For those keep saying ABS is no good, they obviously haven't been braking in an emergency situation. I was near a intersection once and the light was green. Traveling on around 70mph, a SUV ran the red light and hit right on a compact car. I was just about 10-20yards behind and the debris are everywhere. I got to hard brake, and ABS probably saved me from locking my front wheel and flip over.
Howard Ho Obviously haven't tried emergency braking? Speak for yourself mate. It only takes a handful of emergency braking tests on your own time down an empty street and you will learn the exact point at which your tyres begin to lock and you can achieve the exact same braking distance as a bike with ABS. ABS might be better if someone has never tried an emergency brake before, but if they ride on the road without being able to competently operate their vehicle and knowing its limits then they kinda deserve whatever happens to them...
Fuck off google So you're expecting people to find an empty road to practice emergency braking? Here's the problem with that...they might do it wrong and crash their bike....maybe lose a limb in the process. I get what you're saying, to a certain extent, but I don't think people 'deserve' what happens unless they're those dickheads who speed carelessly through pedestrian areas. I've never had ABS on a bike but I still welcome the idea, especially for braking on small gravel / sand.
djwinger2003 Don't know where you got your license, but in the Netherlands it's a mandatory skill. You need to do a exam involving 'bike skills'. Learning how to do an emergency stop is mandatory. So you should know how to brake hard.
***** My point was that he was telling people to find an empty street to practice it. Most likely in your case you had a trainer to instruct you how to do it properly and safely.
***** Learning how to emergency brake on a practice course or in an empty parking lot is a lot different than riding on dangerous rounds (particularly here in America), where someone can cut in front of you in an instant. I doubt a skill, practiced a few times in a controlled setting, on a slow bike (in most courses they are), is going to compensate for such an exponentially more dangerous experience; but, I digress. Irregardless, in Europe, bikes from 125cc and up will have mandatory ABS systems. Of course, people are clamoring they don't want no stinkin ABS, and that it's intrusive. Not sure why really. It's like saying I don't desire seatbelts or traction control on new cars.
Also, let us not forget that this brake test was not a "panic stop." It was a brake test done at known speeds and a known braking marker on people who set out knowing what they would be encountering. A different scenario to a braking situation where you have to make a panic, split second decision that may compromise your ability to be smooth and progressive with the brake lever. If there was improvement in braking distances when they KNEW what they were about to hit, it would be a fair assumption that such an improvement would carry further during an unexpected situation. I think some of you are seriously overstating your abilities, and have absolutely no idea what your consistent stopping distances are or how close they are to what the bikes can actually achieve.
Exactly. When you know the conditions well and are prepared ABS and non ABS will be around the same. But even here with a rider who tests for a living and was prepared ABS still performed the best, about 10%. In a real life situation ABS will be much better still compared to non ABS. It probably will not be remotely close. And that is why it is/will be mandatory.
The real takeaway is how much the professional rider improved with ABS and combined braking. He was far better than the others in the non-ABS and still improved by about 30% with it. For the normal road rider to improve so much shows how much safer it it, but as a test of how effective it is that pro-riders improvement was pretty spectacular.
What's with all these idiots coming into the comments and saying "Oh hur hur ABS is dangerous cause a rider won't learn to brake properly". Come on, get real. A rider can still learn to brake properly even if they have ABS. You should not shun a safety technology because you think it'll make people lazy; the fault would lie with the rider, NOT the ABS. Besides, half a decade from now ABS will probably be standard on pretty much every new bike sold.
+Will Davis How many people do you think take the time to learn? You're right ABS is a great feature but the cold facts are that ABS TC and more tech are all sales tools to sell bigger bikes. Bigger bikes in the hands of dumber riders. ABS misconceptions are way to common. Too many people claiming ABS helps them brake faster when that is further from the truth.
Pugzilla69 Sure. Yes. We're however talking about general riding situations. We're also talking about the people who all assume ABS is faster in any case and careless braking is okay as long as you have ABS which is far from the case. If a rider is still cognizant of braking distance, keeping good visibility and not riding fast without being able to see everything clearly, that will make the difference. ABS can't be a miracle worker. It's the same reason insurance stopped giving discounts for people with TC and ABS because it was found that people with tech rode and drove like bigger idiots assuming they could take bigger risks. Now ABS and TC are standard in cars. It does reduce a lot of accidents from happening and in turn makes roads safer. However we still have very bad accidents when drivers fail to be cautious. Does the tech work? Yes. Do riders get better education or are they taught how to make the best use of their skill? Nope. You see all the same old crap about people claiming how ABS is faster than a human and that means skill development is pointless since the computer can do it faster.
vidurc ABS is faster than any human, even a Moto GP racer can't modulate brake pressure as exact as the latest ABS systems using physics equations. No human is capable of that level of precision, not even Rossi. The reason it's not allowed in racing is because it removes some of the skill element. Real life isn't like that however. If your streetbike has ABS, then hammering on the brakes is the best option. The ABS system will keep your tyres just short of locking, which will maximise your stopping distance. If it saves my life I don't give a shit a about my non-abs braking skills.
+Pugzilla69 And that attitude will get you killed. I never said a rider was faster than ABS. A rider does have the ability to prevent the use of ABS. That will save lives. Being aware of dangerous situations and staying out of it is what will save your life. Not giving a shit about your non ABS skill is exactly what makes you a dangerous rider.
The bikes really don't seem to enter at the same speed. The sound of the engines on the ABS bike that stopped real short seemed to begin slowing earlier than the non-abs bike that stopped in 59.
:@@themightydash1714 I pretty much agree. AND they didn't compile the results, as in speed/stopping distance, with/without ABS, and taking into consideration expert levels of riders.
Bill Banche, they all entered at an indicated 80MPH, and they ran a test with each rider in each mode. Each rider stopped faster on the ABS bike. How did you miss that? It was explicitly spelled out in the video.
Great Video. I rode a 2001 CBR600F4i and now a 2009 CBR600RR. Highly recommend ABS if you do a lot of commuting on both freeway and sidestreets. Especially in So. Cali, where there are a lot of drivers (cars, bikes, semi's, buses) on the streets no matter what day or what time. It does take away the gained riding experiences such as applying adequate brake pressure and having your wheels lock. So for new riders that have an abs bike, be careful riding your buddies gixxer, r1 or kawa.
finally a real ABS vs no ABS test where the non abs biker doesnt have training wheels put on his bike so that he can fully slam the brakes to astonishingly show how fast the bike would drop. no you actually compare braking distance how its supposed to be. thank you for that!
I can say the ABS on Honda are very very good. I have been lucky, I rode almost every single Honda with ABS vs non. The problem comes down to human ego..... The racer in me, (having raced almost all my life in some fashion) tells me that I don't need it, that I don't want a machine or computer telling me what it thinks I should do. Or controlling any aspect of my riding. My practical side, tells me that I should.... WAIT, WHO am I kidding, practical doesn't apply to me! hahaha. My ego always told me, NO. But at the factory I was asked to try ABS Goldwing when it first came out. I did, and to my surprise, it worked better than I could have imagined, when the CBR600RR ABS came out, I was dying to prove it was wrong, that I could beat it. Well, I lost a bet. The ABS Systems have only gotten better. So, I learned to appreciate what was provided in ways of safety. In a sportbike or superbike, it only makes sense to have a little cushion in the event of an emergency, especially for the average rider! The Goldwing I rode is hands down, better off with it too. I couldn't stop that huge ass locomotive any faster than the ABS could. I ride a superbike on the street every once and awhile, its and ABS model. Guess I am practical after all. Damn, age does it to us all.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on ABS, but this is what I understand of the system. ABS basically *rapidly* applies and releases the break, rather than holding the break on, like most people would do, and this prevents the tires from skidding by maintaining better traction whilst braking. Safer. If you want to be all macho and say you don't like ABS, that's your decision, just don't refute the evidence that supports the improved safety of ABS.
If it makes you "feel".. like you're much safer having it,then it's more dangerous.Riding a bike,thinking you're "safe" because you have ABS... Will get you into trouble....!!!!! If you have it and ride like you don't have it... Then it's good to have .....just in case...
If you over-estimate your ability, ABS or not, you will get into trouble. If you over-estimate yourself, you are probably (slightly) safer having ABS. And footnote: you're never really "safe", just "safer".
+Jeremy Freemantle Yes every 60 milliseconds it only acts as a release. The actuation valve opens and closes so you're the one applying the brake while ABS releases pressure to prevent full lockup. It helps to the extent of a rider's ability. I've seen way too many people taking stupid risks because they have ABS or TC... Bad drivers or riders will still find a way to crash.
Awesome test! Although it was in a test track.. Can you imagine the difference it can make on a real road, where you can be surprised in the middle of a turn by another car, a dog.. etc.. Could be the difference not only in meters but kissing the tarmac or not.. very nice!
