A blank of blank and blank CANNOT leave soon enough. Not only does its make every single book sound the same and become difficult to differentiate between, but it also almost ALWAYS feels so forced and not remotely related to the actual plot but only chosen to fit the current trend of naming something with that formula. Definitely tired of it.
This whole series thing is relatively new . Writers used to write a stand alone book first and maybe write one or two follow ups over time. These days they get a contract for a series and have to deliver one book a year.
I write them, I'm trying to write bigger books but it's a little bit of a chore tbh. This is largely bc of my Aphantasia, or lack of internal visualizations, so writing novellas make it easier because descriptions don't have to be very long since I need to make it no longer than 40k words. Which is excellent for me since I can't be description heavy.
It is kinda odd, too, that short stories have generally been rare in fantasy but have always been extremely common in sci-fi (seriously- some of the greatest sci-fi “novels” are just really collections of short stories from the same universe). And sci-fi can require just as much world & universe building as fantasy. But the real issue I think is this - who is the star of your story? Is it your cast of characters? Or is it your world/universe/etc.? World building is fine, but it needs to be organic.
I'm ready for fae stories to phase out. Don't get me wrong, I've read several fae books that I've really enjoyed, and I don't want it to disappear, I just think the sexy fae hype trend has dominated the genre for the last few years and I like books that keep exploring new ideas rather than repeating the same ideas over and over again.
I like the fair folk as a concept, but I hate how modern fantasy romance (which I categorically do not read because I abhor romance as the main course instead of a side-dish or garnish) has given them the Twilight treatment by grossly misrepresenting them. I want them only to be romanceable if circumstance allows it, or even xenofiction in their own twisted perspective of blue-and-orange morality.
I still like fae stories, but not where "fae" is code for "bigger, better, and sexier than humans in every way" and it ends up being a kinkfest of power struggles, giant c*cks and daddy issues. Fae can still be done well, outside that very strange box.
Yeah I like older school Fae stuff like War for the Oaks which aren’t focused on romance or sex. The fae in them aren’t basically humans with big dicks and special powers, they’re actually pretty alien and scary.
I do not think this is a trend at all but one thing I'd love to see more of is a recap at the beginning of a sequel of the previous book. Ex: Hunger of the Gods had a 5-6 pages recap from what happened in book one. It was incredibly helpful to remember everything that happened in the first book as not everyone has the time to read the previous book again before the next one when they get released a year apart, and that is if you buy it right away at full price.
Authors and publishers are definitely aware that especially with direct narrative connection and a lot of characters to handle they are helpful to the readers, but authors also absolutely do not like writing them. At least the ones I talked to.
It's kind of funny that it took so long for book series to do this, when TV has been doing it for decades, and those episodes would only come out a week apart!
See this never bothered me cause I've always been the type of person to reread a book when I'm about to engage the sequel, rewatch the movie for the sequel, rewatch the whole series before the new season, replay the previous games before I play the new one kinda thing.
I have something I call the 700 problem. The overwhelming majority of books that I have read that are over 700 pages, definitely didn't need to be that long. This might be a hot take but I think most books that are over that length or just the author kind of showing off. Because most of them had at least 200 pages of fluff.
I think it depends on the number of POVs and scope of the plot. Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but the Mistborn books are something like 70% fluff. You could cut the chit chat on most pages and the story would be the same. But for the books in the First Law trilogy, there's almost no fluff at all. Every conversation either moves the plot or develops the characters.
I think it might depend. Like, if we look at ASOIF, that story is just so big wuth so many facets that intertwine with eachother, you kinda have to have long books in order to tell the story properly. In another sense, i personally had a feeling WOT had a lot of fluff with like 100 pages that could have been cut, but it did help the weight of the situation sink in. Sometimes you need a lot of pages so thst it doesnt feel like the story is just rushing past
At least 200 pages of fluff. Some authors have whole books of fluff eg Eragon. In my native language an author wrote in a serie several fluff book why I personally stopped reading him.
I'm afraid the cost of novellas is a bit prohibitive. I don't want to pay that much money for something that takes me only a couple of days to read. I do buy novellas, but only on Kindle. Some of my favorite novels of the past five years have been myth retellings: Circe, The Witch's Heart, Kaikeyi, and (most recently) Ithaca. As long as they have strong prose and interesting heroines, I'll read them. But I do agree, writers need to start moving beyond Greece/Rome in their search for myths to retell.
Agreed! I don’t have the money to spend £12 on a 100 page book that will take less than 2 hours to read 😅 I’ve been listening to a lot on audiobook. And I would also love more retellings from African, Asian and native cultures 😄
I believe its already started, but COZY FANTASY is about to blow up in traditional publishing. It has always had its audience, but they are going to over-saturate the market because they are always behind and have not had a chance to get their best book out in that genre.
@ella-gz4fj That is pretty close. It affects a smaller scale and usually has a heart warming ending. There can definitely be loss, but it's more personal for the protagonist rather than large scale, yes. T J Klune is another author who has been successful at cozy, but his novels can seem a little formulaic after you read a couple.
Sadly, my Barnes and Noble (the main bookstore where I live) doesn't separate fantasy romance, so it's all mixed in. I wish it was separate so I know when I go to the fantasy section what to expect.
Agree. I think true Fantasy Romance (where the romance is a main plot line) should be shelved with Romance rather than the Fantasy/Sci-Fi if they can’t have their own section altogether. This would help those that are looking for those books find them easier and those that don’t want them, avoid them easier.
If the fantasy book is written by a woman, then 90% of the time it's going to have some kind of romantic plotline, but I guess they don't belong. You can also usually tell if the fantasy book has a romantic plotline by the covers . There are "fantasy romance" books that have intricate worlds, but it's ignored and they need to be removed immediately from the fantasy section just because it has a romantic plotline rather than a bloody one. I've read very few fantasy romance books that don't get bloody themselves.
One trend that I've noticed recently and that I fully support is older, out of print books (especially by women) getting re-released. For example, a whole bunch of older OOP books by Martha Wells are being re-released by TOR, and the Doctrine of Labyrinths series is getting an e-book re-release.
Absolutely agree. It's great seeing some of the classic authors, and the ones that didn't necessarily get the hype they deserved, getting a second wind
I fully support more cozy fantasy. I enjoy a good fantasy with harder topics, but most of the time I want something that isn’t going to cause more stress in my life lol
I love a good, long book. You know, as long as it's interesting and of a decent quality. I can honestly say I wouldn't want a single page cut from any of the Stormlight books. Conversely, it takes a special author, such as T Kingfisher, for me to consider reading a book under 450 pages. I realise I'm probably in the minority, but I just love getting totally lost in a fantastic fictional world. If it's a really good book, I never want it to end!
I'm the same!! Sometimes when I'm listening to audiobooks (when I'm too exhausted to read) I don't consider getting audiobooks under 10h. If they go past 20h I'm getting excited. If a story is good, I want to stay in this world for as long as possible.
I’m the same! It takes a lot of mental energy for me to get into a new world with new characters, so I want to milk it for all it’s got! With short books sometimes I struggle to feel like the initial energy it took to get into the world was worth it.
I was hunting through my parents' collection of old SFF books the other day, and I was struck that a lot of those books from the 50s through the 70s were under 300 pages. It seems like publishers focusing on really long books was a more recent trend than I'd realized.
Something I learned in Uni...the impact of word processing software on fiction! It seems that having to manualy type (and proof read and revise and correct!) a story was so time consuming and laborious that it limited manuscript length, neccesitating authors learn to craft tight etconimical stories.
I find that smaller fantasy books are the more creative and original experiences, because the authors have to rely on other things to bring the story to life. When you see a tome of a thousand pages, you can pretty easily guess that it's about a war/political struggle. The one exception to this I can think of is The Name of the Wind. If you look at the works of Gene Wolfe, Ursula K. Le Guin and Terry Pratchett, their most famous works are books that can only be described as _them._ I really think shorter stories are the true signifier of an author's capabilities, especially in fantasy. This isn't a book I've read, but I know people love The Emperor's Soul because, as bookswithzara once told me, it's Brandon Sanderson without the bullshit.
However, I would say a really long story that doesn't have a bunch of bullshit is the ultimate testament to skill. It's not hard to come up with enough plot material to fill 800 pages, but it's hard to make it all relevant.
i need standalones (novella or not) bc the moment i hear that a book i have on my tbr is planned to be the first of a trilogy, i instantly feel exhausted without having even read the book yet lol i think a trend that i want to either start or to stay are duologies because a trilogy/saga/8+ books is too much of a commitment if i end up not even enjoying the story but feel like i have to finish it (sunk cost fallacy i guess). but duologies are that perfect middle where i can read the first book and think "well even if it wasn't spectacular, at least it's just one more book to finish the story. and maybe the second book will actually make the first book better." some of my favorite books are duologies bc i feel like that's a perfect amount of time for the author to write a plot + worldbuilding without feeling like they're trying to reach a word count with filler. and to answer the most important question: yes, if it's the main course, mac is in a bowl. if it's a side, it's on the plate with the rest of the food.
