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Jim Cornette on Hulk Hogan Leaving The AWA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2021
- From Episode 196 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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I swear at Hogans funeral he's just gonna climb outta his casket and say "this doesn't work for me brother".
Won't even put death over 🤣
He'll be saying that to the doctors at the hospital when they tell him death is going over. Hogan never did political stuff in the ring come on now. 😂
@@catastrophecookies6066 Hogan? A politician? Couldn't be 🤣🤣
This is the first I've ever heard hogan wont even put death over. Great line
Hulk will be cremated cos he won't want to be buried
That's so bad it's funny
Let's face it, Gagne made a huge mistake in not backing Hulk properly.
Even if he had Hogan would have probably still left for limelight of New York
It may have prolonged the AWA but Verne was never going to give Hogan what Vince was willing to give. Verne was too old to recognize it wasn’t the 1960s anymore and he couldn’t evolve with the times. Much like Vince McMahon today coincidentally.
@@Hotdiggity11 Even if Verne had basically turned the company over to Hogan the way WCW did in the 90s eventually Hogan would have wanted to go to the big stage of New York
@Hotdiggity
The WWE is more profitable than ever and Vince has more money than ever before. Comparisons to Verne or Al Davis are ignorant and absured. Vince continues to change with the times for better or worse and he's more successful than ever because of it.
The AWA was in the 70s the top place to work in the wrestling industry. And Verne Gagne was always said to be a great payoff man.
Verne had relationships in Japan, Germany, England, Canada, Spain and Portugal. A truly world champion and half the united states.
Verne should have gotten a cut because it was his reputation that opened the door for other talents.
Jim knows very little about the AWA and the people who comment here know even less.
There should be a review on the territories.
I can't think of the AWA without thinking of the WrestleRock Rumble promo video.
Is that the one with all the rapping?
@@zakrowe1301 Yes it is.
Curt Hennig and Scott Hall rapping 😂
@@GHOST91141...tag team champs. We'll take on them all.
Verne was spitting bars 🔥
Love when cornette delves into the old school wrestling stories….its like listening to a history teacher that can hold your attention the whole time
Didn't hold my attention because these guys didn't have a clue about Hogan and AWA history! You've been buffaloed Big Hell! Cornette gets an F here! Maybe Shane Douglas would give him a D-
@@curthennig9448 huh?
@@popeyedoyle6360 Cornette is off on his AWA history and that is why I gave him an F. Dean Douglas may have given him a D- only because of their past history in WCW.
@@woahblackbettybamalamwhat are you insinuating? Cornette is liberal af
One of the best decisions Hogan made to be honest
Thank you for your honesty
When went to WCW then started the NWO Hogans best decision👍☝🏻
I Like him even MORE SO now...
@Hidden Sword why do half of Jim's comments on YT just sound like shit boomers would say
@Hidden Sword respond to Kwame Brown and we'll find out
Verne was a stubborn old man and that's why his company died. Not only did he want Hogan's small potatoes t-shirt money, but he kept screwing around with him with the belt. Hogan as champ at the AWA could have put Verne over the top, instead he wanted to keep it on the "technical wrestlers" who he liked more.
You mean like Vince is stubborn now
Yup u Right.
Hogan was always going to go to New York, if Verne had put the AWA title on him he'd have just taken that with him to the WWF.
@@seanconway3160 build your own wrestling company then you mark. You live in a free country.
@Aaron Lassiter oh look a WWE fanboy and you can't even see my neckbeard because I have a real beard. Hit puberty the ill bother arguing w you little man
Darkside or the ring needs to an episode of the territories and all that..
I'd love to see an episode of the Mid-South territory run by Bill Watts
@@michaelvaughn8864 that would be awesome. I'd like to see right from the start .See how everything was cool with the n.w.a and when Vince Sr was the man for the wwwf. Then, I wanna see how when Vince Jr took over, what territories got bought out shit and exactly what was going on. There's A HUGE story in that and I think it should be told
@@andrewr1773 You know something, Mr. R.?? That sounds far better than what I suggested👌 Actually, I'd REALLY ❤ to see something old school like the WWWF run by Mt. McMahon, Sr back in the 60s and 70s, sir😊
Sorry, Mr. Mc Mahon
You should check out Vices "Tales from the Territories "
The AWA roster was incredible back then.
I remember when Scott Hall and the late Curt Hennig, the future Mr. Perfect, were the AWA tag champs. What an awesome time ot was☺
Sorry...it
AWA (Hogan, Okerlund, Heenan, & Stuff) & MidSouth (JYD, Duggan, DiBiase, OMG, Traylor, & Roberts) built WWF
@@michaelvaughn8864 Did they ever face the Rockers for the belt?
@@fuscinula Nope
No doubt Hogan leaving AWA was a death nail in the coffin for AWA one of the biggest mistake ever Verne Gagne did besides pushing his son as a legitimate champion
Nah it was everything else ontop of losing hogan. If it was ONLY losing hogan, they would have survived. They were still doing great business up until late 86.
