I survived an abusive marriage with an alcoholic sociopath. He terrorized and trapped me for 6 yrs. I had more than one night like the one where she's comforting him after he abuses her. It's so hard to explain to people who've never been in that type of relationship all the complexities of it. Honestly you don't really understand yourself when you're in it. It takes time and distance. Every abusive relationship is a unique lock & key pairing. The victim has specific personality traits and psychological vulnerabilities that makes them respond to specific types of abusive behavior. One of the key things I learned was that the abuser convinces you that you need them and couldn't live without them. The reality is exactly the opposite. I'm 53 now and have been in therapy for over 15 years and finally have PTSD of my list of illnesses. 🤩😊
I like the way this episodes compares and contrasts three different types of masculinity. We have Oz in human form, the quiet, considerate, almost stoic type, contrasted with his all animal werewolf form, and then there is the possessive characteristics shown in Xander at the beginning, and then bad boyfriend (I forget his name) to a much darker degree. And then we have Angel, who we understand has been tortured to the brink of losing all humanity, seeming almost as much beast as Oz the werewolf, yet when he breaks his chains (metaphor?) his first act is to protect, while bad boyfriend loses himself so much to the rage and jealousy that he destroys the very thing he professes to love. I think the way the journeys of these three characters is written is the strength of this episode. Also, the depiction of the girlfriend is something scarily true to life, and I love the way you talked in this episode about how her position within the unhealthy relationship came from her empathy and caring nature, those very qualities so frequently praised in cis women - she did everything a women is told she should do, stand by your man, and all that, and look at the costs. With both her, and the boyfriend, it could definitely be argued that they are victims of aiming to live up to their gender stereotypes, and it destroys them both. I would have liked a conclusion where she made it out and learned to value herself and put her own needs first when necessary, but her end was tragically too real to life. It’s so hard to break out of these patterns when everything is telling you that this is what a woman should be. People in abusive relationships are not stupid or weak - I think leaving an abusive relationship isn’t just about the mixture of fear and love for the abuser - there is surely an element too where the abused person has to examine their perception of themself, which is often intrinsically tied to the way the abuser makes them feel. If your last shred of self worth is put towards loving and supporting the person hurting you, how do you put that aside. To everyone who has ever managed this, know that you are incredibly strong, and if anyone is still struggling, know that you have value in your own right.
I can’t remember which reviewer pointed this out, (I think it was Passion of the Nerd), but towards the beginning of the episode, the three couples in the are standing in a circle and the way they are standing indicates a lot. 1) Buffy and Scott are standing next to each other, she has her arms crossed while he is relaxed. This indicates she is guarded, but he is not pushing anything. 2) Willow and Oz are relaxed, but holding hands. They are comfortable in their relationship and are equals in said relationship. 3) Pete has his arm around Debbie in a domineering way. This indicates his possessive nature.
And we add the counselor to the list of supportive authority figures in Buffy's life that have wound up dead. Giles once again remains undefeated champion 😂
It’s interesting on repeat viewing to pick up all the little things that indicate something off with the ‘red hulk guy’, which Scott and the gang are witness to but go unnoticed. I think more or less every line he has indicates he’s always thinking about how well people are preforming their gender role. He makes fun of Debbie’s dream journal by likening it to a thing Barbie would do, and then making a joke that Ken is gay. He jabs at Scott for liking a ‘manic depressive chick’ rather than being supportive. When Buffy compliments Debbie’s flowers he turns it around on whether or not Scott gets Buffy flowers. It’s an obsessive thought process. It says something quite important that no one notices or calls him out, even the audience gloss over it. The writing and the acting encourage us to notice Xander being inappropriate, but the writing for the monster guy lets it play out more like it might in real life or another 90s show. It’s subtle, just part of the noise. The fact that he is abusing her in such a textbook way behind closed doors invites the audience to question these things more. Scott’s line at the end about how you never really know is actually quite important, because certainly you can’t assume the Xander’s of the world are hurting people, but they might be, they might be getting away with a lot because of all the little things people let slide, that allowed bad thought process to grow.
@@tanyaisonYT this is a really good point. I was definitely watching out more as I edited and there are tells when you know to look, but it absolutely got by me during the first watch.
I love how in this episode we are shown three different relationships with a girl and her monster and they range from abusive to healthy. Obviously Debbie and Pete are the abusive relationship. Buffy and Angel are a kind of unhealthy relationship at this point with all their baggage and not to mention dangerous with the threat of Angel losing his soul. And Willow and Oz are a healthy relationship despite Oz being a werewolf. The comparison between all three couples is interesting.
I love how this episode brings on another "classic "monster as well. We have warewolf , vampire , and jeckyl and hyde. The under tones mixed with penny dreadful classic monsters. Plus call of the wild with the inner beasts coming out. There are so many different connections in this episode. Your commentary was great like always.
I dunno if anyone had mentioned it before, but the werewolf costume was changed for practical reasons. This one is easier on the person in the costume, and they also wanted the face to be visible because it meant the werewolf could have expressions and real eyes. I know a lot of people prefer the one they used first, though.
IMO the biggest flaw was putting it on all fours. A standing human can be wolf like; we are good at detecting tiny deviations from the mean. The moment they go on all fours we think “monkey”.
Really great commentary as always. This one really grew on me over time to be honest. I’m not sure the fanbase likes it all that much. But it delves into a tough topic from a lot of angles. TBH I could have watched four more seasons of Buffy talking to her therapist. RIP
I feel like the reason they showed the counselor’s body wasn't about race but because he was a character they actually developed and it increased the emotion of the scene. The first guy that died was a nobody so they didn't bother as it wouldn't have induced the same horror as seeing the body of someone we have an attachment to.
Yeah and the more gore you show, the more the censors get down on shows. also, the counselor dying was also a clue to the real culprit, which is so much more important than a random dead guy at the morgue.
Tyler, so many incredible points made concerning gender and social constructs, the reality of conditioning, and mentioning the carelessness yt media has with black bodies as being treated with more disposableness were all highlights for me. Buffy is my FAVORITE show, and I’ve learned much while also having critiques. You’re making this rewatch so enjoyable for someone like me 😸 Yay yay!!!!
I feel that this episode was really important, even more at the time it aired, when this issues weren't usually even mentioned on TV. And I see that a lot of people, even now, think that it's a problem of adults, in marriage, so to see it portrayed in a high school relationship, I believe was brave, and I can imagine it helped someone going through something similar.
Agreed, it's one of my favourite points in Buffy. There are certain bits, certain points in episodes throughout the entire show that stand out as either bad a** moments, or emotionally driven moments that bring me to tears, and I love watching them. I cannot think of one which has ever lost that emotional reaction for me even after all this time, and this one always thrills me.
One thing I think these early seasons do SO well is show us small instances of toxic/problematic masculinity through Xander, initially in an "everyday" or so-called "acceptable" form - and THEN ramp up those exact same issues via supernatural means, and thoroughly illustrate exactly why such thinking/behavior is harmful and bad. It almost feels like the show invites teen boys to excuse/empathize with Xander, and then encourages them to reconsider.
I love that conversation Buffy has with Mr. Platt. Everything he says has double meaning and is so poignant: "Everybody has demons, right? ...Demons can be fought" (i.e., one of the show's main metaphors). "He got mean. And you didn't stop loving him" - The same can be said for Debbie. "Love becomes your master, and you're just its dog" - I am assuming he uses the word "dog" here because as a counselor it would be unacceptable to say "b*tch". But it works so well here because is makes the viewer subconsciously associate Oz (werewolf) and Angel (who is in an animalistic state).
I think we can see how the show has improved so much in terms of character development, plot lines, cinematography etc. S3 was excellent with a consistently good standard of episode. The metaphor here of the abusive partner shown in a great episode, which is also a homage to Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. This show once again mirrors serious social comment, some great scenes in this episode, the best is when Angel falls to his knees in front of Buffy and the camera pans out with the dead couple on the floor. Great writing.
Something you called out indirectly I wanted to address a bit more head-on: one of the tactics used by abusers is to convince their victims that the one inflicting the abuse is the only person they can depend on. Pete’s “I’ve all you’ve got” is precisely that.
Being a metaphor for the older guy who targets a high school girl then changes after he gets what he wants from her was Angel's initial purpose as a character, it was his intended arc when he was introduced.
I’m so glad you are recapping The whole series of Buffy. There are some truly amazing episodes and I’m really interested on your take on the characters journeys. I know you mentioned having seen a lot of Supernatural but it’s got a huge fan base and no one has reviewed the whole show. It did lose some of its punch as seasons went on and story arcs grew but the characters and their dynamics are what kept people invested. I am really interested in your view of them and how you see their relationships as a man. I watched it with my male family members and they did not pick up on very obvious parallels and subtext. If you ever think about reviewing it I will absolutely pay to watch. For the moment though amazing job on Buffy.
I think it's really important when looking at Xander's behavior (or any character, really) that while he-the-character is a teenage boy, he is written by adults. Those adults can choose to frame his behavior as appropriate or inappropriate. Sweet and protective, or possessive and jealous. Xander-the-character can do immature things, the writers then get to choose whether the show portrays those actions as morally good or a mistake on his part.
Zander is absolutely possessive and weird about his female friends. The older i get and the more I see of where this type of behaviour can end up, the less tolerant I become towards Zander and other men / characters who act this way.
Yeah, Xander has been consistently weird about the female characters surrounding him, from Buffy to Cordelia... and even Ms. Calendar to a smaller degree in only that he likes to weaponize her memory.
It's bothered me for a while how brutally Platt is killed and shown because of the reason you stated, but it didnt occur to me that they literally gave us a white victim and didn't get graphic at all with him. Another notable instance of this was in 2x1, when the black vampire was set on fire and died screaming.
I can't say how satisfying it is to hear a straight man talk about gender in such a mature and nuanced way (while analysing Buffy). My straight (guy) friends are nice, but they still have a more... basic understanding or idea of gender and sexuality (most of them at least).
21:00 - The irony is that Angel and Angelus encompass both of these types of monsters. Angel is precisely the type of beast that wishes, in fact needs to be redeemed. And Angelus is lacking in any humanity, and finds the very concept of redemption revolting. He is dichotomy. He runs the gammut, and that is the inherent risk of his existence. And this dual nature reflects on the very literal Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde thing that Pete is emulating with his 'experiment' - but will never /actually/ be because even his regular self without his serum is an asshole. And then there's Oz, like Angel, who has an 'other half' that is monsterous, but it's the instinctive danger of an animal - not the calculated danger of a psychopathic killer. He is the most responsible and the most controlled 'beast' despite the naturally reckless nature of a werewolf.