I've been teached to brake with both breaks, and for me it works perfectly. I have never come into wheel lock. Breaking bye downshifting is what I do, if I want to slowely break. For emergeny brakes I use both brakes and pull the clutch, because I dont want the engine to break at the same time as my rear break. On the other hand engine break is not hard enough, if you dont downshift constantly, which I wont do in a emergency situation. Pulling the clutch and controlling the brakes is the deal.
have ridden both abs and non abs bikes and must admit that abs is a safety feature but i have more feel of what the front tyre is doing on the non abs bike.having been riding bikes for over 30years i do prefer the feel i get from the non abs brakes,thats why i traded in my last bike,honda cb1000r abs for a suzuki gsxr750,non abs.although i now only ride in dry conditions(as i have the choice).once you have the suspension set to the way you ride, i feel that the non abs,for the experienced rider is probably the prefered choice.(in my opinion)
+Trevor Paradise I'm riding a Honda cbrrr1000 have been riding 42yrs, I hear you but I also owned a 2005 cbrrr1000 with no abs...I had one experience I know I would have dropped or rolled my 2005 on the highway..now that I used to the abs Ill swear by it...opions and are assholes everyone has one...lol
TC actually works the same way as ABS, but reversed. It uses the same circuits, computer and counters. The only difference is that ABS is for braking, and TC is for acceleration.
Abs may increase stopping distance in straight line. It is not designed to stop you quicker. A more suitable test would be to brake hard and steer( hazard avoidance) on a wet surface see who falls off and who stays put.
i just don't understand people who say: "ABS is so stupid, i'll never use this shit, blah blah blah". I understand the fact that if you're a pro you wanna fell the bike 100%, but you'll have to do it on the track not on the highway. it's like: "i have a muscle car, but hey, i don't need control traction, after all, i'm fucking pro". so arrogant.
kim manfré pastro If you are a pro you dont really need a traction control, on my car i always turn it off because i helps me to launch the car faster, but thanks i cant turn abs off easily...
Kim Pastro It's a masculinity thing, as usual. Most anti-ABS people don't even know how it works and have likely never been a situation where the wheels lock up and they lose traction.
As a novice rider on naked bike I can a test that ABS is really helpful and can be a life saver. But I do have to agree with older folks that abs alone won't save your ass. Having real skills and learning how to be able to swerve will because when caggers will cut us it will be on the very last second! And not hitting them will be better than hitting them fast (no abs) or hitting them slower (abs). Unfortunately that's our reality. My bike as independent abs and switchable off & I think all bike should have it like that.
+DinhoPilot Bingo! ABS in general is great but you know whats better? Being aware of your surroundings. I've been able to avoid more accidents by looking at what's coming at me than having ABS to save me once a mistake was made. Ironically enough I've locked up my brake at lower speeds and never at anything over 40mph... Most think ABS can help keep them on the bike if they hit ice or oil or whatever on the road. That is a really big speculation.
Yes! For two reasons: 1. No more drive delivered to the rear wheel. 2. Prevent the engine from stalling (stalling the engine kills the ABS) Also, stalling the engine prevents a quick getaway should the situation call for it.
This video is great. The only thing I think could be better is the fact that it seems that the several riders apparently reach the mark at different speeds, and some brake at the line while others apparently brake later, but I'm not sure... But great video nonetheless. I wish I could mount ABS on my 08 fireblade but I've been told it's not possible.
Amazing how many guys: a) think they're better than the machine when even the best rider here (who is way better than most of us commentors) stopped sooner with ABS b) stand in the face of irrefutable video evidence and look for minor flaws in the method.
I have the C-ABS version and I've completed just over 4400 miles on it in 4 months. The ABS system is amazing. Riding in the wet and slimy british winters are no problems when hard braking. In fact I can just now pull and forget about lock ups completely. Don't even need to use rear brake at all in the wet as the system will add rear brake for you. I highly recommend the ABS bike.
Did not except that. My expierience is that abs takes longer to stand still. Respect ✊ for that test guys! ...and i think i am tough cause i test ride my blade (no abs and bramd new tires) in combareble weather in swiss midlands. (I was buying it, it‘s a great bike, with or without abs )☺️. Chapeau, like the french man would say. 👍🏻
With 16,000 miles on my car, panic braking became natural to me, as deer jump in the road constantly. The transition from cage to bike was difficult, but 1,200 miles on my bike later, riding my motorcycle has become second nature, and I now swerve to avoid obstacles instead of panic braking. I know how to judge what kind of people are going to not see me, and I slow down and change lanes beforehand. Don't worry. I'm a much safer rider than I was when I wrote that comment. Shiny side up.
Yes that is true. And what about the ZX 10 R :D She's beautiful. By the way, even if we won't be agree, I did enjoy this rewarding discussion. Take care on the road mate.
Good comparison however some constructive comments if I may. I'd suggest you use a GPS based system, so the measurement is made from when the lever is applied, not when you "judge" you are near the "white line" or witches hat. Dare I say - borrow a system from the 4 wheel guys and you'll see what I mean to obtain very accurate figures. Great work MCN - please keep all videos coming!
I don't know much about it. but I myself avoided an abs version for my bike Apache. later on all that I understood about it is that it helps you in a condition when you are not hundred percent active as usual. for example I bring my vehicle (Tvs Apache 160 cc) from 112 kmph to 0 kmph in less than 3 seconds even without skidding the vehicle but the moment when I am not that much attentive or the moment a sudden situation arises and I loses my heart or confidence, it (abs) has the ability to do the same for me as at that moment because in such cases, one have balance on his body but not on mind. so one is capable enough to apply brakes with full pressure but not able to do it sensible. in that condition abs works like an angel to you.
Does anybody here understand how abs works.... it does nothing at all nothing. It only activates when rotational speed of 1 tire changes from another while braking meaning locked wheel skidding and then it releases the fluid pressure to stop the skid and unlock the wheel minimally the continue rotating giving the bike tracking then reapplying pressure to stop the bike. Works the same in cars. With the exact same conditions a person cannot apply and release brake pressure as fast to retain traction. It's not possible for your brain to even calculate that fast by feel or experience. It is also meant as a BACK UP to when you screw up and you know when it is activated by the pressure changes in your brake lever backing on and off. If you have no understanding on how technology works then please don't confuse others with ignorant comments. Abs is an advancement like many other things it moves us forward if you don't like it don't use technology but don't fool others with your ignorance... sorry for the rant just seeing some of these comments makes my stomach turn.
nick paskal I find it's mostly kids/young adults, with probably a year of riding experience (there are exceptions), and masculinity issues, making these ABS claims. "I'm a man, I don't need no stinkin ABS! I know how to remain calm when that pick-up truck pulls out in front me, and I have a split-second to react!" Then it happens, they crash, and either become anti-motorcycle advocates, or sit on youtube watching vids of others riding.
+PerryR1985 You realize that if a truck pulls out in front of you ABS will increase your braking distance. You will end up in the back of that truck. Braking drills are the only thing that will keep you safe at the end of the day. Trust yourself not the tech. If you start living off the tech you're going to find yourself failing and that will be costly
Not entirely sure I fully understand, but how does ABS increase braking distance? All it does is prevent the rear tire from locking up. If you're referencing to the testing, it concerns full reliance on squeezing the brakes hard vs highly trained braking. In an empty parking lot/course, Even then, the ABS resulted in generally more safe results. Controlled conditions do not = real road conditions. You can practice for years, and I guarantee that in most instances, you won't be prepared for a truck pulling out. I must say, I don't understand this anti-abs crusade. Why is something that clearly enhances safety frowned upon?
PerryR1985 How do you prevent lock up? It releases braking pressure a certain number of times a second. Depending on how aggressive the system is, it can nullify your braking input in a number of situations. If you do not have braking pressure there is nothing slowing you down anymore. Thus the increased braking distance. There's a reason why most enduro and track bikes come with the option to turn them off. "You can practice for years, and I guarantee that in most instances," That statement makes me question if you ride at all. There are plenty of us who have been in bad situations and brought our vehicles to a halt just fine even with slight lockup. The claim that practice cannot save you from lock up is the problem ABS brings to the table. The people who believe that ABS is some miracle working system that prevents crashes in every situation are the problem. I'm not anti ABS, however I am against the belief that a person is completely incapable of being able to stop their vehicle in an emergency. It is a safety net for skilled riders and a crutch for bad ones. Look at the misinformation in the comments alone. People genuinely believe that ABS is a replacement for skill.
One think I would like to see is at least offering it as an option in smaller cc bikes. Learner riders are asking for it more than experienced guys, Bosche MSC would be awesome aftermarket option, anyyone know if you can get it put on a gsxr750?
