the problem with booktok: fast fashion publishing, booktok hockey drama, problematic booktokers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Booktok has a definite role to play in how publishing has changed for the worse. Not to mention the myriad of scandals and problematic personalities on the platform. It's all making booktok into a pit of chaos, and we need to address it.
TIMESTAMPS
00:52 what is booktok and who is it for?
01:21 booktok's role in fast fashion publishing
03:43 process of traditional publishing
04:30 consequences of fast fashion publishing
07:24 lack of diversity
08:36 credibility of 'booktok made me buy it' books
10:20 booktokers and accoutability...
12:05 the 2023 booktok hockey scandal
15:55 spicy booktok's predatory behaviour
19:47 booktoker and author interaction
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The spice obsession also goes the other way tbh. Like just the other day I saw someone say Red, White, and Royal Blue should actually be categorized as YA instead of adult cause it "isn't spicy enough" even though there are 2-3 explicit sex scenes and all the characters are 21+ like...people there have worms for brains, it's bad
This is the most ridiculous thing 😭 I just don't get how their minds work sometimes
I agree 💯 % when I started reading spice spice meant seggs on page how graphic didn't matter smut was smut now if it's not e⛰️ tica it's not smut 😅 like what? they will say "it's more YA" and I'm like absolutely not respectively if it's got scene on page it isn't ya imo ❤
Mainstream romance Booktok needs to retake the class on sexual harassment, boundaries and (age of) consent. It made me sad, romance is supposed to bring joy in our lives, not make real pp uncomfortable and NOT create new #metoo male victims.
🙃
They’ve tried to make their way into the car and gear head side of social media. They’re really really weird. Because they’re weirdly hitting on guys who
Run rather family friendly channels on TH-cam, and they can’t really talk shop with the rest of us. If you wanna get in with the gear heads you need to learn the lingo
@foreverdreamwithinadream6871 I understand where you are coming from but personally, i dont discriminate btw romance and erotica. I do believe, that more accurate labelling would help pp like you find the books you want to read more easily and that pp shouldnt be judged for how comfortable/uncomfortable explicit sex/"dark" themes scenes make them.
@foreverdreamwithinadream6871 Agreed. The romance genre is optimistic, it doesn't include anything and everything that has a romantic or sexual relationship in it. Mislabeling ruins the experience of finding a book you'd like to read.
I think you might be talking about dark e⛰️tica romance has to have a happily ever after in order to be classified as a romance novel but there have always been problematic romances some were so problematic in the 80s that they were rewritten in 90s dark E⛰️tica also has existed I imagine for a long time but the earliest of what I've read that has not aged well and would not recommend it is the claiming of sleeping beauty by Anne Rice
@unruffledhomelander the reason why people dont like it is because thats *not* what happens. Haunting Adaline is the main example of one of the MCs getting sexually assaulted by the other, but the only reason why its not considered as such by the narrative is because the FMC likes it despite ALSO having trauma because of a similar scenario by a different guy. After that we're just supposed to forget what happened since thats just the "meet cute"
I LOVE the term fast fashion publishing bc you're so right. Not only does it lower the standard of good story telling, it encourages young writes to write for attention - for the algorithms that DO push more and more harmful content bc negative attention is still attention. And like you said, it normalizes spicy smut, aka misogynistic, abusive behavior that literal teenagers feel pressured to read bc it's popular. I'm thankful ppl like you call out this bs
No girl I so agree cause I’m 15 and my friend is 18 she likes this book called haunting Adeline which is about a STALKER but she thinks the male mc is hot even when the own author of the book says the male mc sa’d the female mc and when I try to bring it up that that’s not ok and it’s weird she gets all defensive about it I mean she literally got angry about it so now she’s a young teenage girl thinking being stalked getting kidnapped and all these other horrid things are ok in a romantic relationship
What I want from booktok people is for them to read backlisted books. The older books in the genre that they’re reading. Then, I want them to analyze them to see if the genre has progressed, regressed or stagnated in terms of representation and diversity. Hell, I’d like to see that here on Booktube too.. I need hardcore analytical content about books.
This is very important. Im hoping to start a booktube. This is a very good idea.
