second trigger was a “set trigger” that once fully cocked and pulled fully, would basically allow the front trigger to act like a hair trigger. Can someone help educate me?
Hi there! Owner of the Flintlock rifle they used in this video. Looks like something got mistranslated along the way. You are correct in that the back trigger typically is a set trigger, which turns the pull into a hair-trigger pull. This is a kit built gun with a wildly sensitive front trigger. The back trigger in this specific firearm puts a safe amount of tension on the trigger and hammer. I’ve never disassembled the trigger on this gun to see what was causing this issue, as the gun has worked well enough for my purposes as long as I set the back trigger for safety. So for 99.9% of flintlock rifles out there, the back trigger IS a set-hair trigger. For this particular flintlock rifle, the back trigger IS a safety trigger. Kit-made guns can have some quirks.
@@dbmwray That clarifies a lot, heck I just finished a bp rifle myself. It was a fun experience. Though I went with blackening my brass and going blond for my wood.
I like slow motion firearm videos, so thanks. Also, I did not read all the many comments, so maybe this is addressed already, but I offer these anyway. Yes, more "F's" is finer. The first er the powder the more surface area to volume, so finer powder burns faster. Thus FFFFg for prime burns fast, to get the ignition process going. Using FFFg or FFg slows the burn rate, which affects chamber pressure and projectile velicity. There have been extreme slow motion timed tests of flint locks looking at ignition speed. The prime does not need to be against the touch hole to ignite, it could be banked to the outside and the flame passing through the touch hole ignites the main load. That said, the testing showed that comparing banked away centered in pan and banked close, in all locks tested, banked close was always fastest. Also tested was flash hole position, slightly above top edge of pan, even with top edge which is called the sunset position and low in pan. All positions ignited well and all with powder close were fastest, this even for the low hole where banked close covered the touch hole. Thus many of the commonly professed "facts" were proven wrong by the high speed testing. You van find this if you search the National Muzzle loading rifle association web site. Lastly, the two triggers on the rifle are a set and main trigger. Gun can be fired with a heavier trigger pull using main trigger only, or if the set trigger is pulled first only a light touch on the main will fire the gun. Nice for precise target work. Thanks again for the videos.
I like the way we can see the shadow of the sound wave as the ball traversed the white, graduated background. The speed of the ball could be estimated by measuring the angle of the sound wave and doing the appropriate calculation.
Hope you all enjoyed another longer video! What other historical weapons should we test??
Do you have access to any anti personal mines, or did I miss that one?
Or if possible a napoleonic era cannon firing
@@BallisticHighSpeed 25 mm vs hard steel
I agree with a cannon 👆😅
You have to do Civil War Mini-Ball rounds next.
Never seen a gel block get split before. That was neat.
Yea after that i would love to see a ballistics torso
@@holyslothgod3623@garandthumb has done this last year i believe
Not even with 3 inch 12 gauge slugs, weird.
Need to extend that rifle barrel another 12" to take advantage of the extra powder.
I've seen blocks split by certain 12 ga slugs like the "hydra shock", the thing the ones that split the block in half have in common is they dump their energy very quickly.
This one goes out to all my 1400-1800's doctors out there who had to try and patch these poor cunts up
I don't think there's *any* patching up the last guy.
Yeah, I’m guessing the docs didn’t have to explain why they need to amputate your leg in the 1800’s.
Back in the day when a doc with a 50% success rate was a good doctor and that's before the infection
I think doctors would have just been honest then. "Yeah, he dead, fam." Although maybe a bit more formal, because that's how people talked back then: "Aye, this man has deceased, my familiar."
@@PapaDon850 some of those shots may have amputated the limb for them.
Black powder velocities are not only dependent upon the total charge but also the specific formulation used. Goex is the slowest of the commercial powders. On the Everything Black Powder channel, he makes his own. He made some using Cottenelle toilet paper as the charcoal source and got velocities higher than the best commercial powder.
Now who can say homemade stuff is worse than factory?
Talk about wiping the smirk off your face! 😂 Thanks for the referral! Going to check him out now!
If you are interested in black powder, his channel is definitely worth watching!
@BallisticBen247
I've been watching Jake over on EBP for quite a while, and have successfully made my own "Antique Muzzleloading propellant" that beats the socks off of Goex any day of the week!!
@@rokclymer1 Watch out for extra chamber pressure if you're using faster-burning powders, but otherwise: YAY! VELOCITY!
Cottonelle, kind of like icing sugar? I know this messy trick involving icing sugar ...
18:00 This is part of what made black powder warfare so brutal. If the ball managed to hit tissue that flattening means the whole kinetic load is getting dumped into your body. If that thing clips your shoulder you could end up with half your entire shoulder joint being blown off.
Not to mention turning any bone in the way into complete powder. There is a reason limbs had to be amputated, there was nothing left in them to put back together.
This feels like the "a miss by 3 feet with a 50 cal can rip your arm off" and 9mm blows the lung out of the body"
@@bigchooch4434 I'm no expert, but a huge chunk of soft lead rapidly expanding against my vulnerable mortal frame sounds pretty bad. Probably worse than just gettng shot with modern small arms anyway.
