Do different speaker cables and interconnects make a difference?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- I am so getting flame for this. If you disagree, and I am sure there are millions of you out there and going to leave a comment, at least please make it intelligent instead of the usual 'snake oil' , 'you idiot' comments.
I do however believe that the mark up on speaker cables are ridiculous and it's the most over priced item in the stereo world. I am not saying I agree with it and I am one who will never pay retail price for cables. I am however saying that cables do make a difference. The question of price is a question on speaker cable value and it's a completely different debate.
![แม่กลองสองใจ - ซีแกรม โตเกียว มิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GSQfVjcr_f4/mqdefault.jpg)
I substituted high-quality, high-dollar interconnects for the lamp cord on my bedside lamp. It was like a veil was lifted. The light was no longer harsh and glaring.
lol
hahahaha
that made my day. I'll have to remember that one.
Good one!
Classic! Haha!
Thomas, I'm an electrical engineer and a music lover so here's how I see things. First and foremost CABLES DO NOT IMPROVE SOUND. The only degrade sound. And this is where cables make a difference. In what they degrade. There's 3 main characteristics of a cable: resistance, capacitance and inductance. There's a few more but they matter less and less. Without getting to technical you want all 3 parameters to be as low as possible, but that is physically imposibile. If you lover 2, the third will increase having a detrimental effect on certain aspects of the frequencies. If you want bass you need low resistance - ticker wire. A 18AWG cable will have less bass than a 10AWG cable. No doubt about that. But then we get into psychoacoustics - how our brain interprets sound. You see, when there's less bass we perceive to hear more detail and highs. And vice-versa with more bass we perceive less detail and highs. You are right in having 3 set of cables, one for bass, one neutral and one for highs to compensate for electronics/speakers. Do you need to spend hundreds, maybe thousands?? Definitely no. I have a pair of speakers that cost me £1500. If i get a set of cables that cost £500 I will have a much much smaller improvement in sound than replacing my speakers with a pair that cost £2000 and keeping my cheap 12 awg copper cables. So yes, cables make a tiny difference, but I would much rather spend that money in better speakers or electronics and getting a bigger return on my investment. Power cables on powerful amplifiers need to be shielded, not to clean the power to the amp but to prevent it from interfering with the interconnects. As for usb cables the signal either passes or it doesn't. The difference is in noise isolation between the 2 devices. Namely how the cable is shielded. In short, certain electronics will sound worse if the shielding is connected at both ends, hence connecting the 2 ground planes of the 2 devices. That is why I prefer unshielded. Use shielded only if your home is severely affected by RFI/EMI. And then you have the dodgy electronics producers (looking at you British brands) which intentionally tweak their products to work better with certain cables by making their products very sensible to impedance and/or capacitance.
Nicely written.The only thing that makes me go hmm and I can never explain it to someone who don't believe in cables is the measurements. Right now, there is this null test video going around and non cable believers are using that as the absolute truth.
@Sorin G : Yours is one of the best and better reasoned comments about cables I've read in many, many time.
For me the very question "Do you BELIEVE in cables?" is pure non sense. I believe in cables the same way I can believe in parrots.
This is not a matter of FAITH, but a matter of FACTS.
So, thank you for explaining those facts as clear as you have done.
Thomas & Stereo I've briefly looked at the null test and it is valid for what it's designed to do. But that does not encompass all that can influence audio sound. Like saying the thermometer displays 20C so I must dress for 20C. What the thermometer does not show is wind chill and humidity. 20C in sunshine is t shirt and beach time. But if it's windy and the humidity is 85% you better put a worm coat on.
Great comment . Resistance, capacitance, inductance, group delay(part of the others), shielding, and their stability over frequency and power/amplitude. There are the questions of how long a run? and, what power are your handling? That's all there is at those frequencies. Which is a lot. But there's the question of human perception and is there even a reality outside of it, which cannot be answered definitely. In the way physicists tell us that color is simply a construct of your eyes and brain. In reality there is just a different energy/frequency of photon. Agree that on normal power and length runs money is MUCH better spent elsewhere beyond mid level with enough gauge. But at Thomas' level of equipment, there is no reason to skimp in a big way, even just for the look. Yes a cable can knock down treble or something and it can be perceived as an improvement, but that is a VERY difficult way to tweak a system.
Good cable do make difference. But are they necessarily expensive? For audio, probably not.
From what I have learnt and what I know from people. 300-500 dollars (depends on profit margin and length etc) is the maximum amount to spend on a single cable for speakers. 200 dollars is probably the max for interconnects. There are many companies make shit cables to color the sound.
Also the problem is the best cables probably don't sound the best on particular systems. Most of the time they make speakers to very revealing and use cables, amplifiers to calm the treble down. So that's different from building everything in the chain objectively and make it perfect. It probably won't sound pleasing.
But personally I would rather to learn to like the objectively better sound than buying expensive shit.
I appreciate the balance and logic of your videos - thank you.
Thanks for the support
oh my... This video is so quiet that I got a heart attack when the advertisement kicks in...
Nice video though
OMG! Me too! And when he dropped something I almost fell out of my chair!
thanks for the warning ⚠️
Reading your comment kept my hand at the ready on the volume, saved me a heart attack. Thanks!
You are my favorite audio TH-camr by far. Still waiting for that Sopra review...
At the end of this day (Sunday), all the tangled-cables mess I've been reading here is... Oh, so funny and enjoyable! 😃
Last year, I thought it was worth $10 to find out if cables could make my music system sound better. That first $10 interconnect worked, and cables have cost me about $400 since. Wish I had caught on years ago.
I have to commend you for your approach and skill in navigating through a course of tricky obstacles.
THE best reviews on you tube!
I just ordered some Audioquest Rocket 33s. I am going to test them using my ears and my son's 17 year old ears on Monday. Thanks for your article!
It is possible you hear no difference. Check this video where I explain why.
th-cam.com/video/ItFctnwSmDU/w-d-xo.html
Is there any difference between an interconnect cable to subwoofer cable besides the length?