Yes, but because it prevents the wheel from blocking braking distance became shorter. One thing i don't like here that's the idea was wrong, they should do it for rear brakes, so when you push the pedal wheel instead of blocking will spin and brake.
along with ABS if your learn to execute perfect engine braking it increases the chance to avoid crashes and better than just relying on just ABS.you guys should have done engine braking & ABS test and only ABS test how much difference would it make
this were pro rider or advance rider and they cant beat an abs bike in a testing situation not factoring panic brake you that will occur in real life and newer bike that come with an even more advance Bosch abs basically brakes better then pretty much any rider on non abs bike could why wouldn't you want that kind of level of certainty and performance that wont be effected by the rider that may lock up the brake when they panic
I recently bought a 2015 suzuki dr200 dual sport and I was flying down our mountain road doing 55-60 and in a tight turn with ice, well last second almost through the turn a deer starts freaking walking infront of me lol I used the rear brake over the front and I dont think it has abs but I skid for not even a second, lessened up on my footing and reapplied slowly and I slowed down from 55 at that point to 0mph in less than 120ft. so far its been a great learners bike and I could see it even being a highway bike after its broke in and I swap the sprocket for a bigger one
What you just described sounds exactly like the MSF course, which is available here in the states as well as the DMV test. The MSF course is a 30-40 hour course, 10 in class, the rest on the course. It's basically exactly what you just described. It costs around $100 USD and is pretty difficult to pass. If you pass, and can prove that you passed it, then the DMV waives the final test and just gives you your license.
@6:00 he is wrong about braking all in. ABS is no braking assistance. It only prevents a wheel from blocking. ☝🏿🧐 You should always increase the braking pressure constantly whether it is an ABS or a non-ABS bike. If you initiate the brake too hard, the ABS will kick in and reducing the deceleration.
I've been taught* to brake with both brakes*, and for me it works perfectly. I have never had a wheel lock*. I use downshifting to brake slowly*** For emergency* brakes I use both and pull the clutch, because I don't* want the engine to brake* at the same time as my rear brake. Engine brake* is not hard enough if you don't* downshift constantly, which I wont do in an* emergency situation**. Pulling the clutch and controlling the brakes is the deal. FTFY
For some reference: I was driving an indicated 99 km/h when I got flashed. The end result was a true speed of 90 km/h after a tolerance of 3 km/h. So my bike was reading about 6 km/h too fast. And that will only increase at 80 mp/h so I'd say it's roughly accurate, maxbe a bit too high.
And yes it will make you stop faster if your front tire locks your not stopping your sliding and from those of us that actually ride know front locked at any decent speed means sliding not stopping so in turn not locking front tire (which is the most effective brake) means stopping, more stopping power means faster stopping. Releasing locked tire and reapplying brake pressure tens of times per second right after tire is unlocked is stopping faster. It has been proven that a tire that is applying rotational resistance (braking) slows a vehicle much faster than a vehicle which has locked tires up and is just sliding. The fact that you can steer to avoid object with abs is a bonus to not having locked tires that in turn means no control at all of your vehicle. If you own a car then this will make sense- Chances are your car has abs. Have you ever braked hard and heard a noise like a drum beating quickly and felt your brake pedal vibrate quickly? That was your abs working. Do you "activate" your abs every time you brake? (Have a vibrating pedal?) More than likely you rarely if ever have it happen. Other wise when you brake does it feel like you have given away "FEEL" of your brake pedal when the pedal is not vibrating. Are you unable to feel the conditions of the road through your brake pedal? I don't think so you should be able to feel everything and Guage the traction of the road with it. You lose nothing but gain a backup to short falling of being human Many compare to motogp and say we'll they dot use it!!! Well they are on a CLEAN SWEPT NO SAND SPOTS BROKEN GLASS OIL FREE NO CAGERS AROUND NO WORRIES ABOUT WHAT'S BEHIND THE NEXT BEND WITH SLICKS ON TRACK YES TRACK NOT STREET WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE AS UNCERTAINTIES at every corner and if a rider can ride absent minded because of abs he should not ride or drive a car as he is an idiot who will kill himself or others. But I guess there are some of your who can see the future while riding a bike and are able to spot each and every possible le part of the road and determine appropriate brake pressures cause your a fuckin wizard
in an emergency situation you pull the clutch because you dont want your brakes to have the added load of the engine's momentum..because the brakes slow down faster than the sole engine braking they need to slow down the engine too. engine braking is only useful in everyday commuting to save gas. hope that helped
@Koener the only thing that can stop you from turning the bike while the ABS is activated is the grip of the asphalt. If it has a high grip then it may be very hard because of the force of the braking itself against your capacity to turn, but if it's wet for example the bike won't stop abruptly even with the ABS and you can turn it to avoid crashing because the wheels are not locked
I have a bike without ABS and have slid a few times due to hard braking to avoid assholes mentioned in the situations (running red lights, illegal side lane turning into main road without giving way to main road users etc.). I have to say, my intermittent braking skills are now way better due to aforementioned near-misses, but I think ABS would help a lot too.
@TheM104, don't confuse being full on the brakes and turn to dodge an obstacle with applying full brakes while in the middle of a turn ;) I was referring to the first.
I know this is an old thread but I searched high and low for my non abs 2012 Fireblade, I don’t need abs. My bike is strictly for dry sunny days and pleasure, I don’t even commute on it. The reason I wanted a non abs is firstly it weighs a ton, second there have been technical problems with the system, and thirdly in my opinion you’d have to be riding like a lunatic to lock the front end of any modern superbike up in the dry. Based on all the above I was delighted to find my mint, low mileage, non abs model last March for roughly £500 less than the equivalent abs equipped model.
First thing everyone needs to know, previous to understand how abs works, is when abs works, not in every brake you do, but just in slippery situations, when a non abs bike doesn't save you.
OhFookinELL Because the bikes geometry changes based on which brake your are applying. If you are going around a corner and overcook it, you need to know exactly what your bike is going to do and what you're going to feel when you apply the brakes. In bikes where the ABS applies a portion of braking to both wheels (and I don't believe all bikes these days do this, but I could be wrong), you're going to hit the brakes expecting the bike to behave one way, but have something slightly different occur, which in a lot of peoples opinion is more dangerous than not having ABS. On top of that, learner riders won't learn to emergency brake properly without developing a dependency on simply clamping the brakes as hard as they can every time they need to stop. And on some bikes ABS adds $1000, which is a deal breaker for some people.
+OhFookinELL Mainly because it took longer for ABS to mature on motorcycles. Cars have 4 wheels, which means redundancy, which means it's easier to come up with an ABS system that works properly. Bikes have only two wheels, only one drive wheel, and have to not be disastrous when the ABS engages during a lean. But ABS is now mature and should be standard on all non-dirt bikes. It's really only price competition that keeps it from being that way, now. ABS adds $500 or more to a bike, and that's a good 10% or more of a low-end bike. IMHO, it's a no-brainer because ABS saving you from even one 5mph accident will easily save you more money than it costs.
+Fuck off google pretty sure that's not the case. If you're in a situation where your ABS wouldn't lock up then it behaves just like any other brake. Anyone who thinks ABS somehow changes the feel of the bike to the point where they no longer have brake control while cornering, etc, probably hasn't used ABS.
+Will Davis fuck dude you make good true comments...what do you or did you ride..not sure if you saw my first post I ride a 2012 Honda cbr rr 1000 had a 2005 cbr rr1000 no abs.. I swear by it now, I have practiced in the rain in parking lots and had a highway sudden hard brake...if I was on my 2005 the braking results would have been way different...
@a6km pretty certain even if you engage abs, if you remove your brake application at the lever, braking would stop. Also the ABS can be turned off if you like. It will always be engaged when you turn the bike on initially. I don't have this bike, but it's what I'm wanting once I can afford it.
Only thing I'd change is 'you don't know its ABS', nice that it's smooth and not juddery but would be good to have a warning light or something for people learning to brake.
@djolepowertube he just said that there is no physical connection between the brake lever and the oil/piston, its all electronic. but considering car abs almost never fail, i would assume the same for bikes.
@markjrobbins ... Anyway, it's still true that you can apply full brakes on event of a surprise and turn to avoid it, even if you have to relief the brakes momentarily to muscle the bike around. Not so without abs. I'm glad that we agree that this system is the way to go. If you have any confirmation or if you are really sure about that lateral traction impossibility in this ABS, please tell me. Thanks!
I won't dispute that some riders will be able in a track for example and within reasonable stress conditions to beat the abs system, but the problem is, even if you have that amazing braking capability, it is very difficult for you to use it in a scenario where things go from perfectly safe to completely out of control in a split of a second, or in a wet road. Besides, Abs allows you to turn the bike while you're full on the brakes. And most important: even these excellent riders make mistakes.