Excellent commentary. Why is it that when white authors write Biracial or Black characters, the book may blow up and go viral. But when an author of color writes an actual own voices similar trope type story-it’s hard for their books to get noticed.
The industry makes an effort not to push all poc authors unless they are needed to "promote diversity" (aka make the publisher look good)
8:56 This made me remember how in every bookish-new-year-goals video I've seen, people mention not wanting to read just popular books anymore and wanting to find more books by themselves instead, and when I tell you every video, I mean every. single. one. 😭 People are TIRED.
And most of them will end up doing exactly that. Lol
The fatigue has set in DEEP! We want different 😭
You know what I find crazier about the whole "no diversity" thing on booktok?? Too many times poc authors that are put under the spotlight it's because a white author acted shitty towards them!! Honestly insane and disheartening the amount of cool books from amazing poc authors I discovered not because booktok saw their potential, but because they were in the middle of a white person drama...
I'm not even on booktok and I noticed this
Same. Very sad to think about. And there's just no way poc authors arent just "good" it feels someumes that people (most likely white) quite literally AVOID books that don't have white mcs...i may be wrong, though...i just find it odd that novels with poc characters coincidentally arent picked up as much. @de5072
That is one thing that I have also noticed. A lot of POC authors only get their books known because their names are somehow drawn into discussions about the actions of a jealous racist. Then people go out and buy their books out of sympathy and not because they are actually interested in the book itself.
This! I'm starting my booktube soon and I am Puertorican. I want to highlight POC. Not because someone is attacking a poc author but for their work.
honestly you can tell there's no developmental editing happening because i'm a lit major & i've done developmental editing type work for some self published authors before and like. i wasn't even hired as an editor i was literally just doing free critiques or beta reads for fun and literally as someone who wasn't even working as an editor i was putting so much work into the plot and character development aspects of these books?? and this was literally just me having hours long discussions about what i thought worked and didn't work with authors for FREE and then never talking to them again. working with actual developmental editors takes fucking AGES because they have to read your work, give you feedback, and then you WRITE ANOTHER DRAFT. and like. it's clear none of this is happening because of the breakneck pace of new releases & because said books that are marketed to the profitable market right now (booktok community) are mostly extremely poorly written and read like first or second drafts that a copyeditor skimmed over in 2 hours.
Seriously. I completely agree with this
That probably is why a lot of books I read more are by authors who don't publish a book every year but every 2-4 years. But then again I read a lot of adult fiction/historical fiction or high fantasy. I think romance genre is plagued with this issue of fast publishing.
I hope that makes sense
As a Black queer romance author, I’m honestly grateful my books will never get that kind of shine in BookTok. 😂 It sounds exhausting, and puts authors under such a stark spotlight. One thing I find interesting is that small presses and indies have a lot more maneuverability, but so many books are ebook only, and that seems to take them out of BookTok lore. But my first four books were published in 15 months and all had a minimum of five rounds of edits. But because they’re ebook only, we could push much closer to the release date than you can with physical books. Also, a lot of especially new authors have one book in mind, so when they’re asked for sequels and a tight turnaround time, it’s a mad rush. I don’t envy them at all.
Knowing the type of things that get popular on Booktok aka cringe heteronormative monogamous white shit, I think not getting popular is pretty good. I know I wouldn’t want my book to get popular there.
“qUeEr” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 what a bullshit.
I’d love to be an author but I also don’t want to be in any sort of spotlight 😅
@@angelsrosenayour life is bullshit
Please do the video on Booktok etiquette bec. I'm so tired of predatory, rude and bullying behaviours running rampant.
YES God knows we need it.
Yes please. Idk who I might be offending anymore by my unintended ignorance, making me afraid to even start
Stephanie Garbers last book was rushed and she said she asked for an extra month for editing. They now set the publishing date before the books are even done
Are you talking about ACFTL?
That's insane. People could have waited an extra month.
@@rashmi7074 Yeah that's why the publishing date was changed. She gave this reason out on instagram last year around the beginning of the year
@@katgreer6113 She did get the extra month, but I feel like even then she was still rushed and restricted to a time limit. The publishing date was pushed forward by a month. And I worded this wrong, it wasn't just editing, she changed the story. She said someone told her it didn't feel like her writing (the initial draft), and she agreed and went back to change it. If she had more time and wasn't restricted by a publishing date I imagine it would have been of better quality/less rushed.