What cables of 1/4 TS would you recommend for me to get for connecting a digital piano ES8 to iloud MTM? I looked into mogami coaxial.
Sorry I would not know cause it depends what you find missing in your system. The problem with cables is really a question of synergy.
Those in the know go OYAIDE.
u r doing its great..job.. keep doing it..
I agree. In theory one good cable is as good as another but all wires have three properties that we must consider and that is that they are affected by resistance, capacitance and inductance. Variations in the three properties cause coloration just like crossover components do. I had a HK amp with factory installed chrome plated brass jumpers bridging my pre out amp in and it sounded congested. I swapped it with good copper cable and it sounded musical.
Now if I had money to burn 10K interconnects will do for cosmetic reasons. But all three properties being equal a 20 dollar cable and a 20k cable will not sound any different.
Thomas, I’m grateful that I can’t hear a difference. But to each their own.
Agreed brother. 100% agreed.
Coca cola doesn't have the exact taste as Pepsi, however with a blind test we can't always tell which is which.
Don't smoke.
Lmao what
I don't know, Coke and Pepsi changed for the worse after they switched from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup at the beginning of the 1980s.
Hi Thomas,
In a previous reaction I shared my experience in replacing poor quality speaker cables with better ones... it was a matter of turning a poor outcome into a satisfying sound.
Totday I replaced a basic rca interconnect with the entry-level rca interconnect from c-chord on my 2nd system (Bluesound node 2i, XTZ Edge A2-300 amp, Monitor Audio Silver RX1 bookshelf speakers, SONY active 130W sub SA-WMS815). I didn’t expect much improvement... because I already used a short interconnect... which performs really good on top recordings...but whooooooooow! Recordings I thought to be inferior quality suddenly revealed open highs...
The entry-level interconnects from c-Chord (50€ for 0,5m or 60€ for 1m) is a perfect cable for testing if better interconnects can make a difference on a system.
Keep up the good work Thomas!
Dago
Thanks Dago for sharing your story, hopefully it will open other people's mind.
Analog interconnects benifit from better quality.
What do you think about Audio Sensibility and Wireworld cables?
I don't really have experience with them so no idea.
As a tool maker (injection moulds) and a tinker-er this is fun!thanks Tom.
My experience is like this. Speaker cables: as decent full copper cables as possible was a major improvement €9,- per meter. Had an option for audioquest speaker cables but they actually had a negative effect for me. Some decent analog signal interconnects between the hardware made a difference. Any digital signal: (yes i've seen optical goldplated cables as claimed by the manufacturer), used several different brands from low to for me high range price (up to €75,- per cable) and didn't hear any change. Went for build and feel quality for digital cables so not cheap but certainly not expensive. The biggest accidental improvement I ever had was when I bought a new sofa. Just saying.
To Each His Own! Funny I came across this- did this test with 6 friends between (in short) a set of $50 cables & speaker wire vs my friends set ($500) and yep, no one could hear any difference. But that's not the point with hobbies - its nice to know you have what you think is the "best" so, whatever makes someone happy is what's important. Sometimes the slightest "spec" improvement makes you feel warm & fuzzy : ) Good video -
The reason why you don't hear a difference is because there is no difference in that test. Most cables sound the same, if I were there, I would have chosen a specific set of cables that have completely sound characteristics. Btw, I fail AB test with cables too so that is why I completely understand where you are coming from.
a lot of sound file are different and the recording and details are different.
What about the gauge size, does that affect any? I know length will.
You hit the nail right on the head, cables just should not be so expensive for what they do...
Ah, my kind of topic! I like your channel and your honesty Thomas! I used to be a skeptic, but I gave it a try and discovered a new arena of sonic excellence in "Any" cable, including power cables. Once, I discovered this, I expanded and used my 30 + years as an electronics engineer to find that Elusive "Grail" in audio.
At first, I discovered methods and materials that were inexpensive to create sonically perfect sounding cables, but this wasn't enough for me. After many alternative cable designs, I realized that no matter what electronic gear or speakers were used, there was something missing! I then knew I was searching for the Audio Grail!
About a year ago, I accidentally stumble on a specific technology, at first I was in disbelief. But after a few weeks I realized just how much potential this discovery would unveil. After a few months, I created devices that converted that ordinary semiconductor sound to tubelike sound (but with perfection). I then went back to the cable designs and adjusted the sonic purities to create what my ears wanted to hear. Everyone has their own final preference when it comes to audio dynamics, richness, fluidness etc... YES, cables make a significant difference. Each has its own sound signature.
Anyways, I have 2 patent pending devices that I hope to find interested companies to license, then this technology can be released. When I get a first deal contract, I can then perhaps send you prototype samples to review? Would you be interested? thanks!
Yes, looking forward to it your prototype sample. Thanks for the long comment.,
Sure...
@@esotericaudiophile3884 did you cryogenic freeze the copper,and put a battery at one end?
@@johnbravo7542 haha, funny... Yes! ( a 9V)
Thomas, what state do you reside? How can I contact you?
I’m very curious if there’s any audible difference between hi-if cable and pro cable like Mogami, Canare or Belden
I know two BBC sound engineers who use lamp cord
Which one of those do you recommend as the best bang for the buck? And what do you think about Auditorium 23, Tellurium Q Black, and Audiosensibility?
The only one I tried is audio sensibility, the one I had was so so only. Best bang for the buck are some of the high end DIY cable I got my hands on. Else, the safe bet is transparent super.
@@ThomasAndStereo Have you heard Transparent Music Wave MM2, now discontinued? Can be had for $600 used.
I once heard System Audio Pandion speakers sounding superb. I asked the vendor about cables and he said Kimber Select 6063 or 6065, cannot remember exactly. Cables were $11000 and the Pandion bookshelf $5000
The only very expensive cables I have heard are Transparent reference 5. Those I spent a bit of time with it. I did hear way more expensive maybe even $100k , as those are the opus and opus magnum transparent but I have no idea how they sound though. I think it's a bit crazy though.