@@bigchooch4434 It's less to do with the gun and more to do with biology; there's a lot of important blood vessels in your shoulder to the point that any surgeon is going to roast any TV show that treats it as a minor injury. Anything that creates a larger wound channel is really going to create a problem.
Another fun fact is that soldiers, at least where I'm from, used to cut a cross fairly deep into their musket balls to make them expand/break apart on impact with the body. It was incredibly brutal.
Modern gun enthusiasts discover the fact that smooth bore muskets expand in the body, this was a thing and the reason why hollow point and tumbling ammunition would eventually be developed (soldiers were upset that modern ammunition didn't have the same stopping power as muskets).
Now the stories that it can blow off a limb are not that far fetched.
I started shooting black powder in the 70's. It is definitely possible to load a black powder load to be supersonic. And you definitely experienced why we often called a flintlock a "flinch" lock. Also, not a safety trigger, that's a "set" trigger.
I agree. I hunt with a Hawkin similar to the one in the video .50 cal. I absolutely shoot supersonic ~1500 fps. I converted mine to a cap lock though. You bet, that's a set trigger aka a hair trigger! Pull that back trigger and the then the front trigger will go off with the slightest touch. In my experience it helps compensate for the tendency to pull your shot.
Thanks @jazzwhiskey582 for beating me with the correction on the 'safety'. I shoot a TC Renegade .50 cap lock with the set trigger - set to about 3/4 lb.
Anti safety trigger 😂
I have a video on how to overcome the flintlock flinch If anyone's interested in how to train out of it!
@@JKHTX Pretty much. At least they can only get their ND in single fire. :)
the sound of "click" before the actual explosion of the powder is one of the most satisfying sounds ever.
probably the last sound many executed men heard
@@Sneedmeister exactly
If the powder exploded, they’d be picking shrapnel out of their foreheads…
For future reference, if you want a faster lock time, you only fill the pan about 1/3 of the way; you never fill it all the way as it slows down the lock time. And it's perfectly fine to prime the pan with the same granulation of powder that goes in the barrel.
Great video!
I fill the pan to the bottom of the flash hole. Gets it to shoot with the least amount of delay and fairly reliably
Exactly.
If you tilt the gun so the powder sits on the side of the pan opposite the flash hole, you'll get an even faster lock time.
The goal isn't to burn the powder like a fuse, it's for the heat of the priming powder to flash through the flash hole to light the main charge.
@@misguidedsaint3693 A little air gap works best
I use 2F in the barrel and 4F in the pan. 4F is way better and faster for flash. When I go hunting I use 7F in the flash pan, no different than a regular rifle.
Always interesting watching people that don't know how to use flintlock firearms, trying to do so.
I am sure plenty of people will have pointed out all the errors they made, so I will focus on the results that were a great video and show why such firearms were such a major impact at the time.
I can’t get over how good the chemistry is between you two for this channel. It just works so good. Every video is so well done. It is cool seeing the varying inputs from both you. One of the best channels on youtube in my opinion.
most users of black powder firearms of the 18 and 19 century used the same powder for both pan and charge. 3F will work well and in the larger caliber firearms 2F worked well too for the pan. It saved having to have (or lose ) different size powders. A properly tuned flintlock has no discernable "hang" time. You demonstrated "flinchlock" in your hold. Lastly you DONT want the powder to cover the "flashhole" i then requires for that powder to burn into the charge , like a fuse. Instead fill the pan about half way, as the "flash" from it will travel faster into the main charge.
Only thing I disagree with is the powder. I use finer powder in my pan for all my rifles that aren’t “factory” made. A lot of my handmade flintlocks have smaller touch holes in them and the finer powder works better.
G'day, Looks like some more Balistics High Speed needed to varify these claims.
I'm glad I checked for this comment because I was gonna say the same lol
I have a .45 cal flintlock hawken. I use 3fffg in the pan and the the main charge. Manual says 55gr is the max load for 3fffg and i use 50gr. I use a 0.018 lubed pillow ticking patch with a .440 round ball. It's pretty accurate load for anything below 75 yards. I hit a 8in x 8in square piece of copper sheet metal at 75 yards 4 of 7 times, wasn't happy with it; but glad i actually hit the sheet more than once. lol
I was going to say the same thing. As far as I know, the benefit of finer grain priming powder is that it will ignite from the sparks more readily and burn off more quickly, which generates a fast, hot flash that reaches the chamber sooner. So it will reduce lock time, but it does it indirectly.
Would you guys be interested in coming to film my cannon?
Love your channel and I’d love to see a collab!
Same here!
That would be very interesting
With the sabot rounds
"hey fellas wanna see my cannon?"
As a guy who shoots almost nothing except black powder, this was a breath of fresh air. There's SHOCKINGLY little good content going over this sort of thing on this platform.
I have an 1861 Springfield, .58 caliber that I absolutely love. It fires Minie Balls, and if y'all are up to it I would LOVE to see the difference between standard balls, minie balls and modern ammunition. A torso test would also be VERY interesting to see. Maybe try out an American Long Rifle/Kentucky/Pennsylvania Rifle with a longer barrel and see if you can actually crack mach 2?