Gosh the lack of diversity is so baad. I almost always just see romance or dark romance, or major romance focused stuff and some readers get so offended when you say "boy wish there was less romance" as though you kicked their puppy
I see this outside romance genres as well, outside booktok generally. EVERYTHING needs to have romance in it apparently. I love the Realm of the Elderlings series but hate the romance in it. Although to be fair, the author started out writing romance.
I haven't been following booktok for too long but immediately noticed the lack of diversity 😢
Even as someone who rarely goes there, the appalling lack of diversity is really frustrating
Yea, that seems to be the experience of almost everyone sadly 😥 but after a bit of tweaking, you can find yourself on the more welcoming side
Wrote an informative essay about BookTok for English class, was supposed to keep it neutral argument but it was so hard not to point out the flaws of ittt I went HARD on the bad parts, so glad someone else is talking about this
Agreed. We need more diversity and variety on booktok. And the sexual harassment has to stop. It’s disgusting. I enjoy smutty books sometimes but good lordddtttt nobody should become predators bc of it. No excuses. We need to keep trying to keep people accountable.
I have a high stress job. I read to decompress, to relax and be entertained. I don’t want drama outside of the pages I’m reading. All the points you so succinctly are the very reason I will never join TikTok or BookTok. You did a great job with this video and I appreciate your passion and honesty.
I know the video is a bit bleak, but there is a side of booktok that is welcoming and very great for all of us. You just need to curate your feed 🥰 I might do a video just in that as well
I'm working on a book series right now, and honestly, the marketing I'll have to do on TikTok, particularly in the BookTok sphere is terrifying 😰
This was an amazing video. I too do not like the booktok tables at stores 😂
Honestly, I pretend I don't see them anymore 😭 unless I want to be hopeful and take a peek to be on the lookout for good ones
Booktok recommends the same books over and over again. And they are normally terrible. I tried to find diverse booktokers..so hard! I dibt want to read books from the same authors again and again.
You really have to curate your feed, but it is possible to find loads of different books! I make it my mission to give loads of recommendations on books the regular booktok don't talk about
18:05 my frustration with the large percentage of YA that gets reviewed/hyped on Booktok is that the lines of YA, NA, and Adult General fiction are so blurred that a book being YA isn't consistently mentioned. And as an adult who doesn't want to read YA, I have been duped into books where all the hype I heard was "oh the romance, oh the chemistry." Then I start reading, and they are teens. YA is great, but I don't belong in it.
Also, to your point about all the different stages of editing required for a release, I wanted to add that it's not just the readers who lose out in this system. It's every level from the understaffed/underpaid editing and graphics departments, to the booksellers who have bad product for their customers, the rush on the printers, and the author.
Not only does the author not have time to write at their own pace, but their craft suffers when they don't get access to feedback and editing. Learning to be edited is a skill. And frankly, some authors come out looking bad because their debut was poorly edited, and their publisher did them dirty by rushing a half-baked book out to cash in on the hype. (This applies mostly to booktok big names and podcasters who have turned writers)
LOL! I love the way you frame things 😂
"go to your corner if you don't know how to behave"
"DECORUM, do you know decorum?"
I've been thinking about this for a while and I think it's so important to open this conversation because yes, there is just too much going on with punishing right now, realizing multiple "special" editions of the same book at once and just going full on materialistic. I actually fear of the environmental repercussions that will come out of this and how ultimately this could harm publishing in the long term.
I'd say booktok is for straight white women, there's not even queer books being recommended by a lot of them. It's so much straight romantasy and I'm tired xD you have to look for the diverse booktokers, which significantly ups the quality!
And if it is it’s usually MLM written by other straight women, never WLW or trans folk🫣
I haven’t been on TikTok for almost a year now but I do remember the rise of booktok and in the beginning, it wasn’t bad. It was a space for people to talk about the books they like and some of the ones they didn’t.
Now, however, it seems that if you don’t have the same opinion as everyone else, you’re gonna get bullied for it.