You forgot the biggest factor for why Buffy doesnt want to tell the gang! Angel literally killed a beloved member and tortured Giles! You really think they would easily forgive him, even if he has a soul now?!
Your commentry this episode reminds me to a situation a friend of mine is going through. Boy B is a strange guy, known for being a bit of an andrew tate stan but is "harmless" whereas my friend Girl G is part of his friend group and puts up with his attitude. She helps him when he has no money for food, and gave him a place to stay in her flat until he gets his accomodation sorted. After a long while of pushing boundries, he confesses to her and she says no. He gets angry and she kicks him out the flat. Now hes constantly ricocheting between angry and miserable. In his mind its on her to apologise, and hes possesive over her and shows up to her house and gets angry when she talks to or about other guys. Shes the one being made to apologise to keep this friendship. And its not nice at all. This idea of possessive-ness is taught to young men in this society. and it aint good! Your commentry also made me consider the reactions of those around her. In this buffy episode they talk about power imbalances, and we see how when Red hulk is strong he uses it to harm others. But when angel is strong he channels that to save buffy. Oz knows he can get strong but stops himself from using it. In real life, these power imbalances can be strength, social or economic and those with more "power" should use it to protect others. Girl G is now walked home by her other male friends because they are physically stronger and it makes her feel safe. But we see this being taken too far and becoming possesive, using that strength to control others through fear. Thats all i really wanted to say, thanks for the episode! :D
Willow has gained confidence as a result of Oz plus her dabbling in magic, making her feel "in control". She can be strong when she needs to get things done and she was determined here to prove Oz's innocence so I think she kinda put on the big girl pants. Shame Debbie dies, but also poignant. A lot of young people in abusive relationships think they can change someone or want too see the good. "Next time it will be different." Sometimes next time is the last time.
Been loving your Alien and Buffy reactions. I really enjoy your take on scene's and stuff. I beg you please do the Battlestar Galactica reboot series and farscape
I am just tossing in fun facts read/heard from the grapevine about filming this episode - when Faith punches or harshly smacks Buffy (whatever you want to call it), Eliza Dushku has said that she actually did hit Sarah Michelle Gellar, and this is the take they used. Eliza said SMG was off of her mark just enough.
The vast amount of the episode I like and can appreciate. The only thing I hate is when Buffy says to Debbie about not getting a black eye, "You know what works? Don't get hit." It feels like she blames Debbie for being abused with that line. In regards to Angel and Buffy, Buffy never stopped loving Angel when he became Angelus, even when he was psychologically abusing her, and killing/torturing her friends. I think she is still angry at herself for that, and that is possibly why she is so hard on Debbie. Regarding Angel, Buffy doesn't tell anyone about his return because she does fear the consequences in this episode.
Yeah I always felt the same. I do read it as Buffy projecting and also it is an emergency situation to be fair. She is concerned he’s going to kill another person if she can’t find him right away. But poor Debbie
@@keriwebb6988 yeah I read that line of hers on the initial watch as blaming Debbie, but I think the intent was to communicate 'don't get hit, LEAVE HIM', just poorly worded in the moment. That's being generous though perhaps. I like that take that she's projecting, it makes a lot of sense.
her advice for the relationship wasn't "don't get hit", that was her advice for the black eye. like- i'm not gonna give you a tip on how to cover up abuse, i'm gonna tell you if you don't want bruises on your face then you can't be in a relationship where someone is hitting you. it's obviously not easy to leave the relationship but that's not what buffy is insinuating. she's saying there is no better tip for black eyes than to get out of a situation where you're constantly getting them. that's not victim blaming at all
I think the implication is that Debbie isn't entirely blameless. Perhaps through no fault of their own, she and Pete are both victims of the lack of social awareness of partner abuse (which this episode hopes to shed light on). Given that she's ignorant of the abuse dynamic, she perpetuates its cycle. She is painted as an enabler.
Yeah, I have to believe there’s some projecting going on. Also, lest we forget, Buffy’s a teenager, solutions can seem simple when you’re a teenager. Particularly because heightened emotions can make one briefly forget one’s privilege. Buffy is literally a superhero, and has (for better or worse) hard-earned emotional strength backstopping her physical abilities.
0:50 yep, Xander *does not care about Willow romantically* until she is involved with other people. Same with the Inca mummy thing, he was genuinely offended and worried at the idea that Buffy was hosting a guy from Peru.
Holy crap! I've rewatched Buffy a bazillion times and thought I had every guest appearance or cameo of note identified, but I have never before you pointed it out realized that Moseby was the counsler! Great eye!
If you look hard on-line you can find the original and draft scripts. The script for this episode doesn't specify Platt's skin color. It describes Platt as a "surprisingly warm and okay guy." When Willow is at the morgue the script says "She opens the drawer - silently reacts to the horribly thrashed body we can (thankfully) barely see." When Buffy finds Platt the script says: "Now we come around the chair to see that Platt has been HORRIBLY MURDERED. Ripped to shreds. The work of a terrible beast." So it looks to me like (1) they want the biggest shock to come right when Buffy is really opening up to the very likable counselor, (2) it's more impactful if you haven't already seen it with someone else, and (3) they probably didn't have budget for 2 mutilated corpses. Is it possible the producers read the script and said "we better get a black guy to mutilate"? I wouldn't want to disparage people like that without evidence. It was the 1990s, not the 1890s. If we have to judge everything by race, why not instead say "isn't it great that they cast a black guy for this effective and impactful counselor who got through to Buffy"?
I am looking forward to this reaction because I think it's such an interesting episode. I just know you'll have so much to say lol and I love your analysis/opinions. Thanks again for continuing the show ❣️
Here’s the thing when it comes to victim blaming the reason victims do it is because it gives us power back. It makes us feel in control of it. If it’s our fault that means we can do things to stop it from happening again. If it’s my fault, I’m in control. I can prevent it from happening again. I don’t have to be a victim again because it’s in my power. It’s my fault. It’s very very unhealthy and you don’t even really realize you’re doing it.
Oh boy, when I see so many men respond to the bear v man thing with "You're crazy/stupid! You couldn't beat a bear in a fight but you'd have a chance with a man!" I'm like why did your mind automatically convert the scenario from merely being alone with one to being attacked by one? Maybe examine (1) why your mind works that way and (2) what it says about men in general that you didn't even contemplate a scenario where the man doesn't attack the woman and (3) why you are incapable of getting the point even though your own man mind jumped straight to assuming another man is a predator just like a bear. Anywho. I clearly have a lot of pent up frustration about that. And it does tie in pretty nicely to this episode--it's the first time I've watched it since that whole hypo became a thing. The issue with Xander in particular, for me, is that I don't actually think he was written purposely to draw out these issues for the show. I think it was just considered normal teenage boy behavior and sometimes comic relief, only ever problematic in instances where he wasn't in control of himself and immediately glossed over as soon as the hyena wore off. Which I guess makes it more important that we in 2024 can see it for what it is, even if Whedon and the other writers didn't intend for Xander to be viewed as problematic.
I find it interesting when guys turn it around to talk about how bad women actually are and how dangerous it would be to be alone in the woods with them too. They think it’s some kind of gotcha. Like, bro, you’re free to pick the bear too. We won’t stop you.
The funny thing is, a stereotypical father to daughter statement I've heard all my life is "all men are dogs/ rapists if given the chance, you'd practically be safer in the woods with a bear than with a man." There's literally a country song about it called "cleaning this gun". It's a very popular sentiment among men. They just like repeating it when it means they can threaten a teenage boy with a gun, not when a woman realizes it and says it on her own
@@andrewdunn8778 in one conversation I had with a man about this, I tried to get him to understand the point by saying, "Well, wouldn't you have a problem with your mother, daughter, or sister moving in with a random strange man as a roommate?" His response was "It's none of my business! And it wouldn't be like they'd never met him before!" Like no, dude. First you changed the bear hypo to suit your own personal reading, then you changed my hypo about moving in with a "random strange man" to be where they knew the man. 😂
@@chaptereight2639 now I was not privy to your exchange so please forgive me if I'm making wrong assumptions here but to me it sounds like he interpreted it as you meaning that she moved in with a man that _he_ didn't know (with the unsaid understanding that she did know him).
@@Henrik_Holst in the specific context of having gone back and forth several time about the hypothetical of man v. bear, and me saying this was an analogy to help him understand, he'd have to be deliberately obtuse to make that assumption.
I appreciate your criticisms of Xander. His role as Joss stand-in allows him to get away with actions in the narrative that it would otherwise never turn a blind eye upon.
Yes exactly. I love Tyler's critiques in general, and feel his view of Xander is spot on. The show frames Xander as essentially untouchable in terms of immoral conduct/transgressions, character growth, and even his ability to fight super strong beings.
The main issue for me with xander is he is inconsistently characterised. I personally hate one of the other characters that lots of people like, but at least the characterisation is much tighter and the development makes sense. All the things that happen further on have ground work laid in season one. Xander on the other hand has moments of being fantastic and then is a complete turd for no apparent reason. For me it’s poor writing and often just a plot device.
@@ninipookie look up "joss whedon just ruined buffy for me" and click on the cnn article. word search "revealed" in the article then click on the link attached to the word. this will take you to an interview, and if you skip to 6:53, you can hear joss whedon himself say the words "as far as who i relate to, xander was obviously based on me" sorry i can't just link you, the comments don't save, but there is concrete proof. it's not some rumor people have come up with to smear xander.
Thankyou for pointing out the difference in the way the white victim and the POC councillor was depicted. Buffy is an amazing show and progressive in many ways (for the time) but it DOESNT deal with POC stories and characters well. First and foremost there are few depictions of POC and when they are present they are almost always victims or villains rather than well rounded characters (and if they are female they’re often sexualised.) Examples of POC characters and related plots that we have seen in the series so far: Inca mummy girl- empada victim and villain character also a quite sexualised character. Also in that episode the cultural dance where everyone came in costumes of different countries 😬 Then we have Kendall the vampire slayer - killed after a short run of only a few episodes and quite a sexualised costume Mr trick: villian vampire working under the main big bad vampire of the episode in faith hope and trick. Even dead man’s party the implication of the “tribal zombie mask” as the object that brings forth evil is a bit gross There is a great book/ series of essays on the depiction of these subjects in the buffyverse and other shows I think it’s called “joss Whedon and Race” Once you start noticing it you won’t stop.
Plus in dead man's party, I couldn't get the mother's "primitive art" comment out of my head and not wonder if she'd use the same comment for a European historical artifact.
@@howdareyou259 I think the difficulty comes in people's understanding of "appreciation." If I "appreciate" the Mexican culture by celebrating Cinco de Mayo, wearing a sombrero, and getting plastered... well... 😬😬😬😬😬😬 "My culture is not your costume."