Would also be cool to see y'all check out caplocks and modern inline muzzleloaders with 209 primers to see how much closer they get to modern ammunition's ignition times as measured here.
As a Canadian who has no access and no budget to fire black powder firearms, I'm happy that there is actually GOOD content now that shows off black powder. Most history channels and such use blanks or whatever, I have never really seen the real delay between pulling the trigger and firing. The ball is now there to temporarily block the pressure of the powder, so it isn't as instantaneous like it is in reenactments.
Seconded! I'd love to see this!
Oh I absolutely agree, I'd love to see that
I giggle every time I hear someone pronounce it Minnie ball. It was invented by a French man named Minier. Pronounced Min-eya. Americans love to butcher names and words to make them their own.
@@barbarapiercy4312 well no shit... that's how accents and dialects are formed.
You could almost say it turned into Guts and Blackpowder.
This is why our great great great grandfathers were tearing things up back in the old days. All the old black powder rifles and pistols were large caliber and they packed a punch. The wounds were devastating and a primary reason why a lot of people had to undergo amputation of limbs because there was no saving what was left.
1:50 The 4Fg powder is used in the pan because it's faster-burning, not because you want that powder to fill in the vent hole.
In fact, you want to keep that vent hole clear of powder because burning gases move faster down that vent than a packed column of fine gunpowder. They call it the 'fuse effect' and it slows down the ignition time.
Oh that makes sense, hadn't heard of the fuse effect. I was surprised in the highspeed how few sparks are made by the flint; I imagine finer powder is also easier to ignite?
Black powder is DIRTY. if you fill the "touch hole" it fouls very quickly and has to be picked clean more often.
@@bladewind0verlord Cheap/poor lock. All of my flintlocks are much faster in ignition time and produce a SHOWER of sparks.
@@bladewind0verlord
slightly. It simply covers the pan better and offers more surface to catch one of the sparks. The trick though really is to not put too much powder in the pan. Keep the vent hole clear and only put enough powder into the pan in order to cover the area. my rule of thumb is that the volume inside of the pan has to be filled up one third to half with fine powder. In the barrel, you want to use slightly slower burning powder to keep the pressure curve in harmony with the barrel length. So the shorter the barrel, the finer the powder you can try using but the differences aren't huge.
What's also important is the quality of the lock. Good harmonising of the cock and the frizzen in terms of resistance/power of the different springs is one aspect. sometimes it helps to put a bit grease on the surface of the spring that's holding the frizzen in place to make it quicker.
@@bladewind0verlord Their flint is blunt I think, you have to knap them every so often to keep them sharp
The second trigger on the flintlock rifle is not a safety, it is a “set trigger.” Pulling that trigger first sets the hammer closer to the edge of the sear, allowing for a much lighter trigger pull. It’s unsafe to carry the rifle around with the sear and hammer so close to disengaging, so the set trigger allows shooters to have a much lighter and shorter trigger pull once they are already safely aiming at a target
Maybe a little more research into these firearms is needed before making a video
PLEASE HAVE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT "SET TRIGGERS" EXPLAIN IT
Literally the opposite of a safety. A danger enhancer, if you will
But everyone with a slow motion camera and guns on the Internet is an expert! Especially if they’re a veteran! 🤦♂️ (I’m a veteran btw)
These guys are definitely NOOB's at BP
My dad shot a deer with a .50 caliber cap and ball rifle. Where the ball hit the ribs, there was a circle where three ribs were completely missing. On the other side there was three exit holes. We weren't sure if the ball split into three pieces or if the sections of rib penetrated the other side. The heart had multiple holes in it and the lungs looked like mush.
You just hear a loud bang and this is your friend right next to you 19:42
Ohhhh
Ohhhh
Pretty terrible to think about the reality of that - makes me appreciate our Veterans even more. Hurts the heart to think someone’s son was probably sent home like that.
4:40 the second trigger or the rear trigger is a set trigger, when you pull that trigger it makes the front trigger a hair trigger that will go off if you look at it wrong. It's not a saftey, it's for more precise shooting. Half cocked is referring to the first position the hammer locks into, this is your safety.
Some of the best black powder footage I have seen. Those rifles where so lethal. Not only did they dump most of the energy in the target but it would also have been a very dirty wound.
Explains why the death rate was so high. Not just because of poorer medical care.
@@foxfire8284Another part of the problem was that, often times, a piece of the patch would be carried into the wound, creating a high incidence of sepsis as they might be linen, wool, a mixture of both or leather. With the haste involved in frontier battle surgeries, those offending bits might be overlooked, with dire consequences.
There was a reason why, the larger calibre rifles like the 577 using the Minie round, people tried to get them banned from battlefields, because they were too barbaric. Any wound, wherever it hit, was usually fatal eventually. Hit an arm, the impact literally shattered the bone into many little pieces, turning the limb into a bloody pulp, hit a larger limb like a leg bone or hip... not a pretty result. If the wound didn't kill you outright, the following infection usually did, as damage that severe was impossible to clean properly.
