Choosing Your Character Last | The Many Ways to Build a D&D Character
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Sometimes, letting other players choose their characters first makes your decision much easier!
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Chapters:
00:00 - Moving Update!
00:37 - Letting Everybody Else Choose First
02:45 - Not Stepping On Toes
03:57 - A Word From Our Sponsor
05:59 - Narrowing Down Our Choices
07:54 - Filling a Need
10:18 - Choosing My Character for the Sunday Morning Game
14:56 - Will I Tell Stories About This Campaign?
16:26 - Outro
Hush Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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I had a game where every single member said "I'll see what everyone else picks, and then fill the gap". And then everyone stared at each other for five minutes waiting for someone to pick a class.
Hahahaha
BEN NARE!
Ah, an opportunity to roll dice and speed up a situation, for once!
Ah yes. I had a similiar situation as a dm, with two players. Funny enough: If i had played, we would have been three people...
I have random tables for class-background-race for exactly this point lol. I also really like the heroic chronicle from Wildmount and the This is Your Life from Xanathar's. One of my DMs has his own homebrew world and made is own heroic chronicle. I'm about to roll my character up on it!
A lot of people talk about "waiting to see what everyone else picks" as a purely mechanical thing people do, and say "your group doesn't *need* to be perfectly balanced; play what you want!" but I do this a lot because I have a whole folder of character concepts I'm just waiting to get a chance to play, and doing this just helps me narrow it down.
Exactly!
That's how I'll play it too. I wanna fit a theme and narrative. I wanna fit into the group. Have them all make some kinda connecting sense.
Except for the very first character I ever played, this has been my thought every time.
To the note of "Druids intimidate me," I really think that Druids, of any class in D&D, reward the effort you put into them, especially understanding game mechanics. They can be super, super powerful and equally versatile on the drop of a hat. This at once makes them super powerful AND rewards people (like me) that over think and over research everything because I can leverage the mechanics at my disposal better.
I'm hoping the World Anvil sponsorships continue this narrative.
This add hit me hard. My notes are atrocious
Because of how my online group works, I usually end up being the last person who finds out about the upcoming new campaign and prepares for it - the others are often talking together late at night (well, late for me), get excited about it together, and either plan or discuss characters together, and I just come in later to ask "so, what did everybody else make?" and decide which niche I kinda feel like filling. Since we're a larger group, I don't necessarily have to fill a healer or tank or such role, perhaps just acting as useful redundancy coverage (which lets me play some odd choices, if I'm interested), but I'm used to knowing what I'm playing with.
"your BBEG is running the blacksmith for some reason..." "Oh god you weren't lying o.O"
I like this approach when I am one of the players with the most experience. I prefer to let the newer players experience what excites them and what feels easiest for them to grasp. Then I try to fill in from there.
If the table is equally experienced, I try to select something thats most likely to drive fun drama between characters. Ie choosing a rogue to playfully pester the paladin.
Moving house is incredibly stressful. Honestly amazing that you're able to post videos during the move. Take your time, man.
Thanks so much! I’m finally getting back into my rhythm, so I should be able to stay on schedule without missing an installment 😁
This is the method I use when I have too many character ideas that I really, really wanna play.
I was once bored over a winter break and decided to make a character for each of the (at the time) 12 classes. I rolled for race (2d10, 0 is reroll, PHB table of contents for order, pick between the two rolls), tried to pick as random a background as possible, thought "now how would this character come about?", and built them to level 5. I got about 4-5 great concepts out of that practice, and a lot more experience with the lower-level class abilities as I read through what each character could do. My personal favorites from that practice are Delta, the half-elf Tempest Cleric Sailor, Pywren the Tiefling Sorcerer Soldier, and Fern the Half-Orc Druid, whose herd strives to protect the forest they hunt in. Best of all, I now have several pocket characters with ready-made backstories that I can level up or down, should the need arise.
gotta hand it to you, that was one of the funniest ad breaks I've seen in a while
Thank you!!
Last minute characters can absolutely be the best. I was planning on playing a shadow magic sorcerer for a Warhammer campaign, but doing research on the world (never having played Warhammer before), I realized that the universe set up a dwarf Artificer perfectly. The result 30 minutes later, Rengem "Gem" Ironarm, remains one of my favorite characters to this day.
I ended up doing this recently when a friend of mine invited me to join a campaign hes started up with mostly new players, the vets ended up letting the new players choose first so that they can have the best first experiences as possible, rolled up a forge cleric on the spot and its been one of the most fun groups ive run with
I just moved as well. Right as the playtest came out, right as Fresh Cut Grass flipped out, and right before Cyberpunk Edgerunners came out. I definitely hear you re: moving.