Well, BKstrained is right. Engine braking is more efficient, try getting your bike and ride with a high rev (like when the bike is "screaming" for a shift up), then you stop accelerating. What do you experience? the bike slows down until it reachs a rotation that it was designed to roll, that why you keep downshifting if you are very fast, to make the engine work in a high rotation and helping you to slow down your bike. PS: If any word is wrong or out of context, sorry my english isnt perfect.
@Kendoka05 WITH ABS however, they can just slam the brakes without fear of crashing the bike due to locks. Also, a sliding, blocked wheel is less effective at reducing the speed than a still rolling one.
@TheM104 I actually didn't imply you could apply full brakes in the middle of a turn, but now that you mention that. Which turn? At what speed? Don't forget that when you apply strong braking in a turn, even if the ABS does it's job, you're not only braking but also disturbing the cornering stability and direction. But even in those situations, a rider using ABS will always have a better chance If, in any situation, ABS can't save the day, the possibility to do so without it is even less.. ;)
@markjrobbins if you have a point about the lateral traction but how do you know this wasn't taken into account when making this system. Remember that lateral traction loss also affects the wheel spin, which is how the system acts and it's probably enough for the system to block further braking. But that's in the event of someone on the worse case scenario, which is completely leaned over at a considerable speed (to be at the limit of lateral traction) and a surprise.
I've never heard of insurance companies going crazy over ABS. I'd like to see an article. To get a motorcycle endorsement in my state, you take a 25 question common sense knowledge assessment which you need to pass 20/25 of the questions to pass the test. Then you hold a learner's permit for two months (60 days) from the date you took the common sense assessment. After you've held it for 2 months, you take a motorcycle skills test on the track. If you pass that one, you get your license.
Even Bosch do not recommend whacking ABS on full power. They suggest you apply the front brake gradually but quickly. This shifts your weight over the front wheel. If you just grab the lever straight away you don't shift your weight forward properly so the front wheel locks up more easily and you get less braking power.
That kinda defeats the purpose of the ABS system really lol. I thought you just grab a handful and the ABS system applies the brakes as quickly and as powerful as possible without locking the wheels......
That is a lie! Bosch clearly recommends to go hard on the brakes. You dont have to use it in a slow manner! Their system literally builds the pressure up slowly to let the weight shift forward. Please check what Dr. Fevzi Yildirim said about their ABS system! You are just making up facts.
Meters? Why would you need that? All the measurements they took were in meters, so comparison between them works just fine...and my country really only uses imperial (guess which one that is...) Interesting video...though I never ride in the damp/wet. I'm sure in panic situations it comes in handy.
Drunkun_Munky Not allowing the wheels to lock up means stopping sooner. Static friction of tyre is higher than dynamic one, so balancing on it's edge, which is what ABS does, is the most efficient way of braking. Plus you don't fall down and slide on your side :)
Michal Gloc Almost, someone did the testing and they found that the optimal braking force occurred when a tyre was rotating at 21% (or something very close to that) relative to the velocity that it was travelling. Although maybe that was for a Formula 1 car, which would be different to a bike. Eh I can't remember.
Fuck off google After watching this video I looked into scientific literature on the topic. There are some interesting reads tho mostly without showing their math and data, so not sure how believable it is. Anyway, consensus is that energy dissipation should happen in brake, and not in place of contact of tyre with road. So locking the wheel is definitely bad idea. I'm not sure where the 21% comes from, but there was some mention about wheel spin vs deforming and stretching of the tyre. Which means the inside of wheel spins a little less than outside diameter of tyre. That's quite small factor though. I happen to work for BMW so maybe I'll be able to reach and ask about this some guys from motorcycles division.
I may sound dumb in asking this but is breaking the same (handling wise) with ABS and without? As in, are there rear and front breaks the same way as in traditional bikes. I sold my motorcycle last year and eying motorcycles again so the ABS is new to me.
Good for you it saved your ass. The problem its, in the head of a lot of peoples abs mean safety and "i will not lock my wheels so its ok" and they ride stupidly while there are bad conditions Like i said when abs appeared on cars insurance companies went crazy because the number of crashs raised a lot. How many hours you have to learn to ride a bike before to pass the driving licence test ?
Much better than without ABS, since it tires would just lock up. Not exactly what you want in cornering. ABS only comes into play when your tires lock up.
at my MSF school they said when u do an ermergency brake u never pull the clutch in cause it cause the rear/front tire to lock up cause u will end up pulling the break too hard using the engine break with it will help break u faster and will not allow u to lock up as easliy as if u clutched in
are you still thinking same way as you did in 2009? do you still think that abs lowers the stopping distance? i don't think so. abs won't make you stop sooner. its just lets you stop without sliding too much front or rear of the bike.
A bike is very much the same. Engine braking becomes more and more useful the lower the gear you're in. In first gear, you basically don't need the front brake at all, because the engine brakes you so much. In second gear, it's still very useful, with a little tap needed every now and then, maybe in an emergency.
I have been in real emergency braking in a car and bike. With the car in ice (abs no good), in wet road, and full stops from highway speeds to almost zero because of someone thought that stopping in overtaking lane is o.k. It is statiscally proved that in emergency situations people either overbrake or underbrake. I can only recommend training, training and more training, experience without pratice is useless... You had survival reactions and you can learn to overcome those.
a very stupid question: once the brake by wire is engaged and for some reason i release the brake lever the system will stop and go to normal operation ? for example on a wet trackday i get scared and panic on the brakes then I slow down to a speed which im confident to take a corner the system will allow me to do that or do i have to make a full stop ?
Yeah, thats why we should use both for max efficiency. The brakes act on the wheel and have nothing (or almost nothing with the engine), so you can use only the brakes (with clucth on), you will be just fine, but for a better efficiency brake use both, engine braking and regular brake. About the example you gave, it depends on the rider, if you are a casual rider i think that only brakes will give better result, but for a pro its a different story.
Have you ridden a motorcycle? 1. Re-watch the video, he explains why it took the FIRST person 30 meters more to brake. 2. Get on a bike yourself get to cruising speed and let go of throttle without touching the clutch, notice how the bike looses speed very fast. 3. Now try pulling in the clutch and then let go of the throttle, notice the bike barely slows down 4. Do not pull clutch in during EMERGENCY braking. Pulling in the clutch disengages the engine and you loose A LOT of braking power.
Not when you pull the clutch in. It's when releasing the clutch too aggressively that you can lock the rear. You are essentially putting too many revs to the rear all of a sudden. A slipper clutch helps.
The abs story with the insurances company is old. You're young,and it was paper before Here to be presented to the driving exam you have to have the theorical exam first. It's about all the roads signs,rules etc... if you have less than five mistakes on 45 questions you are allowed to be presented to the two driving exams. The first is a draw on one of 6 driving skills slalom very low speed or high speed hrd braking after slalom etc... Then you have an exam on the road during half an hour...
5:00. cheats using engine braking. ( facepalm). STAY CONSITENT with your max speed until the precise moment of braking to confirm your results are legit.
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For those keep saying ABS is no good, they obviously haven't been braking in an emergency situation. I was near a intersection once and the light was green. Traveling on around 70mph, a SUV ran the red light and hit right on a compact car. I was just about 10-20yards behind and the debris are everywhere. I got to hard brake, and ABS probably saved me from locking my front wheel and flip over.
Howard Ho Obviously haven't tried emergency braking? Speak for yourself mate. It only takes a handful of emergency braking tests on your own time down an empty street and you will learn the exact point at which your tyres begin to lock and you can achieve the exact same braking distance as a bike with ABS. ABS might be better if someone has never tried an emergency brake before, but if they ride on the road without being able to competently operate their vehicle and knowing its limits then they kinda deserve whatever happens to them...
Fuck off google So you're expecting people to find an empty road to practice emergency braking? Here's the problem with that...they might do it wrong and crash their bike....maybe lose a limb in the process. I get what you're saying, to a certain extent, but I don't think people 'deserve' what happens unless they're those dickheads who speed carelessly through pedestrian areas. I've never had ABS on a bike but I still welcome the idea, especially for braking on small gravel / sand.
djwinger2003 Don't know where you got your license, but in the Netherlands it's a mandatory skill. You need to do a exam involving 'bike skills'. Learning how to do an emergency stop is mandatory. So you should know how to brake hard.
***** My point was that he was telling people to find an empty street to practice it. Most likely in your case you had a trainer to instruct you how to do it properly and safely.
*****
Learning how to emergency brake on a practice course or in an empty parking lot is a lot different than riding on dangerous rounds (particularly here in America), where someone can cut in front of you in an instant. I doubt a skill, practiced a few times in a controlled setting, on a slow bike (in most courses they are), is going to compensate for such an exponentially more dangerous experience; but, I digress.
Irregardless, in Europe, bikes from 125cc and up will have mandatory ABS systems. Of course, people are clamoring they don't want no stinkin ABS, and that it's intrusive. Not sure why really. It's like saying I don't desire seatbelts or traction control on new cars.
