Why does the Devil hate humanity? Well, it's not like we can ask him. Biblically speaking, the "son of man" is meant to screw him over royally in prophecy. Also, he fucked around and found out. Meanwhile humanity fucks around and get's told "you can be better if you try."
I agree. What most people don't understand is that the weaponry used, even the rifles, were insanely overpowered and resulted in people getting literally shredded to pieces. It was also the first war where tanks and heavy machine guns were used. I cannot even fathom the kind of carnage that people saw, and it's something that no one could forget.
Combined my family sent 11 out of 12 to that war, 4 came back, one dropped dead with influenza 2 weeks after being demobbed, 2 would die of young and in both cases everyone said "the war took em, took a decade but still the war took em", one, their lungs finally gave out (took a lung full of phosgene in spring 1918) and the other was more anxiety/stress leading to stomach issues. So Yeah, those trenches were so brutal they were still claiming lives 10-15 years after the fighting stopped. The one that survived a long time afterwards was in Germany when the war broke out working in a Circus and had to run across the border into the Netherlands. When he finally made it back to the UK They would not let him 'serve' as he was an entertainer and music hall artist (he'd been an understudy to Chaplin and Stan Laurel when they were on the stage in London with "Fred Karno's Army", the Monty Python of their day) so he effectively ended up concert hall party. If you made a movie of his adventures people would call Bulls#!t.
@@Gamebent1 the rifles didnt shred that hard. The frequent artillery barrages on an almost daily basis however... there is a reason facial reconstruction is a medical practice that started durng WW1. the need for it was just that great.
WW1 was not more or less brutal than all wars befor or after. The difference was the sheer number of people involved, the allmost complete stalmate for several years and the resulting extreme use of artillery. Also societies at the time lacked the methods to deal with the sheer order of magnitude. There is a learning curve to this as well.
Some us still remember the bygone days when the business side of Games Workshop served the whims of the Design Studio. Now, the Design Studio serves the whims of the business side of Games Workshop, to the greater blandification of all.
Excuse me, we are not slaves of Satan, thank you. It's really more of a coop. Edit: I do feel like you are spot on on as well, Games Workshop have left the real grim dark behind and it's now just "good humans versus the other guys" and that's somewhat dull. I don' think it's the main reason for TCs success, but I do feel like people are a little tired of being sold grim dark with the edges filed down. A good dose of Grimderp is now just what the doctor ordered.
When a company has been dominant as GW has been there's times when they are going to relax and take the foot of the pedal But gw real problem is their creative team isn't as bonkers as the creative team that pioneered wh40k and the difference is getting noticeable now
@@1krani I back many projects I 3d print almost everything. The prices for the STLs for what you get and what they are were high I expect them to be higher once it goes out to the open outside of KS as is the standard. Again the STLs were around the price I have seen for resin minis for around the same model count that also had STLs part of their projects. But anyway I have been playing the beta ever since it was open for people to apply, been playing it on and off for many months I enjoy it.
Between this and "The Forever Winter", a game where you don't even play as the warring factions, just scavengers trying to survive in the endless literal war worshipping nightmare that is the future, we're eating good for... horrific dystopian grimdark settings.
They both have their own identities, for sure, but they do share a lot of DNA. A grimdark, hopeless setting of constant war that can consign millions to their deaths for an inch of land that's retaken the very next day, with zealous devotion to a single religion that doesn't tolerate even the slightest deviation for risk of heresy. Those same heretics are humans that fell down a dark path and are now aligned with the forces of actual, literal Hell, demons and all. Really, the biggest deviation is focusing nearly exclusively on the historical influences of Imperial Guard regiments and taking aliens out of the equation. And even then, with characters like the paladins, we do basically have Space Marines, they're just actual Catholics and not Space Catholics. They're both absolutely sick aesthetics though, and even if it does end up doing better than Warhammer, I don't want one replacing the other. Let the two settings duke it out in their own eternal war, the spoils being the contents of our wallets.
So, give a lot of credit to Mike Franchina who has been for the last couple years been painting the most amazing and evocative artwork for it. His images and descriptions have been spreading around the internet for awhile.
It's the circle of life. Crazy inspired indy product launches. Hits a chord with the audience and gains a following. Product is successful and breaks into the mainstream. Successful indy project is sold to or bought out by big corporation. Product is watered down to appeal to a mass market, creating an opportunity for the next crazy inspired indy product to fill the void left behind.
@@Mark-sd4hv because of lessons learned, tactics evolved, and leaps in tech (e.g. tanks and aircraft in WW2 were wildly more effective than in WW1, both the tech itself and the ways of employing them). Also keep in mind not all of WW1 was trench warfare; WW1's Eastern Front wasn't.
@@Mark-sd4hv Improvements in artillery, armoured vehicles and fighter bombers made trench warfare untenable. It's no fun crouching in a trench whilst planes and artillery are pounding the hell out of it... one flamethrower tank could sterilise all the trenches and bunkers whilst crushing the barbed wire defences common in trench warfare.
I wouldn't say this game crashes Warhammer. From the rules and the setting, it seems the two can co-exist just fine. Heck, it's probably great that a lot of their models are interchangable.
@crash-testproductions9341 Looks promising to me. The question remains - how much the lore will be developed afterwards. The chief reason why most Warhammer-killers fail is because they fail to produce a universe so interesting to rival it.
@@crash-testproductions9341 Spanish Inquisition! Nobody expects it! But then again no one understands the real reason behind it. It wasn’t heretics and witches.
I really have a bone about calling Trench Crusade "alternate history WW1", there is nothing remotely similar in the lore to suggest that the nations that took part in WW1 are actually present, however changed. Trench Crusade has a "WW1 aesthetic" which is completely valid, just not as readily marketable. It's a minor nitpick, but I think it's an important distinction.
It all started with a group of Templars during the crusades who mistakenly or on purpose unlocked the gates of hell, and the world has been fighting ever since... New Antioch, the Sultanate, and all sorts of legions from Hell, etc. being a some of the factions.
@@XAncientRelicX That's rather my point. The crusades that take place nearly a thousand years before the start of WW1. And by the time that you get to when WW1 is meant to take place in the timeline, the Trench Crusade timeline has already diverged so radically that even countries like the UK, the USA, Russia and China no longer exist. You can't replace China with the Sultanate or the USA with New Antioch and have the same WW1 conflict.
40K lost me when they removed the armoury in 10th. My Chaos lords were my characters. I customised them, designed them, and outfitted them accordingly. In other words, they removed _me_ from the game when they got rid of the armoury. We're now at a stage where they want you to only buy what's in the box. No customisation, no flavour. Why did we get _two separate_ Chaos lord profiles this year? Why, because the kits are monopose, there is only one option, and they don't want you to make your own so that you can buy both models! And how quick we are to forget that they put them in two _separate_ battleforce boxes at launch.
They lost me when they started to tailor the game for tournament/competitive players. They did away with all the characterful random rules that were in earlier editions because the competitive guys couldnt reliably curb stomp their opponents every game.
The only thing that will kill Warhammer is itself, all things eventually die and WH is reaching a point of critical mass where it'll either implode and disappear or adapt and change. I look forward to either happening.
The most amazing thing about the Kickstarter result for Trench Crusade is that the game is in effect totally free. Miniatures agnostic and free rules and lore downloads so why pay to play? Simple, because the official minis are cool and the book will, I expect, give us more of what we want judging by the names of the creative team being linked to it. This and the recent Infinity N5 release prove that people will still buy the books even if rules are always free. I wouldn't be surprised if GW don't decide to take this route when 40K 11 edition comes around.