I love a long series, maybe I’m psycho, but having a whole world to get lost into for a long time is so relaxing; although standalones that are set in the same world of another series (like Joe Abercrombies in between first law and age of madness) might be my favorite. You can have a rather quick but compelling story in one book while keeping some of that familiar world and character intrigue around
Maybe an unpopular opinion? I want all the length in books. I'm such a fast reader, I hate buying a book that only takes me 4-6 hours to finish. I want the longest books so that I can be immersed for as long as possible
I think writers should not worry about whats popular as a trend and just focus on writing a good story. Chasing trends for any industry is normally a losing battle. If you write well people will buy it personally im never looking for something in particular, just a solid story even if its been done before.
I definitely don't mind the novella trend. I've always struggled with short story collections (because if it's good, then I'm unsatisfied that it's so short), unless it's a little in between bit in a larger series. But my genres of interest have become really varied over the last few years, and I like having a more digestible fantasy option when I'm in the middle of other things and don't have the head space for a chunky tome. Which is also how I feel about cozy fantasy, lol.
Lois McMaster Bujold's "Penric" novella series is amazing. Her characters are so loveable and there is definite character progression through the series.
I'm so used to long titles because of Light Novels and Manhwa so it doesn't faze me anymore 😂 but I definitely see how those long titles can be a bit much to people. For the novella debate, I think it personally depends on the type of story we're getting into. I can't imagine a story like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings being contained to a short amount of pages. But a story like The Princess Bride works perfectly as a self-contained novel because of the content. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it's more of the scope of the story that makes me feel like it should be short/long.
Ya, they are long there largely due to quirks of how web novel sites work and are used in Japan. It is not as clear-cut as it used to be, but you would usually guess fairly easily which LN and manga were originally WN based on the title length. The oldest WN being the exception to that rule, but now the lengthy title is spreading.
I just started reading again after I bought myself a Kindle for Christmas and it's interesting to hear people talk about trends when I just got back into reading. Novellas and Stand Alones I feel are amazing for the genre. None of my friends will read a book longer than 500 pages and series intimidate and scare people away. Having a lot of stand alones brings people into the genre but I understand if people feel like it's becoming a bit overdone. And bowls for Mac and Cheese only. It stays hotter for longer in a bowl cause there is less air moving around the mac to cool it down.
There are also the novellas that are also a series! The Murderbot Chronicles by Martha Wells (5 novellas and a novel with another novel coming later this year), Wayward Children by Seanan McGuire (8 novellas) and Monk & Robot by Becky Chambers (2 novellas).
I would like to see writers, and people in general, not a give a flying fuck about trends or industry standards or what is popular and make something original and true to the artist vision.
You just put into words something that I've been trying to for a really long time. Cozy fantasy IS a pushback against a grim dark. I never realized why I liked it so much before, but now I see that it's because I hated all of that grossness and cozy fantasy was away for me to enjoy my favorite genre (fantasy) without all that other stuff getting in the way. Not that I don't enjoy any darkness in my fantasy, but like you said it's hard to pull off.
I’m in France and a « romantacy » bookstore actually opened in my city. They do have more general fantasy but still heavily focused on fantasy romance. Also I’ve noticed that the French publishing market has recently adopted the hardback format (not something we really have) with the pretty edges etc. They call them « collector editions » but they can be found in bookstores for a bit more euros but not the same increase you can have with English book boxes. I’d say a mix of both but more leaning toward the regular hardback, just a bit boosted It is mostly for YA/ fantasy books or fantasy romance from what I saw.
the length of the book depends on the story. Some stories can be told in fewer pages, while others need a world & have many characters and intertwining plots all playing out at the same time. Those will be longer.
I also want more standalones, sometimes I want a break from a series without starting a new one. Recently I read Sword of Kaigen and enjoyed it a lot. It is not fantasy but I really like Blake Courch’s standalone SF thrillers. Wish there were equivalent fantasy books.
I have a problem with standalones and novellas because I am exactly that reader that falls in love with worlds and settings. I juat need more of that world. I need to explore it, see the different variations and iterations of it. Every detail is a new path to take and I want them all. I never feel satisfied with short works, in fact if I fall in love with a work and it ends too quickly (whter the story was finished or not) I just feel very depressed, like... it's over. That was so nice and interesting and amazing, and it's already over. I wasn't ready to leave, but I have to. That's probably not a healthy thing, but I read books and experience stories as a way to cope with my other stressors, it is my balance against life, and I think that's entirely valid. I just need long series - hell, I'll accept the slow decline into formulation if I have to, I'd rather get tired of a series and stop reading it than it end before I'm done. This is my escape, I don't want to have to leave. I don't want to need another different world either. I always hear this "but now you're done and there are so many ither amazing worlds out there and you can go to those." I don't want other worlds, the one I had was great. And oftentimes those other worlds people suggest to me are actually really uninteresting or honestly not that great, so now I'm adrift on the tumultuous oceans seeking anew world to escape to, not getting the escape I need to balance against my daily life. I'd muchrather have one big world forever than several smaller worlds separated by vast wastes of garbage, even if I could have thousands of them. I love writer like Tolkien who fall jn love with their world and give us so many stories and then trailing off into little notes and asides and shorts in that same world. That's what I love and want.
I also hope fantasy romance stops just getting labled as just fantasy. Online and in book stores. It feels like people are afraid to label their book a romance, even if that is the main plot. And then i, who just want a regular flavor fantasy book get stuck accidentally reading smut when i wasn't looking for that at all. If you wrote a fantasy romance, own it! They're super popular! Label your book as such!
I am so with you about the witcher series! Short Stories >>> Saga.I love series in general too but I love a good standalone every now and then to switch it up!
The massive size of some fantasy books is what kept me from picking up the genre for so long. I actually started with some young adult and fantasy romance that were a lot smaller. And the whole thing with series kinda gets overwhelming. I just wanna read one or two and be good. The sheer size of the series for wheel of time made it a pass for me. And I definitely will be glad to see the name trend thing go. Originally I felt like it was kinda crappy that everyone used that format. Because some of the titles are so similar if someone say “hey check out this book” you go to the store or library and look for it and end up with something similar but not the right one? It almost seems deceitful in a way. That’s probably a bit harsh of a take but it’s kinda how I thought about it.
Alright, I disagree with getting rid of one-shot novellas, because I struggled to suggest a fantasy book to my friend, he only wanted a taste, but I couldn't recommend anything because all fantasy books were part of a series.
I also feel like cozy fantasy is influenced by the growing popularity of anime and manga. Having fantasy-setting cozy "slice of life" type stories has long been popular in anime/manga, and I feel like that has influenced western media more and more.
At the end of 2021, when I was sick with that thing so many of us had, I read an entire series of fantasy cozy mysteries. It was entertaining and light and saved my sanity. I still need to check out the cozy fantasy books you've mentioned.
I'm really curious about what exactly you and others commenting here mean by "novellas." As someone who's been writing for a couple of decades now, I'm confused because the standard publishing definition of "novella" is anything from 20,000 to 49,999 words. We're talking 50-150 pages here. Nettle and Bone is 272 pages; it's in no way a novella. Someone, please enlighten me.
Mac & cheese is all about the consistency. If it’s soupy, like off the shelf Kraft Mac and cheese, it goes in a bowl. If it’s thick and rich where it won’t pool out, plate. Either way as long as you have a little hot sauce, it’s good eating.
A trend I want to disappear is the "first-book-in-a-series secret". I don't understand why publishers hide the fact that a book is the first in a series when they market a new release, it actually makes me angrier when I learn about it and I don't pick those books up. Make it clear that it's book 1 and let me decide if I want to pick a series, don't try to trick me.
I know it’s kind of a bare minimum comment but I’m glad we’re not talking disdainfully about fantasy romance. So often people bring it up on the assumption that it’s a depthless, lesser form of the genre, which put most simply, isn’t very nice and is also simply not true. I do think that clearly defining which version it is will help readers greatly, and probably even lessen some of the in-fighting about genre lines.
The excessively long titles started as a trend in Anime series, and Japanese light novels. It didn't seem to take long before it was adopted by many others.
One thing that I also think has lead to the increase in number of novellas is the growth of audiobooks and ebooks (and their accessibility via various subscribtions & apps like libby, KU scribd etc) makes them more accessible to people. because as you said they tend to feel kind of expensive for the page count but and audiobook I can finish in an afternoon of chores feels incredibly accessible.
Mac and cheese is streight out of the pot, over the sink like a true adult. Also the long title is due to Light Novels I think. "That time I got reincarnated as a slime." "Is It Wrong to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?" "I'm A Behemoth, An S-Ranked Monster, But Mistaken For A Cat, I Live As An Elf Girl's Pet" Real light novel titles.
