Ice V threads seem sketchy, but they are truck anchors if done well. Here's how to get good threads, and evaluate those you find. Bonus section on how strong V Threads really are!
we did a pull test a couple years ago with a scale. a V thread in good ice and 7 mm cord. pulled tested till failure. The cord broke at 17.some odd KN, the ice fractured a bit but it was the cord that failed not the ice.
This is a great video, and series in general. You cover some items that experienced climbers might say "well, duh." at (such as clipping the backup carabiner through the rope rather than the v thread cord) but I think these are the scenarios where an accident is most likely to happen regardless of experience. Good stuff
Are you not concerned about the friction of rope on rope when pulling it? Wouldn’t leave a rap ring? What are the thoughts on the litter left behind in the summer from all the rope pieces?
The friction on the cord isn't usually a big thing, but if I'm worried I'll leave a carabiner or rap ring. I'm up to about 90 percent "naked threads," but when there's any water at all in the thread or on the ice surface near the holes it's really easy for the rope to get stuck, so I will use cord there. I agree it's litter. I make up for littering by picking up huge quantities of tat on routes and at the base in the spring, I think I'm up a few thousand feet of cord.
It's nice to meet you. Willgard korea kim yongki. It's Kim Yong-ki from Korea who participated in the ice climbing World Cup in 2000. You still do ice climbing, Thank you korea Kim Yong-ki (김용기의클라이밍세상)
Hi will, I have your ice climbing tutorial book and it's awesome but it's way better seeing you in video, you made me laugh so much I'd love to go climbing with you. You're proper authentic and not stuck up like you see some people in the mountaineering world. I live in Wales so unfortunately we don't get the conditions you're climbing in the video or it's rare if we do so I have to travel up to Scotland to get any winter conditions, I have very little experience and it's my second winter season and this year I hope to get some winter classic routes under my belt. It would be amazing climbing with someone like you just being in your presence and absorbing as much info as possible.
Really great, clear, informative video that covers all the bases to help people understand how mistakes can happen and how to best avoid them. Thanks for sharing !
Could be, can't see the video right now, but if it's closer than about the length off the screw then it's possibly an issue. On the other hand V threads fail a little differently than ice screws, so could be OK that close... Hmmm... Thanks.
Great little video! Your "hooker" seems to be ridiculously efficient for getting a hold of the rope quick. Is that produced by some brand, or have you made it yourself?
I Will thanks for those videos. In this V thread video I was very surprised you demonstrate a rappel with the rope directly on the 7mm cordelette, without a quick link or a binder. I was teache and I observed that ropes could slide at the top anchor will rappelling ; on line frost the other not, different line elasticity, etc or wath ever. This rope to rope friction could compromise the cordelette ; melting. Wath's your opinion on this. Thanks, Jacques F.
If the ropes are roughly the same diameter they don’t slide much. If they are different diameters then set the rap up to pull skinny, and it’s good to go. If the rope knot moves into the cord it blocks. But check my Insta for a post from spring about catching an incorrectly set up v thread rappel. It was set up to pull fat, and that could maybe Kull you as the rope slides due to much higher friction. No threads preferred, but in wet ice that’s a disaster. Does that make sense?
Thanks Will for your answer. I went to your Instagram post. Woah this guy was lucky you were there. For me, rope on rope with a risk of sliding is a no go. Once I observe two Beal Iceland 8.1mm sliding 2 meters in the top anchor quicklink. Tell me why, nobody's no, probably one rope was more wet or frozen and the elasticity built up differently and suddenly it's spring up through your rap device and it's slide on this V thread cordelette, burning its as you witness. A quicklink between the cordelette and the rope is my best life insurance. Thanks again for your involvement.
Hey Will, at 9:20 you say "this is why you don't use cord when tying off boulders and things", indicating that it can be cut easily. I've slung horns with 7mm and I can appreciate sharp rock edges are a hazard, but what did you have in mind as an alternative for retreating. Different materials, such as tubular webbing? Leave a backup nut behind?