This method is my jam! So happy to find out more people loving it too!
And I must admit this preference of mine comes mainly for the reason you mentioned almost as a off-hand remark: I need the limitation to spark my creativity; I find restrictions to be my greatest muse, in other artistic areas too. It also motivates me to flesh out the bare kernel of an initioal idea for a fun twist on a class or archetype*.
(*because, it should be mentioned, I mainly play PbtA games, where diverse archetypes are a core element of the game and, unlike DnD, double duties are officially prohibited.)
Agreed!
I ran an old school first/ 2nd edition campaign for a larger group that had player playing 1 or 2 characters with the stipulation that they could not be the "Same person sex changed to be different or just another class / race but be a unique person in the characters own right . I had 2 guys want to play a ranger and I allowed it but made one focus on the Mage spells and teh other focus on a more druidical path and showed , that you did not need sub classes to play the same class differently and have specific class builds .. It becomes true role playing when you do not rely on mechanics to accomplish your goals as a player and in my humble opinion allows for greateer creativity .
That makes sense!
I remember having a similar scenario where I played a knowledge cleric that, while not mechanically interesting, was an absolute favorite among the party. He was this creepy and unnerving warforged named Myson (he calls himself My Son) and I basically ran him like a SoulsBorne NPC.
Best sponsor portion so far!
I am the same way, with regards to trying to cover an unmet role.
Perhaps even one that's
*sunglasses*
Critical.
YEEEAAAAHHH!!!
this style of choosing works even in games without a class system
i got a mate who plays in teen supers game using the fate system and he always waits until everyone else has decided what their character will be, partly because he tries to do differently to everyone else, but also as he worked at a comic store for decades, he has a wealth of ideas for teen supers and can make one up on the fly no problems
I can't possibly be the only one who REALLY wants to see a campaign about a BBEG who moonlights running the blacksmith shop.
I‘ve been loving the sponsor segments so much, it feels like you can release some pent-up creative energy and they are actually very entertaining!
Mike would find some scary dudes in my notes. Half of my party have Nemesises.
Including some Sephorith looking paladin with a Runeblade.
The frantic knocking on wood, fucking relatable 😂. Fingers-crossed that things will be chill for awhile, congrats on the new filming space, and good luck with your paladin!
I tend to pick characters for a campaign in a similar way. While it’s definitely true that 2 people can play a class very differently from each other even within the same party, it’s always good to know what asset(s) the group may be lacking and then fill in that role 👍🏾.
Keep crushing it dude, love your content!
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My party has two rangers and they're very different. One is an aasimar gloom stalker who typically fights at ranged. The other is a firbolg fey wanderer who has become the main front line fighter of the party
This is exactly how I've dealt with my newest character for an upcoming campaign and honestly my prefered way of doing it.
It's going to be a party of 3 and the other 2 are kinda new (started in a campaign that fizzled out a couple months ago in which I was also part with some other players). One of them wanted to repeat a rogue with the gained knowledge, while the other settled in a paladin for which she has a deep love.
In my case, I love clerics. Clerics are my thing, and they know it. But since I never play anything charismatic I wanted to give it a go, and as the paladin player is very much not likely going to be neither healing or doing facey stuff I chose a sorcerer. A divine soul one (with a potential 3 lvl dip into celestial warlock for lore and gameplay implications) so I can scratch my cleric itch.
I'm really hyped to play this one and if anyone bothered to read all this: have a great day/night/whatever may be going on for you :)
I watched an entire campaign where everyone was a wizard going to a school. The school aspect fell apart real quick from the consequences of player actions, but it lasted quite a while. In the big cross campaign finale, one of the characters actually died from their part of the big fight. Its the same dm who i have previously mentioned in a comment realized some homebrew for a character was too op and said they would work on a better balance without ruining the character.
I have so many character ideas for Pathfinder 2e that I can just say “Hey; I’ve got a half-orc melee Ranger, an Automaton weapon Inventor, or a tiefling ratfolk magus with a great sword, you guys make your characters while I decide which one to actually use.”
I think I’ve got characters ready for just about any “role”, such as they exist. Although it’s probably gonna come down to how many of the others make characters trained in Medicine (seriously; that skill and two related skill feats - Ward Medic and Continual Recovery - is probably the single best source of out-of-combat healing in the game if you’re not under a time pressure).
