FIX the ZWO Fan Vibration Issue
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2023
- In this video we discuss the ZWO fan vibration issue and do a full fan replacement in detail, step by step, to get perfect round stars in our images.
I have experimented with a few different fans since making this video and my current recommendation is the Fractal Designs Silent Series fans, they seem to have the least vibration. For smaller ZWO cameras like the 533 you want the 40mm x 10mm design, and for the ZWO cameras with the larger frame like the 6200 you want the 50mm x 10mm design. I also recommend the silicone mounts by Noctua to help further reduct vibrations.
Sorry folks, TH-cam keeps removing the links to the fans, so you'll have to hunt them down on your own. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Thanks for the hint to use the o-rings. Did not do that before.
If you orient the cable to the right, you can easily fit the whole cable and adapter cable into the pockets on the lower side of the heat sink (left and right of the screw). No need for splicing or other difficult operations.
Love the Red Green reference. 👍 I’ve got a 2 yr old 533MC Pro and watching this is making me think about my camera differently now. Hope you’re enjoying your SkyShed POD.
Glad someone got that! If you’re getting nice round stars with your setup then don’t worry about the camera. I am still waiting on a permit from the city to put the Skyshed together, I can’t wait to start using it!! Clear Skies!
I was able to tuck in all the wires - using the same Noctua fan you used. I also used the adapter - so there was a lot of cable to tuck in!
Great video! I have a side-by-side rig, (ED127 & LX200R). The 533MC Pro is on the ED 127, 294MC Pro is on the LX200R - reduced to 1575mm). Like you I spent about 6 months fitting out the rig. I focused on the ED 127 to get things going due to the smaller focal length and ease thereof. The ED 127 is performing flawlessly. The LX200R has some slight collimation issues that I'm preparing now for adjustment. Tracking on both is fine. Not seeing any negative vibration issues with both cameras. Both cameras are out of warranty.
I saw Cuiv's video on camera vibration and now followed by yours. I agree with your assessment that these issues are more unique than common place. Nevertheless, I ordered a replacement fan due to potential failure-issues. For the cost it seems like a good investment for insurance if one presents failure.
The most important observation from both yours and Cuiv's videos is the potential confusion this could cause between poor tracking (and-or mount issues, guide scope flexure, etc.) or fan failure. How would one know if it was caused by fan vibration? I could imagine spending countless hours on this trying to resolve the issue if it presented itself. Knowing that fan failure could present these issues is well worth the $13.95 for purchase now.
Good info and instruction on how to remediate this problem if it does present itself.
Thank you! Side-by-side rig eh? Don't put these ideas in my head, I'm trying to be happy with my current setup!
Glad to hear you don't have the issue, I don't think it is very widespread. I honestly think that some people have had this issue and it caused them to give up on their rig. I know Cuiv sold his Edge HD because he couldn't get it working and it looks like it was probably this issue.
Once you get to a large enough aperture and focal length the issues become much more challenging, I'm just glad I knew that before I started so I was mentally prepared to be frustrated for months on end lol.
Clear Skies!
I did that on my 290MM-Pro last week and holy moly, I didn't have time to test it because it's cloudy, but I can no longer feel vibrations when holding tha camera in hand. I used to feel the fan, quite badly, but now every vibration seems to be cancelled. I kept the original fan, just changed vibration pads with the same ones you have!
Thanks for this well done video. I do recommend soldering the wire splice for long term reliability. I did the switch on my 533MC Pro and measured the sound levels of of my old old fan and this new fan with the Decibel X app on the iPhone and found the new fan 7 dB quieter . I expect that this will make a noticeable difference in my residual star shape elongation with sub half arc second guiding.
Thanks! I ended up buying a soldering kit and some heat wraps for the cables. I went back and redid both of my cameras, and as you said they are much better now.
Thank you so much for this super informative video! 🙏🏼
You are very welcome!
Excellent video. First time I'm seeing your channel and great timing for me. The fan in my 071mc pro just went out. I noticed in the last imaging session that my stars were slightly elongated, even at 525mm configuration (edgeHD 9.25 w/HyperStar) and with some of the best guiding I've had in a long time. Didn't even think to connect the "elongated dots" until seeing your video. I already picked up the zwo replacement fan but like the Noctua design. Will switch it out if I'm still seeing the issue. Just a humble recommendation Rob, the electric tape isn't going to last. Would recommend solder and heat shrink tubing. Cheers and subscribed.
Thanks Gerry! I did buy a solder and heat shrink kit after this video and have redone one camera and will do the second one today. If you end up needing to replace the fan take a look at Fractal Design’s fans, I am testing one now and it seems to have noticeably less vibration. Clear Skies!