Losing Hogan was not the deathnail but it did hurt. I don't remember Greg winning the AWA world title. Wake up King,you AWA hater!
@@curthennig9448 he's read way too many Scott Keith articles.
@@CGMedia2023 You're right. I've seen plenty of them. The AWA still had very good talent in 1984.
What also angered Hogan was the fact Verne and Greg Gagne both claim they didn't make that much money from the Hulk Hogan merch they sold, which is why according to the Gagne's Hogan did not get a cut of the profits. The Gagne's were notorious for short changing talent, which is the main reason a lot of them jumped to the WWE.
I remember one Saturday seeing Jim Brunzell as one of the High Flyers on the AWA show and an hour later as a Killer Bee in the WWF lol
That kind of happened with us in Canada with Dino Bravo. Pretty sure he was still on the last couple of Montreal promotions TV shows on the same day he was at a house show at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto.
Vince literally took most of the various territories top guys to fill out his Midcard, it was genius.
Jim was great. Had a good career.
The original Rick Rude in WCW/WWF lol
Probably pre-taping
Verne screwed Verne -- his wallet was so tight that it looked like he was walking on stilts.
I could make a list of many wrestlers that said verne paid them well.
I think it was more that he was going against someone who tossed money around like confetti....
Higan once wrote that Verne was afraid of losing him and was trying to get him to marry one of the Gagne girls... Hogan claimed he saw the writing on the wall then that the only way he was going to get the AWA title was if he was receptive to Verne's daughter...
Larry Zbysco didn't refuse lol
And you believe this crap? Hogan is the King of BS!
Greg Gagne was hurt the most by Hogan leaving, he was known to have been working on a super event called Wrestlemania at the time and even wanted to bring in celebrities like Mr.T and Cyndi Lauper. there was talk of him getting the Hulkster to slam Andre the Giant at some point.
This reminds me of the Greg Gagne's old Back to the Territories video with Cornette where he starts up this weird story about McMahon running around offering briefcases full of money to put the STELLAR AWA out of business. And how they were getting Andre back and everyone was coming back... and the AWA would rule the world again, were it not for McMachon's briefcases full of money.
Didn't he claim to have come up with the nWo too?
Greg invented the clothesline too
Lol
Greg did have those amazing Slim Jim commercials.
Well that's on Verne ...He didn't want to change ...with the times...🤷🏽♂️
The worst part of Hogan leaving AWA is we missed out on his wrestlerock rumble verse.
All he would have done was cup his ear,which is what he did when he went on the CIRCUS TOUR in New York.
@@TheAB3 I was the captain of the swim team at Robbinsdale. Minnesota's greatest athlete! I did everything perfect(LOL). Actually I wanted to get a better view of the 2 women from underneath. That's why I had no problem taking a bump into the Las Vegas pool.
I will say once more the combination of Thunderlips the Ultimate Male pounding on that meatball and Mr.T jumping over the rail to save Cyndi hooked me and I've been a fan ever since.
“Why are they carryin’ him?”
“He’s walkin’.”
@@zlinedavid Rocky ..."I wonder what they feed him" ...Mickey "About 217 pds of raw meat" ...Ring announcer..."Introducing weighing 217 pds .." 😉
“Nobody goes through this much for charity.”
“Bob Hope would.”
*shrug* “That’s true”
If Vern puts the AWA Title on Hogan, he could've closed out the 80's as AWA Champion and we would likely still have the Big 3 of AWA, NWA & WWF.
Vince was smart and capitalized on Hogan's Charisma and went national.
I doubt it. It wasn't losing just hogan that did in the AWA. It was also vince stealing arenas, TV stations, other talent, producers, etc. Verne couldn't keep making talent at the rate Vince was stealing them on top of everything else.
Vince has done really well on capitalising on other promoters mistakes. The only reason why vince got so big is because of everyone else we’re complete idiots and I bet we’re gonna see it again with tony Kahn.
He still would have spent all that money trying to keep his house.
I think Hogan being AWA champ would have prolonged them. The result still would be the same, it would just have put it off later.
Yup u right. It would have been stupid of Vince to pass this opportunity up.
"Hogan's comebacks always drove me insane" - Jim Cornette
Yeah I agree, even as a 9 year old I thought that shit was lame and not credible at all. Why people went nuts for that cartoon crap I'll never understand
@@smarkslowplay3512 I found it somewhat funny as it is but Piper getting aggravated is way more believable when he was pissed off looking he looked like a guy who got into a bar fight or boxing match
@@emperortrevornorton3119 da maniac loves ya
And yet Cornette glows lovingly over 185 pound Jerry Lawler no selling and dropping the strap against 400 pound giants.
