Went to his video and left a comment because I've enjoyed his content quite a bit before, and he straight up shadow-banned it. My guess is that I was too accurate or too critical, hes still replying to new comments as we speak, and he's basically just bashing you guys and supporting anyone who does the same. It's downright obvious from his nearly split like to dislike ratio and his comment section not reflecting that that he or his team is deleting comments criticizing him. If you see this, please acknowledge, this is substantial in my opinion. When anyone claiming to be in favor of the truth and accuracy deletes comments criticizing their viewpoint, I think some legitimacy is drawn into question.
Same lol Sellsword is moderating his comments right now. I noticed my comment and many other comments disagreeing with him were getting deleted/unposted (you can see your comment but no one else can), while comments supporting him were staying up.
All the comments are like,"uhh yea idk why shad feels attacked or take this seriously such a loser". My men/women did u use any of the braincells making these comments, these channels are both doing fine with Shads view time being longer, it is Sellsword that is being butthurt that his content isnt getting attention and trying to start a beef to get attention XD. Sellsword is butthurt, Shad is just pointing that fact out, with pity even, suggesting him to find ways to enjoy the community.
Hey there mate. Appreciate my name drop 😄 I actually had never heard of this Sellsword youtuber before. By what I gathered from this video of yours, It does sound like a case of gatekeeping but to be 100% fair I’ll have to watch a couple of his videos to have a full idea of what he brings to the table. I always hope for reconciliation within our community. Just like I am still supporting you because I do not believe the accusations of bigotry and homophobia against you one bit, I am also not fully convinced that Matt has a problem with religion itself or conservative thought in general. All in all, It’s always nice to be able to agree to disagree and learn to coexist with people with different ideas. You keep being you.
I will never be convinced that Matt actually meant anything he said. In my honest belief, I think he’s had his job, reputation, personal information, or all 3 of those things threatened by people and then did that to try and protect himself and his family.
@@genghiskhan6809 Matt was already successful before he became IGN's dedicated sword guy... he had no reason to shit on Shad like that. His livelihood was in no danger. He just saw a threat to his new juicy sponsorship and decided to slander Shad and burn the bridge. I had been watching Matt for years but he lost all my respect.
@@SkeletonXinsame to be honest. I watched him for a very long time and then along came this drama from him and he made up lies and accusation about shad and publicly denounced him. For a man who championed context and factual evidence in his videos, he lost all my respect after all that.
There is a TH-cam channel with a Japanese sword master who recently did a video about the longsword. He was handed one and asked what he thought about it. At no point did he talk about the katana being better or trash talk the weapon. Instead he immediately began experimenting to see what advantages it would give him in a duel. That’s the difference with a master and a purist. A master will always look for the pros and cons of a weapon or style, take what he or she can use and discard what doesn’t work. Would a double sword be practical or work in a battlefield environment, who knows? But a master would have picked it up and said “what does this allow me to do that I normally couldn’t”.
Seki Sensei I remember that. He never held one before and immediately after getting used to the blade and incorporating his style he sees how the pomel is an interesting addition and can be used to quick bash someone on draw. The hand guards flaws on the quick draw for tight movement but also how versatile it is once already drawn.
I can't say I've always been happy with the direction this channel is gone, I preferred the deep dives into historical content to create an idea of how castles looked and stuff. However, I wouldn't ever say the quality of content on this channel has dropped or had become less reliable in any way. You all just decided to explore another part of your nerdhood, and that's totally fine.
@@jasoncp3257I wouldn't put it in terms of quality, but I do miss his older scripted video style. These days it seems rather impromptu with lots of banter, and less "dense" in terms of insight
@@jasoncp3257Thats a flase statement. Quality is an objective standard and objectively Shads video are made to a very high quality standard. He edits in the relevant clips at relevant times, all of his shots are set up well and lit well, theres no major flubs or mess up left in, the videos are succint and stay on topic, he has very good ad breaks that try to do more then just cut and read a script. He puts a lot of time and money into costuming and set decorations and laying out his space to make sure that the video is enjoyable to watch, he builds analogs for fantasy items so he has somthing to handle and feel to make the conclusions he cines to more concrete. I could really go on and on. All of this could be done to a much lower quality stabdard but because Shad takes pride in his work he puts in a ton of effort, and it makes for good quality videos. You may not like the recent content as much but that doesn't mean its lower quality.
@@jasoncp3257 It has gone significantly up in quality, *significantly* . The fact you may not like the specific themes talked about doesn't mean the quality has dropped.
I practice, study and teach HEMA as a work, I have a channel exclusively about the subject since seven years and, being a niche topic (approached in an in-depth technical and tactical way) my channel reflects it. The motivation why there are so much videos about weird subjects is simply because more people can enjoy it by comprehending the subject. If I do a video on “How to land a second intention sword grab from a feinted thrust on the outside” only a few thousand people will find it enjoyable, maybe ten thousand if I’m lucky and my thumbnail is not so shitty as usual. So I’m all honesty, it’s all about the subject and the audience.
Well you can at least be confident that I’d watch a video titled “how to land a second intention sword grab from a feinted thrust on the outside”. You’ve definitely taken a place in my favorite sword channels!
I was part of a medieval recreationist group for a short time, and while I enjoyed learning about historically correct facets of medieval gear and heraldry and such I developed a great distaste for the overly serious "No, you can't do that, it's WRONG!" attitude.
They're called gatekeepers and you have them in every scene. My wife went to a metal festival and people told her that the band she was most excited for wasn't 'real metal'. I've had dudes in the climbing gym tell me I'm not a real climber because my shoes were 'only' 1 twothirds size smaller than my normal shoes.
@suckieduckie That's not gate keeping. The climbers wet snobs. The metal guy might have a valid point but is a jerk about it. Gate keeping is saying, "hey, you can join us but if you can't make a fuss and try to change our hobby. Enjoy it for what it is."
@@lanesmith1465that’s not gate-keeping my friend, that’s a normal fandom… The point of the “gate-keeping” metaphor is that you’re literally barring or discouraging people from participating in your fandom.
@@The.Nasty. Any fandom needs a healthy amount of gatekeeing. Sometimes, you do have to tell people they aren't allowed to join the hobby. You don't have to look any farther than D&D and how it's changed since the Tumblr crowd came in. Now the classic tropes, terms, and setting lore of D&D and broader fantasy are now "problematic."
@@lanesmith1465 my point is your definition of gate keeping is wrong. I’d guess because you’re okay with gate keeping… Call a spade a spade, don’t hide behind flowery interpretations.
This was actually my problem with a lot of Swordtubers in the 2010s. It used to be the cool thing to point out when fantasy stuff doesn’t work, and in demonstrations you could tell they weren’t actually giving it a chance because they are going in expecting it to fail. I much prefer content that tries to focus on how you could make it work, It’s a lot more fun to watch and satisfying. Like yeah we get it’s more awkward and isn’t fully efficient, but it takes more creativity to try and work around that than to just brush it off as unrealistic.
True, Shad was guilty of that himself, I remember when he bashed the double bladed sword, funnily with similar arguments like Daniel brought up. I appreciate the growth of his experiences and his views, that makes it much more enjoyable to watch
@@Chraan yeah, and a lot of the ones mentioned in this video (like Skallagrim and LindyBeige) did a lot of that style of “debunking fantasy” content, which there’s nothing wrong with; I just think it’s way more fun to to go “but can we make it work?” Than it is to go “nah, fantasy stupid, if it’s not historical it’s not worth trying.” A lot of Shad’s content these days is focused on making it work and I think his content has never been better and more creative because of it.
@@Duckman_Drake Finally! Someone like you man, I agree with absolutely everything you said. I know fiction is fiction, don't get me wrong, I'm not 6, but I find it way more intriguing to search for ways in which we can make fictional things work. Essentially, bridging the gap between fantasy and reality, and redefining what's possible. Let's Go! 😁💪🏼🔥...
@@MiguelMedV when I was in high school I took an organic biology class and when the teacher asked each student why we took the class I straight up said in front of the whole class "learning science will make my fictional stories I create more interesting" Every fiction will of course have some level of a suspension of disbelief but if it's not grounded in SOMETHING and your answer is "it just is" then there's nothing interesting. One of the things I've created from using learning things back when I was in high school was a world that instead of a normal ozone layer that absorbed and dispersed the energy harmlessly it converted the stellar energy into magical energy making it so everything on the planet absorbs high amounts of magic. It's the difference between saying "he's super powerful with magic because he was born that way and he's crazy cause it's more fun that way" and "He's super powerful with magic cause he was born on a planet that it's atmosphere converts the energy of stars into magical energy and has 6 stars around it to maximize the effect. That's also has delusions of grandeur cause it's common for the young of his people to have a mana sickness with more magic in their body then they can properly handle while young" One of them feels like a childish power fantasy while the other has grounding in SOMETHING even though it's clearly not real. It really annoys me when people insist everything MUST have total realism...... sorry about the rant haha
I clicked this video thinking it’s portably just drama, but now that I have watched it, I think it contains a lot of very well made arguments, valid points and well explained counterpoints. I am happy to see that you discuss matters in a very adult way, and that you get to the points you have without raising your voice. I find the video quite entertaining and informative. Thank you Shad.
An hour long rant as a result from an untargeted 9 minute video? Theres nothing "adult" about this crap... shad saw that guys video and decided to take it as a personal attack... hes punching down on a smaller channel while sicking a mob of his followers on the faggy "sellsword" its extremely childish.
Heaven forbid a man should raise his voice in defense of himself. These days, if you show any emotion angrier than disappointment, you're considered a villain. What a world we live in.
Yeah, I assumed the same at first but I also ended up concluding that it's been made clear here that Sellsword has a major ego problem and is starting to cross some serious lines of decorum . To be fair though I've seen a lot of young men behave that way and eventually mature out of it (myself included to be honest), in that sense David is fortunate that Shad is choosing to calmly address the issue and not retaliate with more personal attacks. Hopefully he'll take advantage of this to learn, grow and be a better member of the community.
If you came here expecting drama instead of reasoned and civil discourse, then you clearly don't know Shad very well. This video is pretty par for the course whenever he becomes the target of thoughtless or insincere criticism. When he receives thoughtful criticism with valid points, he accepts it with grace and tries to address the issues and improve. Truly the mark of a man of honor and integrity. Anyway, welcome to the channel! If you appreciated the approach in this video, I think you'll enjoy yourself here.
Dear Shad, I would like to expand on the part about overhead thrust and blocking the weapon. You guys correctly noticed that david used short handle. And you mentioned that you could fight with this weapon like polarm. But then you didn't underline one very important difference. Using HEMA weapons almost never require changing the grip. But with polearm you do that constantly! If you don't, you get results that David got. Changing the grip is key for proper use and bit of inpredictability.
I was thinking the same thing. Even with a short grip that they were using, you could adapt longsword techniques to bypass a static block like that and strike with the other blade. They way they did the test was like when Aikido teachers show how to counter punches. Yeah, it works, but only if your opponent is an incompetent moron.
@@kolbywilliams7234 ironic those two being incompetent is a requirement and basis for the belief that shad and others are incompetent. Even more ironic that they literally went out of their way to make a "bad" version of a 2 handed blade, and then claimed it "couldn't thrust" when it is probably the only thing it could do well. Even more so, the fact the thrust was the best part of the weapon in the real spars.
@@eon2330 I don’t think you know what ironic means. You should really look up the definition to words that you think will make you sound smart before you use them. When you use them incorrectly, it has the opposite effect. My point is that they were being too accommodating in the test, not that they were genuinely incompetent, so on top of learning what irony means, you should also learn how to read. Without proper resistance, you don’t get results that are reflective of reality. So just like in martial arts, if you just let someone do whatever they want, or limit yourself in possible ways to respond to a threat, you aren’t really testing a technique. All you’re doing in that situation is confirming your own bias. That’s essentially what was happening here in the video because they acted like changing their grip was practically impossible when it wasn’t.
one thing I've learned as a military vet and martial artist, you can have all formal training in the world, all the manuals, but at the end of the day no amount of skill and time is gonna stop a novice from being just as dangerous when it comes to melee. At our club we had a saying "the new guy is more dangerous than the veteran cause you dont know what they will do." That said, just because its a double bladed sword doesnt mean you have to always use it as a sword, my buddy who is the biggest chrono cross fan ever in my opinion loves double bladed swords because of the Swallow weapon in that game, and he notoriously at tourneys will vault backwards from a bind, use the hand on the back grip, and thrust 2/3's the lenght of the weapon right into the target he just disengaged from. Another move he loves to do which makes the HEMA boys so angry is he will literally hold it like he about to break a rack of pool balls, then when they slap it away because of the sheer amount of force he put into said thrust, jerk it into a vertical overhand cut and just smash right through any attempt at a block/parry and even in protective gear having that double handed blade with all that leverage slam into ya shoulder/ collarbone sucks. and I love how salty they get when they tell him "well thats not a historical move!" and he will go "last i checked if we were trying to kill each other, your not going home tonight."
i also think that when you are in the heat of the "battle" how much training are you going to remember and properly execute. the blood is pumping, adrenaline dumping.
Also when people do it in full armor its funny that it normally ends in a wrestling match and the man who can get under his opponent and onto the ground is the winner.
@@als3022 that too, Shad has done a pretty good job with his armor videos of proving that point, blades against proper armor over gambeson dont do well at all, and its the blunt weapon swung hard or who can beat the other dude bare handed into concussion soup during a wrestling match.
Y'know, I've kind of been falling off watching Shadiversity lately. Just time and topics that dont specifically interest me, I suppose, but watching this reminds me of why I love you guys. I have so much respect for how you guys handle criticism, and it's actually helped shape my own techniques and practices when criticizing or thinking critically. The way you guys do stuff means something to the little guys like me. And you should know it.
Look again. Shads entire approach to dealing with criticism is "nuh uh, I'm a professional, let me list all the reasons I'm right." Shad Jones, professional swordsman, professional writer, professional artist that's just as good as is brother....🙄
You know Sensei Seth? He’s a guy that’s been doing karate for his whole life. He doesn’t do boxing, fencing, or kung fu. Yet his videos on the different styles he’s learning for the first time are informative. Are there TH-camrs better at explaining these styles than Seth? Yes. Doesn’t make him a bad source of information though
Yes but the difference here is Seth is an experienced martial artist who is actively learning new martial arts. That’s not what Shad does. Shad just does experiments for fun.
@@lustrazor44Shad does a lot more than just do experiments for fun, you just haven't bothered to look beyond the few videos you browsed before coming to the comments to argue.
@@shocktnche doesn’t have a 10 year base in martial arts before said experimentation . Seth us a karate teacher learning other martial arts. He had to get good enough to teach karate to do that? Does it make sense?
I like the balance you all strike between historical accuracy, practical application, and fantasy fun. It’s what makes your channel dynamic and interesting. And I appreciate that you understand that written primary sources are important, but not the whole story. As a lover of the Middle Ages, whenever anyone accepts only written sources I squirm. There is SO much about the Middle Ages we cannot know from the surviving written sources. That’s why I love people like Jason Kingsley who take what information we have, apply regular human reasoning, and then go test a theory to see what knowledge he can glean. And you all do that often, too. It’s my favorite kind of content! And I’ve never felt like you weren’t upfront and honest about whatever test you were conducting at the time. Any additional caveats or disclaimers and we would enter the realm of extreme tedium. Haha, but, oh goodness. Nothing like a young fellow accuses more seasoned men of not having the proper experience. That’s a classic. 😂
As a former active duty soldier, the saying "If you don't do the art, you cannot talk about how to do the art..." makes me facepalm. I like to watch quite a few content creators in the Sword Community, and they all bring something to the table, either through practice, testing, and application, or various degrees of historical references. They are all valid. I also watch many content creators in the Gun Community such as Garand Thumb, Brandon Herrera, Demolition Ranch, and others. Who do literally the same things with firearms as the Community of the Sword does with medieval weaponry. Sometimes things get silly, sometimes things get ridiculous. But it is entertainment. Entertainment that allows us to learn something new. SellswordArts needs to focus on the content he wants to make. Not focus on the view counts of others. Jealousy and Envy are not good emotions to foster.
And many of the gun toober guys are very very close. And none of them (outside Paul Harrel) say things are stupid or not worthy of hearing out. Paul’s ire is directed not towards the fellow gun tube community, but at idiots at the range who think they know more than they do and ultimately become unsafe
Amen. I like David's content a lot but, anymore, I get a level of arrogance that usually comes with unironically posting a video titled "How to counter a lack of skill" after getting beaten soundly by a non-practitioner. Not like he'd be too dead to make excuses in a real swordfight😂😂
This is one of the reasons I respect you so much. You respond to criticism only when you feel it necessary, you don't shy away from politics but don't shove it down people's throats(this goes for religion too) and always aims for a dialogue of professional respect for everyone's ideas. It's great and I wish we see more of it in the world.
i dont like religion and politics being injected in to videos that arent religious or political, JoergeSprave went a bit pro ukraine in a video which annoyed a lot of people, and some survivalist videos go very right wing and pro trump, the Knightswatch channel gets a bit religious and political and honestly i dont watch any more, but im very glad Shad keeps his religion and politics out of Shadiversity for the most part.....
@@neoaliphantAll of this is why I still keep a sub to Shadiversity and watch a decent number of the videos, but steer clear of Knights Watch. He and I have, shall we say, *very* different political views, but swords and machinations are something I can get behind!
@@TheKazragore and he's not the kind of guy to shame you for your beliefs. That's really the thing that makes him a good guy despite my own political differences with him.
If you've never slain a man in real life sword combat, then you aren't allowed to talk about the effectiveness of swords! Come on, Shad, we all know this! /s
@@aceambling7685I remember when the corporate news said it's dangerous to get our information from anywhere else because muh democracy. I remember Brian stelter the little man with the high voice and his desperate rants about fake news. 😅 There's more similarity between sellsword arts and Brian stelter than there is between sellsword arts and Musashi.
@@jonathanfisher9312 whoever wins or loses it’s still a good way to not only get a ton of views from your community but also set aside beef that really wasn’t too serious to begin with, not only that but getting to know someone that shares the same interests as you
@@jonathanfisher9312 I just want to add some nuance to that as shown in this video, Shad DOES fence, but he does not: -fences as intensively -participates in competitive field -follow strictly the HEMA treaties BUT, unless sellswordArts means that only experts of HEMA get to talk (professionals I mean), then it's even worse than what Shad was criticizing (which I don't think Sell meant to say). Sellsword claiming he doesn't fence is either misinformation from him or you only count if you do it like HE wants you to. The reason why Shad would probably lose is that he's less skilled in pure HEMA (which is the only thing that matters in a HEMA duel) and in much worse shape (older, health issues, fatter, etc.)
Someone who is intentionally taking bits and pieces that prove their point and not using whole videos is someone who is dishonest and will not accept any challenges or whatever because they know that they are likely to lose. I am not going to sit here and watch an hour-long video. I came here from sellsword arts, so unless someone can provide me time stamps that show this guy is doing different things from what sellsword arts claims he is doing, this is the sum total comments I will leave on this channel because I am not going interact with people who lie so blatantly
ah yes, because Sellswords have been so well known for their honor and honesty. No one has ever had criticisms for mercenaries. (That's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, not hostile.)
....what would that accomplish? You would probably win, and we'd both have wasted time, it would have no effect on the degree of truth found in the above statement. @@t2av159
Something I'd like to point out is that he's quite clearly stating in his video that anyone who doesn't practice the art *of fencing* shouldn't talk about swordplay. (note at 15:20 in this video, where the clip of Sellsword has him saying "we're going to look at it from the viewpoint of a fencer- people who actually do this, and fight with these things." ) There's just one teensy little glaring flaw with that statement: _Fencing isn't the only form of swordplay._ Kendo is a Japanese martial art known for using bamboo swords for sparring. Does Japanese swordplay not count as swordplay for him? Heck, is HEMA (Historic European Martial Arts) not a form of swordplay? (Modern fencing is _very_ different from the fencing depicted in the oldest surviving manuscripts describing fencing, so HEMA is definitely not just a subset of fencing.) Chinese swordsmanship is also quite separate from fencing... Does it not count as swordsmanship due to not being fencing? For that matter, Africa, India, Arabia, Turkey, and countless other parts of the world also have distinctive forms of swordplay that are completely separate from fencing. Fencing is _one_ specific combat sport. It is nowhere _near_ encompassing the entirety of the concept of swordsmanship. It's a drop of water in an entire lake of information. His blatant attempts to tell non-fencers to not talk about swordsmanship is not only laughably self-assured, cocky, and prideful, but _disturbingly_ naïve at _best,_ and an actively malicious attack on the swordsmanship community at worst.
I'm not going to defend his viewpoints, but I do think it might be relevant to mention that it's become very common in modern sword and HEMA communities to call any swordsman a "fencer", not just people who perform the combat sport that those people then differentiate as "modern fencing". I definitely agree with your comment, though I think he was referring to the "fencer" as a "classical fencer", who actively practices with a sword to learn historical swordsmanship.