@@Basileus127 I am aware my husband is addicted to them lol. Many of them are really good and very fluffy, I just can't get over the formating most of the time. XD
Another good thing about novellas is that they can be a good intro to a new author. For instance, if there's an author someone wants to try, but they've got a whole bunch of large sci-fi or fantasy novels, but the reader doesn't know if they'd like said author's writing style, for example, if that author has novellas as well, the reader can start there and decide weather they want to continue with the author's bigger works.
As far as mythological retelling goes, Roger Zelazny is the king. He's retold myths from China (Lord Demon), Egypt (Creatures of Light and Darkness), Greece (And Call Me Conrad), Hindu (Lord of Light), Navajo (Eye of Cat), Norse (The Mask of Loki), and a mix (The Dream Master). Covers em all! (well, a lot anyway).
Don't know if it has anything to do with the English-speaking market, but very long titels are a trend for years now with japanese light-novels, a lot of which were translated, and maybe it had an influence that it seemed more "ok" to have a long title? Also, I love novellas x3 They let me try the author's writing style without having to commit to a series. What I really don't like about that trend is that even the e-book-version of them can be ridicucoulsy expansive. I get that the unit prices in printing sky-rocket with short books, but why the digital version, too? (I'm looking at you, tor...) aaaaalso the special editions ... in some cases, like with the novellas from Fonda Lee in the Green-Bone-Saga-Universe, there are only very very very expansive print versions and no digital version at all. Especially for international readers were shipping alone costs often times more than the book itself, that's just mean. :'D
I like the idea of a new adult marketing bracket (I don't think of NA as a genre the way I think of fantasy and romance.) I like it not only because my fantasy book written with 25-35-year-olds in mind, but because it opens up themes that are more relevant to me than, say, shooting a faire and having to go be his brother's lover. It's great that SJM made bank monetizing a fantasy like that, but NA gives me freedom to explore themes that real-world adults have. Like chronic loneliness, personal stagnation, and crippling debt. And if romance develops, it can feel more natural than contracted bondage. Like the relationship was developed by consenting adults who, you know, liked each other.
I normally shy away from short stories that aren't tied to an existing series because I rarely read one that has character development, world building, and a well developed plot in the limited space. I'm a little more willing to try a novella that's a stand-alone because there's a bit more room to fit everything in. Becky Chambers' last few novellas are great examples of everything I want in a smaller package. Bonus that a couple are Cozy SciFi.
I need cosy fantasy to stick around for a good long while yet, because I'm really enjoying that subgenre! Sometimes it's exactly what you need, something sweet and lovely that leaves you feeling good.
A lot of the earliest modern fantasy (late 19th century up to the 1940's or so) was in fact _heavy_ with novellas (both in serial form and single published novella form) - it was Tolkien who started the thick tome trend of fantasy novels. So it could be said the novella trend is just the genre going back to its roots.
On the topic of long titles: have you ever watched anime or read manga or Chinese or Korean novels? Because there are titles like “that time I was reincarnated as a slime” or “Reincarnated in another world with my smartphone” or “I’m the only one with genius DNA” or “An obseravtion log of my wide - a self proclaimed villainess” and I think that’s actually where those long titles come from
I just finished Godkiller because of your recommend and really enjoyed it. The world building was amazing to me but it’s shorter than a lot of fantasy so I definitely think it can be done!
A book series that I highly recommend is "Under the Oak Tree" by Suji Kim. It's a translation of the Korean webnovel from Ridi Books, so the series is divided in parts. Currently there are 7 but each book is about 360 pages long. A great Fantasy Romance with a corresponding webtoon on Manta comics. It's actually the series that pulled me back into reading.
I've read so many books lately where it could have easily lost at least 100 pages, if not more than that. Fourth Wing and Gilded didn't need to be over 500 pages. Then you compare that to the quality of the Murderbot novellas, and I love that Martha Wells can tell so many cool stories and take us through different arcs in the 5 novellas/1 novel, which all combined equal like one of those massive tomes.
I really believe that shorter stories and stand alone books are here to stay. I believe so mainly because we see time and time again that the attention span of people is shortening, therefore I wouldn't be surprised that stories which involve less commitment will be the main trend in some years. This is not to say that shorter/longer series are better nor worse, I believe that it is independent of the book "quality".
The JP light novel reader in me just took a long sip at the Irregular Witches mention. That is long? Ok, for western standards it is. For an LN it would be a blessing from the gods.
I'm very happy about the shorter fantasy novels coming out. As far as I'm aware, high fantasy novels tend to be massive and wordy due to J R Tolkien being set as the "ultimate" fantasy author for such a long time, so it's seen as sort of standard. But for me and a lot of other people, that writing style is exactly why I've largely stayed away from high fantasy for most of my life. I haaaaate pages of character musings that tell us nothing and get us nowhere and paragraph length descriptions of things that could have been a sentence. I have a very poor working memory, so that time spent away from continuing the plot, leaves me needing to go back and re-read what the characters are even doing in the first place. I hope it's something that stays and I hope it'll help tame the erm snootery haha of some high fantasy readers.
I print my books through the same source that many of the big publishers do. The cover is about 1.30 for average paperbacks. The cost per page is .014 per page. Anything under a hundred pages then the cover is the main cost, setting minimum price for the book regardless of size. Larger books the page price is more important. This said, I think publishers, price shorter works higher because they can, and they get to keep the extra margin. The size of the order only comes into play when you order more than a hundred copies when discounts begin at 2%.
I love reading and writing novellas, but my main genres are modern/contemporary paranormal romance and urban fantasy, and they just don't always need to be 50k-80k words when many of these stories could be amazing, tighter concepts and reader experiences at like 40k and under!
There's a trend I've been noticing that, unfortunately, I don't think is going anywhere: the Incest plot line. It just keeps popping up, and sometimes it's written like it's supposed to be romantic.
The vampire renaissance is another trend that's worth mentioning. Also idk if it's a worldwide trend or just in the german fantasy book publishing world, but books that are set in academies/schools are a huge trend. Fourth Wing is the biggest international example I can think of, but there are at least 4 or 5 upcoming fantasy series by german authors that take place in a fantasy school and have "Something Academy" in the title. Another trend is the romance book genre being hyped since covid (which also plays into your theory of people needing cozy stories during hard times in their lives). Also regarding the length of books: it hasn't reached the romance authors yet but a lot of romance readers are complaining about overly long romances. Which I get, who needs 500 pages to bring 2 people together when romance books managed to do that in less than 300 pages just a few years ago.
I completely agree with your assumptions about cozy fantasy. And until the trend is no longer financially viable for publishers we won't really see any honest and original stories within the sub genre. But we shall see. I love hearing your takes and you help me so much when it comes to navigating the parts of the fantasy zeitgeist that I can't keep follow on my own
I am in favor of novellas. Some stories work best at that length. Some authors write particularly well at that length: Elizabeth Hand and Lucius Shepard, for example. I wish a publisher would revive the doubles format, as used by Ace. It involves the tête-bêche format, you know! It was revived by Tor about 40 years ago, and perhaps Tor is the right publisher to re-revive the format. If you think that two novellas in one volume would be interesting, look up Ace Doubles.
One of the features I'll be incorporating into the second/final story arc of my Waves of Darkness series is to go on the premise that many obscure hunting goddesses were actually an elite group of vampire enforcers.
Novellas & short books are too expensive. I can't pay that much for a book that Im going to finish in a day and sf/fantasy books are **rare** at my library .
I totally agree on all of these points. Especially regarding the one about the length of fantasy novels. I love a good long book, one in which you’re so invested and you know you have so many pages to digest. But unfortunately many books are longer than they need to be, which I instead find disengaging because I get bored. Authors, please don’t write books to be long for the sake of being long, only write it when necessary!
IIRC the Frugal Wizards handbook has the long title because its an Isekai and Japanese light novel often have very long titles because the web site that tended to be where they got shown off first didn't show descriptions in its list so the authors put the description in the title. And Japanese Light Novels are mostly Isekai (i.e Portal Fantasy.).
You think those are long titles? They aren't long titles. _These_ are long titles: _Gulliver's Travels, or Travels into Several Remote Nations of the World. In Four Parts. By Lemuel Gulliver, First a Surgeon, and then a Captain of Several Ships_ or _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque; Having been cast on Shore by Shipwreck, wherein all the Men perished but himself. With An Account how he was at last as strangely deliver'd by Pyrates. Written by Himself._
I think people have come to associate shorter books with YA and longer ones with adult books. So they might think that cause it’s shorter the writing will be more juvenile or toned down for younger audiences.
