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RMAF 2018 - Why Analog is Digital and How to Fix It - Peter Ledermann
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2018
- 2018 Seminars are sponsored by: EnjoyTheMusic.com
Why Analog is Digital and How to Fix It
Speaker: Peter Ledermann, Soundsmith
Last year I gave a general overview of the challenges of the life of a cartridge in trying to reclaim the information trapped in a vinyl groove, much like trying to find the Rosetta Stone of physics for analog reproduction. This year, I will briefly go over those issues, but extend it further to considerations of what exactly goes on at the groove/stylus interface and try to illuminate why and how different styli profiles interact with the other problems of analog reproduction. It is my hope that this talk will impart an intuitive understanding of how challenging it is to build a properly working phono cartridge.
I hope the listeners will leave with a good “gut feeling” of the difficulties that stylus, cantilever and cartridges face. This explanation in lay terms will hopefully impart some of the many challenges and design choices that face a phono cartridge designer in the effort to reduce stylus jitter, thereby increasing the “sampling rate” in an attempt to design an accurate analog stylus/groove system. If you leave with small portion of the understanding and “feel” of the complexity of such systems, I will have succeeded in making sure you never decide to become a cartridge designer. I will also discuss Soundsmith’s efforts to tame these systems that in truth, represent a far closer relationship to digital renderings from vinyl than analog, as they fall prey to the unavoidable physics that dominate such systems.
Man, do I love to listen to Mr. Peter Lederman speak! He could go on for hours and hours, and I’d still be glued to his every word.
He is a true visionary and one of the true greats and legends of HiFi.
Thank you, Peter.
Agree 100%. I learn more every time I hear him speak
I am only 15 mins. into this talk on TH-cam and it's blowing my mind......Peter is a genius.
What a masterclass from Peter, incredible!
When Peter speaks I am spellbound. Thanks so much for posting this.
Peter is a straight up gentleman. A pleasure to deal with. I had two MC cartridges retipped by him ten years ago. Excellent service, excellent sound.
Peter has gone further into the design more than anybody else period !
I greatly appreciated this lecture.I learned quite a bit about the tone are..tracking..stylus investment.A well done lecture.Thank you.
amazing man...you know when he starts talking that you are going on a journey ..
I could listen to Peter talk all day.
This video is going to piss off a lot of old foagies. Brilliant lecture.
Audfile
I am a crutchity old foagie and I am not pissed off at all, just hear to learn.
Great video. Always get so much from the stuff Peter says. He is one of the greats!
thanks mr. bot.
@@jaapaap5 My great pleasure, glad you enjoyed my comment.
Wonderful young man with such enthusiasm. Bravo
Brilliant presentation as usual by Peter Lederman. I’ve got an old box of cactus styli that were meant for use on 78’s many years ago, and I wonder why that wasn’t brought up.
Damn! Don't you love listening to people with serious ears and the ability to think out of the box? Thank you Peter and RMAF. Oh, and this is not a shill.... I don't know these people and Peter's lisp is not as easy to listen to as others, but so what big deal. He's so bound by his ears and curiosity, his integrity is guaranteed. Compromise is torture to these weirdos. Thank god!
@Marten Dekker ??? I like and respect Ledermann very much. As I pretty clearly said. But you hear 'lisp" out of context to you. Clean the sand out of your own panties Mr Try Focusing lamo 'woke' twiddle head...
I think what Peter said at the start of his talk about working via his intuition is important.
Intuition and making connections is fundamental to creativity.
hi Peter, i have seen you at the LA THE Shows and have admired your work from afar for some years now. i have heard one of your cartridges, a Hyperion that you sold to Steve Eshita in San Gabriel CA. another friend, Russ Stratton has had you do a Denon 103 with the ruby cantilever/microline stylus. of course, i had nothing but admiration for both.
i too went to Hard Knox University. i had xray training and experience in the USAF and acquired Nuclear Medicine skills ojt and then became certified and licensed in california. hands-on experience that enabled me to actually guide an MD in a procedure that we were both performing for the first time.
i once saw Rudy Bozak late in his life just sitting in a chair at a hifi show in LA before there had been a Stereophile Show. it may have been in the LA Convention Center. i hadn't actually heard Bozak speakers until then and my inexperience kept me from being able to have a valid opinion at the time. i did know there were models with a metal cone.
i remember reading about the KEF impulse testing (i eventually got a pair of LS3/5As, and then Fried Model RIIs with two of the same drivers) and the Celestion laser interferometry that demonstrated the "oil can distortion" of the diaphragms.
what you had to say about the tonearms and vibration illustrates the very reason for having excellent bearings among other things.
the moving iron being a choice for your is intriguing because i was SO enamored of the sound of my ADC XLMs. i wonder if you could comment on that design. i am also an admirer of the Ortofon lines (i had a MC200 and have spent many hours listening to the Kontrapunkt b.
antiskating. well, i always thought Joe Grado was FOS when he said to just increase VTF and that you don't need antiskating. joe and the dolts at Audio-Technica that released the tonearm without anti-skate.
well, i hope the Schroeder arm is not of unipivot design, they just don't seem stable enough for me except for Conti's design which has a stabilizer that prevents sideways rocking.
i think i have seen views in some of the seminars at RMAF where the audiences were thin, which is a shame because they all seem to be close to the standard you set for yours. thankfully, the YT allows for a wider audience and i am thankful that you agreed to participate this way.