Also, let us not forget that this brake test was not a "panic stop." It was a brake test done at known speeds and a known braking marker on people who set out knowing what they would be encountering. A different scenario to a braking situation where you have to make a panic, split second decision that may compromise your ability to be smooth and progressive with the brake lever.
If there was improvement in braking distances when they KNEW what they were about to hit, it would be a fair assumption that such an improvement would carry further during an unexpected situation. I think some of you are seriously overstating your abilities, and have absolutely no idea what your consistent stopping distances are or how close they are to what the bikes can actually achieve.
Exactly.
When you know the conditions well and are prepared ABS and non ABS will be around the same. But even here with a rider who tests for a living and was prepared ABS still performed the best, about 10%.
In a real life situation ABS will be much better still compared to non ABS. It probably will not be remotely close.
And that is why it is/will be mandatory.
80mph:
Non ABS 1: 92 meters
Non ABS 2: 59 meters
Non ABS 3: 66 meters
ABS : 42 meters
The real takeaway is how much the professional rider improved with ABS and combined braking. He was far better than the others in the non-ABS and still improved by about 30% with it. For the normal road rider to improve so much shows how much safer it it, but as a test of how effective it is that pro-riders improvement was pretty spectacular.
What's with all these idiots coming into the comments and saying "Oh hur hur ABS is dangerous cause a rider won't learn to brake properly". Come on, get real. A rider can still learn to brake properly even if they have ABS. You should not shun a safety technology because you think it'll make people lazy; the fault would lie with the rider, NOT the ABS. Besides, half a decade from now ABS will probably be standard on pretty much every new bike sold.
+Will Davis How many people do you think take the time to learn? You're right ABS is a great feature but the cold facts are that ABS TC and more tech are all sales tools to sell bigger bikes. Bigger bikes in the hands of dumber riders. ABS misconceptions are way to common. Too many people claiming ABS helps them brake faster when that is further from the truth.
+vidurc
ABS does help you brake faster If you can avoid locking up the brakes in a panic situation, then it may well save your life.
Pugzilla69 Sure. Yes. We're however talking about general riding situations. We're also talking about the people who all assume ABS is faster in any case and careless braking is okay as long as you have ABS which is far from the case.
If a rider is still cognizant of braking distance, keeping good visibility and not riding fast without being able to see everything clearly, that will make the difference. ABS can't be a miracle worker. It's the same reason insurance stopped giving discounts for people with TC and ABS because it was found that people with tech rode and drove like bigger idiots assuming they could take bigger risks.
Now ABS and TC are standard in cars. It does reduce a lot of accidents from happening and in turn makes roads safer. However we still have very bad accidents when drivers fail to be cautious. Does the tech work? Yes. Do riders get better education or are they taught how to make the best use of their skill? Nope. You see all the same old crap about people claiming how ABS is faster than a human and that means skill development is pointless since the computer can do it faster.
vidurc
ABS is faster than any human, even a Moto GP racer can't modulate brake pressure as exact as the latest ABS systems using physics equations. No human is capable of that level of precision, not even Rossi.
The reason it's not allowed in racing is because it removes some of the skill element. Real life isn't like that however. If your streetbike has ABS, then hammering on the brakes is the best option. The ABS system will keep your tyres just short of locking, which will maximise your stopping distance. If it saves my life I don't give a shit a about my non-abs braking skills.
+Pugzilla69 And that attitude will get you killed. I never said a rider was faster than ABS. A rider does have the ability to prevent the use of ABS. That will save lives. Being aware of dangerous situations and staying out of it is what will save your life. Not giving a shit about your non ABS skill is exactly what makes you a dangerous rider.
The bikes really don't seem to enter at the same speed. The sound of the engines on the ABS bike that stopped real short seemed to begin slowing earlier than the non-abs bike that stopped in 59.
+David Crockett I thought the exact same thing, you can visually see that the bikes are not travelling at the same speed, test was a joke.
:@@themightydash1714 I pretty much agree. AND they didn't compile the results, as in speed/stopping distance, with/without ABS, and taking into consideration expert levels of riders.
i agree
Bill Banche, they all entered at an indicated 80MPH, and they ran a test with each rider in each mode. Each rider stopped faster on the ABS bike.
How did you miss that? It was explicitly spelled out in the video.
Great Video. I rode a 2001 CBR600F4i and now a 2009 CBR600RR. Highly recommend ABS if you do a lot of commuting on both freeway and sidestreets. Especially in So. Cali, where there are a lot of drivers (cars, bikes, semi's, buses) on the streets no matter what day or what time. It does take away the gained riding experiences such as applying adequate brake pressure and having your wheels lock. So for new riders that have an abs bike, be careful riding your buddies gixxer, r1 or kawa.
thank you for taking the time to share this. looking to get the 2011 fireblade later this month... WITH ABS!
I love the red white and blue paint job on that CBR, beautifull
ABS is must and very important...
No
finally a real ABS vs no ABS test where the non abs biker doesnt have training wheels put on his bike so that he can fully slam the brakes to astonishingly show how fast the bike would drop. no you actually compare braking distance how its supposed to be. thank you for that!
I can say the ABS on Honda are very very good. I have been lucky, I rode almost every single Honda with ABS vs non. The problem comes down to human ego..... The racer in me, (having raced almost all my life in some fashion) tells me that I don't need it, that I don't want a machine or computer telling me what it thinks I should do. Or controlling any aspect of my riding. My practical side, tells me that I should.... WAIT, WHO am I kidding, practical doesn't apply to me! hahaha. My ego always told me, NO. But at the factory I was asked to try ABS Goldwing when it first came out. I did, and to my surprise, it worked better than I could have imagined, when the CBR600RR ABS came out, I was dying to prove it was wrong, that I could beat it. Well, I lost a bet. The ABS Systems have only gotten better. So, I learned to appreciate what was provided in ways of safety. In a sportbike or superbike, it only makes sense to have a little cushion in the event of an emergency, especially for the average rider! The Goldwing I rode is hands down, better off with it too. I couldn't stop that huge ass locomotive any faster than the ABS could.
I ride a superbike on the street every once and awhile, its and ABS model. Guess I am practical after all. Damn, age does it to us all.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on ABS, but this is what I understand of the system. ABS basically *rapidly* applies and releases the break, rather than holding the break on, like most people would do, and this prevents the tires from skidding by maintaining better traction whilst braking. Safer. If you want to be all macho and say you don't like ABS, that's your decision, just don't refute the evidence that supports the improved safety of ABS.
If it makes you "feel".. like you're much safer having it,then it's more dangerous.Riding a bike,thinking you're "safe" because you have ABS... Will get you into trouble....!!!!! If you have it and ride like you don't have it... Then it's good to have .....just in case...
If you over-estimate your ability, ABS or not, you will get into trouble. If you over-estimate yourself, you are probably (slightly) safer having ABS. And footnote: you're never really "safe", just "safer".
+Jeremy Freemantle Yes every 60 milliseconds it only acts as a release. The actuation valve opens and closes so you're the one applying the brake while ABS releases pressure to prevent full lockup. It helps to the extent of a rider's ability. I've seen way too many people taking stupid risks because they have ABS or TC... Bad drivers or riders will still find a way to crash.
It's called 'tapping the brakes' people did it long before ABS
Awesome test! Although it was in a test track.. Can you imagine the difference it can make on a real road, where you can be surprised in the middle of a turn by another car, a dog.. etc.. Could be the difference not only in meters but kissing the tarmac or not.. very nice!
This ABS was not made for braking with bank angles.
I've been teached to brake with both breaks, and for me it works perfectly. I have never come into wheel lock.
Breaking bye downshifting is what I do, if I want to slowely break.
For emergeny brakes I use both brakes and pull the clutch, because I dont want the engine to break at the same time as my rear break. On the other hand engine break is not hard enough, if you dont downshift constantly, which I wont do in a emergency situation.
Pulling the clutch and controlling the brakes is the deal.
On the ABS version you have to pull clucth in if you want shorter brake distance. In emergency, pull the clutch and slam on both brakes.
have ridden both abs and non abs bikes and must admit that abs is a safety feature but i have more feel of what the front tyre is doing on the non abs bike.having been riding bikes for over 30years i do prefer the feel i get from the non abs brakes,thats why i traded in my last bike,honda cb1000r abs for a suzuki gsxr750,non abs.although i now only ride in dry conditions(as i have the choice).once you have the suspension set to the way you ride, i feel that the non abs,for the experienced rider is probably the prefered choice.(in my opinion)
+Trevor Paradise I'm riding a Honda cbrrr1000 have been riding 42yrs, I hear you but I also owned a 2005 cbrrr1000 with no abs...I had one experience I know I would have dropped or rolled my 2005 on the highway..now that I used to the abs Ill swear by it...opions and are assholes everyone has one...lol
abs in real life condition is life saving with no doubt
TC actually works the same way as ABS, but reversed. It uses the same circuits, computer and counters. The only difference is that ABS is for braking, and TC is for acceleration.
