I run a traditional pot still with a thumper and make Burbon. Putting fermented grains in the thumper does get the alcohol out of grains and gives you more of that grain flavor. Just don’t fill up more than halfway because the thumper can then also puke.
Jess, I hate to jinx it for you but...... The lack of redundant newbie questions in the comments is a clear indicator that people who know, associate with people who know. It is a clear indicator of your growing expertise, that you draw knowlegable folks for a community experience! ...And what a great community we are! ~ Cheers m8 !!! ~
I started about 10 years ago when I moved to Killeen TX. and I use to get all my grains from Barley and Hops Brewing Co. I literally left a pad and pen in the car to take down info that George would tell me. The guy is like a library, waiting for people to just ask. Since I stopped for about 6 years I recently started back and had to learn and re-learn all the information, your videos have been a life saver. Thank you so much.
I have a 3 in 1 design which lets me mash-in on-grain, ferment on-grain, and distill on-grain all in one device with absolutely no scorching. It works on the same double boiler principle as a Bain-Marie. There is a main boiler pot with clamp down lid with tri-clamp connection for the column. The removable inner pot contains the mash and the outer boiler pot contains water. A 220v element heats the boiler water which transfers heat to the inner mash pot. Since there is no heater element contact with the mash, there is no scorching. Because of its unique design, there is no need for three separate pieces of equipment: mash tun, fermenter, and still. This system is simple and extremely effective, additionally, it simplifies things by combining the three functions into one. This also saves space and money. The only drawback I've found is it takes longer to get to distillation temperature since there are two volumes of liquid to heat. I use a PID controller which keeps close temperature tolerances. It does well for both a pot still and as a reflux column. Works great! P.S. Before my 3n1, I tried all sorts of filters, bags, mesh pots, and false bottoms with mixed success. To me they are Band-Aid solutions with marginal improvements. I found no matter how well you filter the mash, the heater element always accumulates the finest particles on it and this causes bad taste issues.
interesting. i like making things so i was planning to make a boiler out of a crab boil pot and use some cloth in the basket to keep the "grain" off the bottom. i can see why that might not work from your description, but if i find a pot the same size as the basket, i should be able to do a double boiler system like yours! very interesting.
Another way to do this is using a brewing system that can turn into a still by buying a lid and adapt a column to it like Brewzilla or Grainfather. These systems have the inside mashing tube or cylinder with a straining bottom which is meant to keep the grains inside and on top of the heating bottom while mashing and then rise it up to strain the liquid. So instead of straining and taking out the grains you could let them in, ferment in the pot and then just attach the lid and the column and run it. You don't have to leave all the grain in so you make it a bit less dense for heat and steam to go through it but the idea is that the inner cylinder makes the configuration somewhat similar to a jacketed system.
Yes burning is a bummer. Years ago my mom would make milk based puddings with a stove top double boiler. Water in between, temps never above 100C, uniform heat distribution. Pot within pot separated by water is prob the safest for the brew and least expensive. Great episode man!
@Jesse, One area you did not delve into which does impact is the element itself. Many of us are committed to the kit we have and don’t have too much wiggle room to change where as you said jacketed and vessels with an auger are a big jump. Something to look into is the watt density of the element. The one on your vid is probably 2000w there about. I found a company here that makes elements and had the put together a ultra low watt density element for me, and it was not that expensive to do. Instead of putting 2k watts into one loop mine is spread over 3 loops. I’m putting the same power into the pot where the heat is spread over the 3 loops instead of the one therefore each loop does not get as hot and mitigates scorching. I’ll post a pic on the FB group as I can’t do it here to visually show it.
I love this video and have watched it multiple times. I am however waiting to watch your production of using a thumper. My first still was fabricated out of a sheet of copper which also made the thumper that I sized for the boiler. So I have been using a thumper since 2019. Keep up the good work and I will keep waiting for you to use a thumper.
I know this is an older video but man..I've always liked your videos and your comedic approach of your learnings. This video Jesse has been your best IMHO! You said to the world what I've been saying to my area for years teaching about the untruths about H.D.
So an option you didn't consider is what some people have used in the homebrew community in Rims systems where scorching is a major risk. That is low watt density flat heating tape wrapped around the outside of the vessel replacing a conventional element. If you was really worried you could also use a plate stirrer at the same time. The main issue with this is heating time but a timer and thermostat can get around that problem quite easily avoiding the need to get out of but at 4am. As for expense it's not as cheap as a false bottom or spider but it is cheap compared to a oil/steam jacketed vessel. If anyone reading this interested then HTSamptek make the sort of tapes that I was thinking of.
I've seen some band heaters sized specifically for beer keg stills. I've been considering something like that plus a low speed motor and an agitator to keep the wash moving. Still looking for exactly the parts I want because it needs to be easily disassembled and cleaned.
Many ways to use a thumper! I have one boiler/thumper combination that uses a 50L keg as the boiler and a 60L keg as the thumper. I put plain water in the boiler and uncleared grain or fruit wash in the thumper for a steam distillation process. The input pipe comes from the top of the boiler and enters the thumper near the bottom of the keg. The input tube running horizontal to the bottom of the thumper keg gives more area for holes and better distribution of steam. I use the same precautions I would use for any thumper setup - plenty of head space and a way to relieve vacuum on the boiler side.
Put a basic pot still in a slightly larger barrel on spacers to allow oil to flow under and around then cut out a lid to make a custom fit. Then plumb outer barrel same as a shotgun condenser , in bottom & gravity return"out at top. You will then need a pump for hot oil and a small home fryolator to regulate and maintain heat . Ez pz I wanted to do this with a sous vide, but it max out @`195f or°90c . So I have to go as described above.