On top of that, the book that you’re being bullied for not liking is usually trash *side-eying THE spicy dragon book* (The fandom of that book series scares me)
On top of that, it seems like (as you stated) all of the books feel the same. Like, just same books being regurgitated constantly!!!
Off topic but that’s a great lip combo!
Interesting how books are being pushed with errors. Its something i expect for web novels. Now this is becoming a thing because it is rushed.
It's disheartening, but I've not lost hope for the industry yet
Completely agree! As an aspiring writer I literally have POC characters that are apart of the main story because I feel like it’s realistic? Like we may be reading fiction but fiction can be based on real life and in real life there’s more than 1 race lol. That’s why I love magnolia parks because there are so many POCs and whites and everybody can feel included
I stay away from booktok for a lot of reasons (mostly the problems you mentioned) but also because ive just noticed a lot of booktokers putting down people who read certain books. Ive always had issues with reading, so i tend to prefer shorter books that i already know a lot about (popular books, classic lit, authors i already know), and seeing a lot of these booktok people mocking people who read the same books as me is upsetting.
Also the "spicy" content addiction bothers me a lot as someone whose uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Again, if it gets you reading thats fine! But the issue is when people reccomend books with that content without adding a warning in the video. I just cant trust a lot of reccomendations anymore because no one mentions it, and it gets even worse when people reccomend dark romance books without mentioning the dark aspects. Its not like it costs anything to put a warning in the video, just because the person likes that content doesnt mean everyone does. Its made bridging out into romance books so much more difficult, and i cant imagine how much worse it is for people with trauma associated with this sort of content.
Completely agree!
Great video! Just wanna add to the whole tagging the author on a review thing. I have noticed that, even when reviewers specifically ask people to not tag the authors, there will be individuals who do so anyway. Whether for drama, or they themselves are a fan of the author, that needs to stop.
Yea, some people really just don't care about others and that's really sad. Hopefully we can find a way to drop them
I am a white woman and I often feel excluded by TikTok 🙈 Most of these books seem very alike - and if you don’t like that, you don’t like any of these…
Ditto, I find you have to be a white traditionally good looking young woman. And that's lovely they are doing it, but I know if I tried to do it I would get more comments on my figure than on the books.
Im so fucking tired of every book being a damn porno. Like I want a good story, not just reading smut. It is all the same story lines, no creativity, no plotline its the same story over and over.
That's literally all anyone coming into it (BookTok) new seems to hears about too, and it's unfortunate. There are other genres!
It discourages me as an aspiring writer who likes to bring the plot to the forefront of my novels and only bring the erotica into it if it moves the plot forward.
I also absolutely hate the booktok made be buy in Waterstones. My waterstones has an entire shelf and I cringe every time. 😂
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! sigh
SAME
This is a great rundown on a bunch of booktok's shameful behavior, I like how passionate your energy is with your hand gestures and voice. There are nice creators on there, but the "mainstream" booktok really is exclusionary, repetitive, and immature.
Can’t wait to hear your take on this!
Booktok in the beginning was great! I’ve gotten many books from searching recommendations and the romance genre is always my go-to. But now…I just see the same books being recommended over and over…and it’s all just smut. I like a good spice scene but sometimes it’s repetitive or it’s going on for too long and it’s just like okay I get it, can we move on now?😂. Im trying to expand my pallet and look into thriller and sci-fi because these ‘fast fashion’ romance books are not giving me that feeling of love/emotional connection anymore. They’re just being pushed out. No real love story. Same books, same characters with same trauma. Trauma! Trauma! Trauma! I’m over it! 😂
Iron flame is an example of bad publishing. It was soooo rushed bc booktok can’t wait.
There are so many ways I've been wanting to see publishing adapt and evolve, over even the last decade, so it's so disappointing seeing them consistently cut corners. And to feel so reactionary as an industry right now.
It's definitely disheartening, but I also believe there's hope for it to get back to its better ways, especially with so many people calling them out!