I'm making a comic not writing a book but all the advice is basically the same for both so i really enjoy book writing/ trope videos. I am currently in the process of making a comic based on Slavic mythology (percy jackson/the witcher vibes) and im planning to make a couple one part stand alone stories that introduce you to this world but are not plot heavy so you can just enjoy them kinda like novellas. I think short sozy stories can really pull you into a fantasy world without being overwhelming so i'm gonna try to do that. And if that doesn't work at least someone can enjoy a short fantasy story with no obligation to read anything further lol
I personally wish cozy fantasy would go away. It’s like reading contemporary slice of life fiction… and it really bores me. No substance and just fluff. As for romance fantasy- I think that should stay in the romance section of the bookshelves. I like reading in-depth characters (usually that’s what long fantasy books brought) while the romance fantasy is usually very YA feel to them and very explicit. I don’t mind a spicy scene or two… but I don’t like it when it gets in the way of the plot. 🤷♀️
We did fairy tale retellings, moved onto mythology, and seem to be heading towards Shakespeare and Jane Austen retellings. (From what I've seen, anyway.)
Girl Who Fell Beneath the Sea is a great retelling of a Korean folk tale that I highly recommend! I ended up reading it in like two days I liked it so much
I love a good novella if it's done well! I know that Tor started their novella program where the authors had a lot of control over what they wrote, in exchange for maybe a smaller paycheck/advance. That's how I understood it when Seanan McGuire was talking about it?? But from Tor alone, that's where Murderbot, Wayward Children, Monk & Robot, and more super popular novella series from well loved authors came from. I wonder if the uptick in novellas is partially due to that program and/or due to the success of those series
Regarding cozy fantasy - cozy mystery has been around for decades and remains both huge and suuuuper cozy. I kind of think cozy mystery will catch a similar wave and be in for the long haul. Maybe?
Maybe. On the other hand, I think that part of the reason there are so many cozy mysteries is that there's a "formula" to them that makes them relatively easy to write and to read. I don't know that there's as much of a formula for cozy fantasy.
I don’t think that’s fair either to cozy mystery as a sub-genre or to authors. Some cozies are formulaic but many are not. From my perspective, these kind of attitudes, that devalue an entire sub-genre, are the same thing that litfic readers use to devalue all of fantasy and sci-fi. I don’t read romance but I’m confident that there are some amazing authors writing in the genre. I, for instance, often read the books in the short list for prizes like the Booker or the Women’s Prize, but every year I get mad all over again that genre books aren’t considered. It’s a big world with many ways to tell stories. Demeaning a sub-genre is a way to choke voices out. For me, that is at cross purposes with everything that reading does for me.
@@arlissbunny I didn't mean to devalue or put down cozy mysteries; that wasn't my point. Maybe "formula" wasn't the best word (which is why I put it in quotes). I just meant that, when you pick up a cozy mystery, you have some idea of what kind of story you're going to get: the plot is going to revolve around solving a mystery (usually a murder). On the other hand, just telling me that a book is a cozy fantasy doesn't really give me much of an idea what it's about.
Understandable. I suspect that cozy mystery is a bit more broad than lots of folks realize but, as with either a traditional or historical mystery, there will be a mystery to be solved. You are right about cozy fantasy being a broad classification but as it develops more over the next couple of years I think we’ll start to find some fairly similar tropes. But that does remain you be seen. Thank you for understanding my earlier point. I feel like readers who value and understand the depth and weight of the best of genre fiction really do need to protect (I don’t know if that’s the right word) these genres from the casual debasement that is routine from the litfic community. You are commenting on the video of a fantasy content creator so I’m going to guess that you and I are not far apart on this.
Novellas used to be far more common in F&SF back when there were magazines, and they were divided across 2-3 issues. And tomes like Dhalgren and Stand on Zanzibar were outliers on the length scale.
RE: page count. The FIRST thing I learned about writing is that the best writing communicates using the fewest number of words possible without lacking any quality information. Cover all the bases efficiently and don't leave out anything important.
With your first point, I'm the total opposite. I am far more likely to pick up a book that is a novella or less than 400 pages than something that is 700+. Single books with huge page counts are intimidating to me
I’m on board with Romantasy getting its own section in stores and searches. There are times I want nothing to do with it and don’t want to accidentally pick it up, not realizing it. Sometimes, I just want my Fantasy Hack & Slash without the Kissy Face.
Novellas used to be common, but in a different format; short stories. Often a few short stories were put together into a full book. Robin McKinley has a bunch of what might be marketed individually now as novellas, but were a bunch of short stories put together in one book volume. Short stories are novellas are great for giving side characters their own story, especially if you loved the world and/or the characters of the main book/series.
I've never seen one of your videos, I have no idea who you are, I don't know why the algorithm offered me this video... But I will FOREVER fight alongside you on the mac & cheese bowl vs plate issue! You nailed it
Ah! I have only seen one 'cozy fantasy' Ineed some suggestions! I hope it expands for a while, I was never really a huge fan of the grim-dark, and I love things like cozy mysteries so many cozy fantasy could trend in a similar kind of way in finding something semi-exciting or mysterious to pair with the chill vibe. The problem I could see is the same for grim-dark, I don't re-read grim-dark and I rarely re-read cozy mysteries, so unless a cozy fantasy was above and beyond it'd probably be a romp and drop kind'a book.
I'm with you soooooo much on the page count thing. I love world building but page length is not indicative of good story or good world building and I'm really over this idea that epic fantasy needs to be a huge word count.
To me when it comes to novellas it is two things that deter me: one, I don't like paying so much for such a short book. Two, I feel in most cases they are just not long enough. I have read novellas and most of the time they just feel lacking, like it needed much more world building or character development or they feel rushed or just something than what we got. So I just end up disappointed. BUT there has a couple of smaller novels/novellas that I have found and enjoyed, but most cases I do not like reading anything less than 300.
I bet a lot of writers did similar to what Brandon Sanderson did during lockdown, but instead of full novels, they took some time to develop some other ideas into novellas.
I was eating a bowl of mac n cheese while watching this, and yes, it was in a bowl. As for "A Blank of Blank and Blank" as a title trend, I genuinely can't tell any of them apart. I have no idea who wrote which or which goes in what series, and that's the danger of copying popular trends.
I'm sure it is generally true that if an author has a good selling book, publishers get excited about them doing a series and start seeing $$ flash in front of their eyes...but you make a good point that several of the biggest sellers in fantasy to date haven't and maybe won't finish their series. Through no fault of his own Robert Jordan wasn't able to finish his even, so we're right lucky Sanderson gave us an ending to WoT. I wonder if publishers have started worrying about having to leave a big series unfinished, or of they don't care so long as the books that are finished sell well.
A blank of blank and blank CANNOT leave soon enough. Not only does its make every single book sound the same and become difficult to differentiate between, but it also almost ALWAYS feels so forced and not remotely related to the actual plot but only chosen to fit the current trend of naming something with that formula. Definitely tired of it.
I have a friend who's a fantasy author.
I'm trying to convince him to name his next book ' A plate of Mac and Cheese 😂
not to mention its just cringe in general. like... they just sound sooooo pretentious and cringeyyyy
a wardrobe of lions and witches
A Fart of Crud and Balderdash
YES!
I'm definitely a fan of standalones being more of a thing in SFF.
Amen to that!
This whole series thing is relatively new . Writers used to write a stand alone book first and maybe write one or two follow ups over time. These days they get a contract for a series and have to deliver one book a year.
I love novellas. It forces writers to improve their writing, as opposed to some books that are bloated and unpleasant.
100%. It reveals their narrative competence.
I like them for when I'm in a reading slump as well, it gives me the sense of achievement more easily than a giant, ponderous novel!
I write them, I'm trying to write bigger books but it's a little bit of a chore tbh. This is largely bc of my Aphantasia, or lack of internal visualizations, so writing novellas make it easier because descriptions don't have to be very long since I need to make it no longer than 40k words. Which is excellent for me since I can't be description heavy.
It is kinda odd, too, that short stories have generally been rare in fantasy but have always been extremely common in sci-fi (seriously- some of the greatest sci-fi “novels” are just really collections of short stories from the same universe). And sci-fi can require just as much world & universe building as fantasy. But the real issue I think is this - who is the star of your story? Is it your cast of characters? Or is it your world/universe/etc.? World building is fine, but it needs to be organic.
I just wish they were cheaper. It throws me off when I see a 90 page books at the same price as the 1000+ page books
I'm ready for fae stories to phase out. Don't get me wrong, I've read several fae books that I've really enjoyed, and I don't want it to disappear, I just think the sexy fae hype trend has dominated the genre for the last few years and I like books that keep exploring new ideas rather than repeating the same ideas over and over again.
I think dragon books will be on the rise after fourth wing 😂
@@nicolehatton4534true
I like the fair folk as a concept, but I hate how modern fantasy romance (which I categorically do not read because I abhor romance as the main course instead of a side-dish or garnish) has given them the Twilight treatment by grossly misrepresenting them. I want them only to be romanceable if circumstance allows it, or even xenofiction in their own twisted perspective of blue-and-orange morality.