I just told myself with great certainty that I'm going to be good now and do some work before watching any more Buffy reactions (I've ended up watching a dozen different people react to this show, because it's almost the only intersection between "stuff popular enough for TH-camrs to react to" and "stuff I want to see people's reactions to") But that title makes it hard to resist… I really don't remember this episode, and have been trying pretty hard to understand gender recently… so don't want to miss out.
@@TylerAlexander I should have listened :p I thought I could finish the chapter that I was scheduled to post the day before, and hopefully watch videos to relax when midnight rolled around. Instead, researching what type of weapons a character would use led me to some very disturbing images and an hour of anxiety attacks. Going to watch your video now, in the hope it can help me to calm down before bed.
@@TylerAlexander watching these Buffy episodes with your commentaries It almost feels like watching Buffy for the first time again... And I can't wait for you to watch the episodes 6 and 9 (my favourites for this season). I'm addicted to your channel! 🫣😂🤗
@@ninipookie maybe, is that made obvious though? And would Giles know? It looks like he showed up and she was asleep. How could he know how much she slept and when? When Xander fell asleep Oz was in the cage, when he woke up Oz was in the cage - but he got yelled at. Still a double standard, right? But I could easily have missed something, the reaction doesn't show everything and it has been a while since I watched the actual episode
@@ernesthakey3396 Xander was asleep from the start, aka he didn't even bother to stay awake one second (plus that they at the time thought that Oz had managed to escape). Giles had assigned Faith to watch over Oz so he knew that Buffy hadn't been there all night asleep (plus that there wasn't the idea of Oz having escaped as well). This is basically saying that you should be just as mad at the kid that threw his dinner plate at the wall vs the other kid that didn't eat the full plate but left half of it.
@@Henrik_Holst thing is, I don't think they should have thought it was Oz anyways. If Oz had gotten out as a wolf, there's no reason he would have come back through the window as a wolf and then changed back so he was there in the morning when he changed back. And he WAS there in the morning. That's not how the wolf acts - it would have roamed free until it slept, Oz would have woken up outside. If so, HE would have known he got out. And I don't think Oz would have pretended otherwise - he may not talk much about his issues, but he wouldn't dodge the responsibility either. So my point was intended to be that they shouldn't have yelled at Xander based on the assumption that Oz got out - they should have chastised him because he could have, which is why there's a watch on him to begin with. They overreacted because they didn't really think about it. Yes, Xander screwed up, but in this instance, Oz didn't get out. So they overreacted with Xander, and didn't react at all with Buffy.
@@ernesthakey3396 yeah it was a very strange decision, though the show has always been made on a tight budget so I guess that they simply had to work with the cage that they had. But realistically even if he had escaped he would never have come back.
As always, great reaction #05:30 I agree. I also liked the werewolf costume better in Season 2. Without meaning to spoil - it's not going to change back for the rest of the entire show 😕
My thing with Xander is not people calling out his behavior. Call it out, please! But there’s so much hatred for him. I would hate for people to judge me so heavily for all the mistakes I’ve made. Also, there’s so much hypocrisy in that people will jump all over his character but rarely say anything about the other characters or, if they do, not with the same vitriol. And it’s not just reactors, the characters in the show do it too. Giles was so angry that Xander dozed off but he walks in to find Buffy sleeping and looks on her lovingly. Again, not you per se, but so many reactors and commenters.
@@lifelikelisa I like when reactors notice how toxic Xander's behaviour often is. But I think I appreciate when they recognize he's a victim of toxic masculinity as well as a perpetrator of it. And he also has a lot of redeeming qualities, and caring intentions (usually), but to not acknowledge his toxicity would be remiss.
@@ceceliam9014 I 100% agree. Again, it’s the hypocrisy and hatred. Call the behavior out because it often is annoying and sometimes really misogynistic.
Yeah, it's something I kinda noticed on first watch but it didn't really strike me until seeing how Tyler edits his videos is how mean Giles is to Xander, like every episode he has a dig for him, which is not something you expect of a cool, level-headed adult, especially when he doesn't really react the same to the other characters.
@@lifelikelisa There are definitely times where I can see being mad at Xander. The finale of season 2 is a time I might still be mad at Xander for. But I also love Xander for a lot of reasons too. I can appreciate reactors having a strong reaction to some of the things he does. In terms of the different treatment of different characters I do find the way everyone excuses Willow for everything frustrating sometimes, but I also think that makes sense at this point in Willow's arc... I prefer some recognition of a need for accountability later though, ngl, and a lot of people don't seem to have that with her.
As a Canadian, hearing "women play hockey" was confusing for a minute, lol. Do women play hockey where you are? Generally, I think, whatever the big sport is in your country, men tend to gatekeep it. Women rarely play hockey in Canada, it's considered a men's sport, there's a "girl version" called ringette that women are more likely to play. Women play soccer and volleyball here.
Two episodes ago, all of her friends and her mother dumped their bad feelings all over Buffy for having run away at the end of last season. She's only just come back to town, only just started attending school again. The right thing to do here would absolutely be to tell everyone about Angel's return, but I can't blame her too much here. She's still reeling.
I think the "don't get hit" and "I think she was broken before this" lines are kinda just Buffy trying to be pithy in a really crap situation among the many she faces while not being a trained psychological professional (or possibly the writers not being able to switch off the pithyness for a situation that is kinda not the place). Feel bad for the counselor guy, probably the most in demand and under applied for job in Sunnydale.
there's nothing inherently bad about gender roles or people who prefer to follow them. the social aspect of it had been established largely due to how we biologically evolved as species, on our differences and how they compliment each other. most people are happy with gender roles and things don't turn ugly when something comes naturally and when both people are decent human beings. unhealthy relationships exist regardless of gender norms because there are bad people in any group
Excellent analysis - looking forward to your thoughts down the line :) And a bit random, but between Alien(s) analysis and this I'd love to hear your comments on Babylon 5 episodes and arcs.
Coming from a huge Xander hater, I kinda like that he says stupid sh**. I do like that they have that kinda friend, who’s an idiot and that would say any serious thing in matter of his ego and jealousy. Xander only ever says things that if it’s not about him being right or him being wanted it’s an issue. But I’m glad he’s there because I DO love to hate him so much.
It took me five minutes to get over the background change, I had to restart the video 😅. What’s up with that? I don’t watch everything (like, I don’t enjoy the Alien movies), so if we’ve covered that already, I missed it. This plain yellow wall had me so thrown 😂
Loved your analysis of the episode! This one obviously explores abusive relationships, but it was interesting to hear how you tied it to gender conformity. Also, when Buffy said that Debbie was already broken... yikes. Buffy, you've been talking to her for 5 minutes, it's going to take longer than that. She just needed more time.
she's saying it's not willow and buffy who broke her with interrogation, it's pete's years of abuse and finally cracking under pressure. she also didn't use broken to mean "beyond help", just severely traumatized and not functioning enough to help them stop pete. i feel like everybody assumes the worst of buffy this episode
I think context matters here, Buffy:s remark came after Debbie completely broke down and just sat there and repeated "he does love me" over and over. That is being broken (hence broke down). Not broken beyond repair, but broken.
This is one of my least favorite episodes, but that may be because of a few reasons. 1) Season 3 is just wonderful, so I'm willing to say that this ranks low possibly because everything else is so good. 2) One of my favorite parts of Buffy is how the metaphors aren't always obvious, and this one felt really heavy-handed to me. That being said, I think the message they're trying to get across is good and important, I just think it was a little too on the nose for me. That being said, as always, I appreciated and enjoyed your commentary on the story they were telling. I remember another reactor mentioning that this was very important for young girls at the time to see, to maybe recognize if they're in a similar situation, to be able to identify it and hopefully get out of it. And I tend to forget that kind of impact it can have when it IS heavy-handed.
I'm not @-ing you at all, but men and women are physiologically different. It has nothing to do with how they're raised or how much they eat. Men generally have higher testosterone levels and that promotes more muscle bulk. All else being equal, men are physically stronger than women and that, among other things, has historically led the genders to adopting different roles. Evolution has rewarded different attitudes and instincts towards sex because the consequences and evolutionary rewards of sex and child rearing are very different between the genders. Now beyond that, there is a lot of societal construct that has been built up over thousands of years around these root cause biological / instinctual differences that isn't always helpful. We're higher minded beings and we can choose to dismantle these constructs and make different choices other than blindly obeying instinct. But I think we ought to be cognizant that "woke" thought is also a societal construct. We like the idea of equality. There's an aspect of fairness to it that appeals to our ideals. I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone equality is a bad thing - I don't believe that, but I think we like the idea of it so much that we try to impose it in areas where... we're really just arguing with science and reality. Our world wasn't created to our ideals. I think many men are confused and angry today because they're constantly being told their genetics and instincts are morally wrong... and that's coupled with the value of physical strength to society diminishing over time. I don't have any brilliant cure-all solution to any of this, but I think there's still benefit in identifying root causes of a lot of the current political / media tension. ETA: I'm not addressing the domestic abuse issue raised in this episode at all. This is just in response to some of the commentary.
"I think many men are confused and angry today because they're constantly being told their genetics and instincts are morally wrong" - But that's the thing though, those things that are wrong isn't genetics nor instincts, they are thought to them by society. The things that Tyler describes (aka toxic masculinity) isn't something that you are born with in your genes, they are given to you by the society that you live in. The alpha male grifters however are constantly telling these boys that it is their genetics and their instincts that the "woke" people are hating, because that sells the idea that "nothing that you do is wrong and not only can you not help it, but you cannot change it either since it is in your nature". Also yes men are stronger than women on average, but not on an individual level.
I appreciate Tyler saying that gender roles are hugely influenced by social constructs. But I don't think that is the total story. The foundation is laid by genetics. LGTBQ people assert that they are born that way. If not, we could simply 'pray the gay away'. Estrogen and testosterone play huge roles in behavior which is why hormone replacement therapy plays such a critical role for transgender people. You can't simply take a boy a raise him to be a girl. Been tried (John Money and the Reimer twins). Didn't work. It's a delicately-balanced mix.