I remember a loooooong time ago, I think it was Skallagrim, who was talking about Gatekeeping in the community. In this video (it may be Lindy, or even yours! I can't recall, honestly) the argument went that there's a sections in the "HEMA" community (the term was used to broadly describe the sword fighting community, not specifically HEMA) only consider people to be "real" swordsman if they're using real, full-tang, steel swords. The creator didn't name names, and they didn't even imply they were content creators, nor did they say these people didn't know what they were talking about. This was years ago. Probably even a decade by now? It feels like another life at this point, but it was such a strange thing for me to grasp. Swordtube is a comparatively small community. Sure, Shad's got 1.7~ million subs (at time of writing). But that's barely a fraction of people on the planet, even on the internet -- so, you would imagine, when you're working within such a niche realm of interest, that espousing an opinion, forming a rhetoric, that invalidates or disparages methods exploring that niche would be the very last thing you'd be doing. Like, I could appreciate the sentiment of "oh this is a weird nerdy niche, we should take and present this seriously to avoid mockery of the hobby", it's something Shad's touched on in his Mall Ninja videos, with the apex cringelord weapons. That there is a stage of this where you are vulnerable to being super fucking cringe, Naruto Running around with arm blades designed like sharks... but also that that's *ok* to go through. As long as your interest matures alongside you, there's nothing wrong with having that point in your life where you bought an 800$ katana-scythe at your local strip mall, off the wall of a Hot Topic, because *everyone* has an entry point. For some people it's mall ninja-dom, for some it's anime, for some it's larping or lord of the rings or star wars or reenactments or *whatever.* Now, some odd years later, Sellsword's gone mask off. He's given me the full context for a video that never even remotely implicated him, by just being exactly the kind of alienating presence that video was calling out. I got into fencing as a sport because I saw Kenshin as a kid, and I had a friend was into fencing and told me sword fighting was totally something you could do IRL, and he got into fencing because of *The Princess Diaries* and his master was into fencing because of *Highlander.* I got into Kendo after 3 years of Fencing when I learned katana fighting and rapier fighting as a matter of martial sport were academically different. I spent my entire high school years doing fencing, kendo, dungeons and dragon, anime club, and theatre -- over a summer me and some friends took some "Lightsaber Dueling" courses in Boston (which really just amounted to learning the choreography from the films). I was fighting with swords well into my adult life as a fun distraction -- my GATE WAY to it being pop culture. Because in *ALL* this time I've spent, not a *SINGLE* person I have ever met who practices this stuff, even at the professional level, people who wanted to go OLYPIC with their aspirations, ever got into this because they wanted to treat this swordstuff like it's real life, like other avenues of study were invalid just because they were "ridiculous". The only people I knew who did that, were masters who were in deep financial competition with other masters, who *didnt* hold those values, and *those* masters tended to be miserable people, losing heaps of business to masters who were more than happy to embrace people who wanted to do anime shit. It's almost as if being exclusionary within a niche isn't healthy for that niche, both in personal profitability, and for the community as a whole.
I am a nerd, I love nerd content, I don’t understand why people are so up tight about something that is clearly done for fun. Most people got into this stuff like you said by watching a movie, or anime that made them want to learn more.
I'd have to go and watch his actual video's but from his clips Sellsword doesn't strike me as fitting a lot of his own criteria. Yes, they are holding "real" swords, but the way they are holding them and using them in some of those examples doesn't feel all that real. Partly because they look like they are afraid of hurting themselves or each other. And certain of his movements look like sloppy imitations to a few Fencer's and other kinds of sword fighters that i've watched. Like perhaps he's either new to it or on the lower end of things. But then if he is entirely HEMA focused and HEMA has the problem that it's entirely wrapped up in rather rigid institutional History of a sort. Meaning that it will not deviate at all from these training manuals, most of which are meant for bringing in lower or no skill individuals and give them some skill rather than to be primarily used and adapted by high skilled users. Then maybe that is not surprising. An Example that just sticks out to me is one of the first ones that Shad actually goes into. Changing the length of the grip would not matter. Yet historically, Widenening, thinninging, lengthening, and shortening the grip are ways that swords were changed to change their usability and combat options when using that weapon. So saying his short grip is completely the same with the same capability as Shad's is complete garbage. This is something that screams less understanding and practical skill and more imitation.
22:33 Miyamoto Musashi one of the greatest swordsmen in history fought in a very unconventional way that made other samurai of the time extremely angry and often extremely dead! So I don’t think you can criticise someone for haven’t an unconventional technique in fighting arts. Keep up the good work Shad and gang. 👍🏻
@@theKashConnoisseur But was Musashi a practitioner of the art of the paddle? It sounds like he might not be an expert I should listen to base more on that and less on that he's long passed. 🤣🤣🤣 We can at least learn from Sasaki Kojiro. Never bring a sword to a paddle fight.
Actually I too noticed that a lot of shad's recent vids are just talking and less uhh quality? than before? But im just a regular viewer not paying anything hahahaa.
@@the-core-experience Shad's videos have always mostly been talking, I don't know what you mean with "quality". If anything practice tests have highly increased over the years, if that is what you mean with quality.
@@8ligh7 No, no, talking is talking, testing is testing, the drop in quality that i meant is more talking than testing, imo ofc. I didn't subscribe to anything where he might had exclusive stuffs. I also had watched him when he did the old armor reviews thing so I get that he likes to talk.
@@Teutonic__Knight I like both, historical stuff is cool and realistic, fantasy stuff is unrealistic but thats part of what makes it cool. I mean Warhammers chainsaw sword in reality wouldn't really work very well, but its a sword and a chainsaw combined, thats freaking awesome.
I don't agree with Shad on quite a few personal things, but when it comes to stating historical facts or sharing results from testing they are actually physically doing....you can't discredit them or the work and knowledge they share. Not every good teacher has flawless hands-on experience with their subject, just the appropriate knowledge to discuss it.
it's also just a bad idea to hold that standard as you inevitably will make a mistake so maybe don't word it like hari kiri is only reasonable recourse
It's not about who Shad is, just that his methodology has been pretty consistently lacking for achieving those results. As far as tests are concerned his channel peaked early with his videos on the viability of shooting a bow with with a Mediterranean Draw and an arrow of rhe outside of the bow. Everything else has been pretty lackluster as far as contributing to the understanding of "medieval" weaponry.
I love that you guys make videos on weapons from movies, games, anime, etc. I’m a writer, so it is SUPER helpful to see and know how many of these fictional type weapons would or wouldn’t work. The practicality behind them, benefits, downsides, everything you guys discuss really helps me as I craft together my own characters weapons and gear. Thanks for all your work guys! I can’t wait to see what you have planned next!! 😁
I love the idea he's presenting. By saying if you don't do it, you can't talk about it, he's saying that no matter how much research and time you put into understanding something, you shouldn't talk about it. He's essentially making the case that no Historian should ever talk about History, since we haven't done the things we talk about 90% of the time. Which is ironic, since its mostly historians keeping the older forms of swordsmanship alive by preserving and analyzing old manuals, manuscripts, paintings etc. His entire thing wouldn't exist without the people who talk about but don't do the thing
Swords are entertainment. This is the modern age. No one relies on a sword to survive their day. It's no different than discussing any other hobby topic. Getting bent out of shape and criticizing each other just comes off as snobbish. Always love you Shad.
yup. I've been given shit by hema practitioners because I picked up olimpic fencing. hema isn't the "superior" form of swordmanship, it's just a sport. it's like harping about how tennis is superior to table tennis.
@@eugenio5774and really important thing in my opinion is that every single sport is unique. You can not compare sports categories if they have the same "props" in it. Hema can not be compared to olympic fencing the same way football/soccer can not be compared to volleyball. Yes, both have swords in it, yes, both have balls in it, buts its totally different and incomparable
Well, Sellsword is a shilib and will use any avenue of attack he can to take a shot at his ideological adversary, no matter how underhanded and hypocritical it is. And his fellow shilibs will look the other way and back him up. The shilib doesn't have honor and will do anything to win. Anything.
It's sad to see someone attack intellectual curiosity on a topic where *most* of the authoritative knowledge has been lost to time, especially someone with such a narrow scope of expertise. It's like a semi-pro target archer trying to invalidate all of the experimentation that went into speed shooting.
When attending traing in Ninjutsu (Bujinkan-Style) we were always open to learn anything new that we possibly could. So even when a white belt discovered a new perspective or mechanic of a technique the person was brought in front of everyone to teach us. That way I learned a lot better. I find this a particulary unique way to learn the art. It is more humble and apreciative to others. I like this more than listening only to master alone, because even our master admitted to have learned something new in some cases. People WHO believe that a master knows everything about his stuff is absolutely wrong about humans and even the world, in my opinion.
@@guywholikesheelies3231No. In-fact, he openly admits when he is wrong in multiple videos, some videos fully dedicated to when he was mistaken. Edit: spelling
He also did have a smugness to him that I had to learn how to swallow. That and he's not quite as big shit as he thinks. He has a tendency to go after low-hanging fruit. Actually, given his height, that makes sense.
@@guywholikesheelies3231 , no, Shad has never done so. He has never claimed that he is the "person who has the sole or absolute power of judging or determining". (See the Dictionary definition of "arbiter".) Shad has held strong opinions, backed up by logic, real-time tests, and historical facts (as appropriate). There is a difference between stating and supporting an opinion, and telling others, "HERE'S TO WHOM YOU SHOULD, OR SHOULD NOT, LISTEN". Shad has never held himself or his channel up as the sole determinants of truth.
It was actually MatPat's video that got me into swords and Medieval combat. I wanted to see just how much of what he said was right and found Skalligrim and it was just downhill from there!
Using pop culture as a base to build off or as away to get people interested in something is so common in nearly every field because it works and it's fun
pop means popular, that is a momentary snapshot of the traction of something and still is subject to its market share compared to the competition and their traction. case in point: star wars lololol some people create pop culture because they happen to be the tastemaker, kind of hard to accuse those for riding on pop culture they created lol
Honestly could watch him walk in circles for at least an hour. It is like walking down the street with a friend and having a chat. This is actually a cool content idea. Have a background set built in a circle, and just have someone talk and walk circles around the camera.
Jealousy is toxic. Thankfully it has been largely absent among the community of the sword. I think a lot of that goes out to how Shad and Skall and, in the earlier days, Matt Easton, handled interpersonal conflict and debate. I hope that the community continues to be a place where everyone is welcome to nerd out about swords.
@@shocktnc I don´t know him, but from that short clip I saw some similarities with some people from our community. Very knowledgable, but also with a huge ego
Your comments about criticizing without naming names are spot on and true in any industry or social network. Being 'nice' by being coy and making allusions while refusing to give specific names is a cowardly act of creating plausible deniability by muddying the waters which only sows confusion and strife within the network. Anyone that did it would be called out and distrusted going forward.
@@TonyGonzales2just put of curiosity what happened. Ive been out of the loop for some time with shad and the inly major drama ive seen him in has been about the side of the bow you draw on.
I've followed this guy for a few months now, and the instant i saw that video i saw this coming. He's always been pretty arrogant, but that was definitely going over the line. Just wasn't sure when the inevitable backlash was coming. HEMA is by its very nature, conjecture. All armchair historians in some way contribute to the discussion.
You can think of all the technique you ever learn, but shit will be different if you know you could die in the duel. Unless he duel without armor on using his so call expert sword technique, I'm not convinced /j
Plenty of examples in history. The French were supposedly the best standing army in the world in 1940... lost in 6 weeks. The NATO doctrine of how to perform attacks just failed in Ukraine due to way more mines than accounted for in the doctrine and millions of drones overhead that see every little thing. Fighter pilots in WW1 making everything up on the fly because there simply WASNT a doctrine yet on how to do that stuff. Other weapons, other challenges, new types of doing things ALWAYS forced armies, fighters, duelists to adapt and learn new things. "This is how you do it and everything else is wrong" is an idiotic stance to have where combat is concerned. Such a strict "right and wrong" style of fighting attitude has never worked at any place or time in history. Combat has always evolved, and competent fighters were not the ones just learning the techniques, they were the ones throwing the book out the window and improving on it by trying something new. The master is not the one reading the book, the master is the one writing it, because he figured out that the old book was stupid.
Shad's constant inability to remember if the chap's name is "David" or "Daniel" is probably the most hilarious put-down imaginable, and I don't even think it was intentional, which makes it better.
As a Daniel myself, I, too, can assure you that people mess this up unintentionally all the time. It happens to me about half the time I meet new people.
I guess he does not realize that like 99% of the audience isn't an actual fencer or fighting with swords on a daily basis. We are just nerds who like swords.
I also love how SellswordArts's demonstration double bladed long-sword was taped at the handles to minimize all handling capacity of the weapon and handed off to an assistant who was transparently attempting to fumble the ball. I'm no master swordsman but there are ways to intentionally set up your staged result without deliberately revealing that you're taking the piss.
Yup. Deliberate sabotage doesn't make the point true. Shad made several experiments with the double blade and multiple testing for at least optimal and very viable combat effectiveness if the double bladed long sword was actually made into a real weapon.
There's a certain boxing quote I recall: "Everyone is vulnerable when they punch. _I'm_ vulnerable when I punch." Pick any kind of sword technique. From a mordhau to a simple thrust. I guarantee you can set up an experiment that will make it seem utterly useless. If someone claims a technique "can't work", it says more about them than the technique in question.
The (edit) toxic gatekeepers logic: Unless you are actively in the business of making movies, you shouldn't talk about movies. Unless you are a professional chef, you shouldn't critique food. Unless you play professionally, you shouldn't talk about sports. Unless you are a writer, you can't critique books. Unless you fought with medieval weapons in actual medieval warfare, you shouldn't talk about its usefulness as a weapon. Unless you have been on an adventure, you should not talk about adventuring.
Doesn't seem like a gatekeeping problem. Communities can't exist without some gatekeeping. This guy just seems to lack ANY level of nuance and ability to understand other people's content and takes. It's a superiority complex and elitism, more like
That's not gatekeeping, that's elitism. Every community should have a level of gatekeeping because it prevents people from poking their heads in, getting things changed to suit them, and abandoning the people who were originally in the community in the first place. New people who enjoy a hobby/community for what it is are welcome and the gate, as it were, is open for them.
Gatekeeping is making sure the area you're talking about isn't changed from what it is. You will have people who haven't done everything be part of it. It's Elitism to say you must have done everything.
Not what he was saying. He was saying if you want to learn how to actually use or know how these weapons are used, you should watch or study under people who actually practice the art. Which is literally true for anything.
@@bobbertbobberson6725 yeah elitists are a problem cause there just puritans or pharisees those who claim perfection is less than nothing a particularly useless and hypocritical argument
When someone calls "fencers" or "hema practitioners" "the real" swordmanship pros, you can hear the metallic echoes of gauntleted facepalms of thousands hmb and buhurt enjoyers.
Edit: Ok, I only just now found the back and forth of response videos of both, Shad and David, and I've got to say that what started as a misunderstandjng/misrepresentation turned into unnecessary petty YT drama. Just tałk it out, guys. Not in your videos. Have an actual conversation, and do a video about that. From where I stand it looks like you might get along just fine. ----- Original: Just imagine the firearms related TH-cam, if shooting at official competitions would be the single most important requirement you'd need to meet in order validate your opinion. No Garand Thumb, no Kenntucky Ballistics, no Demolition Ranch, no Brandon Herrera - they'd be gone, along with most other guntubers, their knowledge, experiences and perspectives. Even Jonathan Ferguson (firearm historian; Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum, UK) wouldn't qualify to talk about firearms under those standards, for he is probably among the ones who are furthest from "practicing the art". David's opinion, while he's still free to have it, is elitist, narrow-minded gatekeeping bs that serves no purpose (apart from creating drama, i. e. clicks).
I am sure Mat and Brandon did shoot in competetion - both ended dead last :D but yea, i do understand and agree with your point. Honestly imagine it in guitar related videos, if Herman Li (Dragonforce) would say anything like that - if you are unable to play 200bpm solo you cannot talk about it. It is completely the level of stupidity, when you critisize anything and first response you get "OH YEA, SO SHOW ME HOW YOU CAN DO IT BETTER THAN!!!!"
@@histkontext Exactly. It applies to practically everything, and is equally stupid regardless of the context. Oh, i got a better one: Imagine Buzz Aldrin saying, "Don't talk about the moon, unless you've been there." 🤣
Well, to be fair firearms channels often get into disputes over qualifications as well. For instance, there's a large portion of the pro-firearms community that believes the only individuals qualified to speak on marksmanship and other training endeavors must be military combat veterans. One recent example was when GBRS Group and T-Rex Arms had some public disagreements, with former veterans like Garand Thumb speaking up for T-Rex Arms and the quality of their instructional content.
@@theKashConnoisseur Of course. You can see it everywhere. Disagreement in itself is a good thing. There are always different points of view and mindsets of which multiple sides of the argument can benefit from in a variety of situations. But not realizing that you're severely limiting not just yourself, but also the people you're trying to teach, simply by fully subscribing to only one school of tbought and disregarding absolutely everything else, is not disagreeing. It's just childish "my kung fu is the only one true form". And I simply cannot comprehend how people come to that conclusion, other than by a severe lack of experience, or utter ignorance regarding the origins of the stuff they think they know so well.
HEMA is fantastic but Sellsword seems to present fencing as combat. Fencing is a sport. The manuscripts we train from were primarily made for people just like ourselves, hobbyists who want to spar within a competitive rule set. We don't want to confuse "swordsmanship" with "fencing". Fencing is a sport for fun and training, swordsmanship is combat with a sword. Real combat.
@@TimaHzTV thats what "primarily" means. The masters themselves and maybe 2% of students would ever see a duel in their life. Their schools were businesses, and the bills were paid by hobbyists. On top of that, dueling is only one type of tiny, heavily governed combat. Its not the battlefield, its not self defense, it doesn't represent every way to fight with a sword. Its a very specific skill set. Your ability to duel in tournaments is not the only criteria when talking about swords.
I watched more of his video and sellsword conflates the word fencing with swordsmanship very often, im pretty convinced he thinks fencing is the be all end all of sword fighting.
@@gainsofglory6414 50/50 on that. Like, you can say that, but it is true for every activity, but active participation in battles(which are not about personal skill at all), skirmishes, etc. Nothing can fully prepare, but martial skills are somewhat transferable. Duels were not always regulated. And were not regulated in a same way. Also, Montante manuals teach mostly not dueling. Marozzo and other bolognese masters talk about self-defence and street fights, so I presume does Fiore (didn't read). The proportion of duel/sport/"general fighting" is not so obvious to me.
@@TimaHzTV but we arent talking about what manuals exist and their contents. There are treatises for all kinds of things. Armor, no armor, pole arms, swords of different types, dueling, self defense, battlefield, etc. 90% of HEMA today is focused on just a few treatises, which are your typical longsword, duel oriented ones. Thats what I mean by "primarily". I'm just saying that fencing is not the only analog to sword based combat.
Yes. Shad does a rough version of science. How do new techniques come. it through screw around to see what works and doesn't work. Like grab a sword with a glove. Or pocket sand. Or use a flint lock.
SellSword is a HEMA and stage fencer but constantly conflates this to being a historical sword fighter, HEMA is dueling, modern hema praticianers are are fencers who spar like they are dueling. AKA HEMA is not how people actually fought historically, its how they dueled historically, hema practitioners are just historical fencers, they are not 'sword fighters' or 'historical martial artists' despite that being what hema is an acronym for. Modern HEMA fencers are usually terrible at fighting when compared to LARPers or martial artists, because they are not fighters, they just spar for points.
Moral of the story: If you're going to call out other people for stupid mistakes and lack of experience, you'd better make sure YOU can't get called out for those same things.
@@dutchdykefingeror a more relevant way to put it. Just because you play dress up and pretend to do sword play doesn’t make you any more or less correct about actual combat centuries ago than anyone else. It’s a mere imitation that you believe to be the more correct or only right form of the real thing? Yeah that’s just being obtuse and arrogant.
Pretty much nobody is a “real swordsman” anymore. Unless you’re actually fighting people, for real, with a sword then you don’t have much of leg to stand on.
It's like how Competition MMA experts will always choose to run because they haven't trained to kill someone. Likewise we'll criticize TMA for claiming they could do the same without testing. In actuality the only ones with the skill would be put to death in modern society. There's all sorts of theory like "cut this way to deal with fiber based armors" and etc. but even with practices like tameshigiri the stand-in for a person isn't resisting and the chops delivered have awful follow-through that would realistically get you killed by a novice if you missed once. Even with resisting opponents and fencing there's clear differences between competition and orthodox for all forms of fencing in all forms of swordsmanship regardless of country. People who are overwhelmingly focused on competition can hardly even be trusted as experts even if their practical skills are high their habits have warped. They may still be able to "say" well but they'll no longer be practicing what they preach. Really we need something like M-1 but with a bunch of different formats then perhaps there can be some degree of testing. But like MMA there will still be limits to what can be legally tested.