Years ago I had a debate with someone online because they called muskets "slightly lethal" outside of 100 yards. Said that at 200 yards a musket ball would literally bounce off of your skin. Glad to be back in a land of rationality.
@russbilzing5348 if you notice between 19:04 and 19:08, the patch is deposited inside the skull!
So this proves that owning a musket for home defense could be viable in terms of damage
Just as the founding fathers intended
Just as the founding fathers intended 😂😂😂
“Tally Ho Lads”
Yeah just dont miss tho
Yep for 1 shot lol
@@rick516104 lol thats all you’re gonna need😂
9:23 and 16:37 This sheds a whole new light on American Civil War injuries. Holy smokes!!
These are actually revolutionary era rifles, so just imagine the damage of a civil war rifle! People really need to stop underestimating the power of these older weapons.
@KCCereal yeah, I was just looking into that. Brutal!
These old rifles were often 50-to-80 caliber. Black powder might not have as much umph as smokeless, but traveling at supersonic speeds? These things would fuck someone up. Literal bone crushers. Now imagine what it was like to get hit by a cannon.
@@Nikolai_The_CrazedDawg saying “imagine getting hit by a cannon” is like saying “imagine getting hit by artillery.” Cannons were used on entire lines and groups of infantry.
@Nikolai_The_Crazed like that armor from The Battle of Waterloo? Oof, no thanks!
I'm not sure if anyone had mentioned it yet, but they do count as muskets, because they are still muzzleloaders, muskets with rifling are aptly referred to as Rifled Muskets! :) hope this clears things up
I love black powder content. Period. Big thanks to you guys and your team for making this excellent video!
That being said:
I've always heard you don't want any of the flash powder inside of or actually touching the "touch-hole." Supposedly, leaving a small gap between the flash powder and the touch-hole ignites more reliably. There should be almost no perceivable hang-fire effect due to the hole being clear and free to allow the flash to travel straight through to the powder inside the chamber, rather than acting like a fuse if it's plugged with powder.
You all should do a video with "Everything Black Powder", Those guys could offer some great insight and they are masters of the craft that is black powder.
Obviously, lack of lethality wasn’t the problem with flintlock weapons
It was the reload time
(Along with lack of reliability in wet weather)
Reload time, range, the big cloud of smoke, weight, in some cases penetration.
Reload time , and weather issues are both huge issues. But the damage is crazy .
all the "powder" weapons are still terrifying! there is nothing a modern solider could do, if something like a cannonball is fired at them!
I had a 54 cal BP with 425 grain minie ball and 110 grains of black powder... FPS was always in the 1,800 fps range. That is 3,000 foot pound of energy.... about twice as much as a 44mag 240 grain, which is NO JOKE.
Pretty much a 30-gauge slug with a 12-gauge powder charge?
110 grains is quite hot for a minie ball. the orignal load was 60 grains...
@@andrewvu1752 That was max charge in the books. Go big or go home, right. Wasn't hunting with it. Just having fun shooting 10 inch steel plates. sent them flying.
@@rsereday fair enough 🤣
@@andrewvu1752 Depends, you can d0 180 grains with a .75 caliber musket. The smaller the caliber the less powder, because you won't get full combustion anyways.
17:45 The up and down split is because the gel is supported underneath and the shockwave is coming back up off the table. Having shot historical blackpowder weapons as a hobby and professionally for years, I can tell you that these weapons are no joke. People disregard them a lot….but they dominated warfare from 1400 to 1900. Wonderful content guys. Keep up the good work and be safe :-).
That's historically incorrect. Firearms in general only came to be the dominant infantry weapon of the armies of europe and other parts of the world under strong european influence (north america, etc) from the very late 17th century onwards. And even then, most european combat doctrines relied heavily on a mixture of ranged and melee tactics until the mid-19th century.
@@meteormedia7021 The stopping power of old firearms was immense but melee stuck around for so long because reloading of the said firearms was still such a slow hassle. A cavalry rush with sabers into a middle of an unprepared group who were fiddling with their empty guns would give them a bad day. But guns did become the main weapons after they became reliable and mass produceable enough and melee weapons became side arms for most armies. Even japanese, when Portugese introduced Arquebus/Matchlock to them during Japans civil war Samurai fell in love with them and soon Japan had more guns than most other countries did. It revolutionized the Japanese warfare.
21:02 the brain has left the chat
This was probably the most interesting show you've put on lads, well done.
Me as a child back in the 1990's: Why were "Rifle-men" in the age of Black-powder so lethal?"
Me as an adult watching this: Huh... thats why.. they were essentially using .40-.50 caliber super-sonic rounds to hit their targets....
for point of reference - many of the earliest guns put out similar damage to this, but they were somehow less lethal than crossbows of the day. old-fashioned weapons are pretty insane
@ talking about the ones first used over in China/Japan in the feudal era?
Think that is because they fired larger rounds at slower speeds than musketeers/rifles later did due to them being more similar to small cannons than high-pressure muskets/rifles.