@@shelleys.corner Absolutely! 🤞
I'm not on TikTok at all but this was an interesting video. I will say I think the lack of boundaries is sad, because people should always put themselves in the other side's shoes. Like you said, it's awful to tag an author who might have worked super hard and been very proud of their work with your bad review. Also, saying inappropriate things to others, public figure or not - we don't accept men talking to girls that way so it shouldn't be different. Maybe there's a disconnect that they're used to fawning over fictional characters and don't quite get the impact on real people? I see that with TV shows sometimes.
I can't help but wonder if Brandon Sanderson is part of the fast fashion problem. He released a lot of books in a single year, but I don't think publishers are taking into account that he worked on them years before he announced them. They just saw his success and decided to try and replicate his output.
He's been in the industry for years so I think he now has sway over how he wants things done, so with his multiple releases, I think it's more so just a him thing. I love that for him, but you're right, I don't think publishing is taking into account that he's had decades to plan and write, and they try to have new authors be just like him
I was thinking this too. He edits his books at least three times each. He is insane with his writing and publishing but he is a unique case. I don't think there is anyone else like him in the industry
Hi! I am a very new subscriber and just wanted to say that I love watching you rant!! I love all your takes and that is pretty rare! so good job and keep making these amazing videos 😁
Aw thank you so much! It's funny to hear someone say 'keep on ranting' but I love it 😄❤️
I prefer buying books that are less well known as they tend to be more enjoyable to me. Also could i possibly get some recommendations for fantasy or historical fiction books that are more diverse? I would like to diversify the books I read and I'll really appreciate it! I prefer more adult fantasy, historical fiction that is not just WW1/2 and crime :)
Celeste ng writes a lot of historical stuff but from like the 60s so maybe not too historical. How we disappeared - Jing-jing Lee
Pachinko - min Jin Lee
I enjoyed the sellout - Paul Beatty but that was a long time ago and I probably didn't understand the nuances as much as I could have. I need to reread it.
I think truthwitch by Susan Dennard has POC in a fantasy world but again it's been a while.
Historical Fiction Books: The Berry Pickers, The Vaster Wilds, Weyward, The Echo of Old Books, The Last Russian Doll, Learned by Heart, The Daughters of Madurai, A Marvelous Night, The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store, The Attic Child, Libertie, Take My Hand, Woman of Light, Homegoing, The Library of Legends, Inheritance of Orquidea Divina, The Henna Artist, In Search of Fatima, The Personal Librarian, Let Us Descend, River Sing Me Home, Symphony of Secrets, The Hacienda, Where There Was Fire
Do you want diverse books like in terms of race? Country?
CRIME: I really like the Perveen Mistry books by Sujata Massey, the Sam Wyndham books by Abir Mukherjee, J.P. Pomare's thrillers
HISTORICAL FICTION: Song of the Sun God by Shankari Chandran, Ibis Trilogy
@@wept_in_the thank you!
@@stormeyedselkieNo problem! Margo Lanagan's short stories are amazing and Harini Nagendra's books are great too.
I am really liking Celeste Ng's Our missing hearts. I love her other books and you may enjoy it too. I am not on booktok (or TikTok at all) and just pick things up I like. However I do just like Celeste Ng as an author in general.
I also recommend the travelling cat chronicals - Hiro arikawa
Pachinko - min Jin Lee
How we disappeared - Jing-jing Lee
The phone box at the edge of the world - Laura imai messina
This is where it ends - marieke nijkamp
I haven't heard anyone talk about these books or authors and I enjoyed them a lot. If you want unique recommendations that not everyone is talking about
So GLAD I found your channel! I'm sitting talking to the TV, like u can hear what I'm saying .... 😂
I stopped following BOOKTOK a while back. The books that were being hyped just weren't good reads. I can't begin to tell u how many mediocre books I've read in 2023. It's like publishing doesn't care about putting out good books. They're just chasing that dollar. I understand that publishing is a business, but they can't keep putting out less than average stuff and expect the consumers to keep buying.
Forgot to mention how CLICKISH both Booktube/Booktok can be. It sometimes make me feel like I'm back n high school. I tend to stay away from the huge channels and follow the smaller ones. Their channels come across as more organic and welcoming.
I plan on being VERY selective with what I purchase AND read in 2024.
Take care!