I still like fae stories, but not where "fae" is code for "bigger, better, and sexier than humans in every way" and it ends up being a kinkfest of power struggles, giant c*cks and daddy issues. Fae can still be done well, outside that very strange box.
Yeah I like older school Fae stuff like War for the Oaks which aren’t focused on romance or sex. The fae in them aren’t basically humans with big dicks and special powers, they’re actually pretty alien and scary.
I do not think this is a trend at all but one thing I'd love to see more of is a recap at the beginning of a sequel of the previous book. Ex: Hunger of the Gods had a 5-6 pages recap from what happened in book one. It was incredibly helpful to remember everything that happened in the first book as not everyone has the time to read the previous book again before the next one when they get released a year apart, and that is if you buy it right away at full price.
Yes yes ESPECIALLY when the books are released a year or more apart. Would LOVE a “last time on…” section in all series
Authors and publishers are definitely aware that especially with direct narrative connection and a lot of characters to handle they are helpful to the readers, but authors also absolutely do not like writing them. At least the ones I talked to.
It's kind of funny that it took so long for book series to do this, when TV has been doing it for decades, and those episodes would only come out a week apart!
See this never bothered me cause I've always been the type of person to reread a book when I'm about to engage the sequel, rewatch the movie for the sequel, rewatch the whole series before the new season, replay the previous games before I play the new one kinda thing.
I don't remember the titles, but I read one years ago that reprinted the last few pages of the previous book.
I have something I call the 700 problem. The overwhelming majority of books that I have read that are over 700 pages, definitely didn't need to be that long. This might be a hot take but I think most books that are over that length or just the author kind of showing off. Because most of them had at least 200 pages of fluff.
I think it depends on the number of POVs and scope of the plot. Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but the Mistborn books are something like 70% fluff. You could cut the chit chat on most pages and the story would be the same. But for the books in the First Law trilogy, there's almost no fluff at all. Every conversation either moves the plot or develops the characters.
I think it might depend. Like, if we look at ASOIF, that story is just so big wuth so many facets that intertwine with eachother, you kinda have to have long books in order to tell the story properly. In another sense, i personally had a feeling WOT had a lot of fluff with like 100 pages that could have been cut, but it did help the weight of the situation sink in. Sometimes you need a lot of pages so thst it doesnt feel like the story is just rushing past
@@callnight1441 yeah I just finished Clash of Kings and posted a review. It's over 1,000 pages and I actually felt like George utilize all of them
@J.R.Carrel wait until you get to Storm of Swords😉. So many cool events in there and definitely needing all 1000 pages
At least 200 pages of fluff. Some authors have whole books of fluff eg Eragon. In my native language an author wrote in a serie several fluff book why I personally stopped reading him.
I'm afraid the cost of novellas is a bit prohibitive. I don't want to pay that much money for something that takes me only a couple of days to read. I do buy novellas, but only on Kindle.
Some of my favorite novels of the past five years have been myth retellings: Circe, The Witch's Heart, Kaikeyi, and (most recently) Ithaca. As long as they have strong prose and interesting heroines, I'll read them. But I do agree, writers need to start moving beyond Greece/Rome in their search for myths to retell.
Agree. Also, Kaikeyi and Witch’s Heart are two of my favorite retellings as well!
Agreed! I don’t have the money to spend £12 on a 100 page book that will take less than 2 hours to read 😅 I’ve been listening to a lot on audiobook.
And I would also love more retellings from African, Asian and native cultures 😄
I rely on the library for Nghi Vo and T Kingfisher novellas. They're niche, so the waitlists are short!
@@nanimaonovi2528 I wish, my library doesn't have either 😫😅
I believe its already started, but COZY FANTASY is about to blow up in traditional publishing. It has always had its audience, but they are going to over-saturate the market because they are always behind and have not had a chance to get their best book out in that genre.
Is cozy like small-scale? Like having only 5 characters and being about interpersonal relationships instead of a kingdom?
@ella-gz4fj That is pretty close. It affects a smaller scale and usually has a heart warming ending. There can definitely be loss, but it's more personal for the protagonist rather than large scale, yes. T J Klune is another author who has been successful at cozy, but his novels can seem a little formulaic after you read a couple.
Sadly, my Barnes and Noble (the main bookstore where I live) doesn't separate fantasy romance, so it's all mixed in. I wish it was separate so I know when I go to the fantasy section what to expect.
Agree. I think true Fantasy Romance (where the romance is a main plot line) should be shelved with Romance rather than the Fantasy/Sci-Fi if they can’t have their own section altogether.
This would help those that are looking for those books find them easier and those that don’t want them, avoid them easier.
@@whisper_dvm5157 agreed
If the fantasy book is written by a woman, then 90% of the time it's going to have some kind of romantic plotline, but I guess they don't belong. You can also usually tell if the fantasy book has a romantic plotline by the covers . There are "fantasy romance" books that have intricate worlds, but it's ignored and they need to be removed immediately from the fantasy section just because it has a romantic plotline rather than a bloody one. I've read very few fantasy romance books that don't get bloody themselves.
One trend that I've noticed recently and that I fully support is older, out of print books (especially by women) getting re-released. For example, a whole bunch of older OOP books by Martha Wells are being re-released by TOR, and the Doctrine of Labyrinths series is getting an e-book re-release.
Absolutely agree. It's great seeing some of the classic authors, and the ones that didn't necessarily get the hype they deserved, getting a second wind
I fully support more cozy fantasy. I enjoy a good fantasy with harder topics, but most of the time I want something that isn’t going to cause more stress in my life lol
I love a good, long book. You know, as long as it's interesting and of a decent quality. I can honestly say I wouldn't want a single page cut from any of the Stormlight books. Conversely, it takes a special author, such as T Kingfisher, for me to consider reading a book under 450 pages. I realise I'm probably in the minority, but I just love getting totally lost in a fantastic fictional world. If it's a really good book, I never want it to end!
I don’t think you’re alone! The two examples you gave I think are ones a lot of people would agree with too :D
The moment when it goes from "I have a lot left to go" to "I'm over half way..." to "4 chapters left, my life is over".
I'm the same!! Sometimes when I'm listening to audiobooks (when I'm too exhausted to read) I don't consider getting audiobooks under 10h. If they go past 20h I'm getting excited. If a story is good, I want to stay in this world for as long as possible.
Part of why I love reading a lot of web-serials is that the format readily lends itself to long sprawling epics, so I can definitely relate.
I’m the same! It takes a lot of mental energy for me to get into a new world with new characters, so I want to milk it for all it’s got! With short books sometimes I struggle to feel like the initial energy it took to get into the world was worth it.
I was hunting through my parents' collection of old SFF books the other day, and I was struck that a lot of those books from the 50s through the 70s were under 300 pages. It seems like publishers focusing on really long books was a more recent trend than I'd realized.
That’s so interesting I’ve never considered book trends from a different time period. Thanks for sharing!
Yep!
Something I learned in Uni...the impact of word processing software on fiction! It seems that having to manualy type (and proof read and revise and correct!) a story was so time consuming and laborious that it limited manuscript length, neccesitating authors learn to craft tight etconimical stories.
Read some Jack Vance, like the Dragon Masters, lots of stuff crammed in a book.
I use to get books from 2nd hand stores I the late 90s, most were in the 300 - 350 page range, there were a lot of longer, but most that range iirc.
I find that smaller fantasy books are the more creative and original experiences, because the authors have to rely on other things to bring the story to life. When you see a tome of a thousand pages, you can pretty easily guess that it's about a war/political struggle. The one exception to this I can think of is The Name of the Wind.
If you look at the works of Gene Wolfe, Ursula K. Le Guin and Terry Pratchett, their most famous works are books that can only be described as _them._ I really think shorter stories are the true signifier of an author's capabilities, especially in fantasy. This isn't a book I've read, but I know people love The Emperor's Soul because, as bookswithzara once told me, it's Brandon Sanderson without the bullshit.
However, I would say a really long story that doesn't have a bunch of bullshit is the ultimate testament to skill. It's not hard to come up with enough plot material to fill 800 pages, but it's hard to make it all relevant.
i need standalones (novella or not) bc the moment i hear that a book i have on my tbr is planned to be the first of a trilogy, i instantly feel exhausted without having even read the book yet lol
i think a trend that i want to either start or to stay are duologies because a trilogy/saga/8+ books is too much of a commitment if i end up not even enjoying the story but feel like i have to finish it (sunk cost fallacy i guess). but duologies are that perfect middle where i can read the first book and think "well even if it wasn't spectacular, at least it's just one more book to finish the story. and maybe the second book will actually make the first book better." some of my favorite books are duologies bc i feel like that's a perfect amount of time for the author to write a plot + worldbuilding without feeling like they're trying to reach a word count with filler.
and to answer the most important question: yes, if it's the main course, mac is in a bowl. if it's a side, it's on the plate with the rest of the food.
