now this looks dope. I'm def going to have to try this out. I really like the zod style types and the auto generation on the db types. Seems like they are really going to give firebase a run for their money on the web. I wonder if they already have docs around Flutter, native Android or ios, Unity, ect. Def excited about the protentional.
It would be nice if the outfits.get function had a trpc-like syntax where you would just add `{ select: products }` to the asyncmap('outfits') instead of having to do that nested await for the products ☘
To some extent it seems like a slightly more expensive version of Supabase with a considerably smaller ecosystem and that also comes with vendor lock-in which you don't have in Supabase 🤔 Do you see any major reasons why someone would go with Convex over Supabase?
Working on Convex is my full-time job, but as a user: - Types+autocompletion without needing to wire react-query or tRPC to Prisma and wire that to my database. Instead I write the query in TypeScript and get those types in the frontend. - Transactional TypeScript instead of SQL: it's easier for me to write out backend transaction logic in TypeScript than in SQL. I like SQL for data engineering / ETL but with SQL I always mess up locking a row, conditionally making a change, etc. and go back and forth on how much of my application logic to write in SQL vs my backend language. - Realtime reactivity on queries: instead of Firebase-style tables or Supabase realtime channels, queries automatically track their readsets to decide which clients to publish changes to. This is easier to write and more cohesive: with Convex, every query is reactive for no extra work. The smaller ecosystem point is absolutely true, and being able to use most npm packages in Convex functions only partially makes up for it. Vendor lock-in, absolutely - we're planning to open source much of this but don't deserve credit for this until we do it.
Supabase only lets you create 2 free projects, after that it's $25/month per project. Convex free limit is 5 projects. Convex pro is $25 a month for multiple projects. The price is crazy good.
@@skyhappy I work at Convex. You get 5 projects in the free team tier. A lot more in pro. We want to encourage folks to try new and interesting things.
This isn't ground breaking... you can do this with Mongo Cloud. But I will say that Mongo's SDK's are crappy at best. What I like about Convex is it's integration with React
Also interested in this. The folder just kind of appears in the video, and I can't find anything in the convex docs that talks about this folder being generated from any command.
Server side rendering will eventually make javascript obsolete server actions are html actions ,this one phenomenon will entirely remove react hooks, states,redux and all , all your data will be coming from backend based on that some API to make it look on UI
It looks interesting, but how the free tier goes? When it comes to a free tier, till I know Firebase is unbeatable and for a good margin. Does anyone know any database service that is as generous as Firebase but easier to use?
I used pnpm but then on 2 open source projects but it caused errors when booting up the project. Went back to npm, all issues gone. One of the projects was a simple react + vite + tailwind start, pnpm made tailwind not work.
The convex dev mode seems like 🔮 I'm just wondering how it works when you have deployed a production version and want to work on a new feature. Does it do a branch like planetscale?
I wish there is a BAAS than can generate a source code in laravel/meteorjs/django and a fully supported mysql/postgres/mssql or nosql at all, and an option where in you can deploy it in one click! I am willing to pay for such a service! At least I have full control in the future.
With Django if you're using the admin dashboard + viewsets for automatic CRUD endpoints and use a PAAS like flyio and a managed DB you're pretty close to that while still having full control about your code
Having used this, even though it's hosted remotely, the development instance is indistinguishable from a local instance because of how fast it updates.
@@jherr local environment is usually for one to experiment and only deploy stuff that works locally without burning through your allowance , having used this on firebase and pocketbase , it gives you the Peace of mind that a runaway useEfect won't burn you while in dev
Ian from Convex here. It sounds like you'd like our architecture then. There are some great articles Jamie (author of the 1.0 announcement) today has written on databases, and there's some deep dives coming on how we make it work under the hood. OCC/MVCC, strong acid transactions, super fast point lookups, etc.
The best channel to introduce new technologies first is here , and the explanation are always top notch ,keep it up , but I have a request , the majority of the people uses just JavaScript , I am one of them , not TypeScript , people who knows TypeScript will already know what to do , since not a lot of them will need much to understand whats going on , But for the sake of educational videos please consider using JavaScript unless the video is about something specific to TypeScript. Finally get your beard back man you look best with it
Nobody uses raw JavaScript at work in 2023. Get on with the times. TypeScript is dead simple to use and only gets complicated if you’re developing libraries.
