I have a Rohloff on my 2019 Specialized Kenevo running 200 travel back and front and I’m loving it. I’ve owned the bike just on a year and a half now and in time I went through 3 derailleurs, 3 chains, 1 chainring and 2 hubs. I was getting sick of breaking my bike in the middle of the bush and constantly changing parts. I ride cross country, gravity, parks and a bit of DH and the Rohloff hasn’t missed a beat! The whole system is quiet, chain slap almost non existent and the changes are so much more reliable and consistent. The ground clearance is way better in the rocky stuff and in the mud and dirt it doesn’t pick up all the crap like the old system. I especially love changing gears while stopped or when I get stuck on a hill and have to restart in a lower gear. A simple twist and I’m there. No more lifting a heavy ebike to cycle the cranks. Also changing to the right gear while coasting is also handy. Once you get used to the backing off to gear change the system is so easier to operate. The service provided by Rohloff is second to none. Their communication and help setting up the system has been amazing. Yes the initial cost is higher but for what you get hands down worth it. It is well built, easily maintained and can take anything I throw at it. What more does one want from a product! I’ve recently bought a new bike and the derailleur system feels so fragile in comparison. I will be transferring my Rohloff straight to that bike as soon as I can!
I totally agree with everything you said. I've had my Levo for a year as well. I've changed 3 chains and one chainring. My biggest cog when the chain is on it is making noise now. Probably needs a new cassette now. My Turner has had a Rohloff on it since 2005. I rarely had to change chains, I've never broken anything on it either. About every 4 or 5 years it needs new seals, and an annual oil change. If you use a wax based lubricant and get jockey wheels with ceramic bearings it is so easy maintaining.
I just busted the FOURTH derailleur on my Specialized Levo. One of the guys at our local bike shop mentioned considering switching to an "internal gear hub" and found this video. Really good stuff hopefully this tech makes its way mainstream and derailleurs become a thing of the past. I do not care about extra weight it's all about durability.
Overall weight is around 800gms... nearly 1kg (depending on the groupset being used originally). With an eBike, I find the weight not to be even a consideration... even a normal analog mtb I find the ability to "just enjoy the ride" far outways the worry of a derailleur drivetrain. With the Rohloff you just change the oil once a year, no tuning of gears, no noisy gear changes, nothing more - just ride.
Derailleurs on eMtbs take a real beating... noisy impact gear changes, excessive wear to chains and rings. The extra power from the electric motor (70-100Nm torque) does cause wear and damage at a much higher rate than you would hope or expect on your eMtb (eBike). I converted my new 2019 Specialized Turbo Levo eMtb from a derailleur drivetrain to an A12 Thru-axle Rohloff Speedhub (geared hub), and what started out as a personal project simply to make my bike much more enjoyable to ride (and minimise repairs and maintenance), I also found an unexpected amount of interest to do the same conversion from other eBikers who are having serious derailleur issues and breakages. The immediate interest was unexpected, the reasons why were not. Very happy with my new Specialized Levo-Rohloff eBike!
Hey Paul, pretty sweeeeeeeet setup. I have heard people (commuter enthusiasts) talk glowingly about Rohloff in the past but only recently taken the time to check out the system. Love this conversion - I have the 2018 Giant E-Pro and will be measuring up when the incumbent drive train gives out.
Interesting idea ;) Nikolai made some excellent work to integrate the Rohloff Speedhub. They solve the problem with shifting and also use a gates carbon belt. You may want to have a look at their G1 EBOXX E14.
lll Yes, Nicolai have their EBOXX with a Rohloff Speedhub and with Rohloff’s E14 electronic shifting (only available for the Bosch motors). My purchase decision for an eMtb back in March 2019 was between the Nicolai EBOXX E14 and the Specialized Levo. In the end I went with the Levo as firstly I could test ride one and more importantly... it’s a lighter and more nimbler bike, which suited me best. The Nicolai EBOXX E14 is an innovative design and an engineering masterpiece.
Excellent video, very thought provoking as merely adding electric motors to MTB's inevitably means that the drivetrain wears out faster. Integrating a hub gearbox and ultimately belt drive removes the most vulnerable components from the bike which has to be progress. However I appreciate that the upfront costs will be significant.
Very nice, question how did you solve the magnet issue? Can you send some pictures how that you did the cable routing also. Riding for year Rohloff and a big fan.
You can drill a 10mm hole or now you can buy a newly designed "speed sensor bracket" from Rohloff that clips onto their Rohloff Rotor. Can send some images of the cabling, what is your email address?
Have you though about a belt drive system with this? Chain wear and stretch is a big problem on ebikes and ive been looking into a belt drive. The problem is keeping the belt tight under suspension travel. Think ill be going to the rohloff asap on my cube stereo.
Mentioned the same earlier today... "You cannot fit a Gates belt on a full suspension mtb unless you had a custom and well-engineered tensioner (belt tension is critical on a belt drive)." And you must have a break (split joiner) in the rear of the frame to feed the belt into as a belt has no joining link.
Familymoir-Google Account Veers actually do a low tension splitable belt something like this would easily work on a mtb and often is, the problem is finding a belt tensioner (like the chain version in the video) thats designed to accommodate suspension chain growth.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount these guys seem to have somthing working. Not electric though. th-cam.com/video/CmwChTaSx9M/w-d-xo.html Also I didn't think you required a split joiner on a full suspension. You just have to have a suspension that allows disasembly. I thought most do with the right tools?
I cannot believe that rohloffs aren't more popular. I put mine on XC hardtail and it's amazing. No fuss with the derailleurs, it just works. I was thinking on putting it on a regular full suspension trail bike, anyone knows a decent frame with 135mm QR on the rear?
Dear Familymoir, I own a S works Turbo Levo. I have Roval carbon wheels on it. I had the bike equipped with SRAM AXS. Within a year the drive turns out to be worn, afterwards you hear and read that it occurs more often than average with an ebike. I was told that the original Roval carbon wheels are not suitable for the Rohloff hub. Do you know more about this? Sincerely Clyde
Sorry for the delayed reply, I don’t know why I don’t receive a notification? You could use the Roval carbons... but I even changed out the alloy Rovals as they are not a good strong rim. In saying that, the bigger issue is the rim needs to be a 32 or 36 hole rim.