Not real until someone has a dagger in their throat. Until then its reenacting. And reenacting is amazing, I do it for Revolutionary War, but I understand that unless something goes wrong and the cannon, I am next to explodes. I am not at real risk of actual muskets firing live ammunition. Unless someone forget their ramrod again. It went through three inches of granite. :D
@@xX-fd2qj i will reference you to hand to hand combat with trench tools and bayonets of ww1 for what edged weapons do to humans. perhaps the butchery of manchette warfare in Africa?
There has been a incidents of murders done with swords in recent years. You can look it up. Scary but true. Of course, it's always one sided, because no murderer is honorable
That is such stupid reasoning, the difference is you’re actively recreating scenarios, it’s like explaining what boxing is but you’ve only read books, sellswords point isn’t that you can’t talk about fencing, it’s that you can’t explain what fencing would have been like 700 years ago if you’ve never touched a sword, who do you think is better at driving, the guy who read the manual or the guy who has actually driven a car
@@limelight6970 Who you do think better understands language, an actual writer and author or a guy who fences? By your logic since sellsword isn't a writer or author like Shad then he has no right using words to explain how to use a sword over someone who is. See how that works? The fact is everyone is qualified to speak on every topic. A persons speech is judged by its content, not by their right to speak isn't based on their qualifications. If the most lowly and uneducated person speaks the truth they are worth listening to over even the most highly experienced or educated person who is speaking lies.
@@AgentUltimate7 Not sure what's worse, the fact you think that would be a false equivalency (who do you think is better x or y, literal same argument worded exactly the same), or that you somehow missed the point, which was how bad of an argument that would be.
Siskel and Ebert were some of the most trusted and prolific movie reviewers for 20 years. They never made a movie, so should their opinions on the art not be taken in?
I have never encountered their work, so I cannot speak to its quality; however, if we assume they had zero comprehension of what made a good movie from a theoretical standpoint and purely evaluated film through a lens of their own subjective emotions, then yes, their opinions should be disregarded. Trust and proliferation do not mean anything if they are objectively incorrect. If the opposite is true, then their opinions are far more valuable than any movie makers, as making a film does not grant the creator omniscience over the subject matter.
It's honestly interesting to see the sword community has similar problems to the American firearms community. There are many military/law enforcement individuals that believe "civilians" shouldn't have any input or practice certain things due to the appeal to authority fallacy. There's also the issue of people hating on channels for just doing fun experiments or trying interesting stuff out. Thankfully, that mindset is the minority at this point, and these people are properly shamed as being goobers. Love the content and positive mindsets gents. Keep it up.
That would be fair except that's not at all what was stated in the original video. Shad is for some weird reason misrepresenting the original video a lot here.
Timestamps of the specific statement/argument by Sellsword that Shad misrepresents, clarify the context, and explain as to how it's misrepresented. Because just saying Shad is misrepresenting, isn't really anything.
@@8ligh7Lol no I'm not gonna run around and do your research for you. Watch the original video, watch Shad's response, watch the response to the response. I'm at work. My opinion is my opinion, do what you want with it. Shad is misrepresenting the video. Watch and think critically.
@@8ligh7 lol if you just were to watch the original it would be make clear... If not your as dense as he is or are intentionally misinterpreting the easily understood message.
@@samc9133 yeah I'm not sure how he misinterpreted disclaimers at the beginning and end of the videos he clipped out of context.... On top of that he really did some scouring, and went back to videos from over a year ago where sellsword tried cutting mats for the first time... Where he also makes a disclaimer that it is in no way a show of skill in the martial art as a whole, but it is a way to practice edge alignment specifically. Not sure how everyone here is mostly siding with shads slimy tactics here but whatever. I like watching both of them and probably will continue to do so.
The obvious and already stated aside, the main problem I had and have with a lot of David's content and points. Was that he always approached every situation from a singular POV, a fencer's POV. Fencing, in its own respect is a very skillful and beautiful art, but it is not the only art, or only style to exist. There are many different forms with vastly different uses, and simply looking at everything from that singular POV is without a doubt disingenuous. It is like a military marksman saying that a shotgun should not exist because it cannot do what a sniper rifle can. Two vastly different guns for vastly different occasions, completely incomparable.
Fencing has always been so weird to me, when I've seen it, it's always about who is the fastest, and they do like kamikaze attacks, lunging into each others blades. As long as my sword hits you first, it doesn't matter if I die as well, because I win. (Might just be me and the few fencing things I've seen though)
Fencing has always been so weird to me, when I've seen it, it's always about who is the fastest, and they do like kamikaze attacks, lunging into each others blades. As long as my sword hits you first, it doesn't matter if I die as well, because I win. (Might just be me and the few fencing things I've seen though)
@@EldritchCaptain This kind of reckless fighting style is common in olympic foil and saber fencing, where the right of way rule gives the attacker the win when double hits occur. But watch an olympic epee match, where there is no right of way rule, and you'll see a very defensive metagame being predominant.
@@EldritchCaptain That's entirely because fencing, much like a large portion of Kendo, is something that was recreated into a safer sport rather than something combat focused. Often with large steps made to be able to say that it isn't just "swordfighting" because swords were specifically restricted or fully illegal.
In the US, there’s a community of people who engage in historical re-enactments of Civil War battles. While there’s definitely something to be learned from that, none of those people are under the illusion that what they are doing is anything other than a reenactment. Some of these HEMA folks have this attitude that their practice sparring gives them some great insight on what it was like to be in a medieval battlefield. Sorry, no. They’re “armchair warriors”, too.
I do Revolutionary War reenactments, and while yes if the gunpowder goes off in my cartridge belt I will have a bad day, or the cannon explodes, or someone forgets their ramrod you can get hurt or die. No, we are not under any illusion we are anything other than reenactors who are playing parts to educate the populace. Though I will say when the weather is bad its amazing how your senses change. Consciously you know it's not real, unconsciously your body only half realizes. I have noticed that about HEMA.
To me. armchair means too much academic knowledge, not enough experience, logic, wisdom. It's sill better than a random person that knows the basics of a given subject.
Can't speak for all the civil war reenactors but the ones where I grew up would have to live out in the field the whole time the reenactment was going on, it gave it a more authentic feel. HEMA on the other hand seems like it's a more scripted event. Every HEMA practitioner I've met thinks they are God's gift to the "sport"
@@dylanmulvaney9912They are still not trying to kill each other, nor are they fighting in formation following the command of a leader. They have no more legitimate "real world" experience than, say, an Iaido or Kyudo practicioner, though they will, quite unlike the aforementioned, insist otherwise. Another great example is action gun matches, a combination of athletic and shooting ability that's meant to simulate a real combat scenario by putting the shooter under pressure. If you've ever seen the video of Keanu Reeves training for John Wick, that's basically what AGM is. Despite the stated goal of these events, no serious competitor or organizer for any of these will ever pretend that it is truly comparable to real combat scenarios nor will they condescend other forms of shooting competition/practice Tl;Dr HEMA types are insufferable
What annoys me the most with Sellsword is that often when you research something you go to multiple places for info, but he seems to want you to not do this.
Yeah, reverse grip was one of those things. Do some digging, it's good for quick situations rather then a style. 95% of the time it's not what you want. Then there's knives. Which is a different subject.
A LOT of that around recently. Those same people will almost ALWAYS rant about how they “Hate MiSiNForMaTioN.” They’ll usually spread some right after saying that too 😂
Finally got back to finishing this after seeing he made a response video. You guys have made solid points and have been very cordial and polite in your corrections. Now to go watch his reply and see if he reciprocates the same tone and emotions.
I'd agree but I really feel like sellsswords is deleting comments I can find quite a few disagreeing on both sides here and literally can't find a single one on shads side on sell sword
@@kingming9712 he addressed deleting hateful comments on his previous videos and showed some examples, but after seeing that sarcastic reply to one of his viewers shown in Shad's video, I wouldn't put him above deleting comments that are in favor of Shad and his team. All in all, David was polite in his response, but I've had the feeling he has a bit of an unchecked ego for a while now.
@@feroxdeus1998 He misrepresented many things, but at least he invited for dialogue which is good btw, I followed the whole thing and yes, for a time he deleted any opposition. Then the pinned comment got made and he got a bit more relax and started to instead insult the comments and deleting those he couldn't "gotcha"
Look sat his comments to those who simply tried to be neutral or even complimented him but mentioned he wasn't clear in the first one. Jumped right down their throats. The video was the act, the truth was revealed by his responses.
Honestly impressed with this response. Shad didn't just point out the flaws of Sellswords own double-sword test, but also proceeded to make a BETTER one for himself, and test the thing yet again (much to Nathan's dismay, apparently). The one response I saw about the handle length on Sellsword's end was (honestly very weak) "we'd have to raise funds to have one made." This made me think of another advantage to foam/synthetic weapons that I don't think came up, but it is cost. What I mean is, you can build a kind of prototype for very cheap to at least do some basic "proof of concept" testing. Stuff like reach and maneuverability. Sure it's not 1-to-1, but at least you'd be able to figure out if it is completely unviable as a weapon before putting in the money and effort of building a steel one (I'm pretty sure Shad has done this approach on some of their more ridiculous builds).
@@alexdupaixexactly, test the fundamentals and make sure the theory does work before you build some big expensive piece of equipment just for the theory to be completely pointless anyway.
@@draketurtle4169 yup. Exactly like what they're doing with the Titan sword project. They made it very clear the foam versions were to test proof of concept
Does anybody else love it when people try to call Shad out? Its always a treat. He reminds me of one of my college english Professors. Her name was Prof. Frances Auld. The very first day of class she waited outside the room until everyone took their seats then jumped through the door wearing Hulk fists and told us we would be reading about Cú Chulainn, the original Hulk. Just like her, Shad is an endless bundle of knowledge and enthusiasm that nothing can knock of kilter and if you challenge his work or maturity he will give you a step by step breakdown of why he does what he does, the logical fallacies YOU are making, own up to any of his own mistakes that you point out and make corrections to his work, and show you that you can in fact be both geeky AND functional adult at the same time.
It's a love hate relationship. I hate when people call Shad out with either malicious or stupid intentions, but I love Shad's responses. Genuine call-outs are just a win-win b/c Shad learns from the mistake and the other person (usually) isn't a massive d-bag.
Thoroughly deconstructing and disproving and debunking all in one take. And doing it with such a courtesy and due respect. That's why I love your content guys! I have learned a lot from you all in shadiversity. And I do love your castle videos as well! Very fascinating! Keep doing what you're doing!
This reminds me of the vet bro community. They claim you're larping by training with kit because you weren't an operator. As said by a certain purple heart recipient, and the king of bro vets whose name rhymes with Kim Tennedy.
@highc7812 short version - Dakota Meyer, a purple heart recipient, posted a rather unhinged video about people who were not in the military that train with kit (plate carrier/tactical vest, some might call it). It's similar to Sellsword Arts' take on swordsmanship. That you can't talk about it unless you practice based on his standards. Dakota Meyer essentially said you can't embrace 2nd Amendment rights if you weren't in the military. That's as deep as I want to go without sounding unhinged myself lol
@@philonda Oh fuck Isn’t Dakota that bitch that hid in a 50cal while his boys were being shot up. Because I’m pretty sure all my Corps Buddies hate the shit out of him for all the drama that went down about him
The fact that Sellsword cast the criticism without addressing who he is criticizing is not just passive aggressive, but also cowardly imo; he's effectively trying to rile up his community to do it for him...
@@HonorableAssassinsSo in a separate video he said who this video was addressing, while refusing to say who he was addressing in the video where he is addressing it? That is beyond retarded.
I think it's far more damming to take a 9 minutes video that talks about the elements that go into good, informative work and take that as a personal attack that warrants an hour+ long video where you speak for others without been asked to.
47:20 You can just see Nate going from trying to be civil to getting frustrated now that they are just being insulted. Good job on staying calm with this, guys.
This guy, this sellswordarts insulted me in a comment for not having anything in life and being noone because I had no followers because I criticized him because of the Advertisement of a enegydrink that had a few meetings with a judge because of its ingrediends. This guy is narcistic, he has a big mouth and a much bigger ego. I am happy that you guys dont let him in your league
@@TheNuisanceBird it was a comment under his advertisement of Gfuel an energydrink that faced lawsuits for being cancerous and unhealthy because of its artificial ingrediences. He as a contentcreator shouldnt advertise such crap unless its money and not honest passion that drives him
@@hugovonpayns9291 Simply stated that his new video was much better getting the message he wanted across. Jumped down my throat, blamed all Shad fans for making that up, and revealed his ego. Skallagrim and Easton jumped on to take his side. Shows me what this is about for sure.
As a student of History who has some limited HEMA experience (enough to be familiar with the treatises and culture towards them in that community, though I reckon that may vary in different countries) I'd say that the treatises, as in all matters historical, are a filter of all that once existed. A very good filter, as they were written by accomplished masters in an age when death in a duel was very common occurrence, but a filter nonetheless. We have very little European fencing surviving from before 1300 (general rule! I know there is some) and many areas of Europe are still _terra incognita_ where swordsmanship was just as everyday thing as in Germany and Italy, where most of the surviving stuff is from. There is next to nothing from antiquity (and consider, gentle reader, how prolific that literature must have been in a literate culture where commercial fighting in an arena was as big a thing as it was) and who knows what treasures language barrier withholds in the Arabic world - just to name a few things. On the subject of real art being within HEMA art and sanctioned only if found in treatises.. well, that's a laughable position. The truth of swordsmanship remains that whatever get the enemy killed, goes. Preferably you not getting killed as well in the process, and I'm pretty sure at least meister Liechtenauer said this as well almost verbatim somewhere, so there's that.
"So, you are the greatest warrior alive? Where are the battle scars that prove this claim?" "On the bodies of my enemies. Those that survived the encounter, of course."
"whatever get the enemy killed, goes. Preferably you not getting killed as well in the process" I mean, I _think_ you were intentionally underplaying this but it can't be emphasised enough how killing your enemy doesn't mean jack shit if you perish alongside them. In boxing and other contact sports you can trade blows and such, but not so much in a sport where potential death lays behind any blow.
As a History student with substantial HEMA experience, I must caution you. Like you, I watched Shadiversity before embarking on my own practice years ago and developed similar ideas. It became evident that those asserting an action's validity solely if found in historical sources are a mocked minority in the HEMA community. Many practitioners prioritize efficiency and winning, believing that mastering the sword through modern sport methods enhances manuscript understanding. Regarding Shad, form your own opinion, but exercise caution as he could be seen as very misleading.
We should also remind ourselves that the fencing treatises only contain what the masters wrote down. There are surely many lessons and technics that they didn't write down because they either didn't have enough space or just wanted people to pay them to teach.
I totally agree with you Shad. A lively debate consisting of contrasting opinion, disagreements and arguments is essential to further understanding and appreciation of all things, especially historical and the art of swordsmanship in this case. The ones calling for folks to not watch or listen to other opinions give away their perception of themselves as being weak on the subject. A person coming from a position of genuine knowledge or expertise should welcome the opportunity for their thoughts to be tested. It shows great character and competence to “steel man” an opponents argument before attempting to dismantle it.
Speaking as someone who’s done fencing…Yeah I’d trust Shad a hell of a lot more than a fencer when it comes to swordsmanship. Fencing is more in line with dueling in that there are set rules and standards for what weapons are allowed, what moves, etc. If someone honestly believes that medieval warfare was honorable and had set rules, they’re a fool. It’s combat, not a sport.
I wanna add to your arguement, as a student in archeology (specialized in mesolithic prehistory) that "historical" combat is hard to understand mainly because we often do not understand the techniques used. A bunch of Neolithic sites from Alsace (France) show either battlefields or pits filled with corpses of ennemies show traces of surprise scirmishes and brutal use of maces and axes (with also executions post battle). Broken bones and cut stigmas found on corpses seem to show that every hit was permitted. Experimental archeology, especially for the Mesolithic era, has tested long bow techniques using the materials found on preserved evidence found in Brittain or Scandinavia. The use of the bow has been tested, from its creation to its destruction, without any written sources from that era (because prehistoric groups didn't write as far as we know). While it cannot be historically proven (because it is impossible), it is still considered trustworthy because it is made through scientific methods of experimentation. Sellsword's opinion is also invalidated by battlefiled recreations made for the Gallic wars. Ceasar wrote ALOT about his battles as a way to promote himself. However, historians, archeologists and amateurs have recreated battles and formations used both by the roman army and the Gauls. They have proven that the use of techniques wouldn't have been has effective on the battlefield as formation and gear. Not that technoques are not efficient, but if you fight two or three enemies at a time, you will mostly have to rely on your gear and military formations to win. To check this, you can find sources from the archeological museum of Alesia, or any other speciallised museums of France.
Thats a problem a lot of martial artists (both armed and not armed) fail to understand Like in an actual fight for survival all your knowledge falls apart when someone cuts your arm clean off
An mma fighter will beat a random guy who is ''from the streets'' if they ever get into an altercation even if the mma fighter usually fights by the rules. He trains in an eviorment where the best possible technique is judged even if its set in certain limitations. So the fact that you value the word of a guy who does more larping and DnD then hema is idiotic. There are obviously sports that get closer to real life then others. Like boxing and mma. Or sport fencing and hema. Get a grip
@@dog640 will he beat said random guy if he had a knife? If someone has a knife and has the intention to kill then you will get cut no matter how good of a fighter you are
@@dog640 that is also a fasle statement. My brother does free martial arts under trained mma pros. He did judo before that. The first thing you learn is that ANYBODY can beat ANYBODY. Yes, you might have the advantage of techniques and training. BUT, someone that has the intent and/or gear WILL have the upper hand. Heck, they are more dangerous BECAUSE they don't have the techniques, which makes them unpredictable. And again, this statement is historically false. Warfare is about gear, numbers, terrain, morale and Military formations. Read Sun-tzu about this. A battle field IS NOT an arena. Heck, even look at gladiators, trained warriors that could be compared with today's wrestlers (just with more blood and death). To check this, look at the many documentaries and read the documents produced by italian archeologists or the 200 years of archeological/historical studies of the roman era.
I have been part of a Hema community for years, and I think that you have great content. if I remember right it was your content that encouraged me to join a club. and the reason I joined was to try things with swords, as many different things as I could and in doing so I have found that swords men who don't ask questions don't succeed. you test all most all of your ideas, and even if not all of the things would work in a Hema tournament setting would even work in a real fight. I have seen the craziest things work, would they work a gain no but they did.
I also have a mentality that if it was not in a Manuel dose not mean that it did not exists in fact in some manuals it seems that some things where common knowledge and did not talk a bout them in the Manuel. i also think that depending on the style you are meant to test out your own way. (In all things learn to find cuts, thrust and slices- The Dresden Manuscript) in my opinion if you where to give a master of old a two bladed sword they would say it is better then nothing.
As long as he doesn’t start shouting… once he loses his temper I check out completely- usually happen when he goes on the defensive so I was glad to it see it here, cuz this other guy’s vids were really cocky. There seem to be a lot of attempts to “cancel” Shad lately for some reason. I guess he’s just gotten too big and gotten on the wrong people’s radar🤷♂️
@@mkv2718 It's mostly cause of his Knight's Watch content. Shad has said himself there's a reason he separates the kind of content on the 2 channels. Yes it's to not dilute the algorithm but also that for the most part he keeps many of his political opinions to Knight's Watch. Many people looking don't separate it at all
Just come across this video of yours and have to say I always thought double bladed swords would’ve been treated more like a bo staff maybe? Have to admit your usage point makes sense though. Love the content, keep it up guys. Also have to say as you did that there’s more schools of sword craft than just fencing so hope he’s broadened his horizons
Your channel is one of the main reasons I finally bought a bow, after thinking about it for most of my life but never actually taking the steps. Now I have three bows and I frequently practice shooting or modify my bows with your channel going in the background, with every intent to get better. One of the things I like most is the way you test unorthodox things. Also Nate is a sweetheart so the eye candy doesn't hurt.
There's one aspect where Sellsword is definitely right. Across History there have always been swordsmen who were arrogant cocky know-it-alls, who thought they were invincible. Until they got run through by someone else! 🤣He perfectly represents this attitude. He's like an 80's villain from a medievalesque movie! Love it!😂
this is true, but that number should thin out when their hubris gets them killed kind of how most real fighters probably already gave themselves in a war and we end up with a higher concentration of pussies
Dude has such a thin sword a heavier one would instantly break it lol. Its just "fancy" and "tasteful" to have a thin sword in the 17th century cause its just lighter. Anyone with a 2 hander would win cause its closer to a spear
No one in the HEMA community gets to call someone else on the HEMA community an armchair warrior unless they have a duel to the death with swords under their belt, otherwise by that standard no one knows anything
@@mcsatans5120 there are places in the usa where mutual combat is legal, its how streetbeefs operates or started out iirc. However, im not sure if its strictly regulated to unarmed combat.