I enjoy your comments and thoughts. It’s not about agreement or rejection but your conviction of ideas and concepts. You have really taken the third level of Buffy ( first entertainment. Second social commentary, and the third that deals with the philosophy of actions and the meaning of Western Culture) Your narratives bring a viewpoint that is non American Middle Class values . What discussion about Buffy should be but often is not. My experience with this excellent episode will be different and have a different conclusion . My Buffy group was all girls my age and me being the only boy. The core 8 I was closest with were all self confident, intelligent, and very attractive. They had sympathy for Debbie but overall thought she was weak and a victim. They were like Buffy, help her but never could be her. They all felt sad she died but all felt it was her own doing for being with a bum. Over our High School years they thought me about girls . They showed me how they controlled the relationships and the boys . All have gone on to be succesful in life. I stay in touch with my Buffy group and they have told me over the years that they enjoy being women. They all love being around men that look down on women. Misogynistic men are the easiest for them to defeat in the courtroom, the boardroom, and in life. It’s very simple to triumph over stupidity. They now love to face Woke men and women. They tell me they are even easier to defeat. I have learned that anyone bound by any societal value system not based on universal values of morality and consistent ethical outcomes are flawed . That was a lesson we learned and accepted together. Be neither a victim or conquerer. The lesson we learned from this episode was you should try to stop violence but you can’t save people that refuse to save themselves. When you learn life guarding , one of the first lessons is to never try to save a drowning person yourself. It was reach, row, throw ,and then go. A drowning person will drown you and then themselves.it does not mean do nothing but understand the dynamic. Abusive boyfriends are horrific and should be punished severely. My girlfriends agree but they often say the key is teaching the girls to not be victims. The males that hit are full of anger and evil intent. That has nothing to do with popular culture, movies shows etc. , that is a lack of parenting teaching values . The anger of violence is there and it’s not just gender. It’s the absence of empathy, compassion, morality, and genuine respect of the individual right to freedom. So much of Buffy can be traced back to her journey and lessons about morals and ethics in Season 2. This episode shows the void created with selfishness mixed with anger. How really different is this toxic relationship to the one between the student and teacher in I Only Have Eyes For You? Keep up the great reactions and commentary. Looking forward to your next Opus.
Xander: Which half? Is that really up to him? This just seems an extention of Buffy telling him their reklationship isn't up to him. Tyler is incredibly right about what he said and how he said it, and while _Twilight_ opened people's eyes to certain behavior, I feel society still sometimes has a ways to go. But I also feel that is what this episode was getting at while people like Xander and Joss Whedon still don't get it because "it was a joke," or "[Xander's] in high school," and "they didn't mean it." It's no reason to put on Edward Cullen-like behavior, even before the _Twilight_ book came out.
xander immediately going to sleep when watching oz is one of his worst moments and i never see enough outrage for it from the fandom. at least giles gets me 💆♀
The way being a slayer makes her cold towards humanity is explored throughout the show. She wasn’t called to be anything other than a killer of monsters. She often has to compartmentalize her human side in order to embrace the demon energy infused in her to defeat demons.
It's always been an above average episode, which makes it pretty stellar on the scale of "monster of the week" episodes. Interesting that you called him "Red Hulk" and not "Mr. Hyde". I love your talks on the deeper meanings behind the show, and how it's always been a progressive show, and how times have changed from then to now. But you're a bit off the rails if you're suggesting that letting girls play sports is going to have any kind of nurture change to compare to physiological differences in the sexes.
One other thing to point out is that Buffy's viewpoint is that of victim-blaming even though she accepts that Pete is the monster. She has no patience for the trauma "because people are dying" which, while a valid sense of priorities, doesn't excuse the judgemental approach rather than biting her tongue and going with a PRODUCTIVE approach. Check your attitude at the door Buffy, people are dying.
I agree that Buffy’s treatment of Debbie is problematic. I think another consideration is that while Buffy is our “hero” who usually says and does what’s right, she’s still just a teenager with limited perspective and experience of the world. Which does not excuse it, but she likely has a very simplistic/naive view of this type of situation. “Why doesn’t she just leave?” is a question even adults ask, not understanding the nuances involved. I also think there’s some projection happening, just like with James in “I Only Have Eyes For You.” Like Debbie, Buffy was also in a relationship that turned abusive and blamed herself for being the reason that Angel turned into Angelus. I just wish the show could have connected those dots for Buffy & the audience like they did in season 2.
@@ashleydickie5859 Oh to be sure, she has far more of an excuse than many of the healthcare professionals I've seen with the same attitude, but she's still got a bad case of "seeing the problem, not the human". And yes, she's projecting too.
Very good acting on Angels part, acting the feral animal. Top notch. Wow, I just saw the part about POC on screen with graphic injuries vs white people hidden away. Now I will keep finding it, damn. It makes a lot of sense though, bc of colonialism. 💔 This episode really spoke to me when I was younger and I couldn’t even understand why back then. I knew abuse was bad but was too young to understand what it really looked like in real life. Overall, a powerful episode for sure.
Hahahah - okay amazing. I actually don’t watch your Buffy content but I was doing dishes and this video auto played (watched your Hill House). I hate Buffy and I’m an old enough nerd that there was a time in my 20s ALL my friend groups were watching Buffy. Buffy was playing in the background of a million evenings with people I otherwise shared nerdoms with. I hated it then - I talked mad smack about it in a world before these conversations were normal. While I enjoy Firefly (another Joss Whedon) I have problems with the shit he pulls gender wise there too. It’s no wonder that eventually this absolute POS was outed as a terrible person. These characters never felt “real” to me / they felt like the Scooby doo gang written by a wounded little boy who hated women. Just 2 min in and I am almost ready to let this play in the background just to shout “RIGHT?!” Into the middle distance 20 years later. Thanks for picking at the banaids a little.
Hu? I’m commenting in a comment section. I was thanking Tyler for his commentary because it speaks to the inner thoughts I’ve had on Buffy for decades. Manage my mind? Holy shit old man.
Rereading I sound harsher then I meant to. I’m simply reacting to your spice at my comment and was trying to add humor. For example, you probably aren’t an “old man” but assuming gender was your game first. I’m a 48 year old cis woman who isn’t usually called “Lad”. Carry on.
Sorry but that was a very strange way of looking at this. Am I reading you right in that you interpret Joss of having written this to depict Debbie:s and Pete:s relasionship as something positive to to strive for? (btw the episode was also not written by Joss at all but by Marti Noxon).
I kinda disagree with what you said about the differences in men and women. Different chromosomes, brain structures, bone density, gender characteristics, etc.. These things matters and could prove not all things men can do women can. There’s a reason why women don’t take on a lot of jobs that only men takes like iron workers
@@frisc0pn0ib0i you don't disagree you're just talking about a different subject, respectfully. Biology and the different ways people are born physically is not the same as gender. These are two different conversations.
@@frisc0pn0ib0i I'm not saying it's irrelevant. But it's not as relevant as you seem to think it is as applied to this specific episode. I'm not talking about these topics in a vacuum, I'm talking about them because they are things in the episode I'm watching that directly influence the flow of events and the story happening on screen. What you're doing is widening the conversation arbitrarily because I mentioned gender, but the only reason I spoke on gender was because the things happening in the episode very specifically stem from gender as it exists in our society and how that has influenced us to get us into positions like that which we see in the episode. The abuse pattern we see in this episode rears its head because of insecurity in a man that has stemmed from unhealthy and harmful GENDER NORMS. Which is why I focus on gender. Just because there might be additional things you could add to the conversation that I didn't in this particular instance doesn't mean that I'm saying they're not relevant as a whole, but no they're not necessarily relevant in the context of this episode.
I admit I love your commentary when it is about the show and I think your reactions are pretty adorbs. But the more social purposed sexual ideals and gender roles as well as most other things that don't to me deal with the show itself are just boring. Why is it needed? They are obviously wonderful char's and fun to watch. Logical discourse about the show and it's social/political/sexual ideology might be better suited to a show that isn't fantasy and playfully driven. Having said that, I can't really disagree more about how men socially interact with woman on a larger scale and most of it having to do with how our brains are wired as show by science. Sorry if my comment is a bit long and blah blah, just sayin...
All of my commentary is only ever centred on the episodes I watch and whatever is in any given episode. Is any of my commentary 'needed', whether social commentary, political, or simply regarding the story, writing, acting, or whatever else? Not really. I choose to do this the same as anyone else who has an interest chooses to do whatever it is that interests them. I find it fun. What you're asking is for me to be selective in my commentary because...well, only you can answer that question. I don't mean this as any kind of attack, and I mean it as gently as possible, but it seems to me as if my comments about a particular subject made you uncomfortable, or bored you specifically. That's not anything to do with me. Equally there are going to be those that are interested in the things you've identified as boring. Gender exists, it's something that influences us, how we live, how we function in society, and I saw those touches very deeply in this episode and so I took the time to comment on it just like I do anything else. If I start to omit parts of my commentary I might as well not do it. Buffy is fantasy of course but it's also deeply in touch with the human condition, with trauma, with heartache, with (in this case) abuse, and is irrevocably tied to humanity. As playful as the show might be at times it's equally laced with heavy themes. For me to ignore all of that would be akin to me ignoring half of the show and, to me, that's why it's needed.
I survived an abusive marriage with an alcoholic sociopath. He terrorized and trapped me for 6 yrs. I had more than one night like the one where she's comforting him after he abuses her.
It's so hard to explain to people who've never been in that type of relationship all the complexities of it. Honestly you don't really understand yourself when you're in it. It takes time and distance.
Every abusive relationship is a unique lock & key pairing. The victim has specific personality traits and psychological vulnerabilities that makes them respond to specific types of abusive behavior. One of the key things I learned was that the abuser convinces you that you need them and couldn't live without them. The reality is exactly the opposite.
I'm 53 now and have been in therapy for over 15 years and finally have PTSD of my list of illnesses. 🤩😊
I like the way this episodes compares and contrasts three different types of masculinity. We have Oz in human form, the quiet, considerate, almost stoic type, contrasted with his all animal werewolf form, and then there is the possessive characteristics shown in Xander at the beginning, and then bad boyfriend (I forget his name) to a much darker degree. And then we have Angel, who we understand has been tortured to the brink of losing all humanity, seeming almost as much beast as Oz the werewolf, yet when he breaks his chains (metaphor?) his first act is to protect, while bad boyfriend loses himself so much to the rage and jealousy that he destroys the very thing he professes to love. I think the way the journeys of these three characters is written is the strength of this episode.
Also, the depiction of the girlfriend is something scarily true to life, and I love the way you talked in this episode about how her position within the unhealthy relationship came from her empathy and caring nature, those very qualities so frequently praised in cis women - she did everything a women is told she should do, stand by your man, and all that, and look at the costs. With both her, and the boyfriend, it could definitely be argued that they are victims of aiming to live up to their gender stereotypes, and it destroys them both.