Excellent argument for Rohloff.... I think it's agreed that the derailleur system has taken cycling just about as far as it can and we've been waiting for the new 'pretender to the gearing throne' for a while now....whether or not it is to be the Rohloff I couldn't say but you have to admit that its a fine system.... I kinda feel that if they could sort the 'gear change under tension' conundrum, Rohloff would have a real challenger to the throne! Enjoyed your vid v much. Cheers Shakkers 🇬🇧
To properly shift a derailleur shifting system is the same as a Rohloff. Unweight the pedals a little until you shift. You will never break a chain during shifts that way. I've been running a Rohloff on a Turner XCE since 2005. Best ever idea in bicycling since multi gears.
@@mtbkmaniac1 yours is a very welcome comment based, as it is, on 15 years actual user experience.... Unfortunately tho, (as the lack of acceptance of the Rohloff product has shown thus far, despite its superiority to derailleur) for any new gearing system to succeed I reckon it's gonna have to come from the likes of a massive manufacturer like Sram or Shimano to stand any chance of acceptance at all .... Bit of a bugger really isn't it.....
@@leno4920 the complexity of the system with 2 cables requiring someone who is able to properly install them is one thing against. The 2nd is the drag in some gears more than others. Shimano's Alfine system 8 speed is pretty good. I have that on my wife's Electra, but it's only 8. I have saved so much money not replacing cassettes about 2 years max. I used to go through Shimano 9speed chains every 3 months, then a middle or granny every 3 or so chains due to chainsuck. With Rohloff , I am able to reverse the rear cog and the front chainring for double life. I also only run single speed chains. They are under $20. I think I change chains every 6 or 8 months now which is determined by measuring with the Rohloff chain checker. People dont see the long term value. Perhaps its because we change bikes more often now. So do the systems. It's hard to keep up since Rohloff has its axle diameter limit and now the custom attachment system. With all that said, I want one for my Levo regardless of the high initial cost.
I like the idea but, your video is lacking some much-needed info. 1. gear ratio comparison 2. cost 3. spoke pattern and dia, will this be durable enough for guys that are jumping...more extreme abuse. 4. is a twist shifter the only option. 5. is this designed with the emtb abuse in mind, meaning would that void any warranty...etc. 6.weight difference.
Dave, all good questions which I have answered below. The video was more designed as a story to overview on what I had done on this particular eMtb... not intended as a sales tool. In saying that, there have been many enquires and much interest in the video (it is on Vimeo too). Our website at the end of the video www.rohloff-au.com explains much much more. 1. Rohloff has a 526% gear range (broader than 27, 12 or 11 speed mtb gearing), then you can adjust the rear sprocket from 15-21 tooth to suit your most demanding climbing or touring needs. 2. Cost for a Speedhub kit varies from A$1700-2000, plus rotor, tensioner and torque restraint options if required... that all depends on the bike and frame design. So without knowing what bike you have, probably around $1900-$2300. 3. The Rohloff websites have more detail, but the Rohloff wheel is much stronger than a normal hub wheel build due to the larger diameter symmetrical flanges. Spokes are laced in a 2-cross pattern and are typically 2.0/1.8 DD Sapim or DT Swiss with specific head detail requirements. Yes, very strong and can handle jumping and downhill abuse no problem. 4. Twist shift is standard, there is a third party option for a trigger shift (see more comments on this answered earlier below). 5. 70% of Rohloffs are fitted to eBikes worldwide. No warranty is voided - this is a very strong, very reliable and very rugged internal gearhub (proven reliability since 1986). Again, it depends on the bike and electric motor (currently motor torques up to 100Nm are no problem). 6. Weight: as mentioned in the video, my setup added 1.5kg with the Rohloff Speedhub and my new rims, front hub and tyres. Rims, front hub and tyres don’t need to be changed as I did, the Rohloff itself is an extra 0.8kg... as compared to the derailleur components. Hope that answers most of questions. You can see more at www.rohloff-au.com and facebook.com/rohloffaustralia, or email me at paul@familymoir.com.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount would you recommend the electronic shifter, this was a 12 speed was then next one 16 speed? lovely idea, glad you made this video.
Larry, all Rohloff Speedhubs are 14 speed (14 gears equally spaced with a 526% range.. most derailleur options are a little less on range 490-515%). Currently Rohloff’s electronic shifting option is only compatible and available with specific Bosch emotors... like the CX Performance line. For mtbing, I believe the mechanical shifter is the better option at this time as you can shift multiple gears (say 5-6 gears at once) quicker than electronic shifting.
Familymoir-Google Account thank u might consider this option for my older 2017 Turbo Levo which I call my Frankenstein eMTB, I really like the setup, how does the mechanical shifter shift? Is it going through a thru axle?
Larry, look at the video at 3:45... explains the gear shifting which is done with spring loaded pawls which are located on the main axle with an external shaft which is then rotated back and forth via a cable box to the handle bar twist shifter.
Great information. I have an AZUB TRIcon recumbent tricycle with a Bafang e-assist motor and battery. Shifting is handled at the rear with a Shimano Deore trigger/thumb lever and derailleur (10 speed). Thinking to converting to a Rohloff hub. Distance between chain stays is 5.375 inches (13.65 cm). Would that work with a Rohloff hub? Also cabling to rear dereailleur runs thru the handles bars and cables. I know the Rohloff uses two cables, so I don't think that would work with my current cable routing situation. So, now I am think electronic shifting? Would that work with the Bafang system? Can you direct me to more information? Please advise. Thank you.
David, the electronic shifting is currently only available with the latest Bosch emotors. A cabled Rohloff should not be a problem - I've seen a number recumbents with Rohloffs and it all works very well... although without seeing the bike and components, I couldn't guarantee the cabling will work internally as it does now through the bars? Where do you live (country) - I can then direct you to the best contact to gather more information. Cheers Paul.
I have a rohloff and have put it in several bikes can you make a video on the adapter you made to make it fit. I would really like to put put this in my v10
straight2curveus, when you say a V10... do you mean a Santa Cruz V10? If so, depending on what Rohloff Speedhub you have now, you should be able to fit it to your SC V10 (but I’m not sure if your V10 is a 135mm OLD or a 148mm OLD and if it’s a 12mm thru-axle?... distance between dropouts). If it’s a 12mm thru-axle you would need a new gear unit internal or a new A12 Speedhub, as the axles are completely different in design. Send me some detail and photos on what Rohloff you have now and.your V10 and I can at least advise if it’s possible or not to fit your existing Speedhub (email me on paul@familymoir.com).