I've worked as a sound engineer in many top recording studios... if the music isn't recorded with expensive cables then it won't make a difference coming out of your amp. During the recording process the audio goes threw miles of cables in consoles, outboard gear and much more. Also the signal of a microphone before the pre amp is so low that the mic XLR would be the most important cable in the signal chain. Most recording studios use digiflex or mogami cables and record all the music you listen to... If they don't use audiophile cables you don't have to either... Mastering studios don't even spends ridiculous sums on cables... The music you are playing has travelled threw thousands of meters of shitty cables at some point in its creation but somehow the cable you are using at home makes a difference :-) In any case :-) 100% Snake Oil :-)
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail and its great to have a different perspective. I see it differently though. Meaning what is recorded in a studio one thing. What is recorded in a studio is one step of the chain and there is a final output from that process. A cd will sound different in different systems because of different amps, preamps, cables and so forth. The fact that a studio use only decent quality cable for recording does not mean that using different cables in a stereo system will all sound the same. Also, a studio is a business and there is the cost vs return factor to consider. Maybe using better cables will improve recording by 2% and from a cost perspective, it makes no sense. I don't know but just trying to think of different possibilities.
Using cable will not enhance sound beyond what is recorded in a studio, that is not possible. However, it might sound 'better' than comparing to another cable. I really see it as 2 different things. Is it possible that some studio out there might record using higher quality gear and that is why there is different quality from different studio? I don't know as I am not a sound engineer. What I do know, and as I explain in my video, regardless all the science and logic, is what I hear at the end of the day and I sadly do hear a difference. I wished I do not so I can save all the stupid money I spend on cable.
Lets note that using different "gear" will give different results, but the funny thing in audio is there is no "right" answer. Everything is left to the listener, so in the end there is no way to accurately know what the recording is "SUPPOSED" to sound like. :-) I've done many blind A-B tests in studio with Dynaudio, Genelec and Totem speakers with different cables and no obvious results. It sounds to me that you have a condition many of us have in the recording/studio industry called "G.A.S." Gear Aquisition Syndrome :-) We all love shinny gear with nice military grade buttons and cables thicker than my thighs however I can assure with absolute certainty that spending lots of money on cables or interconnects would be better spent on speakers, amp or a heafty donations to your favorite charity or basically anything else :-) Best of luck, nice videos :-)
Haha, I love it, G.A.S. You absolutely nailed it and I call it a disease. I don't mean it in a sarcastic way because in the chinese audio, we use the term being poisoned. I also am not blind to the absurdity of spending stupid amount on cables and that is why I call it a disease. I appreciate how professional you are in your comments. I 100% agree spend money on the amp, preamp, speaker and I always try to convince my audiophile friends too. Although I believe in cables, I am not excited about it, I will have friends lend me $1000+ cables and they usually sit there at my place for a while before i try them while anything else , like dac, amps I borrow, I test it on the same day I get it. I think the least money should be spend on cables.
Hello Richie :) ...sometime it can make a Big difference :)
th-cam.com/video/frYTa5VQhsI/w-d-xo.html
Well said. So few people have this picture. And this is the very reason why I seek out well recorded music regardless of medium; like vinyl , CD, SACD, or digital downloads.
Thomas, Please advise which is better ported or sealed subwoofers for music? Would regular 16G cable work? What is your honest opinion on SVS equipment value for money? Thanks
For music, I prefer sealed subs. It is faster and tighter. For a sub, you would need a coaxial cable, I think rated at 75ohm. (have to double check). SVS are well know for producing great quality product at a good price.
Just do the double blind test, shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes. All this talk about "hearing a difference" and "rejecting the science" sounds pretty shady, like a man convincing himself he wasn't conned. I have never seen anyone actually demonstrating or proving they hear a difference, how weird, because I can hardly think of a simpler experiment than this.
Anyone who ever test cables will know cable testing is not a 15 min test. Just like any body who is a smoker will know its so good to have a cigarette after a meal, anybody who don't smoke will not 'get it'. As i mentioned, 20 to 30% of the cables I tried I can past the test 100% of the time. The rest, my ears are not that good. I only end up keeping 20% of the cables I tried.
Regarding ABX testing, see below. There is no point moving the conversation forward because we will end up disagreeing and it will be just a back and forth debating with no end.
th-cam.com/video/cy2MsscuBnM/w-d-xo.html
@Akeno AkitaInu I agree
I didn't know nor believe that cables could make a difference in my initial years of obsession with music. I own multiple audio components like the Primare i35, Hegel H80 & Marantz PM8005 integrated amps driving KEF R300 & Dynaudio Evoke 50. I thought I'd try out a couple of quality cables which wouldn't cost a bomb and I was amazed to hear some differences. The easiest thing I could pick up on is like cymbal sounds, highs sounding better with BJC Belden cables versus chord carnival silverscreen cable that I was using for years and now the chord's been sitting in a drawer. Even my wife who cares less for all things audio though she does like music to some extent could tell it sounded somewhat different and better. So I'm convinced cables do matter and if it works for you that's all that matters. Its no point debating and arguing about it and trying to get others to prove their point.
The problem with blind tests is they're really hard to do. Practicalities aside, it's mentally fatiguing and hard to recall sections of music that quickly with the required accuracy. It can only really work with something like foobar where you can switch between two files instantly.
Great information! My only feedback is to work on the audio levels in your reviews. I spent most of the time chasing my volume dial to either turn way up, or turn way down my volume to be able to hear what you were saying.
Thanks for the feedback. Fortunately I bought a mic now and the more recent videos have better audio.
Hey Thomas, what are your views on bi-wiring with Polk Lsim vs single runs with stock jumper? Did you get a chance to experiment when you had the 707's?
If you bi wire, it has to be 2 kind of wires. I personally find bi amping make more of a difference. Don't forget to remove the jumper.
