Mystery of Castile Swords - Medieval Dead - S03 EP03 - History Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Explore the captivating tale of the Castile Swords, lost for centuries after the Battle of Castillon in 1453. Join archaeologists as they delve into the mystery of these medieval weapons, their origins, and the enigmatic circumstances of their discovery in the Dordogne River. Uncover the historical significance, unique features, and ongoing intrigue surrounding these relics. From the legendary battlefield to the auction rooms, witness the epic journey of the Castile Swords and unravel the secrets buried in the depths of history.
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At 42:20 Tim Sutherland is right... it would be amazing if such a find were made today.
But one has just occurred: a small hoard of Roman/ Zealot era swords sequestered in a cave along the Dead Sea was discovered just last year (2023). Amazing stuff just keeps on turning up!
Castillon... in France. Not Castile, in Spain!
These videos are like Gilligans Island . They build you up only to let you down at the end.
...I disagree...
I was never let down by Gilligan's Island...
I didn't feel let down at all!
32:00 what an absolutely ludicrous statement from David Nicole. The antiquities trade does nothing but encourage looting, which not only robs us of any meaningful understanding of these objects but also despoils archaeological sites so that they can never be properly interpreted. These swords could have come from absolutely anywhere and this supposed "provenance" cooked up to drive up the sale price. For all we know, Oakeshott was getting a cut for his part in the scheme. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
Incidentally, the antiquities trade also incentivizes the creation of forgeries, some of which find their way into museum collections. I'm glad people are becoming more sensitive to this issue but the fact is this kind of thing goes on to this very day. Auction catalogs are full of unprovenanced items and no one with any power is bothered to stop it.
Exactly.
Yep, and I'm glad this comment is affixed under this doc.
I agree with you 100%. As a collector of more contemporary genres, fake items are rampant as well. What I understand is all of these collectors are driven by “I need to have one” often before a proper value or authentication is established. Its buy now figure it out later. Which drives prices and tarnishes the history and academic value of the items.
Agree with yall.
The sword will be someone's decorative home piece bought for millions. Lost to history, never fully studied, or displayed with the Story told in a museum for others to enjoy.. These Swords found in whatever location was not investigated why it was in their position. So much could have been lost or damaged.
From what I heard in the documentary, the French Navy might be the ones who are obscuring the historical record in this case, but who knows. Without collectors you have few entities willing to preserve these finds other than government, which insert your own experience with them, is less than perfect. Unless you'd like to be taxed more to have the government seize and preserve these arms, even if you were the one to discover them, seems a cry of want, rather than reason. There are countless treasures owned by antiquities dealers that we'll never see, and I understand that it runs contrary to what we'd like, but these items are not always lost, but just temporarily kept secret by others who look after them with more diligence than other institutions could afford to do. Generally, we end up seeing them at estate sales at some point, and it's certainly not in the interest of the estates to downplay their significance or historical provenance. As to the "unprovenanced items", Caveat Emptor. This is something that antiquities collectors have to manage, as well. Taking a shot at Oakeshott without any corroborating evidence is a pretty low thing to propose, as well. If you have evidence, give it. If you can't, you're simply a callous slanderer of a man who is no longer alive to defend himself.
Ewart Oakeshot sounds like it should be the name of one of the dwarves from the Hobbit.
They said he was only 5 ft tall. I guess he'd be royalty among the dwarves.
Loved this! Great documentary!
A sword is special because its so personal a weapon. Up close and personal!
If these swords were lost by soldiers drowned while escaping across the river you'd expect there to be more than just swords turning up. There wold be polearms, daggers, armour, ... etc. The crate theory seems far more plausible.
An back up Swords, the main force ran forward into combat. Many may get sword damage, little way to correct the damage so the get a back up sword. The military failed and was routed so the back Swords and everything else took off like bat out of H377. So some swords were lost in the river during the E&E of the defeated enemy. Or since the military was Defeated the back up Swords were scuttled in the river to be kept out of the victors hands.
I dated a girl from bordeaux who told me a story of four children who while swimming in a river found an helmet and 2 swords close to the bank. After taking them home a farmer parent went to the spot and found more. Can this be the same swords. Makes you think.
I think I dated that same chick. Turned out to be a dude.
@@bebo4807 I dated that chick too. Definitely a dude. I'm just glad that I got my set of helmets and swords too after listening to the same story.