Did you have to modify anything for the fitting, and are you running 27,5 in the back and 29 in the front? I love Rohloff.. your a trail rider.. ask a jumper to test your bike to see if the weight of the Hub makes a difference.. I dont think it will.. but a very nice job and well done... ride on
The only “modification” was the left side (disc brake side) dropout inside mating surface which needed to be faced flat so the Rohloff axle plate sat square and perpendicular to the axle. The standard wheels are 29er back and front, right now I’m running Maxxis Minion DHF-WT 29x2.5 both front and back. Haven’t done any big jumps, but with 1-2m of air on jumps, double jumps/table tops and dropoffs all seem very balanced - rear shock was increased 10-15 psi and rebound just one click... for me it seems better than before (but may have just tuned the rear better). There’s a 4kg 700watt battery upfront in the downtube, so the 0.8kg additional weight of the Rohloff on the rear has had negligible handling impact that I have felt.
good video, wondering when the belt drive conversion is coming, its been 3 years we should have seen that by now. (and maybe an option to a normal shifter and not the old school grip-shifter too)
A Gates belt drive has been available on a Rohloff 10 years... but you cannot use a belt-drive on a full suspension bike, unless it has a "custom engineered belt tensioner" for the specific frame. Nicolai have one on their EBOXX Rohloff model already, but again it is a custom engineered tensioner for that bike, that frame and that model. Gates belt tension is critical that is is maintained at a constant tension - an off the shelf tensioner will not work. If you have a hardtail, you can fit one (if the frame has a split to feed the belt through). A "normal shifter", you mean a "trigger shift" is available as a third party component... but most prefer the normal "grip shifter'". Some like myself preferred the normal "grip shifter" on non-Rohloff bikes... on derailleur drive train bikes, and still do. That's simply a personal choice.
HI Paul, I have 2 X Rohloff equipped bikes already so know and love the hubs, I am hoping for an e-mtb in the future and would love it to be fitted with a Rohloff and try the new e-shifting, but also love to try belt drive. Are there belt drive kits available that will work with a Rohloff set-up on a full suspension e-mtb? Cheers, Mick.
Belt Drives: you need a break in the frame to fit the belt which has no joiner, and unless you have a specially designed and engineered tensioner, in general the belt will not work on a full suspension mtb (Google a Nicolai EBOXX to see an example, but you cannot use an off the shelf tensioner). eShifting: can only be fitted to the latest Bosch and Panasonic motors. Secondly, if you’re a reasonable of serious mtber, the manual twist shifter is much quicker and more useable than the current E14 electronic shifting. Existing Speedhubs: you can use your existing Rohloff Speedhub on an eMtb, as long as it is the same axle/OLD arrangement. That is a 10mm quick release axle or 10mm threaded axle… 135mm OLD. If it is the more common these days 12mm thru-axle, the internal gear unit is different. Basically you cannot use your current Speedhubs in a 12mm thru axle setup. Sorry, none of that is good news or what you probably would have liked to hear.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount Thanks Paul, yes I have seen the Nicolai. on a full system MTB I thought it would be easy to split a pivot point to get the belt on but was not sure if there was a generic/specific? tensioner to allow for suspension travel and how it might be fitted to a frame not designed to accomodate it.
@@mickorance3029 you cannot buy an “off the shelf” (retail purchase) tensioner. You need to have a tensioner design specific to your bike, your frame. Gates belt tension is critical and the tensioner must apply even (consistent) tension force throughout the travel range of the rear swingarm. And this must be a specified tension force… not just any tension amount.
Is there a specific assembly kit for the levo dropouts or the pieces are stock and available to purchase from a Rolhoff store? I'm really interested in converting my transmission is possible to have more information? Thanks in advance.
Nicola, send me your email address to (paul@familymoir.com) and I will email you a pdf document on how this works and what the process is. There is no kit, there is no standard product for this conversion you can simply buy from Rohloff. The Speedhub itself is easy to purchase, but that is a measurement process you need to do first. It is not overly complicated, but there are some steps you need to follow and there is some customisation required - dependent on the bike. Also if you have not seen the follow-up video to this one, you can find it at th-cam.com/video/Zuhcd2-a7z8/w-d-xo.html
Helpful vid for me in trying to make a decision. I am wondering though if a person is using their ebike 90% of the time for road use the derailleur would hold up much better. In which case it could be a more economical option
Road use will definitely hold up better than offroad... mountain biking. Although the Rohloff's main customer base has always been long distance touring cyclists and commuters - simply for longevity, reliability and long-term cost of ownership. Fit and forget.
No plans Tony... I'm the Rohloff distributor for Australia, but see no real need to be honest. I did this as a personal project and love the hassle free drivetrain for an eMtb. Now have 5,500kms and changed one drive train at 4000kms.
Sorry... just seen this comment. All up it is around US$2000-2500, depending if you need a new rim or other parts specific to your bike. Needs to be a 32 or 36 hole rim, the Speedhub is the hub and the brakes don't change.
I wonder if the Rollof can handle the torque from the newer Bafang M620 putting out 160 nm of torque? Also, does it interface with the Bafang controller?
Yes it can, I fitted one to this bike/motor… the Bafang 620, installed with the alloy drive pins to take the higher torque. No, it does not talk with the Bafang controller or any other system… it is simply another drive option with a twist shifter to select gears. I say simply, but it will outlast a derailleur 10x with 160Nm torque.
Depends what you mean by a “regular shift”, I assume you mean a trigger shift which you can use a variety of third party trigger shifts. For others their regular shift is a twist shifter... I’ve used SRAM grip shifts (twist shifters) since 2005. Personal choice, but both are possible with the Rohloff.
I want to put a rohloff on my fat ebike. Bafang. It has a shift sensor that detects cable movement. I wonder if this will work to shut motor down as a safety against damaging the rohloff?