All good stuff and I know that there are a few other approaches to this but I wanted to share my method. I'm fermenting on grain (mostly corn) and I don't want to deal with the volume or the mess of squeezing out 70# of wet mash. I let the mash settle after it ferments (it generally does this fine on its own but as it slows at the very end I give it a gentle stir and add a little bit of hydrated bentonite to help it settle firmly as it finishes, degasses, and clears). I rack off the clear portion and do a a strip run. Out of this ferment size I will have enough for a decent still charge plus usually a bit more. The next step will be a spirit run. I'll then dump in another 10 gal of water or even the spent backset back into the settled grain mass. This will settle again easily overnight. I'll then take the low wines from the strip run, previous feints, any remaining liquid from the first fermentation racking, and then draw off enough of the clear liquid settled in the fermenter to make a complete still charge. This gets run as a spirit run with some reflux applied (my column is more or less like a long'ish shotgun condenser, but maybe with bigger tubes - it's actually a repurposed tube and shell heat exchanger that happens to do the job quite neatly but less efficiently than most packed designs). That takes care of most of the cleared liquid in the fermenter and the 2nd racking/draw is low enough in alcohol that I don't figure it to be worthwhile to repeat. I can make another batch more easily than trying to run more out of this, imo. To be sure, I think I'd get better recovery out of putting it into a thumper, but nearly 1/2 a 55 gal drum of soggy mash is way more than one batch and would probably make for a very long run. I also think I'd get better yield if I could adequately drain some liquid and I may have to try some sort of drain or sparge type step, but again, the handling vs the gain just seems to be more trouble, time, and mess than just starting up another ferment. Probably not good economy but this is a hobby, not a business, right?
my buddies grandad who as far as i know still makes his own spirits both for leaning and drinking and hes got double boiler still older then any of us.... his grandad made it... works great for grain and chunky stuff never scorches...
I have one of the mixed mashing+distilling setups which has a false bottom (it does not sit on a ridge but the lower part of the pot is slightly tapered so the false bottom cannot slide down to the actual bottom). The false bottom has fairly large holes in it though - and because of that I use a bag above it to hold all the chunkies in. It works well this way.
Fantastic video as always! I'm actually planning on using my thumper for this exact reason tomorrow! I've just made a mixed fruit wine while I'll distill when I'm free in the morning, I skimmed the fruit off the top of the ferment toward the end and froze it, then racked all the sediment out and froze that too.. My plan is to boil off the fores and heads, switch off the still, add the thumper and half fill with the wash and frozen fruit. I'll take it right to 0% and add the heads and tails to a Demi John with some "reject mead" (didn't age well) and other heads & tails, ready to.distill that, then the stuff in the boiler and the frozen sediment is going into a bucket with some inverted sugar and fresh fruit, similar to a sour mash brandy, I suppose.. fingers crossed for gen 2 🤞🏻
Super informative video. I think it would be important to pay attention to the grind of grains when doing this. Might notvuse a blender to make flour and think a screen will work. .just a word to the wise
Hi I use a 30lt temp controlled kettle/ tea urn to cook my grain in a brain bag to make my wash to stop it touching the bottom I made a false bottom out of stainless Steel threaded bar and a stainless steel 2mm plate with loads of hole's it works great and when it's finished I can purge and squeeze the left over grain before I even remove it works perfectly
Me too! I've done fruit juice brandys before but because you need to bump up the gravity they always sugary and hot to drink. Also keep getting a bitter aftertaste. Not sure why
Years ago when I was starting to get into distilling (like almost 20 years ago) before a house fire (not due to the still), what you call a "thumper" was called, at least by the guys at the distilling place I was annoying at the time, a "double boiler". I was only very, very early in my journey at the time, using a 10L pressure cooker that I converted as a still and only just starting to cut the heads, hearts and tails and only using dextrose, but was working on making a pot still, with copper sheet, and gathering recipes and knowledge to start making spirits from raw ingredients. My first was going to be a potato vodka, because of the easy access to the raw ingredients, but then moving onto grains. I've decided to start again, just brewing a mead for now, planning to be ready by Christmas and then maybe doing a cider (Not really big on beer), but I do want to get into distilling again. Brewing and by extension, distilling is a very fuzzy line between science and art that really speaks to me. "If I add an extra 10% of this, what difference will that make to the end result". And you can really get down in the weeds and consider the effect of early and late season crops on the end result. I really have missed it all these years.
oak stills has a good 2" rotator for the typical can still/flute still. This works great for on the grain brewing as well as other neat/cool add on's downside is it comes from china.
Got another idea. Not exactly fuel efficient. Secure the milk bottle suspended into a wash tub. Fill the wash tub with water. Heat, temperature will be steady @ 212 degrees if at sea level. Heating will surround the milk jug.
I'm here in the states and saw the TV show that comes on here.....Moonshiners.....two guys distilled spirts from "milk"....wondered if it was just tv or real and as good as they said it was.....look into trying it...I have only been watching you for a few months.....you have a great channel going on sir....keep up the good work...
Thanks, Jesse, for a well-presented topic. Except for grappa, I never put solids in my kettle, even for Bourbon. I don’t ferment on grain, either. Folks have been making Scotch whiskey from wort (liquid strained from grain after mashing) for centuries. Without an agitator, a mash will clump up into a solid mass even if it doesn’t burn, and I doubt much flavor or extra alcohol gets extracted. At hobby scale, the simplest path is to separate the wash and charge the still with liquid. Just my opinion.
Very informative!!.... Thank you again!!!!..... I think you do need to try incorporating a thumper in the near future.... I have one and it adds a little variety to my distillation if I need it...... Besides...... Meme spirits with a thumper theme sounds like an awesome concept....... Keep up the craft!!!!