Oh man a new Gun Meme Review and now this!! I feel like I just got a full sized candy bar in my bag
The time for the bullet to leave the flintlock rifle after hammer drop is roughly .18 seconds. The average reaction time of F1 drivers is around .2 seconds. So hypothetically, even if they were standing pretty close, an F1 driver could probably dodge a flintlock as long as he reacted to the trigger pull lmao
9:54 he repeats himself in shock 1400 ft./s it perfect pitch and astonishment twice that was hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Our family in Maine has 3 1700s flintlocks that saw battle against the British and etc, I'm so stoked to get to see what they can do ,since we aren't allowed to touch the ones we have ,lol!!
Well you can still get working replicas, you don't even need a license to own these in a lot of places, even with strict gun control.
@deauthorsadeptus6920 thanks, I've seen the replicas fired from a distance at fairs, Minute Man demos, but had no idea of ballistic capabilities/force, these guys put on a very impressive demonstration. I'm in NH, open carry with few restrictions.
Hello fellow mainer! I grew up in western Maine Roxbury area. Lots of deer out there.
I said to myself "The amount of energy expended into the head itself is astounding" and then 15 seconds later the actual percentage was displayed; 88% is a crazy amount being used to explode the skull. Keep it coming!
I think you might be overfilling the pans a tad bit. Normally, if you prime the pan with the right amount of powder, the gun should fire a lot faster.
Flintlocks are finicky with their loads though. Some like lighter loads, some like heavier. My Hatfield American Long Rifle likes a 75 grain powder charge with a 12 grain primer charge. And it feels like it fires almost instantly.
ohhhhhhhhhh ! I love it !! the wonderful craftsmanship of how these things were created back then ! I built a handgun like this when I was 14, but with a percussion fuse !
19:53 At this exact time it looks like a laser gun. That trailing line of fire is so interesting.
This is the best video yet! Thank you! I have been shooting black powder guns, saw the bullets flattening out, and was trying to imagine what it looked like in ultra-slow-mo for years. I am so glad I asked you back when I discovered your channel. Please make these guns part of future tests.
Also the term flash in the pan. Not igniting the main load.
@brianweber196 also, lock, stock and barrel, refer to black powder firearms.
I've shot muzzleloaders for about 30 years now, in the old days, as in the 1600-1700 and even early 1800's, flintlocks used whatever powder you had. Whatever powder you had was what you were able to get, so if you had 2F you primed with it, same with 3F. I can tell you I've hunted with large bore muzzleloaders up to .58 caliber and they are extremely destructive on a whitetail deer. I've shot them out to 150-175 yards and the .58 Minie Ball I used, same as what was in the Civil War, weighs 425 grains, just shy of 1 ounce of lead, about the same as a shotgun slug. Also, just because it has rifling, doesn't mean it can't be a musket. It would be called a rifle musket, such as what you have seen in the Civil War. Also, the second trigger on the muzzleloader is a set trigger. When properly adjusted, the rear trigger when pulled gives the forward trigger a hair trigger, something like 3-4 pounds or even less. Pulling that rear trigger sure certainly does not LOCK the forward trigger. It does the exact opposite, it makes it a very light trigger.
When I was a kid I used to think that guns were just long range swords, poking holes in the target like a rapier or dagger, the only extra danger coming from a bullet potentially remaining lodged inside. Thanks to TH-cam channels like this, I have a much better understanding of the harm a bullet can inflict due to cavitation, especially one approaching or exceeding 2000fps when the damage from the temporary cavity starts becoming permanent, especially when the cavity is larger than the body part trying to contain it. That's when things tend to explode like melons, as the rifle-struck head clearly demonstrates.
0:11 subtle foreshadowing
edit: wow this is the most likes i have ever gotten
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@@Mr.TwoFaceGuyno👍
@@Thumbsupguy2.0 OK thumbs up guy👍
@@goose1114 👍
"Subtle"? 😂
Another minor gripe..."going off half cocked" does not refer to what is stated in the video. It refers to a setting between fully down and fully cocked, that disconnects the hammer (or "cock" in period terminology) from the trigger mechanism. On flintlocks this position is just far enough back to allow the frizzen to fully close over the pan, and is about as close to a mechanical safety as flintlocks got (yes I know, the "English Dog Lock". Trying to keep things simple and relatively short). Theoretically, a flintlock at half cock cannot fire, since the cock is disconnected from the sear and the half-cock notch *should* be deep enough to prevent it from snapping forward, even when struck or dropped. But a poorly made or worn mechanism could fire even in this position.
It's also a bit of a double entendre. Since the word had its current second meaning even then, the phrase could well refer to discharging a...er...load before the appropriate...ah...tool was fully...how can I put this...engaged. 🧐
Thanks for the knowledge !
I believe "flash in the pan" comes from these firearms. The term refers to something that makes a grand showing but ultimately fails to actually deliver on its promise, in the manner of a flintlock that gives a nice fireball from the primer charge but fails to actually fire a bullet.
