I am a type 5 and am not at all offended by what they had to say nor what others have had to say about the traits. What I enjoy most about the enneagram in general is that it doesn’t just focus on the positive traits of any type but specifically points out all levels - unhealthy to healthy - in all types in the books.
I'd say 5s are one of if not THE most minimalistic type. It is not money or materialistic things that the 5 holds on to, this includes hoarding. The 5 lives in their head what the heck does money or hoarding junk help them with. If anything hoarding junk will overwhelm and waste their resources that they actually care about like time and energy. Literally the only time I save or "hoard" something is if something may save me time in the future. I believe this applies to all fives. The perfect Indian wood or whatever of a 5 comes from their appreciation of beauty not from greed. Someone else wrote this. "For this subtype beauty is one of the indications of truth because the order which beauty represents is a comfirmation of the objective rightness of an idea"
I believe 5s can be very minimalist and even aware of aesthetics since we are sensitive to surroundings, so many 5s perhaps like 5w4 do not like clutter. Some do. I do hoard my time and energy.
Supposedly a strength of the Enneagram is that it can help the various types grow out of their natural state. I’m a Five, and I’ve listened to a number of Enneagram experts talk about the Five type, usually in mostly negative terms. I haven’t heard anything concrete about type development for the Five except for “move to Eight,” whatever that means. I think I’m bailing on the Enneagram and going back to the Myers-Briggs framework.
(I’m 5w6) most everything in my life is this way: I like to hoard [information/clothes/furniture/nic-nacs/memes/etc] then I will keep most of the [i/c/f/n-n/m/etc] in [my mind/closet/storage/boxes/folder/etc] once i feel I have enough of one type of a certain thing (i.e. information on one topic/clothes of one style/furniture of a similar aesthetic...) I will display that type of that certain thing. This is because I like to change up my life a lot or else I get bored, so when I do get board I can change out the one type of thing I displayed for another. Edit: then every once in a while if I’m having a mental break I might donate it or throw it away, because at my heart I am a minimalist... but if I feel insecure or worried I latch onto things, which is often.
This is a alcohol/drug referendum on the character traits that can lead to problems with addiction........so the focus is on the "negative" which can lead to addiction. It's not an indictment of type, but a focus of the type 5 traits which can lead to problems, and the difficulties this type has with recovery.
Just a correction to Leslie, there is no extraverted 5s as there is no such a thing as an introverted 7; no matter what the subtype is. The whole proposition of the 5’s view is built on withdrawing from and observing - introverting- the environment; the opposite is true for 7s
kelsie suxo me too but just because you are able to be outgoing in certain situations doesn’t mean your an extrovert. at the end of the day your going to feel content when you are alone, and you will have those little moments where you want to just sit and think about something alone. Where as an extrovert would go home and wish to be with other people.
Fellow 5s.... calm down and use your reason please. She's not saying we have no heart, she's dating we have no heart component dominant to us in our preference as it is a head type. Thus something similar can be said about 8s (body based) and how they have no head component result available in their preference. Remember that we all use all three centers but much like the instinctual motivations, they stack in order of preference and usability. My suggestion is to find your tritype archetype to gain a deeper insight. Mine for example is 5-3-9.
I wonder if the need to physically aid someone with a disablity, to be a helper like a 2, which may for a 5 mean moving into the body, is a move to 8 and so to integration? I believe so.
Hey folks, sorry to seem disrespectful to fives. Please check out our podcast the journey of integral recovery, and check out my co-podcaster, Douglas Prater. I think he is a wonderful example of a healthy five. Fives are often our greatest intellects, minds, and teachers. See Ken Wilber who has been such a huge influence on my work and life. Also note these videos were done sometime ago very informally and we were just chatting with a room full of friends. It was taped we thought it might be useful. Hopefully it has been and is inspiring debate discussion and self reflection. All the different points had their negative and very positive aspects. They are all faces of God. As far as the comment being dead from the neck down, that just points the direction of the work that many fives have to do to be more whole. Fives need to retain their amazing minds but also become more embodied and open their beautiful hearts. You will be happier! And even a greater gift to us all…
Enneagram is negative in essence lol but I'm getting use to it.I hope someday a 7 (the optimistic) changes that! Just use it to your own benefit,to change and improve yourself.
@@JohnDupuyintegralrecovery Your last line rings false, probably because of the word "beautiful," and that pretty much kills the attempt at conciliation. What's missing in this conversation is a sense of where 5s are coming from, what motivates them, or what blocks them. Tom Condon described a "stymieing of the will" as the root of 5s' containment (and suffering).
