After some time and further consideration, thought I'd create some new builds based on this series to break out of almost always using some slight variant of the same set of skills. Limitations are no PvE skills (so heroes can also use). I also prefer for elites only to be used by the applicable primary profession: ~0:00:29 Regarding "Brace Yourself!".... Per our original exchange, I tested how heroes use this, namely proactively or reactively. At best the test was inconclusive but I concluded that heroes use reactively (i.e. after the first knockdown). Tested with General Morgahn set to guard and fight against the Jotun with Ward of Stability disabled. He seemed to only use after the first knockdown. As everyone was affected, he seemed to always put on me. If only one party member was KD'd, I suspect he would put it on that party member. If more than one, could be random. Likely always preferring the party leader if they were one of those KD'd. This reactive behavior is a real shame. ~0:04:46 Regarding "Can't Touch This!".... To expand on my clear love affair with this skill and note here some advantages I believe are noted elsewhere in this series, advantages that aren't obvious on the surface. Since the shout lasts it's recharge, it can be abused to do two things. First, since it can be used outside of battle, one can fully charge all adrenaline skills with Signet of Aggression. 2 strikes every 5 seconds pre-battle and you're a force at spear throw #1. Second, it can help to keep Aggressive Refrain renewed between battles, though you will likely need two chants/shouts always ending. Done correctly, one will only need to use the echo as soon as you enter a zone. This trick can save a lot of time and energy, as Aggressive Refrain is 25e! I will add that I do not know if the number of touch fails is per ally or for the entire party, but if this stops one touch spike it's worth a slot in my eyes. ~0:07:39 Regarding "Fallback!".... While I can see the appeal of the partywide speed buff for rushing through a mission or zone, I personally would never burn a slot (or perhaps a whole line) for this in hard mode. There are zones and/or quests that are runaway until mission/quest ends, but that doesn't make this a good overall skill. I do see value when your team needs to scatter out of a nuke, but this would be a poor choice against some, namely Churning Earth. As for game design, this should be scaled the same as "Stand Your Ground!", as they do opposite yet similar things. Don't move and get +24 armor or move and get 12 health gain; however, at 12 Command each costs 10e and has 20r but Fallback lasts only 8 seconds to SYG's 16. Just rarely worth the slot in my view. ~0:11:18 Regarding "Find Their Weakness!".... Reevaluating this one. On a primary paragon looking to inflict deep wound (in hard mode and late game where foes will likely have more starting health than you), the two contenders are FTW! and Slayer's Spear. FTW! costs net 8e, does +38 damage, deep wound lasts 16s, and has 15r. Slayer's costs 10e, does +21 damage, deep wound lasts 17s, and has 4r. The deep wound duration difference is immaterial. FTW! provides +38 damage every 15s, Slayers +21 every 4s (or +84 every 16s). FTW! inflicts deep wound unconditionally. Slayer's may find fewer foes to trigger the deep wound mid to late battle. FTW! can be used with Spear of Fury for an immediate adrenaline shot, but Spear is a PvE only skill so not applicable to heroes. If the FTW! attack is blocked, or you're blinded, or you're ruppted before/while getting it off, you have to wait 15s to try again. With Slayer's you can deal with the block/blind and try again in 4s. FTW! can easily be slotted in an (e.g.) E/P or N/P support build. Slayer's cannot. With all these considerations, I'd likely prefer Slayer's in most situations; however, I can easily see going with FTW! in a favorable environment. I can also easily see an x/P support hero effectively using this to buff physicals on the team. The greedy player in me would have liked to see FTW! changed to the "next successful attack", as it does have a 16s duration, but that would likely make it too powerful. ~0:13:17 Regarding "Go for the Eyes!".... If not already stated in my original comments or elsewhere, I completely agree with your analysis regarding how this is invaluable option for energy management. While there will be exceptions, for my own bar it always comes down to GFTE!, Anthem of Envy, or "Watch Yourself!" (Tactics) for an adrenaline shout. GFTE! increases in value with the number of physicals on the team, Anthem the more physicals and/or attacking spirits on the team, and WY! is almost always useful. I will also add that GFTE! has definite value to a R/P running a Barrage/Volley spam, as all the hits keep this shout constantly fueled. Paired with a rit teammate adding (e.g.) Splinter Weapon and that ranger is really raining down death and destruction. A melee attacker would likely prefer "Fear Me!" (Tactics) due to a duration and other advantages. Assuming I'm not overlooking anything and ignoring the adrenaline elite shouts, these options being so limited is really a flaw in overall profession design in my view. ~0:16:35 Regarding "Help Me!".... As it is, I only see this skill as an "I'm in unexpected trouble, come save me!". If one needs to burn a slot for that, then you would be better served to rethink you entire team's bars and strategy. Justified if the strategy is for the paragon to tank, but how often is that? No, to have been truly useful, the skill should be more offensive themed. It is in Command, so don't help me survive, but help me do damage. The casting 50% faster buff is fine, but the additional buff shouldn't be health gain but longer durations or shortened recharges. For instance a support monk could cast Judge's Insight on you in 1s and it would either last 40s rather than 20s or recharge in 5s rather than 10s. The orders are untargeted, so nothing in the nec lines jump out; however, Sympathetic Visage (Illusion) could cast faster, etc. The