Since when does a film critic have to be able to make movies, an art expert have to be able to paint, or a music critic has to be able to play a musical instrument?
But there is an argument to be made that a tuba player can best tell someone how to play a tuba, someone who goes and plays golf will be better at the sport of golf better than someone who only watches and studies it. Experience is genuinely important to knowledge.
@@jagw4832 I kind of disagree. I am pretty good at what I do professionally, Not the best teacher though. Teaching and doing are two different things. Sure experience is pretty important but saying someone who practices just one aspect of some art is the only valid source of learning on the art and dismissing the experience of others is kinda uncool.
@@wolfcrecent5286 That's absolutely fair. I get that anyone could talk about anything, but I do think when teaching or even just putting information out, it is important to have real experience with the subject. I don't think it applies to this internet beef, but the point is still valid.
I was a commando in the army, and I started training with airsoft teams who were just kids mostly in their 20s having fun and I found myself learning a lot. The professional military community had a horrific reaction to airsoft under the same construct that this isn’t real enough these people aren’t qualified. to this day, I stand by the best training anyone can possibly have and close combat is extremely realistic airsoft. just make it $1000 if you get hit. winner takes all and you will be shocked how intensely real it feels if you are above 400fps. Peoples egos get very sensitive.
Check out Garand Thumb. He participated in an all out war game with airsoft. Out in the field for I believe a week, using NVG/Thermo, full kit and broken into platoons. Was legit stuff.
"If you don't do the art you can't talk about the art" Ok, so I guess all those Science Educator channels that aren't run by actual scientists can't try and educate people about the topic. Utterly baffling take.
Not what he said. He said you’re not going to get actual knowledge or learn how the weapons were used unless you study under or listen to people who do use them. Who’s going to know how a rifle is used in combat. The guy who shoots in his backyard or the guy coming back from 8 tours? Who’s going to understand jiu jutsu better - the guy who watches MMA and occasionally has fun in the house or the actual fighter who practices the art? LISTEN to what people are saying when they speak.
What a masterful response to a empty attempt at calling out a group of content makers. Absolutely demolished every point to the ground and didn’t make it a “lol go fuck yourself” or a “Get wrekt kiddo.” Not that this was the point but something that I kept thinking of, mostly because I reread the book recently, was from Sun Tzu. If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. Clear as day in this whole response.
Talking about swordsmanship through a fantasy lense is like talking about science through a scifi lense. It's about A) bringing the topic to an audience who specifically aren't a practitioner and B) having fun. Its perfectly valid Especially because you aren't saying "yea people did this" you are saying "this is cool, this might work in this setting."
To add to this, one of the greatest things talking about something in a fantasy sense does is bring the right people into the right field. A lot, and I mean A LOT, of scientists became scientists because of stuff like Star-Trek, Monster Movies, Comic Books, etc. Scientists are nerds at heart and more often than not the current, and past few, generations of scientists who have made some significant advancements in their fields started because someone showed them something that was fun and entertaining. Obviously sword-fighting isn't really going to become the new standard of self defense and new world changing things aren't going to come out of someone going "I wanna swing a sword good cause anime-man did it!" but it's a great way to get people into a fitness hobby that is friggen awesome. And hey, maybe decades or centuries in the future we'll have space flight and light-swords and cybernetic enhancements and it'll all come full circle.
When i was in art college, one of the things on offer was, if i recall correctly, was basically a Art Critic degree. It wasn't in my interest so i didn't bother. I will tell you that i had an art criticism class as part of my mandatory curriculum. Before we spent any time creating, we learned the fundamentals of art. all in all we must've spent a solid third of that class doing nothing but learning that stuff without the practicing of the art. So honestly, this idea of needing to practice to be legit rings very hollow to me, because, at least in my field, they train people specifically to do this sort of thing. and i very seriously doubt that most game reviewers even know how to code, much less know how to make a game. understanding how to tear into something, and understanding the flaws of a thing is far and away not the same thing and knowing how to do a thing. there's a old adage that goes like this: "it is easier to destroy than create". Knowing how to do a craft can sometimes provide insight into a thing, and perhaps better criticism, I often find that the better critic of my work is actually some who DOES NOT know the craft. Because even the most ignorant of us can tell when something sucks, even if they don't know why. It's a silly idea, in my opinion, all and all.
That is VERY different to martial arts dude. Knowing what’s fun or interpreting what’s beautiful isn’t the same as learning how to fight. Not even remotely close. Unless you actually fight, you don’t know how to fight. There’s no amount of theory or text study that can be done that will make you outperform anyone. You have to actually DO IT. Same way learning to drive a car or flying a plane. You need to actually do it to know it.
But how does that work with swordsmanship? Nobody uses swordsman to actually kill anymore. So the people who larp and fence ARE the perfessionals. What sellsword says doesn't work because HEMA is just one facet of medieval combat.
@@lustrazor44 In saying this you have entirely misunderstood my craft. There is a great deal of technical skill in artistry, and contrary to popular belief there is a fundamental set of rules that when followed typically produce better art. I brought up the lay person at the end on purpose because i know the laymen doesn't not know much or any of the technical skill.there are people in my field who say exactly what you are saying about artistry. But even if we assume that you are correct, and that art and martial prowess have nothing in common and can not be equated; why, when you are learning to drive, the first thing they do is hand you a book and tell you to study it? why wouldn't they just put you in a 2 ton speed death machine? I don't drive, but i sure as hell can tell you when someone is driving poorly. I can also give you a historical break down of cars, and why the invention of particular components was important, and so on. practical application does give you insight, yes. but not having the practical application should not bar you from the conversation. Gatekeeping of this sort exists in every community. as another commenter said, unless you make movies, you can't talk movies, if you don't cook professionally you can't talk food, if you don't publish books you can't write, and so on. This is much of the same vain.
@@manyharmons4308 Could you do me a solid and tell me what HEMA even is? My dad was a larper so I know a bit of that, but until i watched this video I'd never heard of HEMA.
@@tr0n4556 Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) refers to both the academic research and physical training associated with the combat arts of medieval Europe.
Some people cannot access proper HEMA classes, let alone pay for them at times. As a sword and gun fan living in a country where I can't get proper ones nor allowed to carry, the best I can do is watch Shad and Skallagrim.
If you're looking for good gun channels I recommend Garand Thumb, Demolition Ranch, Kentucky Ballistics, Brandon Herrera, Hickock45, Forgotten Weapons, and Paul Harrell.
@@jamesconlon8429 There is too much arrogance in many practitioners, that gets annoying to watch, and that's coming from someone who fences, not well, but i'd rather my foil break and it go through my brain than watch someone dryer than the Sahara and twice as smug talk HEMA. i like Schola Gladiatoria and Blood and Iron (A HEMA Club), but many are just so, boring. Also Federico Malagutti is great, and entertaining.
SHAD never told me he was an expert on anything, just an enthusiast and I really appreciate that. You are an innovator of new techniques & weapons, thats actually useful and interesting to me.
This reminds me a lot of the music community, and so many classical trained musicians look down on self taught musicians and playing with incorrect techniques, and unusual chord creations and progressions. But we would lose so much great music if we didn't have self taught musicians.
It is exactly like that, and motivated by the same thoughts and feelings. Classical musicians (and hardcore HEMA nerds) have invested an unbelievable amount of time and energy into their studies. They have done so because they believe that the thing they are studying has VALUE. When someone who hasn’t done the same studying is occupying the same space as them, it is an implicit attack on all that time and effort they have invested. I hope that makes sense…
It's more to do with actually practically implementing what you claim I might imagine, among other things. I know plenty of people who don't spar, don't compete, and don't train in a practical manner, who then claim authority on fighting methods. Most of the time this results in an incomplete picture of the problem and the solution, to put it politely, because they don't have the necessary experience, practical or otherwise, to actually You can't claim to authority if you've never put your theories or practice to an actual test. While this doesn't bother me personally as I have no investment either way, I do sort of understand where it's coming from. I've practiced unarmed martial arts, including both "traditional" and modern, for over a decade, and I get very irritated when I see people spreading information that is clearly not based in practical experience of the subject. An untested theory is just that, it cannot be claimed to be anything else unless you put it into practice and demonstrate your first hand knowledge. Shad is absolutely not a self defence "expert" spreading bunk, but he does talk about a subject he doesn't actually practice in regards to HEMA. Which is fine, I'm more of a theorist myself at the moment regarding martial arts due to my location, but it's fully understandable why someone who spends a significant amount of time practicing and teaching this subject might get annoyed if he makes any claims to authority over it.
In a much shorter metaphor. It's like a self-taught musician never playing in front of someone or demonstrating that they can actually play but then informing other people on the subject. Can you see why some musician's might end up irritated by that? If you spend a significant amount of time on actually practicing something, and then someone else who does not do this comes along and makes claims towards this, you might build some irritation or resentment as a result.
Hopefully we can keep these skills we humans have been building up for so long like drawing or playing a musical instrument and it all doesn't get replaced by A.I. I really would want for my children to learn and create music and art and I really don't want human art and creativity to die within my generation 😩
When people try to act high and mighty on swordsmanship in modern times, I laugh. I just imagine what some highly trained grizzled war veteran from the medieval era would think if he saw some of these people acting like they have some deep understanding of ACTUALLY using these weapons. Its ridiculous lol.
@@Reinfarcements actual medieval warriors liked stories that are impractical like beowulf wrestling grendal to death so do whatever you know just don't lie about your goals
@@marley7868 I'm not sure how the stories medieval warriors may or may not have enjoyed is relevant to what I'm trying to say. My example is using a man who has been in actual life and death combat with medieval weapons several times. A man such as that would laugh at a modern man that claims they are some expert on swordsmanship. Whether he liked the story of Beowulf or not doesn't take away that fact.
@@Reinfarcements yeah I was agreeing with you and showing that they tended to like silly stuff to further demonstrate the guy this vid is responding to's faulty mindset
TL;DR So, umm, I watched the video in question in full. And I think this was a big misunderstanding. Begin wall of text: For context: I’ve been watching Shad for years and I’ve always liked his content. I only found Sellsword very recently and I also really like his content. I actually saw the targeted video *in full* before Shad’s response came out, so when I watched Shad’s response, I was extremely confused. I didn’t get that hostile impression from Sellsword that Shad got AT all. I saw that Sellsword made his own response and what not talking about the literal hate comments he was deleting (showed them in his video. They were NOT constructive comments). This is obviously not Shad’s fault just people being dicks, but I wanted to point this out because the top comment on THIS video is saying how his comment got “shadow banned” when no one even asked what it said. Also, I have one genuine criticism for your response Shad. Your thumbnail and title. It’s extremely clickbaity and misleading. Sellsword (rightfully) parodies it in his response video. Everything else was a misunderstanding, but that was a goof on your end.
@Shad you're the guy that got my whole family into swords in general, messers in particular, and eventually HEMA. My wife also got into HEMA: initially for fitness, then as my training partner for drills, and now for enjoyment. We check off all Sellsword's boxes, and we would never have even heard of HEMA if I hadn't been for your armchair content.
(and by armchair content I mean the old videos where you are literally sitting and talking, e.g., your 5-part series on the katana or your videos on the Elmslie typology. )
A hate this kind of elitism and attack on ones character. I'm 100% certain I wouldn't get along with Shad if we met in person, but I always loved Shadiversity and will continue to proudly contribute on patreon for the varied and thoughtful content.
To be honest i watched David’s video first and “wait why would Shad react to that”. But after watching this video Shad has a point. He just want to make videos that he likes and never claimed to be an expert ever. Its not his fault that people find his content very entertaining. I love watching the Shadsiversity crew having fun. Hope this issue will be settled soon in a livestream
Running down the competition is a desperate shady lawyer / car salesmen tactic. This Sellsword Arts person seems insecure. He should try to be a better youtuber instead of starting drama and complaining about his competition. I have almost zero sword training and watch this channel for entertainment. For a layman like me bragging that you are a "real swordsman" is like saying you are a "real wizard." Let's just enjoy our anachronistic interests and hobbies.
Have to say, I don't understand the thought process of Sellsword Arts with his criticism. People are doing their own things from their own angle and that is all fine. For myself, Shad's videos were the first ones to inform me of the existence of HEMA and led me to start practicing it about a year ago. For my part, thanks Shad and keep doing what you're doing and introducing more people to the world of swords and medieval stuff!
Not going to lie this makes me want to contact my local blacksmith for a double bladed sword for no other reason than to a) get good for the meme b) post results after using it in harness fighting for a couple months
@@sworduser5086 don’t think I could, it’ll be made like a hema longsword just a bit more rigid. Plus I’ll be wearing armour for the most part so I’ll be good lol
Sellsword Arts really bashed the rest of the community for talking about swords in pop culture as if he hadn't made 60 identical videos ranting about how "Lighsaber lore is broken".
Man it's almost like he repeatedly said in the video is that he enjoys that kind of content and you can still watch it, as long as you differentiate fantasy from reality
Starwars sucks 😔, but like sellswordarts says, watch it, enjoy it and content centered on it, just like he does. It's just fantasy, is not true swordsmanship
I get the sense his successes in HEMA competitions which he's been doing a lot more of this past year got to his head. He sees other sword content creators who don't necessarily compete and he thinks he's more valid because he's proven himself in such a setting.
Good of him. He won against a bunch of guys playing with toys. That doesn't make him an expert or knowledgeable. Also, I would never support a person who acts that way out of jealousy. He doesn't even understand that not everything related to medieval battles works like a tournament of HEMA. Not every person wants content based only on that specific context. Many of us want to understand the logic behind fighting with weapons in many hypothetical situations (for storytelling, like Brandom Sanderson does). That is the fun part of weapons. Not the "sport" itself.
@@--Sama- That's what I'm saying. Don't get me wrong, it's great that he's been competing and whatnot, but now it seems like he's developed this idea that he's a real swordsman because he's out there fighting other swordsmen. People who don't do that somehow aren't real swordsmen.
This honestly feels like a Dakota Meyer situation again where a guy accomplishes something great and let's it get to their head and proceeds to build their whole personality/life around this singular point
Went to his video and left a comment because I've enjoyed his content quite a bit before, and he straight up shadow-banned it. My guess is that I was too accurate or too critical, hes still replying to new comments as we speak, and he's basically just bashing you guys and supporting anyone who does the same. It's downright obvious from his nearly split like to dislike ratio and his comment section not reflecting that that he or his team is deleting comments criticizing him.
If you see this, please acknowledge, this is substantial in my opinion. When anyone claiming to be in favor of the truth and accuracy deletes comments criticizing their viewpoint, I think some legitimacy is drawn into question.
Same lol Sellsword is moderating his comments right now. I noticed my comment and many other comments disagreeing with him were getting deleted/unposted (you can see your comment but no one else can), while comments supporting him were staying up.
Damn means he was probably deleting some of mine.
@@als3022Yeah, guarantee it.
All ya have to say is his arms are to short to make reverse grip work 😂😂😂😂😂
All the comments are like,"uhh yea idk why shad feels attacked or take this seriously such a loser".
My men/women did u use any of the braincells making these comments, these channels are both doing fine with Shads view time being longer, it is Sellsword that is being butthurt that his content isnt getting attention and trying to start a beef to get attention XD. Sellsword is butthurt, Shad is just pointing that fact out, with pity even, suggesting him to find ways to enjoy the community.
Why isn't medieval hobbyist gatekeeping simply referred to as portcullising?
Thats a good one. Im stealing that
😂
Lol love it I'm so using this now
How about murderholing?
@@herbderbler1585 no that's taken. That's what I do to your mom
Hey there mate. Appreciate my name drop 😄 I actually had never heard of this Sellsword youtuber before. By what I gathered from this video of yours, It does sound like a case of gatekeeping but to be 100% fair I’ll have to watch a couple of his videos to have a full idea of what he brings to the table. I always hope for reconciliation within our community. Just like I am still supporting you because I do not believe the accusations of bigotry and homophobia against you one bit, I am also not fully convinced that Matt has a problem with religion itself or conservative thought in general. All in all, It’s always nice to be able to agree to disagree and learn to coexist with people with different ideas. You keep being you.
Love ya mate!
I will never be convinced that Matt actually meant anything he said. In my honest belief, I think he’s had his job, reputation, personal information, or all 3 of those things threatened by people and then did that to try and protect himself and his family.
@@genghiskhan6809 Matt was already successful before he became IGN's dedicated sword guy... he had no reason to shit on Shad like that. His livelihood was in no danger.
He just saw a threat to his new juicy sponsorship and decided to slander Shad and burn the bridge. I had been watching Matt for years but he lost all my respect.
@@SkeletonXinsame to be honest. I watched him for a very long time and then along came this drama from him and he made up lies and accusation about shad and publicly denounced him.
For a man who championed context and factual evidence in his videos, he lost all my respect after all that.
Oh I believe he already did. SKallagrim and Easton picked a side and Swordart is right with them.
There is a TH-cam channel with a Japanese sword master who recently did a video about the longsword. He was handed one and asked what he thought about it. At no point did he talk about the katana being better or trash talk the weapon. Instead he immediately began experimenting to see what advantages it would give him in a duel. That’s the difference with a master and a purist. A master will always look for the pros and cons of a weapon or style, take what he or she can use and discard what doesn’t work.
Would a double sword be practical or work in a battlefield environment, who knows? But a master would have picked it up and said “what does this allow me to do that I normally couldn’t”.
Seki Sensei I remember that. He never held one before and immediately after getting used to the blade and incorporating his style he sees how the pomel is an interesting addition and can be used to quick bash someone on draw. The hand guards flaws on the quick draw for tight movement but also how versatile it is once already drawn.
@@snintendognow I wish seki sensei's opinion on the double bladed long sword. It might be fun.
@@dancetroupe1 That.."Sword" is a monstrosity, but i can see him instantly using it similar to a Jo or Bo staff.
Spot-the-f-on award with oak leaves, swords and gummibears!😉👍
The master knows that at the end of the day HE is the weapon, the tool is just a fancy stick
Thank you for making that video David. It lead to 'Shadiverity's Double-bladed Sword Test #2' with an upgraded version of their weapon
Agree
I can't say I've always been happy with the direction this channel is gone, I preferred the deep dives into historical content to create an idea of how castles looked and stuff. However, I wouldn't ever say the quality of content on this channel has dropped or had become less reliable in any way. You all just decided to explore another part of your nerdhood, and that's totally fine.
yea bring back castle stuff lol
I would, i say this channels gone down in quality quite harshly.
@@jasoncp3257I wouldn't put it in terms of quality, but I do miss his older scripted video style. These days it seems rather impromptu with lots of banter, and less "dense" in terms of insight
@@jasoncp3257Thats a flase statement. Quality is an objective standard and objectively Shads video are made to a very high quality standard. He edits in the relevant clips at relevant times, all of his shots are set up well and lit well, theres no major flubs or mess up left in, the videos are succint and stay on topic, he has very good ad breaks that try to do more then just cut and read a script. He puts a lot of time and money into costuming and set decorations and laying out his space to make sure that the video is enjoyable to watch, he builds analogs for fantasy items so he has somthing to handle and feel to make the conclusions he cines to more concrete. I could really go on and on.
All of this could be done to a much lower quality stabdard but because Shad takes pride in his work he puts in a ton of effort, and it makes for good quality videos. You may not like the recent content as much but that doesn't mean its lower quality.
@@jasoncp3257 It has gone significantly up in quality, *significantly* . The fact you may not like the specific themes talked about doesn't mean the quality has dropped.
I asked my wife to polish my medieval battle uniform while I go to the pub.
She always wanted a night in, shining armor.
Dumb joke. Take my like.
You dirty S.O.B.. You stole that laugh.
Wow! That pun is actually pretty good!
Ooh, that pun hurts so good...
🤦♂️😂👍
I practice, study and teach HEMA as a work, I have a channel exclusively about the subject since seven years and, being a niche topic (approached in an in-depth technical and tactical way) my channel reflects it.
The motivation why there are so much videos about weird subjects is simply because more people can enjoy it by comprehending the subject.
If I do a video on “How to land a second intention sword grab from a feinted thrust on the outside” only a few thousand people will find it enjoyable, maybe ten thousand if I’m lucky and my thumbnail is not so shitty as usual.
So I’m all honesty, it’s all about the subject and the audience.
Well you can at least be confident that I’d watch a video titled “how to land a second intention sword grab from a feinted thrust on the outside”. You’ve definitely taken a place in my favorite sword channels!
@@mythguard6865 thanks ^^ hehe
Love what you do Federico, one of the very best HEMA channels!
@@shadiversity thanks Shad
You have a great channel Federico,you have solid content on sword training and drills,keep it up man.