It’s all the same, it’s all ridiculous…and it all sold. Cornette slobbers over his favorites like everyone else
@@thepunditspundit1776 Lawler made it look believable, and didn't HULK OUT of finishers, you moron
When I saw Ken Resnik, and not “Gene Mean” and hulk hogan for a period of time, I knew something had to be up. One day, on a Saturday morning in early 1984, I happened to be watching WFLD channel 32 in Chicago, hearing Oakerlund and seeing Hogan winning the WWF belt in Madison Square Garden. I felt as if the AWA was doomed…
Paying the boys wise. Verne sounds like the original. Heyman learned well. Lol
Verne had money issues with a lot of people from wrestlers to business partners.
Supposedly Gagne wanted Shieky baby to break Hogans legs but he wouldn’t do it.
Yes I heard this on an interview some where.
I heard that Sheik was offered $100,000.
Sheik dont break legs he breaks backs and makes them humble jabroni
@@herecomesdatrain then he facks them up the arse
Hogan corroborated that story... But again, consider the source.
That whole "Hogan can't wrestle" is garbage. Look at his early 80's stuff, he wasn't doing Bob Backlund work, but he was more than competent for 300lbs. Over the years working nine times a week on those hard rings beat him up, but that whole narrative is flat false
Never mind that, watch his match in 1999 with Stan Hansen and Great Muta in 1993... Hogan could go when the occasion called for it.
It’s not so much that he couldn’t, for the most part he didn’t have to. He was selling out places for kids who wanted to see the hulk up, punches, big boot, and leg drop. He didn’t have to work hard
Yeah I'd put any hogan match in Japan against any of the shit we have today.
@@TheFlock83 Hulk Hogan was smart he knew what worked for the fans and he did just that. It was a case of it ain't broke don't fix it.
I agree! For a big guy, Hogan was DAMN GOOD in the ring. And moved VERY WELL for a man that big. For me, the top 300 pound guys in that era in ring were guys like Hansen, Brody, and Gordy. Hogan wasn't on their level. BUT Hogan was BETTER IN RING than most guys 300 pounds and up!
Terry (Hulk Hogan) didn't have a Manager to guide him (like they do for athletes today), but he made the decision that was best for him (and eventually his bank account). AWA has some great history! 🤔
Mean Gene might have been just as important as Hogan in terms of what it did for WWF in the 80s. Gene was the best backstage interviewer ever... Really, who is better than Gene now????
Hogan, LOD, Shultz, Hennig, Martel.... I can go on and on... AWA stacked WWF full of talent
Jesse Ventura
Bobby Heenan
As a professional wrestling fan, I am glad Hogan made the choice to go to the WWF.
If that's the case Mike, then you're not a wrestling fan, but a follower of the CIRCUS. Professional clowntown would be the description of the WWF at that time when Hogan jumped on the train.
I had always heard and read that it really didn’t have anything to do with not getting the belt from Bockwinkel because Hogan made more money in Japan and spent more time there than in AWA so he couldn’t have been champion anyway because he was gone too much. It was a combination of Vince making him a better offer including a guaranteed contract to get him to quit Japan and Hogan being tired of Verne trying to get a bigger cut of his money.
Hulk Hogan is the greatest pro wrestler of all time
Lmao no.
I remember a year after Hogan left for the WWF and the AWA began using more veterans of the ring; Dick the Bruiser, Crusher, Von Raschke, and Larry Hennig. We jokingly called the AWA the "Alzheimer's Wrestling Association" because of the old guys on the cards from 1984 to 1986.
That's like the symptom of a promotion in a death spiral.
Yet they were bigger post hogan
The 83 AWA Battle Royals (AWA had battle royals every November around the loop) had a spot where Andre and Hogan start to go at it, but then the heels attack them. So they did sort of give us a tease.
Andre performed in the AWA first. Through Edwardo Carpentier who had been a star in the 1960s.
I saw Andre's first matches in north America along with Jimmy Snuka.
Verne was on the cutting edge and advanced the business tremendously.
Good comment Gopher. Finally someone with some sense.
Well, Andre worked in Canada before AWA, so his Canadian matches were his first North American matches. But his first American matches were with AWA. DIdn't Snuka wrestle as Lani Kealoha for Verne?
If you can find it in JRs archives listen to the Bill Watts story where he and Verne were gonna shoot wrestle in a hotel room for the rights to Mid South . .its a hilarious story.
Lolol😂😂 OMG!! Why not thumb wrestle instead?? Best 2 out of 3 perhaps??
@@michaelvaughn8864 With your permission, how bout two outta three falls to a T.V. time limit.
Great stuff Michael, thanks.
@@vonfreudenstein2201 Hey, that does work for me, brother👍😂😂 Thanks for the compliment, Mr. or Ms. Von Freudenstein
Had Hogan never left, I can't imagine what the WWF would have turned into.
The Iron Sheik would have turned babyface and feuded with a disgruntled JYD before dropping the belt to Rick Rude.
The only way Hogan stays with a percentage of the promotion
Terrible due to his not wanting to lose to guys ' not in his league '.
@@conniecarroll7222 I meant left the AWA, the topic of conversation.
@@conniecarroll7222 I meant left the AWA, the topic of conversation.