I upgraded my old speaker cables to AudioQuest Cinnamon's. There was an improvement with the AQ cables. The AQ cables are 17 gauge so as a comparison, I bought a pair of $50 12 gauge cables from Amazon and they sounded even better. For my test, the gauge made more difference than the cost.
That is awesome, for me cable synergy is more important than price.
Your conclusion says it all. Also, it depends on the resolution of the system. Thx Thomas. Oh, I was a non believer since that trend entered the market...
Hi Thomas have recently got the Mogami W2804 Neglex 3 Rca cable, earlier was using Supra Rca with my kef R3 with Parasound amp.. The mogami’s sound thin somehow is it me..
I didn't believe in cables until I tried some transparent audio speaker cables with my speakers. It was a significant change from the hardware store cables I was using!
You mean lamp cord?
Do you mean lamp cord?
Cables do have capacitance and inductance, so they can in theory change or color the sound, however playing with lenght and gauge is probably all that's needed to get the sound you want.
Keven Harvey again sorry there is more to cable design and sound quality than that
Great talk. Very candid, straight-forward, sensible. Thanks
What are your thoughts on using solid core speaker cable vs stranded? Which do you prefer considering its the same gauge (i.e 12awg)
For me, there is no better. It all depends on synergy. Meaning, which amp am I pairing with which speaker. There is no absolute for me.
Thomas & Stereo thanks. do you think solid cables really do tend to roll off the treble?
I have tried some that does and I have come across some that don't. For example, these thin solid core speaker cables from Totem that I just got right now with the Kinplay does not.
@@ThomasAndStereo thanks. how about in general -- do solid core cables roll off the highs? reason I asked is because you have tons of experience with lots of cables and I recently tried to use Solid Romex 12awg and while the definition and layering is very much improved, it appears both bass and treble went down a tad. I dont have much resources to play with cables so I wanted to know what is the safest choice but good enough. are semi stranded (multiple 23awg solid cores) like audioquest's cheapest cable be (x-2) a safe bet?
I don't have much with solid core because I tried a few and did not like the sound. Thinking back, I guess you are right that they tend to roll off the highs. I have to ask my other friend who has tons of cables to get his take.
*I have found that it is simply about the cable gage, proper isolation and good connectors!*
True, but the best connections are the bare wire itself. The more connections or joints from the bare wire to Spade lug or RCA or banana plug create a change capacitance and resistance which will change the sound of the audio. So the best connector is none at all.
@@MS-np6hv You'll need to have your gear suspended in a perfect vacuum, with cables strictly separated between them.
Not too practical solution, I'm affraid.
Sorry there is more to it than that
Hi Thomas, do you use Transparent Super interconnect MM1 or MM2?
Hi, MM1. MM2 are still too expensive for me
Thomas & Stereo mm1 and mm2 have quite the same price. Gen5 is indeed still expensive.
Speaker cables and interconnects are worth spending some money on. They most certainly make a difference. I have 40 years of hearing the differences. They can be fairly subtle but when you are hearing new instruments or an additional drummer or a formerly harsh sound is now sweet on a track you have listened to maybe 1000 times on various system then it is worth some money. I recently discovered Ringo's faint conga solo on 'A Day in The Life' after changing to a QED Reference Audio 40 interconnect. In my experience I spend 10% of my total cost on cables. A fine cable is a thing of beauty...
I always wonder about QED cables and a few chance to get them. Maybe I should give it a try one day. You experience echos mine and thanks for sharing.
....and a thing of beauty is a joy for ever !
Beside that: a really good cable lasts decades. Especially the silver/ gold ones.
I agree; there is a point where quality of material starts to come in, as well as termination quality. So even if you like to stay at an affordable level, using well made but down-to-earth plugs and nice cable from companies like Belden and Mogami can give very satisfying results.
Real high end cables are between 20k - 100k 😵
Cables do make a difference, but the laws of diminishing returns kicks in fast.
I have two patent pending devices that perform better than any cable, they work at the subatomic level (many call audiophile Voodoo) hehehe! Yeah, no need to buy ultra expensive cables. I agree with the law of diminishing returns.
Chris Bishop no
actually no. It's not the diminishing return. It's that objectively best cables may not sound very pleasing in some systems. So that's where is the room for cables that are expensive but objectively shit.
Yes
I think the main point put forward here is great, whether you think cables make a difference, and whether you can hear the different, most of the conversation is about whether you should spend the money, or is the difference you hear worth the cost. If you don't hear it, then no. If you hear it, then maybe. If it brings you joy and doesn't cause you problems, then yes.
Digital Coaxial vs Optical for 2 channel or surround. Which is better?
I didn't really AB test both so I don't know. Sorry.
Generally coaxial all things being equal. Coaxial input and output stages on devices typically have higher bandwidth than typical photo transceivers used on digital optical interfaces. This means that the square wave signals will have faster edges on coaxial which in turn will reduce jitter degradation. This will be more important if the DAC/receiver doesn't re-clock the incoming signal. A re-clocking DAC will be less affected by incoming jitter so optical may sound closer in that case.
I can understand people not being able to tell the difference with 2-channels of a short cables but when one has got 9-channels (Atmos) of various lengths, that is when one is likely to pick up on all the radio frequencies.
After I changed all my cheap unshielded cables to expensive shielded cables, not only can I binge watch my movies but more importantly I can listen to my 2-channel music without any interference whatsoever, so in my case it's not so much about expensive cables but rather having good shielded ones.
It’s nice to see at least many of you have tried and are convinced cables make a difference in the sound. most audiophiles have known this for many years. For those of you who can’t get past the technical aspects maybe think about it this way. of course we know there is technical and electrical parameters that play a factor, and yes you can even play with some of these parameters and hear differences in the sound higher capacitance to lower inductance or another combination but which one provides the best sound is impossible to determine. Just like audio gear you can’t look at specification and know what it’s going to sound like. Specifications are virtually meaningless in audio , you simply have to listen. Same goes for cables, you simply have to try different cables in each part of your system that provides the most detail and best sonic improvement in that part of the chain of your system. There is no best or perfect cables for every system only the best that sound right in your system.