Abs may increase stopping distance in straight line. It is not designed to stop you quicker. A more suitable test would be to brake hard and steer( hazard avoidance) on a wet surface see who falls off and who stays put.
i just don't understand people who say: "ABS is so stupid, i'll never use this shit, blah blah blah". I understand the fact that if you're a pro you wanna fell the bike 100%, but you'll have to do it on the track not on the highway. it's like: "i have a muscle car, but hey, i don't need control traction, after all, i'm fucking pro". so arrogant.
kim manfré pastro If you are a pro you dont really need a traction control, on my car i always turn it off because i helps me to launch the car faster, but thanks i cant turn abs off easily...
Kim Pastro
It's a masculinity thing, as usual. Most anti-ABS people don't even know how it works and have likely never been a situation where the wheels lock up and they lose traction.
+Kim Pastro Im anti ESP and ASR. ABS is ok. For motorcycles most people tried the very early versions of ABS and these were in deed awful.
Eisenhamster12
Why so testy, Kim?
You're making just as many assumptions as those "arrogant" people you write about.
Love the Avro Arrow picture in the background.
As a novice rider on naked bike I can a test that ABS is really helpful and can be a life saver. But I do have to agree with older folks that abs alone won't save your ass. Having real skills and learning how to be able to swerve will because when caggers will cut us it will be on the very last second! And not hitting them will be better than hitting them fast (no abs) or hitting them slower (abs). Unfortunately that's our reality. My bike as independent abs and switchable off & I think all bike should have it like that.
+DinhoPilot Bingo! ABS in general is great but you know whats better? Being aware of your surroundings. I've been able to avoid more accidents by looking at what's coming at me than having ABS to save me once a mistake was made. Ironically enough I've locked up my brake at lower speeds and never at anything over 40mph... Most think ABS can help keep them on the bike if they hit ice or oil or whatever on the road. That is a really big speculation.
These videos are still very clever, unique or original, so no matter if they have minimal flaws, they are very welcome :)
That's very brave testing braking in those conditions
The MSF course is literally everything that you described.
Yes! For two reasons:
1. No more drive delivered to the rear wheel.
2. Prevent the engine from stalling (stalling the engine kills the ABS)
Also, stalling the engine prevents a quick getaway should the situation call for it.
This video is great. The only thing I think could be better is the fact that it seems that the several riders apparently reach the mark at different speeds, and some brake at the line while others apparently brake later, but I'm not sure... But great video nonetheless. I wish I could mount ABS on my 08 fireblade but I've been told it's not possible.
Amazing how many guys:
a) think they're better than the machine when even the best rider here (who is way better than most of us commentors) stopped sooner with ABS
b) stand in the face of irrefutable video evidence and look for minor flaws in the method.
i agree with you when you say : An experienced rider can stop faster on a dry road without ABS.
I have the C-ABS version and I've completed just over 4400 miles on it in 4 months. The ABS system is amazing. Riding in the wet and slimy british winters are no problems when hard braking. In fact I can just now pull and forget about lock ups completely. Don't even need to use rear brake at all in the wet as the system will add rear brake for you. I highly recommend the ABS bike.
Did not except that. My expierience is that abs takes longer to stand still. Respect ✊ for that test guys! ...and i think i am tough cause i test ride my blade (no abs and bramd new tires) in combareble weather in swiss midlands. (I was buying it, it‘s a great bike, with or without abs )☺️. Chapeau, like the french man would say. 👍🏻
With 16,000 miles on my car, panic braking became natural to me, as deer jump in the road constantly. The transition from cage to bike was difficult, but 1,200 miles on my bike later, riding my motorcycle has become second nature, and I now swerve to avoid obstacles instead of panic braking. I know how to judge what kind of people are going to not see me, and I slow down and change lanes beforehand. Don't worry. I'm a much safer rider than I was when I wrote that comment.
Shiny side up.
I wish they would explain how Trail braking works on a combined ABS bike.
It only applies a bit of rear brake, nothing you should have to worry about.
Yes that is true. And what about the ZX 10 R :D She's beautiful. By the way, even if we won't be agree, I did enjoy this rewarding discussion. Take care on the road mate.
Good comparison however some constructive comments if I may. I'd suggest you use a GPS based system, so the measurement is made from when the lever is applied, not when you "judge" you are near the "white line" or witches hat. Dare I say - borrow a system from the 4 wheel guys and you'll see what I mean to obtain very accurate figures. Great work MCN - please keep all videos coming!
Cheers, that was some good advice. I was used to clutching in whenever I break to a stop.
I don't know much about it. but I myself avoided an abs version for my bike Apache. later on all that I understood about it is that it helps you in a condition when you are not hundred percent active as usual.
for example I bring my vehicle (Tvs Apache 160 cc) from 112 kmph to 0 kmph in less than 3 seconds even without skidding the vehicle but the moment when I am not that much attentive or the moment a sudden situation arises and I loses my heart or confidence, it (abs) has the ability to do the same for me as at that moment because in such cases, one have balance on his body but not on mind. so one is capable enough to apply brakes with full pressure but not able to do it sensible. in that condition abs works like an angel to you.
Does anybody here understand how abs works.... it does nothing at all nothing. It only activates when rotational speed of 1 tire changes from another while braking meaning locked wheel skidding and then it releases the fluid pressure to stop the skid and unlock the wheel minimally the continue rotating giving the bike tracking then reapplying pressure to stop the bike. Works the same in cars. With the exact same conditions a person cannot apply and release brake pressure as fast to retain traction. It's not possible for your brain to even calculate that fast by feel or experience. It is also meant as a BACK UP to when you screw up and you know when it is activated by the pressure changes in your brake lever backing on and off. If you have no understanding on how technology works then please don't confuse others with ignorant comments. Abs is an advancement like many other things it moves us forward if you don't like it don't use technology but don't fool others with your ignorance... sorry for the rant just seeing some of these comments makes my stomach turn.
nick paskal
I find it's mostly kids/young adults, with probably a year of riding experience (there are exceptions), and masculinity issues, making these ABS claims. "I'm a man, I don't need no stinkin ABS! I know how to remain calm when that pick-up truck pulls out in front me, and I have a split-second to react!" Then it happens, they crash, and either become anti-motorcycle advocates, or sit on youtube watching vids of others riding.
lol true story bro
+PerryR1985 You realize that if a truck pulls out in front of you ABS will increase your braking distance. You will end up in the back of that truck. Braking drills are the only thing that will keep you safe at the end of the day. Trust yourself not the tech. If you start living off the tech you're going to find yourself failing and that will be costly
Not entirely sure I fully understand, but how does ABS increase braking distance? All it does is prevent the rear tire from locking up. If you're referencing to the testing, it concerns full reliance on squeezing the brakes hard vs highly trained braking. In an empty parking lot/course, Even then, the ABS resulted in generally more safe results. Controlled conditions do not = real road conditions. You can practice for years, and I guarantee that in most instances, you won't be prepared for a truck pulling out. I must say, I don't understand this anti-abs crusade. Why is something that clearly enhances safety frowned upon?
PerryR1985 How do you prevent lock up? It releases braking pressure a certain number of times a second. Depending on how aggressive the system is, it can nullify your braking input in a number of situations. If you do not have braking pressure there is nothing slowing you down anymore. Thus the increased braking distance. There's a reason why most enduro and track bikes come with the option to turn them off.
"You can practice for years, and I guarantee that in most instances," That statement makes me question if you ride at all. There are plenty of us who have been in bad situations and brought our vehicles to a halt just fine even with slight lockup. The claim that practice cannot save you from lock up is the problem ABS brings to the table.
The people who believe that ABS is some miracle working system that prevents crashes in every situation are the problem. I'm not anti ABS, however I am against the belief that a person is completely incapable of being able to stop their vehicle in an emergency.
It is a safety net for skilled riders and a crutch for bad ones. Look at the misinformation in the comments alone. People genuinely believe that ABS is a replacement for skill.
One think I would like to see is at least offering it as an option in smaller cc bikes. Learner riders are asking for it more than experienced guys, Bosche MSC would be awesome aftermarket option, anyyone know if you can get it put on a gsxr750?
who puts there gloves on before there helmet?
Yes, but because it prevents the wheel from blocking braking distance became shorter.