@@JohnDupuyintegralrecovery I don't ever want to see you write the word "beautiful" again! Oright, seriously, absolutely NO offence taken here!!! I'm the classic 5, who looks at EVERYTHING on TH-cam regarding any topic that interests me, and the Enneagram is no exception. Though I haven't heard it put as "dead from the neck down" I thought it was pretty spot on, and everything said was remarkably similar to all the other videos - which I've never noticed anyone get upset about. Just made me think of 4 as a decapitated body (ok, maybe this language is not so healthy). While I haven't heard you speak of other numbers, I'm trust you "pick on" everyone equally - possibly even yourself, who you don't seem to take too seriously. Even though it is basically just more of the same, I seek to hear things from a different perspective, stated in subtly different ways, as somehow the information sinks in better, and a real understanding develops. That said, I'd love to see an in-depth video about the stymieing of the will and exactly what is behind it. Sounds like my life story! Keep up the good work - and just remember that you can't please everyone!
Saying good things about an ego.... Do you go to a doctor and list everything that is going right? NO. Stay away from a group that strokes you much, unless you are sure you need that, your ego needs that.
Okay, at 1:58, we have this dehumanizing phrase: "dead from the neck down." At 5:19, we have another one: "head on a stick." At 5:45 and 6:15, we have insinuations that the Five "doesn't have a heart" and is "always in your head," with some weirded-out facial expressions from the speaker, not to mention sprinklings of overly loud laughter througout. That all says dehumanizing and bigoted to me.
I just found this woman from an email I got from Chemistry dating site. This woman is the head psychologist on chemcom dating website, a personality matching assessment dating service. I am guessing her "views" are a little more censored on this site I don't know for sure of course, because I didn't pay the $50 that was required on the site. No shit, it's her. You think I should give her money? What do you think........maybe she can help me find my "heart"........for $50.
This is so BIGOTED. This is HIGHLY judgmental and negative! There is an OBVIOUS negative bias against fives in this conversation. All you guys talk about is what's "wrong" with them and how they frustrate you, and how they need to change and be different, or so you think, until the last one second, when someone says, "Oh, but we need their brilliance." This pissed-off five would be much more charitable to *your types -- one of the benefits, I should say, of being "analytical."
Deborah Nickerson Enneagram is bigoted! This is the biggest flaw of this beautiful system.A pretty big one and that's why people will still thinking as "bullshit".
I am a type 5 and am not at all offended by what they had to say nor what others have had to say about the traits. What I enjoy most about the enneagram in general is that it doesn’t just focus on the positive traits of any type but specifically points out all levels - unhealthy to healthy - in all types in the books.
I'd say 5s are one of if not THE most minimalistic type. It is not money or materialistic things that the 5 holds on to, this includes hoarding. The 5 lives in their head what the heck does money or hoarding junk help them with. If anything hoarding junk will overwhelm and waste their resources that they actually care about like time and energy. Literally the only time I save or "hoard" something is if something may save me time in the future. I believe this applies to all fives.
The perfect Indian wood or whatever of a 5 comes from their appreciation of beauty not from greed. Someone else wrote this.
"For this subtype beauty is one of the indications of truth because the order which beauty represents is a comfirmation of the objective rightness of an idea"
I believe 5s can be very minimalist and even aware of aesthetics since we are sensitive to surroundings, so many 5s perhaps like 5w4 do not like clutter. Some do. I do hoard my time and energy.
Supposedly a strength of the Enneagram is that it can help the various types grow out of their natural state. I’m a Five, and I’ve listened to a number of Enneagram experts talk about the Five type, usually in mostly negative terms. I haven’t heard anything concrete about type development for the Five except for “move to Eight,” whatever that means. I think I’m bailing on the Enneagram and going back to the Myers-Briggs framework.
(I’m 5w6) most everything in my life is this way: I like to hoard [information/clothes/furniture/nic-nacs/memes/etc] then I will keep most of the [i/c/f/n-n/m/etc] in [my mind/closet/storage/boxes/folder/etc] once i feel I have enough of one type of a certain thing (i.e. information on one topic/clothes of one style/furniture of a similar aesthetic...) I will display that type of that certain thing. This is because I like to change up my life a lot or else I get bored, so when I do get board I can change out the one type of thing I displayed for another.
Edit: then every once in a while if I’m having a mental break I might donate it or throw it away, because at my heart I am a minimalist... but if I feel insecure or worried I latch onto things, which is often.
YES YES YES
This is a alcohol/drug referendum on the character traits that can lead to problems with addiction........so the focus is on the "negative" which can lead to addiction. It's not an indictment of type, but a focus of the type 5 traits which can lead to problems, and the difficulties this type has with recovery.
Just a correction to Leslie, there is no extraverted 5s as there is no such a thing as an introverted 7; no matter what the subtype is.
The whole proposition of the 5’s view is built on withdrawing from and observing - introverting- the environment; the opposite is true for 7s
I score almost equally for a 5 as I do a 7.....I am very 5 but when I am comfortable in a situation I can be very extroverted
kelsie suxo me too but just because you are able to be outgoing in certain situations doesn’t mean your an extrovert. at the end of the day your going to feel content when you are alone, and you will have those little moments where you want to just sit and think about something alone. Where as an extrovert would go home and wish to be with other people.
That guy off camera was dead on, the least satisfying is to know.