double cast ele elites come to mind. Rits have weapon spells and other skills that target allies. As is trash. As it should have been? ~0:19:20 Regarding "Incoming!".... My thoughts on this are no different than those for "Fallback!" above. At 12 Leadership both have the same duration and health gain while moving, but Incoming! costs only 53, doesn't end on an attack, and most importantly burns your elite slot. Absent those odd missions/quests where you're team is mostly running somewhere or speed is crucial, I just don't see ever burning the elite slot for a skill that's mostly irrelevant after the start of the battle. If this had near or at 100% uptime to justify the elite slot, I would consider for the buff and energy gain but as it is.... ~0:22:52 Regarding "Make Haste!".... So for a 5e discount, one gets a single target "Fall Back!". Yes, MH! lasts twice as long, but either isn't going to last the duration on a charging melee attacker. I'd rather pay the 10e for FB!. MH! could have a place to help a kiting caster, but would one burn a slot for this contingency? Windborne Speed (Air Magic) does the same with a slightly shorter duration and doesn't end on attack, but can be removed. To see use, "Make Haste!" should have been an echo/refrain that doesn't end on attack for a buff that renews with additional shouts and chants. (You mentioned both Hasty Refrain, that I thought existed but couldn't remember, and Windborne Speed in your own analysis.) ~0:27:10 Regarding "Never Give Up!" and "Never Surrender!".... My main question regarding these are when does the AI trigger use? On an 8 man party, when 1 party member is below 75% health? 2 (25%) party members? 4 (50%) party members? Etc. Second, I trust that the AI won't trigger this due to minions or spirts. I think a 50% of the party below 75% health is a good trigger. Per Wiki, the +health regen continues even if the affected party member goes above the 75% health threshold. As for NGU!, I wouldn't just usually bring as a standard skill on a Command bar. I would really anticipate needing the energy shot vs, e-denial areas. In other words, this should be a specific counter to a threat and not an energy management skill on which to regularly rely. On the other hand, NS! has much more flexible uses. It is especially useful as healing relief vs. degen, but having 2 or more party members always below 75% health isn't uncommon during most any battle. While I don't bring on my own bar, NS! always gets a look to leverage more from the Command line when bringing a hero with "Stand Your Ground!".
Continued.... ~0:30:30 Regarding "Stand Your Ground!".... To recap and perhaps expand on my original comments on this crucial (in my view) skill, I will emphasize that SYG! will always be somewhere on my team when facing material amounts of armor respecting damage. At 12 Command that's potentially 17s of partywide +24 armor every 20s for 10e (gross). At 10 Command (i.e. x/P), it's still 15s. It can't be interrupted. It can't be removed. It can be used even if knocked down. Any charging melee likely won't need the armor buff but will get it anyway when they arrive. What other alternatives other than some rit spirits give that much return for 10e? It relieves your monks from having to heal and/or protect as much, which in turn conserves energy. I know of no better defensive skill in the game for the vast majority of situations. As you noted, the direct competitor to SYG! is "Watch Yourself!" (Tactics). I agree that WY! is a great skill; however, it's adrenaline based so it's likely not available at the very start of the battle. Also it has a shorter 10s duration, but if your warrior is getting enough adrenaline it can be maintained 100%. WY! does end after 10 incoming attacks, while SYG! has no such end trigger. At 12 Tactics WY! provides +21 armor scaling down to +18 at lvl 10, and weakness could scale it down even more. Weakness may shorten the duration of SYG! but not the armor buff. ~0:32:47 Regarding "We Shall Return!".... I don't understand your view on this skill for use in PvE. If you regularly need a partywide hard rez, then it would be far better to revisit your team strategy and tactics for that zone or mission. For the occasional hard rez need in battle, I would only trust a P/x or E/P to handle the 25e demands. The occasional post battle hard rez doesn't benefit from being partywide. In the end this means only equipping on a P/x or E/P to get any in battle benefit or equipping on any other x/P but disabling for manual control. I did check the stats at 0 Command, and 25% health and 5% energy isn't terrible. ~0:36:26 Regarding Anthem of Disruption.... If this had a shorter recharge (e.g. 10s rather than 15s), I would really like this one but it would likely be too powerful. I rarely run with more than 1 other physical, so usually just 2 rupts every 15s just isn't worth the slot. On the other hand, this affects allies so if I have attacking rit spirts and/or a Barrage/Volley ranger on the team, this becomes far more viable. Nevertheless, the 15s recharge and since it's a rare team that doesn't have mesmers who can handle interrupts faster and more precisely. ~0:43:23 Regarding Anthem of Guidance.... As usual, stopped the vid to provide some thoughts prior to hearing your analysis. I'm expecting you to astutely note that this elite does not scale with Command. Making the next attack skill unblockable for 10s every time the paragon can get 4 adrenaline just doesn't merit the elite slot. If it scaled to then next 1-x attacks then that would be something. As is it does provide an option for an adrenaline shout for energy management, but one would really not be able to find much use in another paragon elite to use AoG for any purpose. ~0:48:06 Regarding Anthem of Weariness.... To expand on my original comments and to offer some further defense of this skill... Recapping a bit, this effects all allies (i.e. includes attacking rit spirits), it nets you +1e on a full 8 man team at 12 Leadership, and works against Destroyers (which