...hifitommy
Interesting that during this presentation, I too thought of my experiences with the ADC XLM cartridge. And how it was an all time personal favorite. I've also had some experience with the Panasonic Strain Gauge. When I worked with the late Mel Schilling, at His California Store - 'Music & Sound' (Woodland Hills) ; I had some contact with the "myth" John Iverson, who eventually developed a Preamp to optimize the performance of the said Strain Gauge. Peter's presentation was Not Only Amazing but, Freakin' Brilliant. But, I do regret, He didn't have enough time to expound on it's inherent qualities, and how his research could further improve i's performance. Lastly, Thanks for your observations; as well as Peter's. All great food for thought.
@Marten Dekker thete are different trains of thought on the tonearm bearings Marten. I'm a speaker engineer by profession (reference fidelity components) but have always had an interest in energy transfer systems pertaining to cartridges and tonearms. Any parasytic resonance or transferred energy resonance from the pickup exciting a poorly designed arm can do a lot of damage to the sound by being reflected back to the stylus. Adopting the approach used by Origin Live in their tonearms whereby bearings are not rigidly coupled to the arm or pillar reduce the reflection which would otherwise occur. They do this by not packing the races tightly as Rega and others do, effectively floating the arm connection. I have compared the latest OL silver with a unipivot and an SME 309 arm...the OL sits somehere in between by design and cartridge performance is a whole level raised from the unipivot or sme designs even in the humble OL Silver arm.
I found Peters talk superb, thought provoking and hugely informative. I came to speaker design by way of a 23 career in civil engineer as a graduate then chartered engineer and since then have been fortunate to approach my interest in speaker design intuitively, making many mistakes along the way but finally finding that "black shadow" area or niche where, like Peter, I have discovered ways to improve conventional designs through fresh thinking....no digital processing in sight...all passive as I live in an analogue world! Point is, this approach is similar to Peters so I really appreciate his views on design and found the whole talk fascinating.
Great stuff. Fascinating.
You Are Amazing Mr. Lederman!!!!
---blowing my mind going through
all the various minute intricacies of
signal extraction from our beloved vinyl
>> Festival Matcher -- TH-cam
It would be interesting to see the equivalent of the sand movement in 3D space (without any metal of course). It would have to be done in zero gravity.
Something I didn't hear on the subject of the needle bouncing and sampling the groove. You have to know or remember that once electricity starts to flow it wants to keep flowing, this is why a switch arcs when opened but not closed. If you stop the stylus from moving or stop the generating process, electricity continues to flow. Wouldn't this help smooth out, or fill the gaps in the wave inbetween samples? Hope this is understandable, I understand electricity but maybe don't explain it well. To me it's far more amazing music can be reproduced this way than digitally. Seems much more complex than digital.
I use ortofon nightclub series stylus with technics 1200 mk 2 tables and a rane 2016 rotory mixer. Crown c.e. 1000, 2000 and 4000 series amps with jbl 4550 cabinets swooped of folded? Bass horns with dual 15 inch woofers 2220j series and k series. 4 way crossed over system. Low floor cabs vented. Upper bass cabs not vented home designed mids housing 6 8 inch jbl speakers and 4 flares enclosed in cabs with titanium jbl diaphram drivers. Yeah . Dinosaur. But it sounds amazing!
Wow. Love shit like this!
goot,,,,
Great speech about sound but horrible sound. Why?
It’s a novel term and readdresses miss-tracking
If you turn your amp off, and listen to the stylus riding the groove, you'll hear the music - which is actual soundwaves being acoustically emitted from the stylus being vibrated by the groove-walls.
There is nothing digital about this, the soundwave produced by the stylus vibrating in the groove is just as real as the sound of me tapping my finger against the table.
There is absolutely no comparison to be made with a pulse code modulated digital signal.
Just because the stylus has a hard time keeping static contact with the groove-wall doesn't suddenly turn it into digital sound, this to me is such an odd way of seeing things.
I feel like the whole attempted analogy is only that, an attempt.
Vinyl is a a real acoustic event taking place, that's why it sounds real, - *It is REAL*
Yes I understand that you might want to point out that the vibrations from the stylus also creates an electric signal which is the analogue source.
But my point still is,
- an electric guitar-string vibrating above a guitar pick-up modulating a signal, is as real as the stylus vibrating the pick-up on a turntable tonearm.
I can strum an electric guitar without it being plugged into an amp and you'll hear the music.
- Same goes for a turntable playing by itself without being hooked up to an amp/loudspeaker.
So by Peters logic - is an electric guitar also a digital instrument?
I can assure you, it isn't a digital instrument by no stretch of the imagination. Though it seems that Peter is very imaginative.
he's almost wrong about perception being digital....maths finds continuity very hardv to get to grips with, because maths is built on the integers, therefore everything "looks" digital because our toolbox, maths, is essentially digital.......
The cartridge that gets the cactus stylus cost $5000. Should be cheaper than that for “free from nature” cantilevered...... 😂
It’s all good and dandy but here is another person in the industry who exhibits a profound lack of understanding of the principles of digital audio. BTW confusing discrete, sampling etc with digital is a gross misunderstanding error.
Agreed. And a basic knowledge of conservation laws and physics in general take the magic out of the Newton's cradle, just as knowledge of modal analysis and eigenmodes would resolve any questions about the sand mode patterns seen. Without a proper formal background you have to rely on intuition, and that is dangerous.