Yeah, as someone who recently jumped into Bolt Action, and playing IJA no less, I couldn't help but also notice some of the IJA heads were "questionable" to put it lightly. Luckily there were multiple different heads that looked better that I chose from and also the heads with the glasses I painted black to make them look like they have really cool sunglasses.
Be sweet if I could proxy my old first-born marines in this new game. Nice middlefinger to GW discontinuing whole armies to force you to buy entire new armies.
@@JMcMillen thats what I was thinking. The german looking hell forces are prime to use my starship trooper cadians with an easy head swap from some german wehrmact STLs I got. Boom, done. Instant army. Stick it to GW.
Its the background selling it. For rules, there are other systems out there, but Trench Crusade, the background just feels like someone decided Warhammer 40k was not grim or dark enough and got H.R. Geiger and Clive Barker in as consultants. As a long time player of Traveller, it is good to see the bell curve of 2d6 getting some love.
I feel you on the feel of it going to epic heroes and hanger ons fighting. Most competitive armies need them to be competitive. I miss making a commander nearly as good as any hero, but from my own army's world. Now it feels like railroading to a handful of armies.
The Marvel thing is spot on, everyone's asking "when's the next Primarch movie coming up?" and the idea in the past that Daemon Primarchs were not more powerful than their lesser, mortal brothers was laughable... but Angron and Magnus and Mortarion, even Nurgle, are all getting badly Worfed.
I'd say Morty got off okay. He literally won that fight, until Emps juiced up Rowboat and then went on an arson spree in Nurgle's front yard. Angron, though? Losing to the Lion after Johnson had about 10,000 years of rust to shake off? Yeah, no, Johnson should've at least lost a limb, if not the fight.
@@1krani Yeah, Space Marines gotta win, because Space Marines sell, and nobody wants to buy losers. I'm still waiting for a really good Chaos novel. Last one was Storm of Iron.
I think it also has something to do with the Capirotes the trench pilgrims wear. From Silent Hill to Blasphemous, we love those tall, pointy helmets. 😊
I'm all open for more interesting competion to warhammer and especially 40k, but Trench Crusade ever coming close to becoming similar popular than 40k, Age of Sigmar and Warhammer in general is a stretch.
Hell hates you because Satan hates humans because he feels God favors them over the Angels from which he fell. Hell is the absence of Good. Heaven is love so Hell is filled with hate. Heaven is peace so Hell is torment
Yes, 40k doesn't need named characters on the table, let alone primarchs. Someone like Calgar or Abaddon should be near mythical figures to our guys on the table. They should NOT be appearing in every little skirmish that their force fights.
This will "crush" Warhammer in the same way Kings of War "crushed" Warhammer over a decade ago but on a far lesser scale as its not even competing for shelf space. i.e. It won't.
I will argue that Warhammer - the tabletop and the books - has never reflected the vibes from illustrations that actually brought people into it. The grimdark was never there. Even when you look at older editions, it was always focused on the silly guys in power armour, rather than on suffering wretches in robes. So, obviously, when something else promised the same vibes - and decided to actually deliver on this promise - it was doomed to be successful.
Holy crap. As a WW1 nut and Dieselpunk.... I must admit, I have seen some stuff recommended to me, but I didn't realize how much I would love this. But, MAN, do I not have budget or space to get into something at this scale. But... MAN, does it look amazing!
Just the name Trench crusade sorta sounds like 40k off wish. I’m sure it’s great but it has similar energy to IP like the battle toads coming out in the era of TMNT.
nah man, the proof is in the pudding. Not everything that is similar in vibe is a ripoff. It's possible to like something already existing and have your own unique spin on it. As long as that's the case and it's authentic (and judging from the designs - it is) they are good as gold.
What I love is they have free rules on the site. The book will have them but if you don’t care about art or story you can still get free rules. Of course I backed to get the book and minis. 😊
Hard pass from me. This video makes it seem like Trench Crusade is just all the worst parts of 40k without any of what REALLY make's 40k's setting special. I hate all that grimdark misery where there's never anything good and nothing can ever get better. In a setting like that there's just no reason to care about what happens in it or which of the horrible groups ends up winning. No, what really makes 40k special is that it *gives you a way to FIGHT against all that*. The magic of 40k is that you get to stand up to those monstrous cosmic hell-gods and *shoot them in the face with a railgun*, just like Buffy in the episode with the rocket launcher. The magic of 40k is that all that grimdark misery can be *conquered*, *vanquished* by you, the player, and your little metal dudes. That you can fight back against the night, and win, with a crazy arsenal of sci fi hardware. (Yes, you get three guesses as to which 40k faction has been my main army since I started with the game 20 years ago and the first two don't count). Unless Trench Cursade adds something like that, I'm out. Give me a faction of H.G. Wells inspired humanist secular socialist scientists driving back the legions of heaven and hell and conquering them with science and technology, carving out a new bright future for all humanity, and zooming around in high-tech land ironclads and flying wings without a single trace of grimdark while everyone else is slogging through the mud and trenches, something I can blast The Spirit Of Man by Jeff Wayne to while playing them. Give me something like that, and then we'll talk more about me considering Trench Crusade. Add something like that and we'll also talk more about Trench Crusade beating Warhammer getting mainstream appeal (because let's be real here, grimdark is niche among niches). Actually just give me something like that anyway, that concept sounds awesome.
I'm wary of their PR, though, after all the poisonous tree frogs they hired to manage their Discord servers. Still, between this and Kings of War on the Fantasy front, I hope competitors, as King Henry V once put it, "Match their rackets to these balls and, by God's grace, play a set which will strike his father's crown into the hazard." Which, translated from Shakespeare, means, "a stiff whack to the nards." Hands-down the best way to say it, in any faux-feudal setting.
thats why my own plaastic crack fix lastly has been a more obscure title, that maybe isnt grimdark but that you'd have a hard time really calling hopeful either (the alien invasion happened, humanity LOST, and the survivors made a new society with the sole goal to come back and get revenge on the invaders, with their odds of success.. not being too great even without considering the the factions, up to an including the recently-added AIs that are essentially Orks with the humor stripped off of them as far as their motives go) too small for the tree frogs to care.
What do you mean "poisonous tree frogs"? If you mean that they swiftly got rid of all the 40K trolls that attempted to jump ship to TC because 40K was "too woke", I say good riddance. If you mean something else, I'm genuinely curious.
@@theandf It wasn't just amateur trolls who got banned. If that were the beginning and end of it, there wouldn't have been a controversy surrounding it. But when mods try to pressure someone into deleting a lawful social media post, one where they simply post a server profile that anyone on said server can see... Then lock down the server because of how much ire they stirred up... Then say they'll unlock the thing when people have "calmed down" (as if it's someone else's fault that they came off as unreasonable)... I tend to regard both those kinds of people, and the people who stick up for their anti-marketing, as poisonous tree frogs: brightly colored and easily spotted, thus best kept at a distance.
Not sure if you're interested but they removed the weapons for the "Necron Seraptek Heavy Contruct Body" from their online shop and left the body itself in.
I wouldn't say that Trench Crusade was the first minis game to come at 40K from the Grimdark side Mutant Chronicles was fairly Grim, untrustworthy mega corporation-states fighting each other and the legions of Hell
Part of the charm of Warhammer 40K is also the anarchochronistic technology - and trench crusade has that in spades, especially in the old stories from the patreon (now found on the subreddit) - the Paladins have nerve-linked power armor and they tried to use neutron bombs against the Black Grail - also the Church Space Progam.