I would have liked a conclusion where she made it out and learned to value herself and put her own needs first when necessary, but her end was tragically too real to life. It’s so hard to break out of these patterns when everything is telling you that this is what a woman should be. People in abusive relationships are not stupid or weak - I think leaving an abusive relationship isn’t just about the mixture of fear and love for the abuser - there is surely an element too where the abused person has to examine their perception of themself, which is often intrinsically tied to the way the abuser makes them feel. If your last shred of self worth is put towards loving and supporting the person hurting you, how do you put that aside.
To everyone who has ever managed this, know that you are incredibly strong, and if anyone is still struggling, know that you have value in your own right.
I can’t remember which reviewer pointed this out, (I think it was Passion of the Nerd), but towards the beginning of the episode, the three couples in the are standing in a circle and the way they are standing indicates a lot.
1) Buffy and Scott are standing next to each other, she has her arms crossed while he is relaxed. This indicates she is guarded, but he is not pushing anything.
2) Willow and Oz are relaxed, but holding hands. They are comfortable in their relationship and are equals in said relationship.
3) Pete has his arm around Debbie in a domineering way. This indicates his possessive nature.
I love TPN!
And we add the counselor to the list of supportive authority figures in Buffy's life that have wound up dead. Giles once again remains undefeated champion 😂
It’s interesting on repeat viewing to pick up all the little things that indicate something off with the ‘red hulk guy’, which Scott and the gang are witness to but go unnoticed. I think more or less every line he has indicates he’s always thinking about how well people are preforming their gender role. He makes fun of Debbie’s dream journal by likening it to a thing Barbie would do, and then making a joke that Ken is gay. He jabs at Scott for liking a ‘manic depressive chick’ rather than being supportive. When Buffy compliments Debbie’s flowers he turns it around on whether or not Scott gets Buffy flowers. It’s an obsessive thought process. It says something quite important that no one notices or calls him out, even the audience gloss over it. The writing and the acting encourage us to notice Xander being inappropriate, but the writing for the monster guy lets it play out more like it might in real life or another 90s show. It’s subtle, just part of the noise. The fact that he is abusing her in such a textbook way behind closed doors invites the audience to question these things more. Scott’s line at the end about how you never really know is actually quite important, because certainly you can’t assume the Xander’s of the world are hurting people, but they might be, they might be getting away with a lot because of all the little things people let slide, that allowed bad thought process to grow.
@@tanyaisonYT this is a really good point. I was definitely watching out more as I edited and there are tells when you know to look, but it absolutely got by me during the first watch.
I hate that Debbie ends up dying, but I appreciate the portrayal of the cycle of abuse and how it often ends tragically
SMG is such an incredible actor. She can say so much with just facial expressions.
I love how in this episode we are shown three different relationships with a girl and her monster and they range from abusive to healthy. Obviously Debbie and Pete are the abusive relationship. Buffy and Angel are a kind of unhealthy relationship at this point with all their baggage and not to mention dangerous with the threat of Angel losing his soul. And Willow and Oz are a healthy relationship despite Oz being a werewolf. The comparison between all three couples is interesting.
I love how this episode brings on another "classic "monster as well. We have warewolf , vampire , and jeckyl and hyde. The under tones mixed with penny dreadful classic monsters. Plus call of the wild with the inner beasts coming out. There are so many different connections in this episode. Your commentary was great like always.
my favorite piece of callback humor in the entire series: the job aptitude test said that Xander should be a prison guard.
Lo and behold the results!
I dunno if anyone had mentioned it before, but the werewolf costume was changed for practical reasons. This one is easier on the person in the costume, and they also wanted the face to be visible because it meant the werewolf could have expressions and real eyes. I know a lot of people prefer the one they used first, though.
IMO the biggest flaw was putting it on all fours. A standing human can be wolf like; we are good at detecting tiny deviations from the mean. The moment they go on all fours we think “monkey”.
Personally, I think the biggest flaw was making it a giant mop. I mean, what's with the long hair/fur? It gives less wolf and more lhasa apso
I actually really prefer this version over the first. It's more dog like in my eyes. And I like the more "human" face.
Really great commentary as always. This one really grew on me over time to be honest. I’m not sure the fanbase likes it all that much. But it delves into a tough topic from a lot of angles.
TBH I could have watched four more seasons of Buffy talking to her therapist. RIP
@@tanyaisonYT fr they've gotta stop killing off really cool characters 😂
I feel like the reason they showed the counselor’s body wasn't about race but because he was a character they actually developed and it increased the emotion of the scene. The first guy that died was a nobody so they didn't bother as it wouldn't have induced the same horror as seeing the body of someone we have an attachment to.
Yeah and the more gore you show, the more the censors get down on shows. also, the counselor dying was also a clue to the real culprit, which is so much more important than a random dead guy at the morgue.
Tyler, so many incredible points made concerning gender and social constructs, the reality of conditioning, and mentioning the carelessness yt media has with black bodies as being treated with more disposableness were all highlights for me. Buffy is my FAVORITE show, and I’ve learned much while also having critiques. You’re making this rewatch so enjoyable for someone like me 😸 Yay yay!!!!
I feel that this episode was really important, even more at the time it aired, when this issues weren't usually even mentioned on TV. And I see that a lot of people, even now, think that it's a problem of adults, in marriage, so to see it portrayed in a high school relationship, I believe was brave, and I can imagine it helped someone going through something similar.
This one is one of my favorite episodes of the early season. "Time's up. Rules change."
Agreed, it's one of my favourite points in Buffy. There are certain bits, certain points in episodes throughout the entire show that stand out as either bad a** moments, or emotionally driven moments that bring me to tears, and I love watching them. I cannot think of one which has ever lost that emotional reaction for me even after all this time, and this one always thrills me.
One thing I think these early seasons do SO well is show us small instances of toxic/problematic masculinity through Xander, initially in an "everyday" or so-called "acceptable" form - and THEN ramp up those exact same issues via supernatural means, and thoroughly illustrate exactly why such thinking/behavior is harmful and bad. It almost feels like the show invites teen boys to excuse/empathize with Xander, and then encourages them to reconsider.
I love that conversation Buffy has with Mr. Platt. Everything he says has double meaning and is so poignant:
"Everybody has demons, right? ...Demons can be fought" (i.e., one of the show's main metaphors).
"He got mean. And you didn't stop loving him" - The same can be said for Debbie.
"Love becomes your master, and you're just its dog" - I am assuming he uses the word "dog" here because as a counselor it would be unacceptable to say "b*tch". But it works so well here because is makes the viewer subconsciously associate Oz (werewolf) and Angel (who is in an animalistic state).
my favourite day of the week!! (new buffy ep from tyler)
@@bashby97 💙💙💙
I think we can see how the show has improved so much in terms of character development, plot lines, cinematography etc. S3 was excellent with a consistently good standard of episode. The metaphor here of the abusive partner shown in a great episode, which is also a homage to Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. This show once again mirrors serious social comment, some great scenes in this episode, the best is when Angel falls to his knees in front of Buffy and the camera pans out with the dead couple on the floor. Great writing.
Something you called out indirectly I wanted to address a bit more head-on: one of the tactics used by abusers is to convince their victims that the one inflicting the abuse is the only person they can depend on. Pete’s “I’ve all you’ve got” is precisely that.
Being a metaphor for the older guy who targets a high school girl then changes after he gets what he wants from her was Angel's initial purpose as a character, it was his intended arc when he was introduced.
😮
I’m so glad you are recapping The whole series of Buffy. There are some truly amazing episodes and I’m really interested on your take on the characters journeys.
I know you mentioned having seen a lot of Supernatural but it’s got a huge fan base and no one has reviewed the whole show. It did lose some of its punch as seasons went on and story arcs grew but the characters and their dynamics are what kept people invested. I am really interested in your view of them and how you see their relationships as a man. I watched it with my male family members and they did not pick up on very obvious parallels and subtext. If you ever think about reviewing it I will absolutely pay to watch. For the moment though amazing job on Buffy.
I think it's really important when looking at Xander's behavior (or any character, really) that while he-the-character is a teenage boy, he is written by adults. Those adults can choose to frame his behavior as appropriate or inappropriate. Sweet and protective, or possessive and jealous. Xander-the-character can do immature things, the writers then get to choose whether the show portrays those actions as morally good or a mistake on his part.
I never ever tire of watching you jam out to the Buffy theme. 😄💛
Zander is absolutely possessive and weird about his female friends. The older i get and the more I see of where this type of behaviour can end up, the less tolerant I become towards Zander and other men / characters who act this way.
Yeah, Xander has been consistently weird about the female characters surrounding him, from Buffy to Cordelia... and even Ms. Calendar to a smaller degree in only that he likes to weaponize her memory.
It's bothered me for a while how brutally Platt is killed and shown because of the reason you stated, but it didnt occur to me that they literally gave us a white victim and didn't get graphic at all with him. Another notable instance of this was in 2x1, when the black vampire was set on fire and died screaming.
I can't say how satisfying it is to hear a straight man talk about gender in such a mature and nuanced way (while analysing Buffy). My straight (guy) friends are nice, but they still have a more... basic understanding or idea of gender and sexuality (most of them at least).
21:00 - The irony is that Angel and Angelus encompass both of these types of monsters. Angel is precisely the type of beast that wishes, in fact needs to be redeemed. And Angelus is lacking in any humanity, and finds the very concept of redemption revolting. He is dichotomy. He runs the gammut, and that is the inherent risk of his existence. And this dual nature reflects on the very literal Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde thing that Pete is emulating with his 'experiment' - but will never /actually/ be because even his regular self without his serum is an asshole. And then there's Oz, like Angel, who has an 'other half' that is monsterous, but it's the instinctive danger of an animal - not the calculated danger of a psychopathic killer. He is the most responsible and the most controlled 'beast' despite the naturally reckless nature of a werewolf.
You forgot the biggest factor for why Buffy doesnt want to tell the gang! Angel literally killed a beloved member and tortured Giles! You really think they would easily forgive him, even if he has a soul now?!
Your commentry this episode reminds me to a situation a friend of mine is going through. Boy B is a strange guy, known for being a bit of an andrew tate stan but is "harmless" whereas my friend Girl G is part of his friend group and puts up with his attitude. She helps him when he has no money for food, and gave him a place to stay in her flat until he gets his accomodation sorted. After a long while of pushing boundries, he confesses to her and she says no. He gets angry and she kicks him out the flat. Now hes constantly ricocheting between angry and miserable. In his mind its on her to apologise, and hes possesive over her and shows up to her house and gets angry when she talks to or about other guys. Shes the one being made to apologise to keep this friendship. And its not nice at all.
This idea of possessive-ness is taught to young men in this society. and it aint good!