I built my still with the immersion heater halfway in height. Sediment drops down and never comes in contact. Obviously temperature disperses throughout the mash 😉
Doctor Gradus has the false bottom with the legs (like your bain marie) for maceration. Would hold the grain higher than straight false bottom. Just need to be careful how much grain you place on top of it. Unfortunately with world events, it's a challenge/expensive to get equipment from these guys depending where you live. Hopeful that will change soon.
Why not use a malt pipe as used in the Brewzilla and Digiboil 35L boilers. These are the same diameter as the Still Spirits 35L boiler. They also have an extension addon for the boiler adding another 12L capacity along with an extended malt pipe. They also have a perforated plate to keep solids off the bottom. All in stainless steel.
I think that you should really use a thumper for your experience :) it is a very traditional piece of equipment. Also it is the easier way (i think) for a home distiller to distill on grain IMHO!
I have a question that I don't think has been addressed. I've read that it is important to separate as much of the yeast as possible from the wash to avoid off flavors from the yeast bursting during the distilling process. When distilling on the grain, I think it would be pretty difficult to separate the yeast. How do distillers get around this or is this not really an issue?
Jesse, how did it possibly take you this long to decide that you needed to try using a thumper? Great video! You touched all the bases with distilling on grain. CUDOS!
Jesse has said before that thumpers make him nervous because you're essentially making a potentially closed system. I'd really want to see some math detailing the density of the material in the thumper to the ability of the still to push through it. I suppose a pressure relief valve piped to a location well enough away from the still (if you're using flame heat) so as not to cause an explosion/fire would mitigate some of that concern. Personally I don't think I'd use flame to heat a still under any conditions, but I know some have done it forever and managed not to burn down their house/garage/shed.
How do you deal with methanol and H2S from the thumper? Would you have the thumper connected and filled from the start and collect slightly more foreshore? Thanks in advance
Would adding a hop spider style device over the direct contact element work? Installing the spider over the element before it fills the boiler with mash.? Maybe making it removable.
I am not someone who has distilled on the grain, but I am a man who has designed and built bioreactors. Can't you put better feedback control on the elements so they never go above 110-120C and then nothing can burn. I used to control the systems to 0.1C accuracy, so 10C accuracy seems trivial a bimetallic strip should do that.
If you're not really trying to distill more alcohol from the grain solids and instead just looking to impart or enhance the flavors is a 'gin basket' (or multiple gin baskets) a suitable option? Sure they increase the size and complexity of the still overall, but would they serve the purpose? I'm interested because such a set up would allow you to distill both on 'grain' as well as impart any other flavor from solids that you might want to experiment with. How does this affect the final distillate? Or is a gin basket basically just a thumper? Forgive me if this is obviously a stupid comment...I'm just now starting to get into distilling and brewing and probably read way more than is good for me at this stage of my interest and ability.
Would you do some infusion videos for us in the USA who can't have a still i have easy access to 95% everclear at any store that sells beer almost. I haven't found to many videos that use more then fruits or marijauna so please and thank you
Manscaped trimmer is really good. I don't like the crop preserver or ball deodorant though.. it has fragrance I don't like and alcohol and other ingredients I don't want on my stick and berries
So I'm doing a pear brandy hypothetically if I am using a brew bag during fermentation,,, say I pull this bag when I think it's done its job in the fermentation bucket ,, then say I freeze it and save it till hypothetical distillation and put it in a elevated stand pot ,,, think it would contribute to flavors carrying over ,,, thoughts ???? And yes I used pectin enzymes and of course I mean just using the contents of the bag lol not the nylon bag itself lololol cuz I know someone is gonna say it lol
A way I use most often; Is to ferment without brew bag. Then when ready, I line fruit press with pressing bag and add mushy stuff and let drain naturally. Then flush with very hot water (I ferment at higher ABV than final product's ABV. For example: Fermented fruit wine at 15% diluted with 25% hot water to get ~12% ABV), then I press it out slowly ( I have had bag explode from going too fast). I prefer this method as this is an easier way to get a cleaner product and faster set up clean-up also. Both ways give a very good result without the worry.
Question/observation...would it be of any benefit to do a stripping run with the strained liquid and then put strain it back through the grain before the finishing run?
weld 2 stainless steel colanders (mesh not holes) together with a stainless steel hinge and a clasp like an old skool tea infuser, fill with your chunks of preference and good to go
Ive been thinking about building one of them pots with the stainless rods to go inside and put apples or peaches in it on spirit runs have you tried this? Thoughts?
As you need to ferment on grain with Angel Yellow Yeast, would the BIAB method be the cleanest option when it comes to racking, and, do you foresee any issues with Angel Yellow Yeast working within a BIAB environment?
You have to bypass the gin basket initially to the point that the methanol is gone in order to not have that strip the grain - essences off. Most baskets hold limited volume of material IMHO
Maybe "should" instead of " "have to"..... but when I did two back to back gin runs, 1st. w/o bypass and 2nd w/bypass totally different intensity of essence flavors came thru. In fairness, most gin essences are pretty robust. If you were doing the light and subtle "botanocal" gins with Oris root etc you def need to bypass
Hi Jesse I've been a long time fan . And have watched many of your video. But I'm haveing a big problem maybe you or your views can help me with. I've been trying to do a all corn mash. I'm useing deer feed ,not sweet feed just strait corn. Now I know you need amylase to convert the starches. I'm useing ld carlson amylase. But I can't get the starch to convert. I've ground the corn and have done 2 batches. And have. Gotten my mash to gell but I can't get it to convert. I've tried 2 times on 2 different batches one I've pitched the amylase at 150 F and at 140 F . But no conversation. What am I doing wrong ? The ld carlson amylase doesn't say way temp to add it at.
boil the bejesus out of your corn - then let it cool down and add your amalyse. You need to gelatanise the starch for the amalyse to work more effectively. Longer you can keep the temps up high, the better your conversion will be.