I backed it been playing a while, very campaign driven like Mordheim ; lots of chances to kitbash wargames Atlantic WW1 figs are good bolt action as well
@@tm5123they said theyre not interested in being a publically traded company because it is essentially a vehicle for their own creativity that they have cannot express in their day jobs. I believe them they are passionate about this and that is why it has been a success so far
Warmachine player here, and it's still around. On fourth edition now, new lore coming out, just released a new two player battle box, and there is more coming down the pipe. Still a super fun game :D
The entire franchise was sold for chump change to to probably one single publisher thats even worse and less competent than privateer press. I admire your optimism but i have very little hope for the game . New Cygnar and Khador models lack the steampunk or even dieselpunk (considering the timeskip) vibe - they are straight up scifi , and pretty generic one at that. Trollbloods, who were best faction in OG, were replaced with pirate clowns. Orgoth, khymaera, and dusk are forgettable , generic and overdegsined. Its all awful. The only good idea was scaling down the game size - mk3 was incredibly bloated , and at the same time theme forces were too restrictive and killed the fun. Which is too bad. Early MKI small scale battles (before the game turned into WarInfantry, rather than WarMachine) were possibly most fun i had in wargaming during last 30 years. What happened to the game breaks my damn heart. And dont even get me started on pressgangers and lgs fiasco. Or the damn riot quest lolrandom clown characters infestation. Sorry if i sound incredibly bitter, but thats because i am.
@TabletopTurtle No, it's just made history with a 3 million dollar kickstarter after being on the wargaming communities radar for months. This game has the potential to break into the market with the likes of Necromunda/Infinity/Marvel Crisis protocol/etc.
If you're not bleeding to Death, with a belly full of parasites, and the Universe isn't on fire, in the shadow of an unstoppable evil, what are you really playing?
in other words: Warhammer 40K made the move from Grim Dark to Noble Dark by bringing the spark of hope back into the life of the Imperium by returning Roboute Guilliman back to life, and with him, change for the better. Trench Crusade exploits the vaccuum left in 40K's absence by bringing the despair and nihilist grim darkness back to table top with its setting and its miniatures.
You nailed the change in the ethos of 40K over the past couple of decades. From a huge, monstrously indifferent universe to Marvel Superhero time. I think the addition of Chaos in 1988 actually sowed the seeds of that eventual degeneration, but even then, it didn't have to be this way! It could have still been a nightmare reality of cosmic immensity, even then, but having "evil" embodied literally in the setting made it easier to eventually mold into a good vs bad dichotomy with heroic melodrama at the forefront.
I don't think Chaos messed with the uncaring universe aspect, people like to think of Chaos as being THE MAIN BAD GUYS, but the main bad guys are everybody, the Chaos Gods aren't really evil themselves, they're genuinely just forces of nature that a bunch of crazy evil people like to worship, so they're just a parallel to the Imperials in many ways, crazy guys who torture and ruin societies in the name of a god who never actually told them to do any of this.
Hey Discourse, Great post. We know that you collect Sisters, how about showing us your collection? I, for one, would love to see it and hear about how you got into the Sisters
It’s funny rouge trader was based on Thatchers Britain they just exaggerated the doom and gloom of free market run wild. But it’s now Capitalism that’s bringing back the Primarch’s and the Primarius and giving hope to the universe. ❤❤❤❤ 💴 💰 💸 ❤❤❤❤
I heard about it coming out at my local gaming store like 3 to 4 months back. Waiting for War Games Atlantic to release there corruption sprue outside of The Last War before trying to make a band for it.
Don't kid yourself, Trench Crusade is a pretty game thanks to Franchina but it is severely mismanaged. People have paid to get a rulebook whose rules are STILL in a developmental phase because Tuomas can't get around finishing them, and not until the summer of 2025 we'll see the results of the Kickstarter - and now the backers got a notice about having to pay some taxes on top of whatever they pledged or something along those lines. I wish them well but everything so far is pretty experimental.
Even though Gameworkshop is starting to ruin Warhammer due to hiring morons who don't understand the true warhammer, trench crusade seems to have more problems in terms of morons who don't understand grim dark societies are. Already there were loads of people banned from TC forums and the discord for stupid reasons because they didn't like Warhammer bending the knee to stupid amazon and changing fundamental lore. There are problems with people injecting their own personal beliefs in to their jobs when they are there to continue and expand the work, not add their own beliefs that are counter to the constructed universe.
It's a Kickstarter. I could not care less how much it made. Unless this game hits the Shelves in my FLGS, looks good, plays good and gains a community it is just one thing and one thing alone: Another collector/hoarder nightmare that will hardly see any paint.
It's rather funny that the work of artists like John Blanche turned 40K from a game marketed to children (as it was in 2nd ed), to an enduring grimdark staple. Yet that very willingness to embrace a moody, complicated, textured art style has been scrubbed away in modern 40K. Where art doesn't exist to excite or inspire, but to act as further advertisement for the product line. And artists don't have the freedom to tell stories or flesh out the world, but to adhere strictly to a design bible in service to that advertisement. When you create a feast for the eyes, it draws them in and makes people curious without a single word being spoken. Whereas bland, sterile artwork betrays the total lack of vision behind the property. Wargames that have a strong artistic vision, even if it isn't 100% replicated in "official" models, sets the tone for the experience the players will hopefully have. There's a strong mood inspired in the illustrations for games like Trench Crusade, Turnip28, and This Quar's War. Even if you don't know how it plays, you know how it FEELS. If that particular vibe is your jam, you'll flock to it faster than any work-for-hire piece cranked out by an underpaid and unmotivated artist filling space in one of dozens of codices.
I have said this before. I know I Am in the minority but this game really does nothing for me. It kind of feels like it is trying to outdo 40k, and why would I want a knock off 40k if I can just play 40k? (by the way I do not even like 40k that much). As a 15+ years game developer I have seen this countless of times, a small fish trying to outdo a large shark all by itself not understanding that you have got to do your own thing if you really want to stand the test of time, not just be "that 40k replacement game".
No definitely not lone there, it does nothing for me either. It basically just has all the worst parts of 40k without any of the upsides that make me care about 40k. As a 10+ years writer I see it a lot too, often someone taking the surface features of a big IP without really fully understanding all the stuff that goes on behind them to make them work.
The real question is: "why don't you want to play 40k?" Exorbitant prices, the miniatures you buy may get removed from the game at every new edition. Fake editions who are just beta for "real" editions (6, 8 and 10 editions are just betas for 7, 9 and 11), basically we pay to be beta testers. I don't care if TC is a rip-off (I don't consider it that, but I can be wrong and I don't care), if more people stop to buy GW games and move to other wargames is only good for the hobby.
Why do some TH-camrs insist on talking so loudly? What's that all about? What's wrong with a nice quiet calm voice. I know you Northern Irish are capable of talking quietly, I've seen it happen!
Where were all these people when Warzone was trying to reboot? I remember when Mutant Chronicles: Warzone was actually a game you could go buy. When the game was trying to be resurrected, no one cared. My guess is a large proportion of the backers are WW1 and WW2 tabletop gamers.
It's Mutant Chronicles... from 2008. If you missed this little gem of a film put it on your bucket list the "mecha," visuals and cast are both strong & surprising.