Very true !
Thank You, you has change my mind.
In regular length audio interconnects and speaker cables, inductance, capacitance and resistance are not factors.
@@amazoidal not true
Watch "The British Audiophile" on cables. How much resistance does a 10ft cable have? There are charts on this. Imperceptible difference. The frequency of audio is just too low. You have been listening to Bill Low for too long. Listen to Gene Dellasala instead.
For me the problem is in words "when listening it makes difference" . I am convinced it should . Every cable has unique length, resistance of core, resistance of connection , capacity, inductance and it's own "skin effect" level. Playing with those values we achieve hundreds of combinations which impact our driving amplifier characteristic and speaker timbre which unfortunately is also unique. Hardest is to recognize if difference is achievement up or down. I am afraid that factory brand and price paid may play decisive role to answer which is better. My best sounding speaker cable was the one regained from old iron power supply - made of tiny bronze spirals winded around cotton strips. Standard in mobile house power 1950ties due to fire resistance and flexibility. No other kind found in electrical shops those days before audio :). I suspect today it is really hard to do same again. Today I do my interconnections DIY bearing in mind factors playing role like capacity shielding and length and I may say that such cables are far behind other my more serious considerations. On other hand I understand all those who try to make upgrade in situation when only cables are allowed to be played with without risk of serious damage.
I actually have one of those cables I think made from the power cord of old rice cookers. Sounds pretty good actually. My friend has made countless DIY cables and he has very good result with many of them.
You are walking on shards of glass but you did a good job. Cables bring out strong opinions in audiophiles.
You are lucky to have nice friends. I made some ic with silver wires and was very interested to hear the difference in sonic qualities. Gave them to two friends and was hoping for some feedback, whether good or bad didn't matter, I just wanted some info on what they heard. The first friend just said the cables are not as good as his branded ones and that was all. The second one threw them into the bin because it's a diy job and he only uses branded stuff.
Ah, we try anything, regardless of price or look. For us, it's the synergy we are looking for. More expensive does not mean it's the most synergistic cable.
What do u think of tellurium q speaker cables? I have the blue entry levels. Thinking of getting the silvers. Is it worth the investment?
Never tried them. Problem is silver is that the ones I have tried so far leans towards more clarity. Not necessary a good thing if you already have a bright system.
@@ThomasAndStereo yeah im currently running focal aria 926 with a centre cc800 and rel t9. Should i stick to what i have?
I would shy away from Silver actually with the 926. I had the 926 before. It's hard to recommend cable because until you try, you never know. In the stereo world, as I say1+1 does not equal to 2
Hmmm
Ill just go for the ultra blue. Stick to the blue range. Been told so many times blue is most softest and laid back cables.but then again wont know until u try and listen.let ears do the talking.
Regarding your closing question: Confirmation Bias and "Too Invested to Quit" are two aspects I'd say :)
I am going to assume you are talking from experience and not 'I read it on the internet, therefore it must be true' , so fair enough :)
@@ThomasAndStereo Not saying that cables can't make a difference - just saying why some people might not downgrade :)
Hello Thomas i need a new cables for my Yamaha Soavo 1 and my Yamaha A-S801. I don't wont to spend lot's of money. I just need a balanced cable. I think The QED Ryby and the QED XT40 are good options. What do you think?
I never tried QED so I really don't know how it sounds. Sorry.
This is where I get all of my cables nowadays: www.bluejeanscable.com/indexmob.htm
Good vid, I obviously agree cables can make a difference, well at least analog cables. Digital cables such as USB and toslink I've tested out and couldn't hear one bit of difference at all but that's just me.
I think that is the most important, if you tested it and see no difference then that's it. You took the time to do it. Thanks for the comment.
Cables do make a difference and I miss the 1990s when Monster Cable and Ortofon used to give their cables for free in radio contests.
The reason I like to buy cables in the $50 to $200 range is because they are in general better made. The second reason is because they look cool. If you have spent thousands of dollars on your hifi system you really don't mind spending a little on cables even if it's just for looks or ease of mind. ...and those who are buying the super exotic gear just buy the most expensive cable because $3000 does not matter to them, they're rich!
There are "two types of engineers", those looking to scam a sucker, and those looking to prevent a sucker from getting scammed.
There are 'two types of people', those who have just an opinion and those who have actual experience.
@@ThomasAndStereo I love you man, but the voodoo got u.
I was sure it was snake oil I got into this before there was any debate and I was sure it was BS. So I used my cheap monster cables for years. I upgraded my power amp years latter and thought I want nice looking cables also so I went shopping and said dam to spendy so I decided to build a pair. I bought high end connectors all gold platted awesome covers and crimped with a really good crimper and bought mid priced I think 10 or 12 gage speaker wire from one of the do it your self places, And built my cables. They are beautiful. I plugged them in and fired up my system and wow it sounded like shit. I was sure I had them reversed or a short or something. Polarity was fine I got my meter out checked continuity no shorts all was well, played with them and tried to find fault nothing, they were built right. I rebuilt the monster cables with the new connects that I had used for years and they sounded great. "HERE IS THE RUB" The reason people don't want to here this. I spent a lot of money on my system Amp, speakers, preamp,sorce etc I don't want to spend a $1000 on fu@king cables and I don't think others want to either. Now if you make a video on what to use to build my own really decent cables or a buyers guide range of prebuilt cables say from $150 to say $350 cables that is one video I would love to watch.
The intend of the video is really to encourage people to have an open mind about it. I always buy used so I end up paying $150 to $300 a pair and their mrsp price are usually $800 to $1k. I really don't like spending on cables even though I believe in them because they give the least return for the money. It's hard to tell people what cables to spend on as it all depends on system synergy.
Having said all that, a big thank you for sharing your experience and hopefully it will encourage others to have an open mind about it.
Building cables is a difficult and specialised thing; not for DIY.
You don't built your own watch, now do you ?