I trained as a Chef and one of the ways we did for slow cooking, pre all the computerisation, we did a bain marie, would that work for distilling on the grain? Putting the still in a bigger pot filled with water? EDIT: I guess I should leave all questions till the end... :)
Just make sure whatever you use, don't have chunky stuff and a head system that can plug (strainer packs, reflux, bubble plates, etc). They can plug if the device 'pukes' and then the risks range from scalding to shrapnel. You don't want to explain how you achieved your wounds to the emergency room staff nor the spouse. Plus recovery time means no more hobby activities. Be very careful.
I just tried this two days ago and I couldn’t get enough heat transfer to run my reflux still. It would work using ethylene glycol or oil as that temp gets much higher than water boiling heat transfer. I don’t want to put those other substances in my expensive pot. I need to elevate the grains in a bag perhaps. I’ll think on it.
according to some of the comments yes, but it would take much longer than normal. you might want to look into something to raise the boiling temperature at a reasonable price. salt, sugar, used antifreeze, that kind of thing. and as the comment above said consider doing a pot still distillation with the "water jacket" and then distilling that stripping run with a reflux because you would not be concerned about burning a once distilled liquid.
@@StillIt More like something to surround the element. Unless the element is at the bottom under the still then yes a false bottom. Like the first element you showed that would be in the still wrap it in a metal mesh that would make sure it doesn't touch anything that can burn.
That is what my friend does, he has a copper pot still that he build (probably about 30 liters) and puts in a giant aluminum pot full of peanut oil over a gas burner. Works nicely for him.
Another riveting piece Jesse. I have been thinking about traditional whiskey making and lately am playing with rye. So far, I am lautering before the ferment but really want to carry the grain further along. I read up on George Washington's recipe which they produce and sell at Mt. Vernon. There are a number of youtube videos by the staff on the process - very interesting (e.g. th-cam.com/video/ncGsjTRQJPw/w-d-xo.html ) One thing that always puzzled me is how on earth did they (or any moonshiner) deal with a direct fire under a copper still without scorching? I mean, look at the soup they pour into the still! Seems impossible, doesn't it?
I’m scared of THUMPERS But… I really want to learn to use one safely I know if you don’t release the pressure they can implode your still. Gosh, I really want that extra flavor by “shooting the thumper”!
There are vacuum release valves you can buy to install on the boiler side. Or, just like you don't plug in an electric boiler without first filling it with liquid, you don't shut it down with a thumper attached without opening the boiler to the atmosphere. I just remove the boiler's fill port plug when I'm ready to shutdown.
Please reconsider some of the advice you have given in this video. There was a case of a user on homedistiller who had an actual fire in the still under the false bottom....Yes I know it's hard to believe you can have a fire under "water", but it happened. I think you are a member their so if you have any questions you can contact them, search for "Fire in boiler" or user "Scorpster". They can supply you with an explanation of what the conditions were and pics to show the results. Until you have clarity I strongly suggest you take this video down until you understand what can happen.
I run a traditional pot still with a thumper and make Burbon. Putting fermented grains in the thumper does get the alcohol out of grains and gives you more of that grain flavor. Just don’t fill up more than halfway because the thumper can then also puke.
Jess, I hate to jinx it for you but......
The lack of redundant newbie questions in the comments is a clear indicator that people who know, associate with people who know.
It is a clear indicator of your growing expertise, that you draw knowlegable folks for a community experience!
...And what a great community we are!
~ Cheers m8 !!! ~
Agreed!
I started about 10 years ago when I moved to Killeen TX. and I use to get all my grains from Barley and Hops Brewing Co. I literally left a pad and pen in the car to take down info that George would tell me. The guy is like a library, waiting for people to just ask.
Since I stopped for about 6 years I recently started back and had to learn and re-learn all the information, your videos have been a life saver. Thank you so much.
Thought we couldn't distill in TX? Or is that just spirits only?
@@dj_cam HEY MAN! Lol. I was cleaning water.
George’s the OG of Texas distillery. I purchased my grains form Amazon.
First the Beard, then Fermenting on Grain, now there's talk of a Thumper......I knew it was only a matter of time Jesse.
:))))
I have a 3 in 1 design which lets me mash-in on-grain, ferment on-grain, and distill on-grain all in one device with absolutely no scorching. It works on the same double boiler principle as a Bain-Marie. There is a main boiler pot with clamp down lid with tri-clamp connection for the column. The removable inner pot contains the mash and the outer boiler pot contains water. A 220v element heats the boiler water which transfers heat to the inner mash pot. Since there is no heater element contact with the mash, there is no scorching. Because of its unique design, there is no need for three separate pieces of equipment: mash tun, fermenter, and still. This system is simple and extremely effective, additionally, it simplifies things by combining the three functions into one. This also saves space and money.
The only drawback I've found is it takes longer to get to distillation temperature since there are two volumes of liquid to heat.
I use a PID controller which keeps close temperature tolerances. It does well for both a pot still and as a reflux column. Works great!
P.S. Before my 3n1, I tried all sorts of filters, bags, mesh pots, and false bottoms with mixed success. To me they are Band-Aid solutions with marginal improvements. I found no matter how well you filter the mash, the heater element always accumulates the finest particles on it and this causes bad taste issues.