are immune to burning). Looking closely at the bigger paragon picture, most importantly it can trigger/renew your echoes every 10s on your physicals and perhaps on your casters if the echo has a decent duration. Contrast with it's closest competitor Anthem of Flame (Leadership), which can't be effectively used by an x/P, only affects party members, is likely only causing superfluous burning if that is your team strategy (of course that can also be said of weakness), and the burning has a short duration which may risk the effectiveness of conditional effects of follow-up skills. I just don't see where "Anthem of Flame is always better". Just remember, there is always value in having skills on your own bar that can almost always guarantee that the conditional effects of your other skills are met. Using either anthems right before (e.g.) Stunning Strike guarantees that the target will be dazed. You don't have to rely on your teammates to inflict a condition or hope that a condition doesn't expire or get cured in the middle of your spear throw. The required condition is applied at the time of the hit. ~0:50:14 Regarding Bladeturn Refrain.... I've got no defense for this skill. The only advantages I see over easily used alternatives are that it's unremovable and renews as an echo; however, even at 14 Command it offers only a 19% chance to block. That is irrelevant to me. Ignoring all of the blocking stances available (and there are many), how often will a full 8 man team not have room for the rit's Weapon of Warding (50% block), a Protection Prayers monk with all sorts of 50% block options, or an x/E with Ward Against Melee (admittedly ineffective vs. ranged attacks). Simply the low block percentage makes Bladeturn not worth the 5e much less the skill slot. If it blocked at 33%, I could see some use vs. assassins as then it could potentially block at least one of the standard lead, off-hand, dual attacks. ~0:53:01 Regarding Crippling Anthem.... As an adrenaline chant, I can see the advantages of the free energy return. I would likely only use with a attacking spirit spammer to keep opposing melee (especially) crippled. If this was an energy chant a Barrage ranger could cripple almost the entire opposing mob at the very start. Most likely the reason for it being adrenaline based. ~0:54:54 Regarding Godspeed.... Consider that dervs are almost always enchanted and sins are often enchanted. Now consider that Godspeed give the same 25% speed boost as the much beloved Onslaught (Wind Prayers). At 11 Command you have over 50% uptime, at 14 almost 66% uptime. Not my playstyle to outsource too much, but this is a way for a derv to outsource the speed buff from something like Onslaught to free the elite slot and handle the attack speed and adrenaline gain by other means. Note also that this affects all allies and doesn't end on attack or something silly.
Maybe it's just my play shortcomings, but I've always thought that some skills are best used by heroes rather than real players. Since heroes can see more than I can in real time, "Brace Yourself" falls into that hero use category. Would be interesting to see your ratings for player vs. hero use. As for "Can't Touch This!", while it's definitely situational (i.e. vs. touch skills you mentioned) it is definitely a top 5 rated skill when it's applicable. Very useful for a primary or secondary Paragon. I definitely agree with you regarding the value of "Never Surrender!" as a anti-pressure skill; however, I consider "Stand Your Ground!" invaluable. I often put on a hero running a paragon secondary. Those two together can really mitigate lots of damage. A rank 4 and 5 skill respectively. As for Anthem of Envy, note that it reads "allies" so I believe it also affects offensive Ritualist spirits. A 4-5 rank skill if you have a another physical attacker and a spirit spammer in your party. Anthem of Weariness is also a bit situational so I'd up to a 2 rank. Think non-fleshy foes and where burning (i.e. Anthem of Flame) is not reliable or available and you want to fuel your Spear of Fury and perhaps setup Stunning Strike. I've always thought the enchanted vs. not enchanted thing with paragons was that Motivation was designed to substitute for Monk Protection and to support Dervishes.
In general, a 2 rating is given to more situational skills such as "Can't Touch This!". There are definitely times when the skill is super useful (the Crystal Desert comes to mind), but it isn't a skill I think of as an auto-include on a skillbar, which is more what 4 and 5 ratings were for. As for "Brace Yourself!", I'm uncertain. I'd definitely have to try it on a hero to see if I find it effective in their hands. Even then, I still think a 2 is appropriate, as there are many places I wouldn't bring it. In general, if I want to counter knock downs, I prefer Ward of Stability. Some ratings do reflect the way heroes use skills. For example, I favor Healing Burst over Word of Healing because Heroes often like to top off health bars pretty aggressively, and thus I feel Healing Burst will typically be more effective for them to use. I should probably give "Stand Your Ground!" another try. My main point of hesitancy with it has been Heroes' tendency to kite a lot, which reduces the useful of the skill in theory. However, as I reflect on it, I think I'm overestimating their kiting reaction times, especially given how often they like to chill in a Meteor Shower... In other news, I just tested, and you're right that Anthem of Envy does work with spirits. This is completely unexpected, as I'm used to spirits not being affected by anything. This is now making me wonder what other chants might help spirits... As for Anthem of Weariness, I don't really see a reason to use it over Enfeebling Blood or (on a player) "You Are All Weaklings!". I can see what you're saying about the enchantments thing, but I do wish there was some thematic consistency, or at least that I got a sense of it. I do want to thank you for watching and leaving comments, by the way! I do appreciate it.