Hey it takes a lot of strength to swing an armchair
PARRY THIS SELLSWORD!!!!
I was part of a medieval recreationist group for a short time, and while I enjoyed learning about historically correct facets of medieval gear and heraldry and such I developed a great distaste for the overly serious "No, you can't do that, it's WRONG!" attitude.
They're called gatekeepers and you have them in every scene. My wife went to a metal festival and people told her that the band she was most excited for wasn't 'real metal'. I've had dudes in the climbing gym tell me I'm not a real climber because my shoes were 'only' 1 twothirds size smaller than my normal shoes.
@suckieduckie That's not gate keeping. The climbers wet snobs. The metal guy might have a valid point but is a jerk about it. Gate keeping is saying, "hey, you can join us but if you can't make a fuss and try to change our hobby. Enjoy it for what it is."
@@lanesmith1465that’s not gate-keeping my friend, that’s a normal fandom…
The point of the “gate-keeping” metaphor is that you’re literally barring or discouraging people from participating in your fandom.
@@The.Nasty. Any fandom needs a healthy amount of gatekeeing. Sometimes, you do have to tell people they aren't allowed to join the hobby.
You don't have to look any farther than D&D and how it's changed since the Tumblr crowd came in. Now the classic tropes, terms, and setting lore of D&D and broader fantasy are now "problematic."
@@lanesmith1465 my point is your definition of gate keeping is wrong. I’d guess because you’re okay with gate keeping…
Call a spade a spade, don’t hide behind flowery interpretations.
This was actually my problem with a lot of Swordtubers in the 2010s. It used to be the cool thing to point out when fantasy stuff doesn’t work, and in demonstrations you could tell they weren’t actually giving it a chance because they are going in expecting it to fail.
I much prefer content that tries to focus on how you could make it work, It’s a lot more fun to watch and satisfying. Like yeah we get it’s more awkward and isn’t fully efficient, but it takes more creativity to try and work around that than to just brush it off as unrealistic.
True, Shad was guilty of that himself, I remember when he bashed the double bladed sword, funnily with similar arguments like Daniel brought up. I appreciate the growth of his experiences and his views, that makes it much more enjoyable to watch
@@Chraan yeah, and a lot of the ones mentioned in this video (like Skallagrim and LindyBeige) did a lot of that style of “debunking fantasy” content, which there’s nothing wrong with; I just think it’s way more fun to to go “but can we make it work?” Than it is to go “nah, fantasy stupid, if it’s not historical it’s not worth trying.” A lot of Shad’s content these days is focused on making it work and I think his content has never been better and more creative because of it.
@@Duckman_Drake Finally! Someone like you man, I agree with absolutely everything you said. I know fiction is fiction, don't get me wrong, I'm not 6, but I find it way more intriguing to search for ways in which we can make fictional things work.
Essentially, bridging the gap between fantasy and reality, and redefining what's possible. Let's Go! 😁💪🏼🔥...
@@MiguelMedV when I was in high school I took an organic biology class and when the teacher asked each student why we took the class I straight up said in front of the whole class "learning science will make my fictional stories I create more interesting" Every fiction will of course have some level of a suspension of disbelief but if it's not grounded in SOMETHING and your answer is "it just is" then there's nothing interesting. One of the things I've created from using learning things back when I was in high school was a world that instead of a normal ozone layer that absorbed and dispersed the energy harmlessly it converted the stellar energy into magical energy making it so everything on the planet absorbs high amounts of magic. It's the difference between saying "he's super powerful with magic because he was born that way and he's crazy cause it's more fun that way" and "He's super powerful with magic cause he was born on a planet that it's atmosphere converts the energy of stars into magical energy and has 6 stars around it to maximize the effect. That's also has delusions of grandeur cause it's common for the young of his people to have a mana sickness with more magic in their body then they can properly handle while young" One of them feels like a childish power fantasy while the other has grounding in SOMETHING even though it's clearly not real. It really annoys me when people insist everything MUST have total realism...... sorry about the rant haha
Timesplitters. Respect.
I clicked this video thinking it’s portably just drama, but now that I have watched it, I think it contains a lot of very well made arguments, valid points and well explained counterpoints.
I am happy to see that you discuss matters in a very adult way, and that you get to the points you have without raising your voice.
I find the video quite entertaining and informative.
Thank you Shad.
You guys sound like ai but yeah i agree.
An hour long rant as a result from an untargeted 9 minute video? Theres nothing "adult" about this crap... shad saw that guys video and decided to take it as a personal attack... hes punching down on a smaller channel while sicking a mob of his followers on the faggy "sellsword" its extremely childish.
Heaven forbid a man should raise his voice in defense of himself. These days, if you show any emotion angrier than disappointment, you're considered a villain. What a world we live in.
Yeah, I assumed the same at first but I also ended up concluding that it's been made clear here that Sellsword has a major ego problem and is starting to cross some serious lines of decorum . To be fair though I've seen a lot of young men behave that way and eventually mature out of it (myself included to be honest), in that sense David is fortunate that Shad is choosing to calmly address the issue and not retaliate with more personal attacks. Hopefully he'll take advantage of this to learn, grow and be a better member of the community.
If you came here expecting drama instead of reasoned and civil discourse, then you clearly don't know Shad very well. This video is pretty par for the course whenever he becomes the target of thoughtless or insincere criticism. When he receives thoughtful criticism with valid points, he accepts it with grace and tries to address the issues and improve. Truly the mark of a man of honor and integrity.
Anyway, welcome to the channel! If you appreciated the approach in this video, I think you'll enjoy yourself here.
Dear Shad, I would like to expand on the part about overhead thrust and blocking the weapon. You guys correctly noticed that david used short handle. And you mentioned that you could fight with this weapon like polarm. But then you didn't underline one very important difference. Using HEMA weapons almost never require changing the grip. But with polearm you do that constantly! If you don't, you get results that David got. Changing the grip is key for proper use and bit of inpredictability.
I was thinking the same thing. Even with a short grip that they were using, you could adapt longsword techniques to bypass a static block like that and strike with the other blade. They way they did the test was like when Aikido teachers show how to counter punches. Yeah, it works, but only if your opponent is an incompetent moron.
@@kolbywilliams7234 ironic those two being incompetent is a requirement and basis for the belief that shad and others are incompetent. Even more ironic that they literally went out of their way to make a "bad" version of a 2 handed blade, and then claimed it "couldn't thrust" when it is probably the only thing it could do well. Even more so, the fact the thrust was the best part of the weapon in the real spars.
@@eon2330
I don’t think you know what ironic means. You should really look up the definition to words that you think will make you sound smart before you use them. When you use them incorrectly, it has the opposite effect.
My point is that they were being too accommodating in the test, not that they were genuinely incompetent, so on top of learning what irony means, you should also learn how to read. Without proper resistance, you don’t get results that are reflective of reality. So just like in martial arts, if you just let someone do whatever they want, or limit yourself in possible ways to respond to a threat, you aren’t really testing a technique. All you’re doing in that situation is confirming your own bias. That’s essentially what was happening here in the video because they acted like changing their grip was practically impossible when it wasn’t.
You mean "unpredictability?"
one thing I've learned as a military vet and martial artist, you can have all formal training in the world, all the manuals, but at the end of the day no amount of skill and time is gonna stop a novice from being just as dangerous when it comes to melee. At our club we had a saying "the new guy is more dangerous than the veteran cause you dont know what they will do." That said, just because its a double bladed sword doesnt mean you have to always use it as a sword, my buddy who is the biggest chrono cross fan ever in my opinion loves double bladed swords because of the Swallow weapon in that game, and he notoriously at tourneys will vault backwards from a bind, use the hand on the back grip, and thrust 2/3's the lenght of the weapon right into the target he just disengaged from. Another move he loves to do which makes the HEMA boys so angry is he will literally hold it like he about to break a rack of pool balls, then when they slap it away because of the sheer amount of force he put into said thrust, jerk it into a vertical overhand cut and just smash right through any attempt at a block/parry and even in protective gear having that double handed blade with all that leverage slam into ya shoulder/ collarbone sucks. and I love how salty they get when they tell him "well thats not a historical move!" and he will go "last i checked if we were trying to kill each other, your not going home tonight."
i also think that when you are in the heat of the "battle" how much training are you going to remember and properly execute. the blood is pumping, adrenaline dumping.
"The best battle tactics are taught by the winners"
Also when people do it in full armor its funny that it normally ends in a wrestling match and the man who can get under his opponent and onto the ground is the winner.
Your friend sounds badass.
@@als3022 that too, Shad has done a pretty good job with his armor videos of proving that point, blades against proper armor over gambeson dont do well at all, and its the blunt weapon swung hard or who can beat the other dude bare handed into concussion soup during a wrestling match.
Y'know, I've kind of been falling off watching Shadiversity lately. Just time and topics that dont specifically interest me, I suppose, but watching this reminds me of why I love you guys. I have so much respect for how you guys handle criticism, and it's actually helped shape my own techniques and practices when criticizing or thinking critically. The way you guys do stuff means something to the little guys like me. And you should know it.
Look again. Shads entire approach to dealing with criticism is "nuh uh, I'm a professional, let me list all the reasons I'm right."
Shad Jones, professional swordsman, professional writer, professional artist that's just as good as is brother....🙄
@@Reverendshot777 Look again, just about all said in this video adds up and was handled well.
@@suntheimmortal7984 We have a few from the other location, and they are tamer than they are on their own channel.
@@als3022 Neat, indeed.
You know Sensei Seth? He’s a guy that’s been doing karate for his whole life. He doesn’t do boxing, fencing, or kung fu. Yet his videos on the different styles he’s learning for the first time are informative. Are there TH-camrs better at explaining these styles than Seth? Yes. Doesn’t make him a bad source of information though
Yes but the difference here is Seth is an experienced martial artist who is actively learning new martial arts. That’s not what Shad does. Shad just does experiments for fun.
@@lustrazor44Shad does a lot more than just do experiments for fun, you just haven't bothered to look beyond the few videos you browsed before coming to the comments to argue.
@@lustrazor44 Seth does experiment. His last video was trying to see if you can fight just by reading books
@@shocktnche doesn’t have a 10 year base in martial arts before said experimentation .
Seth us a karate teacher learning other martial arts. He had to get good enough to teach karate to do that? Does it make sense?
@@Awesombynature Shad does have martial arts experience.
I like the balance you all strike between historical accuracy, practical application, and fantasy fun. It’s what makes your channel dynamic and interesting. And I appreciate that you understand that written primary sources are important, but not the whole story.
As a lover of the Middle Ages, whenever anyone accepts only written sources I squirm. There is SO much about the Middle Ages we cannot know from the surviving written sources. That’s why I love people like Jason Kingsley who take what information we have, apply regular human reasoning, and then go test a theory to see what knowledge he can glean. And you all do that often, too. It’s my favorite kind of content!
And I’ve never felt like you weren’t upfront and honest about whatever test you were conducting at the time. Any additional caveats or disclaimers and we would enter the realm of extreme tedium.
Haha, but, oh goodness. Nothing like a young fellow accuses more seasoned men of not having the proper experience. That’s a classic. 😂
As a former active duty soldier, the saying "If you don't do the art, you cannot talk about how to do the art..." makes me facepalm. I like to watch quite a few content creators in the Sword Community, and they all bring something to the table, either through practice, testing, and application, or various degrees of historical references. They are all valid. I also watch many content creators in the Gun Community such as Garand Thumb, Brandon Herrera, Demolition Ranch, and others. Who do literally the same things with firearms as the Community of the Sword does with medieval weaponry. Sometimes things get silly, sometimes things get ridiculous. But it is entertainment. Entertainment that allows us to learn something new.
SellswordArts needs to focus on the content he wants to make. Not focus on the view counts of others. Jealousy and Envy are not good emotions to foster.
Nailed it
And many of the gun toober guys are very very close. And none of them (outside Paul Harrel) say things are stupid or not worthy of hearing out. Paul’s ire is directed not towards the fellow gun tube community, but at idiots at the range who think they know more than they do and ultimately become unsafe
Hear, hear!
Amen. I like David's content a lot but, anymore, I get a level of arrogance that usually comes with unironically posting a video titled "How to counter a lack of skill" after getting beaten soundly by a non-practitioner.
Not like he'd be too dead to make excuses in a real swordfight😂😂
Is it David or Damian? 😂
I love Shad's sass
This is one of the reasons I respect you so much. You respond to criticism only when you feel it necessary, you don't shy away from politics but don't shove it down people's throats(this goes for religion too) and always aims for a dialogue of professional respect for everyone's ideas. It's great and I wish we see more of it in the world.
i dont like religion and politics being injected in to videos that arent religious or political, JoergeSprave went a bit pro ukraine in a video which annoyed a lot of people, and some survivalist videos go very right wing and pro trump, the Knightswatch channel gets a bit religious and political and honestly i dont watch any more, but im very glad Shad keeps his religion and politics out of Shadiversity for the most part.....
@@neoaliphantAll of this is why I still keep a sub to Shadiversity and watch a decent number of the videos, but steer clear of Knights Watch. He and I have, shall we say, *very* different political views, but swords and machinations are something I can get behind!
@@TheKazragore im right there with you
@@TheKazragore and he's not the kind of guy to shame you for your beliefs. That's really the thing that makes him a good guy despite my own political differences with him.
If you've never slain a man in real life sword combat, then you aren't allowed to talk about the effectiveness of swords! Come on, Shad, we all know this! /s
Unironically yes. The entire HEMA community is theoretical as it stands. Only men alive today with experience using swords in combat are UK roadmen.
@@aceambling7685People from areas of Africa where they fight with machetes are also likely a good resource
@@aceambling7685I remember when the corporate news said it's dangerous to get our information from anywhere else because muh democracy. I remember Brian stelter the little man with the high voice and his desperate rants about fake news. 😅 There's more similarity between sellsword arts and Brian stelter than there is between sellsword arts and Musashi.
@@dizasteroid7 if you had reading comprehension you would see that my comment applies to Sellsword as well.
we need darth maul.
Personally I think you guys should set up a duel as a fun way to settle the beef between you two, either that or accept his invitation to a livestream
sellsword would decimate him, not even a fair fight. one of the points gone over in his video is how he fences and shad does not.
@@jonathanfisher9312 whoever wins or loses it’s still a good way to not only get a ton of views from your community but also set aside beef that really wasn’t too serious to begin with, not only that but getting to know someone that shares the same interests as you
@@jonathanfisher9312Agreed
@@jonathanfisher9312 I just want to add some nuance to that
as shown in this video, Shad DOES fence, but he does not:
-fences as intensively
-participates in competitive field
-follow strictly the HEMA treaties
BUT, unless sellswordArts means that only experts of HEMA get to talk (professionals I mean), then it's even worse than what Shad was criticizing (which I don't think Sell meant to say). Sellsword claiming he doesn't fence is either misinformation from him or you only count if you do it like HE wants you to.
The reason why Shad would probably lose is that he's less skilled in pure HEMA (which is the only thing that matters in a HEMA duel) and in much worse shape (older, health issues, fatter, etc.)
Someone who is intentionally taking bits and pieces that prove their point and not using whole videos is someone who is dishonest and will not accept any challenges or whatever because they know that they are likely to lose. I am not going to sit here and watch an hour-long video. I came here from sellsword arts, so unless someone can provide me time stamps that show this guy is doing different things from what sellsword arts claims he is doing, this is the sum total comments I will leave on this channel because I am not going interact with people who lie so blatantly
ah yes, because Sellswords have been so well known for their honor and honesty. No one has ever had criticisms for mercenaries. (That's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, not hostile.)
Fight me
@@t2av159 Asking to fight someone because they said someone you don't agree with makes you look stupid.
....what would that accomplish? You would probably win, and we'd both have wasted time, it would have no effect on the degree of truth found in the above statement. @@t2av159
@@Rob_Lucci_
They're not gonna literally duel
@@Rob_Lucci_ you want some too? Fight me
Something I'd like to point out is that he's quite clearly stating in his video that anyone who doesn't practice the art *of fencing* shouldn't talk about swordplay. (note at 15:20 in this video, where the clip of Sellsword has him saying "we're going to look at it from the viewpoint of a fencer- people who actually do this, and fight with these things." )
There's just one teensy little glaring flaw with that statement:
_Fencing isn't the only form of swordplay._ Kendo is a Japanese martial art known for using bamboo swords for sparring. Does Japanese swordplay not count as swordplay for him? Heck, is HEMA (Historic European Martial Arts) not a form of swordplay? (Modern fencing is _very_ different from the fencing depicted in the oldest surviving manuscripts describing fencing, so HEMA is definitely not just a subset of fencing.)
Chinese swordsmanship is also quite separate from fencing... Does it not count as swordsmanship due to not being fencing?
For that matter, Africa, India, Arabia, Turkey, and countless other parts of the world also have distinctive forms of swordplay that are completely separate from fencing.
Fencing is _one_ specific combat sport. It is nowhere _near_ encompassing the entirety of the concept of swordsmanship. It's a drop of water in an entire lake of information. His blatant attempts to tell non-fencers to not talk about swordsmanship is not only laughably self-assured, cocky, and prideful, but _disturbingly_ naïve at _best,_ and an actively malicious attack on the swordsmanship community at worst.
I'm not going to defend his viewpoints, but I do think it might be relevant to mention that it's become very common in modern sword and HEMA communities to call any swordsman a "fencer", not just people who perform the combat sport that those people then differentiate as "modern fencing".
I definitely agree with your comment, though I think he was referring to the "fencer" as a "classical fencer", who actively practices with a sword to learn historical swordsmanship.
He's young. He'll probably look back and laugh at himself in a few years. I do it all the time now.
I remember a loooooong time ago, I think it was Skallagrim, who was talking about Gatekeeping in the community. In this video (it may be Lindy, or even yours! I can't recall, honestly) the argument went that there's a sections in the "HEMA" community (the term was used to broadly describe the sword fighting community, not specifically HEMA) only consider people to be "real" swordsman if they're using real, full-tang, steel swords. The creator didn't name names, and they didn't even imply they were content creators, nor did they say these people didn't know what they were talking about.
This was years ago. Probably even a decade by now? It feels like another life at this point, but it was such a strange thing for me to grasp. Swordtube is a comparatively small community. Sure, Shad's got 1.7~ million subs (at time of writing). But that's barely a fraction of people on the planet, even on the internet -- so, you would imagine, when you're working within such a niche realm of interest, that espousing an opinion, forming a rhetoric, that invalidates or disparages methods exploring that niche would be the very last thing you'd be doing.
Like, I could appreciate the sentiment of "oh this is a weird nerdy niche, we should take and present this seriously to avoid mockery of the hobby", it's something Shad's touched on in his Mall Ninja videos, with the apex cringelord weapons. That there is a stage of this where you are vulnerable to being super fucking cringe, Naruto Running around with arm blades designed like sharks... but also that that's *ok* to go through. As long as your interest matures alongside you, there's nothing wrong with having that point in your life where you bought an 800$ katana-scythe at your local strip mall, off the wall of a Hot Topic, because *everyone* has an entry point. For some people it's mall ninja-dom, for some it's anime, for some it's larping or lord of the rings or star wars or reenactments or *whatever.*
Now, some odd years later, Sellsword's gone mask off. He's given me the full context for a video that never even remotely implicated him, by just being exactly the kind of alienating presence that video was calling out.
I got into fencing as a sport because I saw Kenshin as a kid, and I had a friend was into fencing and told me sword fighting was totally something you could do IRL, and he got into fencing because of *The Princess Diaries* and his master was into fencing because of *Highlander.* I got into Kendo after 3 years of Fencing when I learned katana fighting and rapier fighting as a matter of martial sport were academically different. I spent my entire high school years doing fencing, kendo, dungeons and dragon, anime club, and theatre -- over a summer me and some friends took some "Lightsaber Dueling" courses in Boston (which really just amounted to learning the choreography from the films). I was fighting with swords well into my adult life as a fun distraction -- my GATE WAY to it being pop culture.
Because in *ALL* this time I've spent, not a *SINGLE* person I have ever met who practices this stuff, even at the professional level, people who wanted to go OLYPIC with their aspirations, ever got into this because they wanted to treat this swordstuff like it's real life, like other avenues of study were invalid just because they were "ridiculous". The only people I knew who did that, were masters who were in deep financial competition with other masters, who *didnt* hold those values, and *those* masters tended to be miserable people, losing heaps of business to masters who were more than happy to embrace people who wanted to do anime shit.
It's almost as if being exclusionary within a niche isn't healthy for that niche, both in personal profitability, and for the community as a whole.
Man, I remember that video. I knew I had a feeling we'd done this whole song and dance before
I am a nerd, I love nerd content, I don’t understand why people are so up tight about something that is clearly done for fun.
Most people got into this stuff like you said by watching a movie, or anime that made them want to learn more.
Do you mean "Princess Bride" ?