And that kiddies is your bedtime fairy tale for this evening
The swords are "Castillon", not "Castile." Wrong country, wrong coast.
How is your comment the ONLY one to point out this huge flaw??? The makers of this video lost all credibility before I even hit play.
It is however leading me down the rabbit hole of finding out about the castillon history. So a win is still a win
Done on purpose too throw people off the track.
The opening credits said castillion.
@@alexsanders2423@0:55
Sounds like whoever had these swords wanted the mystique to carry on to keep the prices high , so they were released slowly ,
The question of who’s making money out of this stuff is barely touched on. I think the worst aspect of this is that keeping the source and the ownership secret obstructs any serious attempt to unravel the history of these objects. Is part of the secrecy to do with covering up illegality?
Friendly enthusiastic and approachable
I love these types of videos!
Me too specially when Tim’s Narrating
11:31 As for swords go that's a super scary looking sword. No pleasantries, it stabs and it cuts up close, brutal.
Have you seen the bones whacked by swords from the 1361 Visby Gutland mass graves? The cutting power just sends chills through me to think about it. Whacking off both legs below the knees in one swipe is pretty sobering.
@daneaxe6465 yeah its brutal. What I think about from visby is that's a small glimpse at common practice. Total savagery.
@@daneaxe6465 I have, absolutely scary to look at and to think about.
Excellent, educational video 👏
Except it's wrong
Great video
I learned a lot Watchung tbis!
Its just such a shame the history and true provenance is gone. To me they are worth no more than any other sword of that time. Someone could have a big bucket of swords they got from across Europe and made the whole thing up. Proper archaeological record should have been made to document the find.
One thing I noticed is the length of the handle to the pommel is very short would that suggest that the men were smaller
One-handed swords were by far the most commonly used sword of the entire Middle Ages. Even during the Late Middle Ages when the two-handed longsword was on the scene, one-handed swords were still way more numerous. The Castillon Swords are just one-handed swords from the very Late Middle Ages, that's all. If you think these have short grips, you ought to see the grips on many of the swords from what we call the "Viking Era", i.e. the Dark Ages, or earlier Middle Ages! If you get the chance, watch some of Matt Easton's (aka Scholagladiatoria) videos about swords with short grips, specifically Indian Tulwars. Hint: the grips are not shorter because 17th century Indian people were smaller! Although, the temptation to think this is understandable.
Tbh I can't believe those swords were in water for 500 years. To me they were stored dry like lost in a building.
Depends on many factors. Water can preserve if it is low in oxygen, and if it is very cold and low in oxygen, even better. In Michigan, there is Lake Superior, deep, cold, and lacking oxygen, and bodies are known to remain untouched by corruption, and metal looks as if it has just been immersed.
Great documentary I love documentaries that have Tim in it
and when talking about Oakshot and sword types, are we talking about THE oakeshot? that's impressive
I have two of these, my sons made them in my shop when they were teenagers, but they're not for sale. Too valuable to me.
If you are raising an army you will have baggage trains. You will have stores of extras and reserves. Any loot aquired wjll be in transit. How often are baggage trains ambushed at water crossings.
It's the mud that does a baggage train in. Muddy and forested choke points were more often a favored tactic. It allows for cover for your men and nowhere to go for them.
Definitely, or it could have been on the way, didnt make it into friendly hands before the retreat, then would have been essentially contraband. Rather than get caught with the weapons by the French they dumped them in the river. Definitely could have been supplies for the battle and somehow didn't make it.
This is just great, what a video! Well done.
The most likely hypothesis on why they were found together is that they were voluntarily thrown there during a disarming ceremony of allegiance related to the recognition of a new sovereign ruler.
nope.
So informative, brilliant video but £12,000.....I wouldn't have let that sword go for £12,000.
If the sword is not of a particularly rare type or definitively linked to a famous person or battle, £12,000 is not a bad price. A 'bog standard' medieval sword can sell at auction for just a couple of thousand pounds.
Is there anyone making replicas of such swords these days?
@@johng4093you mean a usable and new looking one or one that looks like a find? There for sure are blacksmiths around that make those. In Germany everything like that is well liked and we have many medieval festivals every year in various sizes.
A groovy and fascinated episode.
I own a similar sword that made it all the way to Sudan. It has castile makers marks
Stolen
@will-i-am-not A gift 🎁 from Mars and the battle of Omdurman. My Ancestors are Spanish; so I appreciate the Sudanese for preserving the sword. I have two with Spanish and German blades. They sold them as surplus arms when my dad was a kid in the 1940's.