@@Sientir You said a lot here. Let me expand on CTT! some more. The Crystal D is surely a prime area (and it is large) for use, but there's also Istan with the touch necs and against the Modniir in the Far Shiverpeaks (to name just two more general areas). It also fuels echoes, etc. While certainly situational, it's far more than niche. There's also touch ele and sin skills, also the mes Blackout. I wasn't really questioning the 2 for "Brace Yourself!"; I was mostly using the skill to start the crap for a player's bar, pretty good on a hero's question. For instance, I would never put Chest Thumper on my bar since I wouldn't waste a slot on getting cracked armor applied, but I'm assuming (perhaps not reasonably) that a hero knows (e.g.) when the nec teammate has done so or when he's now sporting the appropriate weapon spell. (BTW, try using Holy Spear around the Jade Sea area for the spirits and watch it shine. Also, Healing Burst is also my go to healing elite, but I do so mostly for the area bonus heal. I assume it was designed to counter things like Splinter Weapon.) Perhaps I am overestimating the non-kite and you the kiting. My heroes sure seem to stand too long in Savannah Heat. Anyway, anything that mitigates against an early wipe from the first area hits from that ele boss is worth taking in my book. "SYG!" is likely meant to help verses the heavy hitting warriors and dervs in The Desolation. Also, you stated that you haven't done much HM, where it makes even more of a difference in my view. An immediate cheap partywide shout while your protection monk gets enchantments up or your resto rit gets spirits down. Spirits and minions (I think) are considered allies. Some spirits use attack skills, while minions never do. Not only does this improve A of Envy, but also look at A of Disruption and A of Weariness (vs lots of physicals). As stated elsewhere, I think Paragons are one of the worst professions for getting use out of a secondary due to no Leadership shields. For things like Spear of Fury, I want assurance that the condition is met, not relying on another teammate. I personally like to make sure I can use my skills when I need to. I could use "You Are All Weaklings!", but there will be no energy return and it takes up one of the 3 PvE skill slots. The recharge is longer as well. By the time my Spear of Fury recharges, AoW is usually ready too. Really, it's all about Spear of Fury and what is the best skill for the situation to fuel it. With your permission, I'll try to read your player name from the vid and FL it. Just let me know.
@@tarheel7406 I'm cool with you friends listing. You can use "Sientir of the Void" if you want a name that's more obviously me. :) As far as heroes vs. players, there are definitely some builds they are way better at. I have a standard BiP/Resto necro bar that I'm using these days, and I tried running it myself, and wow was it hard to run well-it requires paying attention to so many things at once! I can appreciate wanting to have your own skill for Spear of Fury. I do like Blazing Spear for that (just because it works against most enemies, though, of course Destroyers are immune, and I think some Ice Imps use Frigid Armor), but I can see using Anthem of Weariness in that case. I'll add that I wasn't aware of the spirit synergy with some anthems, because I simply assumed that wouldn't work because most things don't with spirits. As for secondaries on Paragons, I actually like making use of the energy they can generate with "Go for the Eyes!" to fuel a few choice spells. You do give up half of the armor from your shield that way (as far as I understand the way the attribute requirement works). I mention this mostly because I find the difference in our approach to be interesting. I should definitely look over more enemy builds to see how common touch skills are. I may have underestimated how often they get used.
@@Sientir Some final (maybe) comments on "Can't Touch This!". Sometimes there's a skill that isn't needed for most tasks or only has some marginal value to support other more valuable skills for a number of tasks, but it is the sole or clearly the best counter to an action that is common enough. I know of no direct counter to touch skills, certainly none as efficient as this one. I suppose I could review the protection prayers list and come up with some complicated collection of skills and tactics, but come on. This isn't a niche skill that one only uses for x mission/dungeon. And this isn't a case of only a fool would pick "Charge!' over "Incoming!". This is a perfect counter for skills that you will see in more than several areas of the game and can fuel echoes, etc. I think you gave "Never Give Up!" a 4 in this video, which seems far more situational to me, namely facing e-denial and/or party wipe insurance. I do use NGU, but far less than CTT. I guess my obsession here is that you are clearly GW experienced with valuable commentary, but we differ so much on this one. Also some more on "Stand Your Ground!" and "Never Surrender!", I use/abuse SYG all the time, NS far less so. The reason I return is to compare with the review of some rit spirits namely Shelter/Union and Recuperation. Clearly we have some similar skills coming from different angles, which I find interesting. Perhaps they don't actually play well with others, but I will not hesitate to bring that Shelter/Union pair and SYG. What I'm hoping is that SYG's increased armor is reducing damage to the team, which in turns reduces the health loss of the spirits so they last far longer. It sure seems to really make the team super hardy at the beginning of a fight, just when I need it most.
@@tarheel7406 Some of your comments regarding "Stand Your Ground!" have gotten me to try it lately, and I agree that it does help more than I was giving it credit for. I was thinking about how it doesn't help when the AI starts kiting, but as you pointed out, they can be kind of slow to do that. I may be thinking of touch skills as being less common than they are. That's something something I should research more. Some spots, like the Crystal Desert, are pretty obvious, but there are a lot of utility touch skills that get used. Does it help against the Starburst elementalists in Factions? I know it'll help against Throw Dirt...a number of Assassin skills, too. I think I've focused too much on Necromancer touch skills that some enemies overuse (hmm...Rot Wallows, I shouldn't forget them!), and as such, I'm overlooking a lot of other touch skills that get used. Thank you for pushing this point some.