Thank you! And I'm talkative, so I do the same when watching videos lol 😂 it can be clique-ish but you can also find great friends in booktok as well, so there's hope 🥰
my major problem is GROWN WOMAN romanticising books with toxic and abusive tropes.
honestly agree agree agree agree! If a cis male dominated fan base demonstrated the same predatory behaviour they would be rightfully cancelled????? So why is booktok allowed to perpetuate this behaviour? it’s absolutely ridiculous!
Oh my goodness this was such a great video! As a new booktuber and just starting to get into booktok, I have been noticing some similar things that I want to chat about too. Especially around the spice.. It's all good if people want spice in their books but it's also okay for there not to be spice. I personally like YA Romance specifically for the lack of spice lol. Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts! Loved hearing your thoughts.
New subscriber now, thank you!
Just found your channel and so glad I did. Love your content
Aw thank you so much!
Love your clever thoughts on this topic!!! You are absoluetly correct about the diversity problem and its consequences!
Really well done commentary on some of these issues, laughed out loud with the decorum part because some people really be out there being menaces and then pretending they did nothing wrong when they're called out. I'm also really glad I don't follow Booktok and most of the bootubers I watch mention reading different genres and are all about e-books/libraries/exchanging books among friends, because both the overconsumption and the need some creators feel to always read the new/trendy thing is exhausting.
You are so funny, love your comments on this ❤
Haha thank you! Happy you enjoyed it❤️
I LOVE this video, as it is better said than I ever could. I would love for Booktok to recommend me books other than Sarah J Maas (I'm over that phase) and The Fourth Wing. I love fantasy, but I would like to read more than just one genre.
Anything that focuses on views will always regress to the highest views which is usually 1 genre/ style. Variety is killed in the pursuit of views
So glad I'm not the only one that won't touch booktok books. I usually stick to adult fantasy, far away from dark romance, and I can't find myself reading Colleen Hover.
I hit subscribe immediately! 😂😂
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Same!
22:28 yes, please! 😊
I will be a Booktube Newbie this week and this was a great video to be aware of. Thank you for your perspective, opinions and facts. This is the first video I've seen address these concerns, and again I am a NEWBIE and I'm looking foraward to being an asset to the Booktube Community
Great video. You got a new follower ❤
Just finished reading a beautiful collection of original fairy tales entitled 'Sillies, Fancies, and Trifles' which is perfect for the season. Thought I'd add it to this lovely list and see what everyone else is reading, let me know :)
4:53 all the books in the series are written and edited at the same time, not sequentially.
The only good books from booktok was Song of Achilles and Booklovers. As an aro/ace I hate that books are becoming “Spicey” and doesn’t have good context, character developments and plot. I also think that the new “cutesy” cartoon covers that some of these books have are very misleading and often target teens as well when in reality it’s a adult themed book.
I will say I have avoided booktok. But I rly like the diversity of creators and genres on booktube. It's not just young white women recommending books.
That sexual harassment is not okay.
I’m also gonna need the big booktokers to tell us when a book is poorly edited!
I'll never trust booktok after buying fourth wing
I would watch Abby Cox's video on the dangers of comparing booktok-influenced publishing to fast fashion. It does a disservice to the human rights and environmental impacts of fast fashion. Poorly edited books can't compare.
th-cam.com/video/D3fJcgE8BJU/w-d-xo.html
I agree with everything else you said though. Very well made video. :)
Oh my god... YES! I'm willing to wait years and years for the next book that I would enjoy than to rush it and get dissapointed. Sorry, can't say much about booktok but I too stay away from bookstore table with #booktok in it 😅 and booktok community kind of scares me 😣
The way i just found out im on the right side of booktok 😳
Some of my favourite authors are diverse Nicola Yoon, R.F.Kaung, Sabaa Tahir and many more
I just joined BookTok and I am not going to be like these tiktokers u talked about.
😂😂you literally cannot spell the name of a “diverse” author you claim to like… it’s Kuang not Kaung. 😅if you gotta virtue signal at least do it right.
@user-yj3dg5vq6o I am dyslexic so I get some words wrong sometimes OK, so stop with the shit yourself please
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No solutions offered.
Reading comprehension is key. I never said I had the solution. I said there are problems that need to be addressed and in my video, discussed exactly that.