Grimdark is not the reason for warhammer success (though it’s an aspect) simple fact is Warhammer is easy to get hold of.There’s a store in most towns or at least an independent which stocks it.. most people’s first experience with wargames is warhammer and it’s the starter market they seem to care more about now.
My understanding is that Warmachine got taken down by its owners catering to tournament gamers rather than luring new gamers into the game. Not to mention that after 20 years and I don't know how much money, they made my entire collection obsolete with one sentence.
I don't know that they did anything that Warhammer hasn't done dozens of times over the years. I guess the difference is that Warmachine fans were largely people that left Warhammer and are therefore more likely to dump an IP that treats them poorly.
They seem to be trying to relaunch the game, with Cryx (my favourite) getting a new starter set even though they said Cryx was effectively done. They went down the Rackham and White Wolf road and made some REALLY stupid decisions and that killed their games amongst the standard gamers-hopefully they can come back from it, though I doubt it. As for Trench Crusade, I like the look of it but it's going to be too niche if it stays unavailable in stores.
@@NathanielGarro-ru7du Privateer Press has sold the IP to Steam Forged Games, a brittish publisher. A lot of people are actually coming back to the game after they burned out on MK3 (3rd edition)
The thing that annoyed me and stopped me from doing anything with it...and it is because of the autistic nature of myself. Is that a lot of the characters are meant to be WW1 themed...but they have WW2 weapons or at least WW2 pattern weapons...
The year the game is set in is 1914, but the tech is centuries south and maybe 40 years north of that because it has developed very differently. They alloys made from metals that literally never existed on earth before, such as from the miraculous Wall of Iskander that protects the Iron Sultanate, or medicines dervived from weird communions with the flesh of the clones o Christ. On a broader scale, they have huge tanks, humaoid shaped walker bots and jet tech in 1914.
@@scannerbarkly Yes...but I would be fine if they were weird war versions of ww1 weapons, or even odd prototype variants from explanations...but they are just using the 1918 BAR, 1921 Thompson, and 1916 Mk3 SMLE. I get that it is a personal niggle...but it would be odd for a WW2 themed character to be rocking an L1A1 which is only 10yrs post WW2, but the technology would be a bit odd to see. It isn't necessarily wrong to do it (as in I don't want to stop others enjoying it)...just was something that stuck out as something I couldn't get past.
I got beef with GW, but...but I am not so shortsighted to think Trench Crusade crushed or will crush Warhammer. It is simply the new hotness, looks good, plays...okay-ish. It is going to have issues with its Discord/28 drama, not big enough production and okay-ish game play. I hope it does well and expels the future problems quickly but I am not seeing it right now. I think they are going to ride the high and then it will die off or be regulated to 'remember that one game?' like Warma/Hordes, Blood Red Skies, etc. I hope it does well though.
An analogy would be the arrival of PUNK music.... raw nihilistic, dark, powerful. The Art does it and so far the miniatures.... Exciting. Love yer voice!
Within two years there will be little talk about TC. I have been playing the beta since they started having it open for public use. Its good and fine, the lure is in the Grimdark art and the open nature they have for mini creation, rules will stay free, this is the best option to keep the system alive but again within two years there will be little talk about this.
Let the time be the judge, now its so overhyped. I think the rules will be the fall for that game but nice figurines. Just because some peoples put alot of money in a game dont say it will crush GW. 😂 So FFS calm down and sitt down in the boat
I hear ya! Don't know if 3rd/4th ed 40K was more grimdark... but it was much more open as you say. That's one of the reasons I fell off the GW cart, 40K "lore" became more restrictive than actual historical games I currently play.
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GW is going to relaunch 4th Edition 40K..... Bookmark this post for 2026. 😆
Why does the Devil hate humanity? Well, it's not like we can ask him.
Biblically speaking, the "son of man" is meant to screw him over royally in prophecy.
Also, he fucked around and found out. Meanwhile humanity fucks around and get's told "you can be better if you try."
did you forgot to tell them who runs that? we don't need another hell-diver situation
LOL The sheer level of pure 100% Delusion Copium in this vod is truly impressive
Is Trench crusade out yet or your just overhyping a future scam game?
WW1 was really nasty. Most people really have no clue at how bad it was. Trench warfare is insanely brutal.
I agree. What most people don't understand is that the weaponry used, even the rifles, were insanely overpowered and resulted in people getting literally shredded to pieces. It was also the first war where tanks and heavy machine guns were used. I cannot even fathom the kind of carnage that people saw, and it's something that no one could forget.
Combined my family sent 11 out of 12 to that war, 4 came back, one dropped dead with influenza 2 weeks after being demobbed, 2 would die of young and in both cases everyone said "the war took em, took a decade but still the war took em", one, their lungs finally gave out (took a lung full of phosgene in spring 1918) and the other was more anxiety/stress leading to stomach issues. So Yeah, those trenches were so brutal they were still claiming lives 10-15 years after the fighting stopped.
The one that survived a long time afterwards was in Germany when the war broke out working in a Circus and had to run across the border into the Netherlands. When he finally made it back to the UK They would not let him 'serve' as he was an entertainer and music hall artist (he'd been an understudy to Chaplin and Stan Laurel when they were on the stage in London with "Fred Karno's Army", the Monty Python of their day) so he effectively ended up concert hall party. If you made a movie of his adventures people would call Bulls#!t.
@@Gamebent1 the rifles didnt shred that hard. The frequent artillery barrages on an almost daily basis however... there is a reason facial reconstruction is a medical practice that started durng WW1. the need for it was just that great.
WW1 was not more or less brutal than all wars befor or after.
The difference was the sheer number of people involved, the allmost complete stalmate for several years and the resulting extreme use of artillery.
Also societies at the time lacked the methods to deal with the sheer order of magnitude. There is a learning curve to this as well.
Not to mention insanely boring. Just sitting around in mud forever until you die.
Some us still remember the bygone days when the business side of Games Workshop served the whims of the Design Studio. Now, the Design Studio serves the whims of the business side of Games Workshop, to the greater blandification of all.
we here at games workshop find your opinion to be transphobic... you have been banned for all official stores and events...enjoy
Excuse me, we are not slaves of Satan, thank you. It's really more of a coop.
Edit: I do feel like you are spot on on as well, Games Workshop have left the real grim dark behind and it's now just "good humans versus the other guys" and that's somewhat dull. I don' think it's the main reason for TCs success, but I do feel like people are a little tired of being sold grim dark with the edges filed down. A good dose of Grimderp is now just what the doctor ordered.
Like a chicken coop?
For him more like a real coupé
When a company has been dominant as GW has been there's times when they are going to relax and take the foot of the pedal
But gw real problem is their creative team isn't as bonkers as the creative team that pioneered wh40k and the difference is getting noticeable now
@@1kizhun Yet the Sigmar team continues to knock it out of the park
@brib9716 their free to go in any direction they want with all factions but wh40k the marines overshadow other factions it's not so much fun now
I just hope that Trench Crusade puts a DOWNWARD pressure on prices rather than GW continuing to put an UPWARD pressure .
Don't think so, TC is more a open source game with emphasis in the artsy side, not a business competitor to GW
Seeing as its STLs were the same price as other games resin minis yeah no. Its a niche game in a niche hobby.
@@yagsipcc287
The difference being that a single STL purchase can net a person or friend group as many minis as they have resin to print them with.
@@1krani I back many projects I 3d print almost everything. The prices for the STLs for what you get and what they are were high I expect them to be higher once it goes out to the open outside of KS as is the standard. Again the STLs were around the price I have seen for resin minis for around the same model count that also had STLs part of their projects. But anyway I have been playing the beta ever since it was open for people to apply, been playing it on and off for many months I enjoy it.