After some time and further consideration, thought I'd create some new builds based on this series to break out of almost always using some slight variant of the same set of skills. Limitations are no PvE skills (so heroes can also use). I also prefer for elites only to be used by the applicable primary profession:
~0:00:29 Regarding "Brace Yourself!".... Per our original exchange, I tested how heroes use this, namely proactively or reactively. At best the test was inconclusive but I concluded that heroes use reactively (i.e. after the first knockdown). Tested with General Morgahn set to guard and fight against the Jotun with Ward of Stability disabled. He seemed to only use after the first knockdown. As everyone was affected, he seemed to always put on me. If only one party member was KD'd, I suspect he would put it on that party member. If more than one, could be random. Likely always preferring the party leader if they were one of those KD'd. This reactive behavior is a real shame.
~0:04:46 Regarding "Can't Touch This!".... To expand on my clear love affair with this skill and note here some advantages I believe are noted elsewhere in this series, advantages that aren't obvious on the surface. Since the shout lasts it's recharge, it can be abused to do two things. First, since it can be used outside of battle, one can fully charge all adrenaline skills with Signet of Aggression. 2 strikes every 5 seconds pre-battle and you're a force at spear throw #1. Second, it can help to keep Aggressive Refrain renewed between battles, though you will likely need two chants/shouts always ending. Done correctly, one will only need to use the echo as soon as you enter a zone. This trick can save a lot of time and energy, as Aggressive Refrain is 25e!
I will add that I do not know if the number of touch fails is per ally or for the entire party, but if this stops one touch spike it's worth a slot in my eyes.
~0:07:39 Regarding "Fallback!".... While I can see the appeal of the partywide speed buff for rushing through a mission or zone, I personally would never burn a slot (or perhaps a whole line) for this in hard mode. There are zones and/or quests that are runaway until mission/quest ends, but that doesn't make this a good overall skill. I do see value when your team needs to scatter out of a nuke, but this would be a poor choice against some, namely Churning Earth. As for game design, this should be scaled the same as "Stand Your Ground!", as they do opposite yet similar things. Don't move and get +24 armor or move and get 12 health gain; however, at 12 Command each costs 10e and has 20r but Fallback lasts only 8 seconds to SYG's 16. Just rarely worth the slot in my view.
~0:11:18 Regarding "Find Their Weakness!".... Reevaluating this one. On a primary paragon looking to inflict deep wound (in hard mode and late game where foes will likely have more starting health than you), the two contenders are FTW! and Slayer's Spear. FTW! costs net 8e, does +38 damage, deep wound lasts 16s, and has 15r. Slayer's costs 10e, does +21 damage, deep wound lasts 17s, and has 4r. The deep wound duration difference is immaterial. FTW! provides +38 damage every 15s, Slayers +21 every 4s (or +84 every 16s). FTW! inflicts deep wound unconditionally. Slayer's may find fewer foes to trigger the deep wound mid to late battle. FTW! can be used with Spear of Fury for an immediate adrenaline shot, but Spear is a PvE only skill so not applicable to heroes. If the FTW! attack is blocked, or you're blinded, or you're ruppted before/while getting it off, you have to wait 15s to try again. With Slayer's you can deal with the block/blind and try again in 4s. FTW! can easily be slotted in an (e.g.) E/P or N/P support build. Slayer's cannot. With all these considerations, I'd likely prefer Slayer's in most situations; however, I can easily see going with FTW! in a favorable environment. I can also easily see an x/P support hero effectively using this to buff physicals on the team. The greedy player in me would have liked to see FTW! changed to the "next successful attack", as it does have a 16s duration, but that would likely make it too powerful.
~0:13:17 Regarding "Go for the Eyes!".... If not already stated in my original comments or elsewhere, I completely agree with your analysis regarding how this is invaluable option for energy management. While there will be exceptions, for my own bar it always comes down to GFTE!, Anthem of Envy, or "Watch Yourself!" (Tactics) for an adrenaline shout. GFTE! increases in value with the number of physicals on the team, Anthem the more physicals and/or attacking spirits on the team, and WY! is almost always useful. I will also add that GFTE! has definite value to a R/P running a Barrage/Volley spam, as all the hits keep this shout constantly fueled. Paired with a rit teammate adding (e.g.) Splinter Weapon and that ranger is really raining down death and destruction. A melee attacker would likely prefer "Fear Me!" (Tactics) due to a duration and other advantages.
Assuming I'm not overlooking anything and ignoring the adrenaline elite shouts, these options being so limited is really a flaw in overall profession design in my view.
~0:16:35 Regarding "Help Me!".... As it is, I only see this skill as an "I'm in unexpected trouble, come save me!". If one needs to burn a slot for that, then you would be better served to rethink you entire team's bars and strategy. Justified if the strategy is for the paragon to tank, but how often is that? No, to have been truly useful, the skill should be more offensive themed. It is in Command, so don't help me survive, but help me do damage. The casting 50% faster buff is fine, but the additional buff shouldn't be health gain but longer durations or shortened recharges. For instance a support monk could cast Judge's Insight on you in 1s and it would either last 40s rather than 20s or recharge in 5s rather than 10s. The orders are untargeted, so nothing in the nec lines jump out; however, Sympathetic Visage (Illusion) could cast faster, etc. The double cast ele elites come to mind. Rits have weapon spells and other skills that target allies. As is trash. As it should have been?