I use no additional system to protect the Rohloff. I use the standard Rohloff manual twist shifter and like any Rohloff, you don't change under pedalling load - so simply back off before changing which can be done in a fraction of a second. Not sure how the Bafang works... if the motor runs on then it will make it difficult/unable to change gears. Very difficult to damage the Rohloff unless you exceed the maximum power it is designed for - and with the current eBikes on the market that is not an issue.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount Well, I have a newer motor. The bafang Ultra. My bike has both throttle and torque sensor. It's also has brake cut off, and shift sensing. The shift sensor works well at cutting the motor power when going down the gears but sometimes gives me a loud "clunk" when the derailleur attempts to move the chain up the sprocket. This usually happens when I try to shift through multiple gears at once. I think this is due to the amount of time it takes for the derailleur to complete this action when going up hill as compared to going down when the motor attempt to re-engage. From my understanding, the shift sensor only momentarily delays motor power to give the shift time to complete. Since the rohloff is fast shifting maybe this wont be a problem. I was just hoping the shift sensor and cutting in motor power was fast enough to act prior to the rohloff doing its job. From what I heard, rohloff's are very fast and indexing occurs in the hub itself, not the shifter. The push pull of the twist shifter is direct linked to the change in gears as compared to a derailleur during gear selection.
Raynell, not quite sure if you had a specific question, but I can confirm you can shift a Rohloff very quickly... much much faster than a derailleur. 10 gears (or as many as you can twist in one turn) in a second or less. And yes, indexing is done within the Speedhub itself, not the shifter.
Is it not possible for a electronic shifter that can auto drop power for that milli sec while shifting. I can’t see a twist shift being very favoured by too many people?
Mark, you can change to a trigger shift which some do (it’s a third party option), but it doesn’t allow to shift 8-10-12 gears all at once like a twist shift does which is great when you want to dump a heap of gears quickly. Rohloff electronic shifting came out a couple of years back but is only currently available for an integrated Bosch CX motor system... and yes it cuts the motor for a fraction of a second as it changes. Hopefully they will have the retrofit available soon.... no more cables for me would be the best advantage.
I guess there is... if you were in Australia we could certainly supply a bike just like this. You cannot fit a Gates belt on a full suspension mtb unless you had a custom and well-engineered tensioner (belt tension is critical on a belt drive).
Sorry for the delayed reply, I don’t know why I don’t receive a notification? Have 5000kms now, changed the drivetrain out at 4000kms. The Rohloff itself is perfect... that will never wear out. vimeo.com/387041805
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount I got a Levo with Shimano SLX. The two tallest gears began skipping at 200 MILES!!! This looks like a difficult conversion though...requiring special brackets to be fabbed and surfaces to be machined.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount I want to use mine with my boost frame. My Rohloff is an older model with a torque arm. Used for standard 135x10mm spacing. Probably can buy that separately. Thanks for the info Mr. Paul, more safe rides!
@@ersonvelasco2531 you cannot use your old 135mm/10mm Rohloff Speedhub unfortunately. The A12 (12mm thru-axle boost) is a completely different internal axle which cannot be swapped out.
No you cannot use a belt drive on a full suspension bike… you need a custom designed and engineered tensioner for each specific frame. Belt tension is critical - that is why you only see it on a couple of full suspension bikes worldwide which have a custom designed tensioner for that bike.
straight2curveus, Rohloff do sell and manufacture a Speedhub model for modern 12mm thru-axle frames - it’s called an A12 Speedhub (it is very popular). This is basically an adaptor kit, not a true thru-axle... this is what I am using on my Specialized Levo. You first need to go through an adaption/measurement process to provide data back to Rohloff to manufacture an adaptor kit and A12 Speedhub to fit each specific frame. I made this document to explain this process... vimeo.com/346199290 (email me on paul@familymoir.com if you would like the easier to read PDF doc?)
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount I have a skewer quick release axle disk rohloff. I thought you made a adapter? I remember looking into it and not being able to convert my existing rohloff to work with a thru axle frame.
straight2curveus, ok - no. There is no adaptor to convert a qr Speedhub to a 12mm thru-axle Speedhub... the internal axle is a new design. You can swap out the complete internal gear unit but that’s an expensive option A$700-800, then you would order the dropout adaptors to suit your frame (probably another $100). Still half the price of a new A12 Speedhub, but an expensive upgrade.
As far as rotating weight and the extra weight of the Rohloff, here is a video that tests rotating weight theory. th-cam.com/video/0QDnUkUaQfk/w-d-xo.html
For some reason I don’t get notified of new comments, apologies. Interesting video! As for the Rohloff, rotating weight has basically zero effect as the weight is at the axle/centre of the wheel (not on the circumference - outer rotating point). What does matter is, is “unsprung weight” and that is a concern for some and does influence the rear suspension.
spqba747 , 23kgs. Standard with derailleur is 22kgs... which is on the lighter side of most eBikes. Although new models coming out are targeting 19-22 kgs.
300,000+ Rohloff owners would think otherwise, but that's the wonderful thing about being a consumer... you can choose, buy and use what you want, cheers Paul.
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I have a Rohloff on my 2019 Specialized Kenevo running 200 travel back and front and I’m loving it.
I’ve owned the bike just on a year and a half now and in time I went through 3 derailleurs, 3 chains, 1 chainring and 2 hubs.
I was getting sick of breaking my bike in the middle of the bush and constantly changing parts.
I ride cross country, gravity, parks and a bit of DH and the Rohloff hasn’t missed a beat!
The whole system is quiet, chain slap almost non existent and the changes are so much more reliable and consistent.
The ground clearance is way better in the rocky stuff and in the mud and dirt it doesn’t pick up all the crap like the old system. I especially love changing gears while stopped or when I get stuck on a hill and have to restart in a lower gear. A simple twist and I’m there. No more lifting a heavy ebike to cycle the cranks. Also changing to the right gear while coasting is also handy.
Once you get used to the backing off to gear change the system is so easier to operate.
The service provided by Rohloff is second to none. Their communication and help setting up the system has been amazing.
Yes the initial cost is higher but for what you get hands down worth it.
It is well built, easily maintained and can take anything I throw at it. What more does one want from a product!
I’ve recently bought a new bike and the derailleur system feels so fragile in comparison. I will be transferring my Rohloff straight to that bike as soon as I can!