Hogan needed the belt. After Rocky III, Hogan's whole character was wrapped around the world title.
I think because Hogan was champion in Rocky 3, the expectation was that he should be champion in real Life.
Wake up Howie and check AWA history.
Well said! But Corny and Last FORGOT ABOUT the 2nd biggest acquistion from AWA. HEENAN!!! So Vince got his eventual biggest star (Hogan), top manager (Heenan), top color commentator (Ventura), and top interview guy (Mean Gen) from Verne! Not only that, we are talking MT. RUSHMORE GUYS in modern wrestling for guys in those particular roles.
Bottom line is Verne was TOO OLD SCHOOL for his own damn good! Before Vince got his plan really rolling, Verne was MORE EQUIPPED to go national that ANYBODY when u look at all the factors. SURE Georgia had TBS. BUT they were part of the NWA. And they weren't going to step on their fellow NWA members toes. So when u look at it like that, COUNT OUT all of the NWA members. WWF was in and out of the NWA UNTIL finally pulled the plug on that.
AWA WASN'T a part of the NWA. From there, they had the largest territory in the US IN TERMS of land area covered. With Chicago as its big dog. Can't blame the NWA territory guys for not doing it. CAUSE the whole point of the territory system was to have their own kingdoms and help each other. BUT AWA DIDN'T have to play by those rules.
If Verne put the belt on Hogan AT THE RIGHT TIME and decided to roll with him long term, Vince might not get Hogan WHEN HE DID! AWA business stays strong as hell. And Hogan having pride as AWA World Champ and being smart as hell DEMANDS Verne go national once it's becomes known Vince wants to do the same. And from there MODERNINZE AWA. Knowing Verne, he likely doesnt do it. And Hulk leave anyway. BUT instead of leaving in late 83, Hogan leaves a year or two later.
I believe it was the merch deal, the AWA wouldn’t give Hogan a slice of any of the merch.
Yeah I heard Verne sold t-shirts with Hulk sayings on them, when Hulk wanted his cut, Verne refused. That combined with the title controversies I'm sure ruffled Hogan.
@@Gotchism4Life that and Verne wanted a slice of Hogan's Japan money.
@@jpmagnus6909 Yes! Verne also wanted a % of Flair's money where Flair was trained by him.
@@Gotchism4Life yeah I think the negotiations with the AWA basically ruled out any points on merch, whereas Vince made Hogan a deal potentially worth millions. People can talk about the quality of wrestling etc, however Vince always had a better business brain and his product looked a lot more professional and polished.
@@jamief1263 Yeah, Vince could sell crap and call it caviar, while the other promoters had steak but sold it as cocktail weenies.
The AWA deserved what it got. They had it all and wasted every bit of it.
Hogan .. Henning...The Road Warriors...Andre The Giant....Madusa...Sherri...Hall ...Vader ...Slaughter ...Just to name a few ..that came through AWA...Man Verne is a Dummy !!
Verne was a greedy hard-headed egomaniac (not unlike Hulk or Vince)who only thought short-term
@@smarkslowplay3512 also, that Verne was still pushing himself as Awa champ from 1980 to 81 was also laughable.
@@jpmagnus6909 I wouldn't even say that he was a "World Champ" calibre wrestler even in '60.
Freebirds/Road Warriors was maybe the last big AWA feud
FOR SURE the last most bankable one! And they say Verne waited TOO LATE to do that feud. By the time Verne did it, the Birds wanted to go back to WCCW. And the LOD wanted to head to Crockett. It would have been AWESOME if Hogan stayed AT LEAST through 85. And we got to see an AWA with Hogan, Road Warriors, Freebirds, Brody, Hansen, Bock, etc. al there at the same time!
Blackwell vs. Sheik's army after Blackwell's 84 face turn was an awesome feud
I remember that great trophy presentation in the AWA with Mr Saito and Hogan. Mr Saito shared his culture by doing the trophy presentation the way the do it Japan with salt throwing and busting the trophy over Hogan's head.
And then there's that great promo where the Brain says Hogan is hiding under his bed and he won't come out even though his mommy is calling him. Now that's a promo.
Hogan also said he had to marry Vern's daughter to get the belt. Which later AWA champion Larry Zbysko did lol
Larry loved Cathy Gagne's body and also getting the AWA title. A win win situation for him.
Hogan leaving AWA for WWE was the beginning of the end of AWA. Sure, they still Bockwinkle and Curt Hennig to the brand afloat for Three or Four Years after but Hogan and that crew that went with Hogan to WWE, was new blood for the AWA and ties into WWE going National almost exactly around the time Hogan left, it was just one thing after another AWA, plus Verne Gagne couldn't train wrestlers like he did before because he was getting older.
Brad Rheingans was doing the training by 1981,well before Hogan left. Curt wasn't even around when hogan left and didn't become a major player until about 1986. Do your homework Kim!
I don’t believe a word that comes out of Greg’s mouth.
If Greg wasn't Verne's son he would have been lucky to even break into the business as a jobber. I'm in better shape now than he was in the 80s.