Problem is I also have a bunch of meme ideas - like the latest one of a Leshy Druid with a Leshy Familiar (far from original, people have been kicking that combo around since leshies first came to the game, but this was gonna be an Ifrit Leshy grown from a chilli plant).
I use this approach most of the time without even intending to because I often end up joining campaigns that are already ongoing and need a replacement player.
Absolutely love the sponsor Ad
As someone who hasn't been a player in a few years, this is actually my plan for an upcoming game that I'll get to play in. We've got a few new players so I'm going to let everyone else pick what they want to play first, then I'll create my character around theirs.
Basically, I don't want my character to step on anyone's toes mechanically or from a roleplay perspective, I also prefer to have my characters to be able to fill a specific niche. It also lets me scale back the power of my character a bit the match roughly how the new players build their characters, I'd rather not come off as 'That Guy' with some hyper optimised min-maxed character. Plus I have so many different character ideas and concepts that I've thought up over the years but never had a chance to play while DMing.
Great video as always Mike!
Glad to hear only you and NO traffic! Congrats on your new place
Thank you!!
Mike, waiting is my go to move for most new campaigns.
In our current campaign, I play a mark of healing halfling whose background is part of a noble house... and is both the main healer and hates having to heal the party. It makes for fun roleplay interactions.
I tend to join a lot of ongoing games. Not sure why, it’s just what happens. I’m very rarely the legacy player in a campaign. This isn’t a bad thing. If anything, the style of character creation you are talking about here is why I am good at this and enjoy myself too. I tend to fish for information from the other players and the dm about their world, their characters, their themes, and their play styles (and yes, the mechanics too). I then try to make or find threads that will neatly allow my character to interact with each in some interesting way. I try to make parallel themes, or make my character a foil to another, or maybe tie certain backstory elements (with permission) or tie my own backstory into a part of the world the dm might want to show off or where they have a plot point they want the character to interact with. I try to write my characters up with plot hooks that will entice the other players and the dm to invest in my character and also make my character one that will want to be invested in theirs. Mechanically I do try to find areas that might help the party in their tactics. But I more focus on the social part when I can. I can usually make a suitable character with any class.
I just want to say I HIGHLY recommend figuring out what CHARACTER you want to play before (or at least at the same time as) figuring out what CLASS you want to use play. Am I a mud farmer on his last legs just looking for some excitement before my inevitable death? Am I an outcast that is seeking magical prowess to prove myself? Am I fanatically devoted to following the will of the gods, but not entirely sure which gods or what their will might be? As I’ve played longer, I have found this question way more important than what class/race combo I want to play. (Though there is for sure interplay between the two)
"It's not ideal for a government to have all the kings back."
If this had played 3 seconds sooner I'd've had a drink to spit out. It's an oddly true statement. Whether it means either the government collapsed after one king or there are too many cooks fighting over control of the broth.
What’s the scariest thing Mike would find if he got lost in your campaign notes?
Thanks so much to WorldAnvil for sponsoring this video! Visit www.worldanvil.com/supergeekmike and use the promo code SUPERGEEK to get 40% off any annual membership!
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Probably my bad handwriting 😅
I literally could not share that on youtube.
In the past, I have almost always selected my character to round out the party, and my approach did not change until the pandemic began. Years and years of being the rogue or cleric.
Since then, I've been more concept driven, letting a few options bubble up when I learn about the setting and then selecting one I feel will work with the setting and be enjoyable. My abjurer was an excellent fit for one campaign, my swashbuckler (PF2E) was a poor fit for another. I am waiting on an upcoming campaign where I've settled on a character, and we explicitly don't know what anyone else is playing.
I may go back to waiting and filling in the gaps, but probably in a hybrid model, as you articulated. Have a few options, and then see which suits the circumstances.
This is a good channel. I like Mike.
Me too!
Don't worry about owing us a video, every one of them is a gift
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Now I'm feeling called out on my campaigns currency, and timeline.
How did he know?! 🤣
Also, the frantic knock on wood was hilarious!
I will add to this that it's also kind of the technique you use when you are making a backup character. In my group we also care about group balance (there's a lot of gamers in it) so when someone dies the player first question when he needs to recreate a character is "what are we missing?". Plus you have a better understanding of the group dynamics and of the universe of the game to guide the creation of the character, which rejoin the "tailor made character" idea you were saying. Honestly I always had a lot of fun playing backups character. Hell the current character I'm playing is my backup in Strahd and they are honestly my favorite character I played in dnd
My current group has a lot of synergy, so I had to approach my back-up character as "What would fill the mechanical niche my character already fills, but isn't just My PC Jr.?"