Where can I find pictures?
interesting. i like making things so i was planning to make a boiler out of a crab boil pot and use some cloth in the basket to keep the "grain" off the bottom. i can see why that might not work from your description, but if i find a pot the same size as the basket, i should be able to do a double boiler system like yours! very interesting.
It takes a lot of effort and is pretty much impossible to filter the mash to the point where it won't scorch when heating with an electric element.
And you could put some kind of insulating “jacket“ around the heater tub. Such as some house insulation with paper backing or something similar.
@@tonytango6676 My boiler has a neoprene jacket which greatly helps retain heat.
Another way to do this is using a brewing system that can turn into a still by buying a lid and adapt a column to it like Brewzilla or Grainfather. These systems have the inside mashing tube or cylinder with a straining bottom which is meant to keep the grains inside and on top of the heating bottom while mashing and then rise it up to strain the liquid. So instead of straining and taking out the grains you could let them in, ferment in the pot and then just attach the lid and the column and run it. You don't have to leave all the grain in so you make it a bit less dense for heat and steam to go through it but the idea is that the inner cylinder makes the configuration somewhat similar to a jacketed system.
Yes burning is a bummer. Years ago my mom would make milk based puddings with a stove top double boiler. Water in between, temps never above 100C, uniform heat distribution. Pot within pot separated by water is prob the safest for the brew and least expensive. Great episode man!
@Jesse, One area you did not delve into which does impact is the element itself. Many of us are committed to the kit we have and don’t have too much wiggle room to change where as you said jacketed and vessels with an auger are a big jump. Something to look into is the watt density of the element. The one on your vid is probably 2000w there about. I found a company here that makes elements and had the put together a ultra low watt density element for me, and it was not that expensive to do. Instead of putting 2k watts into one loop mine is spread over 3 loops. I’m putting the same power into the pot where the heat is spread over the 3 loops instead of the one therefore each loop does not get as hot and mitigates scorching. I’ll post a pic on the FB group as I can’t do it here to visually show it.
I love this video and have watched it multiple times. I am however waiting to watch your production of using a thumper. My first still was fabricated out of a sheet of copper which also made the thumper that I sized for the boiler. So I have been using a thumper since 2019. Keep up the good work and I will keep waiting for you to use a thumper.
I know this is an older video but man..I've always liked your videos and your comedic approach of your learnings.
This video Jesse has been your best IMHO!
You said to the world what I've been saying to my area for years teaching about the untruths about H.D.
So an option you didn't consider is what some people have used in the homebrew community in Rims systems where scorching is a major risk. That is low watt density flat heating tape wrapped around the outside of the vessel replacing a conventional element. If you was really worried you could also use a plate stirrer at the same time. The main issue with this is heating time but a timer and thermostat can get around that problem quite easily avoiding the need to get out of but at 4am. As for expense it's not as cheap as a false bottom or spider but it is cheap compared to a oil/steam jacketed vessel. If anyone reading this interested then HTSamptek make the sort of tapes that I was thinking of.
I've seen some band heaters sized specifically for beer keg stills. I've been considering something like that plus a low speed motor and an agitator to keep the wash moving. Still looking for exactly the parts I want because it needs to be easily disassembled and cleaned.
Many ways to use a thumper! I have one boiler/thumper combination that uses a 50L keg as the boiler and a 60L keg as the thumper. I put plain water in the boiler and uncleared grain or fruit wash in the thumper for a steam distillation process. The input pipe comes from the top of the boiler and enters the thumper near the bottom of the keg. The input tube running horizontal to the bottom of the thumper keg gives more area for holes and better distribution of steam. I use the same precautions I would use for any thumper setup - plenty of head space and a way to relieve vacuum on the boiler side.
Put a basic pot still in a slightly larger barrel on spacers to allow oil to flow under and around then cut out a lid to make a custom fit. Then plumb outer barrel same as a shotgun condenser , in bottom & gravity return"out at top. You will then need a pump for hot oil and a small home fryolator to regulate and maintain heat . Ez pz
I wanted to do this with a sous vide, but it max out @`195f or°90c . So I have to go as described above.
Thank you Jesse I’m going to use the mop bucket method. This weekend I am making my first Rye Whisky. Just FYI I am buying a new mop bucket. 💯🥃🥃
All good stuff and I know that there are a few other approaches to this but I wanted to share my method.
I'm fermenting on grain (mostly corn) and I don't want to deal with the volume or the mess of squeezing out 70# of wet mash. I let the mash settle after it ferments (it generally does this fine on its own but as it slows at the very end I give it a gentle stir and add a little bit of hydrated bentonite to help it settle firmly as it finishes, degasses, and clears). I rack off the clear portion and do a a strip run. Out of this ferment size I will have enough for a decent still charge plus usually a bit more. The next step will be a spirit run. I'll then dump in another 10 gal of water or even the spent backset back into the settled grain mass. This will settle again easily overnight.
I'll then take the low wines from the strip run, previous feints, any remaining liquid from the first fermentation racking, and then draw off enough of the clear liquid settled in the fermenter to make a complete still charge. This gets run as a spirit run with some reflux applied (my column is more or less like a long'ish shotgun condenser, but maybe with bigger tubes - it's actually a repurposed tube and shell heat exchanger that happens to do the job quite neatly but less efficiently than most packed designs). That takes care of most of the cleared liquid in the fermenter and the 2nd racking/draw is low enough in alcohol that I don't figure it to be worthwhile to repeat. I can make another batch more easily than trying to run more out of this, imo.