Of course cables make a difference but, they are the last thing you should worry about. First, you should get good speakers, then an amp that mates well with the Speakers. 2nd, get a good source. Last, get some cables that you feel work in the system (without spending too much). Cables will not radically change anything. If you want better sound, you need to upgrade your speakers or amplifier. This is what I found by experience.
Hi Thomas My system currently. Emotiva mono block amps and pre. Tube phono stage and that Marantz tt you showed before. Last month I wanted to add fun so I purchased a couple of receivers from 1977. A Kenwood 8010 and a Pioneer 980. When using the receivers as preamps I lost quite a bit of resolution on my lps. My speakers are $850 focal two ways on stands or Monitor Audio Silver Tens $2500. I am waiting for a McIntosh 275 in the mail. When that's paid off I will get a tube pre by McIntosh. I really like the big JBL speakers that Kendrick Sound shows in their videos. Have you watched any Kendrick videos? Any friends have Kendrick ?
I have never watched any Kendrick videos and never heard any JBL. My friends have experienced with them and some models are great. There are times I am tempted to get those that are blue infront but they are quite big. One day I will try JBL. How do you like that Marantz TT15? I broke my catridge and have been traumatized since then and never touched a turntable :(
Do electrons travel faster through expensive cables or something. I really don't get this cable thing.
Of course! The more money you spend, the faster they travel. If you spend over $100k, they even go faster than the speed of light.
DIY is the best way to achieve higher performance with cables.
This is why I love active Speakers.. I dont have to worry about speaker cables :D
Internal wiring can be shoddy🙄
The reason pepole eventually discover cables can make a difference , is because on a revealing system it can be very obvious. I get tired of people saying a cable can be measured, well so can an amplifier and if all an amp dose is amplify the volume of a sign wave then all amps sound the same if the specs are the same ?
Science is flawed. Belive me it is imperfect. Cables can affect so many aspects, that can impact the signal.
I am 53 years old and have lashed togather a lot of components with a lot of different cables of all architecture.
Copper, silver, silver plated copper, tinted copper , in Teflon , PVC and dielectric foam . Stranded, solid core. And let's forget about conectors.
And what I can tell you is ,no cable will revioce your whole system, but the right cables bring out the voice of a carefully matched system. Cables are the last purchase after everything else , they are the the last purchase.
If you buy your stereo components at Best buy then high end cables don't make much sense , keep the whole of the system in perspective. Spend 3x what you can afford on the best speakers and build your system up the chain to the source, then think cables. The speakers will dictate your amp and from there move to the source, if it all jives then accentuate with the right cables.
Jeff Harper well said Jeff. It is frustrating to read so many of these articles or video post against the cables making a difference. It surprises me how few true audiophiles help in debating this subject and help those wanting to get the best sound in their systems to understand that these theory’s by those who simply are spatting so called technical jargon is not the definitive truth. We need to help those understand to try cables themselves and don’t let someone convince you it’s all BS. Yes we will not convince many electrical engineers they simply have it in there heads that the electrical measurements determine what everyone will hear. But it’s those who are simply trying to get the best sound from their systems to try cables and let the sound and their ears make be the judge.
I use Cat7 or Cat8 ethernet cables as loudspeaker cables. They must be made of very pure copper, I am sure. They are all double shielded, what I consider very important for a speaker cable. Ethernet cables have 8 lines, I twist and braid together all of them after removing the insulation and use the whole cable for a single pole connection (four cables for stereo). I found those better which has a single core by line vs the multicore ones. Basically, the cable for one set cost me roughly as much as a set of good quality banana plugs. What about sound quality? They are unbeatable in my view as speaker cables. I try to find something that is better, but I did not find it so far.
Many people don't believe there is a difference in cables but those people have usually not tried. I did blind listening tests with non-audiophile friends and they correctly picked the differences every time. No amount of theoretical explanation counts, just do the experiment before you make up your mind. The only way to not hear a difference is if you have a very unrevealing system or bad hearing.
Then I’d like to hear your explanation as to why they measure exactly the same?
Hi, I do agree with you, cables do make a difference? But I have a question for you? Many Critics use EQ and cheap cables., what is your opinion about Equalzer? I do use it to some degree in Gadgets, and home theatre, but not on CD stereo.
I don't use equalizer but I am pro-equalizer because for me, at the end of the day, I use whatever I have to achieve the sound I like. I don't care for accuracy, phase shift and so forth. Just that it sounds good to me. I will use tone control if I have it so all for it.
To me the difference that cables make in sound is not up to their price,but up to their material,gauge,lenght,connectors.I have tried expensive Atlas cable versus a cable one third of its price and i liked the cheap ones.I've had situations that i liked expensive QED cables as well.If you are planning to buy an expensive cable you better have a return option with them,because you might not like their sound at all.
Yup, i buy them used so I can resell if I don't like them.
Hi Thomas. What you said makes a lot of sense. In my experience...cables do make a difference. However, not in ways that one might think. Usually the differences are between subtle and easily noticeable...not night and day. Anyone who claims that differences can be jaw dropping, mind boggling or life changing...is exaggerating.
Thanks again for the video. Great stuff.
BTW...have you come across any budget (
Thanks Andy for your comment. Out of all the DIY cables I have tried, none are dark. However, I sent an email to my friend who builds them and will let you know if I find anything. The only dark cable I had were the older transparent musiclink interconnects & speaker cables. Here is a link to them when I put my ad up forsale. www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649359312-pair-transparent-music-link-speaker-cable/
I also have a pair Can Den Hul Integration Hybrid I used to tame bright speakers. Also the YBA diamond speaker cable. Finally, eichmann express six series 2.
Thanks Thomas. Decent quality bulk cables coupled with nice connectors...I find the way to go most of time. Even buying budget "branded" factory terminated cables can prove to be quite expensive in the long run. For the past year....seeking PC or IC that will give me more of a rounded top end and overall a more romantic sound signature (thicker vocals and bigger instrument size). I have realized also that in order to achieve those attributes....I will most probably have to give up some air and image focus.