NGL for me the prices feel pretty same
Between this and "The Forever Winter", a game where you don't even play as the warring factions, just scavengers trying to survive in the endless literal war worshipping nightmare that is the future, we're eating good for... horrific dystopian grimdark settings.
When somebody said: "Tuomas Piriene is doing a new game".
All hobby community turned on their radars
Trench crusade is cool and all, but it’s far from a war hammer replacement. It’s a completely different genre
Death Korps of Krieg anyone 🤣😂🤣
They both have their own identities, for sure, but they do share a lot of DNA. A grimdark, hopeless setting of constant war that can consign millions to their deaths for an inch of land that's retaken the very next day, with zealous devotion to a single religion that doesn't tolerate even the slightest deviation for risk of heresy. Those same heretics are humans that fell down a dark path and are now aligned with the forces of actual, literal Hell, demons and all.
Really, the biggest deviation is focusing nearly exclusively on the historical influences of Imperial Guard regiments and taking aliens out of the equation. And even then, with characters like the paladins, we do basically have Space Marines, they're just actual Catholics and not Space Catholics.
They're both absolutely sick aesthetics though, and even if it does end up doing better than Warhammer, I don't want one replacing the other. Let the two settings duke it out in their own eternal war, the spoils being the contents of our wallets.
So, give a lot of credit to Mike Franchina who has been for the last couple years been painting the most amazing and evocative artwork for it. His images and descriptions have been spreading around the internet for awhile.
It's the circle of life. Crazy inspired indy product launches. Hits a chord with the audience and gains a following. Product is successful and breaks into the mainstream. Successful indy project is sold to or bought out by big corporation. Product is watered down to appeal to a mass market, creating an opportunity for the next crazy inspired indy product to fill the void left behind.
GW didn't even have the excuse of being bought out. They went corporate and clueless all by themselves.
@@1kranito the deep sorrow of anyone who's been a fan for a decade or more.
2:36 - "Who cares about WWI? The sequel was WAY better!!" ROFLMAO!!!! 🤣😆🤣
Yeh this made me laugh too much. Imma steal this!
What I wonder is why didn't WW2 become gridlocked trench warfare like WW1 did?
@@Mark-sd4hv because of lessons learned, tactics evolved, and leaps in tech (e.g. tanks and aircraft in WW2 were wildly more effective than in WW1, both the tech itself and the ways of employing them). Also keep in mind not all of WW1 was trench warfare; WW1's Eastern Front wasn't.
@@Mark-sd4hv Improvements in artillery, armoured vehicles and fighter bombers made trench warfare untenable. It's no fun crouching in a trench whilst planes and artillery are pounding the hell out of it... one flamethrower tank could sterilise all the trenches and bunkers whilst crushing the barbed wire defences common in trench warfare.
I wouldn't say this game crashes Warhammer. From the rules and the setting, it seems the two can co-exist just fine. Heck, it's probably great that a lot of their models are interchangable.
I love the fact that it isn't even out, yet people already lost their mind for it.
WW1 between Satan and the spanish inquisition. And the game admit the spanish inquisition is somehow worse. What's there to hate ?
@crash-testproductions9341 Looks promising to me. The question remains - how much the lore will be developed afterwards. The chief reason why most Warhammer-killers fail is because they fail to produce a universe so interesting to rival it.
Game has been out for well over a year in free play test the hype is because of the Kickstarter
@@surful Well yes, the rules are, but I perfer "official" minis to play it with. Not much of a 3d printer owner or kitbasher.
@@crash-testproductions9341 Spanish Inquisition! Nobody expects it! But then again no one understands the real reason behind it. It wasn’t heretics and witches.
I am more and more happy about mini agnostic games, but as long as you got good friends all games...even Warhammer is minis agnostic.
Clickbait? More like masterbait.
😩🫠🫠😅
Pause
I really have a bone about calling Trench Crusade "alternate history WW1", there is nothing remotely similar in the lore to suggest that the nations that took part in WW1 are actually present, however changed. Trench Crusade has a "WW1 aesthetic" which is completely valid, just not as readily marketable. It's a minor nitpick, but I think it's an important distinction.
It all started with a group of Templars during the crusades who mistakenly or on purpose unlocked the gates of hell, and the world has been fighting ever since... New Antioch, the Sultanate, and all sorts of legions from Hell, etc. being a some of the factions.
@@XAncientRelicX That's rather my point. The crusades that take place nearly a thousand years before the start of WW1. And by the time that you get to when WW1 is meant to take place in the timeline, the Trench Crusade timeline has already diverged so radically that even countries like the UK, the USA, Russia and China no longer exist. You can't replace China with the Sultanate or the USA with New Antioch and have the same WW1 conflict.
40K lost me when they removed the armoury in 10th. My Chaos lords were my characters. I customised them, designed them, and outfitted them accordingly. In other words, they removed _me_ from the game when they got rid of the armoury.
We're now at a stage where they want you to only buy what's in the box. No customisation, no flavour. Why did we get _two separate_ Chaos lord profiles this year? Why, because the kits are monopose, there is only one option, and they don't want you to make your own so that you can buy both models!
And how quick we are to forget that they put them in two _separate_ battleforce boxes at launch.
They lost me when they started to tailor the game for tournament/competitive players. They did away with all the characterful random rules that were in earlier editions because the competitive guys couldnt reliably curb stomp their opponents every game.
The only thing that will kill Warhammer is itself, all things eventually die and WH is reaching a point of critical mass where it'll either implode and disappear or adapt and change. I look forward to either happening.
Their crapping on their Lore and going woke is a good start
agree, this is what happens when a company rule with a de-facto monopoly on the niche
So they made 3 days of gw revenue for their releases for a year.
The most amazing thing about the Kickstarter result for Trench Crusade is that the game is in effect totally free. Miniatures agnostic and free rules and lore downloads so why pay to play? Simple, because the official minis are cool and the book will, I expect, give us more of what we want judging by the names of the creative team being linked to it. This and the recent Infinity N5 release prove that people will still buy the books even if rules are always free. I wouldn't be surprised if GW don't decide to take this route when 40K 11 edition comes around.
Yeah, as someone who recently jumped into Bolt Action, and playing IJA no less, I couldn't help but also notice some of the IJA heads were "questionable" to put it lightly. Luckily there were multiple different heads that looked better that I chose from and also the heads with the glasses I painted black to make them look like they have really cool sunglasses.
Be sweet if I could proxy my old first-born marines in this new game. Nice middlefinger to GW discontinuing whole armies to force you to buy entire new armies.
As long as your opponent is cool with it, why can’t you?
I think New Antioch has a space marine looking unit.
@@JMcMillen thats what I was thinking. The german looking hell forces are prime to use my starship trooper cadians with an easy head swap from some german wehrmact STLs I got. Boom, done. Instant army. Stick it to GW.
Do it, make them New Antioc soldiers, as they are the most regimented faction and boom, whole army in use
Its the background selling it.
For rules, there are other systems out there, but Trench Crusade, the background just feels like someone decided Warhammer 40k was not grim or dark enough and got H.R. Geiger and Clive Barker in as consultants.
As a long time player of Traveller, it is good to see the bell curve of 2d6 getting some love.
I feel you on the feel of it going to epic heroes and hanger ons fighting.
Most competitive armies need them to be competitive.
I miss making a commander nearly as good as any hero, but from my own army's world. Now it feels like railroading to a handful of armies.