So when I was doing some digging into the ballistics of my BP C&B Revolver I had, was a Pietta 1858 Rem, .44 with the shorter 5.5'' barrel, normal barrel length is 7.5 ish inches, but from what I could find with a max load of around 35-40 grains of FFF (used synthetic triple 7 triple F powder, so it ran a bit hotter then normal BP) it was comparable to 9 mm to 45 ACP in terms of ballistics going off of memory, the bullets I had where .454 ball around 120 grains, but was looking into getting conical rounds but never did and I ended up selling the pistol due to bills. Other BP revolvers with the longer barrels around the 7-8'' mark are around between 45 ACP and .357 Mag depending on round used. BP is nothing to scoff at, filled plenty of graves in their time and still are more then capable now. There was another channel who did ballistics gel testing with BP revolvers a 1860 Army and compared it to a 9mm and it was basically equal in terms of pen with the 9 mm having slightly better pen but not by much.
My ancestor a great great grandpa or another great in there lost his right arm just below the shoulder to a musket ball in the civil war he was from the south and was a spy for the north also ran slaves to freedom in the north. He recovered and continued to fight with just a big Bowie knife and a pistol. He had a reputation for being extremely vicious and violent on the battle field. Black powder based fire arms were notorious for removing arms and legs when they were in common use. And yep as described the pure lead rounds flatten out massively on impact but have tremendous energy behind them.
Okay for starters the term "Going off half cocked" did come from flintlocks, but came from worn tumblers or loose bridles, and not from using the second (set) trigger. The gun you have must be purpose built for a trigger to be the "safety" as almost all guns that have duel set triggers are just that, set triggers. One isn't the safety, one is a target trigger that makes the actual trigger a hair trigger, meaning it takes far far less for the gun to fire than if you didn't use the set trigger and used the regular trigger, which the trigger pull would be much more. I've never heard of a trigger being a "safety" in a duel trigger gun, especially one that looks like it's actually a duel set trigger setup. In fact @5:25 you can see the set trigger release when he pulls the actual trigger. Sounds like they bought the gun and the set trigger is set to the standard trigger pounds/Oz's. The screw in the middle should adjust it lighter, then you get less flinch as well.
I did IM series data testing as a High Speed Camera Technician for 4 years. You guys do almost what we did. If you guys want more accurate velocity data I would suggest buying a Data Acquisition system. I.E., "Genesis", and use it with velocity screens. Helps a ton =P.
This is a 50 caliber -- the British "Brown Bess" was 75 caliber (0.69" lead ball). This is going up from 180 grains to around 470 grains -- significantly more. The damage inflicted by these weapons was very often horrific in comparison to small arms wounds today. It was not unusual for limbs completely removed, bones shattered beyond the possibility of repair, internals absolutely devastated. Our founders ABSOLUTELY expected "the people" to keep and bear weapons of war.
Also, based upon your comments the "hangfire" you were experiencing was in having powder in the touch hole rather than allowing the flash to pass through. You were essentially creating a short fuse that had to burn to set the main charge off. Properly tuned, flintlocks can be almost as fast as percussion. The double trigger BTW is a set trigger. It will make the regular trigger a hair trigger when pulled. It's not a safety device.
i have a similar blackpowder flintlock rifle and i shoot 80 grains of FFFG and a much heavier conical style projectile. Not sure the exact velocity, but around 1200fps and yeah you definitely feel it in the shoulder. I really appreciate this video as I always assumed when I hunted with my rifle that it was only marginal for deer, but seeing these results gives me a renewed confidence in that rifles lethality.
20:21 these colonists aren't shi-BOOM 🤯 random British officer during American revolutionary war
I've been insecure about my burn injuries and bullet wound. Thank you for rocking your scars it makes me feel more normal.
I'm honestly very surprised by the results! Sure I knew it'd be lethal. That's a given. But I wasn't expecting such amazing expansion and damage! Very impressive 👏
20:44 Lincoln vs JFK
NAAAAH 😭🙏🏻
Flintlock tip... Use 1/2 the amount of FFFF powder for faster ignition. Most people use far too much priming powder.
People assume black powder weapons are far less powerful than modern weapons, but you would be shocked how much more power they have. I once shot a 5 inch diameter tree limb with a 30.06 and then shot it with A 45 caliber black powder. The 30.06. Left a small hole and the black powder rifle removed half the backside of the limb!
Yup up until smokeless powder was invented they were basically shooting smaller diameter shotgun slugs. I was not surprised at all by that 1400fps.
3:45 when the merchant states I haven't the funds for my parcel
"We know what's gonna happen to a head. What are we learning?" That exchange really made me laugh!
I am subscribed to ballistic high speed but not Brandon… your videos, your slo mo, your editing is just perfect!
This was so cool. I would love to watch you guys shoot rare rounds to see their effectiveness. Like how you did with tungsten but more
Id be interested in seeing another episode of this, maybe 4th of July with the larger caliber .75 Brown Bess or .58 caliber pistols
This was a lot of fun, dudes! Thanks for "showing your work" too that was my favorite part.
1:09 no, Abraham!! BEHIND YOU!!!
GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT
That was amazing!!! I have never seen as much destructive power unleashed on a gel block. Way more than even some powerful rounds over on Taofledermaus or Kentucky Ballistics' big guns.