To be sure, I think I'd get better recovery out of putting it into a thumper, but nearly 1/2 a 55 gal drum of soggy mash is way more than one batch and would probably make for a very long run. I also think I'd get better yield if I could adequately drain some liquid and I may have to try some sort of drain or sparge type step, but again, the handling vs the gain just seems to be more trouble, time, and mess than just starting up another ferment. Probably not good economy but this is a hobby, not a business, right?
my buddies grandad who as far as i know still makes his own spirits both for leaning and drinking and hes got double boiler still older then any of us.... his grandad made it... works great for grain and chunky stuff never scorches...
I'm from Israel and I really enjoy your videos
For the bag technique, a hop spider might be a good way to suspend the bag in the wash.
I have one of the mixed mashing+distilling setups which has a false bottom (it does not sit on a ridge but the lower part of the pot is slightly tapered so the false bottom cannot slide down to the actual bottom). The false bottom has fairly large holes in it though - and because of that I use a bag above it to hold all the chunkies in. It works well this way.
Hey, do you distill with the bag in? If so, what material is the bag and does it produce any off flavors?
Fantastic video as always! I'm actually planning on using my thumper for this exact reason tomorrow! I've just made a mixed fruit wine while I'll distill when I'm free in the morning, I skimmed the fruit off the top of the ferment toward the end and froze it, then racked all the sediment out and froze that too..
My plan is to boil off the fores and heads, switch off the still, add the thumper and half fill with the wash and frozen fruit. I'll take it right to 0% and add the heads and tails to a Demi John with some "reject mead" (didn't age well) and other heads & tails, ready to.distill that, then the stuff in the boiler and the frozen sediment is going into a bucket with some inverted sugar and fresh fruit, similar to a sour mash brandy, I suppose.. fingers crossed for gen 2 🤞🏻
Jesse's informational videos are like the art itself, the information is condensed from a wash of facts, fermented well, and cut for flavour 😆
Super informative video.
I think it would be important to pay attention to the grind of grains when doing this. Might notvuse a blender to make flour and think a screen will work.
.just a word to the wise
Hi I use a 30lt temp controlled kettle/ tea urn to cook my grain in a brain bag to make my wash to stop it touching the bottom I made a false bottom out of stainless Steel threaded bar and a stainless steel 2mm plate with loads of hole's it works great and when it's finished I can purge and squeeze the left over grain before I even remove it works perfectly
besides all the great content....excited when I saw the fruit press!! :D Awesome Jesse!!
Me too! I've done fruit juice brandys before but because you need to bump up the gravity they always sugary and hot to drink. Also keep getting a bitter aftertaste. Not sure why
Years ago when I was starting to get into distilling (like almost 20 years ago) before a house fire (not due to the still), what you call a "thumper" was called, at least by the guys at the distilling place I was annoying at the time, a "double boiler".
I was only very, very early in my journey at the time, using a 10L pressure cooker that I converted as a still and only just starting to cut the heads, hearts and tails and only using dextrose, but was working on making a pot still, with copper sheet, and gathering recipes and knowledge to start making spirits from raw ingredients. My first was going to be a potato vodka, because of the easy access to the raw ingredients, but then moving onto grains.
I've decided to start again, just brewing a mead for now, planning to be ready by Christmas and then maybe doing a cider (Not really big on beer), but I do want to get into distilling again.
Brewing and by extension, distilling is a very fuzzy line between science and art that really speaks to me. "If I add an extra 10% of this, what difference will that make to the end result". And you can really get down in the weeds and consider the effect of early and late season crops on the end result.
I really have missed it all these years.
Been waiting for this one!
Always love these types of episodes.
Thanks for the useful video !! I don’t care so much about meme spirits so I really appreciate this one !!
oak stills has a good 2" rotator for the typical can still/flute still. This works great for on the grain brewing as well as other neat/cool add on's downside is it comes from china.
Got another idea. Not exactly fuel efficient. Secure the milk bottle suspended into a wash tub.
Fill the wash tub with water. Heat, temperature will be steady @ 212 degrees if at sea level. Heating will surround the milk jug.
I'm here in the states and saw the TV show that comes on here.....Moonshiners.....two guys distilled spirts from "milk"....wondered if it was just tv or real and as good as they said it was.....look into trying it...I have only been watching you for a few months.....you have a great channel going on sir....keep up the good work...
There is a distillery in Tasmania(part of Australia) called Hartshawn distillery
that makes vodka from whey, sheep milk
Pretty good.
One of my local distilleries makes a milk vodka
Thanks, Jesse, for a well-presented topic. Except for grappa, I never put solids in my kettle, even for Bourbon. I don’t ferment on grain, either. Folks have been making Scotch whiskey from wort (liquid strained from grain after mashing) for centuries. Without an agitator, a mash will clump up into a solid mass even if it doesn’t burn, and I doubt much flavor or extra alcohol gets extracted. At hobby scale, the simplest path is to separate the wash and charge the still with liquid. Just my opinion.
What do you do for grappa then?
Very informative!!.... Thank you again!!!!..... I think you do need to try incorporating a thumper in the near future.... I have one and it adds a little variety to my distillation if I need it...... Besides...... Meme spirits with a thumper theme sounds like an awesome concept....... Keep up the craft!!!!
Good morning Brother, I hope you have a great day. Cheers 🥃🥃
I built my still with the immersion heater halfway in height. Sediment drops down and never comes in contact. Obviously temperature disperses throughout the mash 😉
Just got my false bottom from Doctor Gradus! Can’t wait to use it!!
Doctor Gradus has the false bottom with the legs (like your bain marie) for maceration. Would hold the grain higher than straight false bottom. Just need to be careful how much grain you place on top of it. Unfortunately with world events, it's a challenge/expensive to get equipment from these guys depending where you live. Hopeful that will change soon.
Thank you, Jesse!