I totally agree
I had my speakers hooked up with zip cord electric cables and believed cables didn’t matter.
A friend brought over a set of nice cables and we hooked them up on my equipment. I heard a definitive improvement. I went out, bought some nice intermediate speaker cables, interconnects for my turntable and a good one for my subwoofer. I am very happy with the improvement in my setup.
Everyone is free to believe whatever they want but I would suggest you give good cables a try. You never know, you may change your mind like I did.
Thanks for sharing. Hopefully you comment will open some viewers mind into trying better cables.
audiophiles don't need subwoofers,no well recorded music was recorded with bass down as low as 20hz,your problem was the zip cord you used was to thin in guage,and probably too long.
placebo effect. The physics is unyielding; copper has a fixed resisttivity, the only way to improve the sound is to use short cables and a generous cross-sectinal area
So, I am like your person #3 example. I bought all Audioquest cables in the Red colour jacket without the 72 volt battery, except for my dual subwoofer trigger line with is green. The stock male to male mono phono line was too long anyways as tidiness justification. Astetic s was the biggest reason. I even bi-wired my my speakers with Rocket 33s modified with sixteen WBT expanding banana plugs for harder bite at the Jack's. I do crave the Nordost Frey 2 (purple) and prefer the sound of Cardas Parsec speaker cables, but, don't like the plugs of Nodost speaker cables, and don't like the color of the Parsec (navy blue). I'm considering upgrading the speaker cables first, but, maybe Kimber for those since I am very sold on the plug bite over purple color. Stereo is art to me, as to balance a combination of sight and sound.
What can and does illustrate the power and difference of cables, is a revealing system. I.g. Performance tires shine on a performer car.
Mains cables, no difference. Interconnects made with ordinary wire, no difference. Interconnects made with other stuff, worse. Speaker wire just needs to be low resistance and made with ordinary profile cable, no woven shit.
I have read/watched videos of people that claim that power mains also make a difference. Any experience?
Perhaps everything makes a difference and it all is subjective to the listener.
I don’t have the budget for a truly audiophile system but I have the Kef LSX (smaller room) and am going to buy a subwoofer and am purchasing a subwoofer cable. I chose the Audioquest Boxer. It has the quality and the grounding feature. So at least a more expensive cable could help with any possible humming or hissing.
Power cables do make difference. But they only make difference when the power section of power amp is not designed good enough.
Usb and other digital cables do make difference according to different kinds of them. Some provides good shielding, some rejects some frequencies, some offer galvanic isolation. There are measurable difference in digital cables. And sometimes audible.
It's the cheap brass/iron/nickel connector that most signal loss occurs (Yes that shiny connect is fake as hell with a sugar coated gold finish/nickel finish, tellurium copper connectors are the way to go.). Follow the IACS standard for conductivity.
There is a significance difference between cables...capacitance, resistivity and inductance.
Not that the differences matter, except with speaker cable and then it's only resistance that really matters.
I can tell the difference in power cords and power conditioners. Upgraded cables I didnt hear the difference, but still I enjoy the quality construction and looks of reasonably priced cables such as some of the Audio Quests, Cullen, and A Better Cable. So on occasion I will go up to a few hundred.
For me its very simple: do I hear a difference? If yes is, and it is an improvement and the price is right for the improvement then I buy it. I think the snake oil is in the prices of some cables. Those people who don’t believe in sound differences of speaker cables and interconnects
Just a lot of people say you're wrong doesn't mean you're wrong. Appreciate your honesty. 👍👍👍
Yes. Cables absolutely make a difference. For example, when I tried listening to my system with NO cables it sounded like shit. But the moment I added cables it sounded great.
Yup, I am not a big fan of the 'NO cable' cable brand myself, 'Yes cable' cables are however fantastic. Happy new year.
@@ThomasAndStereo But that is literally the only time cables make a difference. Always make sure you have cables.
@@Wizardofgosz I did make another video on cables, 'ultra high-end cables' where I share more my experience.
😅😂 I agree 100% with you Richard
😂 these audiofools that spend thousands of dollars are ridiculous
For me personally I stay in the $40-$60 range when it comes to cables. Lower I feel they are too cheaply made and higher it’s just snake oil.
Thomas,I need help.I find this cable thing really confusing.I'm putting together a budget system you could say.So far it consists of Kef q950's,Cambridge audio cxa80.I will be building my own subs,yes subs using dayton ultimax 15's.Anways I'm looking for advice on some decent speaker cables and interconnects as you can see by the level of products I'm purchasing.I can't spend a fortune but want something that's good.
Would you be able to help me with this.
Thanks
For me, cable is the hardest part to recommend. There is no best cable but rather the right cable. It's all a question of synergestic matching. If I look at your KEF+CXA80, I am going to guess that combo is bright sounding. If it is, then I would look for a 'warm' sounding cable to match it. Unfortunately, I am guess here and don't have experience with your actual gear. If my guess is correct, at least you can have a direction when asking advice on the from what cable to get. Usually I tell people not to worry too much about cables. Only spend money on it at the end, it really has the least impact in a system and many times, there is no difference.
Thanks this answer does actually give me something to follow.I was just stressing out a bit on what to purchase lol.
@@ThomasAndStereo No cables lol.just using Plex and flac files.one interconnect to sub and speaker cables.
It's coming along.The sub I built sounds good.If you would like a pic let me know.
Well that's like saying if you have a amp with bass and treble you cant change sound because its been recorded a certain way I use to think cables didn't make a difference until I tried a bunch of them and let me tell you they do make a difference Its only small your just making like more bass or more treble or more bright or warm its bit like playing with tone controls
True, for me it's a little more than that what the cables do but you got it correct overall. One day I will make a follow up video on it.
As a rule of thumb it seems that 5% to 10% of a stereo's value is well spent on good matching cables. I agree with some of the viewers that the returns on what more expensive cables deliver in sound quality will yield diminishing returns the more you invest. However, cables that cost over a thousand dollars are best paired with a system in the tens of thousands of dollars per component.