@@p.d.l7023 I liked the High Flyers tag team, but your right about Greg.
True story. I wouldn't believe Greg Gagne even if his tongue were notarized.
Once Verne lost Hogan in '83, AT THAT POINT and going into '84 he should have been thinking what singles stars OUT THERE can I get to match the star power of a Hogan, Flair, or Dusty. Or AT LEAST have the best shot. And from there build the AWA around them as the long terms champion.
He wasn't gonna get the Von Erichs. Brody was too much of an outlaw type. Right in Memphis, u had a prime Randy Savage! Savage was a diamond in rough NOT KNOWN all over the country. BUT Savage's attributes JUMPED OFF THE PAGE! And Savage was WAY AHEAD of his time. U also had Austin Idol down there as well. HELLA SWAG and IT factor! Plus u had Lawler down there too. Verne on the singles side had NOBODY in their 30's with the IT FACTOR of a Savage, Idol, or Lawler. Bock did BUT he was pushing 50 years old. He had the Road Warriors as the centerpiece. They could feud with the Fabs, High Flyers, and eventually the Freebirds on the tag side. So the tag side was very solid.
But on the singles sides, Martel wasn't the answer as AWA World Champ. And Bock (while great was getting too old) If it was prime Bock, the answer was RIGHT THERE! Verne should have made his bond with Memphis stronger. Let a young Jerry Jarrett into the mix and CUT A DEAL to put the AWA World Title on a Savage, Idol or Lawler. Have those three in the AWA World Title mix ALONG with the AWA mainstays. I'm not saying a MERGER with Memphis or AWA. BUT a strong relationship. When Verne put the belt on Lawler, it was TOO LATE in 88. And out of desperation. Should have done it 4-5 years sooner!
Verne was too ole school...he believed a technical tough guy should be champion..He didnt buy in on the flamboyant charasmatic champion.Bock would have held that belt back and forth until he was 60. The WWF forced him to change and try Martel Hansen Zybysko, Otto Wantz and Jerry Lawler
Lol we had a soccer tourney in Massapequa(Long Island ) New York in 84 .. I had one of those I ❤ NY t shirts .. lol great memory . 👍
I did a car inventory up there last year.
The fall of the AWA and this backbreaking debacle with Hogan kind of epitomizes Verne Gagne. He was a great wrestler and trainer, but not a great businessman. He only thought about short term gain and not long term investment.
Explain 1960 until 1985 then you goof! 25 years sounds long term to me. Jesus Christ,open your eyes
It isn’t totally fair to levy that accusation based on Hogan as to long term investment. He was absolutely short sighted in the sense that he tried to strong arm hogan into giving him big cuts of his money for the belt. But we’re also viewing this with hindsight. He couldn’t have known what Hogan would become. It took a level of investment nobody in wrestling besides Vince would’ve made for Hogan to blow up like he did. Where I would say he was absolutely unwise is strong arming someone who has outside revenues that allow him to leave you, in an industry where he can go work in a ton of places, that you don’t have any contract to legally keep.
Vince did a lot of dirty business in regard to the AWA, especially how he acquired the AWA television. I recently read the Death of The Territories by Tim Hornbaker, and he goes into detail on all the shady business dealings that Vince Jr did to make the WWF/WWE the juggernaut that it currently is.
Hit the nail on the head there Dave! Vince dirtied himself to the top. It wasn't because his product was any good.
In a way Verne was the downfall of the AwA
I know you should always take Hogan's stories with a grain of salt, but his version is that Vince payed him a clandestine visit in MN to negotiate.
Just one last word from the former champ Verne!
Dr.D stopped in San Francisco first before he went to NY
Which was run by the AWA
Gagne became the gold standard for examples of promoters for whom the business passed by.
Vince was a ruthless businessman, yes, Gordon Gekko comes to mind. Greed however destroyed the territories.
AWA was still good up until about 1987 then it fell off a cliff.
The same year Bockwinkel retired.
..
They were still getting raided by the WWF in 87. The WWF took Shawn Michaels and Marty Janettey that year. Then they took Curt Hennig and made him a colossal star. The AWA took a crap when they started putting the belt on Jerry Lawler and Larry Zbysko. Wouldn’t put the belt on Hogan but put it on those two clowns.
@@Ijustinsultedyou Have you seen the AWA roster back then? Not like he had much of a choice.
@@maxxdahl6062 I lived the roster back then. He didn’t have much of a choice because he put his self in that situation of not have much of a choice. Hence putting the belt on clowns when he had multiple opportunities to put them on future mega stars.
@@Ijustinsultedyou Not really, when you get everything stolen from you, from talent, to producers, to tv stations, to arenas, and every single time you get legitimate talent, Vince steals them you're pretty fucked. Though I also think Zybysko and Lawler are highly underrated, especially Larry on the mic.