Hello dear Jesse .. Please add Persian subtitles in the settings .. Thank you very much
Sorry mate how it works unfortunately :(. Google will do the auto translate as best it can. But otherwise I would need to create the titles myself.
@@StillIt It's great if you make it .. I've been watching your great videos for three years .. you are a unique human being 🤝
I put about halve way with hearts from another run and mix with whatever flavor I want but don't fill more than half
Why not use a malt pipe as used in the Brewzilla and Digiboil 35L boilers. These are the same diameter as the Still Spirits 35L boiler. They also have an extension addon for the boiler adding another 12L capacity along with an extended malt pipe. They also have a perforated plate to keep solids off the bottom. All in stainless steel.
I think that you should really use a thumper for your experience :) it is a very traditional piece of equipment. Also it is the easier way (i think) for a home distiller to distill on grain IMHO!
round cake rack keeps stuff off the bottom well
I have a question that I don't think has been addressed. I've read that it is important to separate as much of the yeast as possible from the wash to avoid off flavors from the yeast bursting during the distilling process. When distilling on the grain, I think it would be pretty difficult to separate the yeast. How do distillers get around this or is this not really an issue?
Jesse, how did it possibly take you this long to decide that you needed to try using a thumper? Great video! You touched all the bases with distilling on grain.
CUDOS!
Jesse has said before that thumpers make him nervous because you're essentially making a potentially closed system. I'd really want to see some math detailing the density of the material in the thumper to the ability of the still to push through it. I suppose a pressure relief valve piped to a location well enough away from the still (if you're using flame heat) so as not to cause an explosion/fire would mitigate some of that concern. Personally I don't think I'd use flame to heat a still under any conditions, but I know some have done it forever and managed not to burn down their house/garage/shed.
Thank you
I burnt some just last week. Real bummer.
Saludos de Durango Dgo México,muy buen contenido felicidades sigue a si ,sigue adelante 😛👍
OOOoooo, Jesse got a fruit press. Looking forward to some new fruit brandy vid's.
How do you deal with methanol and H2S from the thumper? Would you have the thumper connected and filled from the start and collect slightly more foreshore? Thanks in advance
Would adding a hop spider style device over the direct contact element work? Installing the spider over the element before it fills the boiler with mash.? Maybe making it removable.
I am not someone who has distilled on the grain, but I am a man who has designed and built bioreactors. Can't you put better feedback control on the elements so they never go above 110-120C and then nothing can burn. I used to control the systems to 0.1C accuracy, so 10C accuracy seems trivial a bimetallic strip should do that.
If you're not really trying to distill more alcohol from the grain solids and instead just looking to impart or enhance the flavors is a 'gin basket' (or multiple gin baskets) a suitable option? Sure they increase the size and complexity of the still overall, but would they serve the purpose? I'm interested because such a set up would allow you to distill both on 'grain' as well as impart any other flavor from solids that you might want to experiment with. How does this affect the final distillate? Or is a gin basket basically just a thumper?
Forgive me if this is obviously a stupid comment...I'm just now starting to get into distilling and brewing and probably read way more than is good for me at this stage of my interest and ability.
How do you tell the four shots from the heads?
Would you do some infusion videos for us in the USA who can't have a still i have easy access to 95% everclear at any store that sells beer almost. I haven't found to many videos that use more then fruits or marijauna so please and thank you
Manscaped trimmer is really good. I don't like the crop preserver or ball deodorant though.. it has fragrance I don't like and alcohol and other ingredients I don't want on my stick and berries
So I'm doing a pear brandy hypothetically if I am using a brew bag during fermentation,,, say I pull this bag when I think it's done its job in the fermentation bucket ,, then say I freeze it and save it till hypothetical distillation and put it in a elevated stand pot ,,, think it would contribute to flavors carrying over ,,, thoughts ???? And yes I used pectin enzymes and of course I mean just using the contents of the bag lol not the nylon bag itself lololol cuz I know someone is gonna say it lol
A way I use most often; Is to ferment without brew bag. Then when ready, I line fruit press with pressing bag and add mushy stuff and let drain naturally. Then flush with very hot water (I ferment at higher ABV than final product's ABV. For example: Fermented fruit wine at 15% diluted with 25% hot water to get ~12% ABV), then I press it out slowly ( I have had bag explode from going too fast). I prefer this method as this is an easier way to get a cleaner product and faster set up clean-up also.
Both ways give a very good result without the worry.
i messed up and dint buy one of the shorts your wearing please tell me you are doing another run of them soon?
There seems to be few camps about it,lots of people seem to thing distilling on grains is bad.is it really traditional? Historically speaking.
Many of the old moonshiners would ferment and distill in a submarine pot. They would stir constantly until it began to boil and then put the cap on.
Question/observation...would it be of any benefit to do a stripping run with the strained liquid and then put strain it back through the grain before the finishing run?
Good topic
weld 2 stainless steel colanders (mesh not holes) together with a stainless steel hinge and a clasp like an old skool tea infuser, fill with your chunks of preference and good to go
Won't work. Fine particles will pass through the mesh anyway.
@@skyhookspirits corn aint that fine, you assume my chunks :P
Ive been thinking about building one of them pots with the stainless rods to go inside and put apples or peaches in it on spirit runs have you tried this? Thoughts?
These stand off basket filters don't work well .
As you need to ferment on grain with Angel Yellow Yeast, would the BIAB method be the cleanest option when it comes to racking, and, do you foresee any issues with Angel Yellow Yeast working within a BIAB environment?
I strained before I fermented...did I mess that up?
No, lots of folks do. Personally I usually do it that way, then use the grain to flavor/provide nutrient for a sugar head
Question, the still I'm going to get has a false bottom, is it safe for the bag to sit directly on it or should it be suspended?