I would love more duologies for this exact reason.
I love a long series, maybe I’m psycho, but having a whole world to get lost into for a long time is so relaxing; although standalones that are set in the same world of another series (like Joe Abercrombies in between first law and age of madness) might be my favorite. You can have a rather quick but compelling story in one book while keeping some of that familiar world and character intrigue around
Maybe an unpopular opinion? I want all the length in books. I'm such a fast reader, I hate buying a book that only takes me 4-6 hours to finish. I want the longest books so that I can be immersed for as long as possible
I absolutely concur with your Mac & cheese thesis 😂
As long as it is in a bowl. Mac & Cheese on a plate is absolutely barbaric
I think writers should not worry about whats popular as a trend and just focus on writing a good story. Chasing trends for any industry is normally a losing battle. If you write well people will buy it personally im never looking for something in particular, just a solid story even if its been done before.
I definitely don't mind the novella trend. I've always struggled with short story collections (because if it's good, then I'm unsatisfied that it's so short), unless it's a little in between bit in a larger series. But my genres of interest have become really varied over the last few years, and I like having a more digestible fantasy option when I'm in the middle of other things and don't have the head space for a chunky tome. Which is also how I feel about cozy fantasy, lol.
Lois McMaster Bujold's "Penric" novella series is amazing. Her characters are so loveable and there is definite character progression through the series.
Bujold is one of the greats. Martha Wells and KJ Parker also shine in novella format.
I'm so used to long titles because of Light Novels and Manhwa so it doesn't faze me anymore 😂 but I definitely see how those long titles can be a bit much to people. For the novella debate, I think it personally depends on the type of story we're getting into. I can't imagine a story like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings being contained to a short amount of pages. But a story like The Princess Bride works perfectly as a self-contained novel because of the content. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it's more of the scope of the story that makes me feel like it should be short/long.
the length of light novels and manga titles is becoming a joke at this point :D
@@katka8490 it really is haha!
That time I got reincarnated as a washing machine 😌
Ya, they are long there largely due to quirks of how web novel sites work and are used in Japan.
It is not as clear-cut as it used to be, but you would usually guess fairly easily which LN and manga were originally WN based on the title length.
The oldest WN being the exception to that rule, but now the lengthy title is spreading.
I just started reading again after I bought myself a Kindle for Christmas and it's interesting to hear people talk about trends when I just got back into reading. Novellas and Stand Alones I feel are amazing for the genre. None of my friends will read a book longer than 500 pages and series intimidate and scare people away. Having a lot of stand alones brings people into the genre but I understand if people feel like it's becoming a bit overdone. And bowls for Mac and Cheese only. It stays hotter for longer in a bowl cause there is less air moving around the mac to cool it down.
There are also the novellas that are also a series! The Murderbot Chronicles by Martha Wells (5 novellas and a novel with another novel coming later this year), Wayward Children by Seanan McGuire (8 novellas) and Monk & Robot by Becky Chambers (2 novellas).
I would like to see writers, and people in general, not a give a flying fuck about trends or industry standards or what is popular and make something original and true to the artist vision.
Hear, hear.
That's what I plan to do.
You just put into words something that I've been trying to for a really long time. Cozy fantasy IS a pushback against a grim dark. I never realized why I liked it so much before, but now I see that it's because I hated all of that grossness and cozy fantasy was away for me to enjoy my favorite genre (fantasy) without all that other stuff getting in the way. Not that I don't enjoy any darkness in my fantasy, but like you said it's hard to pull off.
I don't mind the *concept* of cozy fantasy, but i already roll my eyes when i see a book *marketed* as cozy fantasy 😅
I’m in France and a « romantacy » bookstore actually opened in my city.
They do have more general fantasy but still heavily focused on fantasy romance.
Also I’ve noticed that the French publishing market has recently adopted the hardback format (not something we really have) with the pretty edges etc.
They call them « collector editions » but they can be found in bookstores for a bit more euros but not the same increase you can have with English book boxes. I’d say a mix of both but more leaning toward the regular hardback, just a bit boosted
It is mostly for YA/ fantasy books or fantasy romance from what I saw.
the length of the book depends on the story. Some stories can be told in fewer pages, while others need a world & have many characters and intertwining plots all playing out at the same time. Those will be longer.
I also want more standalones, sometimes I want a break from a series without starting a new one. Recently I read Sword of Kaigen and enjoyed it a lot.
It is not fantasy but I really like Blake Courch’s standalone SF thrillers. Wish there were equivalent fantasy books.
I have a problem with standalones and novellas because I am exactly that reader that falls in love with worlds and settings. I juat need more of that world. I need to explore it, see the different variations and iterations of it. Every detail is a new path to take and I want them all. I never feel satisfied with short works, in fact if I fall in love with a work and it ends too quickly (whter the story was finished or not) I just feel very depressed, like... it's over. That was so nice and interesting and amazing, and it's already over. I wasn't ready to leave, but I have to. That's probably not a healthy thing, but I read books and experience stories as a way to cope with my other stressors, it is my balance against life, and I think that's entirely valid. I just need long series - hell, I'll accept the slow decline into formulation if I have to, I'd rather get tired of a series and stop reading it than it end before I'm done. This is my escape, I don't want to have to leave.
I don't want to need another different world either. I always hear this "but now you're done and there are so many ither amazing worlds out there and you can go to those." I don't want other worlds, the one I had was great. And oftentimes those other worlds people suggest to me are actually really uninteresting or honestly not that great, so now I'm adrift on the tumultuous oceans seeking anew world to escape to, not getting the escape I need to balance against my daily life. I'd muchrather have one big world forever than several smaller worlds separated by vast wastes of garbage, even if I could have thousands of them. I love writer like Tolkien who fall jn love with their world and give us so many stories and then trailing off into little notes and asides and shorts in that same world. That's what I love and want.
I'm that kid who doesn't start a series until all the books are out because I like to read them all back to back 🙈 Sorry Rothfuss 🤷
Oh, this is so me! Agreed 100%!
I also hope fantasy romance stops just getting labled as just fantasy. Online and in book stores. It feels like people are afraid to label their book a romance, even if that is the main plot. And then i, who just want a regular flavor fantasy book get stuck accidentally reading smut when i wasn't looking for that at all. If you wrote a fantasy romance, own it! They're super popular! Label your book as such!
I am so with you about the witcher series! Short Stories >>> Saga.I love series in general too but I love a good standalone every now and then to switch it up!
The massive size of some fantasy books is what kept me from picking up the genre for so long. I actually started with some young adult and fantasy romance that were a lot smaller. And the whole thing with series kinda gets overwhelming. I just wanna read one or two and be good. The sheer size of the series for wheel of time made it a pass for me. And I definitely will be glad to see the name trend thing go. Originally I felt like it was kinda crappy that everyone used that format. Because some of the titles are so similar if someone say “hey check out this book” you go to the store or library and look for it and end up with something similar but not the right one? It almost seems deceitful in a way. That’s probably a bit harsh of a take but it’s kinda how I thought about it.
Alright, I disagree with getting rid of one-shot novellas, because I struggled to suggest a fantasy book to my friend, he only wanted a taste, but I couldn't recommend anything because all fantasy books were part of a series.
First trend I've noticed this year is that I'm not noticing trends because I'm too busy reading good books from the nineties 😅
I also feel like cozy fantasy is influenced by the growing popularity of anime and manga. Having fantasy-setting cozy "slice of life" type stories has long been popular in anime/manga, and I feel like that has influenced western media more and more.
At the end of 2021, when I was sick with that thing so many of us had, I read an entire series of fantasy cozy mysteries. It was entertaining and light and saved my sanity. I still need to check out the cozy fantasy books you've mentioned.
I'm really curious about what exactly you and others commenting here mean by "novellas." As someone who's been writing for a couple of decades now, I'm confused because the standard publishing definition of "novella" is anything from 20,000 to 49,999 words. We're talking 50-150 pages here. Nettle and Bone is 272 pages; it's in no way a novella. Someone, please enlighten me.
Mac & cheese is all about the consistency. If it’s soupy, like off the shelf Kraft Mac and cheese, it goes in a bowl.
If it’s thick and rich where it won’t pool out, plate. Either way as long as you have a little hot sauce, it’s good eating.
Hahaha, wise words, wise words
A trend I want to disappear is the "first-book-in-a-series secret". I don't understand why publishers hide the fact that a book is the first in a series when they market a new release, it actually makes me angrier when I learn about it and I don't pick those books up. Make it clear that it's book 1 and let me decide if I want to pick a series, don't try to trick me.