Your commentry also made me consider the reactions of those around her. In this buffy episode they talk about power imbalances, and we see how when Red hulk is strong he uses it to harm others. But when angel is strong he channels that to save buffy. Oz knows he can get strong but stops himself from using it. In real life, these power imbalances can be strength, social or economic and those with more "power" should use it to protect others. Girl G is now walked home by her other male friends because they are physically stronger and it makes her feel safe. But we see this being taken too far and becoming possesive, using that strength to control others through fear.
Thats all i really wanted to say, thanks for the episode! :D
Thats why Angel needed to come back so soon; Buffy is healing, but just barely...her love for him is still fresh.
Willow has gained confidence as a result of Oz plus her dabbling in magic, making her feel "in control". She can be strong when she needs to get things done and she was determined here to prove Oz's innocence so I think she kinda put on the big girl pants. Shame Debbie dies, but also poignant. A lot of young people in abusive relationships think they can change someone or want too see the good. "Next time it will be different." Sometimes next time is the last time.
Been loving your Alien and Buffy reactions. I really enjoy your take on scene's and stuff. I beg you please do the Battlestar Galactica reboot series and farscape
Willow is clinical and professional. She spent a year teaching already! :P
I am just tossing in fun facts read/heard from the grapevine about filming this episode - when Faith punches or harshly smacks Buffy (whatever you want to call it), Eliza Dushku has said that she actually did hit Sarah Michelle Gellar, and this is the take they used. Eliza said SMG was off of her mark just enough.
The vast amount of the episode I like and can appreciate. The only thing I hate is when Buffy says to Debbie about not getting a black eye, "You know what works? Don't get hit." It feels like she blames Debbie for being abused with that line. In regards to Angel and Buffy, Buffy never stopped loving Angel when he became Angelus, even when he was psychologically abusing her, and killing/torturing her friends. I think she is still angry at herself for that, and that is possibly why she is so hard on Debbie. Regarding Angel, Buffy doesn't tell anyone about his return because she does fear the consequences in this episode.
Yeah I always felt the same. I do read it as Buffy projecting and also it is an emergency situation to be fair. She is concerned he’s going to kill another person if she can’t find him right away. But poor Debbie
@@keriwebb6988 yeah I read that line of hers on the initial watch as blaming Debbie, but I think the intent was to communicate 'don't get hit, LEAVE HIM', just poorly worded in the moment. That's being generous though perhaps. I like that take that she's projecting, it makes a lot of sense.
her advice for the relationship wasn't "don't get hit", that was her advice for the black eye. like- i'm not gonna give you a tip on how to cover up abuse, i'm gonna tell you if you don't want bruises on your face then you can't be in a relationship where someone is hitting you. it's obviously not easy to leave the relationship but that's not what buffy is insinuating. she's saying there is no better tip for black eyes than to get out of a situation where you're constantly getting them. that's not victim blaming at all
I think the implication is that Debbie isn't entirely blameless. Perhaps through no fault of their own, she and Pete are both victims of the lack of social awareness of partner abuse (which this episode hopes to shed light on). Given that she's ignorant of the abuse dynamic, she perpetuates its cycle. She is painted as an enabler.
Yeah, I have to believe there’s some projecting going on. Also, lest we forget, Buffy’s a teenager, solutions can seem simple when you’re a teenager. Particularly because heightened emotions can make one briefly forget one’s privilege. Buffy is literally a superhero, and has (for better or worse) hard-earned emotional strength backstopping her physical abilities.
0:50 yep, Xander *does not care about Willow romantically* until she is involved with other people. Same with the Inca mummy thing, he was genuinely offended and worried at the idea that Buffy was hosting a guy from Peru.
Yes but Xander is possessive of Buffy whether she is involved with someone or not.
Of course Mr. Platt had to die, he was an adult being kind to Buffy.
Holy crap! I've rewatched Buffy a bazillion times and thought I had every guest appearance or cameo of note identified, but I have never before you pointed it out realized that Moseby was the counsler! Great eye!
If you look hard on-line you can find the original and draft scripts. The script for this episode doesn't specify Platt's skin color. It describes Platt as a "surprisingly warm and okay guy." When Willow is at the morgue the script says "She opens the drawer - silently reacts to the horribly thrashed body we can (thankfully) barely see." When Buffy finds Platt the script says: "Now we come around the chair to see that Platt has been HORRIBLY MURDERED. Ripped to shreds. The work of a terrible beast."
So it looks to me like (1) they want the biggest shock to come right when Buffy is really opening up to the very likable counselor, (2) it's more impactful if you haven't already seen it with someone else, and (3) they probably didn't have budget for 2 mutilated corpses.
Is it possible the producers read the script and said "we better get a black guy to mutilate"? I wouldn't want to disparage people like that without evidence. It was the 1990s, not the 1890s. If we have to judge everything by race, why not instead say "isn't it great that they cast a black guy for this effective and impactful counselor who got through to Buffy"?
I am looking forward to this reaction because I think it's such an interesting episode. I just know you'll have so much to say lol and I love your analysis/opinions. Thanks again for continuing the show ❣️
Here’s the thing when it comes to victim blaming the reason victims do it is because it gives us power back. It makes us feel in control of it. If it’s our fault that means we can do things to stop it from happening again.
If it’s my fault, I’m in control. I can prevent it from happening again. I don’t have to be a victim again because it’s in my power. It’s my fault.
It’s very very unhealthy and you don’t even really realize you’re doing it.
Oh boy, when I see so many men respond to the bear v man thing with "You're crazy/stupid! You couldn't beat a bear in a fight but you'd have a chance with a man!" I'm like why did your mind automatically convert the scenario from merely being alone with one to being attacked by one? Maybe examine (1) why your mind works that way and (2) what it says about men in general that you didn't even contemplate a scenario where the man doesn't attack the woman and (3) why you are incapable of getting the point even though your own man mind jumped straight to assuming another man is a predator just like a bear.
Anywho. I clearly have a lot of pent up frustration about that. And it does tie in pretty nicely to this episode--it's the first time I've watched it since that whole hypo became a thing. The issue with Xander in particular, for me, is that I don't actually think he was written purposely to draw out these issues for the show. I think it was just considered normal teenage boy behavior and sometimes comic relief, only ever problematic in instances where he wasn't in control of himself and immediately glossed over as soon as the hyena wore off.
Which I guess makes it more important that we in 2024 can see it for what it is, even if Whedon and the other writers didn't intend for Xander to be viewed as problematic.
I find it interesting when guys turn it around to talk about how bad women actually are and how dangerous it would be to be alone in the woods with them too. They think it’s some kind of gotcha. Like, bro, you’re free to pick the bear too. We won’t stop you.
The funny thing is, a stereotypical father to daughter statement I've heard all my life is "all men are dogs/ rapists if given the chance, you'd practically be safer in the woods with a bear than with a man." There's literally a country song about it called "cleaning this gun". It's a very popular sentiment among men. They just like repeating it when it means they can threaten a teenage boy with a gun, not when a woman realizes it and says it on her own
@@andrewdunn8778 in one conversation I had with a man about this, I tried to get him to understand the point by saying, "Well, wouldn't you have a problem with your mother, daughter, or sister moving in with a random strange man as a roommate?" His response was "It's none of my business! And it wouldn't be like they'd never met him before!"
Like no, dude. First you changed the bear hypo to suit your own personal reading, then you changed my hypo about moving in with a "random strange man" to be where they knew the man. 😂
@@chaptereight2639 now I was not privy to your exchange so please forgive me if I'm making wrong assumptions here but to me it sounds like he interpreted it as you meaning that she moved in with a man that _he_ didn't know (with the unsaid understanding that she did know him).
@@Henrik_Holst in the specific context of having gone back and forth several time about the hypothetical of man v. bear, and me saying this was an analogy to help him understand, he'd have to be deliberately obtuse to make that assumption.
This one's not one of my favorites, but not because I think it's bad, I think this one's a very important episode
That was a fantastic diversion into gender constructs. You need to write it down and publish it!
I appreciate your criticisms of Xander. His role as Joss stand-in allows him to get away with actions in the narrative that it would otherwise never turn a blind eye upon.
Yes exactly. I love Tyler's critiques in general, and feel his view of Xander is spot on. The show frames Xander as essentially untouchable in terms of immoral conduct/transgressions, character growth, and even his ability to fight super strong beings.
Ok I don’t know where the Joss stand in thing comes from but it’s not true
The main issue for me with xander is he is inconsistently characterised. I personally hate one of the other characters that lots of people like, but at least the characterisation is much tighter and the development makes sense. All the things that happen further on have ground work laid in season one. Xander on the other hand has moments of being fantastic and then is a complete turd for no apparent reason. For me it’s poor writing and often just a plot device.
@@ninipookieIt comes from a 2000 Joss interview where he says Xander is the character most based on himself and so is the one he most relates to.
@@ninipookie look up "joss whedon just ruined buffy for me" and click on the cnn article. word search "revealed" in the article then click on the link attached to the word. this will take you to an interview, and if you skip to 6:53, you can hear joss whedon himself say the words "as far as who i relate to, xander was obviously based on me"
sorry i can't just link you, the comments don't save, but there is concrete proof. it's not some rumor people have come up with to smear xander.
Thankyou for pointing out the difference in the way the white victim and the POC councillor was depicted. Buffy is an amazing show and progressive in many ways (for the time) but it DOESNT deal with POC stories and characters well. First and foremost there are few depictions of POC and when they are present they are almost always victims or villains rather than well rounded characters (and if they are female they’re often sexualised.)
Examples of POC characters and related plots that we have seen in the series so far:
Inca mummy girl- empada victim and villain character also a quite sexualised character.
Also in that episode the cultural dance where everyone came in costumes of different countries 😬
Then we have Kendall the vampire slayer - killed after a short run of only a few episodes and quite a sexualised costume
Mr trick: villian vampire working under the main big bad vampire of the episode in faith hope and trick.
Even dead man’s party the implication of the “tribal zombie mask” as the object that brings forth evil is a bit gross
There is a great book/ series of essays on the depiction of these subjects in the buffyverse and other shows I think it’s called “joss Whedon and Race”
Once you start noticing it you won’t stop.
Plus in dead man's party, I couldn't get the mother's "primitive art" comment out of my head and not wonder if she'd use the same comment for a European historical artifact.
Well put. One correction - Kendra, not Kendall. I liked her, and they did her dirty to show Drusilla's power... 😓
What is wrong in appreciating other cultures?
@@howdareyou259 I think the difficulty comes in people's understanding of "appreciation."
If I "appreciate" the Mexican culture by celebrating Cinco de Mayo, wearing a sombrero, and getting plastered... well... 😬😬😬😬😬😬
"My culture is not your costume."