One thing i don't like here that's the idea was wrong, they should do it for rear brakes, so when you push the pedal wheel instead of blocking will spin and brake.
along with ABS if your learn to execute perfect engine braking it increases the chance to avoid crashes and better than just relying on just ABS.you guys should have done engine braking & ABS test and only ABS test how much difference would it make
rear brake took all the grip available on the rear tire as you can see.
this were pro rider or advance rider and they cant beat an abs bike in a testing situation not factoring panic brake you that will occur in real life and newer bike that come with an even more advance Bosch abs basically brakes better then pretty much any rider on non abs bike could why wouldn't you want that kind of level of certainty and performance that wont be effected by the rider that may lock up the brake when they panic
I recently bought a 2015 suzuki dr200 dual sport and I was flying down our mountain road doing 55-60 and in a tight turn with ice, well last second almost through the turn a deer starts freaking walking infront of me lol I used the rear brake over the front and I dont think it has abs but I skid for not even a second, lessened up on my footing and reapplied slowly and I slowed down from 55 at that point to 0mph in less than 120ft. so far its been a great learners bike and I could see it even being a highway bike after its broke in and I swap the sprocket for a bigger one
What you just described sounds exactly like the MSF course, which is available here in the states as well as the DMV test. The MSF course is a 30-40 hour course, 10 in class, the rest on the course. It's basically exactly what you just described. It costs around $100 USD and is pretty difficult to pass. If you pass, and can prove that you passed it, then the DMV waives the final test and just gives you your license.
@6:00 he is wrong about braking all in. ABS is no braking assistance. It only prevents a wheel from blocking. ☝🏿🧐
You should always increase the braking pressure constantly whether it is an ABS or a non-ABS bike. If you initiate the brake too hard, the ABS will kick in and reducing the deceleration.
I've been taught* to brake with both brakes*, and for me it works perfectly. I have never had a wheel lock*.
I use downshifting to brake slowly***
For emergency* brakes I use both and pull the clutch, because I don't* want the engine to brake* at the same time as my rear brake. Engine brake* is not hard enough if you don't* downshift constantly, which I wont do in an* emergency situation**.
Pulling the clutch and controlling the brakes is the deal.
FTFY
"An indicated 80 is a true 70", really?
I know speedos are not totally accurate compared to GPS, but 10mph at 80mph, surely not?
For some reference: I was driving an indicated 99 km/h when I got flashed. The end result was a true speed of 90 km/h after a tolerance of 3 km/h. So my bike was reading about 6 km/h too fast. And that will only increase at 80 mp/h so I'd say it's roughly accurate, maxbe a bit too high.
Great demo. If I were to buy a new bike, I would now look for ABS. Thanks.
And yes it will make you stop faster if your front tire locks your not stopping your sliding and from those of us that actually ride know front locked at any decent speed means sliding not stopping so in turn not locking front tire (which is the most effective brake) means stopping, more stopping power means faster stopping. Releasing locked tire and reapplying brake pressure tens of times per second right after tire is unlocked is stopping faster. It has been proven that a tire that is applying rotational resistance (braking) slows a vehicle much faster than a vehicle which has locked tires up and is just sliding. The fact that you can steer to avoid object with abs is a bonus to not having locked tires that in turn means no control at all of your vehicle.
If you own a car then this will make sense-
Chances are your car has abs.
Have you ever braked hard and heard a noise like a drum beating quickly and felt your brake pedal vibrate quickly?
That was your abs working.
Do you "activate" your abs every time you brake? (Have a vibrating pedal?)
More than likely you rarely if ever have it happen.
Other wise when you brake does it feel like you have given away "FEEL" of your brake pedal when the pedal is not vibrating.
Are you unable to feel the conditions of the road through your brake pedal?
I don't think so you should be able to feel everything and Guage the traction of the road with it.
You lose nothing but gain a backup to short falling of being human
Many compare to motogp and say we'll they dot use it!!!
Well they are on a CLEAN SWEPT NO SAND SPOTS BROKEN GLASS OIL FREE NO CAGERS AROUND NO WORRIES ABOUT WHAT'S BEHIND THE NEXT BEND WITH SLICKS ON TRACK YES TRACK NOT STREET WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE AS UNCERTAINTIES at every corner and if a rider can ride absent minded because of abs he should not ride or drive a car as he is an idiot who will kill himself or others. But I guess there are some of your who can see the future while riding a bike and are able to spot each and every possible le part of the road and determine appropriate brake pressures cause your a fuckin wizard
in an emergency situation you pull the clutch because you dont want your brakes to have the added load of the engine's momentum..because the brakes slow down faster than the sole engine braking they need to slow down the engine too. engine braking is only useful in everyday commuting to save gas. hope that helped
ABS was not introduced to reduce braking distance. It was do allow drivers to remain in control of their vehicle.
FYI, this was a wet surface. :)
@Koener the only thing that can stop you from turning the bike while the ABS is activated is the grip of the asphalt. If it has a high grip then it may be very hard because of the force of the braking itself against your capacity to turn, but if it's wet for example the bike won't stop abruptly even with the ABS and you can turn it to avoid crashing because the wheels are not locked
Abs for life!
I have a bike without ABS and have slid a few times due to hard braking to avoid assholes mentioned in the situations (running red lights, illegal side lane turning into main road without giving way to main road users etc.).
I have to say, my intermittent braking skills are now way better due to aforementioned near-misses, but I think ABS would help a lot too.
@TheM104, don't confuse being full on the brakes and turn to dodge an obstacle with applying full brakes while in the middle of a turn ;) I was referring to the first.
I did a lot of practice... but I agree, I could try your suggested method.
I must admit, I never tried it...
the old guy was stopping before the starting point and slowed right down too thats why he stopped in shorter distance
I know this is an old thread but I searched high and low for my non abs 2012 Fireblade, I don’t need abs. My bike is strictly for dry sunny days and pleasure, I don’t even commute on it. The reason I wanted a non abs is firstly it weighs a ton, second there have been technical problems with the system, and thirdly in my opinion you’d have to be riding like a lunatic to lock the front end of any modern superbike up in the dry. Based on all the above I was delighted to find my mint, low mileage, non abs model last March for roughly £500 less than the equivalent abs equipped model.
First thing everyone needs to know, previous to understand how abs works, is when abs works, not in every brake you do, but just in slippery situations, when a non abs bike doesn't save you.
Like on cars, why dont they just fit ABS on bikes as standard??
OhFookinELL Because the bikes geometry changes based on which brake your are applying. If you are going around a corner and overcook it, you need to know exactly what your bike is going to do and what you're going to feel when you apply the brakes. In bikes where the ABS applies a portion of braking to both wheels (and I don't believe all bikes these days do this, but I could be wrong), you're going to hit the brakes expecting the bike to behave one way, but have something slightly different occur, which in a lot of peoples opinion is more dangerous than not having ABS. On top of that, learner riders won't learn to emergency brake properly without developing a dependency on simply clamping the brakes as hard as they can every time they need to stop.
And on some bikes ABS adds $1000, which is a deal breaker for some people.
+OhFookinELL Mainly because it took longer for ABS to mature on motorcycles.
Cars have 4 wheels, which means redundancy, which means it's easier to come up with an ABS system that works properly. Bikes have only two wheels, only one drive wheel, and have to not be disastrous when the ABS engages during a lean.
But ABS is now mature and should be standard on all non-dirt bikes. It's really only price competition that keeps it from being that way, now. ABS adds $500 or more to a bike, and that's a good 10% or more of a low-end bike. IMHO, it's a no-brainer because ABS saving you from even one 5mph accident will easily save you more money than it costs.
+Fuck off google pretty sure that's not the case. If you're in a situation where your ABS wouldn't lock up then it behaves just like any other brake. Anyone who thinks ABS somehow changes the feel of the bike to the point where they no longer have brake control while cornering, etc, probably hasn't used ABS.
+Will Davis fuck dude you make good true comments...what do you or did you ride..not sure if you saw my first post I ride a 2012 Honda cbr rr 1000 had a 2005 cbr rr1000 no abs.. I swear by it now, I have practiced in the rain in parking lots and had a highway sudden hard brake...if I was on my 2005 the braking results would have been way different...
The superstock racer was slowing down before he even got to the cones, the speed diffrence was visable.
@a6km pretty certain even if you engage abs, if you remove your brake application at the lever, braking would stop. Also the ABS can be turned off if you like. It will always be engaged when you turn the bike on initially. I don't have this bike, but it's what I'm wanting once I can afford it.
❤cbr, God bless everyone
Only thing I'd change is 'you don't know its ABS', nice that it's smooth and not juddery but would be good to have a warning light or something for people learning to brake.
@djolepowertube he just said that there is no physical connection between the brake lever and the oil/piston, its all electronic. but considering car abs almost never fail, i would assume the same for bikes.
@markjrobbins ... Anyway, it's still true that you can apply full brakes on event of a surprise and turn to avoid it, even if you have to relief the brakes momentarily to muscle the bike around. Not so without abs. I'm glad that we agree that this system is the way to go. If you have any confirmation or if you are really sure about that lateral traction impossibility in this ABS, please tell me. Thanks!