And it's far from being perfect. You can see that the ball is very loose in there, so a lot of energy is dumped in the air before bullet even leaves the barrel.
@@deauthorsadeptus6920 If you're talking about in the barrel, the ball isn't loose at all. In fact, the combined diameter for the ball and the patch is greater than the diameter of the bore, if loaded correctly. The reason that gases come out of the muzzle before the bullet exits is because it's forcing itself around and past the patch, because the ball cannot accelerate fast enough -- it has too much mass. If you have a chance, look at a fired patch, and you will see where the gases have forced themselves past the patch and cut it. This is called "gas cutting," and if severe enough, especially in guns that fire an unjacketed lead bullet, it can deform it and adversely affect accuracy.
The time from when you pull the trigger to when the main charge goes off is called "lock time."
Here in Louisiana, there is a seperate "Black Powder" deer season, where that is all you can use to take whitetail deer. MANY deer are taken every year with them. They are surprisingly effective..
every state has a black powder season.
Also super dumb, why use a less effective weapon that does not allow for follow up shots in the case that the animal either moves, or the shooter simply does not hit the exact spot they aimed for? I'm all for hunting, I'm not against hunting regardless of it it is rifles, bow&arrow or muzzleloader(or even knife hunting pigs as is a thing in some states), but I don't see the reason behind using inferior weapons to hunt when there are better alternatives.
If people want to do it, go for it, I'm just saying that there are better ethical ways of doing it(semi auto rifles, or even bolt action).
@Kampos94 So are you saying that bow and arrow, and knife hunting is ok, even though they are inferior to black powder firearms, but black powder guns are not OK cause they are inferior to modern firearms?
@@Kampos94 Some people like the challenge. I've also found that people who hunt with black powder are generally more accurate marksmen. Also, archery and black powder hunting is just as ethical as modern rifle hunting.
@@DiscipleoftheKingofKings Since I don't live in every other state, I only knew for certain about the one I DO live in.
The patched round ball out of a black powder gun is a formidable weapon. They are very effective in taking deer-sized animals and larger, when shot at the right place.
16:59 is pretty much one of the coolest shots I've ever seen anywhere
Turns out they're still guns, who would've thought? Lmao
I honestly never could of guessed that
Might be slower to reload and not as reliable but still a gun
Actually black powder like muzzle loaders and flint lock aren’t classified as guns. You can buy them online and have them shipped to you
@joshcaron7478 aren't classified as "firearms" legally, they're still "guns", which doesn't have a legal definition. Get your "ackshually 🤓" out of here
@ I mean by the law they aren’t classified as a firearm but it indeed is a firearm lol
And this is why civil war was so deadly look at what those rounds do
19:22 I legitimately thought he shot a shotgun at it. I was NOT expecting that much explosive power from the rifle at all
You have to figure, a shotgun throws a 1-oz slug and it's not moving very fast. This is slower, and may not be as heavy, but it's still heavier than most modern cartridges.
It's honestly just cool to see the guns go off. These were so innovative for their day
Not sure if someone has posted this already, as there are a lot of posts, but if not, here goes. When I worked in the weapons testing field some time ago, the term used, which covered the time period from the when the firing signal was outputted (for you firing impetus) to when the shot (projectile) exited, was known as the "Firing interval".
For me this was normally the electrical firing signal output from a remote or other type of firing unit until shot exited from the muzzle. For your black powder firearms, it would probably be classed as the impact of the flint on the frizzen, or for the 500 S&W Magnum pistol, from when the firing pin impacts with the outer surface of the primer. In both cases from this point until the shot exits.
If you are interested in old black powder firearm ballistics, try the 2010 paper titled 'Ballistics of 17th Century Muskets'. The ballistics of these firearms is actually quite surprising!
Anyway keep up the good work!
PS If only I had some of your camera kit when I was previously doing my old job, which covered instrumentation, high speed photography, and flash radiography.
20:07 UNSC Marines when they first encountered the covenant.
Ah finally a halo fan
How are you man
You guys do a great job with the sfx.
Gav from SlowMo Guys made a video about how most high speed cameras don’t capture audio, and even if they did, the sounds would not be anywhere near as interesting.
I actually like this better then your modern firearms videos.
Probably the most satisfying video to watch!!
Yeah I seen Grand thumb had done how deadly these old black powder muskets are
and the ball flattened out almost a 50-cent piece ,
I don't remember what caliber they were using but that would take your damn arm off
Its like shooting a shotgun slug at somebody.
Crazy damage, that's why they can take down buffalo and all kinds of crazy animals with black powder even if it didn't go that deep it was just such a massive wound zero chance of survival.
On the 50 caliber rifle with dual triggers, one trigger is usually the "set" trigger that makes the main trigger easier to pull and is not a "safety" trigger. Cocking the hammer to half cock is the "safe/priming" position. Most black powder firearms are designed so that the trigger cannot be released until fully cocked. This is done by a deep notch cut in the hammer that traps the trigger. That said, older guns that have worn internals can slip past the notch allowing the gun to go off "half cocked". Another situation that might be a "going off half cocked" situation: As the shooter pulls the hammer rearward to the full cock position, thus disengaging the lock work from the safety slot in the hammer, they lose grip on the hammer and it snaps forward to strike the frizzen and ignite the charge.