Thanks for the video, Will. Would you comment on using an equivocation knot and a sling, so you can leave nothing behind? I have used it a few times and it seems to work well, and you can retrieve your rope, even if the sling freezes in place.
Or maybe not: th-cam.com/video/nHTIdQPBJzg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8QGHgYGaYq10Z5om Usually I’ll take my Grivel Candela. Fits in a screw, so clean on the harness. Can use it to clean out stuck ice form screws. Hooks cord and cuts it, but no blade sticking out.
I just have 2 considerations: 1. Never put your mounth directly on the ice. Use the ice Screw to blow in to the holes 2. The angle must be less than 60 degrees. So i never use a 30 cm sling. At least a 60cm sling. Great tutoríal anyway.
Not always, but sometimes your lips can stick to the ice or get cut by the sharp frosts or ice. Talking about the angle I mean the anchor's angle formed by the sling must be less than 60 degrees, to have a correct distribution of the weight in each ice point of contact. Cheers man@@willgadd2187
Will - What is the threader tool you are using in the video to pull the material through the V? Can you recommend a good tool that is sold commercially? Thanks!
we did a pull test a couple years ago with a scale. a V thread in good ice and 7 mm cord. pulled tested till failure. The cord broke at 17.some odd KN, the ice fractured a bit but it was the cord that failed not the ice.
This is a great video, and series in general. You cover some items that experienced climbers might say "well, duh." at (such as clipping the backup carabiner through the rope rather than the v thread cord) but I think these are the scenarios where an accident is most likely to happen regardless of experience. Good stuff
You're right, and I've seen it done "wrong" a lot, often by me...
One of the few benefits of being the fat climber: I get to rap with the backup.
Ha ha true!
Are you not concerned about the friction of rope on rope when pulling it? Wouldn’t leave a rap ring? What are the thoughts on the litter left behind in the summer from all the rope pieces?
The friction on the cord isn't usually a big thing, but if I'm worried I'll leave a carabiner or rap ring. I'm up to about 90 percent "naked threads," but when there's any water at all in the thread or on the ice surface near the holes it's really easy for the rope to get stuck, so I will use cord there. I agree it's litter. I make up for littering by picking up huge quantities of tat on routes and at the base in the spring, I think I'm up a few thousand feet of cord.
Best entertainment and educational stuff around, keep it coming!
It's nice to meet you. Willgard korea kim yongki. It's Kim Yong-ki from Korea who participated in the ice climbing World Cup in 2000. You still do ice climbing, Thank you korea Kim Yong-ki (김용기의클라이밍세상)
Nice to hear from you, I hope life is good, thanks for the note!
Hi will, I have your ice climbing tutorial book and it's awesome but it's way better seeing you in video, you made me laugh so much I'd love to go climbing with you. You're proper authentic and not stuck up like you see some people in the mountaineering world.
I live in Wales so unfortunately we don't get the conditions you're climbing in the video or it's rare if we do so I have to travel up to Scotland to get any winter conditions, I have very little experience and it's my second winter season and this year I hope to get some winter classic routes under my belt. It would be amazing climbing with someone like you just being in your presence and absorbing as much info as possible.
Good luck and come play in Canada some time!
Thank you Will! As a new ice climber up in Michigan, these videos are a great intro to supplement hands on learning.
Truck!
Does Will Gadd have a preferred knife for his ice climbing setup?
Really great, clear, informative video that covers all the bases to help people understand how mistakes can happen and how to best avoid them. Thanks for sharing !
Videos are absolutly great.
But at this video it looks like a backup screw is too close to a V thread
Could be, can't see the video right now, but if it's closer than about the length off the screw then it's possibly an issue. On the other hand V threads fail a little differently than ice screws, so could be OK that close... Hmmm... Thanks.
The bonus footage is epic!
I take my thread tool and place it in the first hole and look down the other ice screw to line it up. Never missed!