What's a real shame is the current prohibition in Sudan on making swords...
How much do they go for?
Sudan swords are made locally in Sudan and normally not that old at all since the same type was far into the 1900`s. You can get them fairly cheap.
I wonder if there are more to be found
Most of my life I was interested in forging and metal work…. When I joined the military was probably my best chance but I was chosen for a different career. I wanted to do it all from forming custom sheet metal by hand into tanks and fenders to custom welding, even milling and lathe work. But most of all blade forging. My life has left me disabled but I’m still trying to make a hand full of my own knives… it’s just killing me. Maya if I had a press or power hammer of some sort I tried taking a piece of weld steel and tried to make a diamond blade profile and I only got may 6 inches of it done. I just can’t handle the labor it would take to make even a short sword.
10:35 don't touch it with your bare hands! They should know better!
Great doc guys. Mow I'm off to visit Albion for a while.
Agree, he sounds as a sophisticated looter and grave robber
Boats being sunk in big rivers with nice cargos isn’t really unusual. The Columbia River certainly has its sunken boats and barges.
More than 2,000 wrecks within ten miles of the Bar alone...
I know a number of river steamboats were lost on the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. One was dug up in northwest Missouri and IIRC its hull got speared by a submerged tree. It sank fast in very deep water so most of its cargo was still in boxes. Seems that fires and boiler explosions were the biggest causes of loss.
The Columbia river is pretty rough compared to inland rivers from what I've heard and seen. The Missouri river scares me so I stay off it. Heard too many thumps on the hull, sudden shallow sandbars grab you like velcro and I wrecked a prop in "deep water". The Lewis & Clark Expedition really earned their pay going upstream on that river.
Its pretty much grave robbing, with no provinance, or proof of ownership, yet still the big auctions houses sell it for profit .
If we sold them privately you would probably be breaking the law
Got that 💯% correct.
Very interesting
Why wasn't The Wallace Collection museum involved in this documentary?
😳 bare handed, no glove ..
10:50
I think a museum would be the proper place for something like this. I would never pay money for something in such bad condition but its history is important and interesting.
Bad condition? The fact they still exist after 500+ years means they are in great condition you goober. Most metal rusts into nothing in that span of time.
Way to try to sound smart and fail tho
It is more likely that a wagon would be caught by a tidal surge than a boat or barge, the captain of which would normally have knowledge of such a possibility.
Bearing in mind the Iberian location of Castille, it is a fairly major ommission to fail to explain the difference between the 'Castile' in the title, and 'Castillon', the actual location in mid-western France, hundreds of miles and a whole mountain chain separated from 'Castille' (which is well within Spain).
So all these were really stolen, and the rich auction houses with no proof of province are selling them, how does that happen??
It happens because no one with any power is bothered to force the likes of Christie's and Sotheby's to clean up their act when it comes to flogging stolen and looted artefacts.
Found at the bottom of a river. Nobody alive knows how they came to be lost there.
If you're planning on arming civilians from Bordeaux then you'd need arms to do so wouldn't you? It would make sense for them to be all together if they are surplus weapons for arming volunteers.
Civilians or volunteers wouldn't fight with swords. A sword was a useless weapon in their hands. They would use different, more efficient, less expensive and easier to use weapons. Only trained and highly skilled professional warriors used swords in battle to an extent.
The second blade of the 4 looks like a "kriegsmesser".
Can’t analysis of the metal and rust products, and possibly stuff caught in any of the hilts that have metal wire wound hilts?
A 45mins documentary that solved nothing about the swords really 😅🤣
It literally says mystery swords which means they are a mystery😂 Still a great documentary about a bunch of swords that was found that I have never heard of before and I’m a history nerd 80 is fascinating high number of medieval anything much less swords.
Imagine telling the people of Bordeaux now that they used to be on the English side
The music needs to be toned down. It's distracting and on occasion almost muffles what's been said.
Let’s say you have rusted medieval sword you want to sell, you come up with a story that it was found at the site of a famous battle
It sells very well…oh wait I have another one
Since no real evidence of them being found others rusted swords suddenly come from there now too
Absolutely, they were drip feeding the market to prevent a drop in price that could potentially occur if a find of 80 was publicly released
Honest question: Isn't it bad to touch such old metal with kind of wet and oily hands? I mean they probably know what they are doing but I would have expected gloves.