I won't dispute that some riders will be able in a track for example and within reasonable stress conditions to beat the abs system, but the problem is, even if you have that amazing braking capability, it is very difficult for you to use it in a scenario where things go from perfectly safe to completely out of control in a split of a second, or in a wet road. Besides, Abs allows you to turn the bike while you're full on the brakes. And most important: even these excellent riders make mistakes.
Well, BKstrained is right. Engine braking is more efficient, try getting your bike and ride with a high rev (like when the bike is "screaming" for a shift up), then you stop accelerating. What do you experience? the bike slows down until it reachs a rotation that it was designed to roll, that why you keep downshifting if you are very fast, to make the engine work in a high rotation and helping you to slow down your bike.
PS: If any word is wrong or out of context, sorry my english isnt perfect.
42 m on the wet was actually awesome
@Kendoka05 WITH ABS however, they can just slam the brakes without fear of crashing the bike due to locks. Also, a sliding, blocked wheel is less effective at reducing the speed than a still rolling one.
@TheM104 I actually didn't imply you could apply full brakes in the middle of a turn, but now that you mention that. Which turn? At what speed? Don't forget that when you apply strong braking in a turn, even if the ABS does it's job, you're not only braking but also disturbing the cornering stability and direction.
But even in those situations, a rider using ABS will always have a better chance
If, in any situation, ABS can't save the day, the possibility to do so without it is even less.. ;)
@markjrobbins if you have a point about the lateral traction but how do you know this wasn't taken into account when making this system. Remember that lateral traction loss also affects the wheel spin, which is how the system acts and it's probably enough for the system to block further braking.
But that's in the event of someone on the worse case scenario, which is completely leaned over at a considerable speed (to be at the limit of lateral traction) and a surprise.
I've never heard of insurance companies going crazy over ABS. I'd like to see an article.
To get a motorcycle endorsement in my state, you take a 25 question common sense knowledge assessment which you need to pass 20/25 of the questions to pass the test. Then you hold a learner's permit for two months (60 days) from the date you took the common sense assessment. After you've held it for 2 months, you take a motorcycle skills test on the track. If you pass that one, you get your license.
Nice video, thanks for that... more people need educating about how to keep themselves safe!
Even Bosch do not recommend whacking ABS on full power. They suggest you apply the front brake gradually but quickly. This shifts your weight over the front wheel. If you just grab the lever straight away you don't shift your weight forward properly so the front wheel locks up more easily and you get less braking power.
That kinda defeats the purpose of the ABS system really lol. I thought you just grab a handful and the ABS system applies the brakes as quickly and as powerful as possible without locking the wheels......
+Kak Eyed
This.
That is a lie!
Bosch clearly recommends to go hard on the brakes. You dont have to use it in a slow manner!
Their system literally builds the pressure up slowly to let the weight shift forward.
Please check what Dr. Fevzi Yildirim said about their ABS system!
You are just making up facts.
I didn't know what was a msf course, you didn't explain it.
Here it's about 1000 euros...
Nice placement of your logo in the film...
I got ZX10RR version. Ya its a wonderful bike, never drive noting faster and more friendly on handling.
Meters? Why would you need that? All the measurements they took were in meters, so comparison between them works just fine...and my country really only uses imperial (guess which one that is...)
Interesting video...though I never ride in the damp/wet. I'm sure in panic situations it comes in handy.
can u turn the abs on and off cause that would be good for track days because the abs stops the nose from diving as much and makes turning in slower
Can I just say, ABS is not made to make you stop sooner, its only purpose is to stop the wheels from locking up and to give you control.
Drunkun_Munky www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Features/RideReports/AntiLockBraking.aspx
David Bry What you showing me? Be easier for you to just tell me
Drunkun_Munky Not allowing the wheels to lock up means stopping sooner. Static friction of tyre is higher than dynamic one, so balancing on it's edge, which is what ABS does, is the most efficient way of braking. Plus you don't fall down and slide on your side :)
Michal Gloc Almost, someone did the testing and they found that the optimal braking force occurred when a tyre was rotating at 21% (or something very close to that) relative to the velocity that it was travelling. Although maybe that was for a Formula 1 car, which would be different to a bike. Eh I can't remember.
Fuck off google After watching this video I looked into scientific literature on the topic. There are some interesting reads tho mostly without showing their math and data, so not sure how believable it is. Anyway, consensus is that energy dissipation should happen in brake, and not in place of contact of tyre with road. So locking the wheel is definitely bad idea. I'm not sure where the 21% comes from, but there was some mention about wheel spin vs deforming and stretching of the tyre. Which means the inside of wheel spins a little less than outside diameter of tyre. That's quite small factor though. I happen to work for BMW so maybe I'll be able to reach and ask about this some guys from motorcycles division.
I may sound dumb in asking this but is breaking the same (handling wise) with ABS and without? As in, are there rear and front breaks the same way as in traditional bikes. I sold my motorcycle last year and eying motorcycles again so the ABS is new to me.
Good for you it saved your ass.
The problem its, in the head of a lot of peoples abs mean safety and "i will not lock my wheels so its ok"
and they ride stupidly while there are bad conditions
Like i said when abs appeared on cars insurance companies went crazy because the number of crashs raised a lot.
How many hours you have to learn to ride a bike before to pass the driving licence test ?
Now do a test while cornering. I want to see how the ABS handles breaking while on a turn.
Much better than without ABS, since it tires would just lock up. Not exactly what you want in cornering. ABS only comes into play when your tires lock up.
billigerfusel I know how it works. I just want to see a video of it.
Me too James
at my MSF school they said when u do an ermergency brake u never pull the clutch in cause it cause the rear/front tire to lock up cause u will end up pulling the break too hard using the engine break with it will help break u faster and will not allow u to lock up as easliy as if u clutched in
are you still thinking same way as you did in 2009? do you still think that abs lowers the stopping distance?
i don't think so. abs won't make you stop sooner. its just lets you stop without sliding too much front or rear of the bike.
A bike is very much the same. Engine braking becomes more and more useful the lower the gear you're in. In first gear, you basically don't need the front brake at all, because the engine brakes you so much. In second gear, it's still very useful, with a little tap needed every now and then, maybe in an emergency.
I have been in real emergency braking in a car and bike. With the car in ice (abs no good), in wet road, and full stops from highway speeds to almost zero because of someone thought that stopping in overtaking lane is o.k.
It is statiscally proved that in emergency situations people either overbrake or underbrake. I can only recommend training, training and more training, experience without pratice is useless... You had survival reactions and you can learn to overcome those.
wow do they sell the fireblade in the US
didn't everyone who took a test, have to emergency brake without skidding? (pre-abs)
a very stupid question: once the brake by wire is engaged and for some reason i release the brake lever the system will stop and go to normal operation ? for example on a wet trackday i get scared and panic on the brakes then I slow down to a speed which im confident to take a corner the system will allow me to do that or do i have to make a full stop ?
OK I'm sorry I'm not english but you clearly understand what I mean so don't play on words to look smarter...
what how does pulling the clutch in make the wheel lockup?
Yeah, thats why we should use both for max efficiency. The brakes act on the wheel and have nothing (or almost nothing with the engine), so you can use only the brakes (with clucth on), you will be just fine, but for a better efficiency brake use both, engine braking and regular brake. About the example you gave, it depends on the rider, if you are a casual rider i think that only brakes will give better result, but for a pro its a different story.
Have you ridden a motorcycle?
1. Re-watch the video, he explains why it took the FIRST person 30 meters more to brake.
2. Get on a bike yourself get to cruising speed and let go of throttle without touching the clutch, notice how the bike looses speed very fast.
3. Now try pulling in the clutch and then let go of the throttle, notice the bike barely slows down
4. Do not pull clutch in during EMERGENCY braking. Pulling in the clutch disengages the engine and you loose A LOT of braking power.
Not when you pull the clutch in. It's when releasing the clutch too aggressively that you can lock the rear. You are essentially putting too many revs to the rear all of a sudden. A slipper clutch helps.
ABS saved you from low side (and you can do it manually by mimicking how ABS works through your lever) but it didn't save you from head on collision
The abs story with the insurances company is old.
You're young,and it was paper before
Here to be presented to the driving exam you have to have the theorical exam first.
It's about all the roads signs,rules etc...
if you have less than five mistakes on 45 questions you are allowed to be presented to the two driving exams.
The first is a draw on one of 6 driving skills slalom very low speed or high speed
hrd braking after slalom etc...
Then you have an exam on the road during half an hour...
5:00. cheats using engine braking. ( facepalm). STAY CONSITENT with your max speed until the precise moment of braking to confirm your results are legit.
can u still endo or stoppie the bike with ABS??