I totally agree with everything you said. I've had my Levo for a year as well. I've changed 3 chains and one chainring. My biggest cog when the chain is on it is making noise now. Probably needs a new cassette now.
My Turner has had a Rohloff on it since 2005. I rarely had to change chains, I've never broken anything on it either. About every 4 or 5 years it needs new seals, and an annual oil change. If you use a wax based lubricant and get jockey wheels with ceramic bearings it is so easy maintaining.
Ciao, posso chiederti a che negozio ti sei rivolto?
I bought it from Paul Moir in QLD Australia.
Top work. Hope you shared this with everyone that matters at specialized
I just busted the FOURTH derailleur on my Specialized Levo. One of the guys at our local bike shop mentioned considering switching to an "internal gear hub" and found this video. Really good stuff hopefully this tech makes its way mainstream and derailleurs become a thing of the past. I do not care about extra weight it's all about durability.
Overall weight is around 800gms... nearly 1kg (depending on the groupset being used originally). With an eBike, I find the weight not to be even a consideration... even a normal analog mtb I find the ability to "just enjoy the ride" far outways the worry of a derailleur drivetrain. With the Rohloff you just change the oil once a year, no tuning of gears, no noisy gear changes, nothing more - just ride.
Derailleurs on eMtbs take a real beating... noisy impact gear changes, excessive wear to chains and rings. The extra power from the electric motor (70-100Nm torque) does cause wear and damage at a much higher rate than you would hope or expect on your eMtb (eBike). I converted my new 2019 Specialized Turbo Levo eMtb from a derailleur drivetrain to an A12 Thru-axle Rohloff Speedhub (geared hub), and what started out as a personal project simply to make my bike much more enjoyable to ride (and minimise repairs and maintenance), I also found an unexpected amount of interest to do the same conversion from other eBikers who are having serious derailleur issues and breakages. The immediate interest was unexpected, the reasons why were not. Very happy with my new Specialized Levo-Rohloff eBike!
Hey Paul, pretty sweeeeeeeet setup. I have heard people (commuter enthusiasts) talk glowingly about Rohloff in the past but only recently taken the time to check out the system. Love this conversion - I have the 2018 Giant E-Pro and will be measuring up when the incumbent drive train gives out.
Interesting idea ;) Nikolai made some excellent work to integrate the Rohloff Speedhub. They solve the problem with shifting and also use a gates carbon belt. You may want to have a look at their G1 EBOXX E14.
lll Yes, Nicolai have their EBOXX with a Rohloff Speedhub and with Rohloff’s E14 electronic shifting (only available for the Bosch motors). My purchase decision for an eMtb back in March 2019 was between the Nicolai EBOXX E14 and the Specialized Levo. In the end I went with the Levo as firstly I could test ride one and more importantly... it’s a lighter and more nimbler bike, which suited me best. The Nicolai EBOXX E14 is an innovative design and an engineering masterpiece.
Excellent video, very thought provoking as merely adding electric motors to MTB's inevitably means that the drivetrain wears out faster. Integrating a hub gearbox and ultimately belt drive removes the most vulnerable components from the bike which has to be progress. However I appreciate that the upfront costs will be significant.
Very nice, question how did you solve the magnet issue? Can you send some pictures how that you did the cable routing also. Riding for year Rohloff and a big fan.
You can drill a 10mm hole or now you can buy a newly designed "speed sensor bracket" from Rohloff that clips onto their Rohloff Rotor. Can send some images of the cabling, what is your email address?
Familymoir-Google Account nice info pictures are welcome to albert.franqui@telenet.be
Have you though about a belt drive system with this? Chain wear and stretch is a big problem on ebikes and ive been looking into a belt drive. The problem is keeping the belt tight under suspension travel.
Think ill be going to the rohloff asap on my cube stereo.
Mentioned the same earlier today... "You cannot fit a Gates belt on a full suspension mtb unless you had a custom and well-engineered tensioner (belt tension is critical on a belt drive)." And you must have a break (split joiner) in the rear of the frame to feed the belt into as a belt has no joining link.
Familymoir-Google Account
Veers actually do a low tension splitable belt something like this would easily work on a mtb and often is, the problem is finding a belt tensioner (like the chain version in the video) thats designed to accommodate suspension chain growth.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount these guys seem to have somthing working. Not electric though. th-cam.com/video/CmwChTaSx9M/w-d-xo.html Also I didn't think you required a split joiner on a full suspension. You just have to have a suspension that allows disasembly. I thought most do with the right tools?
I cannot believe that rohloffs aren't more popular. I put mine on XC hardtail and it's amazing. No fuss with the derailleurs, it just works. I was thinking on putting it on a regular full suspension trail bike, anyone knows a decent frame with 135mm QR on the rear?
Dear Familymoir, I own a S works Turbo Levo. I have Roval carbon wheels on it. I had the bike equipped with SRAM AXS.
Within a year the drive turns out to be worn, afterwards you hear and read that it occurs more often than average with an ebike.
I was told that the original Roval carbon wheels are not suitable for the Rohloff hub. Do you know more about this?
Sincerely
Clyde
Sorry for the delayed reply, I don’t know why I don’t receive a notification? You could use the Roval carbons... but I even changed out the alloy Rovals as they are not a good strong rim. In saying that, the bigger issue is the rim needs to be a 32 or 36 hole rim.
Excellent argument for Rohloff.... I think it's agreed that the derailleur system has taken cycling just about as far as it can and we've been waiting for the new 'pretender to the gearing throne' for a while now....whether or not it is to be the Rohloff I couldn't say but you have to admit that its a fine system.... I kinda feel that if they could sort the 'gear change under tension' conundrum, Rohloff would have a real challenger to the throne!
Enjoyed your vid v much.
Cheers Shakkers 🇬🇧
To properly shift a derailleur shifting system is the same as a Rohloff. Unweight the pedals a little until you shift. You will never break a chain during shifts that way.
I've been running a Rohloff on a Turner XCE since 2005. Best ever idea in bicycling since multi gears.