Andre told Vince that Hogan was in japan cuz it was Andre that sealed the deal to switch to WWF cuz Hogan respected Andre so much back then
The interviews the past years with Greg Gagne about this are very interesting weather they are true or not but it's obvious why Hogan left for the WWF
Always makes me chuckle that Hulk Hogan is the first IWGP Hwt. Champion.
Jim, it was Hogan. He was not normal. He was like Magic and Bird in one. He changed it all.
Verne Killed the AWA himself bad promoting bad business decisions and too stubborn to see the potential of not just his stars but also his mid and under cards to whom many would become legends and household names to this day working WWF and both WCW promotions. Feeling on remembering their were 2 WCW anyone else.
This is not my email, nice to hear Bryan pronouncing the name correctly.
Go back to Starkville
They all eventually left the AWA.
Verne couldn't move forward. He wanted the classic technical wrestler as his champion and....Bockwinkle even getting older was still one of the best wrestlers in the world but he kept having Hogan go over only to not actually win the belt. Verne wanted all the merchandise money.
If Verne had put the belt on Hogan, even for moment he'd of stopped Vince in his tracks. Hulk was already a cross over star in the AWA.
Wasn't he in the AWA when he was on Carson promoting Rocky 3
@@johngallagher72 yep. Vince Sr fired him for doing the movie. Story goes Vince Jr saw Hulk in the movie and instantly knew that was the guy he wanted to build his company around. Then he took off in the AWA as a baby face chasing the title. Got a ton of good press working dates in Japan. Got a ton of exposure doing press for the movie. Verne made the mistake with Hogan that Vince did years later with Luger. He burned the audience out by teasing the title change but it never actually happening. Hogan jumped and the rest is history.
Also Hogan found out Gagne was selling Hogan merchandise without giving Hogan a cut. That's when he recalled Vince and the rest is history.
Love the Hogan's Heroes connection making Gagne look like COLONEL KLINK!
I think Cornette has talked about this in recordings 100 times.
Rockers, Rick Martel, Curt Hennig, & many others all left Verne for Vince Jr.
I grew up on AWA wrestling and lost the interest in wrestling after couple years of WWF. We didn't cable in upper Midwest so did not have access to other promotions at that time. I love watching classic-style Southern wrestling and personalities that more genuine beef with each other. Last couple years of Verne's programs were hard to watch.
C'mon Greg!!!!! Tell Us!!!!
Verne was old and loyal to the territories.
Vince was young and had nationwide plans.
Vince said that if his father knew what junior was planning senior never would have sold junior the promotion.
Vern thought Hogan couldn’t wrestle, but Hogan knew enough to front facelock Vern when he leg dived him during an argument about gimmick money.
I never understood why a person like Hulk Hogan who has done so much would rather lie about something he didn't do.
I am fascinated by this event and how it reshaped wrestling.
Vince probably would have found a way to go national without Hogan . Hogan definitely helped though and was probably the most important part tbh.
@@johngallagher72 That's probably true and VKM absolutely destroyed the territories, although they were dying too. Hogan helped a ton though and his late AWA run you can tell he is a superstar.
@@johngallagher72 Right! Vince still would have went national. BUT it wouldn't have been as huge WITHOUT Hogan. EVEN THOUGH I'm convinced he still would have been successful Sarge could have been the one to beat Sheik for the WWF World Title. And start that run with him. U still would have had Andre, Snuka, JYD, Tito, Steamboat, etc. on the face side. And the heel side was tremendous with Piper, Orndorff, Muraco, Valentine, Studd, Bundy, etc. That's MORE THAN ENOUGH to start the national run with. BUT it still wouldn't be the same without Hogan.
On the FLIP SIDE, this means a happy Hogan as AWA World Champ TURNED DOWN Vince's offer to join the WWF. Hogan WOULD HAVE KNOWN Vince's plan on going national. And his plan to really up the ante marketing and production wise in a manner NEVER SEEN BEFORE! Once Vince's plan started coming into fruition, we ALL SAW what Vince was up to. As smart as Hogan was, he would have went to Verne AND SAID u better get with the times OLD MAN! Or else I'm gone! The question is what would Verne do...
AWA would have had a KILLER roster with Hogan as the World Champ and the LOD as the tag champs. Plus u had Brody, Abby, and the Freebirds come into the AWA as well in 1984-1985. AWA FOR SURE would have made an hell of an impact national wise IF Verne changed with the times.
Vern was stupidly greedy. He actually thought he could get Hulk Hogan to agree to a contract that would give Vern 50% of all HH’s future earnings in perpetuity for a huge push.
50% my ass. Who told you that?Trump?
@@curthennig9448 That is what HH stated during an interview I watched… Yes - that’s what HE said.