Fellow 5s.... calm down and use your reason please. She's not saying we have no heart, she's dating we have no heart component dominant to us in our preference as it is a head type. Thus something similar can be said about 8s (body based) and how they have no head component result available in their preference. Remember that we all use all three centers but much like the instinctual motivations, they stack in order of preference and usability. My suggestion is to find your tritype archetype to gain a deeper insight. Mine for example is 5-3-9.
593 for me!
Ashton Christopher I too am 5-3-9. But didn’t know you could have 3 types. How?
Thanks a lot for the video!
I wonder if the need to physically aid someone with a disablity, to be a helper like a 2, which may for a 5 mean moving into the body, is a move to 8 and so to integration? I believe so.
That makes sense to me. My 5 husband has a disabled mother that he has always needed to be helpful to and he has an easy time accessing his 8 point.
dead from the neck down? Wow. Remember there are likely many 5's reading this. It does not feel particularly respectful.
We can't expect normies to be respectful to us
Just factual information, to this 5
crypticdarl well said lol
Why can't anyone say a few good words about 5's. We aren't perfect but it's a little sickening hearing 85% bad things.
Hey folks, sorry to seem disrespectful to fives. Please check out our podcast the journey of integral recovery, and check out my co-podcaster, Douglas Prater. I think he is a wonderful example of a healthy five. Fives are often our greatest intellects, minds, and teachers. See Ken Wilber who has been such a huge influence on my work and life. Also note these videos were done sometime ago very informally and we were just chatting with a room full of friends. It was taped we thought it might be useful. Hopefully it has been and is inspiring debate discussion and self reflection. All the different points had their negative and very positive aspects. They are all faces of God. As far as the comment being dead from the neck down, that just points the direction of the work that many fives have to do to be more whole. Fives need to retain their amazing minds but also become more embodied and open their beautiful hearts. You will be happier! And even a greater gift to us all…
Enneagram is negative in essence lol but I'm getting use to it.I hope someday a 7 (the optimistic) changes that!
Just use it to your own benefit,to change and improve yourself.
@@JohnDupuyintegralrecovery Your last line rings false, probably because of the word "beautiful," and that pretty much kills the attempt at conciliation. What's missing in this conversation is a sense of where 5s are coming from, what motivates them, or what blocks them. Tom Condon described a "stymieing of the will" as the root of 5s' containment (and suffering).
@@JohnDupuyintegralrecovery I don't ever want to see you write the word "beautiful" again! Oright, seriously, absolutely NO offence taken here!!!
I'm the classic 5, who looks at EVERYTHING on TH-cam regarding any topic that interests me, and the Enneagram is no exception. Though I haven't heard it put as "dead from the neck down" I thought it was pretty spot on, and everything said was remarkably similar to all the other videos - which I've never noticed anyone get upset about. Just made me think of 4 as a decapitated body (ok, maybe this language is not so healthy). While I haven't heard you speak of other numbers, I'm trust you "pick on" everyone equally - possibly even yourself, who you don't seem to take too seriously.
Even though it is basically just more of the same, I seek to hear things from a different perspective, stated in subtly different ways, as somehow the information sinks in better, and a real understanding develops. That said, I'd love to see an in-depth video about the stymieing of the will and exactly what is behind it. Sounds like my life story!
Keep up the good work - and just remember that you can't please everyone!
Saying good things about an ego.... Do you go to a doctor and list everything that is going right? NO. Stay away from a group that strokes you much, unless you are sure you need that, your ego needs that.
5 here! good shit, mirin vid. liked!
Okay, at 1:58, we have this dehumanizing phrase: "dead from the neck down." At 5:19, we have another one: "head on a stick." At 5:45 and 6:15, we have insinuations that the Five "doesn't have a heart" and is "always in your head," with some weirded-out facial expressions from the speaker, not to mention sprinklings of overly loud laughter througout. That all says dehumanizing and bigoted to me.
I hear you Deborah............I'm a 5/intj so I don't give a shit what they think. Just rehab assholes.
I just found this woman from an email I got from Chemistry dating site. This woman is the head psychologist on chemcom dating website, a personality matching assessment dating service. I am guessing her "views" are a little more censored on this site I don't know for sure of course, because I didn't pay the $50 that was required on the site. No shit, it's her. You think I should give her money? What do you think........maybe she can help me find my "heart"........for $50.
This is so BIGOTED. This is HIGHLY judgmental and negative! There is an OBVIOUS negative bias against fives in this conversation. All you guys talk about is what's "wrong" with them and how they frustrate you, and how they need to change and be different, or so you think, until the last one second, when someone says, "Oh, but we need their brilliance." This pissed-off five would be much more charitable to *your types -- one of the benefits, I should say, of being "analytical."
Deborah Nickerson Enneagram is bigoted! This is the biggest flaw of this beautiful system.A pretty big one and that's why people will still thinking as "bullshit".
Deborah Nickerson wHiCh is why 5s are the best ones at communicating the enneagram. No need to be so triggered if you recognize the bias though :p