Just curious, do you have links to these products? Looking for the kit with all the parts really.
Great tutorial video how to replace the fan adding extra vibration dampening. Tested my 1600mm pro 1min subs with fan off, fan and guiding off and then fan and guiding on, compared the result and my rig does not suffer from vibrating fan. But I found that I probably have slightly to much back focusing. Investigation continues.
That is good to hear. In my research I actually didn't notice anyone having issues with the 1600MM, that camera is a workhorse! I wonder if they changed fans on the newer cameras? Good luck with the investigation. What scope are you using?
@@Robservatory the scope is a Sky-Watcher 200PDS
I have yet to purchase a ZWO cooled camera. Is this a problem with all models. I'm looking at 533MC Pro and 294MC Pro.
I have an C8. Just got an ASIAir Plus about 6 weeks ago and a ASI585MC planetary camera. The camera has been fine but ASIAir software V2.1.1 10.74 doesn't like to plate solve when in native mode. Solved it by setting the camera BIN from 1 to 2. I'll use BIN 2 to find the targets. Knowing my luck I'll get a cooled camera with a bad fan. Thanks for posting your soltions.
Thanks for the video. Ordered the fan for my 6200
Double check the size, I believe the 6200 has a 50mm fan and the smaller sensor cameras have 40mm. Sorry, I just found that out.
I don’t think Noctua makes a 50mm, but Fractal Designs do and I think they may be even better, you can order the silicon Noctua mounts on their own as well.
@@Robservatory thanks for the heads up. I apperciate it
Great Video! I have the 294MC Pro and I could feel some vibration. After watching your video, I remembered, that I had this fan with the silicon plugs somewhere lying around and after some time, I found it. I changed the fans and the vibration is gone. Now I am curious, if and how my pictures will change. Unfortunately, there are a lot of clouds today, so I have to wait.
And just to make you a little bit jealous: I have a crimping-tool, so I could change the connector and it looks professional. Ok, you can't see it inside the camera ...
Good to hear it went smoothly! Yes, I am jealous. That was only my second time splicing a cable and then the moment I finished the video I remember I had a brand new soldering kit that I could have used. I think I will order a crimping kit and redo mine, because it is pretty janky at the moment haha.
@@Robservatory These crimping tools are pretty cheap on the big A. Not the best quality, but good enough for non professional use.
Thanks so much for the tip. I just did the upgrade on my 533MC Pro and it works flawlessly, no vibration is detectable any more. Will test it probably by the end of the week on my Celestron C8. By the way, you don’t need to cut and splice the cables: All you have to do is root them in the large gap at the top of the camera and the heat sink. Problem solved !
I found it fit very tight and I didn’t like how I had to stuff it all in. I ordered some cable sleeve couplers and a heat gun today to do a nicer job with the cables.
Thanks for this! On the final remark about M13, I’ve imaged that many times including two nights ago with my 533MM, (both short focal length and long / C8 2023mm), every time I’ve decided there’s no way Luminence should be added to the final image, even though I had the shots, as the RGB shots were more than plenty bright already even with just 2 min shots, and also it’s so bright, the Luminence with no filtering easily has two large of stars.
I think I will try a new version without the luminance data and see what happens, I have a feeling it will actually turn out better like you experienced as well.
Great video! Excellent for showing the trouble shooting process! QUESTION: You mention you added a luminance layer to your M13 image... How does one create an L-layer with a color camera? (or did you use a separate mono camera?)...Thanks again!
Thanks! Yes, I shot luminance with a mono camera and then combined it with OSC data. It didn't really help at all and honestly it may have made the image worse by washing out the colour somewhat. Star clusters probably don't need the extra luminance data, but I will try again on something with more detail.
Thanks!@@Robservatory
Thanks for video & is there any difference in cooling ?
i have same camera but i can't go under -7c degrees
I haven’t noticed any difference at all. I only cool to -10C these days, I used to go to -20 or -30 but with the newer sensors that much cooling isn’t required.
Hi , great video , I just make the same exactly upgrade fan to my asi071mc last month and still getting vibration , less but still vibrate with my C8 2032mm . the solution I find it’s to invert the fan and all vibration disappear without losing cooling eficiente ( pull the air instead pushing the air against the camera heatsink) , you can try to if you still have vibration/ oval stars . 😊
Interesting! That is a good tip, did you just reverse the polarity with the wiring or did you turn the fan upside down?