Decade...10 years 😲
Does anybody know if these swords show in the video were used in battle?
Watch and listen to the video which answers your question.
@@johnwarren1445 ok ok
Kinda remind me of Spanish stuff except the pommels.
Should fix that title….
"Only a few people were truly in the know!" And allowed to flog the stuff in posh auction houses. Keeping the lucky finds prices high! What was needed was a archeological investigation at the find sight. Then we would know. But as usual. Money usurps all. If anyone really cared (beyond financial value) metallurgical investigation could pinpoint the location where the ore was mined.
They needed alot of steel to defeat the ogres and giants that came in the blue fog.
Not Castile but Castillon, very different places!!!
What are the chances that these are a collection of forgeries, brought onto the market in a manner where it would be impossible to verify provenance? Most of the initial verification of these swords came from people profiting from them being real.
Edit: What needs to be done for a start is to do X-Ray Diffraction studies on as many of the blades as possible to see if they are too similar in metal content. If there is to much consistency in the alloy/trace metals along with the iron it would be a strong indicator that they are fake.
Such a pity that greed triumphed over social responsibility. The site should've been investigated by archeologists decades ago, the find should've been passed to a university after the naval investigation while the site was still pristine. Who knows what vital historical discoveries might have been made?
I have heard these were of superior steel compared to others of the same period
The "quality" of sword blades then and for centuries after depended largely on the source of the iron ore from which the wrought blades were forged. Too much sulphur or too
much phosphorus meant that the blades were either "cold-short," meaning they were brittle as-made, or "hot-short." meaning they couldn't be hot-forged. This is why centres
for blade manufacturing grew-up around for example Solingen and Toledo. Sword blades were an item of international trade in Europe. There were no suitable
iron ore deposits in England and blades were imported. I have a collection of about 20 English swords, 1600-ish to 1680 and with one exception they all have German or
Spanish blades. The exception is a Civil war-era sword made at Hounslow circa 1645.
,"
The great Spanish Empire was created and supported with Toledan steel, the best in the world. 🇪🇸
Get Abby from NCIS to take a look, she'll figure it out 😅
Sad theres too many questions and no archeological work.
The 'midevil dead' 1:18? I'd rather see an upload on the 'Grateful Dead'....js
OR perhaps ; a forge forgeay 🤣
handling without gloves??!!
Lol treasure seekers will come looking, they was already there greedy one's
Whos property are swords like this? Are they government property or the finders property?
They were looted and sold off to the highest bidder because no one is bothered to stop it. France has an abysmal record with this, but in truth those swords could have come from absolutely anywhere and this fabled "provenance" may have been cooked up to drive up the sale price. And it still goes on to this day. Look at any recent Christie's or Sotheby's catalog and you'll see few if any of the antiquities has a secure provenance.
@@Libbathegreat I agree! This was a disaster. They should have been in a museum in France.
The sword is the cross
its interesting there are far fewer swords than there should be. 80 weapons among the dead left untouched
Hideously dramaticized. Annoying "music".
The way this is filmed is frustrating. Why show zoomed in sections of the weapons all the time rather than the full weapon? Its like Gordon Ramsays camermen got another job for a couple of weeks.
History lost to profit. Someone found them, but didnt tell archeologists, so they could sell them one at a time
A story of secrecy, auction houses unconcerned about provenance, and greed. Clearly pillaged from an archaeological site by people who knew what they were doing was wrong. Only the valuable items were taken and the things that would have answered all the questions discarded. Because of this they only are pretty trinkets with no real historical value. What a shame.
And it goes on to this day. Look at any recent catalogue from Christie's or Sotheby's and you'll see few if any of the antiquities have a secure provenance.
Does smell like forgeries..😊
makes me sick to see these private collectors owning and possesing these things that clearly belong to the entire world why do we put up with these thieves
Because no one in power is bothered to stop the auction houses from turning a profit on looted merchandise. Still goes on to this day. Look at any recent Sotheby's or Christie's and you'll see few if any of their antiquities on offer have a secure provenance.
Why? You trust some government beurocrat to care for them properly? I’d rather have them in the hands of someone who paid a bunch and greatly values the item. Communist.
They don’t belong to whole world
@@williamspitzschuh8167 i agree.
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