~0:19:20 Regarding "Incoming!".... My thoughts on this are no different than those for "Fallback!" above. At 12 Leadership both have the same duration and health gain while moving, but Incoming! costs only 53, doesn't end on an attack, and most importantly burns your elite slot. Absent those odd missions/quests where you're team is mostly running somewhere or speed is crucial, I just don't see ever burning the elite slot for a skill that's mostly irrelevant after the start of the battle. If this had near or at 100% uptime to justify the elite slot, I would consider for the buff and energy gain but as it is....
~0:22:52 Regarding "Make Haste!".... So for a 5e discount, one gets a single target "Fall Back!". Yes, MH! lasts twice as long, but either isn't going to last the duration on a charging melee attacker. I'd rather pay the 10e for FB!. MH! could have a place to help a kiting caster, but would one burn a slot for this contingency? Windborne Speed (Air Magic) does the same with a slightly shorter duration and doesn't end on attack, but can be removed. To see use, "Make Haste!" should have been an echo/refrain that doesn't end on attack for a buff that renews with additional shouts and chants. (You mentioned both Hasty Refrain, that I thought existed but couldn't remember, and Windborne Speed in your own analysis.)
~0:27:10 Regarding "Never Give Up!" and "Never Surrender!".... My main question regarding these are when does the AI trigger use? On an 8 man party, when 1 party member is below 75% health? 2 (25%) party members? 4 (50%) party members? Etc. Second, I trust that the AI won't trigger this due to minions or spirts. I think a 50% of the party below 75% health is a good trigger. Per Wiki, the +health regen continues even if the affected party member goes above the 75% health threshold. As for NGU!, I wouldn't just usually bring as a standard skill on a Command bar. I would really anticipate needing the energy shot vs, e-denial areas. In other words, this should be a specific counter to a threat and not an energy management skill on which to regularly rely. On the other hand, NS! has much more flexible uses. It is especially useful as healing relief vs. degen, but having 2 or more party members always below 75% health isn't uncommon during most any battle. While I don't bring on my own bar, NS! always gets a look to leverage more from the Command line when bringing a hero with "Stand Your Ground!".
Continued....
~0:30:30 Regarding "Stand Your Ground!".... To recap and perhaps expand on my original comments on this crucial (in my view) skill, I will emphasize that SYG! will always be somewhere on my team when facing material amounts of armor respecting damage. At 12 Command that's potentially 17s of partywide +24 armor every 20s for 10e (gross). At 10 Command (i.e. x/P), it's still 15s. It can't be interrupted. It can't be removed. It can be used even if knocked down. Any charging melee likely won't need the armor buff but will get it anyway when they arrive. What other alternatives other than some rit spirits give that much return for 10e? It relieves your monks from having to heal and/or protect as much, which in turn conserves energy. I know of no better defensive skill in the game for the vast majority of situations.
As you noted, the direct competitor to SYG! is "Watch Yourself!" (Tactics). I agree that WY! is a great skill; however, it's adrenaline based so it's likely not available at the very start of the battle. Also it has a shorter 10s duration, but if your warrior is getting enough adrenaline it can be maintained 100%. WY! does end after 10 incoming attacks, while SYG! has no such end trigger. At 12 Tactics WY! provides +21 armor scaling down to +18 at lvl 10, and weakness could scale it down even more. Weakness may shorten the duration of SYG! but not the armor buff.
~0:32:47 Regarding "We Shall Return!".... I don't understand your view on this skill for use in PvE. If you regularly need a partywide hard rez, then it would be far better to revisit your team strategy and tactics for that zone or mission. For the occasional hard rez need in battle, I would only trust a P/x or E/P to handle the 25e demands. The occasional post battle hard rez doesn't benefit from being partywide. In the end this means only equipping on a P/x or E/P to get any in battle benefit or equipping on any other x/P but disabling for manual control. I did check the stats at 0 Command, and 25% health and 5% energy isn't terrible.
~0:36:26 Regarding Anthem of Disruption.... If this had a shorter recharge (e.g. 10s rather than 15s), I would really like this one but it would likely be too powerful. I rarely run with more than 1 other physical, so usually just 2 rupts every 15s just isn't worth the slot. On the other hand, this affects allies so if I have attacking rit spirts and/or a Barrage/Volley ranger on the team, this becomes far more viable. Nevertheless, the 15s recharge and since it's a rare team that doesn't have mesmers who can handle interrupts faster and more precisely.
~0:43:23 Regarding Anthem of Guidance.... As usual, stopped the vid to provide some thoughts prior to hearing your analysis. I'm expecting you to astutely note that this elite does not scale with Command. Making the next attack skill unblockable for 10s every time the paragon can get 4 adrenaline just doesn't merit the elite slot. If it scaled to then next 1-x attacks then that would be something. As is it does provide an option for an adrenaline shout for energy management, but one would really not be able to find much use in another paragon elite to use AoG for any purpose.