@@Robservatory just turn the fan upside down , 😉
Thank you🫡
Thanks for the fix tip. Is there somewhere we can see your astrophotos? Thanks,
My pleasure! I have a gallery on my website here www.supercreative.ca/photo/robservatory
just gave my 533mm a spin in hand, and could feel vibration from the fan when cooling.
although at my FL i wont suffer from it but might look at upgrade later for more efficient cooling in there
I think if you don't see an issue you don't need to change the fan, I wish I didn't have the issue.
@@Robservatory not at the moment i dont, but later i might look at options to reduce the fan howl :D
Very well explained, thanks for making this video. Question though, did you see this on the native 2000mm focal length or also on the 0.7 reduced focal length ?
Thank you. I saw it with and without the reducer. I actually took the reducer off to eliminate one more variable when troubleshooting my issue, it definitely made the issue more pronounced.
@@Robservatory Thanks, I am having the same problem on my Edge 8, so will check it out by turning of the cooler
Nice cluster image. :)
Thanks! I want to reprocess it, I think I can make it a little nicer.
Interesting video thanks. And that is an amazing pic! 👏👏
Thank you 🙏
Is this same fan used on all ZWO models? Thanks much.
Wish I could help you solder the wires and cover with some shrink tubing :).
I believe the 2600mm and 6200 mm use a 50mm fan and the smaller models are using 40mm. Amazon just delivered my cable splicing kit including heat shrink wraps and a heat gun :)
@@Robservatory Thanks! I have an ASI071MC and an ASI2600MM I would like to convert. Good luck with the new tools.
@@johnadastra1754 I have been trying a couple different fans and I would now recommend the Fractal Designs Silent Series, they are extremely silent and have noticeably lower vibration. They also come in the larger 50mm size for the ZWO cams with those nice big sensors!
I’ll have to look into this, I was shooting with my C9.25 @ f10 for the first time with my 533mcp and couldn’t figure out why I was getting perfect oval stars… I could not figure it out… it may be this
Really easy to check and fix thankfully!
The links don't show in your description....
I just did this mod and feeling the physical vibrations seem to have decreased. I haven’t had a chance to test it out though.
I have the same setup as you do except an edge hd 9.25. What do you use as your calibration step numbers and Ra and Dec aggression number for guiding? I’m having such a hard time with OAG guiding.
I’ll get back to you with my settings the next time I power it up. Mine has been guiding like a dream lately, sometimes as low as 0.3 RMS.
@@Robservatory That’s great guiding for such a large scope. When you get it powered up I’d definitely appreciate it if you got me the calibration and aggression numbers. Also, what guide camera do you use?
My settings are 500 ms for my calibration steps, RA max duration and Dec max duration. I use 1 second exposures and set my aggression differently depending on seeing conditions. I keep dec aggression backed off to around 20 and RA is typically around 45. When seeing is bad, I turn those up as needed. Hope that helps!
@@Robservatory awesome thanks. I’m gonna get the 174mm soon and I’ll use all your guide settings as a baseline.
@@user-jr1yj4rh7s Good luck, and make sure you get the mini version. Let me know how it goes!
I had the exact same problem and did the same mod. As a bonus I found a couple of tiny flies that probably didn't help either 😅.
I totally expected a few bugs and was surprised to not find any.
I put them in reverse and then everything presses and snaps into place.
I have a 294mc pro, when I touch the camera it seems to give the feeling of an electric shock, so I’m guessing this is vibration 😮
I have the exact same feeling on my new 533mc pro, when I touch it it goes away for a couple of seconds then start again.
How that fan cool down something way below 0°?
There is a thermo electric cooler built into the camera and the fan just helps. It can go -40 celsius below the ambient temperature.
@@Robservatory Ah ok, those black blades like radiator. Thank you.
now we just need way change this with out lose our minds, all joke a side, i realy hope zwo will take up this problem before give out new cameras in the future
11:57 You've carefully isolated the fan shroud from vibration. But not the camera body. The flat bits, which are currently seperating the fan shroud from the body, should be what the fan is pressing against on the inside of the camera body.
You should've pushed the silicon thingies through the holes in the camera body, then through the fan shroud, not just through the fan shroud. Then you don't need to add the little silicon rings.
You can see exactly what I mean if you pause at 12:40. The big flat brown disk should be where the little red ring is.
The flat brown ring doesn’t fit through the camera plate, this is the first reason I decided to mount the fan plate on the exterior of the cover. The second reason is because the 533 is very tight inside and the extra space created by not having the fan shroud inside was very welcome. The third reason it that I wanted the fan isolated from the camera, having it tight against the fan shroud and the camera body would be similar to the original design which wasn’t working.