Great little video! Your "hooker" seems to be ridiculously efficient for getting a hold of the rope quick. Is that produced by some brand, or have you made it yourself?
It's made by Glacier Plastics and sold in Canada whack of places. No relationship to them, I just like it.
I Will thanks for those videos. In this V thread video I was very surprised you demonstrate a rappel with the rope directly on the 7mm cordelette, without a quick link or a binder. I was teache and I observed that ropes could slide at the top anchor
will rappelling ; on line frost the other not, different line elasticity, etc or wath ever. This rope to rope friction could compromise the cordelette ; melting. Wath's your opinion on this. Thanks, Jacques F.
If the ropes are roughly the same diameter they don’t slide much. If they are different diameters then set the rap up to pull skinny, and it’s good to go. If the rope knot moves into the cord it blocks. But check my Insta for a post from spring about catching an incorrectly set up v thread rappel. It was set up to pull fat, and that could maybe Kull you as the rope slides due to much higher friction. No threads preferred, but in wet ice that’s a disaster. Does that make sense?
Thanks Will for your answer. I went to your Instagram post. Woah this guy was lucky you were there. For me, rope on rope with a risk of sliding is a no go. Once I observe two Beal Iceland 8.1mm sliding 2 meters in the top anchor quicklink. Tell me why, nobody's no, probably one rope was more wet or frozen and the elasticity built up differently and suddenly it's spring up through your rap device and it's slide on this V thread cordelette, burning its as you witness. A quicklink between the cordelette and the rope is my best life insurance. Thanks again for your involvement.
Hey Will, at 9:20 you say "this is why you don't use cord when tying off boulders and things", indicating that it can be cut easily.
I've slung horns with 7mm and I can appreciate sharp rock edges are a hazard, but what did you have in mind as an alternative for retreating. Different materials, such as tubular webbing? Leave a backup nut behind?
All that sounds good! Cord does cut under load quite easily, so all your solutions are good, or double the cord up so it's redundant I think?
Thanks for the video, Will. Would you comment on using an equivocation knot and a sling, so you can leave nothing behind? I have used it a few times and it seems to work well, and you can retrieve your rope, even if the sling freezes in place.
Thank you for taking time to make these vids .well done.
Petzl Spatha
sharp don't leave home with out one,
sharp knife save a life,,,, just saying
Excellent video
Or maybe not:
th-cam.com/video/nHTIdQPBJzg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8QGHgYGaYq10Z5om
Usually I’ll take my Grivel Candela. Fits in a screw, so clean on the harness. Can use it to clean out stuck ice form screws. Hooks cord and cuts it, but no blade sticking out.
Awesome video ... te la rifas Will!
I just have 2 considerations:
1. Never put your mounth directly on the ice. Use the ice Screw to blow in to the holes
2. The angle must be less than 60 degrees. So i never use a 30 cm sling. At least a 60cm sling.
Great tutoríal anyway.
Why not put your moth on the ice? Better than on a metal screw I think? Not sure on sling lengths, but if it doesn't reach then it doesn't :).
Not always, but sometimes your lips can stick to the ice or get cut by the sharp frosts or ice. Talking about the angle I mean the anchor's angle formed by the sling must be less than 60 degrees, to have a correct distribution of the weight in each ice point of contact. Cheers man@@willgadd2187
Thanks for telling me I am worth the 7 mm 😂, great series
Yes you are!
😂😂😂😂 use the big kid first 😂😂😂😂
True :).
Thanks will.
You forgot to mention, that the last person brings the screw & quickdraw with them, when abseiling
He did mention it. 12:22
@@tonny4410 heh - that was so slick and smooth, didn't even notice it!
Will - What is the threader tool you are using in the video to pull the material through the V? Can you recommend a good tool that is sold commercially? Thanks!
Look for the Candela from Grivel, relly nice tool...
I've used the V thread tool from Firn Line Designs. Super simple and lightweight
Available at MEC, but they're all decent honesty.
looks like a j snare