The Marvel thing is spot on, everyone's asking "when's the next Primarch movie coming up?" and the idea in the past that Daemon Primarchs were not more powerful than their lesser, mortal brothers was laughable... but Angron and Magnus and Mortarion, even Nurgle, are all getting badly Worfed.
I'd say Morty got off okay. He literally won that fight, until Emps juiced up Rowboat and then went on an arson spree in Nurgle's front yard.
Angron, though? Losing to the Lion after Johnson had about 10,000 years of rust to shake off? Yeah, no, Johnson should've at least lost a limb, if not the fight.
@1krani even when they win they're not allowed to win.
@@Sinewmire
Can't have too many viable threats at once or the faction minis GW wants to push won't sell as well, according to corporate idiots.
@@1krani Yeah, Space Marines gotta win, because Space Marines sell, and nobody wants to buy losers. I'm still waiting for a really good Chaos novel. Last one was Storm of Iron.
Ugh! Just when i was about to surrender my soul to Yog sothoth. This drops
I think it also has something to do with the Capirotes the trench pilgrims wear. From Silent Hill to Blasphemous, we love those tall, pointy helmets. 😊
My brother
I'm all open for more interesting competion to warhammer and especially 40k, but Trench Crusade ever coming close to becoming similar popular than 40k, Age of Sigmar and Warhammer in general is a stretch.
It’s not competition at all since it won’t be in stores, as they specifically don’t want it to be available for retail.
I think a large percent of adult gamers will jump ship though
Hell hates you because Satan hates humans because he feels God favors them over the Angels from which he fell.
Hell is the absence of Good. Heaven is love so Hell is filled with hate. Heaven is peace so Hell is torment
Yes, 40k doesn't need named characters on the table, let alone primarchs. Someone like Calgar or Abaddon should be near mythical figures to our guys on the table. They should NOT be appearing in every little skirmish that their force fights.
Trench Crusade looks cool but holy hell those first thirty seconds massive overblow it
This will "crush" Warhammer in the same way Kings of War "crushed" Warhammer over a decade ago but on a far lesser scale as its not even competing for shelf space. i.e. It won't.
And BlueSky is crushing X/Twitter. Hype mixed with hate and some questionable people leading Trench Crusade give me pause.
I will argue that Warhammer - the tabletop and the books - has never reflected the vibes from illustrations that actually brought people into it.
The grimdark was never there. Even when you look at older editions, it was always focused on the silly guys in power armour, rather than on suffering wretches in robes.
So, obviously, when something else promised the same vibes - and decided to actually deliver on this promise - it was doomed to be successful.
bull$$$$$$$it
Holy crap. As a WW1 nut and Dieselpunk.... I must admit, I have seen some stuff recommended to me, but I didn't realize how much I would love this.
But, MAN, do I not have budget or space to get into something at this scale. But... MAN, does it look amazing!
Just the name Trench crusade sorta sounds like 40k off wish. I’m sure it’s great but it has similar energy to IP like the battle toads coming out in the era of TMNT.
nah man, the proof is in the pudding. Not everything that is similar in vibe is a ripoff. It's possible to like something already existing and have your own unique spin on it. As long as that's the case and it's authentic (and judging from the designs - it is) they are good as gold.
What I love is they have free rules on the site. The book will have them but if you don’t care about art or story you can still get free rules.
Of course I backed to get the book and minis. 😊
Hard pass from me. This video makes it seem like Trench Crusade is just all the worst parts of 40k without any of what REALLY make's 40k's setting special. I hate all that grimdark misery where there's never anything good and nothing can ever get better. In a setting like that there's just no reason to care about what happens in it or which of the horrible groups ends up winning.
No, what really makes 40k special is that it *gives you a way to FIGHT against all that*. The magic of 40k is that you get to stand up to those monstrous cosmic hell-gods and *shoot them in the face with a railgun*, just like Buffy in the episode with the rocket launcher. The magic of 40k is that all that grimdark misery can be *conquered*, *vanquished* by you, the player, and your little metal dudes. That you can fight back against the night, and win, with a crazy arsenal of sci fi hardware.
(Yes, you get three guesses as to which 40k faction has been my main army since I started with the game 20 years ago and the first two don't count).
Unless Trench Cursade adds something like that, I'm out. Give me a faction of H.G. Wells inspired humanist secular socialist scientists driving back the legions of heaven and hell and conquering them with science and technology, carving out a new bright future for all humanity, and zooming around in high-tech land ironclads and flying wings without a single trace of grimdark while everyone else is slogging through the mud and trenches, something I can blast The Spirit Of Man by Jeff Wayne to while playing them.
Give me something like that, and then we'll talk more about me considering Trench Crusade. Add something like that and we'll also talk more about Trench Crusade beating Warhammer getting mainstream appeal (because let's be real here, grimdark is niche among niches). Actually just give me something like that anyway, that concept sounds awesome.
It’s a 3-5 model skirmish game. If anything it’s a spiritual successor to Dark Age.
"No weapon forged by man can harm me!"
"That was then. This is now."
*rocketgowhoosh*
@@Giomancer "What's that thing do?"
*RIP Demon Lord, primordial age before time - 1998*
I'm wary of their PR, though, after all the poisonous tree frogs they hired to manage their Discord servers.
Still, between this and Kings of War on the Fantasy front, I hope competitors, as King Henry V once put it, "Match their rackets to these balls and, by God's grace, play a set which will strike his father's crown into the hazard."
Which, translated from Shakespeare, means, "a stiff whack to the nards." Hands-down the best way to say it, in any faux-feudal setting.
thats why my own plaastic crack fix lastly has been a more obscure title, that maybe isnt grimdark but that you'd have a hard time really calling hopeful either (the alien invasion happened, humanity LOST, and the survivors made a new society with the sole goal to come back and get revenge on the invaders, with their odds of success.. not being too great even without considering the the factions, up to an including the recently-added AIs that are essentially Orks with the humor stripped off of them as far as their motives go)
too small for the tree frogs to care.
What do you mean "poisonous tree frogs"? If you mean that they swiftly got rid of all the 40K trolls that attempted to jump ship to TC because 40K was "too woke", I say good riddance. If you mean something else, I'm genuinely curious.
@@theandf
It wasn't just amateur trolls who got banned. If that were the beginning and end of it, there wouldn't have been a controversy surrounding it.
But when mods try to pressure someone into deleting a lawful social media post, one where they simply post a server profile that anyone on said server can see...
Then lock down the server because of how much ire they stirred up...
Then say they'll unlock the thing when people have "calmed down" (as if it's someone else's fault that they came off as unreasonable)...
I tend to regard both those kinds of people, and the people who stick up for their anti-marketing, as poisonous tree frogs: brightly colored and easily spotted, thus best kept at a distance.
There is another plus; If this game fails, you can use everything and turn it into 40K.
Not sure if you're interested but they removed the weapons for the "Necron Seraptek Heavy Contruct Body" from their online shop and left the body itself in.
I wouldn't say that Trench Crusade was the first minis game to come at 40K from the Grimdark side
Mutant Chronicles was fairly Grim, untrustworthy mega corporation-states fighting each other and the legions of Hell
Part of the charm of Warhammer 40K is also the anarchochronistic technology - and trench crusade has that in spades, especially in the old stories from the patreon (now found on the subreddit) - the Paladins have nerve-linked power armor and they tried to use neutron bombs against the Black Grail - also the Church Space Progam.
Props to the Black Adder Goes Forth WWI reference.