~0:48:06 Regarding Anthem of Weariness.... To expand on my original comments and to offer some further defense of this skill... Recapping a bit, this effects all allies (i.e. includes attacking rit spirits), it nets you +1e on a full 8 man team at 12 Leadership, and works against Destroyers (which are immune to burning). Looking closely at the bigger paragon picture, most importantly it can trigger/renew your echoes every 10s on your physicals and perhaps on your casters if the echo has a decent duration. Contrast with it's closest competitor Anthem of Flame (Leadership), which can't be effectively used by an x/P, only affects party members, is likely only causing superfluous burning if that is your team strategy (of course that can also be said of weakness), and the burning has a short duration which may risk the effectiveness of conditional effects of follow-up skills. I just don't see where "Anthem of Flame is always better". Just remember, there is always value in having skills on your own bar that can almost always guarantee that the conditional effects of your other skills are met. Using either anthems right before (e.g.) Stunning Strike guarantees that the target will be dazed. You don't have to rely on your teammates to inflict a condition or hope that a condition doesn't expire or get cured in the middle of your spear throw. The required condition is applied at the time of the hit.
~0:50:14 Regarding Bladeturn Refrain.... I've got no defense for this skill. The only advantages I see over easily used alternatives are that it's unremovable and renews as an echo; however, even at 14 Command it offers only a 19% chance to block. That is irrelevant to me. Ignoring all of the blocking stances available (and there are many), how often will a full 8 man team not have room for the rit's Weapon of Warding (50% block), a Protection Prayers monk with all sorts of 50% block options, or an x/E with Ward Against Melee (admittedly ineffective vs. ranged attacks). Simply the low block percentage makes Bladeturn not worth the 5e much less the skill slot. If it blocked at 33%, I could see some use vs. assassins as then it could potentially block at least one of the standard lead, off-hand, dual attacks.
~0:53:01 Regarding Crippling Anthem.... As an adrenaline chant, I can see the advantages of the free energy return. I would likely only use with a attacking spirit spammer to keep opposing melee (especially) crippled. If this was an energy chant a Barrage ranger could cripple almost the entire opposing mob at the very start. Most likely the reason for it being adrenaline based.
~0:54:54 Regarding Godspeed.... Consider that dervs are almost always enchanted and sins are often enchanted. Now consider that Godspeed give the same 25% speed boost as the much beloved Onslaught (Wind Prayers). At 11 Command you have over 50% uptime, at 14 almost 66% uptime. Not my playstyle to outsource too much, but this is a way for a derv to outsource the speed buff from something like Onslaught to free the elite slot and handle the attack speed and adrenaline gain by other means. Note also that this affects all allies and doesn't end on attack or something silly.
Maybe it's just my play shortcomings, but I've always thought that some skills are best used by heroes rather than real players. Since heroes can see more than I can in real time, "Brace Yourself" falls into that hero use category. Would be interesting to see your ratings for player vs. hero use. As for "Can't Touch This!", while it's definitely situational (i.e. vs. touch skills you mentioned) it is definitely a top 5 rated skill when it's applicable. Very useful for a primary or secondary Paragon.
I definitely agree with you regarding the value of "Never Surrender!" as a anti-pressure skill; however, I consider "Stand Your Ground!" invaluable. I often put on a hero running a paragon secondary. Those two together can really mitigate lots of damage. A rank 4 and 5 skill respectively.
As for Anthem of Envy, note that it reads "allies" so I believe it also affects offensive Ritualist spirits. A 4-5 rank skill if you have a another physical attacker and a spirit spammer in your party.
Anthem of Weariness is also a bit situational so I'd up to a 2 rank. Think non-fleshy foes and where burning (i.e. Anthem of Flame) is not reliable or available and you want to fuel your Spear of Fury and perhaps setup Stunning Strike.
I've always thought the enchanted vs. not enchanted thing with paragons was that Motivation was designed to substitute for Monk Protection and to support Dervishes.
In general, a 2 rating is given to more situational skills such as "Can't Touch This!". There are definitely times when the skill is super useful (the Crystal Desert comes to mind), but it isn't a skill I think of as an auto-include on a skillbar, which is more what 4 and 5 ratings were for.
As for "Brace Yourself!", I'm uncertain. I'd definitely have to try it on a hero to see if I find it effective in their hands. Even then, I still think a 2 is appropriate, as there are many places I wouldn't bring it. In general, if I want to counter knock downs, I prefer Ward of Stability.
Some ratings do reflect the way heroes use skills. For example, I favor Healing Burst over Word of Healing because Heroes often like to top off health bars pretty aggressively, and thus I feel Healing Burst will typically be more effective for them to use.
I should probably give "Stand Your Ground!" another try. My main point of hesitancy with it has been Heroes' tendency to kite a lot, which reduces the useful of the skill in theory. However, as I reflect on it, I think I'm overestimating their kiting reaction times, especially given how often they like to chill in a Meteor Shower...
In other news, I just tested, and you're right that Anthem of Envy does work with spirits. This is completely unexpected, as I'm used to spirits not being affected by anything. This is now making me wonder what other chants might help spirits...
As for Anthem of Weariness, I don't really see a reason to use it over Enfeebling Blood or (on a player) "You Are All Weaklings!".
I can see what you're saying about the enchantments thing, but I do wish there was some thematic consistency, or at least that I got a sense of it.
I do want to thank you for watching and leaving comments, by the way! I do appreciate it.
@@Sientir You said a lot here. Let me expand on CTT! some more. The Crystal D is surely a prime area (and it is large) for use, but there's also Istan with the touch necs and against the Modniir in the Far Shiverpeaks (to name just two more general areas). It also fuels echoes, etc. While certainly situational, it's far more than niche. There's also touch ele and sin skills, also the mes Blackout.