@@HPP666 I have heard Hogan state in 2 interviews that Verne wanted a percentage of his Japan deal if he gave him the AWA title. He never gave an actual number and I seriously doubt it was 50%. Hulk was already given a mega push in the AWA by late 1981 and it only got stronger as time went on. Can't say I disagree with verne because he was losing money by letting Hogan wrestle on a few tours of Japan. 10% would have been reasonable. Now Verne not sharing the T-shirt money with Hogan was completely wrong. So Verne sort of screwed himself there by pissing off The Hulkster. He told a few people that he didn't want to leave the AWA but the friction with Verne was too much. The AWA would have held their own for a little while longer with Hogan on board but eventually he would have wound up with Vince most likely. You may have heard the 50% figure Hunter, but surely that does not seem believable. Nobody would ever agree to that.
Is that Verne Gagne in the window or Alex Jones?
Both filed for bankruptcy!
Vince ruined wrestling ,the territory days of wrestling were the greatest
What if Graham would have tried to sign hogan
Cornette will never give HH his due. Trust that despite the talent HH brought with him the AWA would still have died next to the stars already in the WWF + Hogan. Everyone helped make the WWF more interesting but HH brought the absolute heat that killed the other territories. Hogan was getting national press....NATIONAL...in 82/83 so it was mainly him who made the WWF. There is a video recently resurfaced from that era where Hogan was expected to make a million dollars that year and this was before 84.
It wasnt hogan who made the WWF lol. He helped, but he's *far* from being the only reason 😂 get off Hogans dick lol. Muscles and what else again..? Oh right.. "that doesnt work for me brother" 😂
He made The Rockers wrestle forever and never gave them the belts until was too late, that was another boo boo. Scott Hall bolted too...
He gave the Rockers the belts 11 months after their debut. He was better to them than people knew and even Marty Jannetty admits it now. Hall left because he was exposed as green when he wasn’t wrestling with Hennig. The guy Verne screwed, besides Hogan, was Curt Hennig because he made him wait until the AWA was desolate before he gave him the belt. ( Even then Hennig had to threaten to jump to the WWF in 1987 before he eventually did in 1988.)
I think it worked out pretty well with HBK rising and Marty taking his drug issues elsewhere
In the Creative Meeting before leaving the AWA, I imagine Hulk Hogan would have said … “That doesn’t work for me Brotherrr “ … 👀
Wow are you a Meltzer mark or what.
When Hogan was in AWA he didn’t have creative control. If he did, he would have actually won the belt instead of Verne constantly taking the belt back after each win.
But yeah you keep think what Meltzer tells you to think.
@@Zebojr2kool oh snap. So true, mic dropped
I don’t think he contractually had as much creative control during his first run with Vince, but he didn’t need it. He knew he could talk Vince into almost anything.
I wonder how gagne would have handled the whole "doesn't work for me brother" it might have driven him insane
The crazy thing is back then it was not uncommon for a wrestler to go from territory to territory every few years. A lot of people need to remember that the last territory that Hogan was in prior to the AWA was the the WWWF/WWF. Much of the AWA talent had also previously worked there. So if nothing else this was simply Hogan going back after ownership had changed.
Hogan would have made The AWA the biggest it had ever been but it wouldn't have been anywhere close to WWE. Vince said the reason he didn't have a lot of sympathy for crushing the territories was because the owners had no ambition. They just wanted to keep the status quo and pocket as much money as possible, while reinvesting next to nothing to improve their products. Vince was prepared to roll the dice on Wrestlemania and go bankrupt if it didn't succeed. So it was Hogan's star power plus Vince's ambition that made WWE what it was.
On April 24, 1983, during the AWA Super Sunday in St. Paul, Hulk Hogan was disqualified and stripped of the AWA world’s heavyweight championship for throwing Nick Bockwinkel over the top rope, let all of his fans down, left the ring empty handed, threw a temper tantrum in frustration and yelled “DAMN YOU, MEAN GENE!!! DAMN YOU, HEENAN!!! DAMN YOU, BOCKWINKEL!!! DAMN YOU BLACKBURN!!! DAMN YOU, BLEERS!!! DAMN YOU, GAGNE!!! DAMN YOU, KARBO!!!” while bursting into tears. Fed up with that incident and being disqualified and stripped of the world’s heavyweight title, Hogan decided to take matters into his own hands, left the AWA and never wrestled there again.
Vern/AWA and Hogan just wasn't working. Everything Hogan did Vern was pretty much against (movie, merch, Japan). =It was pointless for Hogan to stay in the AWA. Vern is a great wrestling trainer (Rick Flair) and the AWA was a great territory.
Hogan already did the filming for Rocky before he came to the AWA. Verne let him do Japan tours for 2 years. Not working! What planet are you on Jon? The Hogan years in the AWA were big business.
When Hogan left, he took the roster with him. AWA started going downhill.
Actually, Brian. The AWA was located in the Midwest, Minneapolis to be exact.
Their headquarters were in Minneapolis but they did shows everywhere.
Verne always thought a technical wrestler should always be the champ but Hogan's pop was crazy in 83'. He should I pushed him. Probably would have kept him in business longer for sure. It's really interesting how many stars especially young ones that Verne was able to book.