I backed it been playing a while, very campaign driven like Mordheim ; lots of chances to kitbash wargames Atlantic WW1 figs are good bolt action as well
TC is the one thing that Warhammer is not: genuine. Because it's not corporate. It's old school wargaming reimagined for a modern audience.
If it becomes more successful, it will likely become corporate, that's how it usually works.
@@tm5123they said theyre not interested in being a publically traded company because it is essentially a vehicle for their own creativity that they have cannot express in their day jobs. I believe them they are passionate about this and that is why it has been a success so far
@@almister Well, its always the true test of the loyalty to the cause, when people start waving wads of cash around :D
Yeah, I thought that as well. Until I peeked into the madness that is their discord and moderators.
Games Workshop makes more money then the British fishing industry if anyone is wondering. They are a billion dollar company.
Warmachine player here, and it's still around. On fourth edition now, new lore coming out, just released a new two player battle box, and there is more coming down the pipe. Still a super fun game :D
The entire franchise was sold for chump change to to probably one single publisher thats even worse and less competent than privateer press. I admire your optimism but i have very little hope for the game .
New Cygnar and Khador models lack the steampunk or even dieselpunk (considering the timeskip) vibe - they are straight up scifi , and pretty generic one at that. Trollbloods, who were best faction in OG, were replaced with pirate clowns. Orgoth, khymaera, and dusk are forgettable , generic and overdegsined. Its all awful.
The only good idea was scaling down the game size - mk3 was incredibly bloated , and at the same time theme forces were too restrictive and killed the fun.
Which is too bad. Early MKI small scale battles (before the game turned into WarInfantry, rather than WarMachine) were possibly most fun i had in wargaming during last 30 years. What happened to the game breaks my damn heart.
And dont even get me started on pressgangers and lgs fiasco. Or the damn riot quest lolrandom clown characters infestation.
Sorry if i sound incredibly bitter, but thats because i am.
With this Trench Crusade and One Page Rules im set for the rest of my days!.
Would be better if the trench crusade fans don't paint all 40k players at toxic.
Is the marketing director of this game handing out cash, because this thing is popping up on every content creators channel at the exact same time.
@TabletopTurtle No, it's just made history with a 3 million dollar kickstarter after being on the wargaming communities radar for months. This game has the potential to break into the market with the likes of Necromunda/Infinity/Marvel Crisis protocol/etc.
There's no marketing director. Actually, not even 1$ was spent in ads. So think again
@@WarpstoneHash Cool. Just seemed like an NDA was lifted or something. Give it a whirl on Tabletop Simulator.
Without a retail presence it won't last.
If you're not bleeding to Death, with a belly full of parasites, and the Universe isn't on fire, in the shadow of an unstoppable evil, what are you really playing?
in other words: Warhammer 40K made the move from Grim Dark to Noble Dark by bringing the spark of hope back into the life of the Imperium by returning Roboute Guilliman back to life, and with him, change for the better.
Trench Crusade exploits the vaccuum left in 40K's absence by bringing the despair and nihilist grim darkness back to table top with its setting and its miniatures.
I play too many minis games ,have too many minis painted and not and I still almost backed this kickstarter...... almost dam thing looked so cool
You nailed the change in the ethos of 40K over the past couple of decades. From a huge, monstrously indifferent universe to Marvel Superhero time.
I think the addition of Chaos in 1988 actually sowed the seeds of that eventual degeneration, but even then, it didn't have to be this way! It could have still been a nightmare reality of cosmic immensity, even then, but having "evil" embodied literally in the setting made it easier to eventually mold into a good vs bad dichotomy with heroic melodrama at the forefront.
I don't think Chaos messed with the uncaring universe aspect, people like to think of Chaos as being THE MAIN BAD GUYS, but the main bad guys are everybody, the Chaos Gods aren't really evil themselves, they're genuinely just forces of nature that a bunch of crazy evil people like to worship, so they're just a parallel to the Imperials in many ways, crazy guys who torture and ruin societies in the name of a god who never actually told them to do any of this.
Hey Discourse, Great post. We know that you collect Sisters, how about showing us your collection? I, for one, would love to see it and hear about how you got into the Sisters
It’s funny rouge trader was based on Thatchers Britain they just exaggerated the doom and gloom of free market run wild.
But it’s now Capitalism that’s bringing back the Primarch’s and the Primarius and giving hope to the universe. ❤❤❤❤ 💴 💰 💸 ❤❤❤❤
I heard about it coming out at my local gaming store like 3 to 4 months back.
Waiting for War Games Atlantic to release there corruption sprue outside of The Last War before trying to make a band for it.
Trench Crusade can't kill warhammer. GW has been trying to do it for years, but the S-imps keep it alive Weekend at Bernie's style.
Trench crusade is incredible!!! Plus it’s been around for a little while. And! You can use any mini!!!
We are THAT desperate for a game that isn’t pozzed, basically. We’re Warhammer refugees and we are 95% of the fandom.
95%? Clearly a case of a Exodite complex.
Trench Crusades released professional grade lore videos. They were wild and so bizarre you had to see the next video.
It's not going to replace warhammer. Neckbeards will never give up warhammer.
Don't kid yourself, Trench Crusade is a pretty game thanks to Franchina but it is severely mismanaged.
People have paid to get a rulebook whose rules are STILL in a developmental phase because Tuomas can't get around finishing them, and not until the summer of 2025 we'll see the results of the Kickstarter - and now the backers got a notice about having to pay some taxes on top of whatever they pledged or something along those lines.
I wish them well but everything so far is pretty experimental.
Honest alone the estethic is such a turn off and cringe to me, I have 0 interest in it.
Bang bang, Kevin's Golden hammer came down, upon his head.
Bang bang Kevin's Golden hammer made sure that he was dead.
Even though Gameworkshop is starting to ruin Warhammer due to hiring morons who don't understand the true warhammer, trench crusade seems to have more problems in terms of morons who don't understand grim dark societies are. Already there were loads of people banned from TC forums and the discord for stupid reasons because they didn't like Warhammer bending the knee to stupid amazon and changing fundamental lore.
There are problems with people injecting their own personal beliefs in to their jobs when they are there to continue and expand the work, not add their own beliefs that are counter to the constructed universe.
That's a long winded way to admit you acted like an ass online, and won the banhammer.
It's a Kickstarter. I could not care less how much it made. Unless this game hits the Shelves in my FLGS, looks good, plays good and gains a community it is just one thing and one thing alone: Another collector/hoarder nightmare that will hardly see any paint.
It's rather funny that the work of artists like John Blanche turned 40K from a game marketed to children (as it was in 2nd ed), to an enduring grimdark staple. Yet that very willingness to embrace a moody, complicated, textured art style has been scrubbed away in modern 40K. Where art doesn't exist to excite or inspire, but to act as further advertisement for the product line. And artists don't have the freedom to tell stories or flesh out the world, but to adhere strictly to a design bible in service to that advertisement.
When you create a feast for the eyes, it draws them in and makes people curious without a single word being spoken. Whereas bland, sterile artwork betrays the total lack of vision behind the property.
Wargames that have a strong artistic vision, even if it isn't 100% replicated in "official" models, sets the tone for the experience the players will hopefully have. There's a strong mood inspired in the illustrations for games like Trench Crusade, Turnip28, and This Quar's War. Even if you don't know how it plays, you know how it FEELS. If that particular vibe is your jam, you'll flock to it faster than any work-for-hire piece cranked out by an underpaid and unmotivated artist filling space in one of dozens of codices.