Although I believe in cables, I think it's mark up is a bit too much. So that is why I am the least excited with cables. It's one of those things where I have to spent because I hear the difference but I really don't like to. Recently I came across a cheap DIY cable that I prefered over the expensive cables I have which I will do a video someday. Thanks for all your comments btw.
Thomas, I agree with you! Ultra high end cables are just way too expensive! This is what motivated me to create special devices that are much more superior! 2 patent pending technologies, cost to produce each device is $20 vs a $50,000 cable!
Dear Thomas. If you use only you hearing (ears + brains), you will use a very unreliable instrument. Your hearing is very easily influenced. The way you feel that day (tired, sad etc. )makes more of a difference than the cable.
It’s not that cables make it better it’s the fact they can effect change in the information traveling through them. Capacitance, resistance, skin effect etc. Find a set that the change made is agreeable with you. Until then just use 12 gauge speaker wire and some fairly decent rca cables. More money does not equal better sound.
More money does not equal to better sound. It's all about synergy with your current setup. Recently I came across a DIY interconnect made by someone and it cost $175, I did an AB test against a $3k interconnect and prefered the DIY. It was however paired with a bright speaker and in that case, it works. Having said that, the speaker cable I ended up keeping, the Yter , (which they use in ther sonus faber internal speaker wiring) happens to be the most expensive.
Once the cables are burned in, and set for the proper direction, you ruin the burn in by moving them. The new cables have to burn in, so by that time, you have forgotten what the old cables sounded like. Since burn in is a real thing, and is upset by any movement, it is impossible to A/B cables.🤣
Have you tried any cables/interconnects made from pure silver?
I don't know if they are pure silver but I tried a few, Audio sensibility, Siltech and a few others, maybe 6 or 7 different interconnects. For speaker cables, maybe only 3 or 4.
@@ThomasAndStereo Did they a sensible, that is, clear and effortlessly audible difference?
@@venturarodriguezvallejo1567 As long as your system has enough resolution, then yes. Its fairly easy to the difference between silver and copper. That said, you still have to be careful. Just because you can hear a difference, doesn't always mean its a change for the better.
It makes sense to get a decent set of cables over cheap cables but I don't think cables will make or break a system. Different cables sound slightly different so can help fine tune a system. The cable material and gauge makes a difference. I have seen cables that use CDA101 copper which is the purest copper. One brand for a couple of hundred pounds and another set for £000's. If there are using the same same material can there really be a difference in sound? Most component/speaker manufacturers generally use OFC copper cables in their products and not some special cable.
I would even say get the "right" cable for your system. For me it's all about synergy. Recently when doing test with the focal, the best cable that match with my low power integrated amp to the focal 926 was one of the cheaper cable I own. The mid level ones and expensive ones was too bright. How do you find the right cable? Unfortunately, there is no black and white answer except trial and error.
Thomas & Stereo Like you said it's a matter of trial and error. Firstly I would match the speakers to the components so they match tonally, so you get a natural sound, thats clear, detailed and not bright. Then find a cable that's neutral that doesn't add anything to the sound. If the components don't have synergy then cables won't really fix it. The system should be greater than the sum of its parts.
That's a great way to put it, cables are good for fine tuning but you the foundation to be right first.
Very brave lol! Im my experience they do make a massive difference but there is also alot of bs out there no question. The difference for me is akin to a different hi fi component. I find it hard to believe people cant hear it!
Thanks! Agree and I was thinking to make a second video to explore that topic...maybe someday.
I made my own cables with average quality wire and banana plugs. I watched and listened to Pink Floyd the wall blue ray. Parts of it brought tears to my eyes. It's all about the enjoyment you get from your setup not how rich you are.
Think that most cables just change the sound good or bad ,
They can act as tone controls. The very best are almost neutral and allow the components to function as designed.
Answer: YES!
I agree that a 20,000 dollars cable sound better than 20 dollars cable and I respect you opinion but the line between perfection and insanity is very thin and and most people do not realize when they cross that line. If someone is incredibly rich then it doesn't matter because they just look to spend money. My question is does 20,000 dollars cable sound 1000% better than 20 dollars cable, I will take it even if sounds 50% better, also how many people can really notice the difference?
When you are looking at $20k cables, my opinion is that you can't look at it as is it x% better? It's either a 0% or 100% difference for someone willing to pay that kind of crazy money. Meaning, either it's something he loves or don't. I personally think cable gives the less return and one should spend the money elsewhere to give the most return.
Hi thomas, i really appreciate your video's but could could you somehow improve the audio recording
Thanks, this is an old video, I got a real mic now.
Funny thing about cables they all oxidise as some point. I love it especially when someone buys cheap cable un-shielded and then spends money and goes wow it makes a difference! Saying that blind tests show people a different perspective indeedie. Ever seen the wire cables used in amps or speakers they are the cheapest. Great work Thomas as long as people find a happy medium and not spent too much on hype then all good!
Only in cheap speakers or amps they use cheap wire! Not in high-end stuff.
@@paulb.3227 but are you talking about cost of materials or retail prices price ratios are always ignored or mark ups to you and me.😉
Funny the more money I make as I get older the expensive stuff becomes irrelevant as my ears are failing me LOL
In my experience interconect cable & speaker cable make different, now i use taralabs speaker cable & nos diy western electric rca cable, they make sound more liquid, great soundstage, clarity, warm, thick, smooth & reality vocal.
No question in my experience that cables make a significant difference. Many cables can kill the sound, some let it shine through. But, I refuse to pay big money for commercial cables, as I believe a decent set can be produced DIY. Power cables also matter.
You bring out a good point, that if you are willing to go through the hassle of selling then buying used commercial cables is likely a good approach.
they really don't, virtually all copper cables have the same resistivity, all that matters is minimising length and optimizing CSA
@@johnholmes912 Not in my experience. But you can use lamp cord and be happy.
Heck yes do they make a difference.