I'd have to go and watch his actual video's but from his clips Sellsword doesn't strike me as fitting a lot of his own criteria. Yes, they are holding "real" swords, but the way they are holding them and using them in some of those examples doesn't feel all that real. Partly because they look like they are afraid of hurting themselves or each other. And certain of his movements look like sloppy imitations to a few Fencer's and other kinds of sword fighters that i've watched. Like perhaps he's either new to it or on the lower end of things.
But then if he is entirely HEMA focused and HEMA has the problem that it's entirely wrapped up in rather rigid institutional History of a sort. Meaning that it will not deviate at all from these training manuals, most of which are meant for bringing in lower or no skill individuals and give them some skill rather than to be primarily used and adapted by high skilled users. Then maybe that is not surprising.
An Example that just sticks out to me is one of the first ones that Shad actually goes into. Changing the length of the grip would not matter. Yet historically, Widenening, thinninging, lengthening, and shortening the grip are ways that swords were changed to change their usability and combat options when using that weapon. So saying his short grip is completely the same with the same capability as Shad's is complete garbage. This is something that screams less understanding and practical skill and more imitation.
22:33 Miyamoto Musashi one of the greatest swordsmen in history fought in a very unconventional way that made other samurai of the time extremely angry and often extremely dead! So I don’t think you can criticise someone for haven’t an unconventional technique in fighting arts. Keep up the good work Shad and gang. 👍🏻
If Musashi can win a sword fight with a boat paddle, surely I can train with a foam sword, right?
@@theKashConnoisseur But was Musashi a practitioner of the art of the paddle? It sounds like he might not be an expert I should listen to base more on that and less on that he's long passed. 🤣🤣🤣 We can at least learn from Sasaki Kojiro. Never bring a sword to a paddle fight.
Thanks Sellsword for making strawman tests on the double-bladed sword thus pushing Shad to make more content on this weapon. What a madlad.
Actually I too noticed that a lot of shad's recent vids are just talking and less uhh quality? than before? But im just a regular viewer not paying anything hahahaa.
@@the-core-experience Shad's videos have always mostly been talking, I don't know what you mean with "quality". If anything practice tests have highly increased over the years, if that is what you mean with quality.
@@the-core-experienceMore talking = less quality? I guess you're new to the channel? To think Shad talking a lot is a recent thing. 🤣
Frankly - dude has 75-ish% of Shad's subs but rarely gets 10k views, it's likely intentional drama alert to improve his algorithm.
@@8ligh7 No, no, talking is talking, testing is testing, the drop in quality that i meant is more talking than testing, imo ofc. I didn't subscribe to anything where he might had exclusive stuffs. I also had watched him when he did the old armor reviews thing so I get that he likes to talk.
Nearly all of us are here BECAUSE of fantasy type content and media. Imagine the shock of seeing someone TEST a fantasy weapon
not surprised i end up here, watching rpg games and knife or sharpening stuff
The absolute scandal.
I'm here because of historical stuff I never really liked fantasy too much. I do enjoy Chad's channel he's a good guy and all.
@@Teutonic__Knight I like both, historical stuff is cool and realistic, fantasy stuff is unrealistic but thats part of what makes it cool. I mean Warhammers chainsaw sword in reality wouldn't really work very well, but its a sword and a chainsaw combined, thats freaking awesome.
ngl i ended up into this stuff because of using scythes for combat
I don't agree with Shad on quite a few personal things, but when it comes to stating historical facts or sharing results from testing they are actually physically doing....you can't discredit them or the work and knowledge they share. Not every good teacher has flawless hands-on experience with their subject, just the appropriate knowledge to discuss it.
it's also just a bad idea to hold that standard as you inevitably will make a mistake
so maybe don't word it like hari kiri is only reasonable recourse
It's not about who Shad is, just that his methodology has been pretty consistently lacking for achieving those results.
As far as tests are concerned his channel peaked early with his videos on the viability of shooting a bow with with a Mediterranean Draw and an arrow of rhe outside of the bow. Everything else has been pretty lackluster as far as contributing to the understanding of "medieval" weaponry.
@@leonardomarquesbelliniSpeak for yourself. I’ve learned plenty, laughed a lot and have enjoyed his content immensely.
@@leonardomarquesbellinii'm pretty sure TH-cam videos fall under entretaiment, go read a history paper for advancements on a field of study
In the end, it is all for fun
I love that you guys make videos on weapons from movies, games, anime, etc. I’m a writer, so it is SUPER helpful to see and know how many of these fictional type weapons would or wouldn’t work. The practicality behind them, benefits, downsides, everything you guys discuss really helps me as I craft together my own characters weapons and gear. Thanks for all your work guys! I can’t wait to see what you have planned next!! 😁
If you're not a true double-bladed swordsman, you cannot talk about double-bladed swords.
If you are not a sword, you cannot talk about swords.
@@FraternityOfShadows If you’re not the concept of swordsmanship do not comment on swordsmanship
@@awesomesauce4758if you are not a concept, your opinion on concepts is invalid
If you are not Jewish, you don't get to have an option on the Holocaust
If you are not a politician, you cannot comment on government policies
I love the idea he's presenting. By saying if you don't do it, you can't talk about it, he's saying that no matter how much research and time you put into understanding something, you shouldn't talk about it. He's essentially making the case that no Historian should ever talk about History, since we haven't done the things we talk about 90% of the time. Which is ironic, since its mostly historians keeping the older forms of swordsmanship alive by preserving and analyzing old manuals, manuscripts, paintings etc. His entire thing wouldn't exist without the people who talk about but don't do the thing
And ironically he doesn't do actual swordfighting, he does fencing, which uses special swords specifically made for sport.
@@shocktncExactly. He knows about A SPORT. Shad does what early MMA fighters did, try things and see what worked.
@@valrondits the "kungfu master" scam. Sellsword literally is the merchant known for peddling snake oil.
so basically he is a disney feminist 😂
@@rhetorical1488 No idea what that's supposed to mean or how you extrapolated that
Swords are entertainment. This is the modern age. No one relies on a sword to survive their day. It's no different than discussing any other hobby topic. Getting bent out of shape and criticizing each other just comes off as snobbish. Always love you Shad.
yup. I've been given shit by hema practitioners because I picked up olimpic fencing. hema isn't the "superior" form of swordmanship, it's just a sport. it's like harping about how tennis is superior to table tennis.
@@eugenio5774and really important thing in my opinion is that every single sport is unique. You can not compare sports categories if they have the same "props" in it. Hema can not be compared to olympic fencing the same way football/soccer can not be compared to volleyball. Yes, both have swords in it, yes, both have balls in it, buts its totally different and incomparable
Well, Sellsword is a shilib and will use any avenue of attack he can to take a shot at his ideological adversary, no matter how underhanded and hypocritical it is. And his fellow shilibs will look the other way and back him up. The shilib doesn't have honor and will do anything to win. Anything.
Until we invent lightsabers that is...
@@makvande576Genuine question, what's a shilib? Like is it a variation of 💩 lib?
It's sad to see someone attack intellectual curiosity on a topic where *most* of the authoritative knowledge has been lost to time, especially someone with such a narrow scope of expertise. It's like a semi-pro target archer trying to invalidate all of the experimentation that went into speed shooting.
Calling Shad an armchair warrior is highly inaccurate. He hasn't done a video from his armchair in a very long time!
It's a throne dammit lol 😂
I have yet to see anyone, get into a duel with their armchairs 😂
Yeah, not since he got surgery to help him breath better so he can be more active like he always wanted to be but couldn't with his health issues.
@@RussOlson-nk3wccrippled jousting?
Its terribly accurate...
When attending traing in Ninjutsu (Bujinkan-Style) we were always open to learn anything new that we possibly could. So even when a white belt discovered a new perspective or mechanic of a technique the person was brought in front of everyone to teach us. That way I learned a lot better. I find this a particulary unique way to learn the art. It is more humble and apreciative to others. I like this more than listening only to master alone, because even our master admitted to have learned something new in some cases.
People WHO believe that a master knows everything about his stuff is absolutely wrong about humans and even the world, in my opinion.
Whenever someone has decided to paint themselves as the "arbiter of truth and authenticity", that is someone you should avoid.
Especially when it comes to putting down others as opposed to conversing with them and challenging them.
But doesn't Shad do that?
@@guywholikesheelies3231No. In-fact, he openly admits when he is wrong in multiple videos, some videos fully dedicated to when he was mistaken.
Edit: spelling
He also did have a smugness to him that I had to learn how to swallow. That and he's not quite as big shit as he thinks. He has a tendency to go after low-hanging fruit.
Actually, given his height, that makes sense.
@@guywholikesheelies3231 , no, Shad has never done so. He has never claimed that he is the "person who has the sole or absolute power of judging or determining". (See the Dictionary definition of "arbiter".) Shad has held strong opinions, backed up by logic, real-time tests, and historical facts (as appropriate). There is a difference between stating and supporting an opinion, and telling others, "HERE'S TO WHOM YOU SHOULD, OR SHOULD NOT, LISTEN". Shad has never held himself or his channel up as the sole determinants of truth.
It was actually MatPat's video that got me into swords and Medieval combat. I wanted to see just how much of what he said was right and found Skalligrim and it was just downhill from there!
What matpat video was this?
@iBetThisNameWillWork Vikings vs. Samurai vs. Knights.
I found Shad that way. Same video.
Can you put a link to said video?
@@FishNamedWall th-cam.com/video/gwoGVWgK8v8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=o5ZJzEvtIRjnIcQw
Using pop culture as a base to build off or as away to get people interested in something is so common in nearly every field because it works and it's fun
pop means popular, that is a momentary snapshot of the traction of something and still is subject to its market share compared to the competition and their traction.
case in point: star wars lololol
some people create pop culture because they happen to be the tastemaker, kind of hard to accuse those for riding on pop culture they created lol
@@dutchdykefinger What?
Shad casually taking a stroll while resting his double bladed abomination of a sword is my new favourite ASMR
Saaaaaame
Honestly could watch him walk in circles for at least an hour. It is like walking down the street with a friend and having a chat.
This is actually a cool content idea. Have a background set built in a circle, and just have someone talk and walk circles around the camera.
Double sword can be very effective.
Jealousy is toxic. Thankfully it has been largely absent among the community of the sword. I think a lot of that goes out to how Shad and Skall and, in the earlier days, Matt Easton, handled interpersonal conflict and debate. I hope that the community continues to be a place where everyone is welcome to nerd out about swords.
In this case it will be not jelousy... it is more like... pride?
@@kara9543Deeply ironic that PRIDE is the issue with sellsword (if you know you know)
@@shocktnc I don´t know him, but from that short clip I saw some similarities with some people from our community. Very knowledgable, but also with a huge ego
In calligraphy world, same problema, litigations and bias... What a pity 😢
@@ssstegelthere’s cat fights in calligraphy content?
Your comments about criticizing without naming names are spot on and true in any industry or social network. Being 'nice' by being coy and making allusions while refusing to give specific names is a cowardly act of creating plausible deniability by muddying the waters which only sows confusion and strife within the network. Anyone that did it would be called out and distrusted going forward.
There's a difference between confidence and arrogance...
Arrogant creators grow fast but fall faster due to controversy they themselves often create.
There's wisdom in this Chinese proverb.
@@dylanmulvaney9912wtf😂
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Yeah.... cussing at people in the comment section of your video is pretty tasteless.
@@TonyGonzales2just put of curiosity what happened. Ive been out of the loop for some time with shad and the inly major drama ive seen him in has been about the side of the bow you draw on.
I've followed this guy for a few months now, and the instant i saw that video i saw this coming. He's always been pretty arrogant, but that was definitely going over the line. Just wasn't sure when the inevitable backlash was coming. HEMA is by its very nature, conjecture. All armchair historians in some way contribute to the discussion.
You can think of all the technique you ever learn, but shit will be different if you know you could die in the duel.
Unless he duel without armor on using his so call expert sword technique, I'm not convinced /j
Plenty of examples in history. The French were supposedly the best standing army in the world in 1940... lost in 6 weeks. The NATO doctrine of how to perform attacks just failed in Ukraine due to way more mines than accounted for in the doctrine and millions of drones overhead that see every little thing. Fighter pilots in WW1 making everything up on the fly because there simply WASNT a doctrine yet on how to do that stuff.
Other weapons, other challenges, new types of doing things ALWAYS forced armies, fighters, duelists to adapt and learn new things. "This is how you do it and everything else is wrong" is an idiotic stance to have where combat is concerned. Such a strict "right and wrong" style of fighting attitude has never worked at any place or time in history. Combat has always evolved, and competent fighters were not the ones just learning the techniques, they were the ones throwing the book out the window and improving on it by trying something new.
The master is not the one reading the book, the master is the one writing it, because he figured out that the old book was stupid.
@@LeutnantJoker best comment on war ALWAYS changes
The best laid plans seldom survive first contact with the enemy
@@MilitaryHistory1bethesda would like to know your location
Shad's constant inability to remember if the chap's name is "David" or "Daniel" is probably the most hilarious put-down imaginable, and I don't even think it was intentional, which makes it better.
Lol i was thinking the same😂
Shad? More like Chad.
I get the feeling he did it on purpose at least once.
@@BrandonWendt2 As a David myself i can assure you that people just mess this up unintentionally all the time. It's no big deal really ...
As a Daniel myself, I, too, can assure you that people mess this up unintentionally all the time. It happens to me about half the time I meet new people.
I guess he does not realize that like 99% of the audience isn't an actual fencer or fighting with swords on a daily basis. We are just nerds who like swords.
Exactly. The most I have is Larp swords and I just like watching cause it's like.. oooooo real pointy thing😂
I also love how SellswordArts's demonstration double bladed long-sword was taped at the handles to minimize all handling capacity of the weapon and handed off to an assistant who was transparently attempting to fumble the ball. I'm no master swordsman but there are ways to intentionally set up your staged result without deliberately revealing that you're taking the piss.
Yup. Deliberate sabotage doesn't make the point true. Shad made several experiments with the double blade and multiple testing for at least optimal and very viable combat effectiveness if the double bladed long sword was actually made into a real weapon.
There's a certain boxing quote I recall:
"Everyone is vulnerable when they punch. _I'm_ vulnerable when I punch."
Pick any kind of sword technique. From a mordhau to a simple thrust. I guarantee you can set up an experiment that will make it seem utterly useless.
If someone claims a technique "can't work", it says more about them than the technique in question.
their tests were the pinnacle of what people mock in "Bullshido" demonstrations lmao
The (edit) toxic gatekeepers logic:
Unless you are actively in the business of making movies, you shouldn't talk about movies.
Unless you are a professional chef, you shouldn't critique food.
Unless you play professionally, you shouldn't talk about sports.
Unless you are a writer, you can't critique books.
Unless you fought with medieval weapons in actual medieval warfare, you shouldn't talk about its usefulness as a weapon.
Unless you have been on an adventure, you should not talk about adventuring.
Doesn't seem like a gatekeeping problem. Communities can't exist without some gatekeeping. This guy just seems to lack ANY level of nuance and ability to understand other people's content and takes. It's a superiority complex and elitism, more like
That's not gatekeeping, that's elitism. Every community should have a level of gatekeeping because it prevents people from poking their heads in, getting things changed to suit them, and abandoning the people who were originally in the community in the first place. New people who enjoy a hobby/community for what it is are welcome and the gate, as it were, is open for them.
Gatekeeping is making sure the area you're talking about isn't changed from what it is. You will have people who haven't done everything be part of it. It's Elitism to say you must have done everything.
Not what he was saying. He was saying if you want to learn how to actually use or know how these weapons are used, you should watch or study under people who actually practice the art. Which is literally true for anything.
@@bobbertbobberson6725 yeah elitists are a problem cause there just puritans or pharisees those who claim perfection is less than nothing a particularly useless and hypocritical argument
When someone calls "fencers" or "hema practitioners" "the real" swordmanship pros, you can hear the metallic echoes of gauntleted facepalms of thousands hmb and buhurt enjoyers.
An average boy whore with a sword could beat a "hema practicioner", aye
Hema practitioners when they experience "anything goes in battle" and its gun-fu: Nooooo 😭 (insert wojak face)
@sunnynight6440Then why don't you come do it then
@sunnynight6440fencing is a joke.
anyone trying to compare hobbies is a joke
Edit:
Ok, I only just now found the back and forth of response videos of both, Shad and David, and I've got to say that what started as a misunderstandjng/misrepresentation turned into unnecessary petty YT drama.
Just tałk it out, guys. Not in your videos. Have an actual conversation, and do a video about that.
From where I stand it looks like you might get along just fine.
-----
Original:
Just imagine the firearms related TH-cam, if shooting at official competitions would be the single most important requirement you'd need to meet in order validate your opinion.
No Garand Thumb, no Kenntucky Ballistics, no Demolition Ranch, no Brandon Herrera - they'd be gone, along with most other guntubers, their knowledge, experiences and perspectives.
Even Jonathan Ferguson (firearm historian; Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum, UK) wouldn't qualify to talk about firearms under those standards, for he is probably among the ones who are furthest from "practicing the art".
David's opinion, while he's still free to have it, is elitist, narrow-minded gatekeeping bs that serves no purpose (apart from creating drama, i. e. clicks).
I am sure Mat and Brandon did shoot in competetion - both ended dead last :D but yea, i do understand and agree with your point.
Honestly imagine it in guitar related videos, if Herman Li (Dragonforce) would say anything like that - if you are unable to play 200bpm solo you cannot talk about it.
It is completely the level of stupidity, when you critisize anything and first response you get "OH YEA, SO SHOW ME HOW YOU CAN DO IT BETTER THAN!!!!"
@@histkontext Exactly. It applies to practically everything, and is equally stupid regardless of the context.
Oh, i got a better one:
Imagine Buzz Aldrin saying, "Don't talk about the moon, unless you've been there." 🤣
Well, to be fair firearms channels often get into disputes over qualifications as well. For instance, there's a large portion of the pro-firearms community that believes the only individuals qualified to speak on marksmanship and other training endeavors must be military combat veterans. One recent example was when GBRS Group and T-Rex Arms had some public disagreements, with former veterans like Garand Thumb speaking up for T-Rex Arms and the quality of their instructional content.
Which is why I boycotted that video HARD. Even before Shad's reply. I know click-bait manipulation when I hear it and I refuse to reward it.
@@theKashConnoisseur Of course. You can see it everywhere.
Disagreement in itself is a good thing.
There are always different points of view and mindsets of which multiple sides of the argument can benefit from in a variety of situations.
But not realizing that you're severely limiting not just yourself, but also the people you're trying to teach, simply by fully subscribing to only one school of tbought and disregarding absolutely everything else, is not disagreeing. It's just childish "my kung fu is the only one true form".
And I simply cannot comprehend how people come to that conclusion, other than by a severe lack of experience, or utter ignorance regarding the origins of the stuff they think they know so well.
HEMA is fantastic but Sellsword seems to present fencing as combat. Fencing is a sport. The manuscripts we train from were primarily made for people just like ourselves, hobbyists who want to spar within a competitive rule set.
We don't want to confuse "swordsmanship" with "fencing". Fencing is a sport for fun and training, swordsmanship is combat with a sword. Real combat.
This is not the case. There are manuals both for sport and for "to the death" fighting. Some sources have both (Fiore).
@@TimaHzTV thats what "primarily" means.
The masters themselves and maybe 2% of students would ever see a duel in their life. Their schools were businesses, and the bills were paid by hobbyists.
On top of that, dueling is only one type of tiny, heavily governed combat. Its not the battlefield, its not self defense, it doesn't represent every way to fight with a sword. Its a very specific skill set. Your ability to duel in tournaments is not the only criteria when talking about swords.
I watched more of his video and sellsword conflates the word fencing with swordsmanship very often, im pretty convinced he thinks fencing is the be all end all of sword fighting.
@@gainsofglory6414 50/50 on that. Like, you can say that, but it is true for every activity, but active participation in battles(which are not about personal skill at all), skirmishes, etc. Nothing can fully prepare, but martial skills are somewhat transferable.
Duels were not always regulated. And were not regulated in a same way.
Also, Montante manuals teach mostly not dueling. Marozzo and other bolognese masters talk about self-defence and street fights, so I presume does Fiore (didn't read). The proportion of duel/sport/"general fighting" is not so obvious to me.
@@TimaHzTV but we arent talking about what manuals exist and their contents. There are treatises for all kinds of things. Armor, no armor, pole arms, swords of different types, dueling, self defense, battlefield, etc.
90% of HEMA today is focused on just a few treatises, which are your typical longsword, duel oriented ones. Thats what I mean by "primarily".
I'm just saying that fencing is not the only analog to sword based combat.
Sell: "Stop not fencing! Stop using multiple techniques! Stop having fun!"
Shad: "No."
Yes. Shad does a rough version of science.
How do new techniques come.
it through screw around to see what works and doesn't work.