@@mtbkmaniac1 yours is a very welcome comment based, as it is, on 15 years actual user experience.... Unfortunately tho, (as the lack of acceptance of the Rohloff product has shown thus far, despite its superiority to derailleur) for any new gearing system to succeed I reckon it's gonna have to come from the likes of a massive manufacturer like Sram or Shimano to stand any chance of acceptance at all .... Bit of a bugger really isn't it.....
@@leno4920 the complexity of the system with 2 cables requiring someone who is able to properly install them is one thing against. The 2nd is the drag in some gears more than others. Shimano's Alfine system 8 speed is pretty good. I have that on my wife's Electra, but it's only 8. I have saved so much money not replacing cassettes about 2 years max. I used to go through Shimano 9speed chains every 3 months, then a middle or granny every 3 or so chains due to chainsuck. With Rohloff , I am able to reverse the rear cog and the front chainring for double life. I also only run single speed chains. They are under $20. I think I change chains every 6 or 8 months now which is determined by measuring with the Rohloff chain checker. People dont see the long term value. Perhaps its because we change bikes more often now. So do the systems. It's hard to keep up since Rohloff has its axle diameter limit and now the custom attachment system. With all that said, I want one for my Levo regardless of the high initial cost.
I like the idea but, your video is lacking some much-needed info.
1. gear ratio comparison
2. cost
3. spoke pattern and dia, will this be durable enough for guys that are jumping...more extreme abuse.
4. is a twist shifter the only option.
5. is this designed with the emtb abuse in mind, meaning would that void any warranty...etc.
6.weight difference.
Dave, all good questions which I have answered below. The video was more designed as a story to overview on what I had done on this particular eMtb... not intended as a sales tool. In saying that, there have been many enquires and much interest in the video (it is on Vimeo too). Our website at the end of the video www.rohloff-au.com explains much much more.
1. Rohloff has a 526% gear range (broader than 27, 12 or 11 speed mtb gearing), then you can adjust the rear sprocket from 15-21 tooth to suit your most demanding climbing or touring needs.
2. Cost for a Speedhub kit varies from A$1700-2000, plus rotor, tensioner and torque restraint options if required... that all depends on the bike and frame design. So without knowing what bike you have, probably around $1900-$2300.
3. The Rohloff websites have more detail, but the Rohloff wheel is much stronger than a normal hub wheel build due to the larger diameter symmetrical flanges. Spokes are laced in a 2-cross pattern and are typically 2.0/1.8 DD Sapim or DT Swiss with specific head detail requirements. Yes, very strong and can handle jumping and downhill abuse no problem.
4. Twist shift is standard, there is a third party option for a trigger shift (see more comments on this answered earlier below).
5. 70% of Rohloffs are fitted to eBikes worldwide. No warranty is voided - this is a very strong, very reliable and very rugged internal gearhub (proven reliability since 1986). Again, it depends on the bike and electric motor (currently motor torques up to 100Nm are no problem).
6. Weight: as mentioned in the video, my setup added 1.5kg with the Rohloff Speedhub and my new rims, front hub and tyres. Rims, front hub and tyres don’t need to be changed as I did, the Rohloff itself is an extra 0.8kg... as compared to the derailleur components.
Hope that answers most of questions. You can see more at www.rohloff-au.com and facebook.com/rohloffaustralia, or email me at paul@familymoir.com.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount would you recommend the electronic shifter, this was a 12 speed was then next one 16 speed? lovely idea, glad you made this video.
Larry, all Rohloff Speedhubs are 14 speed (14 gears equally spaced with a 526% range.. most derailleur options are a little less on range 490-515%). Currently Rohloff’s electronic shifting option is only compatible and available with specific Bosch emotors... like the CX Performance line. For mtbing, I believe the mechanical shifter is the better option at this time as you can shift multiple gears (say 5-6 gears at once) quicker than electronic shifting.
Familymoir-Google Account thank u might consider this option for my older 2017 Turbo Levo which I call my Frankenstein eMTB, I really like the setup, how does the mechanical shifter shift? Is it going through a thru axle?
Larry, look at the video at 3:45... explains the gear shifting which is done with spring loaded pawls which are located on the main axle with an external shaft which is then rotated back and forth via a cable box to the handle bar twist shifter.
Great information. I have an AZUB TRIcon recumbent tricycle with a
Bafang e-assist motor and battery. Shifting is handled at the rear with a
Shimano Deore trigger/thumb lever and derailleur (10 speed). Thinking
to converting to a Rohloff hub. Distance between chain stays is 5.375
inches (13.65 cm). Would that work with a Rohloff hub? Also cabling to
rear dereailleur runs thru the handles bars and cables. I know the
Rohloff uses two cables, so I don't think that would work with my
current cable routing situation. So, now I am think electronic shifting?
Would that work with the Bafang system? Can you direct me to more
information? Please advise. Thank you.
David, the electronic shifting is currently only available with the latest Bosch emotors. A cabled Rohloff should not be a problem - I've seen a number recumbents with Rohloffs and it all works very well... although without seeing the bike and components, I couldn't guarantee the cabling will work internally as it does now through the bars? Where do you live (country) - I can then direct you to the best contact to gather more information. Cheers Paul.
I have a rohloff and have put it in several bikes can you make a video on the adapter you made to make it fit. I would really like to put put this in my v10
straight2curveus, when you say a V10... do you mean a Santa Cruz V10? If so, depending on what Rohloff Speedhub you have now, you should be able to fit it to your SC V10 (but I’m not sure if your V10 is a 135mm OLD or a 148mm OLD and if it’s a 12mm thru-axle?... distance between dropouts). If it’s a 12mm thru-axle you would need a new gear unit internal or a new A12 Speedhub, as the axles are completely different in design. Send me some detail and photos on what Rohloff you have now and.your V10 and I can at least advise if it’s possible or not to fit your existing Speedhub (email me on paul@familymoir.com).