Their has only been one time I’ve gone last and then filled a “spot”. In my latest game that’s starting up. We have 5 players 3 of witch are new (DM is also new) and the other player is debatably not the most effective gameplay wise(not to say she isn’t great and fun to play with). Knowing this I was inclined to pick someone who could heal. Lucky me, my favorite class, Cleric is one I haven’t been able to play long term yet! (Not playing strictly healer tho, twilight domain Woop Woop)
Also i saw that we were 2/4 into the technically historical pheasable group so I went into that too!
I usually try to go last because I can enjoy playing anything and would rather fill a need then force someone else into it.
I was in a game where we had 2 Rangers. I joined about 4 sessions in and the dm wouldn't tell me what classes the others were playing so I chose drakewarden ranger. One of the other players was a beast master and my character was severely outperforming hers in combat. I'm talking close to 2x or 3x damage. The dm then decided to lvl everyone up except for my character to "balance the party" but it didn't fix anything. I was still basically solo-ing every encounter because of my high plus to hit and extra damage from the drake and spells. Eventually the other player got upset and the dm had to kick me from the group. Keep in mind I took extra steps to make sure I wasn't power gaming. I actively refused magic items so I wouldn't be too strong and even tried playing support for a few encounters. Ever since that group I've taken special care not to choose the same class or even race as another player when creating characters so I can avoid a similar outcome
It's interesting, if unsurprising, that for the mono-class campaigns both featured very versatile full casters. Bard and Druid especially have the versatility and breadth to really put some space between characters, and magic gives everyone something unique... I sometimes wonder what a mono-class Fighter, or mono-class Rogue or Barbarian game might look like, how the DM would be able to change things knowing the players might never have access to the problem-solving magic of casters to any really effective level.
Man I need to find a group to play with again
I don't ask what *classes* there already are, I ask what *roles* there already are.
Level 11 is the sweet spot for the Tulok Cyclops build, 4 warlock for ASI, 2 fighter for action surge, 5 sorcerer for emergency counterspell. 3 beams per eldritch blast at that level, each with 10 more feet of get the fuck away from me.
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This has been a method I use (when I get to play). I've played a few clerics and lucked into playing other things as well.
I'm curious which of Tulok's videos you used to make your character. I've been watching his stuff for a few years now. (Not sure when I started, but I'm pretty sure it was before the Superman build.)
I’ll definitely discuss which video I referenced once I finally get around to filming the video about my character ☺️
The massive druid nerf/change in Feb 2023 as I am watching this has made that line at 8:30 funny even now
90% of my characters follow this approach, however I would add that I never care what CLASS someone is playing. I want to know what KIND of character. What do they do? I don't care that you're a fighter, I wanna know are you an archer? Do you smash things with a greatsword? Are you nimble and quick with daggers? Are you the meat shield/tank/damage sponge running around with lots of HP, AC, and Damage mitigation?
WHAT characters do and HOW they do it is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than the class/subclass they're playing. I've seen people with entirely different classes upset because they're playing basically the same character.
I always defined my character last in the very few groups I have played so far. Usually I end up being support. I dont mind playing support, but sometimes I want to play something else😅
I think the scariest thing Mike would find in my notes is how little there is in the way of notes. Most of the worldbuilding and session planning so far is in my head. Plus some maps I made. I know the flavour and sort of setting I'm creating and it's working out well so far. But notes? Who is she? XD
Being the forever DM, I usually have a stack of characters to choose from for the day I finally get to play and not a tie will ever be stepped on.
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Sir, I'm sorry those weren't my session notes. That was the first draft of a book I started writing in high school. I'm sorry for the confusion but I presently don't have any notes for the campaign I'm running.
I just started a campaign where I get to play instead of DMing. The party has 1 Fighter, 2 barbarians, and 1 ranger. I decided to play a Cleric. I have never played one before. I went the Twilight domain route. No idea if it is good or not. It just sounds cool lol.
Twilight domain is a very good subclass. Enjoy!
@@morganmcinroy4211 Thank you! And I will!
Hey while your there could you check on the tavern i think i left the stat block of an eldrich horror in that folder
OH GOD
@@SupergeekMike thats not good...
"I've got a coupon code you can use... to save. my. life."
Okay, this might be the best ad read ever. 🤣 Can we bring this style back?