In reality, this is a more expensive Appwrite. Firestore can handle so much better queries if you must use noSQL, which is terrible. I would choose Faunadb over this. Supabase is just superior because it is relational. They sell typescript joins as if it is a good thing. Graph databases should be the future.
Sometimes. Gotta keep the channel funded. But I'm always very conscious of the companies I choose to sponsor with and I make sure that they are worth our time. This one definitely is.
It appears to be a poor clone of Supabase. If I wanted vendor lock-in, I'd rather use Firebase. Convex does not seem very promising to be honest, also DX is very poor as you don't have a local instance.
I’m waiting for Fireship to do a 100sec tutorial of Convex😂
😂
🔥
😂
One of the most helpful channels I've come across - thank you for this!
You can see how happy the man is 😂😂😂 Things you love to see 👏
I rarely get excited with new tech but I really like what I see with Convex. Thanks for the video 👍
thanks for sharing your knowledge ❤
Got to @7:40 and 🤯 wow that's so cool. Defo would consider this for a startup ☘
how does this compare to supabase?
Oh man. this is crazy
Great video Jack, Convex is definitely a thing to watch
Can you please tell me which VScode theme you are using?
great
now this looks dope. I'm def going to have to try this out. I really like the zod style types and the auto generation on the db types. Seems like they are really going to give firebase a run for their money on the web. I wonder if they already have docs around Flutter, native Android or ios, Unity, ect. Def excited about the protentional.
It would be nice if the outfits.get function had a trpc-like syntax where you would just add `{ select: products }` to the asyncmap('outfits') instead of having to do that nested await for the products ☘
To some extent it seems like a slightly more expensive version of Supabase with a considerably smaller ecosystem and that also comes with vendor lock-in which you don't have in Supabase 🤔
Do you see any major reasons why someone would go with Convex over Supabase?
I'd like that comparison too, especially considering that Supabase is a more attractive option than Firebase.
Working on Convex is my full-time job, but as a user:
- Types+autocompletion without needing to wire react-query or tRPC to Prisma and wire that to my database. Instead I write the query in TypeScript and get those types in the frontend.
- Transactional TypeScript instead of SQL: it's easier for me to write out backend transaction logic in TypeScript than in SQL. I like SQL for data engineering / ETL but with SQL I always mess up locking a row, conditionally making a change, etc. and go back and forth on how much of my application logic to write in SQL vs my backend language.
- Realtime reactivity on queries: instead of Firebase-style tables or Supabase realtime channels, queries automatically track their readsets to decide which clients to publish changes to. This is easier to write and more cohesive: with Convex, every query is reactive for no extra work.
The smaller ecosystem point is absolutely true, and being able to use most npm packages in Convex functions only partially makes up for it. Vendor lock-in, absolutely - we're planning to open source much of this but don't deserve credit for this until we do it.
Supabase only lets you create 2 free projects, after that it's $25/month per project. Convex free limit is 5 projects. Convex pro is $25 a month for multiple projects. The price is crazy good.
@@ballingt what about authentication?
how to do authentication without using any other third party service
@@skyhappy I work at Convex. You get 5 projects in the free team tier. A lot more in pro. We want to encourage folks to try new and interesting things.
This isn't ground breaking... you can do this with Mongo Cloud. But I will say that Mongo's SDK's are crappy at best. What I like about Convex is it's integration with React
Hi, so about the Lib/ folder is it custom created by you ?? Because I can't see it in my project.
Also interested in this. The folder just kind of appears in the video, and I can't find anything in the convex docs that talks about this folder being generated from any command.
Hi Jack, which are these great looking terminal plugins you use?
WOW this is interesting.🥰 I found in Convex docs that auth0 is very easy to use. 😆
Clerk is also a good choice.
@@jherr Clerk has been such a great experience for me.
Supabaseeee
Server side rendering will eventually make javascript obsolete server actions are html actions ,this one phenomenon will entirely remove react hooks, states,redux and all , all your data will be coming from backend based on that some API to make it look on UI
I’m just here to hear how it compares to Supabase. My beloved.
My beloved. 😂 Now there is brand loyalty!
Well if it lets you have more than 1 project I’d say that’s a big win.
How and where is everyone deploying these convex apps?
It looks interesting, but how the free tier goes? When it comes to a free tier, till I know Firebase is unbeatable and for a good margin. Does anyone know any database service that is as generous as Firebase but easier to use?