Just gonna say, "Set Trigger", im sure others have already explained this. I have a very similar Hawken .50 cal, that is cap fired, if you'd like to see if there is any difference hit me up
The sheer number of whitetail that have been taken by myself, my brothers and my cousins with almost the exact same rifles of staggering. 50 years this year of deer hunting with a muzzle loader.
The rifle is more of an energy dump than most modern ammo.😮
Tests like these make me respect the weapons of the past so much more. They were no joke.
Technically I was subscribed to y'all first, but realized that within the last minute I have subscribed to both you and Herrera.
Big ol' clump o' lead never fails to deliver. Truly timeless.
Remember, felons can own black powder firearms in most states, they don't require an FFL, and you won't run afoul of most, if any, firearms laws.
I don't think felons care about laws
Any gun made before 1898 do not have to be registered with the ATF.
High power air rifles with heavy hollow point slugs would be awsome.
Collaborate with Edgunleshy for some real slow mo on squirrels and chipmunks!
In historical accounts men lost limbs from round balls in battle. It will turn a deer’s insides to jelly
They usually lost limbs because they were chopped off by the doctor.
@ yes because bones were shattered so bad . The medical records talk of totality splintered thigh and arm bones.
@@henryquackenbush8226some of them also lost their limbs to cannon balls
They lost limbs because that was the medical science of the time period.
Of the animals I've taken with my rifle with patched round balls, the wounds through the thoracic cavity weren't anything really special. 50cal hole in, inch hole out, around an inch and a quarter wound channel diameter.
@ but shoot a leg or hip bone that’s were shit sprinters. Also some of old lead balls I’ve found did seen softer than ones today . You could bite one flat
Ill never not be amazed by the beauty of fluid dynamics under high speed.
My god! Never would have imagined that sort of damage from black powder weapons! Amazing! 😮
I was always taught that that second trigger was a “set trigger” that once fully cocked and pulled fully, would basically allow the front trigger to act like a hair trigger. Can someone help educate me?
They are so use to the idea of a safety that they pretty much assumed there. No pre-smokeless powder weapon was designed with one.
@@leechowning8728 to quote my old RDC (Navy for DI) safety = keeping your boogerhook off of the trigger.
Hi there! Owner of the Flintlock rifle they used in this video.
Looks like something got mistranslated along the way. You are correct in that the back trigger typically is a set trigger, which turns the pull into a hair-trigger pull.
This is a kit built gun with a wildly sensitive front trigger. The back trigger in this specific firearm puts a safe amount of tension on the trigger and hammer. I’ve never disassembled the trigger on this gun to see what was causing this issue, as the gun has worked well enough for my purposes as long as I set the back trigger for safety.
So for 99.9% of flintlock rifles out there, the back trigger IS a set-hair trigger. For this particular flintlock rifle, the back trigger IS a safety trigger. Kit-made guns can have some quirks.
@@dbmwray That clarifies a lot, heck I just finished a bp rifle myself. It was a fun experience. Though I went with blackening my brass and going blond for my wood.
lol he said 'ramrod'
@@FUNKER530 hehe ramrod
Uhhuhuhuhuh, uhhuhhuhuhh, that was cool.
Say it say car ramrod
20:29 How it feels to chew Five Gum
I like slow motion firearm videos, so thanks.
Also, I did not read all the many comments, so maybe this is addressed already, but I offer these anyway.
Yes, more "F's" is finer. The first er the powder the more surface area to volume, so finer powder burns faster. Thus FFFFg for prime burns fast, to get the ignition process going. Using FFFg or FFg slows the burn rate, which affects chamber pressure and projectile velicity.
There have been extreme slow motion timed tests of flint locks looking at ignition speed. The prime does not need to be against the touch hole to ignite, it could be banked to the outside and the flame passing through the touch hole ignites the main load. That said, the testing showed that comparing banked away centered in pan and banked close, in all locks tested, banked close was always fastest.
Also tested was flash hole position, slightly above top edge of pan, even with top edge which is called the sunset position and low in pan. All positions ignited well and all with powder close were fastest, this even for the low hole where banked close covered the touch hole.
Thus many of the commonly professed "facts" were proven wrong by the high speed testing. You van find this if you search the National Muzzle loading rifle association web site.
Lastly, the two triggers on the rifle are a set and main trigger. Gun can be fired with a heavier trigger pull using main trigger only, or if the set trigger is pulled first only a light touch on the main will fire the gun. Nice for precise target work.
Thanks again for the videos.
I like the way we can see the shadow of the sound wave as the ball traversed the white, graduated background. The speed of the ball could be estimated by measuring the angle of the sound wave and doing the appropriate calculation.
When it's a double set trigger, the rear one is NOT the safety. Neither is the front one.
4:45 what in the hell are you talking about!
Should do a comparion between regular musketballs and Minié balls.
Yes please
Moving from Colorado to Fort Wayne this week, it's nice to know there are some folks like you there, been nervous about the move
As always a great video! One of the best on TH-cam!