First, I can’t say this enough but I love the way you are creative with the sponsor ads. They never fail to engage without feeling too much like an ad. I don’t feel hit over the head with it if that makes sense.
One of these days I’m going to join a campaign and I think I may fall into this approach. I don’t wanna step on toes and I don’t have super strong feelings about any class. Let me fill a gap at least a couple of times. And then maybe I’ll get some ideas of my own.
I hope I’m not in the minority, but I say don’t stress too much about your background. I’m much more interested in what you have to say, so if it comes together just a bit at a time, I think that’s fine!
How do you come up with names for characters? I’m just starting and I’ve come up with a rogue ranger fire genasi called Dante, he’s a noble who is now an outlaw (I’m stealing a little bit from Robin Hood for his origin lol)
My thing with 'balancing class choices' is more 'a team needs support, someone who can soak up damage if need be' someone who can reliably deal solid damage (be it magical, ranged or melee I'm not picky) just make sure that general bases are covered
does it have to necessarily need to be a cleric as healer/support? Nope sometimes its a druid, or a pair of divine sorcerers
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does anyone know what mike is talking about at 3:15? I’m about to play a bard and would definitely prefer it with the cleric/druid preparation mechanic, but i don’t see that being a feature listed in TCoE, just that they can replace one spell every level. I know OneDND playtest stuff has them as long rest prepare casters, so maybe he meant that? please let me know if I’m wrong
I think I was mixing up Tasha’s with an older Unearthed Arcana where it was another optional rule for bards!
@@SupergeekMike ahh okay thanks mike
Let me tell you, if the big bad final boss was all this time the blacksmith, that's a twist nobody would expect.
I'm really curious about this new character, what you did, what it's core concept, how much is hitting hahaha.
Since I'm not the player, I don't know what I would do if I join a campaing. I have some cool characters I'd like to test (that maybe I'll beta test them as NPCs), but playing Overwatch for so long I learned to try to add something that helps the team, not what I'd like.
I feel like this is what every player does...
I make my character last because i never like to make the same thing or something similar to another player.
Yeah, I did have a bad experience early on where I accidentally came to the table with a similar character to someone else and they got into a huff, which was only resolved when I pitched another character. Picking last really helped avoid experiencing that again.
14:15 Mike, please get out of my head.
Instructions unclear. Everyone in the group watched the video so now no one wants to choose first.
8:25 - Classes should fall into multiple sets where appropriate. A paladin is more Warrior than Priest, and this bizarre insistence that there’s four cleanly defined sets with three classes each just seems like pointless devotion to the number 12, and it’s wrong anyway because it forgets the Artificer, who’s a Expert and Mage, with a few Priest and Warrior features. WotC screwed up the design on this edition’s version, but the concept of someone who makes and uses items to do their magic is fun. When you’re scribing scrolls, you’re more of a ‘prepared caster’ than the wizard.
I like the City of Heroes (and Villains) party roles. Tanker is good at taking the hits so other’s don’t have to. Scrappers can dish out melee damage and give the tank a break, but they’re best at locking down and taking out high threat solo enemies. Blaster shoots, and often ends up inspecting the carpet because they drew too much attention. The Defender desperately tries to keep everyone alive with buffs and heals. The controller tries to lock down the enemies so they can be dealt with safely and methodically, but of course the Blaster can’t handle target selection…
4e did something similar - there were Leaders (Defenders), Controllers (Controllers/Blasters), Strikers (Scrappers), and Defenders (Tankers).
@@SupergeekMike - City of Villains remixed the roles a bit, usually toward putting the more aggressive powers up front. My overall favorite was the Mastermind, who was a bit of a tanker/controller, just soaking damage and keeping enemies tied up with summoned pets. I'd like to have something like that in D&D, but running the horde as individual creatures just takes too long. It's a bit better playing over discord, since I can roll for them all at once using Avrae.
Those who wait to settle on a character have always pissed me off as a GM. This is entirely due to one player in games I ran in the 80s. This was based on his desire to be the center of attention.
I play a lot of one shots and love building a character around the theme or picking one of my PCs that would "fit perfectly". So picking last to build something that will fit suits my style perfectly. To the point that I don't understand when other people don't.
Like having that ONE character idea and bringing it into next game no matter how it fits, puzzles me. And it's a little irritating. Not enough to bring up, more like a scratchy seam or tag in your shirt. Ignorable, but still there.
hahahahahahaha he said slowing down, ah. At least he didn't say quiet.........O.O wait.......
Lol