Does it compete with Supabase?
i've noticed that you have stop using pnpm, is it not good ?
It's fine, it's just in some circumnstances the optimizations it makes can break stuff.
I used pnpm but then on 2 open source projects but it caused errors when booting up the project. Went back to npm, all issues gone. One of the projects was a simple react + vite + tailwind start, pnpm made tailwind not work.
Hey jack, can you make video on deno. Its fast and secure env and usage of npm packages
I will definitely be doing more on Deno going forward. I loved my experience with Fresh.
The data fetching is done at client side , can't we do SSR ?
You can definitely do SSR using their http client. There is a link to an article in the description that covers this in depth.
The convex dev mode seems like 🔮 I'm just wondering how it works when you have deployed a production version and want to work on a new feature. Does it do a branch like planetscale?
So wait, no redux saga and 1000 actions to update your state and data for every action?🎉😂
< :D >
another 🎸 baas
What about supabase vs convex ?
Appwrite is the best❤
I wish there is a BAAS than can generate a source code in laravel/meteorjs/django and a fully supported mysql/postgres/mssql or nosql at all, and an option where in you can deploy it in one click!
I am willing to pay for such a service!
At least I have full control in the future.
With Django if you're using the admin dashboard + viewsets for automatic CRUD endpoints and use a PAAS like flyio and a managed DB you're pretty close to that while still having full control about your code
Why did they make API react specific?
They didn't actually. I'm using the React bindings, for convenience, but you can make those calls out of any framework.
Does it have offline sync, this is one of the major benefits of firebase is the offline features to online sync?!
yes, hope it not like firebase, because it's opensource and selfhost but firebase suck for production because of price
firebase has an instalable local server , even supabase hasn't figured out that crucial piece of dx
Having used this, even though it's hosted remotely, the development instance is indistinguishable from a local instance because of how fast it updates.
@@jherr local environment is usually for one to experiment and only deploy stuff that works locally without burning through your allowance , having used this on firebase and pocketbase , it gives you the Peace of mind that a runaway useEfect won't burn you while in dev
supabase does offer a local development environment
@@arthur936 yes but it's a docket thing with massive images which isn't the most ideal
vendor lock in 3, 2, 1, ..
So I can skip over T3 stack which frankly was not as simple and easy as it appeared
New JS framework every week? More like new BaaS every week
That's not a bad thing. We've needed some new good solutions for the backend, the more the merrier.
I'm just not a fan of all these backed by postgres. There is a reason for the "convoluted" structure of Firestore. It is highly scaleable and fast.
Ian from Convex here. It sounds like you'd like our architecture then. There are some great articles Jamie (author of the 1.0 announcement) today has written on databases, and there's some deep dives coming on how we make it work under the hood. OCC/MVCC, strong acid transactions, super fast point lookups, etc.
It's been zero days since a new javascript framework has been released
This isn't a new JavaScript framework.
Not open source, thank you i will stick with Pocketbase
The best channel to introduce new technologies first is here , and the explanation are always top notch ,keep it up , but I have a request , the majority of the people uses just JavaScript , I am one of them , not TypeScript , people who knows TypeScript will already know what to do , since not a lot of them will need much to understand whats going on , But for the sake of educational videos please consider using JavaScript unless the video is about something specific to TypeScript. Finally get your beard back man you look best with it
Hahah, my wife doesn't like the beard. And in this particular case TypeScript is one of the selling features.
Nobody uses raw JavaScript at work in 2023. Get on with the times. TypeScript is dead simple to use and only gets complicated if you’re developing libraries.
auth?
They have integrations with the popular auth vendors and libraries.
Is Nextjs bottlenecking it?🙄
In reality, this is a more expensive Appwrite. Firestore can handle so much better queries if you must use noSQL, which is terrible. I would choose Faunadb over this. Supabase is just superior because it is relational. They sell typescript joins as if it is a good thing. Graph databases should be the future.
YouAdvertising!
Sometimes. Gotta keep the channel funded. But I'm always very conscious of the companies I choose to sponsor with and I make sure that they are worth our time. This one definitely is.
I hate saas.
It appears to be a poor clone of Supabase. If I wanted vendor lock-in, I'd rather use Firebase. Convex does not seem very promising to be honest, also DX is very poor as you don't have a local instance.
Terrible take!
😄 Promo_SM