I wasn't really questioning the 2 for "Brace Yourself!"; I was mostly using the skill to start the crap for a player's bar, pretty good on a hero's question. For instance, I would never put Chest Thumper on my bar since I wouldn't waste a slot on getting cracked armor applied, but I'm assuming (perhaps not reasonably) that a hero knows (e.g.) when the nec teammate has done so or when he's now sporting the appropriate weapon spell. (BTW, try using Holy Spear around the Jade Sea area for the spirits and watch it shine. Also, Healing Burst is also my go to healing elite, but I do so mostly for the area bonus heal. I assume it was designed to counter things like Splinter Weapon.)
Perhaps I am overestimating the non-kite and you the kiting. My heroes sure seem to stand too long in Savannah Heat. Anyway, anything that mitigates against an early wipe from the first area hits from that ele boss is worth taking in my book. "SYG!" is likely meant to help verses the heavy hitting warriors and dervs in The Desolation. Also, you stated that you haven't done much HM, where it makes even more of a difference in my view. An immediate cheap partywide shout while your protection monk gets enchantments up or your resto rit gets spirits down.
Spirits and minions (I think) are considered allies. Some spirits use attack skills, while minions never do. Not only does this improve A of Envy, but also look at A of Disruption and A of Weariness (vs lots of physicals).
As stated elsewhere, I think Paragons are one of the worst professions for getting use out of a secondary due to no Leadership shields. For things like Spear of Fury, I want assurance that the condition is met, not relying on another teammate. I personally like to make sure I can use my skills when I need to. I could use "You Are All Weaklings!", but there will be no energy return and it takes up one of the 3 PvE skill slots. The recharge is longer as well. By the time my Spear of Fury recharges, AoW is usually ready too. Really, it's all about Spear of Fury and what is the best skill for the situation to fuel it.
With your permission, I'll try to read your player name from the vid and FL it. Just let me know.
@@tarheel7406 I'm cool with you friends listing. You can use "Sientir of the Void" if you want a name that's more obviously me. :)
As far as heroes vs. players, there are definitely some builds they are way better at. I have a standard BiP/Resto necro bar that I'm using these days, and I tried running it myself, and wow was it hard to run well-it requires paying attention to so many things at once!
I can appreciate wanting to have your own skill for Spear of Fury. I do like Blazing Spear for that (just because it works against most enemies, though, of course Destroyers are immune, and I think some Ice Imps use Frigid Armor), but I can see using Anthem of Weariness in that case.
I'll add that I wasn't aware of the spirit synergy with some anthems, because I simply assumed that wouldn't work because most things don't with spirits.
As for secondaries on Paragons, I actually like making use of the energy they can generate with "Go for the Eyes!" to fuel a few choice spells. You do give up half of the armor from your shield that way (as far as I understand the way the attribute requirement works).
I mention this mostly because I find the difference in our approach to be interesting.
I should definitely look over more enemy builds to see how common touch skills are. I may have underestimated how often they get used.
@@Sientir Some final (maybe) comments on "Can't Touch This!". Sometimes there's a skill that isn't needed for most tasks or only has some marginal value to support other more valuable skills for a number of tasks, but it is the sole or clearly the best counter to an action that is common enough. I know of no direct counter to touch skills, certainly none as efficient as this one. I suppose I could review the protection prayers list and come up with some complicated collection of skills and tactics, but come on. This isn't a niche skill that one only uses for x mission/dungeon. And this isn't a case of only a fool would pick "Charge!' over "Incoming!". This is a perfect counter for skills that you will see in more than several areas of the game and can fuel echoes, etc.
I think you gave "Never Give Up!" a 4 in this video, which seems far more situational to me, namely facing e-denial and/or party wipe insurance. I do use NGU, but far less than CTT. I guess my obsession here is that you are clearly GW experienced with valuable commentary, but we differ so much on this one.
Also some more on "Stand Your Ground!" and "Never Surrender!", I use/abuse SYG all the time, NS far less so. The reason I return is to compare with the review of some rit spirits namely Shelter/Union and Recuperation. Clearly we have some similar skills coming from different angles, which I find interesting. Perhaps they don't actually play well with others, but I will not hesitate to bring that Shelter/Union pair and SYG. What I'm hoping is that SYG's increased armor is reducing damage to the team, which in turns reduces the health loss of the spirits so they last far longer. It sure seems to really make the team super hardy at the beginning of a fight, just when I need it most.
@@tarheel7406 Some of your comments regarding "Stand Your Ground!" have gotten me to try it lately, and I agree that it does help more than I was giving it credit for. I was thinking about how it doesn't help when the AI starts kiting, but as you pointed out, they can be kind of slow to do that.
I may be thinking of touch skills as being less common than they are. That's something something I should research more. Some spots, like the Crystal Desert, are pretty obvious, but there are a lot of utility touch skills that get used. Does it help against the Starburst elementalists in Factions? I know it'll help against Throw Dirt...a number of Assassin skills, too.
I think I've focused too much on Necromancer touch skills that some enemies overuse (hmm...Rot Wallows, I shouldn't forget them!), and as such, I'm overlooking a lot of other touch skills that get used.
Thank you for pushing this point some.