I have said this before. I know I Am in the minority but this game really does nothing for me. It kind of feels like it is trying to outdo 40k, and why would I want a knock off 40k if I can just play 40k? (by the way I do not even like 40k that much).
As a 15+ years game developer I have seen this countless of times, a small fish trying to outdo a large shark all by itself not understanding that you have got to do your own thing if you really want to stand the test of time, not just be "that 40k replacement game".
No definitely not lone there, it does nothing for me either. It basically just has all the worst parts of 40k without any of the upsides that make me care about 40k.
As a 10+ years writer I see it a lot too, often someone taking the surface features of a big IP without really fully understanding all the stuff that goes on behind them to make them work.
But TC was created completely outside the influence of GW, hell TC wasn't even a wargame in first place
It’s a 3-5 model skirmish game that is powered by the apocalypse.
@@dayminkaynin7-10 models.
Even more, if both players decide to play with more points.
The real question is: "why don't you want to play 40k?"
Exorbitant prices, the miniatures you buy may get removed from the game at every new edition.
Fake editions who are just beta for "real" editions (6, 8 and 10 editions are just betas for 7, 9 and 11), basically we pay to be beta testers.
I don't care if TC is a rip-off (I don't consider it that, but I can be wrong and I don't care), if more people stop to buy GW games and move to other wargames is only good for the hobby.
A bunch of inquisitors have joined the comment section to report the heresy lol
Why do some TH-camrs insist on talking so loudly? What's that all about? What's wrong with a nice quiet calm voice. I know you Northern Irish are capable of talking quietly, I've seen it happen!
Actually, it's a benefit, when the vid host is as loud as the adverts, so you don't blow your eardrums after turning the volume up to hear them.
@Discourse Minis I’m kinda glad indie games and indie miniature wargames are doing a lot better than most large companies.
I think trench crusade will do well, but the setting and lore will definitely keep religious people out of it and probably draw a bit of negativity.
Where were all these people when Warzone was trying to reboot? I remember when Mutant Chronicles: Warzone was actually a game you could go buy.
When the game was trying to be resurrected, no one cared. My guess is a large proportion of the backers are WW1 and WW2 tabletop gamers.
It's Mutant Chronicles... from 2008. If you missed this little gem of a film put it on your bucket list the "mecha," visuals and cast are both strong & surprising.
There will ve a videogame like Down of War 1 Soulstorm?! That will be the best engine to port Trench+Crusade
This sounds great and I'll probably be tapping into this storyline, but I'm going to keep looking for a good future grimdark storyline also
Trench Crusade is a joke. The lore is just elevated demonology / lost souls garbage, it won't dethrone Warhammer in any way. Good f'ing luck.
I somehow missed the KS. Hopefully will place a late pledge when they open it. This looks amazing and we'll have to wait and see how it develops.
I believe they are, but the pledge manager is only running for an extremely short time (a few weeks), so they can get .stl files sent to backers asap.
Grimdark is not the reason for warhammer success (though it’s an aspect) simple fact is Warhammer is easy to get hold of.There’s a store in most towns or at least an independent which stocks it.. most people’s first experience with wargames is warhammer and it’s the starter market they seem to care more about now.
How do you spell the painter’s name you mentioned? Schwav Pakenshky? My Google fu is failing me.
man i just started collecting a new army in 40k, i don't wanna splurge on a whole new wargame
My understanding is that Warmachine got taken down by its owners catering to tournament gamers rather than luring new gamers into the game. Not to mention that after 20 years and I don't know how much money, they made my entire collection obsolete with one sentence.
I don't know that they did anything that Warhammer hasn't done dozens of times over the years. I guess the difference is that Warmachine fans were largely people that left Warhammer and are therefore more likely to dump an IP that treats them poorly.
They seem to be trying to relaunch the game, with Cryx (my favourite) getting a new starter set even though they said Cryx was effectively done. They went down the Rackham and White Wolf road and made some REALLY stupid decisions and that killed their games amongst the standard gamers-hopefully they can come back from it, though I doubt it. As for Trench Crusade, I like the look of it but it's going to be too niche if it stays unavailable in stores.
@@NathanielGarro-ru7du Privateer Press has sold the IP to Steam Forged Games, a brittish publisher. A lot of people are actually coming back to the game after they burned out on MK3 (3rd edition)
The thing that annoyed me and stopped me from doing anything with it...and it is because of the autistic nature of myself. Is that a lot of the characters are meant to be WW1 themed...but they have WW2 weapons or at least WW2 pattern weapons...
It’s not really WW1 just the time period lots of technology overlaps
The year the game is set in is 1914, but the tech is centuries south and maybe 40 years north of that because it has developed very differently. They alloys made from metals that literally never existed on earth before, such as from the miraculous Wall of Iskander that protects the Iron Sultanate, or medicines dervived from weird communions with the flesh of the clones o Christ.
On a broader scale, they have huge tanks, humaoid shaped walker bots and jet tech in 1914.
@@scannerbarkly Yes...but I would be fine if they were weird war versions of ww1 weapons, or even odd prototype variants from explanations...but they are just using the 1918 BAR, 1921 Thompson, and 1916 Mk3 SMLE. I get that it is a personal niggle...but it would be odd for a WW2 themed character to be rocking an L1A1 which is only 10yrs post WW2, but the technology would be a bit odd to see. It isn't necessarily wrong to do it (as in I don't want to stop others enjoying it)...just was something that stuck out as something I couldn't get past.
I got beef with GW, but...but I am not so shortsighted to think Trench Crusade crushed or will crush Warhammer. It is simply the new hotness, looks good, plays...okay-ish. It is going to have issues with its Discord/28 drama, not big enough production and okay-ish game play. I hope it does well and expels the future problems quickly but I am not seeing it right now. I think they are going to ride the high and then it will die off or be regulated to 'remember that one game?' like Warma/Hordes, Blood Red Skies, etc. I hope it does well though.
An analogy would be the arrival of PUNK music.... raw nihilistic, dark, powerful. The Art does it and so far the miniatures.... Exciting.
Love yer voice!
So, you going to review, paint and play it?
You are the most beautiful brave and amazing woman AFTER my wife and my mum. Thank you 🙏🏻
Its crazy, the world agrees with me about 40k in pracyice but will still argue with me when i point it out, lol
Love to see it
Within two years there will be little talk about TC. I have been playing the beta since they started having it open for public use. Its good and fine, the lure is in the Grimdark art and the open nature they have for mini creation, rules will stay free, this is the best option to keep the system alive but again within two years there will be little talk about this.
That depends if the authors will expand the game or not.
There's definitely space for new factions and units.
Are you sure this is a Warhammer Killer? Seems more like a Catholic-propaganda board game, with no budget to design awesome machines. Lol
I have little faith this will kill Warhammer in anyway imaginable.
It won't do shit.
@ agreed
Isn't about kill Warhammer, isn't about be better than Warhammer
Let the time be the judge, now its so overhyped. I think the rules will be the fall for that game but nice figurines. Just because some peoples put alot of money in a game dont say it will crush GW. 😂 So FFS calm down and sitt down in the boat
Look at the people pissed off by it, that's good enough reason to support it.
I hear ya! Don't know if 3rd/4th ed 40K was more grimdark... but it was much more open as you say. That's one of the reasons I fell off the GW cart, 40K "lore" became more restrictive than actual historical games I currently play.
Cool to talk about it after funding stopped,lol. hopefully it'll be big enough to pick up later on, seems sick af