@@JhadeSagrav are you Mexican? Most Latinos I've talked to don't care about that, it's more often a first world white people thing.
I just told myself with great certainty that I'm going to be good now and do some work before watching any more Buffy reactions (I've ended up watching a dozen different people react to this show, because it's almost the only intersection between "stuff popular enough for TH-camrs to react to" and "stuff I want to see people's reactions to")
But that title makes it hard to resist… I really don't remember this episode, and have been trying pretty hard to understand gender recently… so don't want to miss out.
@@AngelWedge it's only a short 48 minutes 👀
@@TylerAlexander
I should have listened :p
I thought I could finish the chapter that I was scheduled to post the day before, and hopefully watch videos to relax when midnight rolled around.
Instead, researching what type of weapons a character would use led me to some very disturbing images and an hour of anxiety attacks.
Going to watch your video now, in the hope it can help me to calm down before bed.
Dying for the next Buffy episode!!!!🎉❤
😅 apologies, I meant to have it out before Aliens but it's the next video for early access 😁
@@TylerAlexander watching these Buffy episodes with your commentaries It almost feels like watching Buffy for the first time again... And I can't wait for you to watch the episodes 6 and 9 (my favourites for this season). I'm addicted to your channel! 🫣😂🤗
Also...having chastized Xander for falling asleep, Giles says nothing to Buffy for the same thing?
Buffy fell asleep in the morning when Oz is back to normal already
@@ninipookie maybe, is that made obvious though? And would Giles know? It looks like he showed up and she was asleep. How could he know how much she slept and when? When Xander fell asleep Oz was in the cage, when he woke up Oz was in the cage - but he got yelled at. Still a double standard, right? But I could easily have missed something, the reaction doesn't show everything and it has been a while since I watched the actual episode
@@ernesthakey3396 Xander was asleep from the start, aka he didn't even bother to stay awake one second (plus that they at the time thought that Oz had managed to escape). Giles had assigned Faith to watch over Oz so he knew that Buffy hadn't been there all night asleep (plus that there wasn't the idea of Oz having escaped as well).
This is basically saying that you should be just as mad at the kid that threw his dinner plate at the wall vs the other kid that didn't eat the full plate but left half of it.
@@Henrik_Holst thing is, I don't think they should have thought it was Oz anyways. If Oz had gotten out as a wolf, there's no reason he would have come back through the window as a wolf and then changed back so he was there in the morning when he changed back. And he WAS there in the morning. That's not how the wolf acts - it would have roamed free until it slept, Oz would have woken up outside. If so, HE would have known he got out. And I don't think Oz would have pretended otherwise - he may not talk much about his issues, but he wouldn't dodge the responsibility either.
So my point was intended to be that they shouldn't have yelled at Xander based on the assumption that Oz got out - they should have chastised him because he could have, which is why there's a watch on him to begin with. They overreacted because they didn't really think about it. Yes, Xander screwed up, but in this instance, Oz didn't get out. So they overreacted with Xander, and didn't react at all with Buffy.
@@ernesthakey3396 yeah it was a very strange decision, though the show has always been made on a tight budget so I guess that they simply had to work with the cage that they had. But realistically even if he had escaped he would never have come back.
As always, great reaction
#05:30 I agree. I also liked the werewolf costume better in Season 2.
Without meaning to spoil - it's not going to change back for the rest of the entire show 😕
It’s no spoiler to say I’m going to try to remember to callback to some of these analyses later on.
No one is gonna tell you that Xander was being protective . WE ALL GET IT 😂 x
Also woohoo for 10 K . If anyone deserves it, it’s you 💐
Aw thank you! 😊💙
My thing with Xander is not people calling out his behavior. Call it out, please! But there’s so much hatred for him. I would hate for people to judge me so heavily for all the mistakes I’ve made.
Also, there’s so much hypocrisy in that people will jump all over his character but rarely say anything about the other characters or, if they do, not with the same vitriol.
And it’s not just reactors, the characters in the show do it too. Giles was so angry that Xander dozed off but he walks in to find Buffy sleeping and looks on her lovingly.
Again, not you per se, but so many reactors and commenters.
@@lifelikelisa we praise him where it’s due too. It’s not just hatred for his putrid actions
@@lifelikelisa I like when reactors notice how toxic Xander's behaviour often is. But I think I appreciate when they recognize he's a victim of toxic masculinity as well as a perpetrator of it. And he also has a lot of redeeming qualities, and caring intentions (usually), but to not acknowledge his toxicity would be remiss.
@@ceceliam9014 I 100% agree. Again, it’s the hypocrisy and hatred. Call the behavior out because it often is annoying and sometimes really misogynistic.
Yeah, it's something I kinda noticed on first watch but it didn't really strike me until seeing how Tyler edits his videos is how mean Giles is to Xander, like every episode he has a dig for him, which is not something you expect of a cool, level-headed adult, especially when he doesn't really react the same to the other characters.
@@lifelikelisa There are definitely times where I can see being mad at Xander. The finale of season 2 is a time I might still be mad at Xander for. But I also love Xander for a lot of reasons too. I can appreciate reactors having a strong reaction to some of the things he does.
In terms of the different treatment of different characters I do find the way everyone excuses Willow for everything frustrating sometimes, but I also think that makes sense at this point in Willow's arc... I prefer some recognition of a need for accountability later though, ngl, and a lot of people don't seem to have that with her.
As a Canadian, hearing "women play hockey" was confusing for a minute, lol. Do women play hockey where you are? Generally, I think, whatever the big sport is in your country, men tend to gatekeep it. Women rarely play hockey in Canada, it's considered a men's sport, there's a "girl version" called ringette that women are more likely to play. Women play soccer and volleyball here.
I had the same reaction (fellow Canuck!) but assume he means field hockey which is traditionally a women’s sport. They say “ice hockey” over there 🤭
Two episodes ago, all of her friends and her mother dumped their bad feelings all over Buffy for having run away at the end of last season. She's only just come back to town, only just started attending school again. The right thing to do here would absolutely be to tell everyone about Angel's return, but I can't blame her too much here.
She's still reeling.
Does anyone ever ask, how does Buffy know that Dru had chains? That was Drusilla's chest of stuff.
I mean just knowing Dru, one can assume 😅
I think the "don't get hit" and "I think she was broken before this" lines are kinda just Buffy trying to be pithy in a really crap situation among the many she faces while not being a trained psychological professional (or possibly the writers not being able to switch off the pithyness for a situation that is kinda not the place).
Feel bad for the counselor guy, probably the most in demand and under applied for job in Sunnydale.
I always thought buffy was referring to herself.
there's nothing inherently bad about gender roles or people who prefer to follow them. the social aspect of it had been established largely due to how we biologically evolved as species, on our differences and how they compliment each other. most people are happy with gender roles and things don't turn ugly when something comes naturally and when both people are decent human beings. unhealthy relationships exist regardless of gender norms because there are bad people in any group
Excellent analysis - looking forward to your thoughts down the line :)
And a bit random, but between Alien(s) analysis and this I'd love to hear your comments on Babylon 5 episodes and arcs.
Testosterone levels keep decreasing in men in the Western world with what they add to our food and water
Coming from a huge Xander hater, I kinda like that he says stupid sh**. I do like that they have that kinda friend, who’s an idiot and that would say any serious thing in matter of his ego and jealousy. Xander only ever says things that if it’s not about him being right or him being wanted it’s an issue. But I’m glad he’s there because I DO love to hate him so much.
It took me five minutes to get over the background change, I had to restart the video 😅. What’s up with that? I don’t watch everything (like, I don’t enjoy the Alien movies), so if we’ve covered that already, I missed it. This plain yellow wall had me so thrown 😂
I done care which gender it belongs on, I love the shirt man.
Loved your analysis of the episode! This one obviously explores abusive relationships, but it was interesting to hear how you tied it to gender conformity.
Also, when Buffy said that Debbie was already broken... yikes. Buffy, you've been talking to her for 5 minutes, it's going to take longer than that. She just needed more time.
@@leahwalko145 💙🙌🏼
Sometimes 5 min is all u need
she's saying it's not willow and buffy who broke her with interrogation, it's pete's years of abuse and finally cracking under pressure. she also didn't use broken to mean "beyond help", just severely traumatized and not functioning enough to help them stop pete. i feel like everybody assumes the worst of buffy this episode
I think context matters here, Buffy:s remark came after Debbie completely broke down and just sat there and repeated "he does love me" over and over. That is being broken (hence broke down). Not broken beyond repair, but broken.
This is one of my least favorite episodes, but that may be because of a few reasons. 1) Season 3 is just wonderful, so I'm willing to say that this ranks low possibly because everything else is so good. 2) One of my favorite parts of Buffy is how the metaphors aren't always obvious, and this one felt really heavy-handed to me. That being said, I think the message they're trying to get across is good and important, I just think it was a little too on the nose for me.
That being said, as always, I appreciated and enjoyed your commentary on the story they were telling. I remember another reactor mentioning that this was very important for young girls at the time to see, to maybe recognize if they're in a similar situation, to be able to identify it and hopefully get out of it. And I tend to forget that kind of impact it can have when it IS heavy-handed.
There’s a lot to unpack about Xander-Cordelia that hasn’t been talked about, and we’ll have to wait some episodes before we can.
I'm not @-ing you at all, but men and women are physiologically different. It has nothing to do with how they're raised or how much they eat. Men generally have higher testosterone levels and that promotes more muscle bulk. All else being equal, men are physically stronger than women and that, among other things, has historically led the genders to adopting different roles. Evolution has rewarded different attitudes and instincts towards sex because the consequences and evolutionary rewards of sex and child rearing are very different between the genders. Now beyond that, there is a lot of societal construct that has been built up over thousands of years around these root cause biological / instinctual differences that isn't always helpful. We're higher minded beings and we can choose to dismantle these constructs and make different choices other than blindly obeying instinct. But I think we ought to be cognizant that "woke" thought is also a societal construct. We like the idea of equality. There's an aspect of fairness to it that appeals to our ideals. I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone equality is a bad thing - I don't believe that, but I think we like the idea of it so much that we try to impose it in areas where... we're really just arguing with science and reality. Our world wasn't created to our ideals. I think many men are confused and angry today because they're constantly being told their genetics and instincts are morally wrong... and that's coupled with the value of physical strength to society diminishing over time. I don't have any brilliant cure-all solution to any of this, but I think there's still benefit in identifying root causes of a lot of the current political / media tension.
ETA: I'm not addressing the domestic abuse issue raised in this episode at all. This is just in response to some of the commentary.