I just had an epiphany what about putting the grains in a gin basket instead of a thumper?
You have to bypass the gin basket initially to the point that the methanol is gone in order to not have that strip the grain - essences off. Most baskets hold limited volume of material IMHO
Maybe "should" instead of " "have to"..... but when I did two back to back gin runs, 1st. w/o bypass and 2nd w/bypass totally different intensity of essence flavors came thru.
In fairness, most gin essences are pretty robust. If you were doing the light and subtle "botanocal" gins with Oris root etc you def need to bypass
Hi Jesse I've been a long time fan . And have watched many of your video. But I'm haveing a big problem maybe you or your views can help me with. I've been trying to do a all corn mash. I'm useing deer feed ,not sweet feed just strait corn. Now I know you need amylase to convert the starches. I'm useing ld carlson amylase. But I can't get the starch to convert. I've ground the corn and have done 2 batches. And have. Gotten my mash to gell but I can't get it to convert. I've tried 2 times on 2 different batches one I've pitched the amylase at 150 F and at 140 F . But no conversation. What am I doing wrong ? The ld carlson amylase doesn't say way temp to add it at.
boil the bejesus out of your corn - then let it cool down and add your amalyse. You need to gelatanise the starch for the amalyse to work more effectively. Longer you can keep the temps up high, the better your conversion will be.
I trained as a Chef and one of the ways we did for slow cooking, pre all the computerisation, we did a bain marie, would that work for distilling on the grain? Putting the still in a bigger pot filled with water?
EDIT: I guess I should leave all questions till the end... :)
Just make sure whatever you use, don't have chunky stuff and a head system that can plug (strainer packs, reflux, bubble plates, etc). They can plug if the device 'pukes' and then the risks range from scalding to shrapnel. You don't want to explain how you achieved your wounds to the emergency room staff nor the spouse. Plus recovery time means no more hobby activities. Be very careful.
i have a question about sanitation, can i use an ultravioet class c to sterilise containers rather than a wash?
Just use Starsan.
So once a batch has scorched, Will distilling it again clean it up? Or is all lost...😢
Once scorched, it is trash.
I'm tempted to put my keg still directly in a pot of boiling water think this would work?
I just tried this two days ago and I couldn’t get enough heat transfer to run my reflux still. It would work using ethylene glycol or oil as that temp gets much higher than water boiling heat transfer. I don’t want to put those other substances in my expensive pot. I need to elevate the grains in a bag perhaps. I’ll think on it.
according to some of the comments yes, but it would take much longer than normal. you might want to look into something to raise the boiling temperature at a reasonable price. salt, sugar, used antifreeze, that kind of thing. and as the comment above said consider doing a pot still distillation with the "water jacket" and then distilling that stripping run with a reflux because you would not be concerned about burning a once distilled liquid.
Drinking Game: Take a shot each time you hear the word "Grain" :P *Drink responsible ;)
F Yea!
Fruit press!
Why not just make a metal mesh close to the element to make sure nothing can get close to it so it doesn't burn?
You mean like a false bottom?
@@StillIt More like something to surround the element. Unless the element is at the bottom under the still then yes a false bottom. Like the first element you showed that would be in the still wrap it in a metal mesh that would make sure it doesn't touch anything that can burn.
Would a nut milk bag work to strain it out
Heh heh, "nut milk". 😆
Lmao that was my thoughts because I was looking for cheese cloth 🤣
Paint straining bag
I don't think it's that difficult just be careful and run it slowly with the solids
Day 9. Could you make a distilled video of Planter's Honey Roasted peanuts?
I want to see someone take a whole still and put it in a bigger pot filled with water or oil..
That is what my friend does, he has a copper pot still that he build (probably about 30 liters) and puts in a giant aluminum pot full of peanut oil over a gas burner. Works nicely for him.
Another riveting piece Jesse. I have been thinking about traditional whiskey making and lately am playing with rye. So far, I am lautering before the ferment but really want to carry the grain further along. I read up on George Washington's recipe which they produce and sell at Mt. Vernon. There are a number of youtube videos by the staff on the process - very interesting (e.g. th-cam.com/video/ncGsjTRQJPw/w-d-xo.html ) One thing that always puzzled me is how on earth did they (or any moonshiner) deal with a direct fire under a copper still without scorching? I mean, look at the soup they pour into the still! Seems impossible, doesn't it?
I’m scared of THUMPERS
But… I really want to learn to use one safely
I know if you don’t release the pressure they can implode your still.
Gosh, I really want that extra flavor by “shooting the thumper”!
There are vacuum release valves you can buy to install on the boiler side. Or, just like you don't plug in an electric boiler without first filling it with liquid, you don't shut it down with a thumper attached without opening the boiler to the atmosphere. I just remove the boiler's fill port plug when I'm ready to shutdown.
Please reconsider some of the advice you have given in this video. There was a case of a user on homedistiller who had an actual fire in the still under the false bottom....Yes I know it's hard to believe you can have a fire under "water", but it happened. I think you are a member their so if you have any questions you can contact them, search for "Fire in boiler" or user "Scorpster". They can supply you with an explanation of what the conditions were and pics to show the results. Until you have clarity I strongly suggest you take this video down until you understand what can happen.
Sc
6:14 Is this man really going to try and sell me products that are meant to trim body hair?...
Just get a digiboil. I have never had a problem. And you will make better tasting spirits. Spend a dollar and get yourself one.
In my area we aren't allowed to distill anything.... kinda sucks but thats the law
How do they know you are distilling?
That's the law where I live too but we don't give a fuck.
Anyone heard the saying a true measure of a person is what they do when nobody is watching.... Meh 😕