Did you have to modify anything for the fitting, and are you running 27,5 in the back and 29 in the front? I love Rohloff.. your a trail rider.. ask a jumper to test your bike to see if the weight of the Hub makes a difference.. I dont think it will.. but a very nice job and well done... ride on
The only “modification” was the left side (disc brake side) dropout inside mating surface which needed to be faced flat so the Rohloff axle plate sat square and perpendicular to the axle. The standard wheels are 29er back and front, right now I’m running Maxxis Minion DHF-WT 29x2.5 both front and back. Haven’t done any big jumps, but with 1-2m of air on jumps, double jumps/table tops and dropoffs all seem very balanced - rear shock was increased 10-15 psi and rebound just one click... for me it seems better than before (but may have just tuned the rear better). There’s a 4kg 700watt battery upfront in the downtube, so the 0.8kg additional weight of the Rohloff on the rear has had negligible handling impact that I have felt.
good video, wondering when the belt drive conversion is coming, its been 3 years we should have seen that by now. (and maybe an option to a normal shifter and not the old school grip-shifter too)
A Gates belt drive has been available on a Rohloff 10 years... but you cannot use a belt-drive on a full suspension bike, unless it has a "custom engineered belt tensioner" for the specific frame. Nicolai have one on their EBOXX Rohloff model already, but again it is a custom engineered tensioner for that bike, that frame and that model. Gates belt tension is critical that is is maintained at a constant tension - an off the shelf tensioner will not work. If you have a hardtail, you can fit one (if the frame has a split to feed the belt through). A "normal shifter", you mean a "trigger shift" is available as a third party component... but most prefer the normal "grip shifter'". Some like myself preferred the normal "grip shifter" on non-Rohloff bikes... on derailleur drive train bikes, and still do. That's simply a personal choice.
HI Paul, I have 2 X Rohloff equipped bikes already so know and love the hubs, I am hoping for an e-mtb in the future and would love it to be fitted with a Rohloff and try the new e-shifting, but also love to try belt drive. Are there belt drive kits available that will work with a Rohloff set-up on a full suspension e-mtb?
Cheers, Mick.
Belt Drives: you need a break in the frame to fit the belt which has no joiner, and unless you have a specially designed and engineered tensioner, in general the belt will not work on a full suspension mtb (Google a Nicolai EBOXX to see an example, but you cannot use an off the shelf tensioner).
eShifting: can only be fitted to the latest Bosch and Panasonic motors. Secondly, if you’re a reasonable of serious mtber, the manual twist shifter is much quicker and more useable than the current E14 electronic shifting.
Existing Speedhubs: you can use your existing Rohloff Speedhub on an eMtb, as long as it is the same axle/OLD arrangement. That is a 10mm quick release axle or 10mm threaded axle… 135mm OLD. If it is the more common these days 12mm thru-axle, the internal gear unit is different. Basically you cannot use your current Speedhubs in a 12mm thru axle setup.
Sorry, none of that is good news or what you probably would have liked to hear.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount Thanks Paul, yes I have seen the Nicolai. on a full system MTB I thought it would be easy to split a pivot point to get the belt on but was not sure if there was a generic/specific? tensioner to allow for suspension travel and how it might be fitted to a frame not designed to accomodate it.
@@mickorance3029 you cannot buy an “off the shelf” (retail purchase) tensioner. You need to have a tensioner design specific to your bike, your frame. Gates belt tension is critical and the tensioner must apply even (consistent) tension force throughout the travel range of the rear swingarm. And this must be a specified tension force… not just any tension amount.
Is there a specific assembly kit for the levo dropouts or the pieces are stock and available to purchase from a Rolhoff store? I'm really interested in converting my transmission is possible to have more information? Thanks in advance.
Nicola, send me your email address to (paul@familymoir.com) and I will email you a pdf document on how this works and what the process is. There is no kit, there is no standard product for this conversion you can simply buy from Rohloff. The Speedhub itself is easy to purchase, but that is a measurement process you need to do first. It is not overly complicated, but there are some steps you need to follow and there is some customisation required - dependent on the bike.
Also if you have not seen the follow-up video to this one, you can find it at th-cam.com/video/Zuhcd2-a7z8/w-d-xo.html
Helpful vid for me in trying to make a decision. I am wondering though if a person is using their ebike 90% of the time for road use the derailleur would hold up much better. In which case it could be a more economical option
Road use will definitely hold up better than offroad... mountain biking. Although the Rohloff's main customer base has always been long distance touring cyclists and commuters - simply for longevity, reliability and long-term cost of ownership. Fit and forget.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount thanks buddy
Will you also test the kindernay XIV or are you good with the Rohloff?
No plans Tony... I'm the Rohloff distributor for Australia, but see no real need to be honest. I did this as a personal project and love the hassle free drivetrain for an eMtb. Now have 5,500kms and changed one drive train at 4000kms.
I’m in, can you give me a total cost break down, new wheel, hub and brake system you used
Sorry... just seen this comment. All up it is around US$2000-2500, depending if you need a new rim or other parts specific to your bike. Needs to be a 32 or 36 hole rim, the Speedhub is the hub and the brakes don't change.
I wonder if the Rollof can handle the torque from the newer Bafang M620 putting out 160 nm of torque? Also, does it interface with the Bafang controller?
Yes it can, I fitted one to this bike/motor… the Bafang 620, installed with the alloy drive pins to take the higher torque. No, it does not talk with the Bafang controller or any other system… it is simply another drive option with a twist shifter to select gears. I say simply, but it will outlast a derailleur 10x with 160Nm torque.
Ah - it uses the new through-axle Rohloff. Was hoping I could have moved my existing hub across. :(
For some reason I don’t get notified of new comments, apologies. Unfortunately you cannot use the same Rohloff.
Cool ride👌🏻😉⚡️
Uh... damn impressive, may I say.
Not with grip shift! If you could get it with regular shifter I would be more interested
Depends what you mean by a “regular shift”, I assume you mean a trigger shift which you can use a variety of third party trigger shifts. For others their regular shift is a twist shifter... I’ve used SRAM grip shifts (twist shifters) since 2005. Personal choice, but both are possible with the Rohloff.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount you can't find any real mountain bike sold with grip shift anymore. Yes I mean trigger shift, sram or shimano
I want to put a rohloff on my fat ebike. Bafang. It has a shift sensor that detects cable movement. I wonder if this will work to shut motor down as a safety against damaging the rohloff?