I know it’s kind of a bare minimum comment but I’m glad we’re not talking disdainfully about fantasy romance. So often people bring it up on the assumption that it’s a depthless, lesser form of the genre, which put most simply, isn’t very nice and is also simply not true. I do think that clearly defining which version it is will help readers greatly, and probably even lessen some of the in-fighting about genre lines.
The excessively long titles started as a trend in Anime series, and Japanese light novels. It didn't seem to take long before it was adopted by many others.
One thing that I also think has lead to the increase in number of novellas is the growth of audiobooks and ebooks (and their accessibility via various subscribtions & apps like libby, KU scribd etc) makes them more accessible to people. because as you said they tend to feel kind of expensive for the page count but and audiobook I can finish in an afternoon of chores feels incredibly accessible.
Mac and cheese is streight out of the pot, over the sink like a true adult.
Also the long title is due to Light Novels I think. "That time I got reincarnated as a slime."
"Is It Wrong to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?"
"I'm A Behemoth, An S-Ranked Monster, But Mistaken For A Cat, I Live As An Elf Girl's Pet"
Real light novel titles.
Japanese light novels can be really heavy on the cozy fantasy too. Lots of fantasy worlds that are mostly slice of life fluff with no major conflicts.
@@Basileus127 I am aware my husband is addicted to them lol. Many of them are really good and very fluffy, I just can't get over the formating most of the time. XD
If you're making Mac and cheese in a pot you're doing it wrong. Here on the South its baked in the oven and you'll go to Hell I'd you buy kraft
@@adampender2482 I ain't from the south and don't even have an oven.
@@JBCBlank no oven? You can't put a house or apartment om the market here without appliances
Another good thing about novellas is that they can be a good intro to a new author. For instance, if there's an author someone wants to try, but they've got a whole bunch of large sci-fi or fantasy novels, but the reader doesn't know if they'd like said author's writing style, for example, if that author has novellas as well, the reader can start there and decide weather they want to continue with the author's bigger works.
As far as mythological retelling goes, Roger Zelazny is the king. He's retold myths from China (Lord Demon), Egypt (Creatures of Light and Darkness), Greece (And Call Me Conrad), Hindu (Lord of Light), Navajo (Eye of Cat), Norse (The Mask of Loki), and a mix (The Dream Master). Covers em all! (well, a lot anyway).
Don't know if it has anything to do with the English-speaking market, but very long titels are a trend for years now with japanese light-novels, a lot of which were translated, and maybe it had an influence that it seemed more "ok" to have a long title?
Also, I love novellas x3 They let me try the author's writing style without having to commit to a series. What I really don't like about that trend is that even the e-book-version of them can be ridicucoulsy expansive. I get that the unit prices in printing sky-rocket with short books, but why the digital version, too? (I'm looking at you, tor...)
aaaaalso the special editions ... in some cases, like with the novellas from Fonda Lee in the Green-Bone-Saga-Universe, there are only very very very expansive print versions and no digital version at all. Especially for international readers were shipping alone costs often times more than the book itself, that's just mean. :'D
I like the idea of a new adult marketing bracket (I don't think of NA as a genre the way I think of fantasy and romance.) I like it not only because my fantasy book written with 25-35-year-olds in mind, but because it opens up themes that are more relevant to me than, say, shooting a faire and having to go be his brother's lover. It's great that SJM made bank monetizing a fantasy like that, but NA gives me freedom to explore themes that real-world adults have. Like chronic loneliness, personal stagnation, and crippling debt. And if romance develops, it can feel more natural than contracted bondage. Like the relationship was developed by consenting adults who, you know, liked each other.
I normally shy away from short stories that aren't tied to an existing series because I rarely read one that has character development, world building, and a well developed plot in the limited space. I'm a little more willing to try a novella that's a stand-alone because there's a bit more room to fit everything in. Becky Chambers' last few novellas are great examples of everything I want in a smaller package. Bonus that a couple are Cozy SciFi.
I need cosy fantasy to stick around for a good long while yet, because I'm really enjoying that subgenre! Sometimes it's exactly what you need, something sweet and lovely that leaves you feeling good.
A lot of the earliest modern fantasy (late 19th century up to the 1940's or so) was in fact _heavy_ with novellas (both in serial form and single published novella form) - it was Tolkien who started the thick tome trend of fantasy novels. So it could be said the novella trend is just the genre going back to its roots.
Homemade? On a plate! It's thicker than boxed, which should probably be in a bowl! Also, loved this topic and video!
Haha, homemade is very yummy 😄
On the topic of long titles: have you ever watched anime or read manga or Chinese or Korean novels? Because there are titles like “that time I was reincarnated as a slime” or “Reincarnated in another world with my smartphone” or “I’m the only one with genius DNA” or “An obseravtion log of my wide - a self proclaimed villainess” and I think that’s actually where those long titles come from
Love your videos! As a librarian I appreciate your insight
I appreciate all you do as a librarian!
I just finished Godkiller because of your recommend and really enjoyed it. The world building was amazing to me but it’s shorter than a lot of fantasy so I definitely think it can be done!
I agree! I loved Godkiller and the world-building was great.
A book series that I highly recommend is "Under the Oak Tree" by Suji Kim. It's a translation of the Korean webnovel from Ridi Books, so the series is divided in parts. Currently there are 7 but each book is about 360 pages long. A great Fantasy Romance with a corresponding webtoon on Manta comics. It's actually the series that pulled me back into reading.
I've read so many books lately where it could have easily lost at least 100 pages, if not more than that. Fourth Wing and Gilded didn't need to be over 500 pages. Then you compare that to the quality of the Murderbot novellas, and I love that Martha Wells can tell so many cool stories and take us through different arcs in the 5 novellas/1 novel, which all combined equal like one of those massive tomes.
I really believe that shorter stories and stand alone books are here to stay. I believe so mainly because we see time and time again that the attention span of people is shortening, therefore I wouldn't be surprised that stories which involve less commitment will be the main trend in some years. This is not to say that shorter/longer series are better nor worse, I believe that it is independent of the book "quality".
The JP light novel reader in me just took a long sip at the Irregular Witches mention. That is long? Ok, for western standards it is. For an LN it would be a blessing from the gods.
I'm very happy about the shorter fantasy novels coming out. As far as I'm aware, high fantasy novels tend to be massive and wordy due to J R Tolkien being set as the "ultimate" fantasy author for such a long time, so it's seen as sort of standard. But for me and a lot of other people, that writing style is exactly why I've largely stayed away from high fantasy for most of my life. I haaaaate pages of character musings that tell us nothing and get us nowhere and paragraph length descriptions of things that could have been a sentence. I have a very poor working memory, so that time spent away from continuing the plot, leaves me needing to go back and re-read what the characters are even doing in the first place. I hope it's something that stays and I hope it'll help tame the erm snootery haha of some high fantasy readers.
I print my books through the same source that many of the big publishers do. The cover is about 1.30 for average paperbacks. The cost per page is .014 per page. Anything under a hundred pages then the cover is the main cost, setting minimum price for the book regardless of size. Larger books the page price is more important. This said, I think publishers, price shorter works higher because they can, and they get to keep the extra margin. The size of the order only comes into play when you order more than a hundred copies when discounts begin at 2%.
I love reading and writing novellas, but my main genres are modern/contemporary paranormal romance and urban fantasy, and they just don't always need to be 50k-80k words when many of these stories could be amazing, tighter concepts and reader experiences at like 40k and under!
There's a trend I've been noticing that, unfortunately, I don't think is going anywhere: the Incest plot line. It just keeps popping up, and sometimes it's written like it's supposed to be romantic.
I've been burnt out with Greek mythology for the last 10 years. I want more diverse mythologies to pop off.
The vampire renaissance is another trend that's worth mentioning.
Also idk if it's a worldwide trend or just in the german fantasy book publishing world, but books that are set in academies/schools are a huge trend. Fourth Wing is the biggest international example I can think of, but there are at least 4 or 5 upcoming fantasy series by german authors that take place in a fantasy school and have "Something Academy" in the title.
Another trend is the romance book genre being hyped since covid (which also plays into your theory of people needing cozy stories during hard times in their lives).
Also regarding the length of books: it hasn't reached the romance authors yet but a lot of romance readers are complaining about overly long romances. Which I get, who needs 500 pages to bring 2 people together when romance books managed to do that in less than 300 pages just a few years ago.
Try the Elric series by Michael Moorcock. The man is living proof that you don't need a thousand pages to tell a great story.
The way you talked about Grrm and his bowl of unfinished mac and cheese 🤣💀🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha, you gotta finish it! 😂
I completely agree with your assumptions about cozy fantasy. And until the trend is no longer financially viable for publishers we won't really see any honest and original stories within the sub genre. But we shall see. I love hearing your takes and you help me so much when it comes to navigating the parts of the fantasy zeitgeist that I can't keep follow on my own
3:48 thats the most common overall consensus on everyone that actually read the books.