@@Robservatory The flat brown ring doesn't need to fit through the camera plate. In fact, you don't want it to.
The pointy end, that you poked through the fan shroud, fits through the camera plate.
You just need to do that before poking it through the shroud.
@@fredmercury1314 The issue with that is there is no space below the fan, the round end would be tight between the fan and the heatsink. I had to trim the silicone mounts extremely tight to the fan to make sure it cleared the heatsink. I think in the larger cameras like the 2600 or 6200 that would be the way to go and work nicely.
Unfortunately, Noctua doesn't make 50mm x 10 fans, from when I looked into this. And most other brands aren't any better than stock. When I isolated the fan in my 6200, I ended up just staying with the stock one. I looked into the Fractal R3 and several others, but most of these don't move as much air as the stock, meaning you won't hit the same cooling temps when you're out in the heat. The stock Sunon fan is 4800 rpm 11CFM. The Fractal silent series 50mm is 3500 rpm and 6.8 CFM.
Good point! That big chip requires more cooling and depending on what climate you live in those rpms could make the difference. I’m still experimenting but so far the Fractal fans are doing the job, but I live in Canada and shoot a 1” sensor.
Glad you pointed out that the 50mmx10 isn't even made. Makes me feel better about not being able to find any.
seems to be prevalent with Celestron scopes
I think it is because Celestron are mostly large aperture, long focal length scopes and that is where it becomes an issue.
A truly NIGHTMARE.
A very small amount of cameras, just like the 2600 oil leak? 😂
The difference between the ZWO fan and the Noctua fan is noticeable, especially for those of us who use large focal lengths with SCT. I think it is advisable to change the fan preventively. Noctua's global quality is indisputable.
Must be great to be that rich.....
Yup, after the fix, the camera is ugly. But like they say... they all look the same in the dark. 8-)
Lol, exactly!!!
is this vibration even a real thing? i own 2 ZWO cameras, 1600MM Pro and 294MC Pro on an Edge HD 11 @ 2800mm FL F/10 and i have never witnessed this. and the fact that the cameras comE with a silicon washer means that this has already been thought about. Good luck voiding your warrenties everybody!
Yes, it is a real thing, that is the whole point of the video. It is good that you don’t have any issues with yours.
Yep real thing. And after the warranty, why not? And if you need warranty service, just put in another stock fan. No biggie.
Did you try to return this faulty product? You probably didn’t.
This is a problem. We just tolerate this and other behaviors of manufacturers from China.
People are glad that ZWO products are inexpensive. Reason is total absence of QC. Proper companies discard products after QC, if specs are unsatisfactory or not met. ZWO never does. This drives price down. Basically, they know that sheeit products will be bought and no retaliation will come their way.
I contacted customer support so that they know about the issue. I am sure they will replace the faulty fan. I bought a replacement and was shooting that night. If I had sent it back I would not be shooting at all. I have a mountain of ZWO products that I am vey satisfied with. I am sure if they get enough reports of this issue they will source different fans or demand a higher degree of QC from their supplier.
@@Robservatory Well, I am not so lucky with them.
This is an issue that I have mentioned. They sell some crap product and some Okish ones. Importantly, they know it and relying on people like you telling “oh, I have no problem with them”. It doesn’t change reality does it. read web about issues with their filter wheels, focusers, etc. I have had ASI294MM and been happy with it. But, I changed to QHY version. Well, difference is day and night.
Let’s see what you will be telling about their equipment in several years.
Did you ground yourself lool
Good stuff BUT cringe cringe cringe. If you look on Digikey or Mouser you will find the connector you need and pins to replace the original connector. If you must cut and splice, just google splicing two wires together. Don't use electrical tape, just use heat shrink tubing, much neater and will not come undone like electrical tape. Good fix other wise!
Got the heat shrink cables and both cams are now done properly. Thought I should let you know haha!
Whats 'Not cool' is lifting another channels intro graphics and music....
We both got them off the same stock template website, nobody lifted anything cool guy.
@@Robservatory Easy there, Rob. If that's the case then that stock site is probably suspect. I'll see if I can get Paul or any of his team in touch so they can get the information on that stock site.
It’s called Envato Elements, they sell everything including music, graphics, photos, videos, you name it. This is an After Effects template, mine is actually more customized from the original than other people who use the same one. I am guessing dozens to hundreds of people use this same intro for projects. I am a video producer so I will be doing a new intro, completely original, now that I am focusing solely on astronomy content. I’m just waiting until my observatory is finished in a couple weeks :)
I got to test this because I have been having some very similar issues, and I thought it was guiding issues... might still be, will need to test it without turning the fan on... asi183mc pro