I was a hulkamaniac but as an adult its beyond me how he bcame the biggest star.in the days of kayfabe how the hell did the public believe that 'hulking up' was real?its as stupid as stupid can be
Hogan is the definition of cartoon. Japan stuff aside, he was an atrocious wrestler to watch and feel real.
You answered your own question. Kayfabe and the times. Hogan was EVERYWHERE back then. I remember it.
The 80s was corny as hell. I lived through it.
Same was as why would you believe a guy was a multi millionaire
Or why would you believe a guy was a deadman
Or why would you believe a boss would allow a wrestler to beat the fuck out of him and give and his staff stunners most weeks and not just fire him
It’s wrestling simple as that
This takes the cake for one of the stupidest comments I have ever read on the internet. Professional Wrestling even before Hogan has had its suspension of disbelief well established. I mean moves like Baron Von Raschke's claw hold, hot tags, the use of foreign objects are all part of the act that a fan wanting to escape reality would get lost in. Let's also not forget that a lot of tropes in TV and Movies are no different either when it comes to "believing what's real".
That was the start of the Best Run Ever TIL 90'...
Greg Gagne was the first man on the moon
He will also be the last man on the moon. Probably headed for Mars as we speak!
Commentator?
"Common tater ".
Hogan left because he wasn’t nearly as marketable as Nick Bockwinkle, Greg Gagne, Larry Zybysko, or Verne Gagne. Verne knew those 4 were waaaay better and just let Hogan go. Just ask Greg. He’ll tell ya it was better having two 60+ yr olds wrestling (Verne and Bockwinkle) to draws or count outs or Greg doing outdoor workouts w/ Sgt Slaughter. That was rastling back in the day!!!
Everything Hogan says needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. According to him, Andre died days after mania 3
He said 'soon after'
Firstly, many wrestlers have stated Andre died shortly after, even in docs. The writing on the wall was clear for Andre in 87. He died six years later but was clearly dying and in bad shape. Even Vince has said Andre died shortly after. Fans are thinking Andre had to die almost immediately for the comment to be true. Andre had slowed down dramatically from 83 to 84/85, it is actually quite remarkable to actually see how fast he was declining into his death. Matches between 83 and 84 prove this.
@@mrg8581 Hogan clarified long ago it wasn't true but fans keep ranting on that...so weird
Hogan's a professional level troll, hyperbole, exaggeration...yadda yada. I'll start caring about Hogan's "truths" if he ever decides to become an elected official.
@@selfiekroos1777 6 years isn't soon after. More Hogan BS.
Sheik Roger Kirby
Hey Jim, ive been workin in L-ville, id love to stop by and say hey! Just shake ur hand and tell ya thanks for all the great years!
Its truly sad what rastling has became these days. I dont even think id call it wrestling.
Are they nobody in the world with the money and the desire to bring real wrestling back?
Have we truly seen the last of good wrestling? Is it really gone forever?
Verne was good at training talent but he should have merged with the WWF
Verne should of just protected his own yard. It’s when he tried to venture into other markets throughout the country is where he sealed his fate.
I remember AWA had that one tv commentator who called many Michaels/Janetty matches. Then WWF brought him in for commentary. I remember him being the commentator on the Rockers WWF debut and he says "I don't know anything about these Rockers" during the commentary. I was like Dude, you were calling their matches for the last year in the AWA and now you have no idea who they are. I mean I know why he said it but it was still funny to me.
Ron Trongard or something similar to that was his name.
Its hard to picture hulkamania reaching its full potential in the AWA. Say what you will about Hogan, the guy is super shrewd.
I guess you've never seen Hogan's matches at the St.Paul Civic center from 1981 to 1983. Hulkamania couldn't get any higher. Get to TH-cam fast. How shrewd was he when he didn't discipline his kid with his driving problems or funding his no talent singing daughter for a couple of million. I'll give him credit though for banging Heather Clem while he was married and pretending it wasn't videotaped so he could get over on Gawker. I think he got a piece of Liz too when she was hiding at the Hogan household in the early 90's. No wonder Savage couldn't stand Hogan and challenged his ass.
@@curthennig9448 the reaction to Hogan chasing the belt would only have gone as far as AWAs limited distribution and audience. WWF had the resources for the media creation that was Hulkamania.
@@777Eliyahu I agree with that slot machine(LOL). I just meant that Hogan couldn't have gotten any better in the AWA. He was hot as hell with or without the belt,although Verne should have put it on him by the fall of 1983 at the latest. In early 1984 I don't know if anyone could have predicted where the WWF would wind up. Obviously it turned out great for them.
@@curthennig9448 you're not wrong, and I personally think Hogan did his best work in AWA and Japan.
@@777Eliyahu Absolutely. He could do some things in Japan that people wouldn't have expected.
Belt or not Hogan would’ve left. The things and potential Vince was offering would’ve been too good to pass up even with the belt. Realistically what comparison is it? You’re going to the champion in New York and the focus point of a national expansion. Or you can stay in the AWA and be the champion in Minnesota. Harsh to say but the offer for WWF was way too good to have passed on.
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