Like grab a sword with a glove. Or pocket sand. Or use a flint lock.
Shad is also the one to do stress tests on various types of swords including Katanas.
SellSword is a HEMA and stage fencer but constantly conflates this to being a historical sword fighter, HEMA is dueling, modern hema praticianers are are fencers who spar like they are dueling.
AKA HEMA is not how people actually fought historically, its how they dueled historically, hema practitioners are just historical fencers, they are not 'sword fighters' or 'historical martial artists' despite that being what hema is an acronym for.
Modern HEMA fencers are usually terrible at fighting when compared to LARPers or martial artists, because they are not fighters, they just spar for points.
YOUR FUN IS WRONG!!!! 😫😠😭😫😠😭
@@Nioclas64 HEMA is the american "kungfu master" crap anyway no real swordplay its just like WWE fun spectacle no real fighting.
Moral of the story:
If you're going to call out other people for stupid mistakes and lack of experience, you'd better make sure YOU can't get called out for those same things.
But how would an inexperienced person making a stupid mistake know well enough to avoid doing it? Kind of a catch22 there.
@@matohibiki Unfortunately, yes. Pardon my street lingo, but:
Sometimes a fool just gotta get told.
@@matohibiki by not being hubristic and understanding you probably do not fully master something as a newcomer?
try humility
@@dutchdykefingeror a more relevant way to put it.
Just because you play dress up and pretend to do sword play doesn’t make you any more or less correct about actual combat centuries ago than anyone else.
It’s a mere imitation that you believe to be the more correct or only right form of the real thing? Yeah that’s just being obtuse and arrogant.
@@cjtheprop-makerAgreed.
I'm going to have to default to the Mr. T stance, and thus 'pity the foo'.
To quote Steve Hofstetter: "I've never flown a helicopter, yet if I saw one in a tree I'd still be like, 'Dude [messed] up.'"
Pretty much nobody is a “real swordsman” anymore. Unless you’re actually fighting people, for real, with a sword then you don’t have much of leg to stand on.
If you're REALLY good... neither will your opponent. I'll see myself out now. Lol
It's like how Competition MMA experts will always choose to run because they haven't trained to kill someone. Likewise we'll criticize TMA for claiming they could do the same without testing. In actuality the only ones with the skill would be put to death in modern society.
There's all sorts of theory like "cut this way to deal with fiber based armors" and etc. but even with practices like tameshigiri the stand-in for a person isn't resisting and the chops delivered have awful follow-through that would realistically get you killed by a novice if you missed once.
Even with resisting opponents and fencing there's clear differences between competition and orthodox for all forms of fencing in all forms of swordsmanship regardless of country. People who are overwhelmingly focused on competition can hardly even be trusted as experts even if their practical skills are high their habits have warped. They may still be able to "say" well but they'll no longer be practicing what they preach.
Really we need something like M-1 but with a bunch of different formats then perhaps there can be some degree of testing. But like MMA there will still be limits to what can be legally tested.
Not real until someone has a dagger in their throat. Until then its reenacting. And reenacting is amazing, I do it for Revolutionary War, but I understand that unless something goes wrong and the cannon, I am next to explodes. I am not at real risk of actual muskets firing live ammunition. Unless someone forget their ramrod again. It went through three inches of granite. :D
@@xX-fd2qj i will reference you to hand to hand combat with trench tools and bayonets of ww1 for what edged weapons do to humans. perhaps the butchery of manchette warfare in Africa?
There has been a incidents of murders done with swords in recent years. You can look it up. Scary but true. Of course, it's always one sided, because no murderer is honorable
Imagine telling your history professor they can't teach history because they didn't live though it.
yup, just told my therapist that how he dares analyze my problems if he isn't going through them
That is such stupid reasoning, the difference is you’re actively recreating scenarios, it’s like explaining what boxing is but you’ve only read books, sellswords point isn’t that you can’t talk about fencing, it’s that you can’t explain what fencing would have been like 700 years ago if you’ve never touched a sword, who do you think is better at driving, the guy who read the manual or the guy who has actually driven a car
@@limelight6970 Who you do think better understands language, an actual writer and author or a guy who fences? By your logic since sellsword isn't a writer or author like Shad then he has no right using words to explain how to use a sword over someone who is.
See how that works? The fact is everyone is qualified to speak on every topic. A persons speech is judged by its content, not by their right to speak isn't based on their qualifications. If the most lowly and uneducated person speaks the truth they are worth listening to over even the most highly experienced or educated person who is speaking lies.
@@ArcadiaCvHoly mother of false equivalences.
@@AgentUltimate7 Not sure what's worse, the fact you think that would be a false equivalency (who do you think is better x or y, literal same argument worded exactly the same), or that you somehow missed the point, which was how bad of an argument that would be.
Siskel and Ebert were some of the most trusted and prolific movie reviewers for 20 years. They never made a movie, so should their opinions on the art not be taken in?
They gave an American Tail a bad review. Nope can't trust them
Roger Ebert has 9 writers credits, 3 actor credits, and 2 producer credits for films.
I have never encountered their work, so I cannot speak to its quality; however, if we assume they had zero comprehension of what made a good movie from a theoretical standpoint and purely evaluated film through a lens of their own subjective emotions, then yes, their opinions should be disregarded. Trust and proliferation do not mean anything if they are objectively incorrect. If the opposite is true, then their opinions are far more valuable than any movie makers, as making a film does not grant the creator omniscience over the subject matter.
@@FairPlayGaming LOL, subjective movie reviews are gay.
I forget the names but they trash talked some movies that the viewers really love. Your argument is right here but their views are subjective.
It's honestly interesting to see the sword community has similar problems to the American firearms community. There are many military/law enforcement individuals that believe "civilians" shouldn't have any input or practice certain things due to the appeal to authority fallacy. There's also the issue of people hating on channels for just doing fun experiments or trying interesting stuff out. Thankfully, that mindset is the minority at this point, and these people are properly shamed as being goobers. Love the content and positive mindsets gents. Keep it up.
That would be fair except that's not at all what was stated in the original video. Shad is for some weird reason misrepresenting the original video a lot here.
Timestamps of the specific statement/argument by Sellsword that Shad misrepresents, clarify the context, and explain as to how it's misrepresented. Because just saying Shad is misrepresenting, isn't really anything.
@@8ligh7Lol no I'm not gonna run around and do your research for you. Watch the original video, watch Shad's response, watch the response to the response. I'm at work. My opinion is my opinion, do what you want with it. Shad is misrepresenting the video. Watch and think critically.
@@8ligh7 lol if you just were to watch the original it would be make clear... If not your as dense as he is or are intentionally misinterpreting the easily understood message.
@@samc9133 yeah I'm not sure how he misinterpreted disclaimers at the beginning and end of the videos he clipped out of context.... On top of that he really did some scouring, and went back to videos from over a year ago where sellsword tried cutting mats for the first time... Where he also makes a disclaimer that it is in no way a show of skill in the martial art as a whole, but it is a way to practice edge alignment specifically. Not sure how everyone here is mostly siding with shads slimy tactics here but whatever. I like watching both of them and probably will continue to do so.
The obvious and already stated aside, the main problem I had and have with a lot of David's content and points. Was that he always approached every situation from a singular POV, a fencer's POV. Fencing, in its own respect is a very skillful and beautiful art, but it is not the only art, or only style to exist. There are many different forms with vastly different uses, and simply looking at everything from that singular POV is without a doubt disingenuous. It is like a military marksman saying that a shotgun should not exist because it cannot do what a sniper rifle can. Two vastly different guns for vastly different occasions, completely incomparable.
Fencing has always been so weird to me, when I've seen it, it's always about who is the fastest, and they do like kamikaze attacks, lunging into each others blades. As long as my sword hits you first, it doesn't matter if I die as well, because I win. (Might just be me and the few fencing things I've seen though)
Fencing has always been so weird to me, when I've seen it, it's always about who is the fastest, and they do like kamikaze attacks, lunging into each others blades. As long as my sword hits you first, it doesn't matter if I die as well, because I win. (Might just be me and the few fencing things I've seen though)
@@EldritchCaptainhistorically fencing duels often ended with double kills so yeah, not too useful in combat.
@@EldritchCaptain This kind of reckless fighting style is common in olympic foil and saber fencing, where the right of way rule gives the attacker the win when double hits occur.
But watch an olympic epee match, where there is no right of way rule, and you'll see a very defensive metagame being predominant.
@@EldritchCaptain That's entirely because fencing, much like a large portion of Kendo, is something that was recreated into a safer sport rather than something combat focused. Often with large steps made to be able to say that it isn't just "swordfighting" because swords were specifically restricted or fully illegal.
In the US, there’s a community of people who engage in historical re-enactments of Civil War battles. While there’s definitely something to be learned from that, none of those people are under the illusion that what they are doing is anything other than a reenactment. Some of these HEMA folks have this attitude that their practice sparring gives them some great insight on what it was like to be in a medieval battlefield. Sorry, no. They’re “armchair warriors”, too.
I do Revolutionary War reenactments, and while yes if the gunpowder goes off in my cartridge belt I will have a bad day, or the cannon explodes, or someone forgets their ramrod you can get hurt or die. No, we are not under any illusion we are anything other than reenactors who are playing parts to educate the populace. Though I will say when the weather is bad its amazing how your senses change. Consciously you know it's not real, unconsciously your body only half realizes.
I have noticed that about HEMA.
To me. armchair means too much academic knowledge, not enough experience, logic, wisdom.
It's sill better than a random person that knows the basics of a given subject.
Can't speak for all the civil war reenactors but the ones where I grew up would have to live out in the field the whole time the reenactment was going on, it gave it a more authentic feel.
HEMA on the other hand seems like it's a more scripted event.
Every HEMA practitioner I've met thinks they are God's gift to the "sport"
@@dylanmulvaney9912They are still not trying to kill each other, nor are they fighting in formation following the command of a leader. They have no more legitimate "real world" experience than, say, an Iaido or Kyudo practicioner, though they will, quite unlike the aforementioned, insist otherwise.
Another great example is action gun matches, a combination of athletic and shooting ability that's meant to simulate a real combat scenario by putting the shooter under pressure. If you've ever seen the video of Keanu Reeves training for John Wick, that's basically what AGM is. Despite the stated goal of these events, no serious competitor or organizer for any of these will ever pretend that it is truly comparable to real combat scenarios nor will they condescend other forms of shooting competition/practice
Tl;Dr HEMA types are insufferable
@@Evarakeus It's generally frowned upon to have shooting competitions where the contestants get shot at.
What annoys me the most with Sellsword is that often when you research something you go to multiple places for info, but he seems to want you to not do this.
Yeah, reverse grip was one of those things. Do some digging, it's good for quick situations rather then a style. 95% of the time it's not what you want.
Then there's knives. Which is a different subject.
A LOT of that around recently. Those same people will almost ALWAYS rant about how they “Hate MiSiNForMaTioN.”
They’ll usually spread some right after saying that too 😂
@@leichtmeister guh?
Finally got back to finishing this after seeing he made a response video.
You guys have made solid points and have been very cordial and polite in your corrections.
Now to go watch his reply and see if he reciprocates the same tone and emotions.
I'd agree but I really feel like sellsswords is deleting comments I can find quite a few disagreeing on both sides here and literally can't find a single one on shads side on sell sword
@@kingming9712 he addressed deleting hateful comments on his previous videos and showed some examples, but after seeing that sarcastic reply to one of his viewers shown in Shad's video, I wouldn't put him above deleting comments that are in favor of Shad and his team.
All in all, David was polite in his response, but I've had the feeling he has a bit of an unchecked ego for a while now.
@@feroxdeus1998 He misrepresented many things, but at least he invited for dialogue which is good
btw, I followed the whole thing and yes, for a time he deleted any opposition. Then the pinned comment got made and he got a bit more relax and started to instead insult the comments and deleting those he couldn't "gotcha"
Look sat his comments to those who simply tried to be neutral or even complimented him but mentioned he wasn't clear in the first one. Jumped right down their throats. The video was the act, the truth was revealed by his responses.
Honestly impressed with this response. Shad didn't just point out the flaws of Sellswords own double-sword test, but also proceeded to make a BETTER one for himself, and test the thing yet again (much to Nathan's dismay, apparently).
The one response I saw about the handle length on Sellsword's end was (honestly very weak) "we'd have to raise funds to have one made." This made me think of another advantage to foam/synthetic weapons that I don't think came up, but it is cost. What I mean is, you can build a kind of prototype for very cheap to at least do some basic "proof of concept" testing. Stuff like reach and maneuverability. Sure it's not 1-to-1, but at least you'd be able to figure out if it is completely unviable as a weapon before putting in the money and effort of building a steel one (I'm pretty sure Shad has done this approach on some of their more ridiculous builds).
Hence the shelving piece duct taped to two swords. Total cost would be significantly less than paying to make a full one.
@@alexdupaixexactly, test the fundamentals and make sure the theory does work before you build some big expensive piece of equipment just for the theory to be completely pointless anyway.
@@draketurtle4169 yup. Exactly like what they're doing with the Titan sword project. They made it very clear the foam versions were to test proof of concept
Need to use stick power more 😉👍🏻
So they say they would have to raise funds for some ductape and a piece of metal profile ... curious.
Does anybody else love it when people try to call Shad out? Its always a treat. He reminds me of one of my college english Professors. Her name was Prof. Frances Auld. The very first day of class she waited outside the room until everyone took their seats then jumped through the door wearing Hulk fists and told us we would be reading about Cú Chulainn, the original Hulk. Just like her, Shad is an endless bundle of knowledge and enthusiasm that nothing can knock of kilter and if you challenge his work or maturity he will give you a step by step breakdown of why he does what he does, the logical fallacies YOU are making, own up to any of his own mistakes that you point out and make corrections to his work, and show you that you can in fact be both geeky AND functional adult at the same time.
It's a love hate relationship. I hate when people call Shad out with either malicious or stupid intentions, but I love Shad's responses. Genuine call-outs are just a win-win b/c Shad learns from the mistake and the other person (usually) isn't a massive d-bag.
Thoroughly deconstructing and disproving and debunking all in one take. And doing it with such a courtesy and due respect. That's why I love your content guys! I have learned a lot from you all in shadiversity. And I do love your castle videos as well! Very fascinating! Keep doing what you're doing!
Yes more castle videos! ✨✨
This reminds me of the vet bro community. They claim you're larping by training with kit because you weren't an operator. As said by a certain purple heart recipient, and the king of bro vets whose name rhymes with Kim Tennedy.
Im not too familiar with that. You mind telling me about it?
@highc7812 short version - Dakota Meyer, a purple heart recipient, posted a rather unhinged video about people who were not in the military that train with kit (plate carrier/tactical vest, some might call it). It's similar to Sellsword Arts' take on swordsmanship. That you can't talk about it unless you practice based on his standards. Dakota Meyer essentially said you can't embrace 2nd Amendment rights if you weren't in the military. That's as deep as I want to go without sounding unhinged myself lol
@@philonda lmfao I need to look into this. Thanks for the info
@@philonda
Oh fuck Isn’t Dakota that bitch that hid in a 50cal while his boys were being shot up. Because I’m pretty sure all my Corps Buddies hate the shit out of him for all the drama that went down about him
The fact that Sellsword cast the criticism without addressing who he is criticizing is not just passive aggressive, but also cowardly imo; he's effectively trying to rile up his community to do it for him...
He *specifically* clarified well before this video was uploaded that it was not about shad.
@@HonorableAssassinsSo in a separate video he said who this video was addressing, while refusing to say who he was addressing in the video where he is addressing it? That is beyond retarded.
@HonorableAssassins where did he say it because I can't find him saying anything
I think it's far more damming to take a 9 minutes video that talks about the elements that go into good, informative work and take that as a personal attack that warrants an hour+ long video where you speak for others without been asked to.
@@HonorableAssassinswhere did he post that? I couldn't find it
47:20 You can just see Nate going from trying to be civil to getting frustrated now that they are just being insulted. Good job on staying calm with this, guys.
This guy, this sellswordarts insulted me in a comment for not having anything in life and being noone because I had no followers because I criticized him because of the Advertisement of a enegydrink that had a few meetings with a judge because of its ingrediends.
This guy is narcistic, he has a big mouth and a much bigger ego.
I am happy that you guys dont let him in your league
@@hugovonpayns9291 Even though I obviously can't see that comment you're talking about given his general demeanor I wouldn't be surprised,
@@TheNuisanceBird He hided that comment, no joke
@@TheNuisanceBird it was a comment under his advertisement of Gfuel an energydrink that faced lawsuits for being cancerous and unhealthy because of its artificial ingrediences. He as a contentcreator shouldnt advertise such crap unless its money and not honest passion that drives him
@@hugovonpayns9291 Simply stated that his new video was much better getting the message he wanted across. Jumped down my throat, blamed all Shad fans for making that up, and revealed his ego. Skallagrim and Easton jumped on to take his side. Shows me what this is about for sure.
As a student of History who has some limited HEMA experience (enough to be familiar with the treatises and culture towards them in that community, though I reckon that may vary in different countries) I'd say that the treatises, as in all matters historical, are a filter of all that once existed. A very good filter, as they were written by accomplished masters in an age when death in a duel was very common occurrence, but a filter nonetheless.
We have very little European fencing surviving from before 1300 (general rule! I know there is some) and many areas of Europe are still _terra incognita_ where swordsmanship was just as everyday thing as in Germany and Italy, where most of the surviving stuff is from. There is next to nothing from antiquity (and consider, gentle reader, how prolific that literature must have been in a literate culture where commercial fighting in an arena was as big a thing as it was) and who knows what treasures language barrier withholds in the Arabic world - just to name a few things.
On the subject of real art being within HEMA art and sanctioned only if found in treatises.. well, that's a laughable position. The truth of swordsmanship remains that whatever get the enemy killed, goes. Preferably you not getting killed as well in the process, and I'm pretty sure at least meister Liechtenauer said this as well almost verbatim somewhere, so there's that.
"So, you are the greatest warrior alive? Where are the battle scars that prove this claim?"
"On the bodies of my enemies. Those that survived the encounter, of course."
"whatever get the enemy killed, goes. Preferably you not getting killed as well in the process" I mean, I _think_ you were intentionally underplaying this but it can't be emphasised enough how killing your enemy doesn't mean jack shit if you perish alongside them. In boxing and other contact sports you can trade blows and such, but not so much in a sport where potential death lays behind any blow.
As a History student with substantial HEMA experience, I must caution you. Like you, I watched Shadiversity before embarking on my own practice years ago and developed similar ideas. It became evident that those asserting an action's validity solely if found in historical sources are a mocked minority in the HEMA community. Many practitioners prioritize efficiency and winning, believing that mastering the sword through modern sport methods enhances manuscript understanding. Regarding Shad, form your own opinion, but exercise caution as he could be seen as very misleading.
We should also remind ourselves that the fencing treatises only contain what the masters wrote down. There are surely many lessons and technics that they didn't write down because they either didn't have enough space or just wanted people to pay them to teach.
I totally agree with you Shad. A lively debate consisting of contrasting opinion, disagreements and arguments is essential to further understanding and appreciation of all things, especially historical and the art of swordsmanship in this case. The ones calling for folks to not watch or listen to other opinions give away their perception of themselves as being weak on the subject. A person coming from a position of genuine knowledge or expertise should welcome the opportunity for their thoughts to be tested. It shows great character and competence to “steel man” an opponents argument before attempting to dismantle it.
Speaking as someone who’s done fencing…Yeah I’d trust Shad a hell of a lot more than a fencer when it comes to swordsmanship. Fencing is more in line with dueling in that there are set rules and standards for what weapons are allowed, what moves, etc. If someone honestly believes that medieval warfare was honorable and had set rules, they’re a fool. It’s combat, not a sport.
I wanna add to your arguement, as a student in archeology (specialized in mesolithic prehistory) that "historical" combat is hard to understand mainly because we often do not understand the techniques used. A bunch of Neolithic sites from Alsace (France) show either battlefields or pits filled with corpses of ennemies show traces of surprise scirmishes and brutal use of maces and axes (with also executions post battle). Broken bones and cut stigmas found on corpses seem to show that every hit was permitted.
Experimental archeology, especially for the Mesolithic era, has tested long bow techniques using the materials found on preserved evidence found in Brittain or Scandinavia. The use of the bow has been tested, from its creation to its destruction, without any written sources from that era (because prehistoric groups didn't write as far as we know). While it cannot be historically proven (because it is impossible), it is still considered trustworthy because it is made through scientific methods of experimentation.
Sellsword's opinion is also invalidated by battlefiled recreations made for the Gallic wars. Ceasar wrote ALOT about his battles as a way to promote himself. However, historians, archeologists and amateurs have recreated battles and formations used both by the roman army and the Gauls. They have proven that the use of techniques wouldn't have been has effective on the battlefield as formation and gear. Not that technoques are not efficient, but if you fight two or three enemies at a time, you will mostly have to rely on your gear and military formations to win. To check this, you can find sources from the archeological museum of Alesia, or any other speciallised museums of France.