I am in favor of novellas. Some stories work best at that length. Some authors write particularly well at that length: Elizabeth Hand and Lucius Shepard, for example.
I wish a publisher would revive the doubles format, as used by Ace. It involves the tête-bêche format, you know! It was revived by Tor about 40 years ago, and perhaps Tor is the right publisher to re-revive the format. If you think that two novellas in one volume would be interesting, look up Ace Doubles.
I don’t mind shorter fantasy books but it does always make me nervous if the final book is shorter than the previous entry
One of the features I'll be incorporating into the second/final story arc of my Waves of Darkness series is to go on the premise that many obscure hunting goddesses were actually an elite group of vampire enforcers.
Novellas & short books are too expensive.
I can't pay that much for a book that Im going to finish in a day and sf/fantasy books are **rare** at my library .
I totally agree on all of these points. Especially regarding the one about the length of fantasy novels. I love a good long book, one in which you’re so invested and you know you have so many pages to digest. But unfortunately many books are longer than they need to be, which I instead find disengaging because I get bored. Authors, please don’t write books to be long for the sake of being long, only write it when necessary!
IIRC the Frugal Wizards handbook has the long title because its an Isekai and Japanese light novel often have very long titles because the web site that tended to be where they got shown off first didn't show descriptions in its list so the authors put the description in the title. And Japanese Light Novels are mostly Isekai (i.e Portal Fantasy.).
You think those are long titles? They aren't long titles. _These_ are long titles: _Gulliver's Travels, or Travels into Several Remote Nations of the World. In Four Parts. By Lemuel Gulliver, First a Surgeon, and then a Captain of Several Ships_ or _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque; Having been cast on Shore by Shipwreck, wherein all the Men perished but himself. With An Account how he was at last as strangely deliver'd by Pyrates. Written by Himself._
I think people have come to associate shorter books with YA and longer ones with adult books. So they might think that cause it’s shorter the writing will be more juvenile or toned down for younger audiences.
I'm making a comic not writing a book but all the advice is basically the same for both so i really enjoy book writing/ trope videos. I am currently in the process of making a comic based on Slavic mythology (percy jackson/the witcher vibes) and im planning to make a couple one part stand alone stories that introduce you to this world but are not plot heavy so you can just enjoy them kinda like novellas. I think short sozy stories can really pull you into a fantasy world without being overwhelming so i'm gonna try to do that. And if that doesn't work at least someone can enjoy a short fantasy story with no obligation to read anything further lol
I personally wish cozy fantasy would go away. It’s like reading contemporary slice of life fiction… and it really bores me. No substance and just fluff.
As for romance fantasy- I think that should stay in the romance section of the bookshelves. I like reading in-depth characters (usually that’s what long fantasy books brought) while the romance fantasy is usually very YA feel to them and very explicit. I don’t mind a spicy scene or two… but I don’t like it when it gets in the way of the plot. 🤷♀️
We did fairy tale retellings, moved onto mythology, and seem to be heading towards Shakespeare and Jane Austen retellings. (From what I've seen, anyway.)
Girl Who Fell Beneath the Sea is a great retelling of a Korean folk tale that I highly recommend! I ended up reading it in like two days I liked it so much
I think the long names has to do with standing out. If a book title is just one word there is gonna be a lot of books with the same name.
I love a good novella if it's done well! I know that Tor started their novella program where the authors had a lot of control over what they wrote, in exchange for maybe a smaller paycheck/advance. That's how I understood it when Seanan McGuire was talking about it?? But from Tor alone, that's where Murderbot, Wayward Children, Monk & Robot, and more super popular novella series from well loved authors came from. I wonder if the uptick in novellas is partially due to that program and/or due to the success of those series
Regarding cozy fantasy - cozy mystery has been around for decades and remains both huge and suuuuper cozy. I kind of think cozy mystery will catch a similar wave and be in for the long haul. Maybe?
Maybe. On the other hand, I think that part of the reason there are so many cozy mysteries is that there's a "formula" to them that makes them relatively easy to write and to read. I don't know that there's as much of a formula for cozy fantasy.
I don’t think that’s fair either to cozy mystery as a sub-genre or to authors. Some cozies are formulaic but many are not. From my perspective, these kind of attitudes, that devalue an entire sub-genre, are the same thing that litfic readers use to devalue all of fantasy and sci-fi. I don’t read romance but I’m confident that there are some amazing authors writing in the genre. I, for instance, often read the books in the short list for prizes like the Booker or the Women’s Prize, but every year I get mad all over again that genre books aren’t considered. It’s a big world with many ways to tell stories. Demeaning a sub-genre is a way to choke voices out. For me, that is at cross purposes with everything that reading does for me.
@@arlissbunny I didn't mean to devalue or put down cozy mysteries; that wasn't my point. Maybe "formula" wasn't the best word (which is why I put it in quotes). I just meant that, when you pick up a cozy mystery, you have some idea of what kind of story you're going to get: the plot is going to revolve around solving a mystery (usually a murder). On the other hand, just telling me that a book is a cozy fantasy doesn't really give me much of an idea what it's about.
Understandable. I suspect that cozy mystery is a bit more broad than lots of folks realize but, as with either a traditional or historical mystery, there will be a mystery to be solved. You are right about cozy fantasy being a broad classification but as it develops more over the next couple of years I think we’ll start to find some fairly similar tropes. But that does remain you be seen.
Thank you for understanding my earlier point. I feel like readers who value and understand the depth and weight of the best of genre fiction really do need to protect (I don’t know if that’s the right word) these genres from the casual debasement that is routine from the litfic community. You are commenting on the video of a fantasy content creator so I’m going to guess that you and I are not far apart on this.
Novellas used to be far more common in F&SF back when there were magazines, and they were divided across 2-3 issues. And tomes like Dhalgren and Stand on Zanzibar were outliers on the length scale.
RE: page count. The FIRST thing I learned about writing is that the best writing communicates using the fewest number of words possible without lacking any quality information. Cover all the bases efficiently and don't leave out anything important.
With your first point, I'm the total opposite. I am far more likely to pick up a book that is a novella or less than 400 pages than something that is 700+. Single books with huge page counts are intimidating to me
I’m on board with Romantasy getting its own section in stores and searches. There are times I want nothing to do with it and don’t want to accidentally pick it up, not realizing it. Sometimes, I just want my Fantasy Hack & Slash without the Kissy Face.
Novellas used to be common, but in a different format; short stories. Often a few short stories were put together into a full book. Robin McKinley has a bunch of what might be marketed individually now as novellas, but were a bunch of short stories put together in one book volume. Short stories are novellas are great for giving side characters their own story, especially if you loved the world and/or the characters of the main book/series.
Bowl if it's on its own, like just mixing up a box for lunch or a quick dinner. Plate if you're preparing more things to have.
I've never seen one of your videos, I have no idea who you are, I don't know why the algorithm offered me this video... But I will FOREVER fight alongside you on the mac & cheese bowl vs plate issue! You nailed it
You whispering, "George RR Martin and Patrick Rothfuss" made me giggle so much 🤣
Ah! I have only seen one 'cozy fantasy' Ineed some suggestions! I hope it expands for a while, I was never really a huge fan of the grim-dark, and I love things like cozy mysteries so many cozy fantasy could trend in a similar kind of way in finding something semi-exciting or mysterious to pair with the chill vibe.
The problem I could see is the same for grim-dark, I don't re-read grim-dark and I rarely re-read cozy mysteries, so unless a cozy fantasy was above and beyond it'd probably be a romp and drop kind'a book.
I'm with you soooooo much on the page count thing. I love world building but page length is not indicative of good story or good world building and I'm really over this idea that epic fantasy needs to be a huge word count.
To me when it comes to novellas it is two things that deter me: one, I don't like paying so much for such a short book. Two, I feel in most cases they are just not long enough. I have read novellas and most of the time they just feel lacking, like it needed much more world building or character development or they feel rushed or just something than what we got. So I just end up disappointed. BUT there has a couple of smaller novels/novellas that I have found and enjoyed, but most cases I do not like reading anything less than 300.
I bet a lot of writers did similar to what Brandon Sanderson did during lockdown, but instead of full novels, they took some time to develop some other ideas into novellas.
I was eating a bowl of mac n cheese while watching this, and yes, it was in a bowl.
As for "A Blank of Blank and Blank" as a title trend, I genuinely can't tell any of them apart. I have no idea who wrote which or which goes in what series, and that's the danger of copying popular trends.
I'm sure it is generally true that if an author has a good selling book, publishers get excited about them doing a series and start seeing $$ flash in front of their eyes...but you make a good point that several of the biggest sellers in fantasy to date haven't and maybe won't finish their series. Through no fault of his own Robert Jordan wasn't able to finish his even, so we're right lucky Sanderson gave us an ending to WoT.
I wonder if publishers have started worrying about having to leave a big series unfinished, or of they don't care so long as the books that are finished sell well.