I use no additional system to protect the Rohloff. I use the standard Rohloff manual twist shifter and like any Rohloff, you don't change under pedalling load - so simply back off before changing which can be done in a fraction of a second. Not sure how the Bafang works... if the motor runs on then it will make it difficult/unable to change gears. Very difficult to damage the Rohloff unless you exceed the maximum power it is designed for - and with the current eBikes on the market that is not an issue.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount
Well, I have a newer motor. The bafang Ultra. My bike has both throttle and torque sensor. It's also has brake cut off, and shift sensing. The shift sensor works well at cutting the motor power when going down the gears but sometimes gives me a loud "clunk" when the derailleur attempts to move the chain up the sprocket. This usually happens when I try to shift through multiple gears at once. I think this is due to the amount of time it takes for the derailleur to complete this action when going up hill as compared to going down when the motor attempt to re-engage. From my understanding, the shift sensor only momentarily delays motor power to give the shift time to complete. Since the rohloff is fast shifting maybe this wont be a problem. I was just hoping the shift sensor and cutting in motor power was fast enough to act prior to the rohloff doing its job. From what I heard, rohloff's are very fast and indexing occurs in the hub itself, not the shifter. The push pull of the twist shifter is direct linked to the change in gears as compared to a derailleur during gear selection.
Raynell, not quite sure if you had a specific question, but I can confirm you can shift a Rohloff very quickly... much much faster than a derailleur. 10 gears (or as many as you can twist in one turn) in a second or less. And yes, indexing is done within the Speedhub itself, not the shifter.
What’s with the huffy right throttle grip shifter?? Surely...
Ken, that’s a Rohloff twist shifter (turn/twist to change gears up or down). Same as a SRAM twist shift... for changing gears.
Is it not possible for a electronic shifter that can auto drop power for that milli sec while shifting. I can’t see a twist shift being very favoured by too many people?
Mark, you can change to a trigger shift which some do (it’s a third party option), but it doesn’t allow to shift 8-10-12 gears all at once like a twist shift does which is great when you want to dump a heap of gears quickly. Rohloff electronic shifting came out a couple of years back but is only currently available for an integrated Bosch CX motor system... and yes it cuts the motor for a fraction of a second as it changes. Hopefully they will have the retrofit available soon.... no more cables for me would be the best advantage.
Is there a way of buying a bike like that ? and where?
could it be made with a belt instead of a chain ?
I guess there is... if you were in Australia we could certainly supply a bike just like this. You cannot fit a Gates belt on a full suspension mtb unless you had a custom and well-engineered tensioner (belt tension is critical on a belt drive).
You need to make update to that video. The best is kindernay XIV now
You need to keep up to date… Kindernay filed for bankruptcy
www.cyclingabout.com/kindernay-hub-no-longer-they-went-bankrupt/
How's it holding up?
Sorry for the delayed reply, I don’t know why I don’t receive a notification? Have 5000kms now, changed the drivetrain out at 4000kms. The Rohloff itself is perfect... that will never wear out. vimeo.com/387041805
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount I got a Levo with Shimano SLX. The two tallest gears began skipping at 200 MILES!!! This looks like a difficult conversion though...requiring special brackets to be fabbed and surfaces to be machined.
That dropout adapter was it custom?
No, comes with the Rohloff A12.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount I want to use mine with my boost frame. My Rohloff is an older model with a torque arm. Used for standard 135x10mm spacing. Probably can buy that separately. Thanks for the info Mr. Paul, more safe rides!
@@ersonvelasco2531 you cannot use your old 135mm/10mm Rohloff Speedhub unfortunately. The A12 (12mm thru-axle boost) is a completely different internal axle which cannot be swapped out.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount oh i see, the only hope I’m lookin at is to use a frame with sliding dropouts.
You could use belt drive
No you cannot use a belt drive on a full suspension bike… you need a custom designed and engineered tensioner for each specific frame. Belt tension is critical - that is why you only see it on a couple of full suspension bikes worldwide which have a custom designed tensioner for that bike.
Why dont you guys sell a kit to adapt to modern thru axle frames?
straight2curveus, Rohloff do sell and manufacture a Speedhub model for modern 12mm thru-axle frames - it’s called an A12 Speedhub (it is very popular). This is basically an adaptor kit, not a true thru-axle... this is what I am using on my Specialized Levo. You first need to go through an adaption/measurement process to provide data back to Rohloff to manufacture an adaptor kit and A12 Speedhub to fit each specific frame. I made this document to explain this process... vimeo.com/346199290 (email me on paul@familymoir.com if you would like the easier to read PDF doc?)
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount I have a skewer quick release axle disk rohloff. I thought you made a adapter?
I remember looking into it and not being able to convert my existing rohloff to work with a thru axle frame.
straight2curveus, ok - no. There is no adaptor to convert a qr Speedhub to a 12mm thru-axle Speedhub... the internal axle is a new design. You can swap out the complete internal gear unit but that’s an expensive option A$700-800, then you would order the dropout adaptors to suit your frame (probably another $100). Still half the price of a new A12 Speedhub, but an expensive upgrade.
Hello! How to install rohloff on Turbo Vado?
You need to go to your Rohloff dealer in your country, city.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount Can I install Rohloff myself? There are no official representatives in our area.
@@evgeniy6500, where do you live? Yes you can install a Rohloff Speedhub yourself, assuming you have reasonable mechanical skills and competencies.
@@FamilymoirGoogleAccount What do I need to install Rohloff? Have you drilled holes in the frame feathers?
@@evgeniy6500 , no drilling anything. Where do you live (country, city)?
As far as rotating weight and the extra weight of the Rohloff, here is a video that tests rotating weight theory.
th-cam.com/video/0QDnUkUaQfk/w-d-xo.html
For some reason I don’t get notified of new comments, apologies. Interesting video! As for the Rohloff, rotating weight has basically zero effect as the weight is at the axle/centre of the wheel (not on the circumference - outer rotating point). What does matter is, is “unsprung weight” and that is a concern for some and does influence the rear suspension.
For those interested and needing more information, this one may help... th-cam.com/video/SHbOY4vVY2M/w-d-xo.html
it must weight like a ton!
spqba747 , 23kgs. Standard with derailleur is 22kgs... which is on the lighter side of most eBikes. Although new models coming out are targeting 19-22 kgs.
Trail Grannies :€
…overcomplicated and very expensive…go minimalist instead…
300,000+ Rohloff owners would think otherwise, but that's the wonderful thing about being a consumer... you can choose, buy and use what you want, cheers Paul.