Thats a problem a lot of martial artists (both armed and not armed) fail to understand
Like in an actual fight for survival all your knowledge falls apart when someone cuts your arm clean off
An mma fighter will beat a random guy who is ''from the streets'' if they ever get into an altercation even if the mma fighter usually fights by the rules. He trains in an eviorment where the best possible technique is judged even if its set in certain limitations. So the fact that you value the word of a guy who does more larping and DnD then hema is idiotic. There are obviously sports that get closer to real life then others. Like boxing and mma. Or sport fencing and hema. Get a grip
@@dog640 will he beat said random guy if he had a knife?
If someone has a knife and has the intention to kill then you will get cut no matter how good of a fighter you are
@@dog640 that is also a fasle statement. My brother does free martial arts under trained mma pros. He did judo before that. The first thing you learn is that ANYBODY can beat ANYBODY. Yes, you might have the advantage of techniques and training. BUT, someone that has the intent and/or gear WILL have the upper hand. Heck, they are more dangerous BECAUSE they don't have the techniques, which makes them unpredictable. And again, this statement is historically false. Warfare is about gear, numbers, terrain, morale and Military formations. Read Sun-tzu about this. A battle field IS NOT an arena. Heck, even look at gladiators, trained warriors that could be compared with today's wrestlers (just with more blood and death). To check this, look at the many documentaries and read the documents produced by italian archeologists or the 200 years of archeological/historical studies of the roman era.
I have been part of a Hema community for years, and I think that you have great content. if I remember right it was your content that encouraged me to join a club. and the reason I joined was to try things with swords, as many different things as I could and in doing so I have found that swords men who don't ask questions don't succeed. you test all most all of your ideas, and even if not all of the things would work in a Hema tournament setting would even work in a real fight. I have seen the craziest things work, would they work a gain no but they did.
I also have a mentality that if it was not in a Manuel dose not mean that it did not exists in fact in some manuals it seems that some things where common knowledge and did not talk a bout them in the Manuel. i also think that depending on the style you are meant to test out your own way. (In all things learn to find cuts, thrust and slices- The Dresden Manuscript)
in my opinion if you where to give a master of old a two bladed sword they would say it is better then nothing.
I really like Shad's argumentative videos because like he says, he tries to use actual arguments and reasoning for the stuff.
i do too, he has this same bit of the autistic spectrum level conviction in his arguments i have :D
@@dutchdykefinger but he has receipts, and here too he is showing them :p
As long as he doesn’t start shouting… once he loses his temper I check out completely- usually happen when he goes on the defensive so I was glad to it see it here, cuz this other guy’s vids were really cocky.
There seem to be a lot of attempts to “cancel” Shad lately for some reason. I guess he’s just gotten too big and gotten on the wrong people’s radar🤷♂️
@@mkv2718 It's mostly cause of his Knight's Watch content. Shad has said himself there's a reason he separates the kind of content on the 2 channels. Yes it's to not dilute the algorithm but also that for the most part he keeps many of his political opinions to Knight's Watch. Many people looking don't separate it at all
Just come across this video of yours and have to say I always thought double bladed swords would’ve been treated more like a bo staff maybe? Have to admit your usage point makes sense though. Love the content, keep it up guys.
Also have to say as you did that there’s more schools of sword craft than just fencing so hope he’s broadened his horizons
Your channel is one of the main reasons I finally bought a bow, after thinking about it for most of my life but never actually taking the steps.
Now I have three bows and I frequently practice shooting or modify my bows with your channel going in the background, with every intent to get better.
One of the things I like most is the way you test unorthodox things.
Also Nate is a sweetheart so the eye candy doesn't hurt.
There's one aspect where Sellsword is definitely right. Across History there have always been swordsmen who were arrogant cocky know-it-alls, who thought they were invincible. Until they got run through by someone else! 🤣He perfectly represents this attitude. He's like an 80's villain from a medievalesque movie! Love it!😂
Run through by a spear most likely 😂
this is true, but that number should thin out when their hubris gets them killed
kind of how most real fighters probably already gave themselves in a war and we end up with a higher concentration of pussies
Dude has such a thin sword a heavier one would instantly break it lol. Its just "fancy" and "tasteful" to have a thin sword in the 17th century cause its just lighter. Anyone with a 2 hander would win cause its closer to a spear
No one in the HEMA community gets to call someone else on the HEMA community an armchair warrior unless they have a duel to the death with swords under their belt, otherwise by that standard no one knows anything
Does shad do hema? Thought he physically couldnt...
On that note, bring back dueling.
@@mcsatans5120 there are places in the usa where mutual combat is legal, its how streetbeefs operates or started out iirc. However, im not sure if its strictly regulated to unarmed combat.
@@LadyNari773yeah. The point of SA's video was to point that.
@@LadyNari773lol yes he is, anyone that does HEMA is part of it
"Is it David, Daniel? Whatever the guy is called, he is passive aggressive."
That is quality irony.
Since when does a film critic have to be able to make movies, an art expert have to be able to paint, or a music critic has to be able to play a musical instrument?
Haven't you heard? you can't even talk about the damage guns do unless you have shot someone!
But there is an argument to be made that a tuba player can best tell someone how to play a tuba, someone who goes and plays golf will be better at the sport of golf better than someone who only watches and studies it. Experience is genuinely important to knowledge.
@@jagw4832 analysis is not the same as teaching
@@jagw4832 I kind of disagree. I am pretty good at what I do professionally, Not the best teacher though. Teaching and doing are two different things. Sure experience is pretty important but saying someone who practices just one aspect of some art is the only valid source of learning on the art and dismissing the experience of others is kinda uncool.
@@wolfcrecent5286 That's absolutely fair. I get that anyone could talk about anything, but I do think when teaching or even just putting information out, it is important to have real experience with the subject. I don't think it applies to this internet beef, but the point is still valid.
I was a commando in the army, and I started training with airsoft teams who were just kids mostly in their 20s having fun and I found myself learning a lot. The professional military community had a horrific reaction to airsoft under the same construct that this isn’t real enough these people aren’t qualified. to this day, I stand by the best training anyone can possibly have and close combat is extremely realistic airsoft. just make it $1000 if you get hit. winner takes all and you will be shocked how intensely real it feels if you are above 400fps. Peoples egos get very sensitive.
Check out Garand Thumb.
He participated in an all out war game with airsoft.
Out in the field for I believe a week, using NVG/Thermo, full kit and broken into platoons.
Was legit stuff.
"If you don't do the art you can't talk about the art"
Ok, so I guess all those Science Educator channels that aren't run by actual scientists can't try and educate people about the topic.
Utterly baffling take.
Like the History Channel?
@@barjekold7140 I mean does the current History Channel even do proper documentaries anymore?
@@hawkticus_history_corner no they don't but they used to and this Films were laced with missinformation. Due too bad Research.
@@barjekold7140 Ya, they had a lot of issues. When they made a good one though it was pretty good
Not what he said. He said you’re not going to get actual knowledge or learn how the weapons were used unless you study under or listen to people who do use them.
Who’s going to know how a rifle is used in combat. The guy who shoots in his backyard or the guy coming back from 8 tours?
Who’s going to understand jiu jutsu better - the guy who watches MMA and occasionally has fun in the house or the actual fighter who practices the art?
LISTEN to what people are saying when they speak.
What a masterful response to a empty attempt at calling out a group of content makers. Absolutely demolished every point to the ground and didn’t make it a “lol go fuck yourself” or a “Get wrekt kiddo.”
Not that this was the point but something that I kept thinking of, mostly because I reread the book recently, was from Sun Tzu.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.
Clear as day in this whole response.
Talking about swordsmanship through a fantasy lense is like talking about science through a scifi lense. It's about A) bringing the topic to an audience who specifically aren't a practitioner and B) having fun.
Its perfectly valid
Especially because you aren't saying "yea people did this" you are saying "this is cool, this might work in this setting."
To add to this, one of the greatest things talking about something in a fantasy sense does is bring the right people into the right field. A lot, and I mean A LOT, of scientists became scientists because of stuff like Star-Trek, Monster Movies, Comic Books, etc. Scientists are nerds at heart and more often than not the current, and past few, generations of scientists who have made some significant advancements in their fields started because someone showed them something that was fun and entertaining. Obviously sword-fighting isn't really going to become the new standard of self defense and new world changing things aren't going to come out of someone going "I wanna swing a sword good cause anime-man did it!" but it's a great way to get people into a fitness hobby that is friggen awesome. And hey, maybe decades or centuries in the future we'll have space flight and light-swords and cybernetic enhancements and it'll all come full circle.
When i was in art college, one of the things on offer was, if i recall correctly, was basically a Art Critic degree. It wasn't in my interest so i didn't bother. I will tell you that i had an art criticism class as part of my mandatory curriculum. Before we spent any time creating, we learned the fundamentals of art. all in all we must've spent a solid third of that class doing nothing but learning that stuff without the practicing of the art. So honestly, this idea of needing to practice to be legit rings very hollow to me, because, at least in my field, they train people specifically to do this sort of thing. and i very seriously doubt that most game reviewers even know how to code, much less know how to make a game. understanding how to tear into something, and understanding the flaws of a thing is far and away not the same thing and knowing how to do a thing. there's a old adage that goes like this: "it is easier to destroy than create". Knowing how to do a craft can sometimes provide insight into a thing, and perhaps better criticism, I often find that the better critic of my work is actually some who DOES NOT know the craft. Because even the most ignorant of us can tell when something sucks, even if they don't know why.
It's a silly idea, in my opinion, all and all.
That is VERY different to martial arts dude. Knowing what’s fun or interpreting what’s beautiful isn’t the same as learning how to fight. Not even remotely close.
Unless you actually fight, you don’t know how to fight. There’s no amount of theory or text study that can be done that will make you outperform anyone. You have to actually DO IT.
Same way learning to drive a car or flying a plane. You need to actually do it to know it.
But how does that work with swordsmanship? Nobody uses swordsman to actually kill anymore. So the people who larp and fence ARE the perfessionals. What sellsword says doesn't work because HEMA is just one facet of medieval combat.
@@lustrazor44 In saying this you have entirely misunderstood my craft. There is a great deal of technical skill in artistry, and contrary to popular belief there is a fundamental set of rules that when followed typically produce better art. I brought up the lay person at the end on purpose because i know the laymen doesn't not know much or any of the technical skill.there are people in my field who say exactly what you are saying about artistry.
But even if we assume that you are correct, and that art and martial prowess have nothing in common and can not be equated; why, when you are learning to drive, the first thing they do is hand you a book and tell you to study it? why wouldn't they just put you in a 2 ton speed death machine? I don't drive, but i sure as hell can tell you when someone is driving poorly. I can also give you a historical break down of cars, and why the invention of particular components was important, and so on. practical application does give you insight, yes. but not having the practical application should not bar you from the conversation.
Gatekeeping of this sort exists in every community. as another commenter said, unless you make movies, you can't talk movies, if you don't cook professionally you can't talk food, if you don't publish books you can't write, and so on. This is much of the same vain.
@@manyharmons4308 Could you do me a solid and tell me what HEMA even is? My dad was a larper so I know a bit of that, but until i watched this video I'd never heard of HEMA.
@@tr0n4556 Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) refers to both the academic research and physical training associated with the combat arts of medieval Europe.
Some people cannot access proper HEMA classes, let alone pay for them at times. As a sword and gun fan living in a country where I can't get proper ones nor allowed to carry, the best I can do is watch Shad and Skallagrim.
If you're looking for good gun channels I recommend Garand Thumb, Demolition Ranch, Kentucky Ballistics, Brandon Herrera, Hickock45, Forgotten Weapons, and Paul Harrell.
If you are looking to practice HEMA and become good at swordfighting there are much better options then Shad or Skallagrim.
@@jamesconlon8429 There is too much arrogance in many practitioners, that gets annoying to watch, and that's coming from someone who fences, not well, but i'd rather my foil break and it go through my brain than watch someone dryer than the Sahara and twice as smug talk HEMA. i like Schola Gladiatoria and Blood and Iron (A HEMA Club), but many are just so, boring. Also Federico Malagutti is great, and entertaining.
SHAD never told me he was an expert on anything, just an enthusiast and I really appreciate that. You are an innovator of new techniques & weapons, thats actually useful and interesting to me.
Lmao
This reminds me a lot of the music community, and so many classical trained musicians look down on self taught musicians and playing with incorrect techniques, and unusual chord creations and progressions. But we would lose so much great music if we didn't have self taught musicians.
It is exactly like that, and motivated by the same thoughts and feelings. Classical musicians (and hardcore HEMA nerds) have invested an unbelievable amount of time and energy into their studies. They have done so because they believe that the thing they are studying has VALUE. When someone who hasn’t done the same studying is occupying the same space as them, it is an implicit attack on all that time and effort they have invested.
I hope that makes sense…
It's more to do with actually practically implementing what you claim I might imagine, among other things.
I know plenty of people who don't spar, don't compete, and don't train in a practical manner, who then claim authority on fighting methods. Most of the time this results in an incomplete picture of the problem and the solution, to put it politely, because they don't have the necessary experience, practical or otherwise, to actually
You can't claim to authority if you've never put your theories or practice to an actual test.
While this doesn't bother me personally as I have no investment either way, I do sort of understand where it's coming from.
I've practiced unarmed martial arts, including both "traditional" and modern, for over a decade, and I get very irritated when I see people spreading information that is clearly not based in practical experience of the subject. An untested theory is just that, it cannot be claimed to be anything else unless you put it into practice and demonstrate your first hand knowledge.
Shad is absolutely not a self defence "expert" spreading bunk, but he does talk about a subject he doesn't actually practice in regards to HEMA. Which is fine, I'm more of a theorist myself at the moment regarding martial arts due to my location, but it's fully understandable why someone who spends a significant amount of time practicing and teaching this subject might get annoyed if he makes any claims to authority over it.
In a much shorter metaphor. It's like a self-taught musician never playing in front of someone or demonstrating that they can actually play but then informing other people on the subject.
Can you see why some musician's might end up irritated by that? If you spend a significant amount of time on actually practicing something, and then someone else who does not do this comes along and makes claims towards this, you might build some irritation or resentment as a result.
@@Newnodrogbob And they're both similar because they are about exploring European cultural traditions 😊
Hopefully we can keep these skills we humans have been building up for so long like drawing or playing a musical instrument and it all doesn't get replaced by A.I. I really would want for my children to learn and create music and art and I really don't want human art and creativity to die within my generation 😩
I'm getting flashbacks to "it's physically impossible to shoot a bow with an arrow on the right side also you'll die if you try it".
Same energy.
Basically, but this time Shad has more experience 100%.
When people try to act high and mighty on swordsmanship in modern times, I laugh. I just imagine what some highly trained grizzled war veteran from the medieval era would think if he saw some of these people acting like they have some deep understanding of ACTUALLY using these weapons. Its ridiculous lol.
and remember those people liked beowulf and king arthur with his magic blade of rainbow death
so maybe chill in general
@@marley7868 I'm sorry I don't follow
@@Reinfarcements actual medieval warriors liked stories that are impractical like beowulf wrestling grendal to death so do whatever you know just don't lie about your goals
@@marley7868 I'm not sure how the stories medieval warriors may or may not have enjoyed is relevant to what I'm trying to say. My example is using a man who has been in actual life and death combat with medieval weapons several times. A man such as that would laugh at a modern man that claims they are some expert on swordsmanship. Whether he liked the story of Beowulf or not doesn't take away that fact.
@@Reinfarcements yeah I was agreeing with you and showing that they tended to like silly stuff to further demonstrate the guy this vid is responding to's faulty mindset
TL;DR
So, umm, I watched the video in question in full. And I think this was a big misunderstanding.
Begin wall of text:
For context: I’ve been watching Shad for years and I’ve always liked his content. I only found Sellsword very recently and I also really like his content. I actually saw the targeted video *in full* before Shad’s response came out, so when I watched Shad’s response, I was extremely confused. I didn’t get that hostile impression from Sellsword that Shad got AT all. I saw that Sellsword made his own response and what not talking about the literal hate comments he was deleting (showed them in his video. They were NOT constructive comments). This is obviously not Shad’s fault just people being dicks, but I wanted to point this out because the top comment on THIS video is saying how his comment got “shadow banned” when no one even asked what it said.
Also, I have one genuine criticism for your response Shad. Your thumbnail and title. It’s extremely clickbaity and misleading. Sellsword (rightfully) parodies it in his response video. Everything else was a misunderstanding, but that was a goof on your end.
I really appreciate how civil you guys are in your response videos.
@Shad you're the guy that got my whole family into swords in general, messers in particular, and eventually HEMA.
My wife also got into HEMA: initially for fitness, then as my training partner for drills, and now for enjoyment.
We check off all Sellsword's boxes, and we would never have even heard of HEMA if I hadn't been for your armchair content.
(and by armchair content I mean the old videos where you are literally sitting and talking, e.g., your 5-part series on the katana or your videos on the Elmslie typology. )
A hate this kind of elitism and attack on ones character. I'm 100% certain I wouldn't get along with Shad if we met in person, but I always loved Shadiversity and will continue to proudly contribute on patreon for the varied and thoughtful content.
To be honest i watched David’s video first and “wait why would Shad react to that”. But after watching this video Shad has a point. He just want to make videos that he likes and never claimed to be an expert ever. Its not his fault that people find his content very entertaining. I love watching the Shadsiversity crew having fun. Hope this issue will be settled soon in a livestream
Exactly, we're all nerds having fun. Alas, we have been criticized forever just for having fun.
@@leichtmeister Yes, he does.
@@leichtmeister No, I think you did.
Running down the competition is a desperate shady lawyer / car salesmen tactic. This Sellsword Arts person seems insecure. He should try to be a better youtuber instead of starting drama and complaining about his competition. I have almost zero sword training and watch this channel for entertainment. For a layman like me bragging that you are a "real swordsman" is like saying you are a "real wizard." Let's just enjoy our anachronistic interests and hobbies.
Have to say, I don't understand the thought process of Sellsword Arts with his criticism. People are doing their own things from their own angle and that is all fine. For myself, Shad's videos were the first ones to inform me of the existence of HEMA and led me to start practicing it about a year ago. For my part, thanks Shad and keep doing what you're doing and introducing more people to the world of swords and medieval stuff!
Not going to lie this makes me want to contact my local blacksmith for a double bladed sword for no other reason than to a) get good for the meme b) post results after using it in harness fighting for a couple months
Dontcut yourself!
@@sworduser5086 don’t think I could, it’ll be made like a hema longsword just a bit more rigid. Plus I’ll be wearing armour for the most part so I’ll be good lol
Loudmouth, pretty boy, a Yank, a gatekeeper...What a surprise! Challenge him to a duel! You got this Shad
Shad would get destroyed
Yeah sorry to say, Shad would lose. But also shad has problems and struggles to stand and walk.
lol, goodluck with that :)
Imagine if you all worked together. Imagine the amount of people who can discover this hobby and fall in love with it.
Sellsword Arts really bashed the rest of the community for talking about swords in pop culture as if he hadn't made 60 identical videos ranting about how "Lighsaber lore is broken".
And got the lore completely wrong in doing so
I feel like he enjoys ruining the fun for others. It's like a buzz kill and makes you not want to even try to duel/train with a lightsaber
Man it's almost like he repeatedly said in the video is that he enjoys that kind of content and you can still watch it, as long as you differentiate fantasy from reality
Starwars sucks 😔, but like sellswordarts says, watch it, enjoy it and content centered on it, just like he does. It's just fantasy, is not true swordsmanship
He only did one video about lightsaber lore, he just broke it down into shorts
I get the sense his successes in HEMA competitions which he's been doing a lot more of this past year got to his head. He sees other sword content creators who don't necessarily compete and he thinks he's more valid because he's proven himself in such a setting.
Good of him. He won against a bunch of guys playing with toys. That doesn't make him an expert or knowledgeable. Also, I would never support a person who acts that way out of jealousy. He doesn't even understand that not everything related to medieval battles works like a tournament of HEMA. Not every person wants content based only on that specific context. Many of us want to understand the logic behind fighting with weapons in many hypothetical situations (for storytelling, like Brandom Sanderson does). That is the fun part of weapons. Not the "sport" itself.
@@--Sama- That's what I'm saying. Don't get me wrong, it's great that he's been competing and whatnot, but now it seems like he's developed this idea that he's a real swordsman because he's out there fighting other swordsmen. People who don't do that somehow aren't real swordsmen.
@@--Sama- Based Srandon Banderson, as I call him.
This honestly feels like a Dakota Meyer situation again where a guy accomplishes something great and let's it get to their head and proceeds to build their whole personality/life around this singular point
Classic dunning-kruger. Hes got some knowledge on one weapon so he thinks hes a master of them all.