"I think many men are confused and angry today because they're constantly being told their genetics and instincts are morally wrong" - But that's the thing though, those things that are wrong isn't genetics nor instincts, they are thought to them by society. The things that Tyler describes (aka toxic masculinity) isn't something that you are born with in your genes, they are given to you by the society that you live in.
The alpha male grifters however are constantly telling these boys that it is their genetics and their instincts that the "woke" people are hating, because that sells the idea that "nothing that you do is wrong and not only can you not help it, but you cannot change it either since it is in your nature".
Also yes men are stronger than women on average, but not on an individual level.
I appreciate Tyler saying that gender roles are hugely influenced by social constructs. But I don't think that is the total story. The foundation is laid by genetics. LGTBQ people assert that they are born that way. If not, we could simply 'pray the gay away'. Estrogen and testosterone play huge roles in behavior which is why hormone replacement therapy plays such a critical role for transgender people. You can't simply take a boy a raise him to be a girl. Been tried (John Money and the Reimer twins). Didn't work. It's a delicately-balanced mix.
thank you and i agree
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
I enjoy your comments and thoughts. It’s not about agreement or rejection but your conviction of ideas and concepts. You have really taken the third level of Buffy ( first entertainment. Second social commentary, and the third that deals with the philosophy of actions and the meaning of Western Culture) Your narratives bring a viewpoint that is non American Middle Class values . What discussion about Buffy should be but often is not. My experience with this excellent episode will be different and have a different conclusion . My Buffy group was all girls my age and me being the only boy. The core 8 I was closest with were all self confident, intelligent, and very attractive. They had sympathy for Debbie but overall thought she was weak and a victim. They were like Buffy, help her but never could be her. They all felt sad she died but all felt it was her own doing for being with a bum. Over our High School years they thought me about girls . They showed me how they controlled the relationships and the boys . All have gone on to be succesful in life. I stay in touch with my Buffy group and they have told me over the years that they enjoy being women. They all love being around men that look down on women. Misogynistic men are the easiest for them to defeat in the courtroom, the boardroom, and in life. It’s very simple to triumph over stupidity. They now love to face Woke men and women. They tell me they are even easier to defeat. I have learned that anyone bound by any societal value system not based on universal values of morality and consistent ethical outcomes are flawed . That was a lesson we learned and accepted together. Be neither a victim or conquerer. The lesson we learned from this episode was you should try to stop violence but you can’t save people that refuse to save themselves. When you learn life guarding , one of the first lessons is to never try to save a drowning person yourself. It was reach, row, throw ,and then go. A drowning person will drown you and then themselves.it does not mean do nothing but understand the dynamic. Abusive boyfriends are horrific and should be punished severely. My girlfriends agree but they often say the key is teaching the girls to not be victims. The males that hit are full of anger and evil intent. That has nothing to do with popular culture, movies shows etc. , that is a lack of parenting teaching values . The anger of violence is there and it’s not just gender. It’s the absence of empathy, compassion, morality, and genuine respect of the individual right to freedom. So much of Buffy can be traced back to her journey and lessons about morals and ethics in Season 2. This episode shows the void created with selfishness mixed with anger. How really different is this toxic relationship to the one between the student and teacher in I Only Have Eyes For You? Keep up the great reactions and commentary. Looking forward to your next Opus.
Xander: Which half? Is that really up to him? This just seems an extention of Buffy telling him their reklationship isn't up to him. Tyler is incredibly right about what he said and how he said it, and while _Twilight_ opened people's eyes to certain behavior, I feel society still sometimes has a ways to go. But I also feel that is what this episode was getting at while people like Xander and Joss Whedon still don't get it because "it was a joke," or "[Xander's] in high school," and "they didn't mean it." It's no reason to put on Edward Cullen-like behavior, even before the _Twilight_ book came out.
xander immediately going to sleep when watching oz is one of his worst moments and i never see enough outrage for it from the fandom. at least giles gets me 💆♀
I hate the way Buffy talks to the IPV victim, but it seems to be how she views herself.
The way being a slayer makes her cold towards humanity is explored throughout the show. She wasn’t called to be anything other than a killer of monsters. She often has to compartmentalize her human side in order to embrace the demon energy infused in her to defeat demons.
It's always been an above average episode, which makes it pretty stellar on the scale of "monster of the week" episodes. Interesting that you called him "Red Hulk" and not "Mr. Hyde".
I love your talks on the deeper meanings behind the show, and how it's always been a progressive show, and how times have changed from then to now. But you're a bit off the rails if you're suggesting that letting girls play sports is going to have any kind of nurture change to compare to physiological differences in the sexes.
One other thing to point out is that Buffy's viewpoint is that of victim-blaming even though she accepts that Pete is the monster. She has no patience for the trauma "because people are dying" which, while a valid sense of priorities, doesn't excuse the judgemental approach rather than biting her tongue and going with a PRODUCTIVE approach. Check your attitude at the door Buffy, people are dying.
I agree that Buffy’s treatment of Debbie is problematic. I think another consideration is that while Buffy is our “hero” who usually says and does what’s right, she’s still just a teenager with limited perspective and experience of the world. Which does not excuse it, but she likely has a very simplistic/naive view of this type of situation. “Why doesn’t she just leave?” is a question even adults ask, not understanding the nuances involved. I also think there’s some projection happening, just like with James in “I Only Have Eyes For You.” Like Debbie, Buffy was also in a relationship that turned abusive and blamed herself for being the reason that Angel turned into Angelus. I just wish the show could have connected those dots for Buffy & the audience like they did in season 2.
@@ashleydickie5859 Oh to be sure, she has far more of an excuse than many of the healthcare professionals I've seen with the same attitude, but she's still got a bad case of "seeing the problem, not the human".
And yes, she's projecting too.
@@Ylyrra definitely, I’m glad Debbie got more empathy from Oz and Willow at least
Very good acting on Angels part, acting the feral animal. Top notch.
Wow, I just saw the part about POC on screen with graphic injuries vs white people hidden away. Now I will keep finding it, damn. It makes a lot of sense though, bc of colonialism. 💔
This episode really spoke to me when I was younger and I couldn’t even understand why back then. I knew abuse was bad but was too young to understand what it really looked like in real life. Overall, a powerful episode for sure.
Hahahah - okay amazing. I actually don’t watch your Buffy content but I was doing dishes and this video auto played (watched your Hill House).
I hate Buffy and I’m an old enough nerd that there was a time in my 20s ALL my friend groups were watching Buffy. Buffy was playing in the background of a million evenings with people I otherwise shared nerdoms with.
I hated it then - I talked mad smack about it in a world before these conversations were normal.
While I enjoy Firefly (another Joss Whedon) I have problems with the shit he pulls gender wise there too. It’s no wonder that eventually this absolute POS was outed as a terrible person. These characters never felt “real” to me / they felt like the Scooby doo gang written by a wounded little boy who hated women.
Just 2 min in and I am almost ready to let this play in the background just to shout “RIGHT?!” Into the middle distance 20 years later.
Thanks for picking at the banaids a little.
Hating a show on a Buffy video . Manage your mind better lad
Hu?
I’m commenting in a comment section.
I was thanking Tyler for his commentary because it speaks to the inner thoughts I’ve had on Buffy for decades.
Manage my mind?
Holy shit old man.
Rereading I sound harsher then I meant to.
I’m simply reacting to your spice at my comment and was trying to add humor.
For example, you probably aren’t an “old man” but assuming gender was your game first.
I’m a 48 year old cis woman who isn’t usually called “Lad”.
Carry on.
Sorry but that was a very strange way of looking at this. Am I reading you right in that you interpret Joss of having written this to depict Debbie:s and Pete:s relasionship as something positive to to strive for? (btw the episode was also not written by Joss at all but by Marti Noxon).
I kinda disagree with what you said about the differences in men and women. Different chromosomes, brain structures, bone density, gender characteristics, etc.. These things matters and could prove not all things men can do women can. There’s a reason why women don’t take on a lot of jobs that only men takes like iron workers
@@frisc0pn0ib0i you don't disagree you're just talking about a different subject, respectfully. Biology and the different ways people are born physically is not the same as gender. These are two different conversations.
@@TylerAlexander it’s relevant though. Whether it’s work or sports… it all boils down to biology and the capability of both sexes.
@@frisc0pn0ib0i I'm not saying it's irrelevant. But it's not as relevant as you seem to think it is as applied to this specific episode. I'm not talking about these topics in a vacuum, I'm talking about them because they are things in the episode I'm watching that directly influence the flow of events and the story happening on screen.
What you're doing is widening the conversation arbitrarily because I mentioned gender, but the only reason I spoke on gender was because the things happening in the episode very specifically stem from gender as it exists in our society and how that has influenced us to get us into positions like that which we see in the episode.
The abuse pattern we see in this episode rears its head because of insecurity in a man that has stemmed from unhealthy and harmful GENDER NORMS. Which is why I focus on gender. Just because there might be additional things you could add to the conversation that I didn't in this particular instance doesn't mean that I'm saying they're not relevant as a whole, but no they're not necessarily relevant in the context of this episode.
I admit I love your commentary when it is about the show and I think your reactions are pretty adorbs. But the more social purposed sexual ideals and gender roles as well as most other things that don't to me deal with the show itself are just boring. Why is it needed? They are obviously wonderful char's and fun to watch. Logical discourse about the show and it's social/political/sexual ideology might be better suited to a show that isn't fantasy and playfully driven. Having said that, I can't really disagree more about how men socially interact with woman on a larger scale and most of it having to do with how our brains are wired as show by science. Sorry if my comment is a bit long and blah blah, just sayin...
All of my commentary is only ever centred on the episodes I watch and whatever is in any given episode. Is any of my commentary 'needed', whether social commentary, political, or simply regarding the story, writing, acting, or whatever else? Not really. I choose to do this the same as anyone else who has an interest chooses to do whatever it is that interests them. I find it fun.
What you're asking is for me to be selective in my commentary because...well, only you can answer that question. I don't mean this as any kind of attack, and I mean it as gently as possible, but it seems to me as if my comments about a particular subject made you uncomfortable, or bored you specifically. That's not anything to do with me. Equally there are going to be those that are interested in the things you've identified as boring.
Gender exists, it's something that influences us, how we live, how we function in society, and I saw those touches very deeply in this episode and so I took the time to comment on it just like I do anything else. If I start to omit parts of my commentary I might as well not do it.
Buffy is fantasy of course but it's also deeply in touch with the human condition, with trauma, with heartache, with (in this case) abuse, and is irrevocably tied to humanity. As playful as the show might be at times it's equally laced with heavy themes. For me to ignore all of that would be akin to me ignoring half of the show and, to me, that's why it's needed.
One of the worst episodes in the series. What a miss.